Detaching, but exBPD is still hanging on

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

So I've been posting somewhat regularly as I finally stepped off the roller coaster of my relationship with a dual diagnosis (BPD + Substance Abuse) now ex-girlfriend.

I started distancing myself a little over a month ago and she hurt herself the very same day, surface level cuts, but I'm now understanding that I was terrified of her self harm and that's why I had been letting myself stay stuck in this scenario where I was forced to enable her addictions. I was literally so hyperfocused on trying to take care of her and help her get sober (also because I blamed myself for her using drugs) that I was repressing / ignoring my own feelings, so once I actually got the distance I'd talked about internally for so long, the emotions all hit me at once and I couldn't make sense of them until I spoke with my counselor.

The first week she wasn't honoring my boundaries, eventually I brought all of her stuff over (left it in the car) and went in to talk to her with a note I had my counselor help me write, trying to explain that I was living in fear and repressing my emotions, and that right now we both needed to start working on ourselves, by ourselves. She was pretty, well, manic when I tried to talk to her, I can usually tell from her eyes when she's on something. I later found out she'd been drinking vodka, her mom said she was drinking it because she thought it would calm her down a bit. This whole first 1.5 weeks she was trying to force me to stay with her, saying if I walk away she'll resent me and hate me, and get better in spite of me. With the help of my counselor, and the amazing people on this group, I managed to stand my ground and drop her stuff off then drive home.

There were a few more phone calls and such, but after that it was 2 weeks of almost no contact and things were feeling better for me (less anxiety, no panic unless I saw her name and they were very small / brief bursts.)

About a week ago there was an episode when she went to the dentist and was sedated, it made her very erratic and crying uncontrollably (full post here under "3. Today") but she had her mom drive her to her apartment/condo (she had been staying with her mom) and then called me multiple times threatening to jump off the balcony. A few other things were that she doesn't understand why I left, she's still madly in love with me, and talking about how she's a failure and hates herself. This day was horrible, traumatic and I still get a lump in my throat when I think about the phone calls.

So last night my ex messaged a friend of mine by sending him a meme and they chatted a bit (he asked how she was, and if she was still talking to his girlfriend who is bipolar and really likes my ex and wants to be there for her as a support line, they both have experience with depression and suicide, and his gf opened up to my ex about her time in the psych ward and they shared stories, they also have a lot of similar interests) then my ex told him she's super depressed and she's lost the love of her life and said her and her mom are heading to her home country in EU approx end of the month (she's dual citizenship).

My friend called me and said she had mentioned that he had her extra copy of a playstation game, he offered to plug it in and play a few rounds with her because he was worried about how sad she seemed. I told him I thought it was a bad idea because she's either going to probe him for information about me, or she's going to vent to him about us (in hopes that he'll tell me).

As soon as they started playing she battered him with questions about me and he had to keep saying he wasn't getting involved in this etc, he tried to steer convo towards how she should look into self improvement or talking about great food places him and his girlfriend had tried recently.

She essentially told him she still doesn't understand why I broke up with her (she wasn't listening the night I dropped her stuff off), and doesn't get why we can't talk -- even a little bit like an hour a week, and she feels that I abandoned her in her time of need. Then said her ticket to Europe is a one way ticket and she might stay there to do schooling because its free and she's dual citizen.

She repeatedly said she didn't have closure, she didn't understand why I left her, I didn't talk to her about my reasoning. If I don't give her closure she's going to end up hating me.

And then she said some stuff about how if I don't talk to her she's going to end up hating me, how she thinks I'm already sleeping with other girls (I'm definitely not), and apparently said some comment about "Do I just go look for another guy while I'm in [country]?"

She either just needed someone to vent to, or she was trying to probe him for information and when that didn't work she used him as a method to pass information to me. I doubt she is doing it that maniacally and more than likely she's just very, very alone and sad.

I messaged her mom because my friend told me she started crying 2 times while they were playing the game, he ended up playing with her for about an hour and then said he was going to bed because it was too stressful for him. Her mom told me "She misses you and loves you. She is doing great, much better, but majorly hurt."  I replied apologizing for messaging her and said I was worried she was crying (because my brain instantly goes into "she's going to hurt herself" defense mode) and her mom said "When she cry she cry for you.".

I had also spoken with her mom last Thursday about some stuff, she told me the doctor had prescribed my ex Wellbutrin, but she was hesitant to take it because she 'doesnt feel like herself' when she's on it. I asked if they had started any form of therapy yet (BPD or Trauma) and she said they were looking into it. Her mom is kind of old school European in some ways and they seem to be feeding off each other that they can get her back to the place she was at when we started dating without therapy or possibly medication.. yes, she was doing good, she wasn't taking any drugs and had a few glasses of wine each week. But she was still untreated for BPD back then, and she still has 15+ years of serious, SERIOUS trauma that she needs to work through (I truly think I barely saw the surface level of her trauma, and she wound up in the hospital and almost died). Another thing that bothers me is that her mom said they think she is on the lower end of BPD (sort of in a way that they don't need treatment for it.. ? That's how it sounded to me.)

One thing I haven't mentioned yet is obviously I'm still in love with this woman. I wish so badly that she was getting treatment for her BPD(+Trauma) and she did enter into a recovery program, but ultimately I knew that at this point in our lives we needed to work on ourselves as the primary focus. I think about her every day, I miss her every day, but I know that our relationship was toxic on so many levels and it wasn't sustainable. Addiction and manipulation on her part alongside her hating herself, depression, social anxiety, versus my newly discovered codependent habits (enabler/caretaker) and my inability to express my emotions (part of this was fear she would self harm) which I am now working on. I'm coming to terms with the fact that she is an adult, and she needs to work towards her recovery with her own willpower, not with me as the 'reason' she's doing it.

I really feel like she doesn't have proper closure and that's part of the reason she's still hung up and can't let go of me, my friend said she sounded obsessed and it was scary, but part of me doesn't think she will properly absorb my reasonings because she still seems focused on the fact I abandoned her. She has been sober (besides some Xanax) for almost a full month now, and she hasn't had Xanax in over a week. Although she doesn't have proper closure though, she has to be aware of some things, her self harm, her threats of suicide, the fights we had constantly for the last 2-3 months because she wanted drugs..

I have an appointment with my counselor tomorrow afternoon, but I'm curious to hear from people in this community if they've had similar situations regarding closure or if their ex was unable to let go, with or without drugs involved, and how they handled them.

I'm trying to figure out how to handle this closure, should I meet with her in person, should I do it over the phone, should I write her a letter? When I talked to my counselor about this previously he said this:

we can work on some points for you to put in a letter email, but again, I would caution you on putting too much energy or detail into it. Might be better to give short bullet points and then provide online links or book titles etc. her not understanding and asking you to explain it, is in some ways, her avoidance of wanting to do her own hard work of self discovery and self understanding. To say it another way, don't do her work for her, rather point her in the direction of  where she can go to do her work , point her to the path..

[Cnvi]

So I've been posting somewhat regularly as I finally stepped off the roller coaster of my relationship with a dual diagnosis (BPD + Substance Abuse) now ex-girlfriend.

I started distancing myself a little over a month ago and she hurt herself the very same day, surface level cuts, but I'm now understanding that I was terrified of her self harm and that's why I had been letting myself stay stuck in this scenario where I was forced to enable her addictions. I was literally so hyperfocused on trying to take care of her and help her get sober (also because I blamed myself for her using drugs) that I was repressing / ignoring my own feelings, so once I actually got the distance I'd talked about internally for so long, the emotions all hit me at once and I couldn't make sense of them until I spoke with my counselor.

