Validation v. appeasement. Defensiveness v. addressing mistruths/misconceptions

[outwest]

Hi all, I'm new here and am so relieved to have found this group. My 22 year old DD, a new college grad, is exhibiting signs of BPD. Though she was always a "willful" child, my husband and I chalked that up to personality, natural phases of childhood, and hormones. In many ways she has thrived. She's our eldest of three children.

When the pandemic hit and she was forced to leave her college campus and do online school from home, things took a significant turn. She began dumping on us in monologues about how we are, and were, bad parents. Blaming us for her own issues and those of her sister (who has some health and mental health struggles). Aggressively criticizing our decisions on parenting the others, on navigating the pandemic, on chores in the house, and on and on. And usually refusing to allow us to even speak and share our perspective — she'd storm out, or just shut us down.

Most of the time we listened to these rants, and we got into a pattern for these last 18 months of apologizing. Apologizing for things she felt we had done to hurt her, attempting to validate her feelings and express that it wasn't our intention. I thought we should let things slide a bit because of the pandemic — that when she got back on campus, things would get better. But things have escalated since then, and have been miserable since she graduated in May. She's gotten looser with the truth, accusing us of doing or saying things we haven't. She mischaracterizes our intentions, our words, and our actions, and then reacts with anger to those mischaracterizations. She says she doesn't feel supported by us, despite the significant financial support we've provided. We know she's feeling a lot of stress in this phase, and emotional support is what she needs, but we find it difficult to remain emotionally supportive when so many interactions are full of passive-aggressive verbal attacks and mischaracterizations. We've pulled back a bit emotionally to protect ourselves. (Though feel heartbroken, ashamed, and down about all this.)

So my two questions:
1. I'm learning that validation is key. But it seems like our efforts to validate her feelings just added strength to her narrative about how awful we are. Any thoughts on how to validate without apologizing when it isn't appropriate?

2. With these more recent bold accusations, we have tried calling her on them. "That's not true, I never said that." (Well, I was seething mad, and said that in a more angry way via text with an expletive — that did not go well. I hadn't read up on BPD yet. Live and learn.) "That's a mischaracterization of what we did. Here's what happened." "No, that wasn't my intention." However, I'm reading that it's important not to get defensive. But I fear if we let these things slide she'll accept them as the truth, and our silence will communicate that we believe them. Though in reality she doesn't seem to hear or take in these statements from us.

Thanks so much. I'm completely new to this painful BPD world and have a lot to learn.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

The questions you ask are the core issues in relating to someone with BPD in my opinion.

Re validating: I understand that it is an acknowledgement that the pain of the PBD person is real. They suffer intense emotions, feelings of abandonment etc. And I have read that there are significant brain differences that the BPD person is working through.

I find it hard to get a hold on why such blaming is a part of this awful illness.

Coming here has been great because it has helped me realise that it's not ME. People here with BPD children know what it is like to be a target.

I also found that trying to validate only increased the anger and the blaming. I then tried to think of it this way - if someone's emotions are really raised, then they need time to 'come down'. So  when my dd started to be abusive I would not speak. Then when she started screaming about me not saying anything, I would say 'I'm not talking while you are so angry as it is not helpful for me to do that'.

So that became my mantra - and (we are in the same house now) I now keep very quiet. DD is 31 so I imagine I'm in a sort of 'share house' - rather than a family scenario.

Re the wrong accusations, falsehoods etc. Once again it is so hard to understand. This is where I think BPD people drift into another reality (is it psychosis - not sure). Once again I found trying to have any discussion around what was true was like pouring petrol on a fire. So once again I have learnt to become silent or at the most say a few words 'I'm sad you think of things that way'.

Has your daughter had any help at all? Is it possible to look at that possibility?

In the long run, the best outcome will be if she can participate in a suitable program and practice the skills learnt. She is in a good position for this with the strong support she has been given.

I hope you keep coming here to feel the support of others who have the same experience as you.

[outwest]

Thank you Sancho for your reply. It’s so helpful to know I’m not alone.

I appreciate your thoughts on the catch-22 of validating and not defending. Like you, our efforts here seemed to have poured fuel on the fire.

Another thing I’m struggling with in our engagements with her is she’s no longer shouting. When she was doing the shouting rants, I could tell her that I was stepping away (though she accused me of being incapable of handling conflict when I did that!). Recently she speaks very calmly, which is good, but the content is unkind and not true. My husband and I end up angry and unsure how to navigate.

