New Relationship

[Atlas2020]

I just recently started seeing a man with self admitted border line personality disorder. He's a great guy with a lot of trust issues/paranoia/etc. He's gone quiet on me a few times, but always comes back and we're ok. The past 2 days have been hell to say the least. He's jumping between accusing me of being paid to see him, working against him, etc to having a partially normal conversation that eventually jumps back into the accusations. He asks me questions and when I answer them honestly he gets angry because he says I'm not. I've told him that I'm here for him and I'm willing to help him fight. Sometimes that falls on deaf ears and other times he's happy that I'm here. I just recently found out that he's a drug addict. He had confessed in the beginning that he had past problems, but I had no idea that he was still using pills. He did try and initiate a breakup, but we talked it out and decided that we could still be friendly and talk. I just want to be there for him when he needs someone and I want him to know that he can talk to me. The only problem is I still very much have feelings for him and my heart is in pieces.
I've never dealt with this before.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

So glad you found us.  I definitely think we can help you sort out this very odd behavior.

Can you confirm I'm hearing something right?

He believes you are being paid to see him?  By whom?  Who does he believe is paying for this and why?

How did you respond to this?

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

He's been hurt and deceived by a lot of people in his life. A previous gf of his betrayed him greatly and then had other people in his life mess with his head. I'm not exactly sure the whole story. I just know what he told me. A few days ago he started acting weird. I was worried about him and contacted a friend of his that I just recently met. I asked her if I could talk to her and get some insight about how to help him. He lived with her and her husband for a while and they know him pretty well. He is doing some work at their house right now and was actually there when I came to talk to her. I didn't mention anything about it to him before hand and almost didn't go when I found out he was there because I knew it would potentially cause issues. She explained that I was coming over to talk and he seemed fine with it. After I talked to her I went out and spent time with him. He was fine at first and then increasingly became distant and paranoid. He later on accused me of knowing the couple before I actually met them and that we were all conspiring against him. He mentioned me being paid by them to date him and mess with his head. His addiction has at least a little something to do with it. The husband was acting a little odd while we were there so he took that to mean something. His phone was also acting weird and that freaks him out on a whole other level.

[Atlas2020]

Also, When he asked me about it, I of course, told him that I wasn't with him for any other reason than wanting to be and he called me a liar. Yesterday was a really bad day for him and me. No matter what I said I was called a liar. He had texted the night before and said that he was good with hanging out and talking but he couldn't trust me enough to be in a relationship with him (this after accusing me of referring to him with a different name in a phone conversation). I responded to him that it hurt, but i was ok with that. Then yesterday morning he texted me back, seemingly upset that I didn't want more than friendship. When I told him I did, he was glad. Then the day went downhill fast and it ended with him wanting to end the relationship all together. After talking, we've decided to still hang out and talk until I figure out he's insane (his words, not mine)

[formflier]

  I just know what he told me. 

Exactly...

What is the impact of this on how you approach this situation/relationship?

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

I do wish he would tell me more. He has been very open with me about what he's gone through. I just feel like he's holding back something. The only reason I know about the pills is because the friend i spoke to told me thinking I already knew. He doesn't know I know and I would never want him to feel betrayed. I'm afraid to ask him to elaborate on things because I'm scared that he'll shut down again. I do know that he's mentioned before that there's at least one thing that he's afraid to tell me because I'll think he's crazy. Everyone has things they choose to keep to themselves. I have no problem with that. I just wish he would open up more about his past. I just want to understand more so I know how to proceed.

The friend says that she thinks he's scared. Because he's been done so wrong. He thinks he can't trust me. I just wish i could get him to understand that he can. I know this relationship has a high probability of not ending well, but I want to try.

[formflier]

I'm going to encourage you to relax and relent from trying to get him to open up for a few weeks.  There are some very important things for you to understand.

It's entirely possible that your current course of action is contributing to these paranoid thoughts/expressions.  It's also entirely possible that your current course of action is largely ok. 

It will take time to work through and understand. 

So..is it possible to be friendly and open..without prying for a few weeks?  If he wants to get into who is paying you, mind control or other theories...what could you say to move that conversation to later...don't confirm or deny...move it?    Can you practice a bit with us?

We need to start building your knowledge base.

Very important article to read several times

I do wish he would tell me more. He has been very open with me about what he's gone through.

Has he been accurate about what he has gone through?  Has he been accurate about you and what you are doing in the relationship?

  Because he's been done so wrong. 

How is this known?