The first week she wasn't honoring my boundaries, eventually I brought all of her stuff over (left it in the car) and went in to talk to her with a note I had my counselor help me write, trying to explain that I was living in fear and repressing my emotions, and that right now we both needed to start working on ourselves, by ourselves. She was pretty, well, manic when I tried to talk to her, I can usually tell from her eyes when she's on something. I later found out she'd been drinking vodka, her mom said she was drinking it because she thought it would calm her down a bit. This whole first 1.5 weeks she was trying to force me to stay with her, saying if I walk away she'll resent me and hate me, and get better in spite of me. With the help of my counselor, and the amazing people on this group, I managed to stand my ground and drop her stuff off then drive home.

There were a few more phone calls and such, but after that it was 2 weeks of almost no contact and things were feeling better for me (less anxiety, no panic unless I saw her name and they were very small / brief bursts.)

About a week ago there was an episode when she went to the dentist and was sedated, it made her very erratic and crying uncontrollably (full post here under "3. Today") but she had her mom drive her to her apartment/condo (she had been staying with her mom) and then called me multiple times threatening to jump off the balcony. A few other things were that she doesn't understand why I left, she's still madly in love with me, and talking about how she's a failure and hates herself. This day was horrible, traumatic and I still get a lump in my throat when I think about the phone calls.

So last night my ex messaged a friend of mine by sending him a meme and they chatted a bit (he asked how she was, and if she was still talking to his girlfriend who is bipolar and really likes my ex and wants to be there for her as a support line, they both have experience with depression and suicide, and his gf opened up to my ex about her time in the psych ward and they shared stories, they also have a lot of similar interests) then my ex told him she's super depressed and she's lost the love of her life and said her and her mom are heading to her home country in EU approx end of the month (she's dual citizenship).

My friend called me and said she had mentioned that he had her extra copy of a playstation game, he offered to plug it in and play a few rounds with her because he was worried about how sad she seemed. I told him I thought it was a bad idea because she's either going to probe him for information about me, or she's going to vent to him about us (in hopes that he'll tell me).

As soon as they started playing she battered him with questions about me and he had to keep saying he wasn't getting involved in this etc, he tried to steer convo towards how she should look into self improvement or talking about great food places him and his girlfriend had tried recently.

She essentially told him she still doesn't understand why I broke up with her (she wasn't listening the night I dropped her stuff off), and doesn't get why we can't talk -- even a little bit like an hour a week, and she feels that I abandoned her in her time of need. Then said her ticket to Europe is a one way ticket and she might stay there to do schooling because its free and she's dual citizen.

She repeatedly said she didn't have closure, she didn't understand why I left her, I didn't talk to her about my reasoning. If I don't give her closure she's going to end up hating me.

And then she said some stuff about how if I don't talk to her she's going to end up hating me, how she thinks I'm already sleeping with other girls (I'm definitely not), and apparently said some comment about "Do I just go look for another guy while I'm in [country]?"

She either just needed someone to vent to, or she was trying to probe him for information and when that didn't work she used him as a method to pass information to me. I doubt she is doing it that maniacally and more than likely she's just very, very alone and sad.

I messaged her mom because my friend told me she started crying 2 times while they were playing the game, he ended up playing with her for about an hour and then said he was going to bed because it was too stressful for him. Her mom told me "She misses you and loves you. She is doing great, much better, but majorly hurt."  I replied apologizing for messaging her and said I was worried she was crying (because my brain instantly goes into "she's going to hurt herself" defense mode) and her mom said "When she cry she cry for you.".

I had also spoken with her mom last Thursday about some stuff, she told me the doctor had prescribed my ex Wellbutrin, but she was hesitant to take it because she 'doesnt feel like herself' when she's on it. I asked if they had started any form of therapy yet (BPD or Trauma) and she said they were looking into it. Her mom is kind of old school European in some ways and they seem to be feeding off each other that they can get her back to the place she was at when we started dating without therapy or possibly medication.. yes, she was doing good, she wasn't taking any drugs and had a few glasses of wine each week. But she was still untreated for BPD back then, and she still has 15+ years of serious, SERIOUS trauma that she needs to work through (I truly think I barely saw the surface level of her trauma, and she wound up in the hospital and almost died). Another thing that bothers me is that her mom said they think she is on the lower end of BPD (sort of in a way that they don't need treatment for it.. ? That's how it sounded to me.)

One thing I haven't mentioned yet is obviously I'm still in love with this woman. I wish so badly that she was getting treatment for her BPD(+Trauma) and she did enter into a recovery program, but ultimately I knew that at this point in our lives we needed to work on ourselves as the primary focus. I think about her every day, I miss her every day, but I know that our relationship was toxic on so many levels and it wasn't sustainable. Addiction and manipulation on her part alongside her hating herself, depression, social anxiety, versus my newly discovered codependent habits (enabler/caretaker) and my inability to express my emotions (part of this was fear she would self harm) which I am now working on. I'm coming to terms with the fact that she is an adult, and she needs to work towards her recovery with her own willpower, not with me as the 'reason' she's doing it.

I really feel like she doesn't have proper closure and that's part of the reason she's still hung up and can't let go of me, my friend said she sounded obsessed and it was scary, but part of me doesn't think she will properly absorb my reasonings because she still seems focused on the fact I abandoned her. She has been sober (besides some Xanax) for almost a full month now, and she hasn't had Xanax in over a week. Although she doesn't have proper closure though, she has to be aware of some things, her self harm, her threats of suicide, the fights we had constantly for the last 2-3 months because she wanted drugs..

I have an appointment with my counselor tomorrow afternoon, but I'm curious to hear from people in this community if they've had similar situations regarding closure or if their ex was unable to let go, with or without drugs involved, and how they handled them.

I'm trying to figure out how to handle this closure, should I meet with her in person, should I do it over the phone, should I write her a letter? When I talked to my counselor about this previously he said this:

we can work on some points for you to put in a letter email, but again, I would caution you on putting too much energy or detail into it. Might be better to give short bullet points and then provide online links or book titles etc. her not understanding and asking you to explain it, is in some ways, her avoidance of wanting to do her own hard work of self discovery and self understanding. To say it another way, don't do her work for her, rather point her in the direction of  where she can go to do her work , point her to the path..

[once removed]

i tend to agree with your counselor.

its hard. i feel your pain. the choice you made, no doubt, was not easy, and now youre grieving. and it sucks, and it isnt fair.

this board is full of people (myself included) who felt they never got closure. radio stations are filled with thousands of songs written by people that felt they never got closure.

there is typically nothing satisfactory that an ex romantic partner can say or do that will help the person they broke up with, heal. even if they wanted to.

youre dealing with someone who has a very difficult time coping as it is; your counselor is right about that. its not your task to say the right words to help her, and i dont mean to be cold when i say that, and i dont mean to suggest you cant meet up with her, or offer some explanation, or whatever you would like to do to provide her some closure. its noble. just dont expect it to satisfy her, or help her heal.

there are a lot of ways to go about this, and they very much depend on your relationship, and your style.

im of the mind that one of the best ways to break up with someone, or to give them an explanation for a breakup should they ask, is to pretty much put it on oneself; to take the blame. that person will often, eventually, come away thinking "hey, hes right, i deserve better", and that boost can help.

that obviously omits some truth, but it doesnt mean it has to be a lie. "i dont feel i can give you the love you deserve". "i just need to be in my head and on my own right now". "i just couldnt keep up with our relationship". that kind of thing.

but some people want total honesty, even if its brutal. they want to know where they went wrong. "you ate your ice cream with a fork" (i know a gal who broke up with a guy over that). "i thought you were bad at sex". "your breath is terrible".

youre dealing with someone with very fragile self esteem, of course, so i would not tend to recommend going that route. generally speaking, if you do, she will likely tend to cope with those feelings by splitting you black; sort of a "you cant fire me, i quit" kind of attitude. she may do that anyway. thats the hard part. ultimately, shes going to cope how she copes; you have very little control over that.

i probably wouldnt recommend meeting in person for this, and if you do, i would do it in a public setting. it could get very, very difficult. but again, that comes down to your relationship, and your style. you know her best. if you think the worst thing that would happen is that shed storm off, thats one thing.

whatever you do, be safe about it, be kind about it (it is possible at this point that the greater kindness could be choosing to continue not to have contact), be honest (tactfully) about it, and be realistic about it. if you choose to indulge her, i would let her do the vast, vast majority of the talking. let her vent. let her ask questions; answer them honestly but tactfully. dont expect to be heard; let her feel heard. thats likely the best you will be able to do.

good luck. keep us posted.

