Going No Contact with the Extended Family and Their Friends

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I am in the process of going no contact with most of my extended family and the long time family friends. It seems that for my whole life, the relatives and family friends did not like me, while the people who did like and enjoy me are of no interest to the extended family and the long time family friends, and the disinterest is mutual. I am coming to terms with the fact that most of the extended family members and their friends are narcissists; they maintain their superficial relationships by putting each other on a pedestal, never offending each other, and running smear campaigns against anyone who does not lick their boots. Throughout my life, I have taken a lot of constructive feedback from healthy people, so I can learn how to have healthy relationships. Right now, I am stressing out at times over having to still interact with these narcissistic people until some legal issues can get settled. What are your experiences with groups of narcissistic individuals who seem to be able to maintain long term superficial relationships  while smearing anybody that does not buy into their grandiosity?

[zachira]

I am in the process of going no contact with most of my extended family and the long time family friends. It seems that for my whole life, the relatives and family friends did not like me, while the people who did like and enjoy me are of no interest to the extended family and the long time family friends, and the disinterest is mutual. I am coming to terms with the fact that most of the extended family members and their friends are narcissists; they maintain their superficial relationships by putting each other on a pedestal, never offending each other, and running smear campaigns against anyone who does not lick their boots. Throughout my life, I have taken a lot of constructive feedback from healthy people, so I can learn how to have healthy relationships. Right now, I am stressing out at times over having to still interact with these narcissistic people until some legal issues can get settled. What are your experiences with groups of narcissistic individuals who seem to be able to maintain long term superficial relationships  while smearing anybody that does not buy into their grandiosity?

[Notwendy]

It was my BPD mother who manipulated the NC for me with her FOO, and some of her friends. I grieved that loss and also was shocked to see how much she was able to influence them. Eventually ( probably at her request) one of them reached out to reconnect.

The issue for me isn't them. They aren't bad people. Yes, they are  a bit narcisistic and do the mutual admiration thing, but it's not a reason that I would be NC with them. LC is preferable. The issue for me is that my mother is constantly manipulating the situation and having boundaries with her is difficult. In this sense, NC was easier as if there was no contact, I didn't have to deal with this. I have boundaries with my mother directly but this is a way for her to push the  boundaries through them.

I think for you Zachira- the choice between NC and LC is how much you want to stay in contact and the difficulty it may be. Sometimes NC is an easier choice but then it comes with the disconnect from some family members. LC requires maintaining boundaries and being cordial but not close.

[tvda]

Hi Zachira,

I think going NC with your narcissistic relatives and focusing on healthier people outside of that circle would be a very healthy thing to do. Narcissists isolate you from your healthy circle of people so they can more easily manipulate me. Making a swing in the opposite direction can only be a good thing.

[Notwendy]

I am actually not a fan of going opposite. This was also discussed with me by a counselor. Sometimes the total opposite of one kind of dysfunction is also dysfunction. Choosing to act on something based on our own choice, rather than the behavior of others is the more centered goal.

Yes, a relationship with someone with NPD is difficult and preferably avoided. But this also is on a spectrum and depends on the relationship and how much/type contact there is. There's a big difference between living with someone with BPD in a romantic situation and seeing a relative on occasion at a family wedding or once a year at Christmas. In the first case, there are ongoing daily interactions. With the occasional, it might be better to just be superficially polite rather than on non speaking terms.

In my situation, it's the latter. The interactions involve occasional emails and some family get togethers where it's difficult and annoying. But these family members are all interconnected and to be NC with all of them, I might have to really declare a major rift and create more divisions.  Even in a marriage, divorce might not separate the two people entirely. If they have children, they can't be NC with each other. They may have shared friends or even a shared workplace. Sometimes being able to remain cordial and superficial, with less drama is the more feasable choice than NC. Either way though, the decision should be based on the person's choice- not based on reacting to the person(s) with NPD. It might seem the same- but the intent is different.

