I have to say goodbye...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

We've been together for 10 years... It was intense, and for the most part good. Then I started to discover the lies. No matter how much money I made, no matter what new job I got that paid better, no matter how much overtime, or on call, we were always broke... I kept having to take out loans with family and friends or pay day loan places, make arrangements with companies we had services with or the landlord to hold on a few more days or a week. I was breaking down and was emotionally drained, and yet my wife kept saying that she didn't know what was happening with the money. This went on for years, and due to my emotional blindness coupled with how frantically busy I was (working full time + overtime + on call + doing almost all the household chores), I didn't catch on until several years later. She was transferring money to her credit cards and then buying things for her and her children (my step kids, although I'd always considered and raised them as mine since their own fathers were never in the picture for extended periods of time) while keeping me in the dark and telling the kids "don't tell ****, this is between us."

When I finally discovered this, I was floored. At first I didn't want to confront her. I kept bringing up things that I knew she lying about in conversation, but in a way that would allow her to come clean. One example was that she told me that she had found this "amazing deal" on groupon for flying lessons. 50.00 gave her multiple lessons and a certificate at the end! I was so happy that she had such an opportunity until I discovered that she was actually paying 370.00/lesson, and she was going multiple times a month... I tried to get her to come clean. "So it's only 50.00 and that's it? You don't have to pay anything else?" Her answer of course was "Yup! That's it!" We ended up moving into a new house because our old landlord was retiring and was selling our old place. When the same issues began to arise at the new house, I knew I had to act. I couldn't risk monthly late rent with a new landlord. I walked into our bedroom and she was sitting in bed playing on her tablet. I told her what I knew. At first she was very apologetic and it became clear that she would only admit to what I knew as she didn't volunteer any information unless I brought it up first. Then she would admit to it and apologize. We started going to counselling, and during the third session she said that her spending over the years was my fault because I hadn't put her on an allowance. I told her that I was very willing to be responsible for my actions, but I wasn't going to be responsible for her. "You never take responsibility for anything." was her response. The relationship had become quite toxic, and I asked for a separation to give us time to try to deal with our own individual issues and then come back together in couples counselling and move back in together. I was clear and unequivocal. I was not looking for a divorce. I did not expect her to move out right away. I told her she could take up to six months to save up and make sure she could afford to move out. Her reaction? I was asking for a divorce. I was just too much of a coward to come out and say it. She had to move out as fast as possible and it was too painful to stay in the house. She took an inventory and threw everything I ever bought her or made for her. She went into my office and tore herself out of our first picture we ever took together, and then put it back in the frame. About a week before she left, she drank an entire bottle of tequila, and started yelling at me, saying I was cheating on her. I ended up locking myself in my office and told her that I'd be willing to discuss anything she wanted once she sobered up. She ended up calling a close friend of mine and tried to convince him that I was cheating with his wife. She then made a huge mess on the main floor saying "that'll show him". Her two sons relayed that to me, and had cleaned it up before I came down in the morning as I'd fallen asleep in the office by that stage.

She ended up telling me that she found a place and would be moving in about a week. She refused to take any furniture with her saying it hurt too much to see anything that reminded her of here and had friends find second hand stuff for her online. About that time, due to a family sharing glitch on our IPhones which replicated any app installed on one phone to the other, I discovered that she had downloaded dating apps. I pulled myself out of family sharing, and she texted me within 10 minutes asking why I was distancing myself more from her. I told her I didn't want to see all the dating apps she was installing (two by then).  Her response was that she had downloaded them for ego and likes and had already deleted them. (The last one had been installed 20 minutes earlier.) A couple of days before moving out she asked with tearful eyes "So does this mean we're done?" "No." I replied. "We're separating so that we can both go to individual counselling until we can get a handle on our issues so that we can go back into couples counselling and come back together again. I don't want to lose you. I'm not divorcing you. I want us." She said she would sign up for counselling. Her two sons stayed with me as they strongly disagreed with what she was doing (one had gone as far as to have an argument with her because she kept telling him that I wanted a divorce and he kept saying "No mom. He doesn't. Just get to counselling so you can come home." She told him to read between the lines and implied I was lying. Her daughter (the youngest) left to stay with her.

Shortly after she had moved out, I couldn't get the thought of the dating apps out of my mind. I didn't quite believe what she told me. I made a fake account and went looking for her. I found her quite quickly and engaged her in conversation as my alter ego. I didn't hit on her or say anything suggestive. I simply pointed out what she had said in her profile (she'd mentioned how she enjoyed a certain food), and I also pointed out that I thought she sounded adventurous for liking scuba diving. After she responded to both, I asked what she was on the site for: A long term relationship, dating, or hooking up. Her response "Whatever happens, happens. You?" I never responded to anything else she said and didn't use that profile again. I tried to speak to her and show her that I cared for her, but nothing really came of it. I kept telling her that I wanted us to work out and that I hoped she would be seeing a counsellor soon (she said she was on a waiting list).