[Cnvi]

its hard. i feel your pain. the choice you made, no doubt, was not easy, and now youre grieving. and it sucks, and it isnt fair.
...
there is typically nothing satisfactory that an ex romantic partner can say or do that will help the person they broke up with, heal. even if they wanted to.

youre dealing with someone who has a very difficult time coping as it is; your counselor is right about that. its not your task to say the right words to help her, and i dont mean to be cold when i say that, and i dont mean to suggest you cant meet up with her, or offer some explanation, or whatever you would like to do to provide her some closure. its noble. just dont expect it to satisfy her, or help her heal.

Thank you for this, sometimes it helps to just hear/see someone else say that this isn't fair because I don't know if I have the right to feel that way. I'm trying to do the right things here, not just for myself but also for her.

I did some reading on closure last night and how ineffective it can actually be, and it has me hesitant to even try.

im of the mind that one of the best ways to break up with someone, or to give them an explanation for a breakup should they ask, is to pretty much put it on oneself; to take the blame. that person will often, eventually, come away thinking "hey, hes right, i deserve better", and that boost can help.
...
youre dealing with someone with very fragile self esteem, of course, so i would not tend to recommend going that route. generally speaking, if you do, she will likely tend to cope with those feelings by splitting you black; sort of a "you cant fire me, i quit" kind of attitude. she may do that anyway. thats the hard part. ultimately, shes going to cope how she copes; you have very little control over that.

I wish things could be more black and white, that I could actually know what to expect. I might call her mom and ask for her input (if she thinks I should try and provide some closure)

i probably wouldnt recommend meeting in person for this, and if you do, i would do it in a public setting. it could get very, very difficult. but again, that comes down to your relationship, and your style. you know her best. if you think the worst thing that would happen is that shed storm off, thats one thing.

whatever you do, be safe about it, be kind about it (it is possible at this point that the greater kindness could be choosing to continue not to have contact), be honest (tactfully) about it, and be realistic about it. if you choose to indulge her, i would let her do the vast, vast majority of the talking. let her vent. let her ask questions; answer them honestly but tactfully. dont expect to be heard; let her feel heard. thats likely the best you will be able to do.

Yeah I truly think that seeing me in person the night before her dentist appointment (where they put her on an anesthetic) is the reason that her emotions ran so wild, so I think seeing me is only going to hurt her. And honestly, it hurts me to see her too.

But I do feel she has all these questions (she repeatedly questioned my friend while he tried to play that game with her) so I feel guilty that she's sitting there not having a proper understanding as to why I've walked away. But as you said, I shouldn't expect to be heard properly..

[Cnvi]

I also saw the friend who she played the video games with the night before, and he told me she texted him to thank him and they talked about a few things, one of them he was a bit hesitant to tell me, is that she's been asked out by someone and is unsure whether to say yes and go on a date.

I'm a bit confused by this, because the friend of mine she's talking to/playing video games with isn't even a friend of mine that she liked when we were together, she thought he was an idiot (because she thought the world of his girlfriend and he regularly borrowed money from said girlfriend to buy booze/drugs), she had no respect for him and thought he was kind of a leechy person and a compulsive liar. Yet now she's telling him about guys asking her out, how she's planning to go to europe, and how she doesn't have closure / understand why I left? I can understand that she's sad and alone, because she really doesn't have a large network of friends, but I think she's talking to this specific person because she knows all of this will be relayed back to me. (And unfortunately, that he might let slip some of the stuff I've said about our relationship, I did confide in him when we were separating, and I kind of regret it now.)

The last message he showed/sent me was them talking about her heading to Europe and him saying it might be good for her to get a change of pace, she replied:

"I miss him too much. I can't see myself staying here. It's been a month and he still avoids me like the plague. It's not going anywhere unfortunately and I need to stop wishing things will be different when reality is pretty clear.

I wish it were different but it's not."

So it seems she's starting to come to terms with letting go? God this hurts. I know it's what I want, but seeing these messages last night really messed me up emotionally, I ended up drinking last night which is something I haven't done on a weeknight since the beginning of the breakup.

[Cnvi]

I had a good talk with my therapist yesterday and I felt a bit better about things, but unfortunately within a few hours I was being bombarded with intense sadness & loneliness. She was more than likely messaging with my friend to try and get in contact with me, and hearing that she's being asked out on a date feels like I'm being cut open.

My rational mind knows the relationship was unhealthy, that she only got clean because I walked away completely, and that she hasn't actually gotten any therapy (and probably won't at this rate). But I feel somewhat overpowered, or driven?, by what I'm assuming is depression and this constant fear of being eternally alone, it feels like I'm drowning.

I guess I'm just realizing how long prior to this 2 year relationship I was alone (besides some failed and short lived flings) and I'm unsure how effectively I can handle the thought of being that lonely for that long. The quarantine lifestyle definitely isn't going to help at all..

[once removed]

Yet now she's telling him about guys asking her out, how she's planning to go to europe, and how she doesn't have closure / understand why I left? I can understand that she's sad and alone, because she really doesn't have a large network of friends, but I think she's talking to this specific person because she knows all of this will be relayed back to me. (And unfortunately, that he might let slip some of the stuff I've said about our relationship, I did confide in him when we were separating, and I kind of regret it now.)

when i was in 8th grade, i had no one to sit at lunch with. that was a very depressing prospect to me at the time. eventually, i befriended and sat with a couple of guys i wouldnt otherwise have. it was better than the alternative.

for that matter, months after my breakup, i spoke to a few of my exes girlfriends (who were, by far, her friends and not mine).

its a part of her coping. it could be any of the reasons above that you listed, it could be others. it could be that none of them are conscious or all of them are.

personally, id be a little bit wary toward your friend; he is pretty involved, and its likely hes relaying things to both of you.

Thank you for this, sometimes it helps to just hear/see someone else say that this isn't fair because I don't know if I have the right to feel that way. I'm trying to do the right things here, not just for myself but also for her.

we all have the right to feel whatever we feel (feelings are different than actions). in my experience, telling myself otherwise just hurt my recovery and made me feel lousy(er). the best decisions for our mental health, and/or the ones that are a greater kindness to others, are often the hardest. i think, though, that they tend to pay off, we see that in time, but it makes it no easier going through grief.

its been about a week. have the two of you spoken at all?

I guess I'm just realizing how long prior to this 2 year relationship I was alone (besides some failed and short lived flings) and I'm unsure how effectively I can handle the thought of being that lonely for that long. The quarantine lifestyle definitely isn't going to help at all..

the loneliness was perhaps the hardest aspect of my breakup. a lot of my closest friends werent really there in ways i needed them to be, and i felt very, very isolated. i think i would have bounced back more quickly otherwise. im not really a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guy philosophically, but it did, in some ways, teach me to be a bit more self sufficient in my grief, to self soothe, to become a lot stronger, and thats something i personally needed, and you may benefit from. while i believe we should build strong support systems and surround ourselves with loved ones, i tended to lean on others in ways that werent necessarily helpful to me, and then resent them when they couldnt meet my expectations.

find something bigger than yourself and invest in it. get involved. post here, to others. i often found that the things i said to others during my recovery gave me glimpses that no one else could.

