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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: '2nd boyfriend' wanting out...this bpd 'breakup' has been challenging  (Read 924 times)
GetBuzzed

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Relationship status: Single
Posts: 5


« on: April 04, 2022, 07:22:20 PM »

So... where do I, or anyone, start?

When we met, and started hanging out a lot. Things were seemingly perfect. She was perfect.
We have so many awesome, magic, perfect memories Smiling (click to insert in post) (that I just finally deleted..)

She had a bf though.

At first, I didn't care. I got fixed on her. She became my drug.

I wanted to be with her all the time.. she saw me 3 - 4x / week. She worked at my house. We collaborated on business projects together. She painted my walls, murals, etc... We were a virtual 'power couple' in our industry. The 'relationship' lasted about 3 months though which I developed limerence (which I finally worked my way out of)

At some point in this 3 months, I got pushy about their relationship and overstepped relationship boundaries, wanting/hoping that they'd break up, and she'd be with me. The bf found out. She was pissed. I said "ok,I guess personal relationship is over -  let's go to a business relationship only." She tried to disuade me. On one messaging app she was messaging me how she loved her bf, and her lover (because he was in the same room), and on another she was telling me she loved me and didn't want to lose me. I was so confused.

Side note: She talked about abandonment a lot, and she experienced a lot of trauma in childhood - and I was happy to be the knight-in-shining armor.

Then, after this, everything intensified. Our relationship; our friendship; our intimacy increased. 24 hours later. It was the strangest thing to me. She's not mad at me because I tried to derail her relationship? Ok... I guess not. She was my drug though so I didn't complain too much. I lied to her bf and said I would respect their relationship and she didn't seem that concerned.  

However, even though she complained so often how bad the bf was.. and even though she very often she said 'I love you' she never once said she actually wanted to be with me. So, I realized this was going to never work out - and I ended the 'romantic relationship.' The (mostly) emotional affair. She was resistant.

She kept pushing boundaries. I stuck to my guns, but it was hard. But I (mostly) stuck to them, and then...

...a month into the unofficial 'breakup', I post or state that I'll be travelling, and I ask if she wants to finish the mural while I'm traveling. She basically responds in a way where she's implying she has to come before I leave. I get on the phone with her and ask if she's trying to come over? And she admits reluctantly, Yes. I state (because she lives far away), that it means that she'd have to sleep over and we agreed that it wouldn't happen. She admits that she wanted to sleep over.  It was hard - because I was still so in love with her, but I said No.

Then, on a private social media story / snapchat, she posted a video with the title "I love my boyfriend." I was upset. I was triggered.

I got on the phone with her and said I didn't want to be her social media friend, and that I'm not going to be able to help her with some aspects of her business (volunteer, and bring some equipment basically) because I still needed time to heal.

She snapped, and it's been downhill, and weird ever since...

Up until about two days ago, I still had hope that we could be 'friends', but that is now gone. I don't want anything to do with her anymore... because, obsessive love now is replaced with .. fear.

Fear what smear campaign she can go on since I've never been so vulnerable with anyone in my life and she knows (and was) my everything.  For one, she has my laptop with my personal data on it that she refuses to give back (she's saying I have her broken usb drive.. that I'm ready to but won't give me the address).

Anyway - here's perhaps an important detail:

I'm 40 (Successful. Very Fit. Fun. Spontaneous. Look about a decade younger. No kids. Divorced. Nobody believes my age. I interact with millenial and gen z's very well especially being in the music industry).

She's 19.  Incredibly intelligent. Incredibly Ambitious. Smart - no, smarter than me. There is no one in my life that I would say that about.

Side note: My involvement in her life has drastically accelerated her professional and business wise (which she gave me such little credit during the time.. but I'm over it. I'm scared).

In short, I'm scared because I'm wondering if in her attempts to lure me back in that ALMOST have worked even until yesterday, could she / would she accuse me of potential allegations? For one, it was mostly an intimate affair - and I was very clear about my age, and very clear about consent throughout our time together.  She always re-assured me that she liked me, and it doesn't matter how many times you've gone around the sun.

However, she made a comment out of the blue the other day to the effect of, "just so you know, I have to give my parents a reason as to why you can't help me with this upcoming event, and it's probably going to ruin your relationship with them (which was good), and ruin your relationship with me as a result." I asked "what reason" and she said, "You're 40 and you have strong emotions for their 19 yo baby."

