Frustrated with the system, switching lawyers, but still pessimistic

[Jeronimo]

Hi all,

I'll give a brief summary of the multitude of issues in my case, current issues and hope for some advice.

I am a 42 year old Father or 2 kids, ages 7, and 3.  I am an emergency room physician and my ex is a nurse who worked part-time during our marriage.  She is 35 years old.  I live in the marital home and she now lives an hour away after returning from her dad's home with the kids, which was 5 hours away.  She filed a TPO with false allegations of abuse and moved with our children last March. I had no contact with our kids for 11 weeks, aside from daily video calls up until May, when I was granted temporary visitation of every other weekend. It's been an uphill battle since then.


We have been through two court ordered mediation sessions in which we agreed to joint legal and physical custody, but she backed out of the agreement and unenrolled our 7 year old son from the school I had enrolled him in at to a school in her new town.  I did not agree with his decision but I relented because she changed from not allowing him to be part of the live-sessions at his former school to being able to participate in live-sessions at his new school.

We had a pre-trial conference on last week that was presided by a Judge, and I was denied 50/50 custody despite agreeing to all the financial support.  I am in the process of listing our marital home in order to be closer to the kids and increase my chances of joint custody.  She is however stonewalling this process by micromanaging the process.

I am seeing at therapist which is helping, and I even seeing a co-parenting therapist that was recommended by my son's therapist.  She has refused to participate in it, and told me to "go PLEASE READ yourself," even after I agreed to pay for the sessions.  There are many more of that type of denigration and insulting language that she has no problem using in email communication.  I forward them all to my lawyer, but it seems there is no consequence for her bad behavior.  Our 3 year old was reluctant to get in the car at the last pickup and cried, which broke my heart, but I was even more concerned about the smell of marijuana in the car.

It is obvious to me that she is using the only leverage she has, which is time with the kids, and is intent on exacting revenge my denying my 50/50.  It is disheartening to me that the system seems geared to punish dads and ignore bad behavior by moms, even to the detriment of the kids.

I intend on switching lawyers, and I interviewed with a firm today that focuses on dads' rights, but even after the consultation, I was left feeling like I'm fighting a losing battle.  The lawyer gave me the impression that the journals I've been keeping won't carry a lot of weight in court.  I am doing everything that I read about in books and other people's experiences on here, but it truly seems like I running in place in this marathon.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m very sorry about the situation you find yourself in. And yes, unfortunately it seems that father’s rights are not given a fair shake in the USA. It sounds like you’ve been documenting things well. Have you read Splitting?

It’s written by an attorney who is also a therapist, knowledgeable about personality disorders.

Hopefully some of our members who’ve been through this experience will join in your thread.

Best,  Cat

[Cat Familiar]

Splitting

[Jeronimo]

Thanks for your response, I've ready Splitting on a couple of times and even recommended it to my lawyer.  I would like feedback into how you guys introduced your concern of BPD to lawyer and other professionals involved, without looking like you were bashing your ex.

I am also curious as to how many people going through the system got psychological evaluations performed on their ex, and on what grounds it was granted, and how altered the case.

[kells76]

Hi Jeronimo;

Not sure if you've seen this before -- pages 1-2 of Dr. Craig Childress' article on "Ju-jitsu Parenting" address exactly that question (of how to introduce your concern to involved professionals):

https://drcachildress.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Ju-jitsu-Parenting-Fighting-Back-from-the-Down-Position-Childress-2013.pdf

Let us know if this helps, and/or if you're looking for more.

Cheers;

kells76

[ForeverDad]

Courts and the professionals involved with the court are reluctant to name disorders.  Instead they defer to documented incidents, etc.  We are wise to focus similarly.  My court declined to state whether either of us "suffers from any physical or mental disability".

I am doing everything that I read about in books and other people's experiences on here, but it truly seems like I running in place in this marathon.

Sadly, it's a marathon, not a sprint.  Of course you try your best to get the best (least bad) start in the temp order.  Focus on the important things.  I recall in one hearing I came prepared with 11 nicely printed issues to cover.  Time ran out after the first 3 or 4 items. 

Another problem?  I had grouped them by topic, not priority.  Lesson learned:  Get the crucial items handled first.  Court can't or won't deal with a long list.

