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[Scared2Lose]

I took a break from this thread because my soon to be ex-wife had, after going to inpatient treatment and asking me for a divorce a week before checking out, finally left the house. I thought it best that I work on myself and focus on moving on. I have, in the past, focused all my attention on boards like this rather than looking inward.

However, after two months of living away from me, she asked if she could come back home. I told her this was her home as well, and while I think if she is the one that wants the divorce, she's the one that needs to leave, she could stay as long as she needed. So that when she left she could do so with purpose and intent.

She replied that she wanted to see if we had a chance. After two weeks of sleeping in our bed together, she moved her sleeping arrangements into another room. However, we did start being intimate again (first time in like 7 months or something), and I thought when conflict arose it was clear that we handled things differently. Then she started testing me. First it was, I'm confused about my sexuality and I'm not really sure I'm meant to be with a man romantically. I want to try dating other women. The prospect of this hasn't ever really bothered me, and part of me thought, well if she's a lesbian then this will never work, better to find that out now. That lasted a week before she told me of another dude that she pursued while we were apart after he randomly texted her by accident. This is someone she doesn't know and hasn't met in person, and she's asking me if she could go on a date with him. I said you can do whatever you want, but I wouldn't be happy if she had sex with him. I said it's one thing to question your sexuality, it's another thing entirely to ask me to wait around while she interviews my replacement.

She did not like that, and split me black. We continued to be intimate for a week, but her mood had clearly shifted. Two days after that she said that she wanted to proceed with the divorce. All during that time I was buying stuff to fix the house, things we both agreed needed to be done, letting her know of my plans, and she agreed with all of it. Some of it clearly having to do with both of us together not just one of us staying in the house. She let me do all of it without word or sign that this was on her mind.

I should point out that she's relying heavily on the people that she went to treatment with. Since getting out, the majority of her social time is spent interacting with them. She also wouldn't agree to hold off on any romantic interests she may or may not have until we figure out how to get out of this whole situation. So I'm fairly sure she's got someone waiting in the wings to take my place. Someone who, most likely, she met in treatment.

After about a 12 hour period where I was admittedly kind of nutso (nothing more than asking her for space, and pointing out why this newest revelation came as such a shock). I told her that how she's going about decisions didn't seem in line with her professed desire to be better.

We are cordial now. Still physically affectionate (no more than hugs), as we've both agreed that we want to make this as easy on the other person as possible. However, she did confide in me that she just can't let go of all the things I did wrong before she went into the hospital. That I stress her out, and that she can't seem to get past it. She is going to tell her parents this weekend, along with the help of her psychiatrist. I also have an appointment to talk to her shrink this Saturday. And then talk to her and her shrink together a week from tomorrow.

I am very concerned that my wife is no longer participating in DBT classes. She had a six-week course in treatment, and did intensive outpatient for a month and a half, but is no longer doing either. She is seeing her DBT therapist twice a week, but I fear she's not doing the requisite exercises. She left her workbook here when she was gone for the two months.

Beyond that, I'm concerned that she's clearly not making the best choices. All she's decided on is that she wants to get away from me. She doesn't hate me, would say she loves me if pressed, but doesn't feel like she can continue with me and is unable to see how her disorder is still contributing to our stress. She sets me up for failure then gets mad at me when I predictably fail.

We're at the point now where I've told her that while I don't agree with her decision, I respect her need to make it.

So I guess I have a few questions:

1) Is there a surefire way to tell when a BPD person has written you off entirely? I know that's a general statement. And maybe there's no clear answer, but she still talks about the future with me in it (making plans for the dogs and whatnot), and still shares with me all her cute little thoughts and musings.

2) Should I be worried about her apparent lack of participation and practice in the skills training?

3) What, if anything, can I do to make sure there's someone looking after her when she's successful cutting me out of her life? She's alienated or dislikes pretty much anyone who could be considered close enough to her to pass any kind of meaningful judgement.

4) What can I do effectively to give us the best chance of reconciling?