A few weeks later she messaged me saying she wanted to go back to couples counselling. I responded that I would be willing, but I had a proposal for her first, and asked if we could meet on the following Saturday (this was on Thursday of that week). She agreed. Saturday came and I met her at a Starbucks. My proposal was that I would agree to go to couples counselling if she could be honest about what was going on with the dating sites. She agreed. I was thrilled and hopeful so we agreed to go back to her place to talk since I didn't want to embarrass her by asking about those kinds of details in public. We went into her bedroom since our daughter was in the living room, closed the door, sat down on the bed and that's when everything went sideways. "You're not going to like what I have to say, but you want to know so here." She told me that within a span of less than two months she had slept with five men, one of them three times, and that the last time she had slept with that guy was the day before (Friday). That hit me like a ton of bricks. She knew I was coming to see her to give her what she said she wanted, couples counselling, and yet she (according to her) still called this guy, propositioned him, asked him to come over on Friday and slept with him, knowing I was coming to work on the marriage with her. She told me that she had cybered, sexted, flirted with and dated a bunch of other guys too. She watched me break down, held me while I cried for a half hour and then looked me in the eye and said "I'm sorry I hurt you." We ended up cuddling on the bed while my brain was going a million miles an hour. She turned to kiss me at one point and we ended up making out for a bit. She kept trying to get her leg over my hip and kept trying to grind herself on me and get me going. I couldn't get my hands anywhere below her waist. It was just too painful. Part of me wanted to be with her, but I just couldn't get past what she had done, and so although we did get sexual, her pants stayed on. Immediately afterward, she said "Now that I'm moving back in, you need to take on all the finances, and you're not allowed in your office unless you're working, and we have to go back to couples counselling right away." Shocked even more than I was before, I told her we weren't moving in together and she was getting way ahead of herself. She then went on to say that she didn't know why I had asked since she had told me that this wasn't going to be something I was going to like and now I needed to understand her reasons for doing it. I told her there wouldn't be a reason good enough to cheat on your spouse. She kept insisting and finally I said "There is no reason you can give me that'll justify this. Let me guess, you were lonely and felt abandoned." She nodded. I asked her if she needed sex that badly, why she hadn't called me instead of cheating on me as I was lonely too, but I hadn't cheated on her or even spoken to another woman in any inappropriate way. "I didn't think you liked me." was her answer. I was blown away. She then said that since the car was there, could I drive her to a couple of stores? I was so in shock I just went on autopilot and woodenly walked behind her to the car and into the different stores. You could have imagined a leash between us and it would have been an accurate picture. I followed behind her, lost in a world of pain while she talked away about this and that in a good mood. I tried to respond to what I heard, but there was no emotion in my voice. She picked up on that in the second store and said "Well I guess it wasn't a good idea for us to go out together huh?" I asked what made her say that. She said "It feels like you want to be anywhere but here." I was dumfounded. "Don't you understand how huge of a thing you've just dropped into my lap? I can barely think. I'm just trying to process it all." Her response: "Oh yeah, story of my life." in a casual voice. That brought me out of it long enough to say "With respect, no. Nothing I've done in our marriage can amount to this." She got angry and told me off saying I shouldn't judge her life. I dropped her off at her place with her purchases. "I love you. I know I shouldn't say it, but there." she said. I woodenly responded that I loved her too and drove home. About half way there I broke and spent the next week as a wreck.

My counsellor introduced the possibility that my wife may have BPD. She had private sessions with my wife and had also had couples counselling with her. That with what I told her about what had happened led her to be strongly of the opinion that she was.

That should have been the end of it, and I tried to end it too. I wrote up a heartfelt letter telling her how much I loved her, and valued our marriage, but that I couldn't get past the level of lies and betrayal that she had not only leveled at me, but felt justified in doing. I went to her house to give it to her. Long story short, she changed her stance. She told me that being separated was the same as being divorced in the eyes of the law, and that gave her the right to sleep with as many men as she wanted. I told that simply wasn't true, but she was adamant.  She tore up the letter without reading it and told me that if I felt the same in a week to bring her another copy and she'd agree to the divorce then. She followed that up with a text a day later changing the "deadline" to two weeks.

I ended up having to go to one final family (hers) get together as I had her two sons with me and had to bring them. Big mistake. No one made me feel unwelcome, in fact they were welcoming and kind, but the memories from that house (we had helped them renovate and paint it, and had come over often) hit me hard and I spent a lot of the time in the upstairs bathroom falling apart.

The next day I thought I had nothing to lose in telling my wife about BPD. I messaged her online and told her that based on conversations we'd had previously (I didn't mention the counsellor's opinion) where she told me that she couldn't remember large parts of her past, the fact that she felt like she had a huge unfillable hole in her, the fact that she had a very low self image and that she had suffered childhood trauma led me to believe it was at least possible that she had BPD. I told her I wasn't a professional and that I obviously couldn't diagnose her, but that she should maybe bring it up with her counsellor when she got one. I sent her articles on BPD and a study that showed a link between BPD and memory loss in some cases. I expected her to get angry, but I thought maybe she would look into it in the future. Her reaction wasn't at all what I expected. "Wow, this sounds like me." I was stunned, but hopeful at the same time. I wanted to encourage her. I sent her an article on DBT, and told her that if she did have BPD, there was a treatment and she could get relief. She posted a crying emoji and said (I should have taken this as a red flag, but I was too emotionally turbulent to think) that after all this time of her telling me she had a problem I finally find her a solution and now it's too late as we're getting a divorce. charm warning, I knowI felt bad for her. "So you're willing to do whatever it takes to get better?" She said she was. I called her, and she was crying on the phone. I told her I would be willing to look at the possibility of us staying together if she was willing to get help. She said she was. After I put something together in writing the next day, she immediately agreed to it, but said she was processing it and needed time to think. She said she had her own conditions. I told her I couldn't wait to hear about them. She said she'd send them to me later. Almost two weeks later that day has yet to come. She had a four day weekend planned, and spent it all with her friends. Even when she ended up cancelling on one friend she still didn't spend any time with me, even when I asked her. When I suggested that we get together to review her list and discuss mine, she ghosted me for over 24 hours. (This from the person that flips out and tells me I hate her if I don't respond to her texts within five minutes.) I've had enough. I'm going to be telling her tomorrow that we're done, and yet I'm STILL feeling guilty and hate that I have to hurt her... I'm going to counselling (I have for the last six months), I've just started going to Codependents anonymous and I'm planning on going no contact once the divorce has been settled, but man does this hurt right now, and I am dreading what I have to do.