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

He's been accurate in what he's told me about his past. I'm going by the fact that when he's not 'manic' as he calls it, he's very open. I know he's been hurt because he's told me and also the friend made the same statement. When it comes to what he's said about me, he's incorrect. I'm not trying to do anything other than be with him. I'm not pressuring him into talking or anything of the sort. He goes between acting like i'm a bad person (even though he says he's never said anything to make me think that) and telling me i'm a good soul and a good person.

When it comes to current communication, I texted him a Good night text last night and a Good Morning text this morning. It's something we've done since we started talking. He responded to both in a very neutral but positive way. I'm not going to pressure him into talking unless he wants to. He doesn't have to talk at all if he doesn't want to.

I'm not sure how to respond to the accusations. He's so adamant that i'm doing it that no matter what i say he doesn't believe me. I'm scared to bring anything up that may trigger a response.
If I'm doing anything to trigger him then I'm not doing it intentionally. I would never hurt him. When he texted me about possibly not talking anymore his reasoning was that either i was "messing with him or he wasn't mentally stable enough to be in a relationship". That's why I reiterated with him that i was ok with just hanging out and talking. No pressure. Nothing of the sort. He was ok with that.

[formflier]

He's been accurate in what he's told me about his past. 

How do you objectively know this?

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

I guess I don't. Its just a feeling I have. I don't really know how to tell because I've never dealt with this before.

[formflier]

I guess I don't. Its just a feeling I have. I don't really know how to tell because I've never dealt with this before.

OK...please understand that "paranoia" is really complex.  Any advice I give you is "very broad".

Please consider the possibility that the level of inaccuracy that you see/experience from him...possibly representative of the level of inaccuracy present in his descriptions of the past.

Consider the possibility that it's worse..that it's better.

Please start considering the mindset that he is "not a puzzle to be solved"...but a "human to be loved"..

What would it look like if you listened to his stories..not for details...but for emotions.

What does your support system look like?  This is not a do it yourself thing...you need support.

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

To be honest I've wondered if his paranoia plays into his memory of the past. For example, he used to live with the friend that I talked to and her husband. She explained that when he left he claimed that they threw him out, but in reality he left on his own.
 
I very much consider him a person to be loved. I want to love him. I try and listen to him from an emotional standpoint but sometimes it's hard when I don't completely understand.
I really don't have a support system. What few people know think I'm crazy. The only people I feel like I could talk to are the friends that he got so paranoid about so I don't feel comfortable talking to them.

[formflier]

Altering your actions or other relationships so a paranoid person "feels" one way or another is unlikely to be wise.

I also need to be wise here and realize that you are very very early to the process.  I commend you for being so prompt about replying.

There was a point in time when my wife believed I had a love child with another woman..that she had met this child...and that it was all part of a plot that was hidden from her.  Once time for paternity test (and truth) came close...her "theory" changed. (and this is just one of many

Paranoia sucks...very tricky to work with in a relationship.  I need to be careful to guide you slowly down this road.

What was your impression of the article I posted earlier?

What does building a support system look like for you?

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

The article was definitely informational. I really don't know what building a support system looks like. Like i said, the few people that know about him think i'm crazy. I don't know that I really have anyone to support me.

I'm so sorry you went through that with your wife. That must have been hard for both of you.

He means the world to me. I'm scared that I'm losing him. I'm trying to give him space but I'm worried that if i give him too much space he'll think i don't care. I don't know how his headspace is when it comes to a relationship. He said that he wasn't comfortable with anything other than friendship because he can't trust me. On the other hand, he acted upset yesterday when he thought about me not wanting it to be a romantic relationship.

I worry because he doesn't really have any family to support him. He has 2 daughters (one in early 20's one in teens) but I don't know how much if anything they know about his condition. I've never met them or anything. His mom died a few years ago and he doesn't really talk to his brother and dad much other than the occasional text. He had a falling out with them which is part of his trust issues now. He told me that i couldn't tell him i loved him because he believed his dad when he said it and it turned out not to be true. He's renting a room from a lady right now and i honestly don't think it's a healthy situation to be in.

[formflier]

He will think and will likely say..quite forcefully...that you do and don't love him (insert other random accusations).

Please don't alter your behavior to "alter what he thinks".

If you see a future with this guy...you need a professional support system.

Have you ever gone to a therapist before?

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

It's funny you ask that. I contacted a therapist this morning. More so for my own benefit than having to do with this relationship. I definitely would love to be able to talk to someone. The only problem is this particular therapist is full and has a waiting list. I don't really know how to find anyone to talk to.


