How much of the work problem am I causing?

[truthdevotee]

I did two solid hours at work this morning. Since then, it's been hell :-( Feeling all my emotional wounds. Doing best to stay self-loving and not reactive. But I haven't done very well.

It started in the normal way. My son, 2 years old, banging at my work door and screaming. Should I leave him their to be sad on his own? His mum didn't come to help him, and he probably wouldn't calm down even if she did. So, I left my work room to help him.

I ended up getting pulled into cooking lunch (at 1030am), and a conversation started about next week and the week after, because our time in this holiday home finishes at the end of this week.

This is when the wounding came up. Since I don't know my own thoughts/feelings/perspectives very well, since I struggle to listen to my interior intuition and trust my feelings, since my pwBPD's voice is so confident... I'm pulled around... she said she'll ask her parents for help next week "if" I pay for a holiday the week after. I felt hesitant about the holiday because I don't want to displease my boss by booking a holiday that could easily be cancelled (since COVID-19 restrictions can be easily extended by the government and thus hotel holidays cancelled. This inner conflict caused me so much pain, as I expressed it to my pwBPD who fell into her BPD behavior. Again I found myself "fighting" to work, defending that I can't be responsible to look after the boys, arguing with her that she is incorrect in her perception that "she is not responsible to look after the eldest boy even though she is on maternity," etc. Here I was, again, after so many times, fighting for my right to work and bring home money to the family, to feel I'm working my job 8 hours a day as I'm contracted to do... etc. And then my numerous mistakes due to my pain and stress; coming across as critical (e.g. I said she's focusing on things today rather than looking after the kids, such as doing the dishwasher twice and washing machine, cleaning the holiday house - of course I appreciate all this, but I came across as judgmental because it seemed that due to her busyness, she might not have been able to properly focus on childcare), speaking out of pain with tension and hurt, threatening to quit my job, telling her that I'll quit my job and she go find some work, and I'll look after the boys, etc. I end up sounding so critical and harsh towards her, and of course she has no understanding about what I'm going through, so she ended up locking the door and crying.

It's so hard. And I know this is my ego speaking and not my Spirit. I just want to allow the self-expression, that it's so hard and feels unfair that I have to fight to have my job and to feel I'm in my integrity by working my job properly and performing well. Yet, am I just people pleasing to my boss and colleagues? Am I too inflexible by saying I should work 8 hours a day? Should I just "accept" that I do 5 or 6? How revealing should I be to my boss who is very supportive? I just "wish" that my wife could look after the children in happiness, honoring her part on maternity leave... argh. :-(

I'm not indulging in self-pity, just letting the one in me in pain express. I had my first online therapy session yesterday with the therapist that my company provides. It was really really good, and she is skilled in body based psychotherapy and mindfulness, which we'll be focusing on. She asked me to "feel" where I feel self-love in my body, it was really profound and she taught me about boundaries. I have all this new learning in my mind and I'm focusing on feeling that self-love now. It's hard for my wife partly because of COVID-19, partly because of all her emotional issues. It's hard for everyone around the world with COVID-19, which my therapist said I can focus on and just "experience" the difficulty without judgement. I just feel so much pain when "I'm supposed to be working" and I'm not due to heated chats with my pwBPD, looking after the boys, cooking, etc.

Perhaps I'm not surrendering this properly to my Higher Power? Perhaps I need to be more relaxed and chilled out and just do what I can at work? I don't know... I don't know... is it just a mere "mental program" that makes me so driven to work 8 hours a day and therefore so touchy and reactive about this topic with my pwBPD?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

I'm glad you responded to your child, yet I'm curious for more details there.

It sounds like it turned into a lot more than giving quick comfort.   Can you share how a hug turned into making lunch?

Lots of times it's better to give a hug and then two options for the child (either one of which works for you).

Hey junior would you rather work on this puzzle for 30 minutes or color in this book?  Daddy will come back out and check on you then.

You raised a bunch of other issues..I'll give them some thought.

Best,

FF

[truthdevotee]

I'm glad you responded to your child, yet I'm curious for more details there.