[Scarredheart]

We've been together for 10 years... It was intense, and for the most part good. Then I started to discover the lies. No matter how much money I made, no matter what new job I got that paid better, no matter how much overtime, or on call, we were always broke... I kept having to take out loans with family and friends or pay day loan places, make arrangements with companies we had services with or the landlord to hold on a few more days or a week. I was breaking down and was emotionally drained, and yet my wife kept saying that she didn't know what was happening with the money. This went on for years, and due to my emotional blindness coupled with how frantically busy I was (working full time + overtime + on call + doing almost all the household chores), I didn't catch on until several years later. She was transferring money to her credit cards and then buying things for her and her children (my step kids, although I'd always considered and raised them as mine since their own fathers were never in the picture for extended periods of time) while keeping me in the dark and telling the kids "don't tell ****, this is between us."

When I finally discovered this, I was floored. At first I didn't want to confront her. I kept bringing up things that I knew she lying about in conversation, but in a way that would allow her to come clean. One example was that she told me that she had found this "amazing deal" on groupon for flying lessons. 50.00 gave her multiple lessons and a certificate at the end! I was so happy that she had such an opportunity until I discovered that she was actually paying 370.00/lesson, and she was going multiple times a month... I tried to get her to come clean. "So it's only 50.00 and that's it? You don't have to pay anything else?" Her answer of course was "Yup! That's it!" We ended up moving into a new house because our old landlord was retiring and was selling our old place. When the same issues began to arise at the new house, I knew I had to act. I couldn't risk monthly late rent with a new landlord. I walked into our bedroom and she was sitting in bed playing on her tablet. I told her what I knew. At first she was very apologetic and it became clear that she would only admit to what I knew as she didn't volunteer any information unless I brought it up first. Then she would admit to it and apologize. We started going to counselling, and during the third session she said that her spending over the years was my fault because I hadn't put her on an allowance. I told her that I was very willing to be responsible for my actions, but I wasn't going to be responsible for her. "You never take responsibility for anything." was her response. The relationship had become quite toxic, and I asked for a separation to give us time to try to deal with our own individual issues and then come back together in couples counselling and move back in together. I was clear and unequivocal. I was not looking for a divorce. I did not expect her to move out right away. I told her she could take up to six months to save up and make sure she could afford to move out. Her reaction? I was asking for a divorce. I was just too much of a coward to come out and say it. She had to move out as fast as possible and it was too painful to stay in the house. She took an inventory and threw everything I ever bought her or made for her. She went into my office and tore herself out of our first picture we ever took together, and then put it back in the frame. About a week before she left, she drank an entire bottle of tequila, and started yelling at me, saying I was cheating on her. I ended up locking myself in my office and told her that I'd be willing to discuss anything she wanted once she sobered up. She ended up calling a close friend of mine and tried to convince him that I was cheating with his wife. She then made a huge mess on the main floor saying "that'll show him". Her two sons relayed that to me, and had cleaned it up before I came down in the morning as I'd fallen asleep in the office by that stage.

She ended up telling me that she found a place and would be moving in about a week. She refused to take any furniture with her saying it hurt too much to see anything that reminded her of here and had friends find second hand stuff for her online. About that time, due to a family sharing glitch on our IPhones which replicated any app installed on one phone to the other, I discovered that she had downloaded dating apps. I pulled myself out of family sharing, and she texted me within 10 minutes asking why I was distancing myself more from her. I told her I didn't want to see all the dating apps she was installing (two by then).  Her response was that she had downloaded them for ego and likes and had already deleted them. (The last one had been installed 20 minutes earlier.) A couple of days before moving out she asked with tearful eyes "So does this mean we're done?" "No." I replied. "We're separating so that we can both go to individual counselling until we can get a handle on our issues so that we can go back into couples counselling and come back together again. I don't want to lose you. I'm not divorcing you. I want us." She said she would sign up for counselling. Her two sons stayed with me as they strongly disagreed with what she was doing (one had gone as far as to have an argument with her because she kept telling him that I wanted a divorce and he kept saying "No mom. He doesn't. Just get to counselling so you can come home." She told him to read between the lines and implied I was lying. Her daughter (the youngest) left to stay with her.

Shortly after she had moved out, I couldn't get the thought of the dating apps out of my mind. I didn't quite believe what she told me. I made a fake account and went looking for her. I found her quite quickly and engaged her in conversation as my alter ego. I didn't hit on her or say anything suggestive. I simply pointed out what she had said in her profile (she'd mentioned how she enjoyed a certain food), and I also pointed out that I thought she sounded adventurous for liking scuba diving. After she responded to both, I asked what she was on the site for: A long term relationship, dating, or hooking up. Her response "Whatever happens, happens. You?" I never responded to anything else she said and didn't use that profile again. I tried to speak to her and show her that I cared for her, but nothing really came of it. I kept telling her that I wanted us to work out and that I hoped she would be seeing a counsellor soon (she said she was on a waiting list).

