I am planning to leave my BPD spouse - what are my next steps

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have been going on this roller coaster for too long (married 25 years), I actually thought this behaviour was normal.  I knew something was not right but maybe denial.  We have 2 children (9 year old & 14 year old).
I need some tactical advice on the next steps (I have already talked to a lawyer and physchologist):
 - he knows this is it and he's signed up for DBT, he thinks it will start in a couple months.
 - he pleads that he wants to improve his relationship with his children
 - he begs me to stay and proving that he really loves me.

Unfortunately, I can't take this chance any more as to damage my children and myself more than has happened.   He will slip back, this begging/pleading has happened before.  I can't improve the quality of my life with him around.

1. plan to meet with a marriage counsellor who will actually act more of a mediator as we end the marriage.
2. how do I get him out of the house?  Rental market is rubbish in this area.
3. Do I force him out that day or allow some time?  What if he takes the kids or changes locks on the house?

[TigerCat]

I have been going on this roller coaster for too long (married 25 years), I actually thought this behaviour was normal.  I knew something was not right but maybe denial.  We have 2 children (9 year old & 14 year old).
I need some tactical advice on the next steps (I have already talked to a lawyer and physchologist):
 - he knows this is it and he's signed up for DBT, he thinks it will start in a couple months.
 - he pleads that he wants to improve his relationship with his children
 - he begs me to stay and proving that he really loves me.

Unfortunately, I can't take this chance any more as to damage my children and myself more than has happened.   He will slip back, this begging/pleading has happened before.  I can't improve the quality of my life with him around.

1. plan to meet with a marriage counsellor who will actually act more of a mediator as we end the marriage.
2. how do I get him out of the house?  Rental market is rubbish in this area.
3. Do I force him out that day or allow some time?  What if he takes the kids or changes locks on the house?

[pursuingJoy]

Hi TigerCat. This brings up memories.

My H and I co-owned a house and had 3 kids. We'd gone to counseling for months and finally reached a point where he grudgingly agreed (at the urging of a counselor) that separation was best. He was given two weeks to pack and make arrangements.

The deadline came and went with zero activity from him. I was so angry, and fearful of confronting him alone. One morning I quietly slipped out of the house, took my 3 kids to a safe place. I found our counselor and then I called my H, stating that he needed to leave by the end of the day. He found immediate accommodations with a friend and left the house by the end of the day.

1. Once you've clarified your intent and that he is the one that needs to leave, give him a deadline to move out. Maybe provide a consequence, or just think through what to do if he does not move out.

2. If he doesn't move out, move your kids to a safe place. Of course, don't let them know what's going on - just visit Grandma or a friend, make plans for them to spend the night, just in case. Are you worried about your physical safety if you confront him? What can you do to mitigate that?

3. I wonder if you could be proactive about changing the locks? My H left that day, mostly because other people knew what he was doing now and expected him to comply with the agreement. I spent the night alone in our house and was absolutely terrified that he'd come back and hurt me. My only consolation was that the kids were safe at an undisclosed location. I wish I'd changed the locks the moment he left.

4. Sounds like you're already doing this, but make sure your legal bases are covered. Can you change the locks without his knowledge? In my state, if I'd left the house it could have been considered abandonment, giving him rights to the house. If I'd left the state with the kids, it might be considered kidnapping.

This may not all fit your situation, just trying to help you brainstorm. Please keep us posted. I'd love to know what you decide.

[ForeverDad]

pursuingJoy made some good points.  Item 1 was all about firm Boundaries - and consequences.  Follow the link to the Skills & Tools workshop list and read the Boundary threads.  PwBPD or other acting-out PDs resist boundaries.  No doubt you've known that for a long time.  Well, these boundaries are for you, that is, how you respond to his boundary violations.

What guidance has your lawyer given?  He ought to be your local expert, guide and legal resource.  If you're unsure about all these matters, he may be assuming this will be like most divorces.  Unfortunately, our acting-out _PD cases are too often filled with sabotage, obstruction, delays, denials, accusations, etc.

Have you read the excellent handbook by William Eddy... Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  It's inexpensive.  One of the chapters explains how to find a proactive, experienced lawyer who can handle our sort of cases.

[TigerCat]

Thank you for the suggestions.  There are a few things that I am thinking right now.

He knows I'm not happy and I've asked to see a marriage counsellor with him.  His immediate reaction was equivalent to a toddler reaction of taking away a toy (running, crying, screaming).  Then he agreed to see a counsellor.  My plan of attack is to have the counsellor act as a mediator as I tell him the marriage is over.  (I've already told the counsellor of this plan).   I really have no idea how it will go over.

This past weekend he was the absolute ideal husband, taking the kids, spending quality time with them, letting me relax and he even cooked dinner and breakfast each day (this never happens).  He has started to get help, which is great.  But my love for him is gone and it will take much more than this to gain my love again.  He will likely start DBT in a month or so, he's on a wait-list.

He wanted to prove to me that he can be a perfect father.  Spent time with our daughter and told her that he loved her and apologized for everything. 

