Looking for some camaraderie and advice

[matthew37]

Hi, i'm new to this forum, but after a few hours reading posts and tips, I wish I'd have found it years ago. I could really use some help, some understanding, and some encouragement.

Quick backgrounder: married 16yrs, kids are 10/12/14, and I think my wife is either suffering from BPD, or something similar - and has been for maybe 8-10yrs -  and it's pushed me to the brink of walking out the door.

The past 3 years in particular have been plagued with "episodes" where something triggers her, after which we'll have 1-4 days of rage (including breaking things), near-constant verbal attacks, etc. I used to think of it as "grown up temper tantrums" until I started reading about BPD recently. During an episode she's basically out of control, though usually only at "violent/rage" level for small amounts of time. I'll spare the details, as from what I've read here it seems quite similar to others' experiences (throwing things, tons of intense verbal attacks, trying to break things of mine, aggressively described delusional versions of reality, etc)

Like many others here, I now "walk on eggshells". There's not a single topic I can raise without being worried of triggering her. I've disengaged from most of our activities together, since it is just too stressful (basically no conversation, months since any form of intimacy, no shared activities, etc). Even just watching a TV show I find uncomfortable much of the time, because I feel like I'm sitting next to a ticking time bomb. It is my basic belief that *I* am her trigger - we can barely have simple logistical conversations without something getting under her skin.

If we hadn't had kids, I'd be long gone. But we do, and they're at an age that makes decision making more difficult. Further complicating things is we live in a fairly high cost of living area, and I'm the sole financial provider (she's been a stay-at-home-mom - which I fully believe contributed to her emotional descent). So splitting up will not just force massive change, but likely eat significantly into the kids' college savings.

Further, she doesn't have many close friends, and her family doesn't exactly provide what I'd consider an emotionally supportive environment. So me leaving her will not only devastate her, but she'll have little help from others. I know I shouldn't feel guilty about that, but it weighs on me.

Lastly, she is unaware of the extent of her issues, and clearly has no idea of the *degree* of harm she's causing me, and increasingly, the kids. She did start taking a depression medication last Summer, which helped for some amount of time (I think), but not having much impact that I can see anymore.

So I'm struggling (a LOT), and me posting this here is highly weird for me to do, but I can't fight this alone anymore and am admitting I need some help, and thank you in advance to every kind soul who is taking the time to read this.

What I'm wrestling with (sort of a sample of whats in my head, not looking for "specific answers" to these):
* Should I just end things, or maybe a trial separation?
* If I go, should I push for custody?
* Where should we think about living if we split?
* What is best for my children?
* Is there *ANY* hope for recovery?
* If she DID finally get help/etc, do I still have enough left in the tank to keep it going?
* If I say I'm going to leave, is she going to go fully ballistic? Do i need to truly worry about self-harm?

...and probably a dozen or so ongoing internal bouts of turmoil.

Anyhow, I appreciate hearing from anyone in any way. I'm so sad about it all and I've spent far too long NOT dealing with it. So it's at least nice to be able to post here.

Thanks, have a great day everyone!

[livednlearned]

These are tough relationships. It's good that you're reaching out for support. I don't know how anyone can get through these tough choices alone, and there are plenty of people here who have been in your shoes, standing at the same crossroads you're at.

It is my basic belief that *I* am her trigger - we can barely have simple logistical conversations without something getting under her skin

Intimate relationships are definitely triggering to people with BPD, or those who have BPD traits.

she is unaware of the extent of her issues, and clearly has no idea of the *degree* of harm she's causing me, and increasingly, the kids.

When she blows up, how do you respond? How do the kids cope?

What's the relationship like between them and you? What are they like with their mom?

* Should I just end things, or maybe a trial separation?
* If I go, should I push for custody?
* Where should we think about living if we split?
* What is best for my children?
* Is there *ANY* hope for recovery?
* If she DID finally get help/etc, do I still have enough left in the tank to keep it going?
* If I say I'm going to leave, is she going to go fully ballistic? Do i need to truly worry about self-harm?

Sometimes the best place to start is with skills to lessen the conflict while you work through what's best for your family.

If you feel comfortable, can you describe an example of what happens when she goes on a rage? Maybe we can walk with you and make some suggestions that will help you and the kids.

Whether you stay or go, you'll be parenting with her and the skills may help make things less high conflict.

[matthew37]

When she blows up, how do you respond? How do the kids cope?

