Idealization? Ever experienced "Mini-Idealization?"

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I've been studying clues from a past serious relationship many years ago when I was a college student to determine if I really was in the Cluster B - Borderline Zone.  I've read on here how Idealization is a hallmark experience in BPD romantic relationships.  Sometimes it's referred to as Love Bombing, although I never experienced anything like that.  My ex-gf was far too cautious and afraid to overwhelm me with praise - that would require going out on a limb and taking a chance, which was almost impossible for her.

If Idealization is, indeed, some sort of hero-worship where you are constantly put on a pedestal, then that feels foreign to me, unless she was doing it internally and I was unable to notice it.  However, I absolutely experienced situations that I would call "Mini-Idealizations."  Is that really the same thing?  Has anyone else been through something like this?  I am curious to know.

It happened several times over our 1 year relationship, but here are two that jump out.  The first, when I negotiated the purchase of a sports car for her (the same type I drove) after going toe-to-toe with the owner and his friend for nearly an hour.  We walked out paying almost exactly what I predicted.  As we left the house, I'll never forget the look on her face.  She was looking at me like I was some kind of rock star.  She said "I could have never done that."  I told her she certainly could have, but I was an expert on these cars, so, of course, it was in my wheelhouse.  For the next 30 minutes she was almost silent as we drove home.  It felt like I had cast a spell on her or something.  However, instead of feeling high on her adoration, I distinctly remember feeling very unsettled.  I thought to myself, "I just cast a spell on her.  Someday, some other guy is going to do the same thing and she's going to leave me."  In the end, that's EXACTLY what happened.

In the second instance, I took her to a fancy hotel after a prom-like end-of-year dance party.  Earlier that year, we had walked by the hotel and even went in the lobby.  She was so impressed, especially compared to the cheesy motels we'd stayed in up to that point.  I told her "maybe we'll go here some night."  When we left the dance, I drove downtown to the hotel.  As we entered the parking lot, she realized that's where we were going to spend the night.  Again, the same rock-star-like look of adoration.  That entire night, it felt like we were on our honeymoon after getting married.  I'll never forget that trance-like state she was in, although it was gone when we woke up the next morning.

Now, is that what everyone means by Idealization?  For me, they were small episodes that only lasted an hour or two, not relationship-long efforts to put me on a pedestal.  However, I've never experienced anything like that with anyone before or since.  At the time, my spidey-sense went off big-time.  While I certainly appreciated the adoration, I did not revel in my ability to get her in this mood.  Instead, it only made me concerned since my gut instinct was telling me that this was not normal and was unsustainable.

Any thoughts on this?

[Matrix96]

I've been studying clues from a past serious relationship many years ago when I was a college student to determine if I really was in the Cluster B - Borderline Zone.  I've read on here how Idealization is a hallmark experience in BPD romantic relationships.  Sometimes it's referred to as Love Bombing, although I never experienced anything like that.  My ex-gf was far too cautious and afraid to overwhelm me with praise - that would require going out on a limb and taking a chance, which was almost impossible for her.

If Idealization is, indeed, some sort of hero-worship where you are constantly put on a pedestal, then that feels foreign to me, unless she was doing it internally and I was unable to notice it.  However, I absolutely experienced situations that I would call "Mini-Idealizations."  Is that really the same thing?  Has anyone else been through something like this?  I am curious to know.

It happened several times over our 1 year relationship, but here are two that jump out.  The first, when I negotiated the purchase of a sports car for her (the same type I drove) after going toe-to-toe with the owner and his friend for nearly an hour.  We walked out paying almost exactly what I predicted.  As we left the house, I'll never forget the look on her face.  She was looking at me like I was some kind of rock star.  She said "I could have never done that."  I told her she certainly could have, but I was an expert on these cars, so, of course, it was in my wheelhouse.  For the next 30 minutes she was almost silent as we drove home.  It felt like I had cast a spell on her or something.  However, instead of feeling high on her adoration, I distinctly remember feeling very unsettled.  I thought to myself, "I just cast a spell on her.  Someday, some other guy is going to do the same thing and she's going to leave me."  In the end, that's EXACTLY what happened.