[zachira]

Notwendy and tvda,
For  me, it is the aha moment realizing that the people my sister is able to manipulate to buy into her story that she is this famous accomplished person and I am a total loser, are narcissistic just like her. I know now when I describe anything terrible that my sister has done to me, like continuing to take all the holidays at the cottage and insist I not be there while I pay half the expenses, and the person's response is how much he/she admires my sister, that they are narcissists like her. There are people who do not buy into my sister's glorified image of herself. This is an even bigger aha moment for me. These people tend to like me and I like them. My sister disengages from these people once she realizes she cannot get the admiration from them that she so desperately craves. I now have a formula for who is safe to be around, and who I must have extremely tight boundaries with. All my life, I have had the experience of people who seemed to like me who know my sister, suddenly treat me like I was this terrible person. It happened over and over again with the extended family and family friends. Yet, there have always been people who treated me with kindness and respect, no matter how my sister tried to influence them behind the scenes. I feel I can now start to let go of the narrative that I am a victim, that will always suddenly be discarded. It is because of my refusal to accept abuse, that I have been a target. I feel so much hope now for a better and brighter future, despite my legal battles with my siblings, which will hopefully be resolved sooner than later. I feel that I am worthy of having healthy friendships and relationships, and I can let go of the terror of getting too close to the wrong people and eventually getting discarded.

[Notwendy]

If you can do that and it's best for you, then go for it.


I think it's good that you can let go of the victim narrative. I feel it's important for that. Your FOO and mine as well can think what they think but that doesn't make it true. You can choose who you wish to be in contact with or not. Once you are done with the legal battles you can disengage completely if you wish to. Yes, you don't deserve to be treated like that .

[zachira]

Notwendy,
Thank you for understanding. When I first started posting on this site, my mother with BPD was still alive, and like you, I did not want to go no contact with her, despite how badly she treated me, and like you, I worked on setting healthier boundaries with her, which led to more mistreatment and the escalation of the ongoing smear campaign of me with the extended family and friends. You are married and close to your children, making sure to protect them from being mistreated by your mother by never allowing them to be alone with her until they were old enough to protect themselves. I have never married and am now too old to have children. I now have friends and neighbors whose children I enjoy and the children seem to love interacting with me most of the time. I do hope that when your mother dies, you will feel mostly relieved, and not have to experience the terrible heartbreak I have with my siblings viewing my mother's getting old and passing away as a green light to accelerate their abuse of me. Have you thought about how things might go once your mother passes, and what you might need to do now, to protect yourself from further abuse once your mother is gone?

[tvda]

Even when I was writing the words "swing in the opposite direction" I was wondering if I wasn't putting it too harshly. And I probably have. I concur with NotWendy in that the polar opposite is probably not healthy either.

So, to rephrase my words: maybe going in the "opposite direction" somewhat is healthy for you, to achieve a more balanced position. Going from one extreme to the other is most likely unnecessary, as the boundaries you impose are in fact internal, and there are probably ways to achieve a better balance for yourself without making things too extreme or chaotic.

[Notwendy]

Hi Zachira-

It's hard to predict how a family would react to stress and loss. One thing that is different for you is that you are dealing with inheritance and property issues. I don't own a property with a sibling like you have. I think you have a solid reason to not allow your siblings to take advantage of you and to stand up to them.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
Thank you for your kindness and understanding. It is so sad that my siblings and I own property together and my brother refuses to follow the instructions in the will despite the urging of the lawyer mom put in charge. I so wish my being involved with my siblings was a choice and not an obligation because of the legal problems. I often wished I had a choice to not have my mother in my life yet going no contact with her was not what I wanted to do. My mother was very generous in many ways, did love her children as best as she was able, had Complex PTSD and was severely mentally ill, including having BPD. I know you have chosen to help your mother while setting better boundaries with her. I hope that when your mother dies, that you do not have any major heartbreaking problems with your siblings and extended family.