[Cnvi]

its a part of her coping. it could be any of the reasons above that you listed, it could be others. it could be that none of them are conscious or all of them are.

personally, id be a little bit wary toward your friend; he is pretty involved, and its likely hes relaying things to both of you.

Yeah, the day after I posted this I saw him again briefly and he apologized to me, he said he realized afterwards that she was probably just trying to vent, but also likely hoping he would relay messages to me and use him as a form of communication. She apparently hasn't messaged him since that day, but I am going to stay a bit on guard with him in regards to what I say as I wouldn't be suprised if he was still talking to her.

we all have the right to feel whatever we feel (feelings are different than actions). in my experience, telling myself otherwise just hurt my recovery and made me feel lousy(er). the best decisions for our mental health, and/or the ones that are a greater kindness to others, are often the hardest. i think, though, that they tend to pay off, we see that in time, but it makes it no easier going through grief.

Yeah, it doesn't feel like anything will make this grief easier. Luckily I have a good support network of friends that will let me vent my struggles and insecurities to them pretty regularly, so that helps reset my thoughts a bit.

its been about a week. have the two of you spoken at all?

No we haven't talked, she's still respecting that I don't want to talk to her. She is posting a bunch of stuff publicly on Facebook (public as in I can see it even though we aren't facebook friends) about how "if he loved you he wouldn't make you cry, he wouldn't abandon you" and a lot of things similar to that which pretty much make me out to be a super villain and her to be a victim.

I accidentally uncovered who has asked her on a date also, I saw a mutual friend/acquaintance of ours post on Facebook asking if anyone could lend him a copy of her favorite video game (that they can co-op play), and this guy did chase after her years earlier, and is recently single. I unfollowed him on Facebook so I don't see anymore posts, but this led me to a thought spiral of her attaching herself to him to avoid dealing with her issues, which likely will happen as I've mentioned before, I can't see her getting therapy since her mom isn't really going to push for it, and this is out of my control / no longer my concern.

I was struggling with the thoughts that he is big in the EDM scene and raves quite a bit, so she would likely be around drugs again in some form eventually. As far as I know she's over a month sober now, the thought of her using drugs again just makes me sad. Again, ultimately, this isn't something I cannot change as I was the one who walked away, she's an adult and is responsible for her own decisions.

the loneliness was perhaps the hardest aspect of my breakup. a lot of my closest friends werent really there in ways i needed them to be, and i felt very, very isolated. i think i would have bounced back more quickly otherwise. im not really a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guy philosophically, but it did, in some ways, teach me to be a bit more self sufficient in my grief, to self soothe, to become a lot stronger, and thats something i personally needed, and you may benefit from.

Isolated is a word I can resonate with pretty heavily right now due to the pandemic, so it sucks not being able to see a lot of my friends except over video calls and such. A few friends saw that I was hurting pretty bad and 5 of us had a small hangout two weeks ago which really helped. My T is helping me try and look inwards on my fears and grief to try and understand them better, and is also helping me learn mindfulness meditation for when I experience anxiety.

while i believe we should build strong support systems and surround ourselves with loved ones, i tended to lean on others in ways that werent necessarily helpful to me, and then resent them when they couldnt meet my expectations.

This is something I'm a bit worried of as well, so I'm trying to slow down on how much I lean on some of my friends. When I was still in the 'thick' of things a month ago I was dumping so much of my stress, anxiety, worries and doubts onto friends, and a lot of them were kind of stuck wishing they could give me more advice but they didn't want to sway my decision of staying or leaving. Once I had distanced myself from her all of the emotions I'd been repressing as I was codependently focused on her started to come to the surface and I had no idea how to even make sense of them. Ultimately though being able to vent to them about things really helped me calm down and be able to analyze my feelings.

find something bigger than yourself and invest in it. get involved. post here, to others. i often found that the things i said to others during my recovery gave me glimpses that no one else could.

I've been focusing on exercise daily, mostly DDPYoga, but it helps a great deal and I always feel a bit better after a workout.

This might sound a bit stupid but I've felt a bit out of place on this (Detaching) board recently, it seems most people here have been left by their exwBPD whereas I had to leave mine, it makes me second guess if I really have the right to give them advice because they are likely going through grief more similar to my ex rather than my own grief (no closure seems to be common), and I feel some sort of guilt there? I might just be in my own head about this / second guessing stuff.

[Purplerain23]

At first I kind of felt the same way I had to do a harsh discard of my ex a regular break up wasn’t working at all ... but... grief does have stages and for everyone it will be quite different so I think no matter how we are detaching we share these things in common... we loved someone with BPD that for whatever reason ( self initiated / or other/initiated) we are detaching from. I have come to find little nuggets of wisdom from every family member up here so please do give advice and share and don’t censor yourself.

A few weeks ago there was a fellow poster we transparently shared about the pain and sadness of hitting a day that would have bend his wedding ... another poster is way on the other side and trying to explore dating again. Some of us are posting the “ I won’t do that again  post “. Fir me my last post I was full of anger and the sheer destruction my ex caused . So I said all that to say this I value your input I think we all get better sharing our experience strength and hope ... what do you think ?

[Cnvi]

At first I kind of felt the same way I had to do a harsh discard of my ex a regular break up wasn’t working at all ... but... grief does have stages and for everyone it will be quite different so I think no matter how we are detaching we share these things in common... we loved someone with BPD that for whatever reason ( self initiated / or other/initiated) we are detaching from. I have come to find little nuggets of wisdom from every family member up here so please do give advice and share and don’t censor yourself.

A few weeks ago there was a fellow poster we transparently shared about the pain and sadness of hitting a day that would have bend his wedding ... another poster is way on the other side and trying to explore dating again. Some of us are posting the “ I won’t do that again  post “. Fir me my last post I was full of anger and the sheer destruction my ex caused . So I said all that to say this I value your input I think we all get better sharing our experience strength and hope ... what do you think ?

No this definitely does make sense, I was kind of building up something in my head and telling myself I didn't have the right to post here because my circumstances were different, but I don't know why I was focusing on the differences in my situation, everyone posting here to support and be supported by the community we have here and it's amazing.

This board was a life saver, and I'm 100% certain I wouldn't have been able to end and detach if it wasn't for the people here. Every time I started wavering in my resolve there were awesome people to help me work through what I was feeling (and also help me see the manipulative behavior and tactics my ex was using to try and force me to stay with her.)

Although I wasn't posting as regularly I was still reading this board 2-3 times a day, it hurts to hear some of the stories that people here have. What they've had to endure, but I guess we're all in it together somewhat now, and we can help each other through our stages of grief and along our path to recovery, and ultimately more healthy relationships.

Thanks Purplerain23, that helped a lot!

[once removed]

this led me to a thought spiral of her attaching herself to him to avoid dealing with her issues, which likely will happen as I've mentioned before, I can't see her getting therapy since her mom isn't really going to push for it, and this is out of my control / no longer my concern.

i think this is one of the hardest parts. it sounds like, perhaps to over simplify, that you broke up with her out of what you felt was necessity, as opposed to from a place of being 100% done, and so there is, or was, some hope of that reconciliation, that she would see the light, and that a reconciliation would be possible. my circumstances were very different (i was dumped), but that plagued me too. in a sort of very cold and clinical way, hope is attachment.

and on top of that, obviously, and understandably, you still love her on some level. even if you were 100% done, i imagine the prospect of her with someone else, whether for the right or wrong reasons, would sting.

its one thing to accept we have no control over it all. and in grieving, its actually a very critical thing! but it doesnt make it sting less.