Another lesson was that court typically is inclined to make tweaks to an order in hopes small changes will be sufficient.  In our intractable cases that means repeated court appearances.  I spent over two years as alternate weekend dad in a separation temp order and a divorce temp order.  Though a mediation attempt and a settlement conference failed, I walked out with equal time with a last minute settlement in the final decree.  To settle and not begin the full-day trial, I had one firm condition:  I would be the Primary Parent for school purposes.  My lawyer joined her lawyer in insisting that meant nothing — and they were so wrong — but that's another story.  Let's just say it didn't take long before her school got fed up with her antics and gave me one day to enroll our kindergarten son in my school district.  They had an opportunity to dump her they wouldn't have had if she had remained as Primary Parent.

The lawyer gave me the impression that the journals I've been keeping won't carry a lot of weight in court.

To continue my history, I moved from nearly equal status up to full custody a few years later.  But the Guardian ad Litem (GAL) declined to recommend assigning me majority time.

Another couple years and predictably I went back to court for majority time again, this time a 2 day trial.  She had been playing games again, mostly with exchanges.  I had chosen 10 incidents, we used 9 in court.  I recall one was during the summer, the exchange to start the Independence Day holiday time.  They were all played twice, once for me to testify they were accurate and on which dates, once for her to listen and respond, "That's my voice but I don't recall it."  The decision later stated, "In the tapes Mother is often yelling so loudly that it is difficult to endure listening to her."  Court did grant me majority time.  However, it was limited to the school year.  I had issues year round but the testimony from school about their issues with Mother evidently had more weight with the court than my testimony?

I had no contact with our kids for 11 weeks, aside from daily video calls up until May, when I was granted temporary visitation of every other weekend. It's been an uphill battle since then.

Sadly, courts aren't fazed by so-called "temporary situations".  Let me shift back to my early court encounters.  After my separation (mutual protection) temp order ended it took 3 months to get my divorce court temp order.  Those months I didn't talk to him (except once a few minutes on his birthday) or see him at all.  When the magistrate confirmed that with her that she had blocked contact he merely stated, "I'll fix that" and set a nearly identical alternate-weekend-dad divorce temp order.  No lectures or consequences for her.  No make-up time for me.

We have been through two court ordered mediation sessions in which we agreed to joint legal and physical custody, but she backed out of the agreement...

Most mediations fail for us too, the disordered parent is typically too entitled and too controlling early in the divorce process.

I am in the process of listing our marital home in order to be closer to the kids and increase my chances of joint custody.  She is however stonewalling this process by micromanaging the process.

If she continues obstructing you, you may have to seek the court's Authority to get her heels-dragging cooperation.  One piece of advice is what another member LivednLearned encourages, to avoid your Ex getting "many bites from the apple" any such order not only has to specify what needs to be done but also the consequences if it is not done or timely done.

I recall that I was blocked from any access to my son's therapist and records.  Court twice asked her to allow my access and she agreed.  The second time it specifically asked her to sign any necessary paperwork since she had temp custody at the time.  Nothing changed, I was still told by form letter that I was likely to be a danger to my son or others, even though I had no restrictions and a typical dad alternate weekends.  Finally, third time I filed for a specific order for the agency's compliance and got it.  My lawyer was chuckling when telling me he got calls from other lawyers asking how he got that accomplished.  Credit goes to my Ex's noncompliance.

[GaGrl]

Regarding the evaluations...

Had a GAL (Guardian ad Litem) been assigned to represent your children's interests? If so, a parenting evaluation, which can include a psychological evaluation, can be worked through the GAL.

Any psychological evaluation needs to include an objective instrument such as the MMPI 2, which is designed to detect any attempts to "fool the test." I

And you need to participate in evaluations as completely as your STBX.

[Jeronimo]

Kells76, thank you for the recommendation, I'll check it out.

ForeverDad, your response is really appreciated.  Very detailed and informative.
It has reignited the fire in me.  I was really down yesterday, and even had thoughts about just throwing in the towel, but I realize that these if not even my fight, I'm fighting on behalf of my kids, and that makes it worth it.  It's inspiring to hear you went from every other weekend to eventual full custody.

GaGrl, no GAL yet, I intend to pursue that next, but first I'm trying to position and improve my chances my moving closer to her before in-person school is to begin on March 15.

Thanks for all the responses, it's made a big difference in my mood and motivation.