It sounds like it turned into a lot more than giving quick comfort.   Can you share how a hug turned into making lunch?

Lots of times it's better to give a hug and then two options for the child (either one of which works for you).

Hey junior would you rather work on this puzzle for 30 minutes or color in this book?  Daddy will come back out and check on you then.

You raised a bunch of other issues..I'll give them some thought.

Best,

FF

Hi FF,

So I picked up the little one and carried him downstairs. My wife at that moment was talking about how busy she is, how stressed, how the older one is a little bit sick, etc. I had agreed to make lunch but would normally do it later on; I expected she'd go out in the morning and come back for lunch. The chat with W kept me down there for longer, and I said in my own mind, "well if she's still here and I'm here already nearly 15 minutes, I'll get lunch prepared on the stove." I did that. And I continued to get pulled in to the discussion about "next week and the week after." My own lack of executive functioning, then the triggering of my own issues, combined with my feeling of wanting to help... it just resulted several hours of job missed. I haven't gotten started yet. All those other issues about the battle with my work and the same issues continuously coming up for years... my frustration with my W, is within me... I'm allowing myself some time to practice self-love and let go the pain now. My W went out with the boys.

Something in me is angry about it all and frustrated. Tired. This usually comes up for me when I get deeply frustrated... I just gotta let it go (again)...

So in essence, the issue was getting pulled into my W's "stuff" as well as the desire that my boys are happy... the trigger for me leaving my "office" in the first place was the little one crying outside my door. I'm certain my W and I are passing on so many emotional issues onto our kids (something I never wanted of course), so perhaps my younger son struggles with my absence and need to work, because of that. Sometimes he accepts it and goes off to play, sometimes he continues crying if I try to continue working. The big issue is when the pressure gets to me and I start to blame my W - never a good thing.

[truthdevotee]

I never mentioned this on the forum... the same pattern was occuring at the end of 2019. I had just been promoted at work and was due to go on a two day business trip. My W started telling me she won't look after our kids and "you better not go" and I ended up asking for sick leave from my psychiatrist. I was off sick for 3 months, which of course suited my wife well. I then got a new job with more money at the beginning of 2020, in the same month the pandemic started.

The pressure of a new job of course brings new expectations... it's worked out well, I performed well, and only did like 6 hours a day... at least that's my impression. It could be that I'm so narcissistic and obsessive that I'm not even aware of what's "normal" or not. My W would tell me that I work so quickly that it doesn't matter if I do 5 or 6 hours a day - she said in that time you get more done than your colleagues. I don't know if this is true or not and it didn't make me feel good, it just seemed like an excuse for her to obtain more help from me.

COVID-19 has rendered the boundary b/w work and home obscure for so many people. Since me and my W have boundary issues anyway, and that we probably transfer those onto the boys, it's such a volatile family system.

I don't feel "work obsessed" or a workaholic; I genuinely want to be within my integrity and work an honest day at work, and come "home" to the kids to be with them and support my W. I want to be the best Dad, employee and husband I can be.

But I can't blame COVID-19 for all the issues; as I mentioned above, I got that promotion in my old company and was supposed to go on a business trip, and my W was angry because that particular promotion didn't bring more money to my pocket. In the end, it all worked out perfectly because I enjoy my current job and company much more. However, even getting this new job was an issue for my W; she was extremely angry with me for starting in the new job when I did - she wanted me to have more time on sick leave at home with her and boys all day...

The truth is, I like being a Dad, and I would volunteer to be off full time with them. She doesn't believe me, and when I say this to her she feels demeaned and judged. I understand that. I've genuinely offered to change roles several times over the last few years... and she always feels judged when I offer it. That's understandable... on the other hand, I'm fighting to work, fighting to fulfil my role, and I'm tired and sometimes I feel I should just quit the job so she can see what it's like with no money coming in.

She always says "it's going to get better in a few months." There is truth to that, so perhaps I should be more patient? We have two rambunctious young lads 3 years old and 2 years old, they are a handful, but the older one gets easier and easier. He's nearly 4 now and he's had over 1 year at school. Once the 2 year old goes through all that, perhaps my W and I will have an easier time in general. So... perhaps I'm not patient enough, too reactive, and not understanding enough. She may have BPD, yes, but she's also a stressed out mum, a perfectionist, and has no support system around her other than me (partly because she refuses other options). Her FOO are 3 hours a way and not particularly helpful, and she dislikes my FOO who live in another country.