I love this woman still. Not in a desperate way either. I'd be very happy to let her walk out the door so that I can put my life back together. I wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't so sure that her disorder lay at the heart of her decision. Specifically that while she strips away the layers, her role in the failures of our relationship become more apparent, and she needs to run from the shame of it rather than face it down.

Any and all advice is encouraged and appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

4) What can I do effectively to give us the best chance of reconciling?
 

Be a good example to her of an emotionally healthy adult that consistently uses good relationship skills.

I see plenty of recent examples we can work through if you are up to working on this area of your life. 

Thoughts?


Best,

FF

[Scared2Lose]

Yes, please.

At this point I'm willing to take all the advice I can get, even if it's to move on.

I'm just so frazzled from these past few years, I'm not sure which way is up anymore. It doesn't help that I lost my job six months ago and we're in the middle of a global pandemic. Which, for me, makes her decision at this point and time all the more irrational.

[Scared2Lose]

I should also mention that her stated need to follow through with the divorce is that she was never into the marriage to begin with. Is that a thing in BPD? That they follow through with life-altering decisions like getting married, then when they look back realize that it wasn't the right decision?

[formflier]

First of all, realize that you are unlikely to understand her from a "rational" point of view.

If you try to sort it out with "feelings = facts", the perhaps it makes sense..perhaps.

Best,

FF

[Scared2Lose]

I'm getting to that point with all the work that I'm doing/what I'm learning.

Feelings=rational, I mean.

I'm very much looking forward to any and all advice about how I can turn this situation around.

[Scared2Lose]

Wanted to move this to the top of the board because I'm to talk to her shrink on Saturday and am looking for do's and don't points.

[formflier]

OK, when talking to other professionals about her, make observations and try to stay away from "judgments".

Let the professionals diagnose.

Switching gears:

For the feelings equals facts thing.

It's entirely likely that the way your pwBPD processes events is dramatically different than how you do.

For example

For me, if I'm unhappy and then something happens that I "should be happy about", the "facts" usually drive me to a point of happiness.

For my wife (lets use her as an "average" pwBPD) if she is unhappy and something happens that she should be happy about, she is very likely to be angry that the world doesn't agree with her feelings of unhappy...and be ever "madder" (more angry).
 
Said another way, the facts "invalidate" her feelings and make her feelings worse.

What I now know is that if FFw is angry, I need to realize that "facts" don't matter...FFw's emotions (even ones I don't understand or agree with) are all that matters.  So...if I can "validate" her emotions or even just "be with her" (vice against her), her "anger" will likely lessen and the entire incident will be over much sooner.

To put this in context, early on my wife would accuse me of having a harem of women that I did all kinds of crazy sexual things with.  "proving" myself to be a faithful husband actually mader her more upset.  Here is the thing...the "issue" was not the issue.  It really didn't matter to her that I was out there banging women left and right (I wasn't).  What mattered is she "felt" like I was...

Once I was able to separate the two things... and deal with her feelings, things slowly improved.

Best,

FF

[maxsterling]

To put this in context, early on my wife would accuse me of having a harem of women that I did all kinds of crazy sexual things with.  "proving" myself to be a faithful husband actually mader her more upset.  Here is the thing...the "issue" was not the issue.  It really didn't matter to her that I was out there banging women left and right (I wasn't).  What mattered is she "felt" like I was...

FF

One of the best things I have read on here.  It explains a lot of issues I have with my W.  For example, this morning W made a passive aggressive comment about how I never wipe the table after the kids eat breakfast.  This infuriates me, because 90% of the time I do.  This morning, I had to attend to another need as soon as the kids were done eating.  I have to be careful how I respond, because even though I wipe the table 90% of the time, my wife does not FEEL that I do - she "feels" that she is constantly taking care of the kids and constantly cleaning the house.  To suggest otherwise or that I am working just as hard as her triggers a huge rage.  But if I am perfect in cleaning the house, that too makes her mad, because that also disagrees with how she feels.  The issue then is that she has already assigned to herself that she is a "housewife" and society says her role is cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, etc.  She socially resists the "housewife" role, so if I am doing the cleaning and do a good job, that brings up feelings that she is not doing a good job, that she is unneeded, or that I am better at it than her.  I think my mom struggled with the same thing, and would jump all over my dad (or myself and siblings) if he ever cooked or cleaned.  She would find ways of expressing how he was inadequate in those tasks.