Since then, we've been fighting about the laptop (she's super busy to make it a priority to get her data..), and most recently she seems to want to want me to want her to invite her over to the house and drive hours away. I haven't responded. Not planning to respond to the message. I intend instead to give the item to a mutual friend to drop off, and hopefully get my laptop - but I'm giving up expecting/hoping to get it back.

Ok, two questions:

1.) What's the risk that she might make false allegations about our relationship?
2.) How do I 'safely' initiate no contact without triggering her to take an smear campaign?

It doesn't feel like block on everything is a good idea - she'll find a way to contact me - as she did the first time.

Right now I'm thinking basically moving out of state, and getting off social media...











« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 07:31:29 PM by GetBuzzed » Logged
Gemsforeyes
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Relationship status: Ended 2/2020
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2022, 09:47:54 PM »

Hi GetBuzzed-

Welcome to our community.  I’ve read through your post a few times and feel the need to ask you to take a different approach to your questions before really replying.  This may be a rather complicated situation- but a bit different than what you may think (in my mind).

First, as difficult as this may be, please try and take a breath.

Second, why do you believe your ex lover has BPD or traits of BPD?

Finally, and this is the difficult one... is it possible for you to read, I mean REALLY read and digest what you’ve written as if it were written by man who you did NOT personally KNOW?  Or even written by a good friend?

What would your thoughts be?
Or - What would you politely say to him?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2022, 09:53:17 AM »

youre in the best position to know whether there is a risk of escalation here.

do you know if she has a vindictive streak, or the extent of it? beyond that, its hard to say.

Excerpt
2.) How do I 'safely' initiate no contact without triggering her to take an smear campaign?

situations will vary. very generally speaking, its often best (for both parties) to do a slow burn - fade away - rather than hard and fast cut offs or dramatic actions; those things often fail for the person using them, and they can cause the other party to escalate.

thats not possible for everyone in every situation. sometimes building higher walls is necessary.

the idea is to make emotionally detaching the goal, and then choose the best tool and steps to achieve that. its important to be frank with ourselves as we do. if detaching isnt really the goal, its easy to pick a path that will fail.
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
GetBuzzed

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Single
Posts: 5


« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2022, 12:45:55 PM »

Hi GetBuzzed-

Welcome to our community.  I’ve read through your post a few times and feel the need to ask you to take a different approach to your questions before really replying.  This may be a rather complicated situation- but a bit different than what you may think (in my mind).

First, as difficult as this may be, please try and take a breath.

Second, why do you believe your ex lover has BPD or traits of BPD?

Finally, and this is the difficult one... is it possible for you to read, I mean REALLY read and digest what you’ve written as if it were written by man who you did NOT personally KNOW?  Or even written by a good friend?

What would your thoughts be?
Or - What would you politely say to him?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Hi Gemsforeyes - Great questions.

1.) I have a strong suspicion because during the time I've known her (and before I knew anything about bpd..), one of the first words I heard from here were storied of "abandonment, abandonment, abandonment."

-Her biological father never wanted to meet her.
-After her mother married, the husband who she called Dad for up to around of 6 divorced her Mom and never talked to them again.
-She was taken from her Mom's care by the divorced father after that because the Mom had marijuana on her and put into a different home for an extended period of time, before reuniting with her Mom later.
-Many, many 3 - 6 month relationships where the ex was, a "loser." She's with a 'loser' that can't even hold a job now..
-Her appearance / identity / interests has radically changed over the last few years. Every hair color imaginable. Moving across the world, and back. Starting new businesses. Even has a video of cutting her long hair to 'boy short' hair while drinking vodka on an emotional whim. Lots of whigs that she takes to different scenarios. Never have I seen an instagram change so much..
-Recently, she picked up a new non-biological sounding name.
-All of her friends are scared to piss her off, including, now, me. (95% of the time she's really sweet, and amazing, and smart)
-Really, really has a hard time seeing someone else's point of view on things.
-Emotional outbursts. Screams louder until YOU say I'm sorry, and you're wrong. Falls down crying on the floor if you don't see it her way.
-Anyone that backs out on a commitment  no matter how far in advance gets a nice reply in person, and the ire, or a passive social media post that she doesn't want to work with anyone that doesn't hold to their commitements.
-In our time together, we both idealized each other very, very much. I feel like I was in a state of limerence, and probably with a few npd traits myself.
-She said I was her 2nd favorite person, after her Mom. When I helped get her an amazing job and she was unable to work with her Mom anymore that doubled her pay, she was extremely emotional and torn about 'abandoning her Mom.' It was difficult leaving being an employee. She also never has given me proper credit despite 'promising' to do so, and it's been a sore spot for me. She's acting like she got it all on her own when I basically held her hand from begining to end - but I digress.
-Has broken so many personal boundaries, and never apologizes.
-Has vinalized, ridiculed, scorned a girlfriend for sleeping with her current boyfriend (before getting together), only to now have the same girlfriend.. be one of her best friends. It's weird AF. They also hang out together, too. I can see now, she's scared of her.
-We 'never fought' until I backed out and 'abandoned my support' as a volunteer to her event.
-On a business trip that she invited me with during the 'break up', that I resisted, she ended up making new males friends, getting all f*d up on drugs and alcohol, and based on her geo location sharing, was at a hotel multiple nights in a row that was not hers. In person, she admitted to partying to 4:30 AM in the morning - but "in the same hotel". I clearly knew and could tell  she lied - but it didn't matter, I was #2.. I didn't push her on it. Basically during the time she was away from both boyfriends.. she was extremely shady, while getting f*d up. Talking to another ex of hers, he claims she cheated on every one of her bf's - she's even admited to some of them. Was in the mental hospital for suicide attempts after she had cheated on a bf, then the bf found out, and dumped her, and she couldn't get him back.