Isolated is a word I can resonate with pretty heavily right now due to the pandemic, so it sucks not being able to see a lot of my friends except over video calls and such. A few friends saw that I was hurting pretty bad and 5 of us had a small hangout two weeks ago which really helped. My T is helping me try and look inwards on my fears and grief to try and understand them better, and is also helping me learn mindfulness meditation for when I experience anxiety.

yeah, i wasnt really considering all of that when i mentioned becoming part of something bigger than yourself. its not easy right now. it wouldnt necessarily be advisable to just go work in a soup kitchen, or to surround yourself with friends. do the hangouts as youre able, its good to see that your friends rallied to you.

This might sound a bit stupid but I've felt a bit out of place on this (Detaching) board recently, it seems most people here have been left by their exwBPD whereas I had to leave mine, it makes me second guess if I really have the right to give them advice because they are likely going through grief more similar to my ex rather than my own grief (no closure seems to be common), and I feel some sort of guilt there? I might just be in my own head about this / second guessing stuff.

detaching is just about helping others grieve in a healthy, mature, and complete way. its been over ten years for me now, im in a very different place (i try to be mindful of that, and we all should be of each others different circumstances and different rates of healing), but the fundamentals are the same. everyone comes here with wounds, many of which are shared and/or overlapping. the lessons and the stages of detachment help are a good guide, i found, for myself personally, and for helping others.

between you and me, keep your eye on whats ahead of you. youre following a solid path. you wont recognize the pain youre in now, a year from now, but it may teach you for the rest of your life.

[Cnvi]

i think this is one of the hardest parts. it sounds like, perhaps to over simplify, that you broke up with her out of what you felt was necessity, as opposed to from a place of being 100% done, and so there is, or was, some hope of that reconciliation, that she would see the light, and that a reconciliation would be possible. my circumstances were very different (i was dumped), but that plagued me too. in a sort of very cold and clinical way, hope is attachment.

and on top of that, obviously, and understandably, you still love her on some level. even if you were 100% done, i imagine the prospect of her with someone else, whether for the right or wrong reasons, would sting.

its one thing to accept we have no control over it all. and in grieving, its actually a very critical thing! but it doesnt make it sting less.

Yeah, I came to terms with the fact that the relationship wasn't sustainable, she was addicted to substances and not getting any treatment for her BPD or the heavy trauma she endured in her earlier life. My codependency made me into her caretaker / enabler (as I was the financial support for everything, including substances). I walked away because I realized I needed to work on myself and try and figure out where I got lost. At the same time I wanted her to work on herself. She's gotten clean for about 5 weeks now which is amazing, I'm so proud of her, and I really hope she eventually does see a therapist and start working through all of the things that are dragging her down.

I do love her, even now. I probably will for a long time. There's so many memories I have that I'll cherish for the rest of my life (and there are so many that I will never be able to forget because of how mentally strenuous or traumatic they were). She loved me so unconditionally in a way I've never experienced, and I honestly don't know if I will again. Not that I don't think I will find love again, I know it feels that way right now but that's my fear mind in the driver's seat, it's more so that I'm curious if the love from someone without BPD will feel as encapsulating to me, I'm a bit worried of that.

I'm realizing now that I don't bode well with not being in control, I'm not sure if I was always like this or this is who I became through the relationship and trying to take care of her. I'll need to work on that.

detaching is just about helping others grieve in a healthy, mature, and complete way. its been over ten years for me now, im in a very different place (i try to be mindful of that, and we all should be of each others different circumstances and different rates of healing), but the fundamentals are the same. everyone comes here with wounds, many of which are shared and/or overlapping. the lessons and the stages of detachment help are a good guide, i found, for myself personally, and for helping others.

This cleans things up in my head, thank you.

between you and me, keep your eye on whats ahead of you. youre following a solid path. you wont recognize the pain youre in now, a year from now, but it may teach you for the rest of your life.

I really hope that this pain can subside faster than a year, even by like 50% would be bearable. I know eventually I'm going to see her with another guy and it's going to hurt more than I can even fathom right now. The only 'upside' to this is that it's given me a much broader outlook on relationships and I've started learning about codependency and other things I've been struggling with. I know I'll come out of this a stronger, more rounded person, it's just the journey that will test me.

Thanks again for all your insight.

[an-cat-dubh]

Hi Cnvi,

I'm mostly a lurker here but am going through the same thing as you, so it's indeed useful to read posts from people who are the dumper rather than the dumpee. I broke up with my boyfriend of four years three months ago and can relate to a lot of what you write.

It's hard letting go of the hope that the breakup will somehow shock them into therapy. I broke up because I gave my bf a therapy ultimatum and after several months he had not gone through with anything, despite getting angry when I told him I felt worried about this and accusing me of not trusting him when he said he would do it. When he realised I was actually breaking up with him he finally said he would do it but needed my help. I realised I had zero energy left for this. It's been three months, 1.5 month of NC and only now am I starting to properly experience my own feelings about our years together and it's been super hard. I'm seeing a therapist.

What I've recently realised is that a big part of the hurt is realising I gave all I could and more than I should have (no boundaries) and it still wasn't enough - and not only was it not enough, but it wasn't pertinent. He didn't want to change, I'm the one who obsessed over fixing him for years and spent tens if not hundreds of hours researching BPD. He didn't ask me to fix him. He was miserable because of his untreated BPD but those were his issues. Never once did I stop to wonder what I was feeling or what I needed. If I had I would have realised the reality of who he was was bad for me. I had physical symptoms because I repressed so much anxiety, fear and anger out of fear of his reactions.

I'm still in love with him, not over him and I know I might never experience the strength of love we had for each other. But I never want to be miserable like that again either.

[Cnvi]

I'm mostly a lurker here but am going through the same thing as you, so it's indeed useful to read posts from people who are the dumper rather than the dumpee. I broke up with my boyfriend of four years three months ago and can relate to a lot of what you write.

It's hard letting go of the hope that the breakup will somehow shock them into therapy. I broke up because I gave my bf a therapy ultimatum and after several months he had not gone through with anything, despite getting angry when I told him I felt worried about this and accusing me of not trusting him when he said he would do it. When he realised I was actually breaking up with him he finally said he would do it but needed my help. I realised I had zero energy left for this. It's been three months, 1.5 month of NC and only now am I starting to properly experience my own feelings about our years together and it's been super hard. I'm seeing a therapist.

Thanks for the reply an-cat-dubh, it's always good to hear from someone who's standing in similar shoes and I can pretty much relate to everything you posted. Especially the zero energy when you were actually starting to walk away, I've battled myself internally over that moment because she swore to me she would do whatever I asked of her / whatever it took if I stayed, BDP Therapy, sobriety, anything. But at that point I started understanding that she needed to do these things for herself, not for me, and I couldn't find a solution to her getting the help without using me as the crutch / reason for doing it. It just didn't feel like things would fix correctly that way, and my T walked me through the differences between what I wanted and what would likely happen in that scenario.

I'm sorry that you went through all of this, the grief, doubt and regaining your own emotions when you finally distance are all hard to work through in their own ways. Did you find things got any easier when you went NC? I pretty much went NC right away after she called me and threatened to hurt herself and I've been struggling with whether or not I made the right choice. I know it was the right choice for me, but I was worried that it might send her into a spiral. Ultimately she's going to end up hating me and I'll be the villain who abandoned her, but this was the only way out that had the least chance of her seriously injuring herself.