Scared2lose - It sounds like you are having the same issues as me.  You are thinking too logically/rational about things.  To your W, it's all feelings.

[maxsterling]

1) Is there a surefire way to tell when a BPD person has written you off entirely? I know that's a general statement. And maybe there's no clear answer, but she still talks about the future with me in it (making plans for the dogs and whatnot), and still shares with me all her cute little thoughts and musings.

From the stories I read on here, I would say "no".  I think you are better off approaching this as to what your boundary is regarding this.  In other words, what period of time would she have to be gone before you would not take her back?  What actions would she have to take for you to not take her back?  My W still talks about and sometimes talks with people from her distant past that she "wrote off" at one time.  Sometimes that person contacts her.  Sometimes W feels lonely and reaches out.  If W and I split up, I would not be surprised if she wound up with an ex in some way.

2) Should I be worried about her apparent lack of participation and practice in the skills training?

You can worry, but that won't help/change anything.  From my experience with my W, this is typical.  She gives a few months devotion to something and then that's it and finds an excuse to quit.  There is nothing I can do about that.  You have to make decisions for yourself with the understanding that her participation in getting help for herself is no guarantee. 

3) What, if anything, can I do to make sure there's someone looking after her when she's successful cutting me out of her life? She's alienated or dislikes pretty much anyone who could be considered close enough to her to pass any kind of meaningful judgement.

Not much.  Do you worry that she won't be okay?  Does she have other friends/family?  I worry the same about my wife, because she makes grim statements about her life if we were to separate.  I freely admit that such statements have kept us together.  But my guilt/worry feeling here does agree with a fact.  Over my Ws life, the same patterns have happened over and over and over.  No matter how far down she still manages to find a way to meet basic needs, find someone to meet those needs, or find her way into a hospital.  Chances are if we split up, the same would happen.  Your W has shown she can take care of herself at least on a basic level.  If she cuts you out, it is not your obligation to make sure she is okay.

4) What can I do effectively to give us the best chance of reconciling?

I love this woman still. Not in a desperate way either. I'd be very happy to let her walk out the door so that I can put my life back together. I wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't so sure that her disorder lay at the heart of her decision. Specifically that while she strips away the layers, her role in the failures of our relationship become more apparent, and she needs to run from the shame of it rather than face it down.

Her disorder does lay at the heart of her decision.  If you look at her pattern, you will see your place amongst it.  As mentioned by FF, about all you can do is live your life the best you can.  Whether your R/S gets better or worse probably has little to do with you.  Remember, you are dealing with feelings rather than facts or logic.  It's easy for people in our position to go down a thought process of "If I could just do this" or "If she would just do that" or "If I could help her understand..."   That may work with emotionally healthy people, but probably not with her. 

[Scared2Lose]

So I'm super confused. Yesterday was good for us. She was on the brink of a meltdown about her work (tutoring kids online). I held her, comforted her, and she thanked me. I even sent a text as we went to go sleep in separate beds that I was proud of her for handling it all so well. She thanked me for my help and whatnot. This morning great too. Jokes, casual conversation, good times.

Full disclosure, she comes from money. Our house, which she did nothing to put together, didn't help pack or move into, is hers as it was bought and paid for by her trust. I've said this from the very beginning. Since this is something she wants, she's going to have to change her life to get it. I don't give a damn who owns the house, I shouldn't have to move because she has weird second thoughts about the marriage. I'm not saying our marriage is perfect, but short of severe abuse, I don't feel anyone has the right to kick me out of my home.

She's agreed multiple times in the past that I should get the house that it's my house, and at the very least I should be able to stay here until I can figure out what my next move is. This house is a rounding error for her family, while it would provide me security for the rest of my life. We, because of her wealth, live in a place that I couldn't afford on my own. I am currently underemployed, so moving states is not really on the menu. She is basically asking me to move out and in with my family, but that is something she is unwilling to do cause she hates her parents (not without reason, they're weird people).