What's the relationship like between them and you? What are they like with their mom?

When she gets into blow-up mode, I do everything I can to avoid her. I ask for breaks / pauses, go out for a walk, or just find a quiet place in the house. She'll sometimes reach a point where she follows me around to say angry/hurtful things. I do whatever I can to keep them small - sometimes I straight up ask her to stop, or to take a breath, or to wait and tell me whatever she wants to say in a few minutes. Sometimes this all works, sometimes it doesn't - I have yet to identify a single tactic that helps. I once triggered her by saying the literal words she'd asked me to say.

Re kids - they tend to hide in their rooms. Sometimes they're unable to. Sometimes it'd been on a drive without anyone being able to leave/shut it down. For the past few months I've taken to trying to solace them while she's ranting (without badmouthing her - which can be quite a challenge). After the most recent outburst I've now told them if it happens again all of them should go downstairs and put on music and close the door).

If you feel comfortable, can you describe an example of what happens when she goes on a rage? Maybe we can walk with you and make some suggestions that will help you and the kids.

Whether you stay or go, you'll be parenting with her and the skills may help make things less high conflict.

Her episodes tend to be something like this
* Some trigger event (could literally be as simple as just talking to me about virtually any topic, or as much as an actual disagreement about something) and I can almost see a change comes over her
* within hours there'll be the first "proclamation" - she'll assert something, loudly, that is related to whatever we were talking about. that said, we could've been talking about "helping kids more with homework" and the blowup comes out like "you dont care about what i do around here" - so there's no specific (logical) correlation
* within a day there'll be a bigger & louder statement or series of statements made
* this may or may not then escalate into her getting violent. usually that starts with her going to break something of mine, then trying to hit me, then throwing something(s), then it ends. she's fully out of control at this stage, and has broken a lot of stuff.
* for the next 48 hours there'll be more ranting, anger, yelling, and conflicts. she'll do anything she can to try to get a rise out of me (which used to work, now it rarely does)
* one final day of calmness, but with tension in the air

then I wait 2-4w and it starts again...

[schwing]

Hi matthew37 and

It is my basic belief that *I* am her trigger - we can barely have simple logistical conversations without something getting under her skin.

I don't know if it helps knowing this but in many ways you are correct.  You (or rather your close interpersonal relationship with your BPD loved one) *are* the trigger.  It has nothing to do with any of the specific she may (or may not) accuse you of, those are all the "acceptable" (to her) reasons why you upset her.

My understanding is that for pwBPD, feelings of intimacy and closeness seem to be a reliable trigger for their fears of abandonment.  So the things that nonBPD people try to do in order to strengthen the relationship, end up being a trigger for the emotional flare-ups.  This is why if you keep you distance, things seem to cool down.

* Should I just end things, or maybe a trial separation?

This is something you need to figure out for yourself.  Some people are able to handle great amounts of pain than others. Just make sure that through it all, you are getting support (professional or otherwise) for yourself.  Because living with this illness is a massive drain in all respects.

* What is best for my children?

Some of the kids will figure out that there's something wrong with their BPD parent.  Some of the kids will be thoroughly manipulated by the BPD parent's distortions and delusions.  In any case, this will affect their lives in profound ways - and it's not always a clear negative.

What would be best is for them to get whatever support for them they are open to receiving (this may change over time).  Having access to a stable, supportive parent would be a good thing, even though you might end up being the punching bag for some time (it is safer to be angry at the parent who can tolerate it than to be angry at the parent who cannot handle it).

* Is there *ANY* hope for recovery?

Only if the pwBPD is committed to working towards recovery for their own reasons and not because other family members "require" them to do so.

* If she DID finally get help/etc, do I still have enough left in the tank to keep it going?

You'd be a saint if you did.

* If I say I'm going to leave, is she going to go fully ballistic? Do i need to truly worry about self-harm?

That is very hard to say.  Because leaving them will be perceived as actual abandonment.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[ForeverDad]

As a group in general, I'd say the members here are Nice Guys and Nice Gals.  We're relatively normal people who find ourselves in dysfunctional, even unhealthy and unsafe, relationships.

Yet we found it difficult to disengage from the chaos and discord.  A common hope was that the latest rant and rage cycle would be the last.  Sadly, it never is.  And having children just vastly complicated our attempts to find a solution.

As nice people we bend over backwards to be super fair, yet that is the weak side we show to the person with BPD (pwBPD).  They then feel entitled or enabled to manipulate our good side so we don't leave their dysfunctional dance cycles of push/pull.

