What do I do? H committed to hospital after major(?) episode

[Lovemyself]

I’m new here, and have thoroughly benefited from reading others stories.  I am very fresh off a traumatic event and am seeking advice.

To make it short, I have been with my husband for 20 hrs.  For the last 12 of them I knew he had a mental health condition, but only for the last 3 hrs has he had treatment.  His initial diagnosis was depression, then bipolar, then bpd, then ADHD (from a different doctor) My husband basically took it upon himself to treat the Adhd and forget about the bpd.  So his med person went along with it and gave him a crap load of stimulants and other concoctions of medicine about every month.  I believe he felt adhd was a more acceptable thing to have than bpd.  Unfortunately he has been improperly medicated the last couple of years, and had a traumatic surgery that caused ptsd, which has resulted in intense behaviors, paranoia, accusations, threats to harm himself, and eventually to harm others.  I reached out to family and his counselor after he refused to listen to me regarding seeing another provider and the medications were not working and just making things so bad that he couldn’t even tell how his actions were affecting his wife and children.  I lived through so many episodes of paranoia, suicidal threats, threats to leave, that I started to become good at talking him down and getting him back to a “good space”.  It was exhausting and once the children started to become affected is when I realized how much I had been affected yet been enabling him to be a selfish, manipulative, unhealthy person. 

The night came.  The night that would change everything.  Out of nowhere he accused me of absolutely ridiculous things, then proceeded to say he was going to kill himself, and got out a knife.  Once I said I was going to call the police he took my phone and a struggle ensued with me attempting to get it back.  My children heard and called their grandma for help.  What comes next breaks my heart.  He told the children it was all our fault and the family is destroyed because of them.  He told my daughter he was going to kill himself before anyone got there. Grandma got here and decided to call the police.  By the time the police got to our home he was calm and cooperative, and after 15 hrs in the er and a 48 hr hold put in place, he was headed to a facility 3 hrs away.  He has now been there for 48 hrs and has to go before a judge to find out if he has to stay longer.  They said it will be at least 5 days that he will be there. At this time, the plan (at the recommendation of his counselor that I completely agree with) is when he is released he will not come home, but to his parents for an extended period of time and will have limited contact with the children—supervised of course.  DHS is now involved and I’ve been advised to get a lawyer.   

What do I do?  My mind is so overwhelmed. I’ve never felt like this.   My relationship with him is obviously hurt, and has been for years.  Our children want him to be home, but not until they know this won’t happen again.   I guess I’m not really sure what advice I am looking for.  Maybe I’m just looking more for others like me.  Anyone?   

[khibomsis]

Lovemyself, what a beautiful name!  and welcome to the family! I have never been in that situation, my expwBPD rages but has never threatened self-harm, thankfully. Others will be along in a little while who can advise you better.

The only thing I can say is that quite apart from your husband being prescribed for the wrong disease, prescription medications often have the weirdest side effects. My expwBPD would always go off her head  after taking a particular medication, once going so far as hitting me. It may be worth it checking the medications and also drug interactions.

My two cents is let him stay there for as long as possible while you rest. You and the kids all will be suffering from PTSD and it is important to get yourselves to treatment if you can. Do you have a possibility to access therapy?

In the meantime focus on good sleep, eating and exercise, even if just a mild and gentle walk. It is surprising how getting those basics right helps you to deal with the situation.
 

[formflier]

 

Please come back and post regularly.  You need so much support right now.

Do you have a medical team and counseling team in YOUR corner? 

Perhaps a separate one for your kids.

Have you filed the police report about him interfering with a 911 call?  In most states, thats a very serious issue?

Have you spoken to a lawyer to make sure your legal rights are protected?

Have you filed a temp restraining order?

These are all questions and ideas..nothing directive.  It's important that you and your children are safe and that should he decide to return home against the advice of his medical team, that the authorities have the proper paperwork in order to quickly remove him.

These are things to talk through with a a lawyer that has your best interests at heart.