Anyway, today, after she talked with her therapist, she comes to me and starts talking about how we need to keep our interactions to just logistics for the next three weeks. We'd three days ago decided that we were both dedicated to making it as easy for each other as possible, now she says she thinks I should leave. She immediately flooded, then accused me of bullying her into decisions she didn't want. I can be adamant about my opinions, but I'm very OK with people holding opinions that aren't my own. Now she says, after saying multiple times that I should, that I shouldn't get the house. That I've always made her angry, and that I've bullied her our entire relationship. She says I vacillate in what I want. While at times I've insisted that she get out of my face and house and then regretted that and gone back to being supportive, those times mostly come from her throwing these curveballs at me.

I stated how I felt. Told her that I still loved and cared about her. That I would be open to any solution where I don't have to sacrifice my mental, emotional, or physical well-being, that would make it as easy for her as possible. She shut down and just started calling me names. It's clear to me there's conflict, but I don't know how to break through to her. Is expecting her to consider my feelings at all a non-starter? I'm just so heartbroken, and at 41 not sure I'm willing or able to start over. I'm very worried about my future and I don't see a clear path ahead that doesn't leave me as a 50 year-old degenerate in a job that I hate with nothing that I want or feel I deserve. I'm in a really bad place and she's not able or willing to make any of this easy for me.

[Scared2Lose]

So I really need help.

She now wants to kick me out of my home because she decided unilaterally that she doesn't want to live with me anymore. She's gone from saying she wants to do everything in her power to make sure that I'm OK, to asking me to leave and telling me she doesn't feel emotionally safe around me.

FF, I'd really like to take you up on your offer of going through some stuff to see where I can change behavior and whatnot.

Thanks,

[formflier]

So, toss out a couple things...couple issues and let's kick them around.

I bet we figure some stuff out.

Oh...and tomorrow, she'll probably be wanting to buy you a house...and a vacation home.

Don't "buy into" the argument of the day.  Don't add "fuel" to a fire.  They burn out much quicker that way.

Best,

FF

[Scared2Lose]

OK, well, for starters. She said to me today that she's felt bullied throughout our relationship, and that I make her feel unsafe. While I'll admit that I've been less than perfect. I've yelled, prevented her from walking away from arguments, been rather unsympathetic to what's going on inside her head, I've never been abusive. And most of what she's referenced happened more than 7 months ago, from before she went into treatment, and before we knew what's going on.

She said that she could demand I move into our tenant apartment (our house has a rental unit attached that we Air BnB for extra income). And I've maintained all along that she wants this divorce, surprised me with it, and is an adult. So therefore it's unfair of her to turn my life upside down because she needs a change. So when she demanded I move, I told her she'd have to force me. The alternative is that she could move into the tenant's apartment, but she says she has more stuff than me. That it's her house. And that she's doing me a favor by not kicking me out whole cloth. Then in the next breath, she admits that I've done little to deserve kicking me out. And that it's not really me but the fact she's in a relationship that's a problem and that any relationship she was in, that got this close, would end this way.

As I said before, she came home about a month ago from two months elsewhere. At that time, I'd come to grips that our relationship may be over, but that I loved this woman so I'd make it as easy for her as possible without sacrificing my own mental, physical, or emotional health. I texted very infrequent words of encouragement, asked her how her day was going, we talked once for two hours and she tearfully admitted, I'm the first that comes to mind when she's in need. I took this as a compliment. Told her it was totally understandable to feel that way. That, for the past 5 years, we've spent so much of our lives together, and that I'm here for her whenever.

When she asked to come home, she said she thought that we had a very small chance of making it work. Then, within a week of returning home, she slipped into a casual conversation about how she had had sex (not cheating in her mind cause we're divorcing) with a non-binary virgin while she was in White Plains. Then she started talking about opening up the marriage. She was worried and confused about her sexuality (this is a mirror-image of the story she tells about her last serious boyfriend). I told her I had no problem with her dating women because if that's who she needs to be with, there is nothing wrong with that. And I can't blame her for being confused in that way. Then a week after that (we're intimate this whole time) she says what about men? I say that's not great. It's one thing to be confused about your sexuality, it's entirely another to go after relationships with dudes when ours is on the brink. Two weeks after that she says wants to move forward aggressively with the divorce.

