I Broke Free After 19 Years - But - A Dilema

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

As many of you know I finally broke free and did the necessary practical things to secure my freedom.

However - trouble is brewing.

My ex is busy buying accomodation in the city where our son is studying and she fully expects that he will be moving in with her over the summer and into the last 2 years of his course.

He has communicated to me that he wont be doing this. At the same time he is not being open with her about his wishes. I have offered to accomodate him over the summer and he is happy to come and stay with me - but I dont know what the consequences will be. She will certainly be devastated if she cannot do what she wants to do - accomodate him and look after his needs. Its virtually her raison detre for life. She will see it as a horrible betrayal by me and him if it does not work out this way for her. I wondered in fact whether I should have offered to accomodate him - as he may have had to go and stay with her over the summer if no other option presented itself. He did in fact say that he prefers not to live with her.

To make matters worse I  have heard from him that she is in danger of spending every last penny she has on a property and wants to borrow some of his money to complete a purchase. I dont like this at all. I already advised her to buy at such a price that would leave her with a buffer of money.

She has some income from me - but not much else.

OK I am moving on and glad I am free - but there remain issues.

Please advise.

[MrRight]

As many of you know I finally broke free and did the necessary practical things to secure my freedom.

However - trouble is brewing.

My ex is busy buying accomodation in the city where our son is studying and she fully expects that he will be moving in with her over the summer and into the last 2 years of his course.

He has communicated to me that he wont be doing this. At the same time he is not being open with her about his wishes. I have offered to accomodate him over the summer and he is happy to come and stay with me - but I dont know what the consequences will be. She will certainly be devastated if she cannot do what she wants to do - accomodate him and look after his needs. Its virtually her raison detre for life. She will see it as a horrible betrayal by me and him if it does not work out this way for her. I wondered in fact whether I should have offered to accomodate him - as he may have had to go and stay with her over the summer if no other option presented itself. He did in fact say that he prefers not to live with her.

To make matters worse I  have heard from him that she is in danger of spending every last penny she has on a property and wants to borrow some of his money to complete a purchase. I dont like this at all. I already advised her to buy at such a price that would leave her with a buffer of money.

She has some income from me - but not much else.

OK I am moving on and glad I am free - but there remain issues.

Please advise.

[GaGrl]

The sooner your wife purchases and settled into a reasonably priced accommodation, the better. The sooner your divorce settlement is finalized, the better. You cannot continue to find her. You already have been more than generous by hitting her the proceeds of the house sale.

How competent has your wife been in managing money over the years? Can she create and love within a budget? You can encourage her to meet with a financial advisor to help her with this. You do not need to take this on to yoursrlf.

She might be transferring her control needs from you to your son. Your son must be careful not to be caught up in her neediness. If she can buy a flat at a manageable price and move into it, your son can know she has a place to live while he continues living his university life (as well he should).

Stay away from her.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi MrR-

This was in the cards all along, but it canNOT matter.  And no, you did NOT do wrong by inviting your son to spend his summer months with you.  Your son deserves the same peace and safe space that you’ve always deserved.  He deserves his OWN life - free from her control.  Just like you’ve  always deserved.  This is NOT being “selfish”.

Your exW is the selfish one here.

And Neither you NOR your son owe her your lives.  You’ve both already given way more than enough.  Please MrR, please see that.

Therapy has always been available to your exW.  Alternative ways of behaving have always been available to your exW.  This has been her choice.  She needs to stand or fall on her own now.  Without further money or wasting time and energy from either you OR your son.

And the fact that she’s now digging at your young adult son for money ought to show you how deeply narcissistic she is.  No two ways about that.  She cares NOTHING about his wellbeing.  Just like she cares nothing about yours.

This makes me angry.

As for you, my friend.  If you want to lead your son through this, and actually exit this yourself, Please call an attorney on Monday and finish this thing off. 

From what I can tell, you have been MORE than fair from a financial standpoint with the house sale.  This woman will bleed you dry... and that won’t matter a whit to her.  She’s doing it in order to talk you into moving back in with her “to save money”.   So that you can “rebuild financially”; right after she destroys you.  Because her process / plan now is to throw you into financial ruin with her constant “needs” and money asks.  And then there won’t be enough for your dear son to complete his education.  And she does NOT CARE.

Can you see this?  She’s got an end goal.  And it’s to have you go back to her because of money problems that she’s beginning to create NOW.

SO PLEASE.., see this for exactly what it is and get an attorney ASAP.  Save yourself and your son.  You’re the only one who can.

I don’t mean to be harsh.  But I understand this behavior only too too well.  I sure wish I didn’t, but I do.

Warmly,
Gems

[MrRight]

Thank you both.

I understood - I suppose I just wanted confirmation.

[Rev]

Thank you both.

I understood - I suppose I just wanted confirmation.

I think GEMS is spot on - good lawyers (the ones who understand who the human turbulence of situations like this and show a certain empathy) can be rather therapeutic in that they A) see blind spots B) navigate the traffic C) get you to where you need to be regardless - giving you the space to tend to your personal affairs.