In the second instance, I took her to a fancy hotel after a prom-like end-of-year dance party.  Earlier that year, we had walked by the hotel and even went in the lobby.  She was so impressed, especially compared to the cheesy motels we'd stayed in up to that point.  I told her "maybe we'll go here some night."  When we left the dance, I drove downtown to the hotel.  As we entered the parking lot, she realized that's where we were going to spend the night.  Again, the same rock-star-like look of adoration.  That entire night, it felt like we were on our honeymoon after getting married.  I'll never forget that trance-like state she was in, although it was gone when we woke up the next morning.

Now, is that what everyone means by Idealization?  For me, they were small episodes that only lasted an hour or two, not relationship-long efforts to put me on a pedestal.  However, I've never experienced anything like that with anyone before or since.  At the time, my spidey-sense went off big-time.  While I certainly appreciated the adoration, I did not revel in my ability to get her in this mood.  Instead, it only made me concerned since my gut instinct was telling me that this was not normal and was unsustainable.

Any thoughts on this?

[once removed]

idealization is something that we all do. it is a normal part of romantic relationships, to lesser or greater degrees.

people with bpd traits just do it in greater extremes. they do most things in extremes.

people with bpd traits over emote and wear their hearts on their sleeves. they also generally see people and situations in black and white.

therefore, generally speaking, a bpd loved one will see you as either the best person in the world, or the worst.

does it mean that if you didnt experience this that your ex doesnt have bpd traits? no. does it mean that if you did experience this with someone that they have bpd traits? no.

some people with bpd traits, like anyone else, are just unpleasant people, who dont do vulnerability, and will mostly put down the people around them, for example.

[Red5]

Now, is that what everyone means by Idealization?  For me, they were small episodes that only lasted an hour or two, not relationship-long efforts to put me on a pedestal.  However, I've never experienced anything like that with anyone before or since.  At the time, my spidey-sense went off big-time.  While I certainly appreciated the adoration, I did not revel in my ability to get her in this mood.  Instead, it only made me concerned since *my gut instinct was telling me* that this was not normal and was unsustainable.

Hello Matrix9,

It has been my education in life (via hard knox); to always always always!, ... trust this innate sense, the 'gut instinct' ... it is correct most, if not all; of the time.

*Red

[Matrix96]

So, the reason why I told my story of "mini-idealization" is that I'm trying to understand if (1) this type of short-term hero-worship is commonly experienced by partners of pwBPD and (2) if this mini-idealization really represents the tip of the iceberg.  Meaning, was she possibly idealizing me the entire time and I just didn't know it because there was no obvious love-bombing at all.

I'm beginning to suspect that what destroyed the relationship was when I believe I may have experienced a splitting episode with her (that's a topic for another thread I'll probably post).  From what I've read, a splitting episode represents the moment when you get tossed off the pedestal you've been placed on through idealization.  Obviously, everyone idealizes and everyone even splits in a way (gets upset, realizes something new about their partner when they've been let down, etc.) because these are common human emotions, they just don't do it the extreme way a pwBPD does.  Is "idealization" something that can happen under the surface, hidden from the partner being idealized, yet sneaking out and expressing itself in occasional moments of short-term idealization episodes, hence my term "mini-idealization."

Yes, I agree about gut feelings.  I've learned that my gut feelings are unbelievably accurate, yet it's so hard to believe them when you're deep in the confusion caused by a partner who struggles to accurately express her feelings.  It's funny, but when I read other people's accounts, it's so obvious what the issue is and how to deal with it. When it comes to taking my own advice, I just spin my wheels, ruminate and grapple with the idea that either something wasn't right or maybe it's just all in my head.

In my case, she had no diagnosis of any kind.  For other people on this site who know for certain that their partner has BPD, it at least provides a concrete place to start.  I'm not saying it's easy, but at least you're starting at a point where you know a real personality disorder is in the room.  Even with my gut feelings, I still have trouble grasping that I was likely dealing with some sort of Cluster B whatever (which I had never even heard of until last year).  The contrarian voice inside my head keeps telling me that maybe you were discarded and erased because she really found someone better and I'm trying to blame BPD for what may have been a simple case of classic female hypergamy and immaturity.

Then again, someone stalked me on the telephone for 8 years with hang-up and silent calls - that's probably another thread as well.