What I've recently realised is that a big part of the hurt is realising I gave all I could and more than I should have (no boundaries) and it still wasn't enough - and not only was it not enough, but it wasn't pertinent. He didn't want to change, I'm the one who obsessed over fixing him for years and spent tens if not hundreds of hours researching BPD. He didn't ask me to fix him. He was miserable because of his untreated BPD but those were his issues. Never once did I stop to wonder what I was feeling or what I needed. If I had I would have realised the reality of who he was was bad for me. I had physical symptoms because I repressed so much anxiety, fear and anger out of fear of his reactions.

I'm still in love with him, not over him and I know I might never experience the strength of love we had for each other. But I never want to be miserable like that again either.

I also had no boundaries, as soon as covid started I had her move in with me (mostly because I didn't want to go to her apartment and stand in the elevator when the covid hysteria was at its peak), she also didn't really want to change, but the main thing at the time was me trying to get her off drugs, I didn't even have time to research into BPD therapy because I was dedicating my entire day to trying to limit her substance intake and fighting with her when she wanted more. (Ultimately she always got it..)

And love.. yeah, that's the part I think that is the roughest. The random moments when she pops into my head and I'm flooded with the memories of her love, and the grief that I don't have it (and one day someone else will) always feel like a dagger in my chest. I had a good talk with one of my friends a week ago and she told me that I need to stop letting my fears drive my thought process on love like I have been recently. We might never find someone that loves us the way our exBPD did, but that doesn't mean that we won't find a new type of love with someone else that can feel as warm and all encompassing as what we got in our last relationship. It will probably just be a healthier form of love in a lot of ways.

Again, thanks for sharing. It really does help to hear from people who are going through similar situations. And virtual high five for all of the hard work you've put in so far, I can definitely say I know how difficult this is in many ways.

Have you started any sort of codependency support / reading through your T? If so I'd be interested to know what books.

[an-cat-dubh]

Sorry I took so long to reply!

Yes it's super hard to let go of that special connection we had. Whatever people say I feel that the intensity of the love was real. But I've realised that love is just not enough for a relationship to work. Being this close to someone and so intimately connected is what's so hard to let go of for me, because I know it won't be the same with a more balanced person, but ultimately it's not enough to balance out the constant anxiety and emotional exhaustion.

NC has been good for me and probably for him too, but I still struggle with feelings of guilt. Feeling responsible for him is so engrained in me. I try to remind myself that he is a grown up and was able to care for himself before meeting me (no matter how badly), and that enabling him and letting him depend on me so much was actually hindering his own personal growth. But I'm kind of dreading the moment we might run into each other again. I'm scared he will hate me or try to get me back. I know I can get pulled back in easily. This break up has been all rationality on my part, emotionally I did not want to leave at all.

as for codependency, I looked into CoDa but the religious/overly spiritual talk really put me off. What do you think about it?

I'm working through schema therapy. I've found my schemas of self-sacrifice/approval seeking/unrelenting standards and above all defectiveness all played into this relationship. I've been learning to try and love/listen to myself and to lean on others more, it's hard but slowly I feel like I'm getting closer to no longer feeling like I have to carry everything on my own shoulders all the time, that other people might also help me (what an alien idea ). This starts with looking hard into childhood trauma, inner child healing work etc.

Right now I feel like I'll never want to date ever again. I'm utterly exhausted and I think scared of relationships. But I'm sure once I'm done with processing everything (meaning not any time soon ), things will happen naturally.

[Cnvi]

Yes it's super hard to let go of that special connection we had. Whatever people say I feel that the intensity of the love was real. But I've realised that love is just not enough for a relationship to work. Being this close to someone and so intimately connected is what's so hard to let go of for me, because I know it won't be the same with a more balanced person, but ultimately it's not enough to balance out the constant anxiety and emotional exhaustion.

The love was definitely real, it's just that it probably wasn't healthy, as many people have talked about in posts on here the love we received was a bit overzealous in a lot of ways and it kind of makes us overlook some of the other stuff that was going on. As my T has told me multiple times, I can definitely find love that will fill my heart the same way I'm looking for / used to, but it will be a much more healthy form of love the next time (also because I know what flags to look for now).

NC has been good for me and probably for him too, but I still struggle with feelings of guilt. Feeling responsible for him is so engrained in me. I try to remind myself that he is a grown up and was able to care for himself before meeting me (no matter how badly), and that enabling him and letting him depend on me so much was actually hindering his own personal growth. But I'm kind of dreading the moment we might run into each other again. I'm scared he will hate me or try to get me back. I know I can get pulled back in easily. This break up has been all rationality on my part, emotionally I did not want to leave at all.

The guilt, ohhh the guilt. It's been getting easier with time, and the guilt seems to have less of a hold on me now, but it's definitely still there once in a while. In my case my ex has been sober since I left her (besides alcohol) and is getting her life together, she's started college and is working towards a career as a paralegal. I'm very happy to hear that she's doing so well (ultimately she is still not getting any sort of therapy for her BPD, Trauma and PTSD though) but it also hurts that this solidifies that my/our codependency on each other was definitely hindering her growth also.

as for codependency, I looked into CoDa but the religious/overly spiritual talk really put me off. What do you think about it?

I'm working through schema therapy. I've found my schemas of self-sacrifice/approval seeking/unrelenting standards and above all defectiveness all played into this relationship. I've been learning to try and love/listen to myself and to lean on others more, it's hard but slowly I feel like I'm getting closer to no longer feeling like I have to carry everything on my own shoulders all the time, that other people might also help me (what an alien idea ). This starts with looking hard into childhood trauma, inner child healing work etc.

I haven't looked into CoDa yet, mostly books by Melanie Beattie but a lot of those also go heavy into the god/faith stuff. Especially the older ones written in the 70's. I've honestly been struggling a bit to find good material on codependency outside of her books, and I have trouble relating to them.

Sounds like schema therapy is helping you a lot then! I'll have to look into that and bring it up with my T. I've noticed recently (and brought it up with my T) that I've started to recede back into myself now that I'm not in a panic state anymore, when my life was pure chaos as I was leaving the relationship I opened up and was vulnerable with all my close friends, but now that the chaos has subsided (and I'm mostly just alone, trying to work on my issues) I've been less open with a lot of the same friends. My T suggested I look into Brene Brown's books as they help with vulnerability and being more open, so I'm going to start reading those next. Best of luck on your own inner work!

Right now I feel like I'll never want to date ever again. I'm utterly exhausted and I think scared of relationships. But I'm sure once I'm done with processing everything (meaning not any time soon ), things will happen naturally.

This is where things are a little sticky for me right now, from what I've heard through mutual friends my ex is still pretty hung up on me. She's made some comments to people that she's still in love with me (comments I think she wanted them to pass along). I had been talking with a girl I had a casual thing in the past with years ago and we had talked about hanging out, I had mentioned this around the mutual friend and I'm pretty sure they mentioned it to my ex (she asked another friend about it) which sucks because I don't want to hurt her and I never ended up even meeting up with that person. But I know messaging her to explain that nothing happened is completely pointless. It's just a stupid situation I got myself into. =/

[Gemmie]

Great posts from everyone!
Thank you, truly, for sharing your experiences and allowing your genuine "self" speak and express so openly here.

I'm kinda a newbie to "our little family" and when I first found the site, I had a small burst of activity (both bemoaning my situation, as well as trying to comfort others)...but then, things just got really intense, so I had to try to distance a bit: (1) I couldn't handle feeling even *more* of what my daily life had become, and (2) I mostly just lurked cuz I didn't feel like I was healthy enough to offer any added support to others.