There is more I could go into, but the more I started to look back and figure out 'wtf just happened' and 'who is this person really', and bpd stood out. It feels like text book. It feels like nothing else that I've experienced.

2.) I realize it's not socially ideal. I became increasingly obsessively in love and delusional about relationship possibilities, until I reversed course on it.

The friends that knew both of us really well understand what happened and the prickly situation. There are daddy issues, for sure, and I have mommy issues (my Mom was very cruel.. I don't care for her very much. She's not important to me with the fun fact: her non-biological name literally means 'mother', and has mother / nurturing qualities I never experienced as a child)

Ultimately, I never expected this type of bond to occur, or to be in this situation - I figured she'd not be interested - except for SHE exclaimed that she's crazy about me, sent nude pictures, came on to me at the house... all while in a relationship, and super young. In retrospect, yes, I should have pushed her away (and my friends will hold me accountable to not date anyone that's more than 10 years younger than me..) but, here we are.

The friends that don't basically think "you shouldn't have been having an affair with a 19 yo." And they're right. It's also one of the reasons why *I* am the that started to put an end to it because I realized my heart/brain was insane. I even said "this is to better respect you, your relationship, and me."  She didn't want to let go, which has been quite surprising. She still wanted to have "her cake and eat it too." She's become very combative with name-calling in text messages now... and all I want is my laptop back. When I ask, "are you just wanting to meet in person?" Rather than a typical person saying "No, I'm done", or admitting "Yes. Maybe", she writes "I'm indifferent. I just want this to end." It's confusing AF. Feels like she basically wants me to want to see her. Two months after what was an extremely intense 3 months emotional affair.


Ultimately, I could have kept that out, but I prefer to be honest and let the chips fall where it may. Perhaps (probalby) a bit paranoid from reading too many stories about trails of destruction, and seeing how fast I went from being looked up to, admired, told "I love You. I miss you" to passively manipulated and threatened.

*EDIT: There are things that she has done and says that make me question NPD.. but these other traits are much more pronounced, and I'm not a psychiatrist so I'm not qualified to diagnose one disorder, let alone two. I'm focusing on PBD.

1st example, "I can charm a snake. I know how to tell people exactly what they want to hear" (and she does..).

2nd example: She's basically copied all of my sucesful business methods and taken them as her own. The proejcts we worked, and are supposed to work on together are now.. all hers. I haven't even had the time to really process THIS part, that I was perhaps 100% played and used, b/c I'm just now getting over the romantic side, and trying to understand the behavior. Her business and professional career are on a rocket-ship through my taking her on as my wing-woman. The first meeting we had was a potential business meeting too.

















« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 12:56:52 PM by GetBuzzed » Logged
GetBuzzed

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Single
Posts: 5


« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2022, 01:01:58 PM »

youre in the best position to know whether there is a risk of escalation here.

do you know if she has a vindictive streak, or the extent of it? beyond that, its hard to say.

situations will vary. very generally speaking, its often best (for both parties) to do a slow burn - fade away - rather than hard and fast cut offs or dramatic actions; those things often fail for the person using them, and they can cause the other party to escalate.

thats not possible for everyone in every situation. sometimes building higher walls is necessary.

the idea is to make emotionally detaching the goal, and then choose the best tool and steps to achieve that. its important to be frank with ourselves as we do. if detaching isnt really the goal, its easy to pick a path that will fail.