Am I wrong to want to leave him after him after so much effort on his part?  But I truly can't say to him that I love him.  I am thinking the end goal is that we split kids 50/50 and he ends up being a great dad to his kids and a future partner is a win ... I just don't need to be a part of it.

He has setup our home as a "smart home" which he 100% controls, so getting security to come in and fix that part will be hard.  Garage door, locks, cameras, alexas, etc.

[pursuingJoy]

My plan of attack is to have the counsellor act as a mediator as I tell him the marriage is over.  (I've already told the counsellor of this plan).   I really have no idea how it will go over.

Will you do this in one session or over a course of sessions? What do you think would be the approach that would be most effective in the long run? I did the same thing over the course of several months, it bought me the time I needed to plan and prepare.

Am I wrong to want to leave him after him after so much effort on his part?  But I truly can't say to him that I love him. 

You're not wrong, but this might be an argument for stretching the sessions out until you're fully prepared. The best advice I ever got was, "Try everything you can, and make sure you're 100% confident that this is your only option, because you'll need that peace of mind later." Take time to think this through until any doubt dissipates.

I am thinking the end goal is that we split kids 50/50 and he ends up being a great dad to his kids and a future partner is a win ... I just don't need to be a part of it.

It likely won't be this simple. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but go into it with eyes wide open. You'll always be connected to him through the kids. We know that pwBPD often make difficult exes, because they struggle with rejection - you and your kids will be a constant reminder of that. Kids struggle with the change in routine and moving from home to home, and they internalize many of their struggles. Some parents (on purpose, or inadvertently) put their kids in the middle, and kids carry the burden of choosing or mediating. New partners can help, but they can also create more chaos for you and frustration for the kids.

Again, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It can be the best choice, but it isn't the easier choice. It was the best choice for me and I don't regret it, even with the challenges I've faced since then. That peace of mind I mentioned earlier goes a long way during tough times. Build a support system and plan for the hard work you have ahead.

He has setup our home as a "smart home" which he 100% controls, so getting security to come in and fix that part will be hard.  Garage door, locks, cameras, alexas, etc.

Is your name on the account to make those changes? I know I can't even get info about a utility bill in my husband's name unless my name is on it.

[kells76]

Quick thought:

Am I wrong to want to leave him after him after so much effort on his part?

What if we quantified that amount of effort? Am I reading correctly that it was one weekend, i.e., 3 days?

I'm on the same page as pursuingJoy -- it's not inherently wrong to feel whatever you feel, and to identify that feeling: i.e., "I notice that I still want to leave him even after this weekend".

That is some good information you're giving yourself.

In the same sentence, I think you're telling yourself something really important:

It looks like "so much effort on his part"... and... something about that hasn't changed your feeling about the situation.

That's telling.

You feel like you "should" want to stay... but you notice that you don't.

I wonder if it's because deep in your brain, you know that you have been together 25 years (9125 days) and the last 3 days have shown "effort".

This isn't to say "he'll never change" or "you should definitely leave".

It IS to say that maybe we can have a conversation about what "so much effort" means.

Again, on the same page as pursuingJoy -- unless you and the kids are in danger/unsafe, there's no rush. You can honor and pay attention to the questioning feeling of "maybe I should stay?" along with "I still want to leave".

When we interact with pwBPD a lot, sometimes we get drawn into their black-and-white thinking and their "make a decision NOW NOW NOW" vibes.

It can take a little un-training to get out of that, and learn new responses, even in our own minds, of "Let me think about that..." or "I'll need some time to consider..." or "Give me a few days, and I'll see what I think...".

Of course, if you are committed to being done, you are committed to being done. You can honor that, too.

I just think there is something to the statement you made that might be saying "I kind of think that "all this effort" from him might not be the real deal".

Ponder how long he'd have to put in "all this effort"... how long he'd have to sustain it... for it to mean it's a real change. I think that's the core idea I'm looking at here. Is 3 days enough for you to know it's the real deal? That's a question that only you can answer.

Just a bunch of food for thought...

kells76

[ForeverDad]

I wonder if it's because deep in your brain, you know that you have been together 25 years (9125 days) and the last 3 days have shown "effort".

This isn't to say "he'll never change" or "you should definitely leave".

It IS to say that maybe we can have a conversation about what "so much effort" means.

Ponder how long he'd have to put in "all this effort"... how long he'd have to sustain it... for it to mean it's a real change. I think that's the core idea I'm looking at here. Is 3 days enough for you to know it's the real deal? That's a question that only you can answer.

However, the odds are that it would be a monumental task for someone to make sufficient lasting improvements after 25 years of fruitless efforts on your part.

It's okay to have a counselor aid you in moderating a separation.  It's also okay to take time to determine whether there is hope for the marriage or not.  Or to get your strategies in place.  Just don't drag it out thinking that going slow is a kindness.

If you do separate and he does surprise, improve and reach a measure of solid recovery over extended time, you could always consider remarriage.  If he proves himself over time.  (Understand that distance does lessen some of the poor behaviors and in itself is not evidence of recovery.)