I'd like to suggest that now is where you might be attentive to your son and your mutual relationship - father / son - man to man.  There is a difference now between the two of you in talking about the woman you both have a relationship with.

She is your ex.

She is his mother.

You were in a relationship with her by choice.

He did not have a relationship with her by choice.

As he grows into an adult - he will inevitably need to make a choice - regardless of the circumstances. It's part of the natural maturing process.  That your ex is the way she is doesn't change things so much as it makes things more complex, more layered.

So ... be open to the conversations he wants to have (I have no doubt you are already doing things - I am just affirming this for extra measure) and answer his questions honestly, affirming his right to choose what he feels he needs for himself.

I am sure, because I feel it in your writing, that you are an awesome dad.

Rev

[MrRight]

I do have a cold fear about the events that are unfolding.

The situation is that my son wants to come and stay with me in the summer but he is not prepared to inform his mother NOW - he wants to leave it until the last moment - after she has completed a property purchase and is ready to move in (with him she thinks).

On the day when she thinks they will be moving in together - in fact he will be with me in my flat and she will be moving in on her own.

 I understand why he is not informing her in advance as he probably suspects she could create quite a lot of trouble for him over it. At the same time - it is not fair on her not to inform her what his intentions are.

I wont inform her of course but this is an absolutely horrible situation. I have agreed to come and collect him and move him into my flat literally 2 days before he is supposed to be moving in with her.

Just externalising - I know there is no solution.

[Rev]

I do have a cold fear about the events that are unfolding.

Just externalising - I know there is no solution.

Right ... right. (get it? - hope that gave you a smile.)

I'll be thinking about you both.

Rev

[Skip]

I wont inform her of course but this is an absolutely horrible situation. I have agreed to come and collect him and move him into my flat literally 2 days before he is supposed to be moving in with her.

I would tell him that he has to inform her now as a condition of moving in with you. Regardless of who she is, this is character lesson for your son. Lies of omission are still lies.

I know that's not what he wants to hear... and it will be messy...

[MrRight]

I would tell him that he has to inform her now as a condition of moving in with you. Regardless of who she is, this is character lesson for your son. Lies of omission are still lies.

I know that's not what he wants to hear... and it will be messy...

Thanks Skip - I think you are probably right.

I presented him with a poor example by leaving my wife without informing her in advance. But I agree that what you have indicated is the correct thing to do.

I hope it does not leave him feeling rejected by me - and it may be that he decides to make his own arrangements with accomodation - or it may mean he decides to live with her after all against his own wishes - but I dont see any other option but to put it forward as a condition.

[MrRight]

If anyone has any input on why Skip's solution is not the best way forward please comment - as I am going to lay down that condition to my son - in the most loving way I can manage - very soon.

The stakes are high on this one.

[Rev]

If anyone has any input on why Skip's solution is not the best way forward please comment - as I am going to lay down that condition to my son - in the most loving way I can manage - very soon.

The stakes are high on this one.

I see something different... Is your ex capable of emotionally abusing your son?  If so, the primary goal is to stay safe. Abuse victims ought to be given every opportunity to do what ever it takes - within reason of course - to protect themselves.

The word "condition" - please discern how you are using it - I don't want to read too much into this - only you know the situation, only he can say how he's feeling.   My own counter transference here is that in this latest exchange there's an element of asking this boy, who is about to essentially turn his back on his mother, to "man up."

One way or another, forgive yourself for the "mistakes" or "bad examples" you think you gave him - and remember the most important lesson you did teach him - there are limits on how we let others treat us - and discerning that for a long time to make sure that we don't lash out to make things worse is part of that lesson. You've been a great dad to him.

Rev.

[GaGrl]

I'm leaning toward seeing if there is an alternate for your son's lodging this summer.

You know your STBX will have difficulty living alone. You know her alternate to you will be your son. And you know that having your son put in a position of substituting for you is unhealthy for him.

Can your son find a summer project, internship, or travel opportunity outside your STBX's city?

[MrRight]

She is capable of criticising him if she thinks he is not pulling his weight. And he has complained about the meal sizes. He likes to do his own thing - and obviously living with her it will be more difficult to do as he pleases. If he wants to take a midnight walk with a friend - she will have something to say about that. They spent a year together in a flat in his first university year and it was mainly a question of his freedom - but then he was under 16. He is over 18 now and could reasonably expect more freedom. A bigger issue is that he has not told her he wants to be a pilot (rather than a designer) and this is something she may not approve of. He wants to learn to fly over the summer. But he wouldn't be the first young person to take a professional path that a parent did not approve of.

I don't have any safeguarding concerns for him if he lives with her - I just think he will find it inconvenient and limiting. On the other hand he will have free accomodation over his last 2 study years.

Objectively speaking I feel that it is too big a deception to perpetrate and I would need to be a party to it. I think he will have to tell her as frankly it's the only decent thing to do. My situation was different as her spouse as I was tied to her via marriage and practical obligations via the house - and he would be free to come and go as he pleases in a way that frankly I was not.

I will let him know my opinion and take it from there.

[MrRight]

I'm leaning toward seeing if there is an alternate for your son's lodging this summer.