[truthdevotee]

I realize I'm writing so much FF, and half of it might be difficult to follow. There are so many factors involved. It's a challenge to write them all quickly.

It seems that the best possible thing I can be doing is surrendering to my Higher Power, practicing meditation and mindfulness, and living through the experience with equanimity, without trying to find "right" and "wrong" or even change anything.

I have been so stressed out today I can't concentrate. I'll log off for now and try to self-soothe.

God bless you, FF.

[truthdevotee]

The problem with my mind is that anything and everything can be true. I can bend to what anybody thinks because what they feel and believe makes sense to me. My focus is so much on the outside rather than the inside.

Therefore, I go into self-doubt and consider that my wife might have the "correct" perspective. It might be that the whole "work" issue is driven by my OCD, my lack of protectiveness towards her and our family unit, my desire to please my manager and colleagues too much, etc. My reactivity related to ADHD although much more under control than in the past, causes her to also react. This kind of open-mindedness, seeing her "polarity" led me to even stop contact my FOO because what she sees "may be true."

I don't even know what this is for; what the learning curve really is. I used to think that it was to align with her as much as possible for the sake of a stable family unit. It did actually become more stable. I would work in the horrible underground floor in my big apartment building using mobile data. I would stop contacting my FOO because she thought I'm still a mamas boy (which I might be, because I lack a sense of self to such a major degree). Now I'm trying to "find myself" and listen to inner truths and honor them (even if I can't be 100% sure they're helpful), life is getting very rocky. 

[formflier]

Dude...I wish I had more time to read your posts in detail today.  I promise I'll get back to them soon..late tonight or tomorrow.

For now... and I'll challenge you to be especially kind to yourself today.

I remember experiencing what you appear to be experiencing.  You get some insight and some time and then are flooded with thoughts...it's only natural and HELPFUL to write those things down.

Gives us a sense of where you are at.

Keep writing...keep loving your family...focus on being kind.  The rest will fall into place.

Best,

FF

[truthdevotee]

Dude...I wish I had more time to read your posts in detail today.  I promise I'll get back to them soon..late tonight or tomorrow.

For now... and I'll challenge you to be especially kind to yourself today.

I remember experiencing what you appear to be experiencing.  You get some insight and some time and then are flooded with thoughts...it's only natural and HELPFUL to write those things down.

Gives us a sense of where you are at.

Keep writing...keep loving your family...focus on being kind.  The rest will fall into place.

Best,

FF

Thanks FF 

[khibomsis]

TD, I remember growing up with my highfunctioning uNBPD mom sitting me at the desk beside her and she would work while I "read" in little book. She would then fulsomely praise my work. OK, I was a bit older at the time, 8 or so, but it paid off well in later life, I excelled at school and my career. No doubt it took her a few years to train me to extend my concentration span beyond a few minutes.  Similarly I can remember "helping" her with the housework. A two year old and water will stay busy for hours.

I guess what I'm saying is that at the end of the day, parenting and work is complex but if you take it seriously in its own right ( i.e. not in relation to your wife at all), you will do better and your child will benefit.  I think what makes it hard is that in some ways you are a single father of three kids, which would be difficult for anybody. No wonder you feel overwhelmed!

The problem is that the kids learn from the way your wife is treated. Bad behaviour gets attention. You need to re-train yourself to reward good behaviour instead. Try not to get "sucked into" bad behaviour, but remove yourself from the situation and work instead.  You won't always get it right, especially when you are tired and drained, but practice makes perfect.

There is nothing wrong with doing justice to your work. Who knows, you might even get in line for another promotion when you have sorted your home situation out

On another note, I have always found it fatal to take my laptop with me on holiday. One cannot do justice to either work or rest that way. Represent to your wife that until you have caught up at work and can take real leave - you also need a break - there will be no holidays. And then distract her with something shiny.

