Starting the long road to divorce

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello all! I am new to the boards!
I have been married to my husband for 10 years and together for 20; we have a 6yo child together. It has always been difficult but I now came to suspect my husband has BPD+NPD. Since I realized and named it, the emotional (and some physical) abuse has been unbearable. Furthermore, now he started also emotionally abusing our child and I rescued the child multiple times from being physically abused. Before I came to this conclusion, I used a lot of psychological diversions like daydreaming, but the common theme has been that I just want to live in peace in my own space and have my child.
I am in counseling, depression treatment, and had initial consultations with a few family lawyers. I have a friend who knows it all and is able to provide a room if needed. I spoke with the DV nonprofit in the area. It will be a lengthy process to get to full separation and will be very difficult (if at all possible) to prove that he's bad for our child and I should get more time with my child. I am still in the house to see if I can collect evidence and also to line up housing, etc. Due to history of abuse I cannot let him know that I am making plans to leave. I have no idea what he plans. He has made threats during fights and zingers other times about wanting me to leave, but it may be more his worrying about being abandoned.
It will be nasty once I attempt or manage to leave. And I worry about that a lot. It's maybe not safe to worry about belongings, I was already told, when the time comes, to just leave with a backpack, but I also don't want to leave any personal items in the house. It will be impossible to remove everything right under his nose.
I just need sympathy. And maybe if you have any strategic advice. Thanks!

[redpoppy]

Hello all! I am new to the boards!
I have been married to my husband for 10 years and together for 20; we have a 6yo child together. It has always been difficult but I now came to suspect my husband has BPD+NPD. Since I realized and named it, the emotional (and some physical) abuse has been unbearable. Furthermore, now he started also emotionally abusing our child and I rescued the child multiple times from being physically abused. Before I came to this conclusion, I used a lot of psychological diversions like daydreaming, but the common theme has been that I just want to live in peace in my own space and have my child.
I am in counseling, depression treatment, and had initial consultations with a few family lawyers. I have a friend who knows it all and is able to provide a room if needed. I spoke with the DV nonprofit in the area. It will be a lengthy process to get to full separation and will be very difficult (if at all possible) to prove that he's bad for our child and I should get more time with my child. I am still in the house to see if I can collect evidence and also to line up housing, etc. Due to history of abuse I cannot let him know that I am making plans to leave. I have no idea what he plans. He has made threats during fights and zingers other times about wanting me to leave, but it may be more his worrying about being abandoned.
It will be nasty once I attempt or manage to leave. And I worry about that a lot. It's maybe not safe to worry about belongings, I was already told, when the time comes, to just leave with a backpack, but I also don't want to leave any personal items in the house. It will be impossible to remove everything right under his nose.
I just need sympathy. And maybe if you have any strategic advice. Thanks!

[kells76]

Hey redpoppy, glad you found us -- welcome to the group.

I am in counseling, depression treatment, and had initial consultations with a few family lawyers. I have a friend who knows it all and is able to provide a room if needed. I spoke with the DV nonprofit in the area.

What you're doing to prepare to leave makes sense. The more info you have about how things typically go down in your area, the better prepared you'll be to work your plan. Doesn't mean there won't be curveballs, just that you can know better what to focus on.

Getting specific logistical issues solved also frees up your energy and focus for the more intractable problems. So, it's good that you know your friend has a place for you and your child to crash -- now that energy can be diverted to other problems to solve.

I spoke with the DV nonprofit in the area. It will be a lengthy process to get to full separation and will be very difficult (if at all possible) to prove that he's bad for our child and I should get more time with my child.

redpoppy, when you say "full separation", do you mean divorce, or something else? Just wanting to understand your situation better.

pwBPD (people with BPD) who are also parents of minors tend to one extreme or another -- either deep enmeshment with and "possession" of the child, or ignoring/abandoning the child in order to engage in adult relationships (though, often, still with a LOT of verbiage about "being denied parenting time" or "having the child withheld from them" etc). Typically, though not always, moms with BPD "possess" the child and are enmeshed with the kids, to meet their deep need for "being chosen and never abandoned", and dads with BPD will "talk a good game" about wanting to be in the kid's life, but quickly move on to other relationships.

Do you have a sense for where your kid's dad would fall on that spectrum?

It could be that even if he is "awarded" a significant amount of parenting time, if he's more interested in pursuing adult relationships, he may "cancel" or "reschedule" a lot, not show up, etc, which would build a new status quo.

