BPD wife has post natal depression

[thankful person]

Lesbian with BPD wife
We have two beautiful daughters aged 20 months and 6 weeks. The little one was in NICU for two weeks and it has been really stressful. My wife is very jealous of how the older child has become much closer to me. She shouts loudly at me not to cuddle her or read stories and this is very upsetting. I get in trouble if I hold the little one too long because if she falls asleep it messes with breast feeding.
We have just put our house on the market against my wishes, because she wants to move far away, where we can get a much nicer place but both of our families are upset. My mother is so upset to have hardly seen us since having children. But now my wife is cutting off her own family too. I just don’t know what to do. My parents were invited last minute for Father’s Day as they haven’t met the baby yet and only met the other one a few times. They can’t make it at short notice as my dad is very disabled. I’m caught in the middle. And I never get to talk to my family without my wife listening and criticising my mum no matter what she says.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[khibomsis]

Dear Broken Person,  and welcome to the family! I am sorry to hear about the crisis you are in, having two babies so close together is going to be hard on anyone, and stress is always going to make BPD worse. PwBPD have low stress tolerance, and will tend to react badly with worsening dysregulations and acting out.

One thing I have noticed often on these boards is that child birth and parenting can really affect the BPD for the worse. Sometimes they get jealous of their children and act out. This is because BPD is an attachment disorder, and if your wife has had experiences of abandonment or parental abuse it can be really hard for her to watch your daughter get the love she never had. Perhaps you can share more about what you know of her childhood, and what gave rise to the BPD?

The best advice I can give you is to not let crazy run your life. One of you in this marriage is sane and it is not your wife. She should not be the one to make life-altering decisions at the moment. It seems as if you are coming from a long period of fuzzy boundaries and have established a pattern where you appease and she makes demands. But at this point this will affect your children negatively, and your first responsibility is to them. Do you feel able to set some firm boundaries and stick to them?

Ask yourself if the stress of selling, buying and moving far away is in any way going to help to make your wife better? How will it affect you?

It seems as if she is jealous of whoever you love, and trying to isolate you so that you are wholly dependent. But you have to take responsibility for the fact that you are letting her. Is your wife in therapy? Are you? Because counselling is the appropriate place to deal with these issues. A new house distant from your sources of support is not going to make your problems better and is likely to make them worse.   

[Cat Familiar]

I remember that your wife was trying to prevent you from sharing photos with your mother.

To echo Khibomsis, why are you allowing a disordered person, one who is suffering from post natal depression, to make life choices which affect your family?

You need to be the emotional leader as the healthy partner. It will undoubtedly be difficult, since you've fallen into a pattern of appeasement.

Think of your children's future. You need to model healthy adult behavior for them.

[Ventak]

Broken person, sorry to hear about your struggles.  I'm there myself and I know how difficult it is.  I'm in the position of needing to protect our 2.5 year old twins from my BPDw, my best friend whom I love dearly.  The twins and I will add you and your family tonight to our evening "mama prayer".

To echo Khibomsis, why are you allowing a disordered person, one who is suffering from post natal depression, to make life choices which affect your family?

You need to be the emotional leader as the healthy partner. It will undoubtedly be difficult, since you've fallen into a pattern of appeasement.

Think of your children's future. You need to model healthy adult behavior for them.

Khibomsis and Cat Familiar, thank you very much for your words of wisdom.  People have been telling me this here for quite a while now.  Unsure if it was the way you two worded it, or if I was finally able to accept it...  but I think I finally truly understand the position I'm in and what absolutely must be done.  Hopefully I will have the strength to follow through.