I'm pretty sure she's caught feelings for this dude. A dude I should say she's never met in person, and who she struck up a conversation with because he texted her once by accident, then she pursued. She also says it's not romantic between either of them, then admits that he asked if she'd consider dating him exclusively if we didn't work out.

At the end of stuff conversations about logistics, I usually back off because I can see it's going nowhere. I ask if it's OK to hug her to reassure her that though we disagree, I'm not angry with her. We still hug, tight. I tell her over and over that I don't hate her. That I'm hurt and that's OK. She feels this is what she needs, and she doesn't need to beat herself up for feeling that way. She's clearly in a lot of pain. And when she does tell me what I think to be her true feelings. Shares with me actionable complaints (which she is so so so bad about doing) she says it in a way that implies part of her really wants me to address them, to change, to help. Meaning, I've been through a lot of breakups on both ends, I know what it feels like when a person is done. This doesn't feel that way.

However, she also feels completely justified booting me out into the street during a pandemic when she's the one who has feelings for and had sex with someone else. It's very very confusing.

She said she wants to move, however, she's not willing to move for at least six months while COVID rages on. She doesn't feel it's safe. I've not asked, but am now wondering, why it would be any safer for me to leave? This is not a person who really thinks I'm as evil. And yet her treatment of me (kicking me out of my home, turning my life upside down, kicking me while I'm down) indicates she's in an immense amount of pain. A pain that seems more confused than certain. But we can't work on what happens, because she cannot help but hate me when we have to talk about what's fair and what to do next.

So here's my plan. I'm going to move into the tenant's apartment and tell her that I'm doing it to make this all easier for her. Cause I am.

I'm focused on making our interactions positive.

I've written to her parents about my concerns about her behaviors and decisions. I'm toying with the idea of asking them if we can work it out between us rather than involving her. Since they're the ones with all the power. However, I worry that is not letting my wife feel the consequences of her behaviors, which I've read everywhere is an important thing to do. I'm just afraid that since her moods are changing so rapidly, she's going to re-neg, at which point I'll be screwed.

I want to know what I can do to support her without sacrificing too much. Where is the line between support and caretaking?

Also, how much should I worry about her relying on someone else for her emotional validation? I'm almost positive that there is someone waiting in the wings. If we're going to be in the same house for at least the next six months, I'm not super keen on the idea of watching her invite over my replacement. And I'll know if she's got people over, cause her unit is right above mine. It's kind of a boundary. However, if mentioning that is a problem, I want to know if I should just suck it up.

Finally, how can I talk to her about what I feel is fair. I've already given so much ground, I'm worried that in the end, I'll be so stressed out I'll have to leave for my sanity. How do I advocate for myself with her so that we can work together to make sure I'm not completely screwed when all this is over? Anytime I press at all she says to me this is my house, I'm being nice to you by letting you stay here, push me and I'll kick you out. I'll find a way to physically force you out. So now I'm moving into the tenant apartment despite that when she came home, she said she would. I just don't want to give any more ground.

[formflier]

How on earth does acceding to her demands which you believe is unfair in anyway help things?  

Please don't do that.  Please DO NOT give away any of your leverage and power.

Will she appreciate it?

Will it help her be "fair"?

Listen...slow down, she draws lines in the sand...you draw lines in the sand (and then you turn around and run as fast as you can from the line you drew...that's a horrible thing for you to do to you and to the relationship.

What if your words started to mean something...?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

I just don't want to give any more ground.

Don't give anymore ground.  Just don't.

She obviously doesn't respect what you say and it appears that you don't either. 

Don't move, take time to reorient yourself.  We can help.

Best,

FF

[Scared2Lose]

Don't give anymore ground.  Just don't.

I don't know how to hold my ground without her crashing and hating me. We just talked about it today, and I told her what I thought was fair, and she said that I bullied her into every agreement we had previously achieved.