Due to history of abuse I cannot let him know that I am making plans to leave.

That is wise. It sounds like you know you are done with the relationship. If you'd been in a place of wanting to make it work, then withholding info might not be the way to go, but now that you recognize your own need to unwind the relationship, it is smart to keep your plans to yourself.

Is your access to this site private/hideable?

It's maybe not safe to worry about belongings, I was already told, when the time comes, to just leave with a backpack, but I also don't want to leave any personal items in the house. It will be impossible to remove everything right under his nose.

Yes, all at once would be difficult and perhaps lead to a dangerous blowup.

Does he work out of the house on a regular schedule?

Is it a rental or owned? In whose name is the house?

Can you take documents one at a time? For certain documents, can you get a "certified" or "official" copy that is "as good as" the original, then return the original to the house?

Get a safe place to store the documents -- your friend's house sounds ideal, if your friend is OK with it. Prioritize the most important ones first -- kiddo's birth certificate, your soc security card, etc, then work your way down.

Consider waiting until after your exit to switch to separate bank accounts and credit cards (if they're not separate already), as that could be seen as a signal of your intents.

Take important items one at a time, also.

Do you work outside the house? Is your workplace aware of the issues?

If you can't take stuff to your friend's house (if it'd look "suspicious" to drive there), see if you can stash stuff at work.

Giving managers/HR a brief heads up gives you one more area of support. If there is DV involved, I believe workplaces have a legal obligation to provide certain accommodations.

...

Is your 6YO in school? When it comes time to leave, can you give the school a heads up? Staff there has probably been through similar situations and then they won't be surprised if either your kiddo has some challenges in class, or your H shows up on campus.

...

I just need sympathy. And maybe if you have any strategic advice. Thanks!

I am truly sorry you guys are going through this. I know it can't be what you wanted for your life, your relationship, or your child.

I'd recommend looking at some earlier posts by member "livednlearned" who was in a VERY similar situation to you -- how to plan to leave a uNPD/uBPD husband, and take their only child with her.

If you go up to the menu header that lists options like "Help!", "Boards", "Search Threads", etc, click on the "Search Members" option. Then, it will open a page that has a header reading "VIEW ALL MEMBERS" (the page opens on this option) and "SEARCH FOR MEMBERS". DON'T use the Microsoft Bing search box to search for members. Click on the "SEARCH FOR MEMBERS"  option. A new box opens up below there, labeled "Search For:", where you can type livednlearned
Click on "search threads" and one option will pop up under "username". Click livednlearned and you'll get a "summary" page. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the "Show the lasts posts of this person" link under "Additional options".

There you go! There are 317 pages  of livednlearned's posts so if you have time you can go back to the start of her story. But whatever you read of hers will be incredibly wise.

Looking forward to hearing more from you;

kells76

[kells76]

Here's one older thread where there are a couple of replies from livednlearned about her experience:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=191400.30

[redpoppy]

Wow! Thank you so much for all the advice and things to think about.
I am accessing this site only at work. So it's safe, but I don't get to spend much time on it. I will write back in more detail later.

[kells76]

Welcome back! Glad you have a safe spot to write. Take as much time as you need to post, no rush.

[redpoppy]

I am so glad to have found y'all and for your help and advice. I couldn't lookup livednlearned's posts (maybe bc I'm a newbie?) but I read the specific thread and it's so helpful!

pwBPD (people with BPD) who are also parents of minors tend to one extreme or another -- either deep enmeshment with and "possession" of the child, or ignoring/abandoning the child in order to engage in adult relationships (though, often, still with a LOT of verbiage about "being denied parenting time" or "having the child withheld from them" etc). Typically, though not always, moms with BPD "possess" the child and are enmeshed with the kids, to meet their deep need for "being chosen and never abandoned", and dads with BPD will "talk a good game" about wanting to be in the kid's life, but quickly move on to other relationships.
Do you have a sense for where your kid's dad would fall on that spectrum?
It could be that even if he is "awarded" a significant amount of parenting time, if he's more interested in pursuing adult relationships, he may "cancel" or "reschedule" a lot, not show up, etc, which would build a new status quo.

I think he will be possessive, because he would also feel abandoned by the child if he had less access than me, or even less than 100%. Because of his narcissistic traits, he needs the child's love and admiration. When we are together, he expects me to do all the hard work of parenting and have all the quality time. But, none of this is provable legally. So, my guess is he will fight for more parenting time. Also to pay me less child support and use money to control the child (and me) instead. --But I hope you are right. I hope he does drop the ball a lot and enable me to keep the child more.