For this reason you would be wise to set aside your otherwise excellent sense of fairness.  This is a time to focus on what you need (to recover a sense of balance) and your children (to see the difference of a chaotic home versus a stable home).  Can you set yourself and your children as the priorities in your life?  Too much concern for the misbehaving spouse will sabotage your other needs and goals.  It would not be mean to do so, it would be resetting your priorities and "doing what you have to do".

A few decades ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action, as appropriate, will enable your lives or at least a part of your lives to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that may be — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

[alleyesonme]

Welcome to the forum, but very sorry to hear what you're going through. Lots of good tips here, and ForeverDad really hit the nail on the head with his post.

You have to put you and your kids first. If you believe your wife is truly committed to changing for the better, then maybe the marriage can be salvaged. Only you can decide that. But I wouldn't do or not do anything because you're worried about how it'll affect her.

One tip I'd pass along is that, if you get to a point where you're ready to give her an ultimatum to either immediately seek therapy or the marriage is over, I'd suggest filing for divorce first. At least in some states, and maybe in all states, there's a law that wherever the kids are living the day the divorce is filed, that parent starts out as the custodian when it comes to temporary orders. If you reveal too much of your hand before you file, she may take the kids away without you even knowing and then file for divorce. Once that happens, you'll be playing catch-up from the start. This exact scenario happened to me, and it's awful.

On the other hand, you could have her served with papers and somehow arrange to immediately communicate to her that you're willing to work on the marriage if she immediately seeks therapy. This protects you because the kids would have been living with both of you the day the divorce was filed, so you'll start the divorce process on even footing.

One way to do this would be to have the kids with you while you're running errands and she's home alone, and arrange for her to be served at that time. If you can get immediate notice of when she's been served, you could then send her a prepared text message conveying everything.

[lostinvt]

Welcome mathew37.

Thank you for sharing, and I'm really sorry to hear you're in such a situation.  There is a lot of really great advice and support her.  I'm relatively new myself, so unless something really hits home, I'll leave some of the more specific advice to others that really do an amazing job!

But I can certainly offer some camaraderie!  Your description of where you're at is extremely close to mine, with many if not all of the same concerns and questions.  Married 18 years, 15 yo daughter and only recently had my eyes opened to what is really going on. Only real difference is that there is little violence or yelling in my situation, but a lot of crying.  Otherwise the sentiments are the same.  My story is posted so feel free to search and maybe something will resonate with you, and you can maybe get something out of the support I have had.

I (as well as many others) are here to listen and support you.  I'll be watching this thread.

[matthew37]

Hi. I just wanted to thank everyone who wrote in here. I can't even describe the "long exhale" type of feeling I've had reading your supportive words and thoughts. Apologies for not replying to each one, but thank you Alleyesoneme, ForeverDad, Lostinvt, schwing and livenlearned - it was very kind of you to add your thoughts!

I'm so extremely sad, realizing what's our likely next step, especially since I really believe she's "sick" not "broken" (and I don't mean that in a judging way, whatsoever) - but I also know I have no ability to "fix" what's broken, and until she can take steps on her own to do so, there's little-to-no-hope. It's such a frustrating feeling watching this all happen - not to mention the continuous awakening of "OMG what have I been letting happen to me for SO long."

Sigh.

[Warriorprincess]

I'm so extremely sad, realizing what's our likely next step, especially since I really believe she's "sick" not "broken" (and I don't mean that in a judging way, whatsoever) - but I also know I have no ability to "fix" what's broken, and until she can take steps on her own to do so, there's little-to-no-hope. It's such a frustrating feeling watching this all happen - not to mention the continuous awakening of "OMG what have I been letting happen to me for SO long."

I’m right there with you, @matthew37. I’m so sad in so many ways. And I really believe she cannot help it. My therapist said it just like you the other day. She’s even met my WwBPD (we had one session together with her), and she said, “I believe in the love you have for each other. But things cannot and will not get better unless she wants help. She’s very sick.” It’s such a punch in the gut. And then the feeling of, how could I let this go on for SO LONG? For me it’s been 6.5 years and 2 stepchildren whom I love. You’re in the right place for support. These are good people.
Please remember that you matter in all this. Take breaks. Be good to yourself. We’re here for you.
-Warriorprincess

[matthew37]

thx @warriorprincess

Have had a couple of convo's recently about the violence/etc in the house. She can't seem to make any connection between her being violent and the impact it has. It's like a taboo topic now.