Best,

FF

[worriedStepmom]

Oh my goodness, what a traumatic experience for you and your kids.  I am so glad that you are all safe, and so proud that your kids knew that you needed help and reached out to get it.  That was so brave of them.

How old are the kids?

If you aren't already in therapy, I highly recommend that you find a therapist for yourself and the kids ASAP.   It will  be good for all of you to have a neutral person to help you process what happened that night - and what has been happening over the last few years.

My stepdaughter (SD13)'s uBPDmom has been hospitalized 3 times (twice in the last 2 years).  Each time, the hospitalization was temporarily good - they stabilized her with medications and got her started on therapy.  However, each time within six months she was back to her old patterns. 

Our situation is a little different from yours - H and his ex have been divorced 11 years.  3 years ago, we figured out that SD wasn't sleeping at mom's house because she was afraid that mom would kill herself. We've worked hard (3 years in a row in court!) to find the right balance for SD to be with her mom but not be traumatized.  H now has close to full custody - SD sees mom 4 days/month for 8 hrs (no overnights).  SD really really really wants mom "to get better" but she is adamant that she doesn't want more time with mom as she is.

Right now, your H is being taken care of.  He has a medical team and his parents.
Your job is to take care of yourself and your kids. 

You've spent so much time trying to manage the situation with your H that it can be quite a shock when you have to switch your focus.  We are here for you as you work through what that looks like for you.

[ForeverDad]

I believe all the literature states Bipolar is largely a chemical or hormonal imbalance and meds can try to correct that.  However, BPD is a psychological or behavioral disorder and meds can only moderate the skewed mental perceptions.  CBT or DBT (Cognitive or Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) are recognized as the best approach but of course the extent of recovery depends on the patient's willingness to apply it and extended time.  We're talking years to defuse those cycles of ups and downs, push and pull, skewed perceptions that are denied, etc.

Borderline is a disorder most evident with those closest to the person.  And what is closer than spouse and children?  So yes it is best for him to be elsewhere for as long as possible, both to see whether he will apply himself to seek recovery as well as for you and the kids to recover too.

However, be forewarned.  While some with BPD do recover long term, many don't.  Short term, maybe, then many fall off the wagon again, so to speak, once they're back in their closest of relationships.

[livednlearned]

Oh my. I'm so glad you reached out for support. What a traumatic event for you and the kids, and for grandma too. Is grandma your husband's mother? I'm wondering if this was just as alarming for her, or is there a history of this kind of reaction?

What do I do?  My mind is so overwhelmed. I’ve never felt like this.   My relationship with him is obviously hurt, and has been for years.  Our children want him to be home, but not until they know this won’t happen again.   I guess I’m not really sure what advice I am looking for.  Maybe I’m just looking more for others like me.  Anyone?   

That makes sense what the kids are saying. My son used to say he didn't like that his dad and I split up but he was glad we left. I think separation or divorce is complex for our kids in particular. Not that you're necessarily going there, only that it can be complicated how our kids ask for safety when it involves a parent. Most kids know what safety feels like and BPD can definitely feel not safe. I realize now my son wanted safety first, then his dad, and when it became clear he couldn't have both, he chose safety. I guess I did too.

My son witnessed one of his dad's psychotic episodes alone (we were divorced). I was scared to call the police because I worried my ex would appear just normal enough, and the cops couldn't guarantee that my son could come with me. Leaving him there after a visit from the police wasn't an option because I knew it would escalate things into the stratosphere, so I white-knuckled my way through the night praying that professionals who counseled me were right that ex wouldn't hurt himself or anyone else.

I feel for you and what you're going through. It's like having every last nerve exposed to the elements.

The one saving grace for your family is that the illness is now out in the bright light, out of the shadows. When you can see it, you can name it, and then you can start to understand it, even if it takes years.

Kids tend to sort of re-process things as they go through developmental milestones. It's almost like they acquire new perspective along the way and go back to the trauma to understand it again with this newfound knowledge. Having a counselor help them process at whatever age-appropriate level they're at can help kick start the healing, otherwise they may bury things and avoid them, only to have things follow them.