She obviously doesn't respect what you say and it appears that you don't either. 

A little harsh, but fair I suppose.

Don't move, take time to reorient yourself.  We can help.

Are you saying I shouldn't move anywhere? Not even the tenant apartment? I'm not sure I know what you mean reorient. Do you mean like move when I get my footing and all that. Or, reorient my approach to her?

[formflier]

If you goal is that she not "hate you"...there is NOTHING you can do.

Perhaps she will want you to pay her for the rest of your life.

You say no..that's not fair.

She claims you "bullied" her.

You stroke the check.

That's what you are training her to expect...isn't it?

Best,

FF

PS...no...don't move.

Your original logic is sound.  She wants a change...she can change.

Really...think about it.  I'm unhappy, want to have sex with non-binary people AND I expect all those around me to move and change...while my living situation is not affected in the least.  (reasonable?)

[Scared2Lose]

Not in the least.

But I already told her I would. And she said she wanted to help me setup my kitchen. Which I told her wasn't necessary. She's sleeping in a different room on a different floor. Do I just say that I've changed my mind? I could definitely postpone it until we have a chance to talk with her shrink on the line. We have that scheduled for Wednesday.

She also says that her friends and her therapist say that I'm the one being unfair. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it, other than that she's slandering me or being really biased in her descriptions of what's happening.

[Scared2Lose]

She claims you "bullied" her.

You stroke the check.

That's what you are training her to expect...isn't it?

I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you explain a little bit?

Also, thank you, this is very helpful.

[formflier]

But I already told her I would.

  Do I just say that I've changed my mind?

  So when she demanded I move, I told her she'd have to force me. 

You didn't have a problem changing it before...why not change it again...and again...and perhaps again?

Has she not changed her mind...many times?

Just relax...take time off from all these claims, demands, counter claims, mind changing...

Best,

FF

[formflier]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you explain a little bit?

Also, thank you, this is very helpful.

  She said to me today that she's felt bullied throughout our relationship, and that I make her feel unsafe. 

OK...the pattern that comes through in your posts.

She wants you to do x, you say you will never do x...she will have to force you.  Then she claims you were a bully and here therapist, friend, neighbor and random people on the street all agree with her.  You crumble and give her EXACTLY what she wants and you say you would NEVER do without being forced.

So...what have you trained her to do?  Do your words matter?

Hey man...please take a breather from these conversations...you are digging a deep pit that it's going to be hard to get out of.

Best,

FF

[Scared2Lose]

Done and done.

We have a conversation with her shrink tomorrow to work out how to move forward. I think I'll only address/talk about any of this stuff with her when it's in that kind of setting. There's no way around it for the time being.

[Scared2Lose]

OK here's an update.

We talked together with her shrink today, and it was the most illuminating conversation that we've had to date. Apparently, my wife has felt unsafe our entire relationship. That her needs and feelings haven't been addressed or validated, and that I've emotionally abused her. I took this pretty hard because why wouldn't I? I've not been perfect, but what I've done is far from abuse.

However, she also admitted, albeit briefly and half-heartedly, that she abused me as well. I feel that she throws that word around rather cavalierly, as I don't see anything she's done as abuse, but I need to work within the framework of her feelings.

I've decided that I should move into the tenant's apartment to ease some of her fears. If she feels unsafe around me, I feel like that's the first thing I need to address. I've asked her to make a concerted effort to continue to be completely forthcoming with me about her feelings and fears, and in the moments she feels unsafe, to express that and give me the opportunity to alter my behavior rather than bottling up her fears.

She is still adamant that we go through with the divorce, but I still get the sense that there's some inner conflict in regards to that situation. For the first time she admitted that she's seen progress on my part, but says that there's too much history to make up what's already happened. I asked her to consider that at least until she went into treatment, we weren't working with all the available information. And that as much as she needs time to come to grips with her new understanding, I need time to make the appropriate adjustments to how I perceive her attacks.

I've asked her shrink to make recommendations for a therapist for me who is more BPD savvy. My therapist has been helpful, but admittedly has very little experience dealing with these situations.