[livednlearned]

If it's any consolation, even when I was gaining headway it still felt like losing 

I'm a mom and didn't seem to benefit from gender bias in family court, although I suspect it's because my ex was an attorney and engaged in legal abuse of a slightly different type. You have to keep the goal in sight and focus on one step at a time.

Couple of questions for you.

Did the new lawyer give you a strategy with tactics to help you understand how you were going to get to 50/50?

Did the judge say why you were denied 50/50?

I agree that the journals might not carry as much weight as, say, a custody evaluation report (if it's done correctly). It doesn't mean there's no hope, it means the lawyer has to help find another way to shine light on what's happening.

Like a psych eval.
Or a deposition.
Or third-party professional observation.

And about your son being reluctant at the exchange, it's heart-breaking. Gutting, actually.

How did he do after he settled in with you?

[MeandThee29]

FWIW, in my area they do 50/50 on the first round without blinking an eye. You really, really have to have something MAJOR for anything different.

I would find out what the problem is before I'd get another attorney. It may just be the the judge is perpetually biased against men no matter what you do. They rubber-stamp and that's that. 

From what I know and have heard, very few attorneys are going to respond to a diagnosis unless they've really dug into themselves. What you can share is behaviors that are going to affect the legal proceedings. I provided that to my attorney, and he said it was invaluable. Based on what I told him, he was able to make suggestions to my ex's attorney on how to work with him. We're not sure how much of that worked, but it did settle out of court with a negotiated settlement.

As an example, there are things in my agreement that are actually unenforceable and some that have work-arounds. Both attorneys knew about these, and we just left them to make my ex happy so we could fight about what really mattered. At signing, my attorney made sure I knew exactly what I had to watch and what I didn't page-by-page as I signed. Just bizarre, but it worked.

[Jeronimo]

Did the new lawyer give you a strategy with tactics to help you understand how you were going to get to 50/50?

Did the judge say why you were denied 50/50?
 
And about your son being reluctant at the exchange, it's heart-breaking. Gutting, actually.

How did he do after he settled in with you?

Neither my lawyer or the judge gave me a good reason why I could not get 50/50, even after I move closer.  My current lawyer told me he was overwhelmed with another case and did not follow through with a suggestion I made to him to send her lawyer an email imploring my ex to meet for another mediation session, and/or meet with the co-parenting therapist that up until now, I've been attending alone.  The recommendation to see a co-parenting therapist was made my my son's therapist. Needless to say, I've had 3 other consultations, but they did none of them gave me a strong chance of 50/50.  The most candid advice I got was to take as much as I am given now, and work my way into getting more time in the future.  He even said that the judge that mediated our settlement was considered a "pro-guy" judge.   

In response to my son being reluctant at exchanges, it is actually usually my 4 year old daughter that is reluctant to return to her mom when it is time to leave my home. 

[Jeronimo]

[quote 

I would find out what the problem is before I'd get another attorney. It may just be the the judge is perpetually biased against men no matter what you do. They rubber-stamp and that's that. 
 
[/quote]

Part of my need to change lawyers is mostly based on his lack of responsiveness. I was willing to ride him out through the settlement, but I am reluctant to stick with him through a court battle. 

[MeandThee29]

Part of my need to change lawyers is mostly based on his lack of responsiveness. I was willing to ride him out through the settlement, but I am reluctant to stick with him through a court battle. 

Yes, that's important. I initially had the managing partner of a small firm. He was frequently in court and did divorce malpractice and appeals. And he always, always let me know when he'd be out for a trial and how long. He set up his associate as backup so I always I had someone available. Then when he retired, my case went with that associate to a new firm. And he remains very responsive. There were some hitches at the beginning of the pandemic when they were transitioning to working from home, but since then I've never, ever had to wait more than 24 hours M-F, even when he's in a trial. Sometimes he'll tell me that he needs to research something, but gives a date when he'll respond.

[livednlearned]

The most candid advice I got was to take as much as I am given now, and work my way into getting more time in the future.  He even said that the judge that mediated our settlement was considered a "pro-guy" judge.

   

I can understand why this feels discouraging.

It's also kind of how it works for a lot of us (marathon, not a sprint).

The initial order for high-conflict cases is sort of like starting the clock. Many contested cases start off with high-than-average conflict, then there's our cases, which tend to stay high conflict.

The judge is considered the supreme witness in a case. After the initial hearing, they sincerely hope you will go away.