I know if you piss her off, she'll talk about you as you're the worst person in the world...  And then you can find that person will be the best friend, or more like a subservient a few weeks later. I see one of her girlfriends like this.

Because consent was really important to me, and she assured me many times that she's not concerned about the age difference, I would 'never' think that she'd try to make any false allegations, however, the subtle manipulative threats makes me feel like if I trigger her, she just might. She knows it had been an anxiety of mine, and is now playing on it. Why?

As I mentioned in the other post, I have provided a tremendous amount of acceleration to her business and carreer.. and losing me now loses steam (she'll do fantastic without me.. but it's easier with me..)

My heart does say to do a 'slow burn' now because when I did block her 5 insta accounts, she messaged me from sixth one and called me an idiot. That's a first I've experienced.

Thanks for your insight! Smiling (click to insert in post)

Right now I'm oscillating between having a nice break-up message... again...or committing to ghosting her forever and cutting my losses, or stonewall-block on all excpet whatever I am missing.

However, her social media activities make me feel like she's trying to get my attention, and/or trigger me (for example: bragging about being with people in lambos running an event through a referral I provided).












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GetBuzzed

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Single
Posts: 5


« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2022, 01:14:47 PM »

Hi Gemsforeyes - Great questions.

1.) I have a strong suspicion because during the time I've known her (and before I knew anything about bpd..), one of the first words I heard from here were storied of "abandonment, abandonment, abandonment."

-Her biological father never wanted to meet her.
-After her mother married, the husband who she called Dad for up to around of 6 divorced her Mom and never talked to them again.
-She was taken from her Mom's care by the divorced father after that because the Mom had marijuana on her and put into a different home for an extended period of time, before reuniting with her Mom later.
-Many, many 3 - 6 month relationships where the ex was, a "loser." She's with a 'loser' that can't even hold a job now..He's a Momma's boy that is basically subservient to her. I exclaimed to her that she has "two boyfriends, and the best of both worlds" because she can get everything that she doesn't get from him, from me. She vinalizes him to me all the time - but won't break up. Comes across as very scared to be alone. Talks about how it paralyzes her after an emotional fight.
-Her appearance / identity / interests has radically changed over the last few years. Every hair color imaginable. Moving across the world, and back. Starting new businesses. Even has a video of cutting her long hair to 'boy short' hair while drinking vodka on an emotional whim. Lots of whigs that she takes to different scenarios. Never have I seen an instagram change so much..
-Recently, she picked up a new non-biological sounding name.
-All of her friends are scared to piss her off, including, now, me. (95% of the time she's really sweet, and amazing, and smart)
-Really, really has a hard time seeing someone else's point of view on things.
-Emotional outbursts. Screams louder until YOU say I'm sorry, and you're wrong. Falls down crying on the floor if you don't see it her way.
-Anyone that backs out on a commitment  no matter how far in advance gets a nice reply in person, and the ire, or a passive social media post that she doesn't want to work with anyone that doesn't hold to their commitements.
-In our time together, we both idealized each other very, very much. I feel like I was in a state of limerence, and probably with a few npd traits myself.
-She said I was her 2nd favorite person, after her Mom. When I helped get her an amazing job and she was unable to work with her Mom anymore that doubled her pay, she was extremely emotional and torn about 'abandoning her Mom.' It was difficult leaving being an employee. She also never has given me proper credit despite 'promising' to do so, and it's been a sore spot for me. She's acting like she got it all on her own when I basically held her hand from begining to end - but I digress.
-Has broken so many personal boundaries, and never apologizes.
-Has vinalized, ridiculed, scorned a girlfriend for sleeping with her current boyfriend (before getting together), only to now have the same girlfriend.. be one of her best friends. It's weird AF. They also hang out together, too. I can see now, she's scared of her.
-We 'never fought' until I backed out and 'abandoned my support' as a volunteer to her event.
-On a business trip that she invited me with during the 'break up', that I resisted, she ended up making new males friends, getting all f*d up on drugs and alcohol, and based on her geo location sharing, was at a hotel multiple nights in a row that was not hers. In person, she admitted to partying to 4:30 AM in the morning - but "in the same hotel". I clearly knew and could tell  she lied - but it didn't matter, I was #2.. I didn't push her on it. Basically during the time she was away from both boyfriends.. she was extremely shady, while getting f*d up. Talking to another ex of hers, he claims she cheated on every one of her bf's - she's even admited to some of them. Was in the mental hospital for suicide attempts after she had cheated on a bf, then the bf found out, and dumped her, and she couldn't get him back.