My thinking now is to just move forward with the divorce and be as kind as supportive as possible without sacrificing too much of what I need or want. I'm hoping that doing so will settle the waters some and hopefully start to turn the tide. She's agreed to another meeting with her shrink because it was really productive.

My questions are as follows:

1) Where am I thinking about this the wrong way?
2) Considering her stated feelings on the matter, is there anyway that I can turn this around?
3) I'm thinking my only play here is to focus on myself and begin to move on, is that going to work against my desire/hope that we can resolve this conflict sometime in the near future?

Thank you all for your help, I look forward to your response.

[maxsterling]

I agree 100% on #3.  My feeling is that is all you have control over.  Whether she wants a divorce, or how any therapy or treatment go for you is beyond your control. 

Being accused of abuse is rough.  I've been there.  Occasionally my W can admit she is abusive.  Usually it is, "I am abusive, I should kill myself".  Like you, I have done things that arent perfect, but I am not guilty of the things I am accused of.

Frankly, it sounds like you need space from all this right now.  In my situation, I certainly wish I had a guest house for either me or W to move into temporarily.  Perhaps stepping out of the fire for a little while will help give you some calm and clarity.

[formflier]

So...I want to make sure that I have this right.

Your wife and her psych agree that she has "felt" unsafe for the entire marriage, that she "felt" like you abused her...that this has NOT been communicated to you until now...and the best way forward for your wife's mental health is for OTHER people (you) to change so that she FEELS safe.


Do I have this right?

I find the timing of this rather interesting..don't you?

Best,

FF

[Scared2Lose]

To start. I'm not sure what to think anymore. A lot of this is coming out of left field for me. I know that my wife has suffered from panic attacks at times during our fights. And she dissociates the instant any conflict arises. To an onlooker it looks as if she's falling asleep.  In the past, when I didn't know what dissociation was, I took it to mean she didn't care.

Your wife and her psych agree that she has "felt" unsafe for the entire marriage, that she "felt" like you abused her...that this has NOT been communicated to you until now...and the best way forward for your wife's mental health is for OTHER people (you) to change so that she FEELS safe.

I don't know that her psych agrees. There was a lot of talk about different perceptions of abuse. However, whenever I ask why it's so important that I move to the tenant's apartment, she's said that she needs privacy, not safety. Today was the first time that came up. Never once has she said that she's afraid I'm going to hurt her. Until today that is. And she has no evidence on which to base that claim.

She mentioned times when I'd opened doors she locked, but that was literally years ago. I did it once, and I did it because I was afraid she would hurt herself. After all, she hinted at it. Soon as I brought that up she changed the subject.

But at this point, I don't know if staying in the main part of the house is the hill I want to die on. I'm just not sure what to do about it.

I mean, she was bringing up arguments we had in the first year of our relationship. Like a stupid one we had about gluten allergies because one of her friends was gluten-free and I made an offhand comment that I don't know how many people really apply.

I find the timing of this rather interesting..don't you?

I'm not sure what you mean about the timing. Are you saying that she's looking back on the marriage and applying to it whatever sticks? Or whatever will suit her purpose? What can I do about that?

[formflier]

If she wants privacy, she can get privacy without you having to move..right?

The interesting timing...

She wanted you out of the house...you hesitated...all of a sudden you are invited to a session with her and "poof", now you are convinced that you should move.

Listen, if you go talk to YOUR divorce lawyer and you moving places you at not the slightest legal/bargaining disadvantage...then I would be ok with you moving.

My take..

You are being played...

Best,

FF

[Scared2Lose]

Checking with the lawyer. I don't think it will matter as far as my rights. But it is a good point. I just want to make sure I'm not hurting my chances for reconciliation.

Though my desire for that wanes with each one of these conversations.

[formflier]

Checking with the lawyer. I don't think it will matter as far as my rights. But it is a good point. I just want to make sure I'm not hurting my chances for reconciliation.

Though my desire for that wanes with each one of these conversations.

Rights is one thing, negotiating position is perhaps another. 

How long have you had your divorce lawyer retained?  What kind of advice have you gotten so far?

Best,

FF