What usually happens (for us) is that they kind of witness what happens next, based on what we and our third-party professionals tell them. What tends to work in our cases is shining light on the problems (through documentation, third-party professionals, depositions, etc.) and showing up as problem solvers proposing reasonable solutions.

Most people want to solve problems, but for someone with BPD, a solution can feel like losing, and so they fight against the solution, which is irrational. And this irrationality is pretty visible in the light that the court shines on it. Often it looks like stonewalling, obstruction, non-compliance. Sometimes this is obvious and other times we have to demonstrate a pattern of behavior.

Defying reasonable solutions goes against what the judge wants, which is to eliminate repeat customers and to see parents acting like grown adults instead of running to a judge every time there's a problem.

In high-conflict cases, the judge becomes the ultimate supreme third-party professional who witnesses where the real problems are coming from.

It's grueling. It's also kind of like having a medical condition that you learn to manage over time.

The lawyer who told you that over time you can chip away is correct, and many of us experience those small wins.

In the meantime, your other battle is for the hearts and souls of your children. It's essential that you learn how BPD traits show up as pathogenic parenting, or parental alienation. Read Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak, Don't Alienate the Kids by Bill Eddy, the Power of Validation (for parenting), and anything by Dr. Craig Childress. For us, it takes more than being consistent, stable, loving, better. We have to learn how BPD traits can undermine the development of emotional resiliency. Many of the communication skills are not intuitive and must be learned.

In response to my son being reluctant at exchanges, it is actually usually my 4 year old daughter that is reluctant to return to her mom when it is time to leave my home. 

Oops, my apologies for mis-reading.

How do you communicate with her when she's reluctant? Maybe we can offer some examples of how we've handled these transitions so that our kids become more resilient.

[Jeronimo]

Hey livednlearned,

Thanks for your response.

I am going to be switching to the lawyer who I spoke with and gave me the realistic "marathon" expectation. 

I'm a doctor, and the comparison to having a insidious and protracted medical condition rings true.  Some patients know something is wrong with them and are misdiagnosed until they meet a doctor who really listens to them and cares enough to get the right diagnosis. 

I am currently reading (listening on audible) to divorce poison after reading your response to another post.  Unfortunately Don't Alienate the Kids is not yet on audible, but I'll be getting it in print. 

As far as the kids, they've expressed their desire to spend more time with me, so when they have to leave they struggle a bit.  I reassure them that I'll be seeing them soon, which is reassuring to them since they spent 11 weeks without seeing me at the beginning of the separation.  I also have a daily video call with them everyday, which my ex has to obstruct in the past, but has been better with letting them contact me lately.  I think my daughter's reaction when she left last time has helped with that. 

Here is an excerpt of an email communication we had today when I responded to an email filled with blame and titled "who are you?" I communicated my desire to share the kids 50/50, and answered her question with "I am the father of your children, and I intend to continue the bond we share."  I suggested we return to the mediator to work out scheduling since I will be moving closer.  I also recommended she join me in the co-parenting therapy sessions that I offered to pay for.

 I reject your proposal for 50/50 physical custody

- I will never again agree to work with (mediator) as it was entirely unproductive and expensive.

- With respect to (our son's therapist), she is not God and her advice is helpful at times and less so at other times. I will not agree to participate in co-parenting therapy so please stop asking.

- You are not the father of my children. I would have never created new humans with the likes of who you truly are. Those miraculous beings were conceived in a bed of lies that you still lay in. We now all have to accept and cope with the lingering effects of your ongoing evilness.

[livednlearned]

You are not the father of my children. I would have never created new humans with the likes of who you truly are. Those miraculous beings were conceived in a bed of lies that you still lay in. We now all have to accept and cope with the lingering effects of your ongoing evilness.

So wow.

Sometimes I forget how similar our exes with BPD can be.  

Mine could have written that email, including the title.

That kind of vitriol is going to eventually catch up because normal-range parents don't write things like that.

Also, she is going to undermine any third-party professional involved because they will threaten her. It's a huge win that your kids are seeing someone. How do you participate with that counselor? Do you take them or is it usually your ex who takes them?

There's some kind of blind spot about cause-effect with BPD. Your ex demonstrates that by saying you're the aggressor, then in effect she behaves as one.

Someone who is genuinely afraid doesn't write stuff like that.