There is more I could go into, but the more I started to look back and figure out 'wtf just happened' and 'who is this person really', and bpd stood out. It feels like text book. It feels like nothing else that I've experienced.

2.) I realize it's not socially ideal. I became increasingly obsessively in love and delusional about relationship possibilities, until I reversed course on it.

The friends that knew both of us really well understand what happened and the prickly situation. There are daddy issues, for sure, and I have mommy issues (my Mom was very cruel.. I don't care for her very much. She's not important to me with the fun fact: her non-biological name literally means 'mother', and has mother / nurturing qualities I never experienced as a child)

Ultimately, I never expected this type of bond to occur, or to be in this situation - I figured she'd not be interested - except for SHE exclaimed that she's crazy about me, sent nude pictures, came on to me at the house... all while in a relationship, and super young. In retrospect, yes, I should have pushed her away (and my friends will hold me accountable to not date anyone that's more than 10 years younger than me..) but, here we are.

The friends that don't basically think "you shouldn't have been having an affair with a 19 yo." And they're right. It's also one of the reasons why *I* am the that started to put an end to it because I realized my heart/brain was insane. I even said "this is to better respect you, your relationship, and me."  She didn't want to let go, which has been quite surprising. She still wanted to have "her cake and eat it too." She's become very combative with name-calling in text messages now... and all I want is my laptop back. When I ask, "are you just wanting to meet in person?" Rather than a typical person saying "No, I'm done", or admitting "Yes. Maybe", she writes "I'm indifferent. I just want this to end." It's confusing AF. Feels like she basically wants me to want to see her. Two months after what was an extremely intense 3 months emotional affair.


Ultimately, I could have kept that out, but I prefer to be honest and let the chips fall where it may. Perhaps (probalby) a bit paranoid from reading too many stories about trails of destruction, and seeing how fast I went from being looked up to, admired, told "I love You. I miss you" to passively manipulated and threatened.

*EDIT: There are things that she has done and says that make me question NPD.. but these other traits are much more pronounced, and I'm not a psychiatrist so I'm not qualified to diagnose one disorder, let alone two. I'm focusing on PBD.

1st example, "I can charm a snake. I know how to tell people exactly what they want to hear" (and she does..).

2nd example: She's basically copied all of my sucesful business methods and taken them as her own. The proejcts we worked, and are supposed to work on together are now.. all hers. I haven't even had the time to really process THIS part, that I was perhaps 100% played and used, b/c I'm just now getting over the romantic side, and trying to understand the behavior. Her business and professional career are on a rocket-ship through my taking her on as my wing-woman. The first meeting we had was a potential business meeting too.


















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Gemsforeyes
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Relationship status: Ended 2/2020
Posts: 1156


« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2022, 01:59:15 PM »

Hey GetBuzzed-

Yep, I believe you’ve made your case as far as outlining enough BPD traits here.  And in many instances you get that winning combination (ouch!) where a person has both intense BPD and NPD traits.  Looks like you may have hit the jackpot, my friend.  Sorry.

DARN... I have an “emergency”.  Need to sign off and come back. 

Sorry,
Gems
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GetBuzzed

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Relationship status: Single
Posts: 5


« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2022, 05:57:42 PM »

Update.. I recently heard that her and the bf are getting a van, and doing the van life (another identity crisis..?) so maybe she's not out to be vindicative and slow ghost burn will be ok. Have to rescind to not getting my property back .. but I feel surprisingly ok about it and able to move on a little bit more.

Mostly helpful to just get it out.
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SinisterComplex
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken Up
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2022, 06:26:34 PM »

Without an official diagnosis I will just stick with a person who has mental health issues. Because in truth you said she is young. There are a lot of issues to unpack with her background and she may or may not have BPD. However, that part and that point is irrelevant because we need to get you focused on you and you alone.

What did you learn from this relationship? What did you learn about yourself? What changes do you think you need to make?

As to how you handle your personal affairs...well you don't have to do a breakup message and you do not have to necessarily ghost her either. How about you just focus on you and let the rest play out the way it will. Go about your business, focusing on healing and moving on.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-
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