[thankful person]

Thank you all for your advice and prayers. Yes my wife did suffer abuse in childhood and she is jealous of everyone. I should have predicted this because when our first child arrived I was shouted at for allowing her dog to feel closer to me. I would appreciate some specific advice for how to respond when she screeches “PUT HER DOWN” at me when our baby wants a cuddle. It seems it’s less upsetting for the child if I do as I’m told otherwise she screeches more.
I have moved around a lot as I’m 15 years older than her so I feel as though a marriage can only work if one is open to the others desires. Funny thing I said to her today, “I thought I’d have a better quality of life here having a swimming pool but I didn’t realise I’d never be allowed to swim in it”. I said that I’d feel I’d have a better quality of life having a sea view and that she wouldn’t be able to stop me looking out of the window. So yes there are parts of me that would like to move on. She agreed that she couldn’t stop me looking out of the window.
She cancelled her own parents coming to meet baby on Sunday as she didn’t want me to be jealous without my parents there. They are returning my car which they have been borrowing but they won’t come in, we will all drive back to theirs (without my wife and kids) so I’m looking forward to catching up with them without my wife around.
I really appreciate all the support on the forum so thanks again. Neither of us are in therapy. She has done it all before and isn’t interested. No way I’m allowed and I don’t want to face this at the moment. The other thing I struggle with is my wife being jealous of my work, she doesn’t seem to get that I am working to support our family and she is not, she just likes spending the money we don’t really have (credit cards.. which I then have to pay back).

[thankful person]

The latest on photos is that we took many of our little one in nicu but hardly any in the couple of weeks she’s been home. Today there was a beautiful moment when our older one started interacting with the little one. I took three photos of them both with my wife then eight photos of just the children. Oops. Then I suggested trying to get the four of us but my wife wasn’t happy because we looked bad on the screen. She was angry that I took more pictures of the children without her and has deleted them all off my phone though they are still in the deleted folder. How do I go about getting permission to recover them or is it not worth it?

[khibomsis]

Dear Broken Person, boundaries are not things we do for other people. It is something we do for ourselves, because they reflect our values, because that is simply the way we live life.
So I don't really know how to respond when you ask how to get permission from your wife to undelete photos on your phone which she deleted without your permission. Do you understand that there is no real answer to that question except that it is your phone? She should not be on it in the first place. It is only when you share that value that you are able to begin setting a boundary around it.

Similarly when your wife starts screaming she disturbs the child. The child will begin to associate you cuddling her with loud noises and tense body language. The correct response to screeching is to say :"please stop screaming?" and then walk away from her to a quiet place where you and your child can cuddle in peace. This expresses the value that you do not want be passing on BPD to your children. That is, you want to do everything you can to avoid role modelling an insecure attachment style. When conflict becomes associated with intimacy you are setting your daughter up for high conflict relationships in the future.

I have a passion about this since I grew up with an uNBPD mom.  Had this site been around when I was a child, my life would have been much less painful.  I grew up learning to only express affection for my dad when mom was not around.  It would be nice if things could be different for the next generation.

Writing on this site is a great first step and we are here to support you.
I think you should find yourself a therapist, BP. I think it needs to start there.  

Maybe something for you to read while you ponder? https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

[Cat Familiar]

Awesome comment by khibomosis 

Broken person, your screen name says so much. Now that you’re a parent, you need to make some positive changes in your life in order to be the best parent that you can possibly be to your little ones.

You’ve likely been a people pleaser your entire life and codependent too. This will backfire with your BPD partner. It’s time to learn how to implement boundaries and do some counseling to learn how to assert yourself.

[thankful person]

Khibomosis and Cat, thank you again, so much. I do fear the repercussions of getting a therapist, it feels like saying, I’m going to therapy to learn how to stand up to you. You guys have some great ideas and advice. I do worry about my children’s mental health in the future and even now. The older girl is still a baby but so sensitive to my wife’s outbursts. My father-in-law’s advice, “you don’t want to rock the boat, what you need to do is capsize the b****y boat!” I will try to walk away with the child if there is a next time. I really want to do the best I can as a parent, to protect these innocent little people we have brought into the world. I will never understand how people would shout like that when children are getting upset.
Now we are all vaccinated and allowed to see family, I really want to see my mum and take the older child at least (youngest is still breast feeding so can’t go anywhere without my wife). My wife’s excuses about not driving the 1.5 hours is child 1 it interferes with naps and she gets car sick. Child 2 is clinically vulnerable and breast feeding. But we are all doing around 8-10 hour road trip to look at a house in a couple of days. So the excuse is meaningless. But my wife has seen no one not even her own family since leaving hospital. She is punishing everyone for asking about our sick child and not about her.