Did she initiate that email or was she responding to something you sent her?

Does she send these emails out of the blue often?

[alleyesonme]

Hey livednlearned,

Thanks for your response.

I am going to be switching to the lawyer who I spoke with and gave me the realistic "marathon" expectation. 

I'm a doctor, and the comparison to having a insidious and protracted medical condition rings true.  Some patients know something is wrong with them and are misdiagnosed until they meet a doctor who really listens to them and cares enough to get the right diagnosis. 

I am currently reading (listening on audible) to divorce poison after reading your response to another post.  Unfortunately Don't Alienate the Kids is not yet on audible, but I'll be getting it in print. 

As far as the kids, they've expressed their desire to spend more time with me, so when they have to leave they struggle a bit.  I reassure them that I'll be seeing them soon, which is reassuring to them since they spent 11 weeks without seeing me at the beginning of the separation.  I also have a daily video call with them everyday, which my ex has to obstruct in the past, but has been better with letting them contact me lately.  I think my daughter's reaction when she left last time has helped with that. 

Here is an excerpt of an email communication we had today when I responded to an email filled with blame and titled "who are you?" I communicated my desire to share the kids 50/50, and answered her question with "I am the father of your children, and I intend to continue the bond we share."  I suggested we return to the mediator to work out scheduling since I will be moving closer.  I also recommended she join me in the co-parenting therapy sessions that I offered to pay for.

 I reject your proposal for 50/50 physical custody

- I will never again agree to work with (mediator) as it was entirely unproductive and expensive.

- With respect to (our son's therapist), she is not God and her advice is helpful at times and less so at other times. I will not agree to participate in co-parenting therapy so please stop asking.

- You are not the father of my children. I would have never created new humans with the likes of who you truly are. Those miraculous beings were conceived in a bed of lies that you still lay in. We now all have to accept and cope with the lingering effects of your ongoing evilness.

In addition to what others have said, I'd strongly suggest holding onto these emails and showing them to your attorney and the GAL when one gets appointed. Keep acting as the normal and reasonable parent and let her gradually reveal her true colors. Wow.

[Jeronimo]

So wow.

Sometimes I forget how similar our exes with BPD can be.  

Mine could have written that email, including the title.

That kind of vitriol is going to eventually catch up because normal-range parents don't write things like that.

Also, she is going to undermine any third-party professional involved because they will threaten her. It's a huge win that your kids are seeing someone. How do you participate with that counselor? Do you take them or is it usually your ex who takes them?

There's some kind of blind spot about cause-effect with BPD. Your ex demonstrates that by saying you're the aggressor, then in effect she behaves as one.

Someone who is genuinely afraid doesn't write stuff like that.

Did she initiate that email or was she responding to something you sent her?

Does she send these emails out of the blue often?

Wow was my reaction too.  I touch base with my son's therapist about every 6 weeks.  She has raised some concerns that their video sessions are not really private because my ex tends to be close by.

The email interactions vary between spontaneous vitriol and a response to her emails.  I do a good job avoiding the JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain).

I retained a new lawyer today and hope they come to the same observations you have after seeing all of the evidence.

The aggressor playing the victim is so on point.

My daughter asked for a band-aid today for a scratch on her left buttock.  When I asked her what happened, she said "mommy scratched me by accident when she was yelling at me."   I'm thinking about taking a picture tomorrow for documentation. 

[ForeverDad]

I may be overly cautious but I'd suggest you let your daughter's doctor, a colleague or nurse take the picture, as an uninvolved professional.  Sometimes us dads can innocently trigger allegations.

In my case... when we were talking about children, I wanted a girl like her, she wanted a boy like me.  Well, it was a boy.  We had been married for a decade before trying to have a child, I thought she would be less stressed and happier seeing our child discover life.  It did the reverse, made everything vastly more complicated.  She started reliving her childhood through him.  She started looking at me suspiciously as he was nearing her age when her stepfather came into her family.  Once we separated she started making ever more extreme allegations, yes, even insinuating that scary "my son told me..." allegation.  So in time I was thankful we did have a son and not a daughter, if you catch my meaning.

[Jeronimo]

Thanks ForeverDad, it's the reason why I hadn't taken a picture yet.  As a physician, it certainly rise to the level of a doctor visit, so I'll just document it my journal and go on to explain why I was cautious about taking a picture.