I think I inch closer to actually making a move every day.

I'm currently leaning towards suggesting we take a pause, but I can't imagine what will then happen... Living under this spectre is just killing me.

[Justdrive]

Kind of in the same boat, in terms of not having been on the board very long. I'm six months post-separation, officially divorced for two. The only thing of possible value I can ask is, if you've been going through this for 8-10 years, are you and your kids currently seeing any kind of therapist or mental health counseling? What you've described does not sound emotionally healthy, and I would be worried about long-term consequences for the kids especially. A therapist could also be a good sounding board and help you to see things from a different perspective. That's something that can be really hard to come by when you're living in a pressure cooker situation like you are now.

Good luck, whichever route you wind up going. And remember, too...if you pick a path and don't like where it's going, there's no one saying you have to stay on it.

[Warriorprincess]

Have had a couple of convo's recently about the violence/etc in the house. She can't seem to make any connection between her being violent and the impact it has. It's like a taboo topic now.

Hi @matthew37. I’m right there with you again. Whenever I talk about her yelling or violence, she cannot or will not acknowledge the impact that has on me or my step kids. She even goes so far as to say it’s normal.

Today I left. She could sense something was brewing this week, and this morning she demanded an answer about what my plan is. I said I needed space, and she said, “No, you don’t. That’s the last thing you need right now...Don’t quit before the breakthrough. Let me help you, blah blah blah.” I told her she was dictating the narrative, and she said, “I’m telling the truth. You just don’t like the truth.” After years of this, I finally was able to think in the moment, “Who is she to tell me what I need?” She left for the office and under the kids’ noses (which were in computers and iPads), I packed up the car and left. She’s already wreaking havoc saying hateful things about me to my family and hers, but the ones I’ve already talked to don’t believe her. I got away for the 2nd time (first time was a year ago and she talked me into going back), but this time I’m not going back.

Hang in there. 
-Warriorprincess

[matthew37]

@warriorprincess - good for you! mine this am came to tell me she needs more from me, and i should just accept she gets angry sometimes, etc. honestly if it werent for the kids i think i'd have packed a bag on the spot. hope your journey gets smoother from here out!

@justdrive - thanks, yes, we've had some, but i know we're going to need a ton more down the road.

[worriedStepmom]

Destroying your property, throwing things, and trying to physically harm you are all signs of domestic violence. Your wife is abusing you.  Have the children witnessed this?  In many jurisdictions, this is considered child abuse.

Has the violence been escalating over time, or is each meltdown about the same level of severity?

Do you think she would ever be likely to tell the police that *you* were the aggressor and file for an order of protection or report you for domestic violence?  (My H's ex is more of a waif type, but even 11 years after their divorce she tells all of her therapists that my H physically abused her during their marriage.  He did not.)  You are especially in danger if you accidentally mark her while protecting yourself from an attack.

I would highly encourage you to do a few things:
1. Get yourself and all of the kids back to therapy, if you aren't currently going.  This is a lot to unpack.
2. Consult a lawyer to find out what your legal options are.  This does not mean you have to file for divorce or attempt a separation.  It means that you are giving yourself the information that you need to make good decisions. You will likely want to know what the process for divorce looks like in your jurisdiction, how assets might be split, what type of custody arrangements are standard.  Pay special attention to what type of evidence the lawyer thinks you will need to get primary custody if you file.  I would also ask about the domestic violence and if you should be pressing charges.
3.  Consider contacting a domestic violence hotline or support group.  It is very difficult for many men to accept that they have been the victims of abuse, especially if they haven't been physically harmed.  You aren't alone in this.  If you decide to leave the relationship, people trained in handling domestic violence can help you make a safety plan for you and your kids.

I understand that you are very concerned with your wife's mental state if you leave. You love her and care about her.  Even though they've been divorced over a decade, my H still struggles to make some decisions because he is terrified that his ex will commit suicide and their daughter will blame him and hate him.  It has taken him a long time to understand that his primary job is to protect SD13 from her mom's abuse, not to protect mom. 

I wish you the very best of luck.  It's not easy to balance everyone's needs.

[matthew37]

Thanks worriedStepmom, really appreciate your thoughts.

I've spoken with a lawyer (a couple actually) but I think your point on family therapy could be really good to get ahead of. Appreciate it!
Have a nice weekend!