[once removed]

So, the reason why I told my story of "mini-idealization" is that I'm trying to understand if (1) this type of short-term hero-worship is commonly experienced by partners of pwBPD and (2) if this mini-idealization really represents the tip of the iceberg.  Meaning, was she possibly idealizing me the entire time and I just didn't know it because there was no obvious love-bombing at all.

i think you may be pathologizing this, and thus, a clear answer to your question may evade you.

idealization is just seeing a partner through rose colored glasses. we all do it - to lesser or greater degrees - it isnt a bpd thing, except that people with bpd do it in greater extremes because they tend to view their world, and their loved ones, in black and white terms.

"love bombing" is just the expression of that feeling, really.

some people are just less expressive about it, or dont feel it as intensely. personally, when im in the honeymoon phase of a relationship, i tend to express it, and come on pretty strong. some of my past partners have done the same, some have not.

Is "idealization" something that can happen under the surface, hidden from the partner being idealized, yet sneaking out and expressing itself in occasional moments of short-term idealization episodes, hence my term "mini-idealization."

certainly, i (anyone) can idealize someone without expressing it, necessarily.

it seems to me that you are examining these moments, and probing them for clues to a bigger picture. eg "why no love bombing", "did she secretly idealize me but hide it except for these moments", etc, do i have that right?

based on what you describe in your post, it sounds to me like your partner was particularly enamored with you and attracted to you in those moments. i would put that within the realm of "very normal". my sense (correct me if im wrong) is that youre probing them because they seemed out of character for her, or like something she did not do regularly. id say thats pretty normal as well. perhaps she wasnt/isnt a particularly expressive person in that regard, until/unless she is.

none of that is to say she is, or isnt, bpd.

When it comes to taking my own advice, I just spin my wheels, ruminate and grapple with the idea that either something wasn't right or maybe it's just all in my head.
...
The contrarian voice inside my head keeps telling me that maybe you were discarded and erased because she really found someone better and I'm trying to blame BPD for what may have been a simple case of classic female hypergamy and immaturity.

i get it, completely. as someone on the ocd spectrum, im very prone to obsessive thinking, and ruminating was all that i did for months and months after my breakup. it has its uses, and there really are answers when it comes to examining and healing from these relationships. in my experience, most of the clear answers came further down the road, when i was more detached from the pain.

i think my point here is that you may be reading into this example in a way that is confusing you.

as for whether you were with someone with bpd, or just someone who was immature, my advice would be, as you explore, and as you heal, dont silence that voice (embrace the tough questions, with balanced feedback and support). in my own experience, bpd was a very significant part of my relationship, and of my experience, but it wasnt really the reason for my relationship breaking down. it gave me a number of answers and insights. it was a gateway for taking me further into psychology and human nature. it helped me to better see things through my exs eyes, once i was ready to do so, which helped me detach.

but it can also be a crutch (it certainly was for me) to help cope with the wringer weve gone through.

[Matrix96]

No, there was nothing "very normal" about these episodes.  I'm mentioning them precisely because I've never experienced anything like that with anyone.  Ever.  I can easily distinguish the difference between someone who is excited and impressed by something vs. someone who seems to almost enter a trance-like state of adoration.  I do not believe that is normal.  My spidey-sense told me it didn't feel right at all.  I'm posting this here because I had never heard of BPD (or any PD at the time) and I am looking for clues to determine if I was really dealing with a Cluster B personality.

I'd like to know if BPD was the explanation because the end of the relationship and brutal discard came out of nowhere.  It wasn't like we were having all sorts of problems.  She had the problem which culminated in a 4-hour freakout session when she claimed I was "looking at that girl" at a party we held (I confronted a super hot female partygoer stealing bottles of booze from our freezer just 15 seconds after she walked into our party uninvited).  That was the most emotionally exhausting 4 hours of my life where we went an odyssey of spiraling shame that took everything I had to get her back to emotional regulation (obviously, I was the regulator).

If it was BPD, then it becomes much easier for me to put an end to the ruminations - BPD is unhealthy and I have absolutely no desire to be in that kind of relationship, regardless of how much I loved her because it's a no-win situation.  The cautionary tales I read on this site are enough to scare most of the ruminations right out of me.  And, all those 8 years (on and off) of hang-up and silent calls suddenly start to make sense even if the remnants of my shattered self-esteem from back then do not want me to believe it.