Is it a rental or owned? In whose name is the house?
Can you take documents one at a time? For certain documents, can you get a "certified" or "official" copy that is "as good as" the original, then return the original to the house?
Get a safe place to store the documents -- your friend's house sounds ideal, if your friend is OK with it. Prioritize the most important ones first -- kiddo's birth certificate, your soc security card, etc, then work your way down.
Consider waiting until after your exit to switch to separate bank accounts and credit cards (if they're not separate already), as that could be seen as a signal of your intents.
Take important items one at a time, also.
If you can't take stuff to your friend's house (if it'd look "suspicious" to drive there), see if you can stash stuff at work.

We co-own the house, but I would be in a one down position once I leave the house. He would fight me over little items, or claim that I "stole" something of his or ours etc. I would rather take what I like/need and be done.
I can store documents at the bank, and some items with my friend. I have much more items though that are of sentimental value and I realized it's important for me to bring them to my new house and new life because I want to reinvigorate the parts of me that I have lost or suppressed during the relationship. Maybe I will have to rent a storage space too.

Do you work outside the house? Is your workplace aware of the issues?
Giving managers/HR a brief heads up gives you one more area of support. If there is DV involved, I believe workplaces have a legal obligation to provide certain accommodations.

This is an excellent point. I did not tell my boss, in the interest of keeping things secret. If I feel comfortable enough at some point, I may tell them because I could see its benefits. They don't see my uBPDh much, but like him. It may be difficult to convince an uninformed person that uBPDh is a danger.

Is your 6YO in school? When it comes time to leave, can you give the school a heads up? Staff there has probably been through similar situations and then they won't be surprised if either your kiddo has some challenges in class, or your H shows up on campus.

This is my biggest fear. So long as court hasn't set parenting times, husband can pick up d6 from school anytime. It will be at 2-3 months after I file. Until then I have to negotiate. And it will be impossible. He will use the child to force me back home. But the child's safety is a major reason why I want to leave in the first place :-(

Thanks again!

[ForeverDad]

Just throwing this thought out there... Most people think leaving the relationship means leaving the residence.  Sometimes even leaving the kids behind until court sets a temp order weeks or months  later.

However, ponder whether it's possible for You to remain in possession of the home and it is the spouse who is leaving (moving out).  Ask your lawyer what you can do to have your divorce petition include that you get temporary possession of the home during the divorce?  This would be more likely if there had been an incident that made doing so more apparent.

Sure, the residence may need to be sold eventually but usually that doesn't happen until later in the divorce.  I had a two year divorce and our divorce final decree laid out the agreement details for me to buy out my ex's equity in the house.  Meanwhile I had lived in the house and paid its bills.

[redpoppy]

Good point, ForeverDad. That's something I should ask my lawyer. Maybe there are advantages to staying (I will have to temporarily move out to get the legal process started, to be safe while he's coming to terms with my leaving the relationship).

[PeteWitsend]

...
It will be nasty once I attempt or manage to leave. And I worry about that a lot. It's maybe not safe to worry about belongings, I was already told, when the time comes, to just leave with a backpack, but I also don't want to leave any personal items in the house. It will be impossible to remove everything right under his nose.
I just need sympathy. And maybe if you have any strategic advice. Thanks!

So I had issues with my BPDxw throwing my things out... particularly family pictures, heirlooms, gifts from family members she didn't like, etc.  She had a real irrational attitude toward these things.

I got a self-storage unit on the DL.  You have to be really careful about this, because a lot of places say they won't send you mail, but there are still auto-generated mailings and other things that get sent without any human checking them.  You may want to get a P.O. Box and list that as your address to be sure. 

I paid cash for the storage unit, and quietly moved things into it over time, to avoid attracting attention.  BPDxw never noticed.  This made moving out after I decided to end it and file for divorce A LOT easier: I already had a place to store things, and had the peace of mind that she couldn't trash everything before I could move out.

Another thing: I left a lot of personal papers and records behind that involved her, (joint tax returns, account statements, etc.) thinking she'd accuse me of hiding documents and lying if I took them all.  Well... she did that anyway, of course!  And when I needed copies of some of the tax returns later, for some professional registrations and licensing, she of course played coy for weeks, claiming she needed to look for them and didn't have time, and never turning them over. 