 

[khibomsis]

Forgot to mention that yesterday I also lost it with my expwBPD. One can't be calm and tool-using all the time. Nothing to be done but forgive oneself and move on. Today all sunny weather. It is what it is,

Fantastic that you are in therapy!

 

[truthdevotee]

Hi khibomsis,
Thanks... I got too overwhelmed. If I'd been conscious and not pulled into the discussion I could have avoided the whole situation.
Practicing self-kindness. Yeah, it's really great to have support from a therapist now.
I'll focus on not rewarding negative behavior in general.
It seems hard to "escape" when I need to, but I am causing this issue somewhat and aggravating my W which then triggers her issues. Not good.
Need to keep moving forward one day at a time. Hopefully my older son can get back to school soon as the restrictions are lifted. And I hope I can get my younger son into a private kindergarten from April to August, which will relieve my W of some stress. My younger son would then continue in another school in September.

The fact is, I've made choices which kept me in the situation. I came to this remote location because my W refused to look after the boys in our smaller apartment. This has made me unable to physically separate work and home as all public spaces are closed. I can sit in my car but after 2 hours in the car it gets very uncomfortable.

I realize I'm posting about the same issue now for a long time... I've made choices that have led to the pattern being prolonged. I need to take responsibility for that.

Next 4 days I have off, and next week a 4 day work week. I'll figure out what to do and focus on hearing my intuition and allowing it to be my guide.

[truthdevotee]

My W is demanding this holiday the week after next.

I don't really want to go.

I feel controlled.

I also feel guilty if I refuse it.

I feel scared what will happen if I say the holiday won't happen. It can result in her refusing to look after the children next week.

If that occurs, the only way for me to manage it would be to rent another Airbnb and hire a full time nanny which my two year old would struggle with as he hasn't had much contact yet with the outside world.

My W refuses to let anyone in our home to help. I said I'll pay for a spa holiday for her alone and have a nanny at our home for the week, making it easier for our two year old as he'd be in his home environment.

I feel like the smoothest way forward is to do the holiday for my W's sake.

[truthdevotee]

YOU ARE NOT STUCK Up to now, you may have felt stuck with a life you can’t control and can’t change. If you are trying to control the BP/NP, you are quite right—you are stuck. When you realize how much you can change by focusing on your own behavior and your own thoughts, the picture changes dramatically. You are not stuck. In fact, as an adult, everything in your life is there because you choose it, you allow it, or you accept it. Now you may disagree and say, for example, that you didn’t choose your mother, but I will tell you that you do allow and accept her behavior around you and that you could actually change what you allow and accept. The problem that makes you feel stuck is often that you don’t like and don’t want the responsibility of the consequences of your choices. BP/NPs can make the consequences of new thoughts and behaviors look really frightening. The BP/NP may yell, scream, manipulate, and threaten, but keep in mind that you are colluding with the BP/NP if you let your anxiety and fear alter your focus from your own life and your own options back on to him or her.

Stop Caretaking the BP/NP

[formflier]

I also feel guilty if I refuse it.
 

Why refuse it?  Don't get sucked into a yes or no game..that's BPD.

"Hey babe, that's a neat idea..I'll give it some thought.  I'm not ready to say yes to this just yet."

She doesn't own your yes..or your no.

Plus...who knows you might find compromise.

Best,

FF

[once removed]

it strikes me that you and your wife fundamentally are not working together when it comes to balancing work and raising children.

its not that one or the other of you is the problem. its that neither of you feels heard, and neither is listening.

[truthdevotee]

Why refuse it?  Don't get sucked into a yes or no game..that's BPD.

"Hey babe, that's a neat idea..I'll give it some thought.  I'm not ready to say yes to this just yet."

She doesn't own your yes..or your no.

Plus...who knows you might find compromise.

Best,

FF

Hey FF, thanks for support...

This morning there's progress and calm - more team work. Looks like we'll figure out a plan.

[truthdevotee]

it strikes me that you and your wife fundamentally are not working together when it comes to balancing work and raising children.

its not that one or the other of you is the problem. its that neither of you feels heard, and neither is listening.