[missing NC]

I feel for you Zachira.  I understand all too well the agony of an effective smear campaign and just how skillful a cluster B individual can be at marshalling support from flying monkeys. I am increasingly convinced that the passage of time is key to attaining some semblance of peace.  I am hoping 2022 is your year as 2020 and 2021 thus far have been so painful.  True NC is just not possible while you are still legally entwined. 

[zachira]

missing NC,
Thank you for your kindness, understanding, and taking time to respond. Yes, the ongoing smear campaign by my sister, her flying monkeys, both extended family and long time family friends and acquaintances, is indeed painful. It is helping to realize that those who enable my sister are narcissists as well, and that the people who are truly able to have healthy friendships and relationships tend to like me and have no interest in my sister's grandiosity. It seems that my sister tests people as to whether or not they will buy into her greatly exagerrated grandiose story that she is famous, and when they don't she is not interested in them. My challenge is to learn as much as I can on how to be a better friend and how to have healthy relationships, instead of ruminating about all the heartbreak my narcissitic family members and their enablers have caused. I have learned today that the best protection against all the ruminating is to have a list of distractions, and then do one of the distractions when I start to ruminate. I too am hoping that 2022 will be the year that I will finally feel free, more able to fully enjoy life, that the major legal problems will have been resolved.

[Notwendy]

Thanks Zachira-

My mother is not generous with me and if she thinks I want something, then she's controlling with it. I learned a long time ago to never ask or want anything of her- not emotionally or materially.

You are in the situation of staying your ground for things that you jointly owned and that you know your mother wished for you to have. I think that's part of the difficulty for you- knowing it was what your mother wanted and it's worth legally pursuing. I think that's a part of it- you want to fulfil your mother's wishes and stand up for your rights.

In terms of heartbreaking drama, I think the way my mother and her FOO behaved towards me around the time of my father's death showed me a lot and even if I am in casual contact, I keep an emotional distance,

[zachira]

Notwendy,
I am sad for you that your mother doesn't ever treat you well or recognize what a wonderful daughter she has. It doesn't sound like you will have any good memories of your mother when she is gone.
You have helped me more than I can put into words. Your stories about how your father enabled your mother and did not stand up for you, have helped me to sort out how badly the enablers have treated me. I realize enablers are not people I can trust even thought they may be generous at times.
I have been watching Dr. Ramani's excellent videos on narcissim. She suggests to stop the ruminating to have a list of distraction activities to engage in when the ruminating starts,something I am going to put into my repetoire of long term coping skills. I go between ruminating and effectively processing painful emotions before I get emotionally overwhelmed.
I feel like I am a work in progress becoming more of a person who is less and less emeshed in my family's toxic culture and more of a differentiated healthy individual. Once in a while, I view the videos of the family zoom sessions, and lately I can only watch the videos for a few minutes before I become turned off by their terrible behaviors: passive-agressive jokes that attack others, braggging; most of the family members never look happy, mostly seem sad behind the forced smiles, and appear to be extremely insecure.

[Notwendy]

I am glad I could help you. I do have good memories of times with my father. He was a parent to me and in a sense, I felt as if my only parent died when he did. Although I have a mother, we don't have the same kind of relationship.

I am glad you are beginning to form your own life separate from the grief your FOO has caused. Hopefully the legal issues will end soon and you will be able to move past this difficult time.