A few weeks later she messaged me saying she wanted to go back to couples counselling. I responded that I would be willing, but I had a proposal for her first, and asked if we could meet on the following Saturday (this was on Thursday of that week). She agreed. Saturday came and I met her at a Starbucks. My proposal was that I would agree to go to couples counselling if she could be honest about what was going on with the dating sites. She agreed. I was thrilled and hopeful so we agreed to go back to her place to talk since I didn't want to embarrass her by asking about those kinds of details in public. We went into her bedroom since our daughter was in the living room, closed the door, sat down on the bed and that's when everything went sideways. "You're not going to like what I have to say, but you want to know so here." She told me that within a span of less than two months she had slept with five men, one of them three times, and that the last time she had slept with that guy was the day before (Friday). That hit me like a ton of bricks. She knew I was coming to see her to give her what she said she wanted, couples counselling, and yet she (according to her) still called this guy, propositioned him, asked him to come over on Friday and slept with him, knowing I was coming to work on the marriage with her. She told me that she had cybered, sexted, flirted with and dated a bunch of other guys too. She watched me break down, held me while I cried for a half hour and then looked me in the eye and said "I'm sorry I hurt you." We ended up cuddling on the bed while my brain was going a million miles an hour. She turned to kiss me at one point and we ended up making out for a bit. She kept trying to get her leg over my hip and kept trying to grind herself on me and get me going. I couldn't get my hands anywhere below her waist. It was just too painful. Part of me wanted to be with her, but I just couldn't get past what she had done, and so although we did get sexual, her pants stayed on. Immediately afterward, she said "Now that I'm moving back in, you need to take on all the finances, and you're not allowed in your office unless you're working, and we have to go back to couples counselling right away." Shocked even more than I was before, I told her we weren't moving in together and she was getting way ahead of herself. She then went on to say that she didn't know why I had asked since she had told me that this wasn't going to be something I was going to like and now I needed to understand her reasons for doing it. I told her there wouldn't be a reason good enough to cheat on your spouse. She kept insisting and finally I said "There is no reason you can give me that'll justify this. Let me guess, you were lonely and felt abandoned." She nodded. I asked her if she needed sex that badly, why she hadn't called me instead of cheating on me as I was lonely too, but I hadn't cheated on her or even spoken to another woman in any inappropriate way. "I didn't think you liked me." was her answer. I was blown away. She then said that since the car was there, could I drive her to a couple of stores? I was so in shock I just went on autopilot and woodenly walked behind her to the car and into the different stores. You could have imagined a leash between us and it would have been an accurate picture. I followed behind her, lost in a world of pain while she talked away about this and that in a good mood. I tried to respond to what I heard, but there was no emotion in my voice. She picked up on that in the second store and said "Well I guess it wasn't a good idea for us to go out together huh?" I asked what made her say that. She said "It feels like you want to be anywhere but here." I was dumfounded. "Don't you understand how huge of a thing you've just dropped into my lap? I can barely think. I'm just trying to process it all." Her response: "Oh yeah, story of my life." in a casual voice. That brought me out of it long enough to say "With respect, no. Nothing I've done in our marriage can amount to this." She got angry and told me off saying I shouldn't judge her life. I dropped her off at her place with her purchases. "I love you. I know I shouldn't say it, but there." she said. I woodenly responded that I loved her too and drove home. About half way there I broke and spent the next week as a wreck.

My counsellor introduced the possibility that my wife may have BPD. She had private sessions with my wife and had also had couples counselling with her. That with what I told her about what had happened led her to be strongly of the opinion that she was.

That should have been the end of it, and I tried to end it too. I wrote up a heartfelt letter telling her how much I loved her, and valued our marriage, but that I couldn't get past the level of lies and betrayal that she had not only leveled at me, but felt justified in doing. I went to her house to give it to her. Long story short, she changed her stance. She told me that being separated was the same as being divorced in the eyes of the law, and that gave her the right to sleep with as many men as she wanted. I told that simply wasn't true, but she was adamant.  She tore up the letter without reading it and told me that if I felt the same in a week to bring her another copy and she'd agree to the divorce then. She followed that up with a text a day later changing the "deadline" to two weeks.

I ended up having to go to one final family (hers) get together as I had her two sons with me and had to bring them. Big mistake. No one made me feel unwelcome, in fact they were welcoming and kind, but the memories from that house (we had helped them renovate and paint it, and had come over often) hit me hard and I spent a lot of the time in the upstairs bathroom falling apart.

The next day I thought I had nothing to lose in telling my wife about BPD. I messaged her online and told her that based on conversations we'd had previously (I didn't mention the counsellor's opinion) where she told me that she couldn't remember large parts of her past, the fact that she felt like she had a huge unfillable hole in her, the fact that she had a very low self image and that she had suffered childhood trauma led me to believe it was at least possible that she had BPD. I told her I wasn't a professional and that I obviously couldn't diagnose her, but that she should maybe bring it up with her counsellor when she got one. I sent her articles on BPD and a study that showed a link between BPD and memory loss in some cases. I expected her to get angry, but I thought maybe she would look into it in the future. Her reaction wasn't at all what I expected. "Wow, this sounds like me." I was stunned, but hopeful at the same time. I wanted to encourage her. I sent her an article on DBT, and told her that if she did have BPD, there was a treatment and she could get relief. She posted a crying emoji and said (I should have taken this as a red flag, but I was too emotionally turbulent to think) that after all this time of her telling me she had a problem I finally find her a solution and now it's too late as we're getting a divorce. charm warning, I knowI felt bad for her. "So you're willing to do whatever it takes to get better?" She said she was. I called her, and she was crying on the phone. I told her I would be willing to look at the possibility of us staying together if she was willing to get help. She said she was. After I put something together in writing the next day, she immediately agreed to it, but said she was processing it and needed time to think. She said she had her own conditions. I told her I couldn't wait to hear about them. She said she'd send them to me later. Almost two weeks later that day has yet to come. She had a four day weekend planned, and spent it all with her friends. Even when she ended up cancelling on one friend she still didn't spend any time with me, even when I asked her. When I suggested that we get together to review her list and discuss mine, she ghosted me for over 24 hours. (This from the person that flips out and tells me I hate her if I don't respond to her texts within five minutes.) I've had enough. I'm going to be telling her tomorrow that we're done, and yet I'm STILL feeling guilty and hate that I have to hurt her... I'm going to counselling (I have for the last six months), I've just started going to Codependents anonymous and I'm planning on going no contact once the divorce has been settled, but man does this hurt right now, and I am dreading what I have to do.