Thanks once removed... I'll keep working at my ability to remain calm and listen, validate, etc., and share my perspective at the same time. Tricky balance.

[Notwendy]

When you are concerned about if you are people pleasing when you want to do a good job at work, I wonder what kind of job do you have that doesn't have basic requirements? ( please don't reveal what kind of job or where- we don't want identifying info here) - but for some jobs, that isn't a question. It's not people pleasing to meet a job requirement- it's what they pay you for. If an employer requires 8 hours of work, there isn't a decision about if 5 hours is enough or not, if they want 8 hours, then the employee is expected to do that.

Yes it's great to have a flexible employer- and a good employer knows that their employees have personal situations on occasions that require some time off, but in the jobs I know of- if an employee consistently doesn't meet their job requirements, they risk not having their job.

Don't anwer this literally- it's a question for you- how much do you need your job? If you quit, who will pay the bills? If you have an unlimited amount of money for vacations, and working when you want- then great, but for most people, they need their jobs and the jobs have basic requirements. Meeting them isn't people pleasing, it's doing the job you were hired for.

In addition, people do get personal satisfaction from their jobs and enjoy positive feedback for a job well done. That's OK, in fact, it's good to like your job.

If you need your job, then you need to have a boundary around meeting the job requirements. You are on holiday now and your wife is demanding another holiday. That would be incompatible with many jobs. It's not realistic for her to expect you to take holidays when she wants.

I have said this before but if you require child care to work, putting this need in your wife's control gives her control over you and your job. If your job is important to you and you need this job to support your family, reliable child care is the way to protect it. She won't let anyone in the house? Day care, preschool, taking the kids to a sitter's house are possible options. You know how renting an Airbnb will go- you tried that and also that takes on an extra expense too.

[thankful person]

Hi Truth,
I haven’t learnt enough to offer any positive advice, but you commented on my post about the stress of getting  in contact with my mum the other day, due to my wife’s jealousy. I just wanted to say, your situation is again comparable to mine, although I am a lesbian with a bpd wife. I am self employed and since Covid I have been tutoring children and adults online working from home. Last June my wife insisted I go back out to work, against government advice, because she was sick of me being in the house, and one elderly student had complained that the blender my wife was using in the kitchen was too loud for her to concentrate (A reasonable point to make). My wife has always been jealous of my students, the fact that we chat and laugh and get along. She has told me not to talk to them other than about their learning. She has shouted at me when I’ve answered a scheduled call in the middle of an argument. She starts arguments when she knows I have work arranged, so that I have to choose between work and her. She says our relationship is suffering because I work too much. But we need the money, and being self employed I have to take what I can. Added to this is the fact that she loves to spend money we don’t even have, (credit cards), and always wants things, and doesn’t work. We have a lovely little 18 month old girl and a baby due any day. Our daughter pays me more attention when I come back from working and my wife is jealous. Thankfully she doesn’t take things out on her much other than summertime shouting, but she does shout (usually at me) and it breaks my heart to see my little girl’s eyes fill with tears. I wish my wife could agree that neither of us should raise our voices so aggressively in front of her. My wife struggled with breast feeding her and she’s worried about the next one. I had hell to pay if I tired her out or if she fell asleep on me, because it was detrimental to her milk supply. Anyway, I realise I’ve changed the subject. I just wanted to say, I relate to a lot of your posts, I just don’t have much time to post on here.

[truthdevotee]

When you are concerned about if you are people pleasing when you want to do a good job at work, I wonder what kind of job do you have that doesn't have basic requirements? ( please don't reveal what kind of job or where- we don't want identifying info here) - but for some jobs, that isn't a question. It's not people pleasing to meet a job requirement- it's what they pay you for. If an employer requires 8 hours of work, there isn't a decision about if 5 hours is enough or not, if they want 8 hours, then the employee is expected to do that.

Yes it's great to have a flexible employer- and a good employer knows that their employees have personal situations on occasions that require some time off, but in the jobs I know of- if an employee consistently doesn't meet their job requirements, they risk not having their job.