I SHOULD have just taken them, made copies, and given her the copies.  DO NOT leave anything in their hands; any leverage they have over you, expect them to use. 

[redpoppy]

That is so useful, PeteWitsend.
Heirlooms and gifts are very important to me, being that many of my close family members passed away, and that is all I have from them. Also, after having lost myself and identity in the relationship, all those items from my past matter even more. Thanks for all the advice about going about getting a storage unit.
I hadn't thought about the documents, though. Of course, I will need tax returns etc in the future. It will take a while to get to them and make copies while he's away, so I should get planning soon.

[zaqsert]

redpoppy, depending on your setup, equipment at home, and comfort level, is scanning some of these documents an option?

If you do, you'll want to make sure you don't leave a trace on a home computer that you may use for this. I happen to have a home printer/scanner, so what I'm thinking of trying is:

• I have a separate Gmail account that I had set up to sign up for BPDFamily. More recently I used it to reach out to lawyers to evaluate and pick one. I make a point of only accessing it from a browser in private or incognito mode.
• From that account, access Google Drive, and make a folder for what you want to scan.
• Scan documents to the computer or to a USB stick, depending on how your scanner works.
• Upload those documents to the folder in Google Drive.
• Delete the files from the computer or USB stick.
• Empty the trash or recycle bin on the computer.
• Be sure to put the paper documents back where they were.

Nowadays you can also use many smartphones to "scan" or take pictures of documents. But in my case, these photos go into a photo album that my uBPDw can access. So that's not a good option for me.

[PeteWitsend]

redpoppy, depending on your setup, equipment at home, and comfort level, is scanning some of these documents an option?

If you do, you'll want to make sure you don't leave a trace on a home computer that you may use for this. I happen to have a home printer/scanner, so what I'm thinking of trying is:

• I have a separate Gmail account that I had set up to sign up for BPDFamily. More recently I used it to reach out to lawyers to evaluate and pick one. I make a point of only accessing it from a browser in private or incognito mode.
• From that account, access Google Drive, and make a folder for what you want to scan.
• Scan documents to the computer or to a USB stick, depending on how your scanner works.
• Upload those documents to the folder in Google Drive.
• Delete the files from the computer or USB stick.
• Empty the trash or recycle bin on the computer.
• Be sure to put the paper documents back where they were.

Nowadays you can also use many smartphones to "scan" or take pictures of documents. But in my case, these photos go into a photo album that my uBPDw can access. So that's not a good option for me.

Yeah, shared or cloud storage is a minefield here.  And even if you think you have privacy/access settings locked down, a software update or other glitch can reset things to default settings, and get overshared.  I wouldn't trust any of this kind of stuff in a higher-stakes situation like this. 

And as I alluded to in my post, if you're dealing with a large corporation, what the sales person tells you in terms of privacy or keeping things paperless may not be accurate, and when your account gets created, it sets you up for all sort of auto-generated mailings and other cross-marketing promotions that blow your cover. 

I think the time and effort required to do things the "hard but more private way" when dealing with a pwBPD is worth it.  Their potential for extreme behavior if they sense you're planning an exit is too risky to trigger. 

So... if you're worried about scanned or copied documents from your phone getting uploaded to a shared drive they can see... take the time to copy them at FedEx/Kinkos or the library or something, and hide the copies at a separate location.

If you're worried about mailings coming to your house, get a PO Box. 

[ForeverDad]

Ponder too how to get your daughter started with counseling.  Schools have counselors that may be a limited resource for all students you can utilize now.  But why seek out professional counselors with dedicated sessions?  When the parents separate, both can make complaints about the other.  Who do the initial professionals believe?  Who does the court later believe?

If investigators can discuss with a counselor how the child has been impacted, that can make a difference, tip the scales away from claims and toward reality.  However, be aware that most counselors refuse to testify in court.  They know the real risks of being sued or their licensing board getting complaints.  However, counselors will discuss things with the child's Guardian ad Litem (GAL, child's lawyer) or a Custody Evaluator, professionals whose task is to talk to the court.

There is a gotcha at this early time.  What if father refuses to allow a counselor?  (Until a family court has set a temp order, the legal status is that both parents have "equal but undefined" rights.)  If so, then that is something to include with your first appearance in court, request that first temp order assign you, at the least, to medical and mental health decision making.  I recall what my lawyer told me when I first met him... "Courts love counseling!"