[Scarredheart]

Sorry for some reason the text got changed in one of the last bolded sections from h o o v e r warning I know to charm warning, I know. No idea why. Why does it keep changing that word?

[B53]

Hi Scarredheart,

I’m so sorry for what you are going through. The more you read about BPD and the the posts on this site, the more your past will start to make sense. It will amaze you as to how similar your situation is to others. I can’t tell you how many times I have read a post, thinking I could of written that. People with BPD and situations are all different, yet the same. You will read often about FOG, fear obligation and guilt. Stick around, the group here is like family and will help you get through this. Friends and family are important right now, but no one can truly understand what you went through unless they have lived it. It’s hard to fathom even when you know it happened. It takes a while to realize the extent of what you have been through.

My ex was doing the DBT and for us it didn’t help. I think too much damage had already been done and if it works, it takes time.

Do your best to take care of yourself! You did not cause this and you could not have done anything to fix it. The best you could have done is try to manage it differently, if you had known, which you didn’t, like most of us here. Cry, get angry, vent, whatever you need to do. The best I can tell you is that IT DOES GET BETTER!

Hang in there,
B53

[Scarredheart]

You did not cause this and you could not have done anything to fix it. The best you could have done is try to manage it differently, if you had known, which you didn’t, like most of us here.

It's crazy. I was just thinking yesterday how if I had known about BPD, I wouldn't have asked for the separation and would have tried to help her in other ways. Then I remembered that I had recently found emails from before I had even spoken to her about the finances and our downward spiral began showing that she was registering for "find threesomes in your area". It blew my mind. The fact that before anything was starting to spiral and go majorly downhill (at least from my perspective) she was already looking elsewhere.

It makes me wonder if I ever really knew her. You can honestly go crazy with the amount of analysis that your brain goes through. Reality really takes a back seat sometimes...

[marv1995]

Hi Scarredheart! I'm so sorry for what you're going through, but please don't blame yourself. I knew all about BPD, adjusted my responses, and even started therapy myself and still couldn't save my relationship. You can only do so much, then it's up to them to get help (and WANT to get better). My ex refused.

[Scarredheart]

Hi Scarredheart! I'm so sorry for what you're going through, but please don't blame yourself. I knew all about BPD, adjusted my responses, and even started therapy myself and still couldn't save my relationship. You can only do so much, then it's up to them to get help (and WANT to get better). My ex refused.

Thanks. It's really tough. I'm letting her know I'm asking for a divorce tonight. I know that short of her coming to me and saying "I've realized I'm really broken inside and I need to work on myself. I'm going into counselling and treatment and need to be on my own for a few years while I work this out. Would you be willing to wait for me?" there's nothing else that I could see working for us.

Yeah, I think that's one of the real heart wrenching things to me, that even going to treatment if it's not what they want, and they're doing it for you, will not fix them. So all I'd be doing by staying with her is destroying myself and feeding her needs until she decided to discard me.

[Happiness40]

Your story resonated with me so deeply. Only my husband had been gambling all our money away. He refused to allow me access to any finances and it went down the same road refused to admit anything gaslighted me with half truths and trying to convince me I was confused over money etc.

I realised he had BPD last August just after I discovered the gambling. He did start to get treatment but the damage was already to deep for me. He also carried on lying and you can’t rebuild trust with a pathological liar.

I ended up having him arrested for coercive control in may and the heart break I have felt is nothing I have ever felt before in my life. I trusted and loved him so much and the betrayal I felt and still feel is crushing like someone is squeezing your lungs and you have to just live like that on a daily basis and then add the confusion on top it’s a lot to cope with.

I feel better 3 months out but I still feel incredibly sad about the loss of my 10 year relationship and nearly 3 year marriage.
I always wish I could have done something to change the outcome for us all as a family.

My Husband was my best fried but then also if he was really a best friend would he have emotionally abused me for years. I don’t know I am waiting to re start counselling again.
We start mediation in 2 weeks to sort out the last bits of the separation and reading that email has me in a tail spin. I knew and know the relationship has completely gone to a point of no return but the deep sorrow I feel at the loss is devastating.

I am in a place now where I know what I’m doing each day and I’m no longer breaking down crying or getting into fits of so much anger so maybe I am through the worse. God I hope so.

My husband has  gone on to reinvent himself into so sort of goth
He has got over 20 tattoos in a month and completely changed he’s image to black and skulls and what not.
The confusion my kids feel from this I mean I don’t know how to coach them through that. Personally I think he’s trying to mirror someone he’s met somewhere to make it look like he has a connection with them. I have to remind myself he’s not replacing me just he’s supply.

Did I know him? no probably not he doesn’t know who he is himself .

I really hope you start to feel better soon I remember them 1st weeks well and they were so hard your not alone

[Scarredheart]

He refused to allow me access to any finances and it went down the same road refused to admit anything gaslighted me with half truths and trying to convince me I was confused over money etc.

She did that to me too! For years I thought I was going crazy because she kept telling me that she had no idea where all the money was going, and when I finally figure it out and confront her, within a month she goes from “I’m so sorry, I couldn’t stop myself” to  “It’s a coping mechanism and I had to do it.” to finally “I really wonder if you love me as you say you do why you wouldn’t take over the finances right away when you figured out what was happening. I don’t think you do love me since you left me to deal with this on my own.” Of course she seems to forget how I pursued her again and again to try and have a short 30-45 minute meeting to understand the scope of our finances so I could indeed take them over and how she refused again and again to have said meeting saying “I don’t see why we have to discuss anything.”

I realised he had BPD last August just after I discovered the gambling. He did start to get treatment but the damage was already to deep for me. He also carried on lying and you can’t rebuild trust with a pathological liar.