[Ventak]

I do fear the repercussions of getting a therapist, it feels like saying, I’m going to therapy to learn how to stand up to you.

BP, I think you are taking the right steps and I'm proud of you.  You are at the start of a difficult journey, and coming to this site is a great first step.  you are among friends, people who have experienced what you are experiencing, and who care about helping you.

I wouldn't look at it as going to therapy to learn how to stand up to your pwBPD, but learning to stand up for yourself and your relationship.  You are a unique human being with needs of your own... needs that are equally important for the success of your relationship.  As the one person in the relationship with emotional maturity, you need to be in a good emotional place or you can't give your partner the support she needs.  This is an excellent article that helped me understand my role:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

I encourage you to read through other threads and learn about the struggles we all face.. I always learn something new this way.

[Cat Familiar]

Whatever changes you make will be upsetting to your wife. Period. Full stop.

And yes, one of the goals in therapy is to be able to stand up for yourself. Every emotionally healthy adult needs to be able to do that. If you don’t start now, it’s going to get progressively harder as the children get older and your family becomes more entrenched in cowering to a mentally ill adult’s changing whims and demands.

The children need a strong advocate, who can keep them safe. That is you.

[khibomsis]

Aw shucks, Cat. Your post was pretty awesome too 
BP, when I first came to these boards I was also broken. You cannot imagine what a miserable wreck I was, and how many times I fell down along the way. Still pretty messed up but getting there.

 Formflier  lists the steps which lead to success as follows:
1. posting on this site
2. therapy
3. family and friend support
4. 12 steps groups or similar

You have 1. You don't want 2. You want to move away from 3. Would you consider 4, then? There might be a Co-dependent's Anonymous near you, or they will have online meetings at https://coda.org

If the big boundaries seem overwhelming, pick something small that feels manageable to start with. What do you feel able to set a boundary over? We will walk you through it. I really don't think you have much to lose. She will screech anyway if you don't set boundaries so you might as well have them.

Long roadtrips are bad, bad news. I would firmly advise against them, it is a set up for tragedy.  BP, how much do you hate yourself? What was your childhood like?

Here is a thread that might help you prepare for what you are in for: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285200.0

Yes, what she says is not going to make sense, especially in the midst of a dysregulation. You take one day to drive her parents back. You take another to go see your parents with your older daughter. Pretend it is normal. Do not enter into negotiation about it. The world is full of people who go see their parents without drama. Believe you can be one of them, BP.  Believe your daughters can grow up knowing it is possible to go see their grandparents without drama.

 

[thankful person]

Ventak, Cat, Khibomsis, thank you for your kindness and support. I know that things need to change and that I need to fight for this. I was starting to send pictures of the first child to my mum but this was before the baby arrived so I have chosen to try and keep the peace a bit more recently. OMG I would LOVE to take our little girl to see my parents. I don’t know how to though. How to tell her, “I’m taking your baby”. She is legally mine too. But my wife did everything with her before the little one arrived. I truly thought I was the secondary parent. Only now I see how much that little girl needs me to be strong and stable. My wife wanted to end our relationship when I stood up for myself and said I was going to send mum baby pictures against her wishes. She refused to say she loved me or give any affection for several months. So I think that is a place to start.. even though she likes me to send the same pics to her mum too... and apparently she does the same except she often doesn’t send them to my mum. And lies about it. She likes to know when I send pics so I’m not going behind her back...