While I'm still NOT OK, I really found this thread inspiring! I can SO relate, I, too am the one who has pretty much checked-out and hit my wall/my limit/have become "awakened" to what has been the "truth" of our relationship - so I wanted to give thanks to you guys.

My situation in a nut(ty) shell: (hah! Sorry, couldn't resist!)

1)  25 year married to BPD hubs - No children (thank goodness!)

2)  Dr. Jekyll (thoughtful, authentic, selfless, generous, loving, attentive, talkative, supportive, giving) and, of course...

3)  Mr. Hyde (shockingly vile, verbal abuse, constant rage flares, screaming, cussing, throwing things, threats to leave, but then - within an hour or less - bounces right back like nothing happened and doesn't seem to comprehend those episodes leave me open-jawed, wounded, hurt, scared, anxious and in a state of shock - that I can't just "bounce back" from like he can).

4)  About 2 months ago - he flipped out (again) over a perceived facial expression he thought I made - but this time after cussing me out (F-bombs, "I'm done," just vicious!), he actually went to press "play" on the TV Show we were watching - my mouth was still open, my heart pounding...

5)  Something in me broke - in that moment - like I suddenly had an epiphany. I told him "No, don't even start the show. I cannot sit here. I'm going in the other room."

6)  An hour later - he demanded to talk. I declined. He immediately stormed into the garage and cut off his wedding band. (yes, he's threatened to leave many times, as well as do the "honeymoon" to make up with me after each one, only to have "wash, rinse, repeat.)

7) He showed me his cut ring. I was numb and yet realized - OMG! HE JUST SET ME FREE! I don't have to be the "Bad guy!"

8) To my shock - the repaired ring magically reappeared on his finger about a week later. I was devastated to see it. Never said a word about it - but he went and got it fixed, and put it right back on.

9)  Since then, I'm still in the house with him. I'm in the process of trying to find a new place to live. To try to maintain the "civility" and keep him as balanced as I can until then - I told him I'm doing it as "TRIAL SEPARATION."

10) He has been HONEYMOONING like I have never seen. He is desperate to keep me in the house and wants and In-House-Separation. I told him I cannot heal with continuous (indeed, INCREASED) input/interaction with him. He is being "up my ass" to where it is being annoying. Texting constantly to tell me *each time he DOESN'T get angry*, constantly asking "can I get you something? do you need anything?" etc.

So - yeah - now, because I'm STILL HERE - the "guilt-thing" is returning. I feel bad that I'll be abandoning him. I'll be leaving him. I'm the "Bad guy."

I'm working really hard with my therapist and my folks to keep in mind - above all - I have been verbally, domestically abused for TWENTY-FIVE years. He cycles - this is probably one of the most dramatic - but how long will it/can it even last?

And no matter how much he cries, and swears he will never get angry or ever raise his voice again (a cycle I've seen already a hundred times), I deserve a life that is mine, that is being lived for myself, my own discoveries, RE-finding who I am without him, and my own happiness. This life was given to me and I deserve to have some of it!

I don't my life story being entirely written about spending it on eggshells, PTSD of random rages, being viciously attacked and demeaned for no reason, anxiety whenever he comes home, depression, fear, etc.

That's what I'm working on!

And hearing you guys talk about being the one who calls it quits - I totally get it!

I thought (when he cut off his wedding band) - I WAS FREE = NOT THE BAD GUY! But then he put it back on...

Sheesh - Sorry - I didn't realize how long this just got! HAHA!

I'm crossing my fingers that he will remain honeymooning and that when I find/get my own place - he won't give it all up and become Mr. Hyde for the actual move out/separation...

(And, no, I haven't even gotten to the point of considering what the new boundaries will even be - contact/no-contact/limited/scheduled, etc...)

Just want to give a big cheers, a big hug and big shout out to you guys! Family, moderators, hosts, everyone. We need each other!   

[an-cat-dubh]

Gemmie: congrats on doing what felt right. You don't need someone to be the bad guy to leave. Knowing that this relationship is bad for you is enough. It seems you have been through a lot more or at least for a lot longer than Cnvi and I. Stay strong!

The love was definitely real, it's just that it probably wasn't healthy, as many people have talked about in posts on here the love we received was a bit overzealous in a lot of ways and it kind of makes us overlook some of the other stuff that was going on. As my T has told me multiple times, I can definitely find love that will fill my heart the same way I'm looking for / used to, but it will be a much more healthy form of love the next time (also because I know what flags to look for now).

T has been repeating the same thing to me but I'm not convinced yet. I know I can fall in love but what happened with my BPDex was... well yeah, overzealous as you say, and I loved it. I had craved that all my life. I felt fulfilled at last. Obviously that says a lot about me and my take on romantic r/s so I probably need to work on accepting that life cannot be a fairytale, and on stopping to mistake intensity whether good or bad for "true love".

The guilt, ohhh the guilt. It's been getting easier with time, and the guilt seems to have less of a hold on me now, but it's definitely still there once in a while. In my case my ex has been sober since I left her (besides alcohol) and is getting her life together, she's started college and is working towards a career as a paralegal. I'm very happy to hear that she's doing so well (ultimately she is still not getting any sort of therapy for her BPD, Trauma and PTSD though) but it also hurts that this solidifies that my/our codependency on each other was definitely hindering her growth also.

that's awesome. Let's hope she keeps up with this and is doing it for herself and not as a way to show you you can take her back. If she can learn from what went wrong with you then she can maybe move towards healing. Though I still feel that addressing core issues is necessary if one doesn't want to fall back into bad coping mechanisms... But only she can decide to one day do that. And yeah, acknowledging that getting walked over was not being a savior but indeed harmful in a way is hard to accept for our self-esteem but also a huuuge way for us to grow and not glorify our codependency.

Sounds like schema therapy is helping you a lot then! I'll have to look into that and bring it up with my T. I've noticed recently (and brought it up with my T) that I've started to recede back into myself now that I'm not in a panic state anymore, when my life was pure chaos as I was leaving the relationship I opened up and was vulnerable with all my close friends, but now that the chaos has subsided (and I'm mostly just alone, trying to work on my issues) I've been less open with a lot of the same friends. My T suggested I look into Brene Brown's books as they help with vulnerability and being more open, so I'm going to start reading those next. Best of luck on your own inner work!

if schema therapy interests you, I recommend "reinventing your life" by Jeffrey e Young. It's written as a tool anyone can use to work on themselves even without the help of a therapist. I'll check out Brene Brown, seems like it could help me as well.

This is where things are a little sticky for me right now, from what I've heard through mutual friends my ex is still pretty hung up on me. She's made some comments to people that she's still in love with me (comments I think she wanted them to pass along). I had been talking with a girl I had a casual thing in the past with years ago and we had talked about hanging out, I had mentioned this around the mutual friend and I'm pretty sure they mentioned it to my ex (she asked another friend about it) which sucks because I don't want to hurt her and I never ended up even meeting up with that person. But I know messaging her to explain that nothing happened is completely pointless. It's just a stupid situation I got myself into. =/

doesn't sound to me like you did anything wrong. You have the right to talk to people and exes. It may even help her moving on. I suspect my ex is now seeing someone and I think the r/s might have started soon after he realised I would not come back. I had told him I kept hoping that after some time in therapy and work on himself maybe we could give it another go, but that was probably not definitive enough for him, and he probably panicked as he cannot bear being alone and found someone else. It would hurt like hell but if I get confirmation that he is indeed seeing that woman, it will show me that he couldn't give me what I needed (self work) and I can foresee that after the mind-numbing pain of imagining him being with someone else and not even wanting (or rather: not being able) to try for me, the definitiveness of it will help me move on. So far, four months on, I keep second guessing myself and it's hard.