I only figured out she had BPD after I had called for a separation. My counsellor who had private sessions with my wife and couples sessions with her afterward told me that although she couldn’t officially diagnose her, she strongly thought that she had BPD.

Throughout our 10 years together and the 5 years of marriage she never admitted to anything that I didn’t confront her with proof. Even then, she would only admit to as far as the proof I had would show and nothing more. If I discovered more, then she would change her position and agree that yes, that was also true, but she had reasons for that too. It was like a constantly evolving game of clue where everyone loses. Every time I found something new, my heart would break that much more. The pure innocent and obviously naive belief I had that I could implicitly trust my wife was broken apart piece by piece and I was left crawling on my belly through glass towards her, but she was always just out of reach.

I trusted and loved him so much and the betrayal I felt and still feel is crushing like someone is squeezing your lungs and you have to just live like that on a daily basis and then add the confusion on top it’s a lot to cope with.

I feel the same about my wife. When we were first together, I thought I had found “the one”. She was so charming, so funny, so carefree, so loving and so open (or so I thought). I was in heaven. Then that was taken from me piece by piece and she acted like I was the problem and that she hadn’t changed. I started to doubt myself, doubt my sanity. I thought I had it rough in my previous relationship with a person who had NPD, but she was so much more subtle. (Obviously I didn’t learn anything since I went from an NPD to a BPD, but I’m learning now.) She would gaslight me in ways that I didn’t even catch on to. It’s like she had a direct line to my subconscious and was just spoon-feeding it my new reality as we went along. At first it was almost imperceptible, but as time went on she would say more and more how I was changing, how I was the problem, how I had to fix her issues if I loved her, how if I would only behave this way, she wouldn’t be doing this or that so ultimately is was my fault. For a while I actually believed it, and came very close to suicide. If it wasn’t for my faith and close members of my family I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be typing this now.

I feel better 3 months out but I still feel incredibly sad about the loss of my 10 year relationship and nearly 3 year marriage.
I always wish I could have done something to change the outcome for us all as a family.

I know it’ll be a “one day at a time” thing for me for a long time. As I understand it, it takes roughly one month of serious work on my part for each year of the relationship to start coming back to normalcy. I’m looking forward to the time where I can stop thinking about her at all and just be thankful to have come through the storm.

I spend a lot of time thinking about the impact this relationship has had on our kids. She had three kids when I met her and I’ve raised them as my own, and think of them as mine. Our two sons split from her after the scene she caused when we started the separation and now want nothing to do with her. They’ve gone as far as to say that if they ever have kids, they will never allow them near her. That breaks my heart. Our daughter is another story. She’s glued herself to her mother for the past two years (as things came to a head between us) and is staying with my wife. In my opinion, she’s begun displaying symptoms of BPD as well and that breaks my heart. I really miss the days when we were a family, all sitting in the living room laughing and joking and enjoying each other’s company. I’d happily give a leg to have that back if it was real, but was it ever real for her? I’ll never know.

My Husband was my best fried but then also if he was really a best friend would he have emotionally abused me for years. I don’t know I am waiting to re start counselling again.
We start mediation in 2 weeks to sort out the last bits of the separation and reading that email has me in a tail spin. I knew and know the relationship has completely gone to a point of no return but the deep sorrow I feel at the loss is devastating.

That’s how I feel too. I thought she was my best friend. Early on, we had shared our life’s story with each other. She knows things about me that no other person on the planet does. I remember thinking “This is a person that knows everything about me, and still calls me the best person she’s ever met and the love of her life.” There was such freedom in that. Now, not only do I know that the life story that she shared with me was, in part at least, lies, but knowing what she knew about me, knowing that the absolute worst thing she could do to hurt me was cheat on me, she didn’t hesitate and did it many times in a short period. Did she ever love me? I’ll never know.

I am in a place now where I know what I’m doing each day and I’m no longer breaking down crying or getting into fits of so much anger so maybe I am through the worse. God I hope so.

I’m glad you’re healing. I really look forward to the day I’ll be there too. I’ve never been a person who cries often, and definitely not someone who regularly breaks down, but I have wailed for hours over her until I felt that my heart was surely going to erupt from my eyes and land on the floor. To the point that it looked like someone had given me a black eye in both eyes. I never thought I’d ever be at that point, and would never have expected it to be because of her.

My husband has  gone on to reinvent himself into so sort of goth
He has got over 20 tattoos in a month and completely changed he’s image to black and skulls and what not.
The confusion my kids feel from this I mean I don’t know how to coach them through that. Personally I think he’s trying to mirror someone he’s met somewhere to make it look like he has a connection with them. I have to remind myself he’s not replacing me just he’s supply.

I hope I never find out what she’s going to do next. I’m trying to limit myself to the absolute minimum amount of communication and interaction possible. Since our boys are with me, and we still need to complete the divorce, NC isn’t possible yet, but I don’t want to know anything she’s doing these days. I need to let her go.

Did I know him? no probably not he doesn’t know who he is himself .

I really hope you start to feel better soon I remember them 1st weeks well and they were so hard your not alone

That’s a question I find myself asking again and again. Did I ever know her? I have to remember that she probably doesn’t know herself, so how could I ever expect to know her? It’s hard though. I made it my mission to be able to read her facial expressions, listen to the tone of her voice, to the way she stood, or the words she used to know how she felt and to be there for her in any way I could. Now I wonder “Who did I learn about? Was any of that really her?”

Thanks for reaching out. I’m looking forward to the end of the pain, when I can go to bed without missing the feeling of her at my back, the sound of her breathing during the night, when I can sleep and not dream of her, and wake up and not have her as my first thought.

One day at a time.