[madeline7]

Zachira,
It seems that a choice between NC and LC is what is the lesser of the two evils. And many of us here vacillate between the two. It is often fluid, not like the black and white mind set of the pBPD. I often think if things will be different when my elderly uBPDm will no longer be here. I do think I will have a different approach when that happens. But then I think maybe  not. What I am learning is that whatever I decide to do at a certain moment in time will be the right choice for me, I do not have to explain myself to others, and I can change my mind at any time and that is ok too. Right now I am LC, and can imagine that I may be NC with a sibling as time goes on. How that will be for the FOO, my neices and nephews, I do not know. But I know that there may be a legal issue in the future, and I will likely choose NC if what I think will happen does. But I also know that I won't know until the time happens. What I do know is that I do not deserve to be treated poorly, and neither do you. I am glad that you have found people outside of your FOO that get you. For me, the year of the pandemic has been terrible in many ways, but it has also helped to put things in perspective. When the restrictions lift, I will mainly choose to be around others who like me, get me and respect me. It seems like you are doing the same.

[zachira]

madeline7,
Always good to hear from you though I am sad about the dysfunctional family relationships that bring us to this site. It sounds like you are doing what is right for you, and are not putting up with being disrespected by your family members. Hopefully the worst of the pandemic will be behind us soon, and we can seek out more of the right kind of people to spend quality time with. You think you may go NC with one of your siblings once your mother is gone. I wish I had some idea that I might be going NC with one of my siblings before my mother died. You mentioned some time ago that your mother had threatened to disinherit you. I certainly hope that does not happen, as you are the child that has had most of the responsiblities for your mother's care. Thank you for your kindness as always.

[madeline7]

Zachira,
My Mother did write me out of the will and advanced healthcare directive about 3 years ago, during a time when she was angry with me for about a week. And now although she still has capacity, she is too forgetful to change it back, and doesn't even remember that she wrote me out. Even though I am not motivated by the money, the thought that my kids will be hurt by this makes me so angry. I was planning of splitting any inheritance between my 2 adult kids, I personally don't want anything for myself. If what I fear happens, this will be her legacy. So sad.

[zachira]

madeline7
I am sad for you and your children, that you have been excluded from the will. I am wondering if any of your siblings would be decent and generous enough to give you your share. From what you have said previously, it sounds like your siblings think you should do nearly all of the work of taking care of your mother and that they deserve all the inheritance. My living siblings are entitled and seem like small babies grasping for whatever they can get for themselves. I think it has to do with: 1) their never facing how they have been affected by my mother's BPD and the influences of the narcissistic immediate and extended families 2) their inability to have empathy. It is painful to accept how my siblings are and to be the scapegoat, yet I am so grateful that I am indeed a decent person in my own right with the ability to grow, change, and take responsiblity for my mistakes, which sometimes means sincerely apologizing to those I have not treated quite right. You have loving relationships with your children and are kind to your mother, no matter how badly she treats you, which speaks volumes about what a decent person you are, despite the circumstances.

[madeline7]

Zachira,
My siblings have stepped up to the plate, esp one recently and we are all doing our fair share. The big question is will they do the right thing when the time comes. The answer won't be revealed until then. Such a sad state of affairs. Yet I know that I do the right thing, and my kids see that. That will have to be enough. Yesterday I had a close friend of mine help me out in a big way. She was so happy to see me relieved, and it was such an amazing experience. Not only for what she did for me, but just the act of loving me and caring about me. I am grateful for my chosen family.

[Notwendy]

I didn't have any expectations of anything material from my parents, but there were some sentimental things that my father had that I wanted to pass on to my children. When my father died, I learned my mother had made arrangements for me to not have them, and she had written me out of her will. They may have had some material value, but there was no way I would have sold them anyway. But her arrangement to not let me have them felt vindictive and she was angry at me at the time. If she wanted to be hurtful she suceeded.

In a similar situation to Madeline, I didn't want these for me, I wanted them for my kids and my kids wanted them, so while she may have not intended to be hurful to them, it did impact them. She later relented and gave some things for me to keep for them that belonged to either of them. She also wrote me back into her legal papers for what that's worth, but the emotional hurt was already done.

People think of wills as important for material things,  but they have an emotional impact as well. It's comforting for someone grieving a loss of a loved one to know they thought of them and wanted them to have something of theirs, regardless of the value of it.