Can I ask you how you handled your situation? I'm completely lost. I want to run to him and tell him i'm here and it'll will be ok, but i know he won't want that. I'm scared. For the life of me I'm scared. I know there's a huge chance I'm going to come out on the losing side of this, but I want to try. I desperately want to try.

[formflier]

"Running to him"...rushing...hurrying are 100% in the wrong direction.

Calm..steady..long term relationship stability/healthy action from you is the best chance.


I see a PhD level psychologist weekly.  I have this support group.  I have another group of family friends and church that I am deliberate to be NORMAL in.  No talk of paranoia, bpd, mental illness..any of that.

Someday I may share more...but this is a multiyear process for me and will likely be for you as well.

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

I know running to him is not a good idea. It's just a feeling. I'm drawn that way, so it's killing me. I just contacted a counseling center at a church that my boss recommended. I'm hoping to hear from them.

I texted him to ask how he was. I kept it short and sweet. He says he's having a hard day. I told him i was here if he needed me. He said that it means the world to him and he feels the same.  I'm trying to check in, but give him his space at the same time.

Do I need to tell him I'm giving him space? To be honest i've never told him before. He kind of figured it out on his own. I just don't want him to think I don't care.

[formflier]

I would suggest a much more "neutral" approach.  Asking him how he is likely encourages him to think about his problems and mood.

As opposed to "Hey babe...wasn't that rain refreshing?  What's new with you?"

See how there is no "suggestion"?  There is a "hint" that you like him...(babe)...there is a hint that there are positive things (refreshing)..but nothing is pushy.

And look...this is not about training you exactly what to say..or to copy phrases you have been given.

My hope is you understand the "mindset" behind "why" it's a good idea, so that when he pitches you a curveball...you have a good chance of responding to it in a healthy way.

No..don't tell him you are giving him space.  Trust that if he is curious...he will seek answers.


Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

I understand I think. So instead of just out right asking him how he is, I should be more mindful of what I say and try to make it more normal. I should say something like "hey sweetie. isn't the sun beautiful today?"

I do appreciate you trying to help me with this. You're very patient.

[Atlas2020]

I'm regretting talking to the friend now because I'm scared of what I told her getting back to him. She says she won't tell him and I want to believe her because she hasn't so far. They are having a party at their house this weekend and he's invited. I'm scared that something is going to get mentioned in front of him that could ruin everything. I feel so stupid

[HealingTee]

Hi Atlas2020,

Your story almost sounds identical to mine. I’m not sure if you’re still in a relationship with your BPD partner but my exBPD boyfriend was also addicted to drugs and had the same extreme paranoia and would accuse me of cheating on him with multiple people including his best friends (who cut him off eventually) and men in my own family. He even went on a smear campaign after our breakup and spread rumors that I was not only a cheater but also a stripper he saw at a bachelor party 4-5 years before we even met. Apparently I looked a lot like this stripper so in his BPD mind I HAD to be her.

When I was with my ex, he would also tell me stories about his past girlfriends/friends and would tell me how they cheated on him and did him wrong. One girlfriend was apparently a sex worker and did webcam. I actually believed him at the time. Knowing better now and after becoming a victim of his smear campaign, I now realized that all the stories he told about his exs and past friends are not true. All of it was a distorted delusional reality. I would highly question the stories your BPD partner has told you about his past. It is from my understanding that those with BPD do not intentionally try to lie about their past, but BPD is a serious mental illness that can greatly distort their reality. There are stories on here of BPD ex’s accusing their past partners of more serious crimes like rape and physical abuse. Some people’s lives have been destroyed by these false accusations.

I think it’s important that you protect yourself and put yourself first because your partner has the capability to go on a big smear against you, if he hasn’t already. Sadly when it comes to their paranoia/delusions, there is no winning against it. No matter how many times you try to defend yourself or even provide proof, the BPD person will still not believe you.

A relationship with someone with BPD is extremely HARD. If they are untreated, then the relationship is pretty much impossible. I also see that you experienced a lot of the push/pull behavior in your relationship. That is very typical behavior of the illness. Please know that you do not deserve to keep getting your heart broken by that behavior.

I totally understand how hard it is. I was madly in love with my BPDex (we even got engaged) When his BPD wasn’t taking over him, he honestly was one of the most amazing, caring, sweetest guy you could ever meet. My ex is a good man with good qualities but the unfortunate reality is that he’s sick. BPD will always be a part of them, and sadly their BPD will cause them to deeply hurt, abuse and betray those who love and care about them the most. 