My dd is seeing a therapist, however there hasn’t been a BPD diagnosis. I suspect the therapist is buying into how our dd is characterizing us. I wish there was a way to signal to the therapist that BPD should be considered. Since my dd is an adult, I’m not involved with her therapy and if I were to contact them, they'd be obligated to share my communication with my daughter. At least, that’s my understanding.

I’m thinking about sharing an article on the Karpman drama triangles with my dd, when things have settled down. Let her know that I take responsibility for stepping into the rescuer role and now understand how that has damaged our relationship. Asking her if she’d be willing to work on our relationship together. And suggest we see a separate therapist together. Not sure that will work out, but seems worth a try.

[Sancho]

Yes I think it's worth a try. Your daughter is still young and she has already managed life quite well - with your support.

I wonder if part of the reason things have flared up is that she is at transition stage. BPD people don't cope well with transitions and the anxiety brings on all the blaming etc.

Good news that she has a therapist. I understand the frustration of not having input. I went through that as well. But I wonder if this is the start of your 'letting go'. My dd has said terrible things about me to others - and many people here have the same to deal with.

The more you try to 'have a say' the worse it seems to get.

Stepping back, bit by bit, might be the way to eventually re -engage with your daughter in the long run. It is hard to do but there does seem to be lots of positive aspects of the situation. Perhaps seeing a counsellor yourself might be a helpful step?

[ckee1999]

I'm also new here, so I'm not really any help, but I wanted to comment on one thing:
"Since my dd is an adult, I’m not involved with her therapy and if I were to contact them, they'd be obligated to share my communication with my daughter. At least, that’s my understanding."  Not sure if you're in the US or where, but for my son I asked the doctor/therapist - there's nothing stopping me from telling them anything.  They're not obligated to share that with my child (who is an adult).  They may choose not to read it or do anything with it, but I can send it.  You may want to speak with the clinic and ask if you'd be permitted to share your perspective and, if you did, whether that would be shared with your daughter.  It's worth asking at least.

In my case my son wanted me to talk to the therapist - presumably so the therapist could tell me how awful I am.  But to do this he signed a consent form and now the therapist and I can speak directly.  I have also participated in some of his therapy sessions so the therapist can see what I really say and how my son reacts.  It was actually once we started this that the topic of BPD even came up because before that the therapist only saw my son's 'side' of things. 

On another note - so much of what you say tells me I'm not alone.  This weekend I listened to my son speak with a crisis counselor telling them that my husband and I were abusive and that we should rot in jail while our daughter is taken away from us.  I actually laughed (he couldn't hear me) because it was so ridiculous.  He was hospitalized this weekend and released after a mental health evaluation deemed not to be a risk to himself despite having very clear signs of a suicide attempt.  He gave the doctors his version of reality which made everything our fault. 

I love what Sancho says and I'm really glad to be here.  You're not alone.  And now, neither am I.

[Sloth10]

My goodness, I’m in the same boat. My DD went from ignoring me to sending me a long message about how my behaviour affected her entire life. That I need to change. That if I do I will feel lighter. That I should agree to change for the benefit of not only myself but everyone around me. She told me I was pathetic for crying when I went to visit her and she refused to see me. (She’s living only at her Dad’s at the moment).

Only today she reiterated that to my partner.

She hasn’t said what changes she believes I should make.

It’s comforting to know it’s the BPD and I’m not some sort of abusive maniac Mother.

[hurtmom]

Hello Outwest
I am in nearly the exact same place as you, my daughter just graduated college and returned home, and it is not going well.
my husband and I put our heart and soul into raising our kids, so the hurtful way my daughter describes her life is not as all how we have seen it. It really is heartbreaking and I she says I was abusive because I did not validate her feelings.
I can tell we may be approaching a fork in the road. Her anger is all towards me and yet I feel like I dedicated my life to her so it is painful. I, like you, am stuck do I continue to pander to her ( which in turn just makes her disrespect me) or do I stop speaking to her. She has even changed or embellished on incidents that occurred and her recollection is really inaccurate but when I tell her that - she says see you are dismissing my memory or you are invalidating my feelings, it is exhausting
and I am scared and worried I will loss my baby