You know your STBX will have difficulty living alone. You know her alternate to you will be your son. And you know that having your son put in a position of substituting for you is unhealthy for him.

Can your son find a summer project, internship, or travel opportunity outside your STBX's city?

In these covid restricted times? Maybe not.

[Gemsforeyes]

I’m sorry.  I have fear for your son, even more than I feared for you.  Because he is so young.

I mean no disrespect for anyone here, at all.  And lying, even by omission isn’t “good”.  But when severe abuse, whether physical OR emotional, or both, is strongly at play, sometimes “lying” by omission is the ONLY way to safely exit.  This was the case with you, my friend.  And it has been the case with many members here.  It was the case with me.

I don’t believe your stbexw suffers from mere BPD.  From what I see, she has some very strong traits of NPD as well; and that was the case with my exBF (6.5 years).  And my ex-H (19 years).  That’s a very destructive mix.

I was finally able to get away from my exBF just over a year go.  He is 63 and is extremely enmeshed with his mother.  I have never encountered any relationship like theirs... ever.  And it created internal battles inside him and his ongoing explosive episodes.  But he’ll never be able to reconcile his challenges.  He has zero contact with his three grown children and cannot maintain ANY relationship with a lover, a friend or a sibling. None.

I just believe that placing conditions on your son has the potential to have a huge lifelong negative impact on him.  You are the one safe space for him.  I’ve seen it firsthand.  

Please think this through a bit more.  His mental and physical wellbeing are way more important than a “lie” by omission because of the utter failure of your stbexW to ever care about another human being.

Furthermore, sometimes the horrid behavior of someone literally forces us to briefly place our morals to the side in order to provide a safe haven for ourselves and those we love.  How she may see this, or “feel” about this canNOT matter.  She’s been placed first for far too long.  To the severe detriment of everyone and everything else.

I’m sorry.

Gems

[MrRight]

Thank you for your views everyone.

As you say it is my call and only I know all the circumstances.

I have spoken with my son and asked him to tell his mother asap that he wants to come and stay with me over the summer. He did say he would and said he would tell her Monday. He is adamant he does not want to live with her. I said that is fine and I am looking forward to having him.

I am convinced this is the right way forward - there is no reason why he should not tell her. He is not living with her right now and only sees her once or twice per week.

The property purchase she is making is not concluded and this news could change her plans in some way but not sure how exactly. She may decide to stay in rented accomodation for now.

She will no doubt be in touch with me when he tells her and I will just say he asked if he could come and stay with me and I said yes.

Will keep you all informed.

[Lucky Jim]

She will no doubt be in touch with me when he tells her and I will just say he asked if he could come and stay with me and I said yes.

Hey Mr. R, Your proposed response to her sounds fine, but we both know that those w/BPD often behave in unreasonable and irrational ways.  I suggest you decline to engage in the drama that is likely to ensue.  She will probably try to manipulate you and/or your son through F-O-G (fear, obligation or guilt) in an attempt to control the outcome.  In my view, both of you should be prepared for some type of emotional outburst, with associated arm-twisting.

LuckyJim

[MrRight]

Hey Mr. R, Your proposed response to her sounds fine, but we both know that those w/BPD often behave in unreasonable and irrational ways.  I suggest you decline to engage in the drama that is likely to ensue.  She will probably try to manipulate you and/or your son through F-O-G (fear, obligation or guilt) in an attempt to control the outcome.  In my view, both of you should be prepared for some type of emotional outburst, with associated arm-twisting.

LuckyJim

I think you are right and I am ready. I know what to say. I will say he is over 18 and he asked me if he could come and live with me over the summer and I said yes - as long as you inform your mother.

What else is there to say? She will have to learn to live with it.

[GaGrl]

The term for exaggerated bad behavior when a person w/PD comes up against a firm boundary is "extinction burst." He very prepared for her very first manipulations and behaviors - - threats of suicide, hospital, rages, screaming, repeated phone calls and texts, threats of other types. If either you or your son are in her presence, she has been known to lock you in, correct?

How confident are you that your son can take a stand with her?

[MrRight]

The term for exaggerated bad behavior when a person w/PD comes up against a firm boundary is "extinction burst." He very prepared for her very first manipulations and behaviors - - threats of suicide, hospital, rages, screaming, repeated phone calls and texts, threats of other types. If either you or your son are in her presence, she has been known to lock you in, correct?

How confident are you that your son can take a stand with her?

Well I complied with her in order to achieve an end - sell the family home.

She no longer has a prison in which to incarcerate anybody. He is currently living in university accomodation and I am living in my own flat. I understand he plans to send her an email to inform her on Monday that he is coming to live with me in the summer. From there he has no plans to see her. He has in fact said to me in the past "dont fall for her tricks" - so he is aware what she is capable of. I do not expect her to threaten suicide but I expect that she will try to put pressure on me. I will simply tell her that if he doesnt live with me he will arrange his own accomodation, something that will be costly and potentially isolating for him - and so living with me is the correct thing to do setting aside her disappointment.

Yes we are both ready for her threats etc. Suicide? She thinks too much of herself for that.