My advice to you is to just take care of yourself. It’s very common that those who are in a relationship with somebody with Bpd are people who are suffering from codependency. I started therapy after my breakup and discovered that I am extremely codependent. A codependent person is more willing to try to rescue/save the Bpd partner and is also willing to self- sacrifice and accommodate their partners BPD behaviors (which will begin an unhealthy pattern of walking on eggshells).

If you still have the desire to be with your partner, I suggest you try to work it out with him only if he is in therapy, DBT in particular. Please know that it takes many many years in therapy for a person with Bpd to manage their symptoms and to fully recover. Relationships with them are still difficult even while they are in therapy, you just have to ask yourself if you’re willing to go through it.

Best of luck to you and wishing you all the best!

[Atlas2020]

Hi,

Thank you for your advice. It's crazy that you mention the ex who he said was a sex worker. Mine said the same about his ex. He said that he found out that she filmed them without his knowledge and put it online. He also said that she apparently slept with 2 of his family members. I'm seriously starting to doubt things that he's told me. It's so sad because he is such an great guy when he's not "manic". I have no idea if we are still "together" or not. He says he wants to be friends and nothing more but then when I agree to it, he gets upset because he says everyone leaves him. I want to be in his life in some capacity because we do get a long so well when he's ok. I just don't think I can do the relationship thing. It's hard to say because I really want to but it's just too much worry and stress on my part. Thankfully we've only been seeing each other a few months so, even though I do have feelings for him, I know it won't be as stressful as some that I've read on here. I hate that anyone has or is going through it.

[HealingTee]

Hey Atlas,

Him wanting to be only friends with you but then gets upset when you agree is part of the push/pull dynamic. Those with BPD desperately want close intimate relationships but they greatly fear it at the same time. In other words, he may want you close but not too close due to his fear of abandonment. Sometimes their fear is so intense that they’ll just discard or ghost their partners. Sometimes without warning. The fear of abandonment  is also where all of the false accusations stem from (cheating, betrayal, plotting, etc.)
You should check out the book “I hate you, don't leave me”

I definitely think you will be better off not having a romantic relationship with him. If you choose to maintain the friendship, make sure to set some boundaries with him. I think it is nice of you that you still want to be a support system for him and want to be there for him. If he isn’t in therapy, perhaps you can encourage him to get into treatment. Also, if you still want to be friends, just be prepared for anything. Even in friendships a person with BPD will split, accuse, and rage at their friends. Any sort of relationship with them can be toxic and unhealthy to your own well being, especially untreated.

Best wishes to you!

[Atlas2020]

I'll have to check out that book.

Thank you again for the advice. I definitely need to set boundaries with him. I'm just taking it day by day. I fully expect to be ghosted at some point because he appears so confused, scared, and desperate to keep me close and push me away. I know it's fear because he's told me. He's very aware of some of his issues and not so aware of others. When he does, I'll find a way to let him know that I'm here if he needs me and then move on with my own life and situation.

Best wishes to you as well :-)

[SandCastle7]

Forgive me for being blunt but... please free yourself from this man while you can.

I would have not married my husband if I knew the rages and false accusations of cheating and bald face lying I was signing up for.

I'm working with a therapist to understand how and why I've created this situation in my life.

[SandCastle7]

I"m sorry - I'm brand new here and just saw the notice about "no advice on staying or leaving." I won't do that again.

[Atlas2020]

It's ok. I understand what you're saying.

As of right now we are just friends. He was texting me weird things yesterday and when i answered his last text his response was "it's ok. Since we're just friends." I responded that I was still ok with us being that way if that's what he wants to do.
I wanted more than that but now it's bringing my mood and emotional energy down every time I talk to him. I'm hopeful one day he'll get the help he needs. I want to talk to him about it but I know the drama it will cause and he will more than likely get angry.

[formflier]

There is  a different vibe here.

Do you "want to be more than friends"?

Doe he "want to be more"?

Best,

FF

[Atlas2020]

Honestly I wanted to be more at first. Now I'm fine with being friends. If he decides to get help then maybe we could be more. The feelings aren't completely gone on my end, but it's just tiring for me at this point. Worrying about what I will or won't say to upset him.
I have no idea what he wants. The past few times he's said he just wants to be friends and I say that's ok, he gets upset because people always leave him. The last time he mentioned it and I again told him I was ok with it he never responded to me saying it. He says that the idea of us being more than friends (possibly with benefits) scares him and if he feels more than that then he'll run.