[Happiness40]

One thing that helped me so massively was a friend saying to me “maybe just maybe all these feelings are not just from the break up”
Imagine it as all these feelings for all them years that have had to be suppressed to make them feel loved. Then they are no longer there so the lids finally off and the upset from the break up is the lid coming off of all the feelings from over the years.
Then I started to identify with what I was angry about and what I was sad about and then I broke them down and they were easier to cope with one at a time.
So when I was angry I put music on and walked with it and when I was sad I sat with it for 30 minutes and then I started making myself do something for me, that part has been the hardest, who am I now without him.
I seem to have so many more lonely hours now that I need to fill my time with but I am trying to do that with healthy things rather than quick fixes.
Go out with friends even if you don’t feel like .it go honestly as they say misery loves company. You will start to laugh and notice things more and more as the world around us carry’s on.

You honestly are going to be more than ok! your love kept that relationship going all by itself for 10 years so your love will get you through this.

Maybe we could keep track on how we’re both feeling as the weeks go on and spur each other on

[Scarredheart]

One thing that helped me so massively was a friend saying to me “maybe just maybe all these feelings are not just from the break up”
Imagine it as all these feelings for all them years that have had to be suppressed to make them feel loved. Then they are no longer there so the lids finally off and the upset from the break up is the lid coming off of all the feelings from over the years.
Then I started to identify with what I was angry about and what I was sad about and then I broke them down and they were easier to cope with one at a time.
So when I was angry I put music on and walked with it and when I was sad I sat with it for 30 minutes and then I started making myself do something for me, that part has been the hardest, who am I now without him.
I seem to have so many more lonely hours now that I need to fill my time with but I am trying to do that with healthy things rather than quick fixes.
Go out with friends even if you don’t feel like .it go honestly as they say misery loves company. You will start to laugh and notice things more and more as the world around us carry’s on.

I hadn’t considered that. Bottled up emotions build up quickly and when they’re released take a long time to process. I’m going to give that serious consideration, thank you.

You honestly are going to be more than ok! your love kept that relationship going all by itself for 10 years so your love will get you through this.

Thank you, I hope so. It’s hard to see beyond the day I’m in sometimes. My sister keeps saying “One day at a time”, and I’m trying to live that. I’ve always been a planner. I don’t like surprises that I can’t prepare for in some way. I don’t mean that I need to understand every outcome, but I do like to be prepared. It’s hard for me to not look ahead and try to prep myself for whatever is to come, but you can’t prep for how you’re going to feel, especially when your thoughts and emotions are in flux and so chaotic. One day at a time has to be my reality for now, so I’ll stick to it and focus on the moment.

Maybe we could keep track on how we’re both feeling as the weeks go on and spur each other on

Thank you, I’d like that. It’d be nice to have a progress buddy. 

[poppy2]

Hi ScarredHeart,

Although I lived through a really different situation, I just wanted to validate how hard the end of the story sounded, this part:

"She posted a crying emoji and said (I should have taken this as a red flag, but I was too emotionally turbulent to think) that after all this time of her telling me she had a problem I finally find her a solution and now it's too late as we're getting a divorce. charm warning, I knowI felt bad for her. "So you're willing to do whatever it takes to get better?" She said she was. I called her, and she was crying on the phone. I told her I would be willing to look at the possibility of us staying together if she was willing to get help. She said she was. "

I could recognize exactly how this feels. You wanted something better than the current situation, and you were willing to work through it with somebody else, and they then told you what you wanted to hear. I went through this as well, where hooks were dangled into front of like me "oh now it's too late but there are definitely things I should have told you about myself" and because you don't have major trust or truth issues, you believe it. This happened to me when I set the first major boundary in my last relationship, and afterwards I got back together with them since I believed their sorrys etc... and only entered a much, much worse situation. I can understand your feelings of guilt or wishing it would be otherwise, even though you've also reached the point of believing the reality of your eyes, namely that your ex-partner is toying with your feelings and wasn't honest with you. It's awful to be made to feel like that. There are so many questions that arise out of the double bind that people will PD's put us in, and they can be so torturous. I don't have any answers to those questions but I'm hoping that sharing my recogition of this part of your story will make you like your reality is more validated, also because that's what I know I need / have needed about many things. Best of luck.

[Scarredheart]

I could recognize exactly how this feels. You wanted something better than the current situation, and you were willing to work through it with somebody else, and they then told you what you wanted to hear. I went through this as well, where hooks were dangled into front of like me "oh now it's too late but there are definitely things I should have told you about myself" and because you don't have major trust or truth issues, you believe it. This happened to me when I set the first major boundary in my last relationship, and afterwards I got back together with them since I believed their sorrys etc... and only entered a much, much worse situation. I can understand your feelings of guilt or wishing it would be otherwise, even though you've also reached the point of believing the reality of your eyes, namely that your ex-partner is toying with your feelings and wasn't honest with you. It's awful to be made to feel like that. There are so many questions that arise out of the double bind that people will PD's put us in, and they can be so torturous. I don't have any answers to those questions but I'm hoping that sharing my recogition of this part of your story will make you like your reality is more validated, also because that's what I know I need / have needed about many things. Best of luck.

Yeah, it's really hard. She just tried to pull me back in tonight. I had to stand my ground and refuse to budge, even when she was crying on the phone. It's really hard, but the alternative is so much worse.

[Selfishsally]

Yeah, it's really hard. She just tried to pull me back in tonight. I had to stand my ground and refuse to budge, even when she was crying on the phone. It's really hard, but the alternative is so much worse.

Wow! Great job staying strong! It is so enticing when all you want is that happy family and in the moment it seems like that could happen.

[Scarredheart]

Wow! Great job staying strong! It is so enticing when all you want is that happy family and in the moment it seems like that could happen.