My son doesn't talk about the night of his dad's psychotic episode and he doesn't go into detail about the abuse. But he will point out how he sometimes freezes when he hears yelling, which is exactly what he did the night of the psychosis. I was counseled to tell him how clever he was to pretend he was asleep because that's a smart response to a tricky situation, and my son seems to treat this "freezing" response in more or less positive terms. The body keeps the score, as Bessel van der Kolk writes in his book of that name. Your kids may remember the words their dad said, which will take some time to work through. You can also point out to them that they acted and did the right thing, and the four of you (with grandma) managed a crisis, each doing your own thing. A positive narrative to attach to a horrible night, something they can internalize so that they don't perceive themselves as helpless.  

Do you have a sense how your husband will respond if he's released to his parents?

[Purplerain23]

Big hugs this is very traumatic but is really a rock bottom
 That can lead to getting your family the help that it needs. I think all other post covered most of what I would say but one thing that may sound weird. Release the shame and stigma the having DHS involved may be cause I g you right now . You can get a lot of good free help from them . Help such as counselors that come to your home for you and your children , supervised visits for the kids with their dad. We like to refer to it as wrap around care... be honest with them that you need help. This time I hope will be a good reprieve for you to get some rest and care for yourself and next the kids .  Let the doctors ect deal with him right now ... how does the saying go ? “ Put your own oxygen mask on first .”

[PearlsBefore]

When you say you've been with him 20 hrs and he's had treatment for 3 hrs, I assume you means years not hours? Assuming I've understood the situation correctly though, I'd say to remember that he's gone 20 years without ever doing that before. I'm not saying to overlook it (obviously), but perhaps you're doing yourself and him a disservice to think that it's in keeping with him being [long list of negatives]. Keep in mind that he's presumably been TRYING to avoid showing it - but is sometimes legitimately overwhelmed by his mental malfunction. I've seen the self-harm in front of children dozens of times, I've seen them attempt suicide in front of the children while explaining what they were doing, I've seen them tell their children that they wish their kids were dead because the kids ruined the pwBPD's life...in short, if I haven't  "seen it all", I haven't yet heard of what I haven't seen. (Other than two people here who have NPD/BPD siblings, okay, never seen that). One of the young children now makes reference to things like suicide in daily life, maybe his friend didn't show up today at the playground because he decided to kill himself, etc. Unhealthy, sure - but hopefully reversible with some proper parenting from the other side.

Picture him in a hospital gown not just now that he's in one, but when going back to "that day" or any of the other terrifying displays; it will help you keep perspective and avoid demonizing him. It can be easy to "Split" after seeing it so long, but it's dangerous.

That said, I definitely agree with you that focusing on the ADHD instead of the BPD/Bipolar (his attack sounds like either) was definitely a mistake on his part.

[MeandThee29]

I went through something similar, although we were separated and he ended up in the ICU after having taken a bottle of pills. He survived, and then did time in the behavioral unit. He came home, and then months later was many times even worse, and then took off for another state.

Whatever the behavioral unit says, keep in mind that they are short-term focused. They are merely going to get him stabilized and then send him off to his parents. That doesn't mean he's truly better, it just means that he's been observed for long enough that they think he's not going off the deep end again soon. They will send him off with a packet of plans for how he's supposed to manage issues that might lead to another episode and maybe pills. He likely will get better away from you, but that doesn't mean that he can handle being around you. If you're around him even without the kids, he may go into another psychotic episode.

I wish that you weren't going through this. I wish that I didn't know about these things. I often wonder if anything had gone differently if mine had gone off to stay with relatives or gone to a local halfway house instead of coming home. He seemed so sure that we would beat it and prepared to make major changes. However, soon enough he threw off responsibility for his actions and was blaming me for the suicide attempt and more. Of course if anyone else was around or asked, he was on his best behavior.

He ultimately massaged the story to manage his image and got his relatives on his side, and I just gave up. He started the divorce process, and I knew it had to be. Both attorneys said it was one of the most memorable cases of their careers. That was my closure. What a way to remember several decades together though. 