You will move on at some point and she will know it. I think your guilt here might be at least part codependency. I say that but I of course have resisted seeing anyone so far, mostly because I'm not ready and still kind of hung up on my ex but also for fear it would hurt him. Do as I say not as I do... .

[Cnvi]

T has been repeating the same thing to me but I'm not convinced yet. I know I can fall in love but what happened with my BPDex was... well yeah, overzealous as you say, and I loved it. I had craved that all my life. I felt fulfilled at last. Obviously that says a lot about me and my take on romantic r/s so I probably need to work on accepting that life cannot be a fairytale, and on stopping to mistake intensity whether good or bad for "true love".

I know what you mean, the more I try and search into why I became so blind to so many things throughout the relationship a lot of it boils down to how all encompassing the love from my ex was. There was safety and security in it, in some ways I was confident that she wasn't going to leave me for someone else and I never realized how important that security was to me, or how insecure I was about that part of my past relationships.

that's awesome. Let's hope she keeps up with this and is doing it for herself and not as a way to show you you can take her back. If she can learn from what went wrong with you then she can maybe move towards healing. Though I still feel that addressing core issues is necessary if one doesn't want to fall back into bad coping mechanisms... But only she can decide to one day do that. And yeah, acknowledging that getting walked over was not being a savior but indeed harmful in a way is hard to accept for our self-esteem but also a huuuge way for us to grow and not glorify our codependency.

I keep flip flopping back and forth lately with small bursts of longing for her and missing the relationship now that she seems to be on a better track. But I have to keep reminding myself just how out of control the relationship was at its lows, and that I'm idealizing the highs. Regardless I really do hope one day she will get proper treatment for her BPD, and especially her trauma as I think that is a bigger anchor weighing her down than anything. And I'm so damn proud of her that she's sobered up and is on a good course in life again. But there's the voice in the back of my head thinking what happens when she gets stressed with too much school work and starts spiraling. Maybe because she's sober and driven now she can overcome it? But I'm sure if she did some DBT it would help her immensely.

if schema therapy interests you, I recommend "reinventing your life" by Jeffrey e Young. It's written as a tool anyone can use to work on themselves even without the help of a therapist. I'll check out Brene Brown, seems like it could help me as well.

I just grabbed the audiobook of Reinventing Your Life, I'll start on it after Daring Greatly by Brene Brown!

doesn't sound to me like you did anything wrong. You have the right to talk to people and exes. It may even help her moving on. I suspect my ex is now seeing someone and I think the r/s might have started soon after he realised I would not come back. I had told him I kept hoping that after some time in therapy and work on himself maybe we could give it another go, but that was probably not definitive enough for him, and he probably panicked as he cannot bear being alone and found someone else. It would hurt like hell but if I get confirmation that he is indeed seeing that woman, it will show me that he couldn't give me what I needed (self work) and I can foresee that after the mind-numbing pain of imagining him being with someone else and not even wanting (or rather: not being able) to try for me, the definitiveness of it will help me move on. So far, four months on, I keep second guessing myself and it's hard.

Yeah within a week of me breaking up with my ex there were already guys messaging her, I know for a fact she's been on at least one date with a guy I know. She's a very beautiful woman so it's not a surprise that she would be asked out so fast (I actually remember her using that as a threat when I ended things, mentioning that several people were asking her out when we started seeing eachother, at least I can sort of laugh about it now..) there was a lot of pain in discovering that, but there was also a lot of self reflection in how I was going to handle that pain. Initially when the relationship was ending my go-to was drink / do some drug to numb myself and stop thinking about the painful thoughts, in honesty this is a habit I definitely picked up from my ex. But over the past few months I've started learning to just sit with my pain or fear instead of using a short term band-aid that won't actually fix anything.

Also I pretty much second guess myself every day, multiple times a day, so don't feel too bad about that.

You will move on at some point and she will know it. I think your guilt here might be at least part codependency. I say that but I of course have resisted seeing anyone so far, mostly because I'm not ready and still kind of hung up on my ex but also for fear it would hurt him. Do as I say not as I do... .

Oh my guilt is definitely part codependency lmao, there's a part of me that doesn't want to let go. That wants everything to be a magical fairy tale world where we can be together and there won't be a list of a hundred things that will make the relationship super toxic again. There's also some level of fear that my ex will cut/hurt herself again if she finds out I'm seeing someone. But I guess she's heard that I'm seeing someone now, and ultimately I cannot stop her if she does hurt herself no matter how much it hurts to try and say that sentence out loud.

Honestly that girl reached out to me and I kind of confided in her about the relationship because I remembered she had an ex that threatened to kill himself for months and she couldn't break up with him / didn't know what to do. She told me she's in an open relationship now and said if I ever wanted to hang out her door was open, as friends or something else. Part of me just thought if I had some sort of other connection then I wouldn't be so hung up / stuck in place right now. Unfortunately, COVID outbreaks made the restrictions even more strict where I live and I'm unable to travel the 2h drive it would be to see her now. Maybe it's for the best?

[an-cat-dubh]

There was safety and security in it, in some ways I was confident that she wasn't going to leave me for someone else and I never realized how important that security was to me, or how insecure I was about that part of my past relationships.

yeah I have a similar thing, well, kind of worse: I grew up feeling only people with problems could love me. Been working on this in therapy. The gap between reality and self image is pretty mind boggling sometimes.

But I'm sure if she did some DBT it would help her immensely.

would you consider going back to her if she started doing DBT?
Initially I broke up because my boyfriend wouldn't go to therapy, he told me I "didn't accept him the way he was" - which is true. I tried to explain to him so many times that it wasn't against him, that I needed emotional security because I was traumatised by stuff he had done in the past (which he admitted to), that it would do him good, etc, but because of his black/white way of thinking he felt too threatened. When I finally broke up he said he would go, he was trying anything he could to make me stay I think. My gut told me he wouldn't stick to it and the break up needed to be real, I felt he needed to be on his own to do the work or he would keep relying on me and not do it. I told him that I hoped we would be together again one day if he worked on himself.

I contacted him again a couple of weeks ago after 2 and a half months of no contact. I gave in. I told myself I'd just see if he had started therapy and if he had maybe I could give him another chance (this is our 1st break up). He has basically moved on. He doesn't want to hear from me anymore. He posts photos of himself with lots of people and a girl on his social media. I'm now realising the moment he stopped messaging me constantly was probably when he met her. I'm finally starting to feel anger rather than doubt and guilt. I felt like I was the one who was broken up with in a way. There is probably a part of ego, mostly the fact that I wasn't even worth him trying to get better. That I tried so hard and gave him so much and he could/would not reciprocate.

I know it's not about my worth but about his fear and inability to take care of himself. I overestimated him thinking he could help himself, or overstimated myself thinking I could move on without clinging to hope. Even if he went to therapy now and we tried again, things would not magically get better. It's so insanely hard not to hold on to that thought. I know it's ridiculous and magical thinking to keep believing that everything would be better if he saw a shrink. He doesn't want to. He couldn't handle the pain of me breaking up with him so found someone else to survive. That in itself is proof that being with him would not be a good idea. I see it rationally. Feelings haven't caught up. I'm so tired of being in constant emotional pain. Well I'm learning the hard way I suppose.

She told me she's in an open relationship now and said if I ever wanted to hang out her door was open, as friends or something else. Part of me just thought if I had some sort of other connection then I wouldn't be so hung up / stuck in place right now. Unfortunately, COVID outbreaks made the restrictions even more strict where I live and I'm unable to travel the 2h drive it would be to see her now. Maybe it's for the best?

do you feel like you're moving forward? People seem to say rebounds do help... I have mixed feelings about this. So far I've been feeling it's too early for me. But then maybe at some point you need to push yourself a bit?