I would give anything, ANYTHING to have my family whole. The problem is I cannot ever trust what she says as she says that my words and actions prove nothing as it’s only her perceptions of me is what truly matters as my words and actions don’t match her perception of me, therefore I’m not to be trusted. You can’t reason with that kind of logic, especially when how she feels dictates what she’s allowed to do.

[Selfishsally]

Absolutely. You didn't get the experience of what a true marriage relationship should be. You deserve to have that if thats what you want. You can grieve what should have been but no one can tell you who you really are. Only you can do that

[Scarredheart]

Absolutely. You didn't get the experience of what a true marriage relationship should be. You deserve to have that if thats what you want. You can grieve what should have been but no one can tell you who you really are. Only you can do that

It’s definitely what I want. I know it won’t be with her, and as heartbreaking as that is, I can’t be responsible for her choices. In this case I can’t save her because only she can make the choice to seek treatment. I can only save me.

[Ad Meliora]

This is a truly terrible tale, Scarredheart. I'm sorry you had to endure such trauma, I feel for you.  You must feel horribly betrayed, angry, frustrated not to mention completely confused!  You gave a decade of your life to this person and you're being disregarded like a candy wrapper on a run to the drugstore.  Wow.  The lying about it is the worst part, though isn't it?  If she was funneling money to help her kids and gave you a heartfelt apology that was honest, that would be one thing.  Instead you got excuses and half-truths and putting it back onto you.  Thankfully, you found a councillor to help you identify what was going on and your soon to be ex-wife can likely get some help and you can get some answers.

It's all part of the illness, and many behaviors and parts of your story seem very familiar to me.  Although the extent of what you experienced is so much more severe I'll share here my experiences on money, etc...

My BPDex liked to gamble, liked to shop, and liked to spend money--especially money she didn't have.  It wasn't really clear to me at first, but she was on her phone for hours a day shopping and looking at prices of things.  If I would suggest that maybe such and such an item would be nice (some day) she would look it up immediately and start pricing it out.  She had credit debts in the 10's of thousands when her income was 0.  This only became clear when she had a windfall come her way from some family business of $17k (US) and she said to me that she had to "run to her creditors" with that instead of enjoying the funds.

She was a projector. Just as your wife said to you "You're cheating...You don't take responsibility" when she was the one with those behaviors. My BPDx would say: "Don't you have any empathy?" (Not any more, you vamped it all out!), "Don't you want to play the field and date other people?" (No, I'm madly in love with you, why would I do that?). "You have anxiety issues." (Yes I do, because you ghost me for days/weeks at a time).  She was the one with these traits.  I only figured this out months later after breaking it off.  She was trying to project her illness onto me, so she could run scott-free from it.

There's the black-and-white thinking too.  You broke up to work on things and she's sleeping with guys immediately, her excuse, "you don't love me anymore".  As a NON this is all but impossible to comprehend.  You're devastated, going through this potential divorce and your world is unraveling and in 5 minutes she's on a dating app hooking up with some dudes (maybe we can put this in the 'object permanence' category too).  Unbelievable, unless you understand your partner has BPD.  You were dead to her, you were no longer the loving mate but a traitor of love.

And on the topic of love.  Can BPD's love?  Genuinely express love?  I've come to better understand my ex with covert narcissism and the answer is: No.  We all know they are adept and adroit and dropping the word in at the appropriate time and place, but perhaps they are just factoring a calculated equation.  Inserting punctuation in a rote writing assignment, and the exclamation point goes...wait for it, right here!

Looking back, did she regularly compliment you when you achieved success, a new job, etc...?  Did you feel supported emotionally by her, and did she comfort you in times of need?  Was she honest with you through the relationship and tell you when she made mistakes?  Did she accept responsibility when things she did hurt you?  Think about it.  These are just some of the things adults do in a loving relationship.

My BPDex failed in the action portion of the above test.  The words were there, but hollow without the actions to support them.

I wish you the best Scarredheart, and thanks for the link you posted on my first thread.

[Snowflake90]

First of all, sorry for all that you're going through, Scarred.
So much that has been said resonates deeply with me.
I was married for 6 years to a BPDw and we had 2 kids. She also spent great parts of the day looking stuff up online and buying 'em. The credit card bill alone would be, often times, more than my monthly salary, and she didn't work. I still had other bills to pay too, like school and other expenses. She'd also buy with the debit card. I was always on the red. Luckily I had some reserves but they were quickly drained to cover her expenses. When confronted, she'd reply the exact same thing: "I don't know where all the money is going". I've suspected she would buy stuff for my in-laws but never had the guts to check every expense with her. Also her personal credit card detailed bill was always off-limits for me. (Even though I paid it).
Substitute cheating with other men to cheating with a knife and there you have my story. She promised to stop self harming numerous times, only to self harm and play with suicide. Her self harm was pretty severe, mind you. Always an ER trip with several stitches to the affected limb. Her scars really turned me off. She had keloids throughout her body.
In the final weeks before the divorce she started sensing my emotional distance and started accusing me of cheating. She went so far as to accuse me of inscribing the initials of my supposed mistress on the fridge's magnetic calendar. She later reckoned it was our kids initials... She was that paranoid. The fault for my emotional distance could never be her erratic behaviour, of course. Although she did make several false promises. Unfortunately I fell for it so many times. They know what you want to hear. She went so far to apologise several times, but of what use is it if she wouldn't try to get better?
She was in a wide range of medications, would constantly pick fights with the psychiatrist and therapist. Even with the couple's counsellor she raged at. I also did all the chores. When confronted about it, she said she was ill and couldn't help much.
Mine was diagnosed for over 2 years. It didn't really help much, if it makes you feel better
Knowing the disease might be the first step to the cure. But if the patient refuses to get better, of what use is the most expensive treatment money can afford?