[Lovemyself]

I posted this over a week ago and I thank everyone for their support, suggestions, concern, comments. To clarify, Yes I meant years not hours. To answer some of the questions: my children are 13, 9, and 4. My husband was released last Wednesday to his parents home.  Right now he is not to come to the house unattended, must have consent, and myself and the children not be there.  I have changed the locks, garage code, and have gotten a new security system.  At this time he has been compliant with the rules I have made (mine and what has been advised by DHS, doctors, counselors). He says this has been a wake up call and things are going to be different now, that he will do everything I ask, that he will do everything I need.  He is promising the world right now and the problem is I don’t know if I’m strong enough to even want to consider the notion of being in the same room, let alone being together again in the same house.  Is that horrible? 
I am going to call it what it is, because the counselors, social worker, family and friend have all called it...control, manipulation, and abuse.  For years.  And unfortunately the final straw was a horrible mental health breakdown, but that’s one of many.  Every aspect of our marriage has been destroyed through years of lying, indiscretions, and lack of acknowledgment of wrong doing against our marriage has led to this.  I don’t want to go in to detail, but I am currently trying to figure out if his behaviors are personality or mental health.  And in the end does it matter?  Horrible things have been said and done that I feel completely beat down.  How can I possibly attempt to move in a direction of reconciliation?  Can it happen?

[formflier]

  How can I possibly attempt to move in a direction of reconciliation?  Can it happen?

For clarity..we are not supposed to tell people to stay or go.

To answer your question...give it time, lots of time looking at the situation with "clear eyes".

It can happen.

Whether or not your decide to attempt this is a different matter.

How are you getting along in your house with your children? 

What is your support system like?

Best,

FF

[Lovemyself]

I guess I am not asking if I should stay or go, I am asking is it possible for the borderline/narcissist for things to actually change? Does anyone have any experience with a positive outcome?

Yes I do have a good support system with both sets of parents. And I didn’t answer someone’s question earlier, and other questions.  Yes it was his mom that ended up calling the police, and initially he was furious with her.  They are now good, and he is staying with them for an unknown period of time.
Also, I do not have a restraining order, but I have been very clear that if he does not follow the rules exactly, I will not hesitate to take further action.   
I started the children. In therapy right away, or at least got it set up.  We are taking it slow, as the kids are hesitant to open up to someone they don’t know.    When it comes to what the home life is like right now, besides the emotions that I am going through, everything is great.  No drama, threats, the kids are doing well.  I’ve gotten so much done that has been neglected in our home (maintenance, fixing things, etc.) because I was so consumed with the drama of how my husband was feeling.  I am able to spend more time with the kids.  The kids miss him sometimes, but for the most part, they are fine.  They are not anxious and stressed about how dad’s going to react to things.
I know everyone’s situation is different, and again, I’m looking for others who have been able to trust again.  How did you do it, if you chose to even try? I know in someone’s response they said that some with BPD recover long term but many don’t. That it is short term and will “fall off the band wagon” once back in the close relationship.  This is what I fear.   

[formflier]

Do you have a therapist for yourself?

It's not my analogy, but I found it works well.  Think of a three legged stool.

leg 1  Bpdfamily

leg 2  therapists and professionals

leg 3 friends and outlets to normal (so some friends/family may be up in leg 2)

I'm not suggesting that you never open up to friends and family, yet I hope you can understand some of these things are so extreme...it can be hard for people to empathize/understand. 

That's why leg 1 is so crucial...we get it.

Leg 3 is critical.  You need a big part of your life where you discuss "normal" joys and problems and don't bring up BPDish stuff. 

Now..think about the stool.  What happens if you take away a leg?

Switching gears.

Yes they can change and I'm not aware of anyway to predict that now.

It is a good thing he is compliant.  Please know that he will "backslide"..that's just part of it.

Time is so critical.  Look at the "trend" over many months.

Then make decisions...make decisions about small steps.  Then big ones will tend to work themselves out.

So...what did you "hear" in this post?