So, back to the beginning.  Was this "mini-idealization" a clue that I was in the Cluster B zone?  Hasn't anyone else experienced that?  It sure didn't feel normal when it happened.

[NotAHero]

No, there was nothing "very normal" about these episodes.  I'm mentioning them precisely because I've never experienced anything like that with anyone.  Ever.  I can easily distinguish the difference between someone who is excited and impressed by something vs. someone who seems to almost enter a trance-like state of adoration.  I do not believe that is normal.  My spidey-sense told me it didn't feel right at all.  I'm posting this here because I had never heard of BPD (or any PD at the time) and I am looking for clues to determine if I was really dealing with a Cluster B personality.

I'd like to know if BPD was the explanation because the end of the relationship and brutal discard came out of nowhere.  It wasn't like we were having all sorts of problems.  She had the problem which culminated in a 4-hour freakout session when she claimed I was "looking at that girl" at a party we held (I confronted a super hot female partygoer stealing bottles of booze from our freezer just 15 seconds after she walked into our party uninvited).  That was the most emotionally exhausting 4 hours of my life where we went an odyssey of spiraling shame that took everything I had to get her back to emotional regulation (obviously, I was the regulator).

If it was BPD, then it becomes much easier for me to put an end to the ruminations - BPD is unhealthy and I have absolutely no desire to be in that kind of relationship, regardless of how much I loved her because it's a no-win situation.  The cautionary tales I read on this site are enough to scare most of the ruminations right out of me.  And, all those 8 years (on and off) of hang-up and silent calls suddenly start to make sense even if the remnants of my shattered self-esteem from back then do not want me to believe it.

So, back to the beginning.  Was this "mini-idealization" a clue that I was in the Cluster B zone?  Hasn't anyone else experienced that?  It sure didn't feel normal when it happened.

  I wouldn’t look for idealization per say.

 Instead, where you viewed in extreme positive light one day then were discarded and painted black the next day for no reason?

 The contrast is more of an indicator for BPD than the details of the idealization. As others said general positive image is something we all do when we are romantically involved.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Matrix96...

How old was she, and how old were you?

I could be off track but from your other posts, I seem to have gathered that you were both in university?

What you are talking here does not sound to me like Cluster B behaviors... To be brutally honest : it's like you are describing me, at twenty years old, when I was dating my first love, a sweet guy who could have been a wonderful husband...would I have not been deeply traumatized by my own BPD mother, and unaware of it.

I remember getting into some kind of trans with him, because he was just so very sweet, and I had NEVER experienced it in my life. And I remember looking at him, and suddenly noticing he was uncomfortable, which would break the moment. Otherwise, I was mostly withdrawn and in my head, neutral and highly critical of him. He wanted me to be happy and did his best, but it was never in his power to heal me.

I wasn't BPD and I am not cluster B material (my T confirmd, ).. I was, however, a deeply abandoned child, with no real parents, no validation, who was shown a very low degree of love, who was sexually assaulted, emotionnally abused and physically hurt by her own mother. I was a deeply traumatized child trapped in a young woman body with no capacity for self regulation. I was completely lost in the world. Not BPD though ! Because I had self awareness : I could see I made him uncomfortable, I could see I was hurting him, I just didn't know how to stop myself...

Interestingly enough, I contacted him recently to tell him how sorry I am for how I treated him... And he told me he had forgiven me a long time ago,  and was touched by my reaching out. And that was the end of it...

He paved part of my way toward healing with his kindness. I made him suffer, left him for one of his friends on a second notice, treated him poorly... Truly I probably traumatized the guy ! .. But it wasn't pathological, it was pure hurt exhibited outward, as much as inward (lots of suicide idealisation back then.. I wanted to be saved, he wanted to be a hero, and I made him a martyr). He is now well though ! I was his first love too, and I am glad he moved forward to find himself a healthy girl to build his life with.

Not everyone has a PD, some people are just deeply traumatized human being on their way to their peace. It takes time. Sometimes we are just the unlucky souls that cross their paths... He says I helped him in his own relationship with his mother, somehow set him free and helped me put more boundaries in place... I wasn't all bad for him it seems...

Maybe it would help you to focus on what she brought you, instead of if she was in the cluster B or not? Because truly : what does it change if she was or not? Will it change your experience? What you learned from it? What she learned from you?