Don't anwer this literally- it's a question for you- how much do you need your job? If you quit, who will pay the bills? If you have an unlimited amount of money for vacations, and working when you want- then great, but for most people, they need their jobs and the jobs have basic requirements. Meeting them isn't people pleasing, it's doing the job you were hired for.

In addition, people do get personal satisfaction from their jobs and enjoy positive feedback for a job well done. That's OK, in fact, it's good to like your job.

If you need your job, then you need to have a boundary around meeting the job requirements. You are on holiday now and your wife is demanding another holiday. That would be incompatible with many jobs. It's not realistic for her to expect you to take holidays when she wants.

I have said this before but if you require child care to work, putting this need in your wife's control gives her control over you and your job. If your job is important to you and you need this job to support your family, reliable child care is the way to protect it. She won't let anyone in the house? Day care, preschool, taking the kids to a sitter's house are possible options. You know how renting an Airbnb will go- you tried that and also that takes on an extra expense too.

Hi Notwendy, sorry for my delayed response.

My job is quite creative and very hard for my boss to track. I can work when I want as all the work can be done remotely. COVID-19 has made things more complicated as I haven't had access to the office space which created that natural boundary between work and home. Additionally, more recent heightened restrictions due to COVID-19 rendered my son's preschool closed, so things have been especially challenging.

The job brings in a reasonable income and due to the flat being pretty much bought by my W's father, I have no mortgage. Only daily living costs and the cost of the car. The fact that both the car and the home are in my W's ownership due to her father funding them, I don't really feel like it's my home, despite the fact that I've earned and spent pretty much all of my money on my W and children - naturally. But that will start to change as I need to start investing more in my mental and physical health, as well as start sending gifts to my FOO for birthdays and Christmas (all gift giving to my FOO has been "restricted").

So yeah... the job is basically in nature creative and remote, therefore, my boss uses a trust-based approach to management. This is great in general but also the lack of expectations on a daily basis naturally make it easier for the rules to be "bent." I don't want to bend the rules, but my W believes that "they don't pay you enough, therefore you don't need to work to the max. for them."

[khibomsis]

Dear truthdevotee, sometimes it is easier to simply not invalidate. I am shocked by how invalidating I can be since I learnt to hear it. Maybe focusing on not invalidating will help to improve communication between you and your wife?

As for work, I once was impressed by a young woman who at the time was cleaning offices. What struck me was the focus and intensity she brought to cleaning, and the pride she took in her work. I gave her a chance and these days she has a graduate degree and a management position. Just saying that I have always found giving your best to your work to be a sound policy. You never know who may be 'watching'. I know it is tough with two small children, but  at least putting in the hours lets you know you have given it its due.

[truthdevotee]

Dear truthdevotee, sometimes it is easier to simply not invalidate. I am shocked by how invalidating I can be since I learnt to hear it. Maybe focusing on not invalidating will help to improve communication between you and your wife?

As for work, I once was impressed by a young woman who at the time was cleaning offices. What struck me was the focus and intensity she brought to cleaning, and the pride she took in her work. I gave her a chance and these days she has a graduate degree and a management position. Just saying that I have always found giving your best to your work to be a sound policy. You never know who may be 'watching'. I know it is tough with two small children, but  at least putting in the hours lets you know you have given it its due.

Hey KB, thanks yes, it's been such a grey area regarding work due to this flexibility, but I've had this guilt for not putting in the required time because it means I only ever achieve my prioritized items and not the items of a lower priority. Hence, it isn't really noticed by my manager yet that "extra" spells the difference between good performance and great performance.

Regarding invalidation, thanks for bringing this up. I'm reading a book which contained some information about healthy expression of anger (i.e. expressing anger without making someone else feel inferior), and I plan to look into some dedicated books to learn more anger skills.

I can see the resistance of my ego within me in response to your comment on invalidation. I see the exhaustion and the thought "I've tried so hard for so long to not invalidate and I never seemed to make any progress. I'm so frustrated by the abuse I don't feel I have the energy for it anymore."

That inner reaction is occurring yet I also believe I should always be open-minded, especially to feedback, so I'd like to ask, how to ensure I'm not invalidating?