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

I know everyone’s situation is different, and again, I’m looking for others who have been able to trust again.  How did you do it, if you chose to even try? I know in someone’s response they said that some with BPD recover long term but many don’t. That it is short term and will “fall off the band wagon” once back in the close relationship.  This is what I fear.   

There's often a lot of trauma in families with a BPD sufferer so sometimes this question is answered by our own mental health needs.

And time.

After an episode like the one you and the kids experienced, at the very least gift yourself some time to be at baseline.

For some of us, baseline can bring up PTSD type symptoms because we are primed for the other shoe to drop.

I used to tell my son, "my job is to keep you safe."

Maybe that's what you can tell yourself and the kids for now. "My job is to keep to keep us safe and right now I'm gathering information."

My son is now 19 and a few years ago he said, "I wish you had protected me sooner," which is a blow to the heart let me tell you. It's also a sign that, despite my failings, he trusts me. I did protect him and he recognizes that.

That's the trust that, to me, had to be maintained at all costs.

I would vet counselors at school or ones we hired and let him know who I trusted and why.

You all deserve to feel safe and there are many ways to go about creating that for yourself. You also deserve to take things slow and gathering the information you need to make that choice for yourself and the kids.

[formflier]

There's often a lot of trauma in families with a BPD sufferer so sometimes this question is answered by our own mental health needs.

And time.

You will find many people here that have been successful in walking the path they have thought wisest for their families/themselves.

The two broad paths are "staying" or "leaving".  Yet...I think most in each group would agree that "time" is critical.

These things just can't be rushed and often when you look back over your history, you can find out that "rushing" seemed to create more problem than it solved.

1.  Time

2.  Kindness to yourself

3.  Determination to hold boundaries and values.

Best,

FF

[ForeverDad]

He is promising the world right now...

Of course he is.  Maybe it's because he's in a more stable state right now, but it's also that he's messed up so bad that there's nothing else he can say.  Knowing that you have no idea how long he will be "less unstable" — and his history — your amount of trust in that ought to be about as far as you can throw an anchor.

I am going to call it what it is, because the counselors, social worker, family and friend have all called it...control, manipulation, and abuse.  For years.  And unfortunately the final straw was a horrible mental health breakdown, but that’s one of many.  Every aspect of our marriage has been destroyed through years of lying, indiscretions, and lack of acknowledgment of wrong doing against our marriage has led to this.  I don’t want to go in to detail, but I am currently trying to figure out if his behaviors are personality or mental health.  And in the end does it matter? ... How can I possibly attempt to move in a direction of reconciliation?

You are right to be skeptical.  This wasn't a one-off event.  Your relationship has always had obstacles and sabotage.  That a return would result in roses and sunshine just isn't believable.

YOU make the call.  It's okay to say you're done.  No one will criticize you for that.

Here's another reason for caution.  If you do allow him back, you will always be on edge waiting for the other shoe to come crashing down.  Like a slow motion train wreck that got switched to a siding but is back on the main track again.

That doesn't mean he can't be a dad from a distance, with caution and judicious boundaries.

[worriedStepmom]

You have done an amazing amount of stuff in the last few weeks.  You've gotten counselors to help you and your kids!  You've been working on the house.  You've been taking your life back and taking stock of what YOU want and need.  You've recognized some of the bad patterns and you want better for yourself and your kids.  THAT IS GOOD.  The questions you are asking are very natural.

When my first H (not BPD) and I separated, my instinct was to want to stay married - for my kids to have an intact family, for me to honor my vows, to fulfill my dream/plan of being married forever to this person I loved.  As time went on, as I healed and built a life for myself, I realized that I didn't want that old marriage again.  It wasn't healthy. If my H had asked to reconcile, I'd have had a really hard decision to make.  By the time the divorce was final, I was glad.

I think a good question to ask yourself is - what part of your marriage was good?  What part of your H did you like?  What percentage of the marriage and your H was good?  If, for example, 75% of what your H did was unhealthy...do you want to wait and see if he can change that much of himself?  You might have a different answer if it was only 10%.