Everyone tells me I should be done, but I want to go back….

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Everyone in my life is telling me that my ex (with bipolar disorder & symptoms of BPD) is showing some serious red flags. Ending things abruptly & not giving the me the “why” behind it is the main red flag they’re seeing. They think it’s better I knew now & not in 10 years.  Plus, now that I’m moved out & we are done, now her text messages are kind again (before they were 1 word answers). I’m so confused.

My family & friends see this hard thing I’m going through, but they don’t know what me & my ex had! I try to explain how GOOD it was for so long. There was no back and forth, no fights that ended poorly. It was SO GOOD. I am trying to take their advice but my heart just wants to be back with her. I know I love her so deeply. I feel SO SAD. I’ve never experienced this kind of grief from a breakup.

What do other people suggest?

[lovingmyself1st]

Everyone in my life is telling me that my ex (with bipolar disorder & symptoms of BPD) is showing some serious red flags. Ending things abruptly & not giving the me the “why” behind it is the main red flag they’re seeing. They think it’s better I knew now & not in 10 years.  Plus, now that I’m moved out & we are done, now her text messages are kind again (before they were 1 word answers). I’m so confused.

My family & friends see this hard thing I’m going through, but they don’t know what me & my ex had! I try to explain how GOOD it was for so long. There was no back and forth, no fights that ended poorly. It was SO GOOD. I am trying to take their advice but my heart just wants to be back with her. I know I love her so deeply. I feel SO SAD. I’ve never experienced this kind of grief from a breakup.

What do other people suggest?

[lovingmyself1st]

I feel like I can’t trust myself to make the right decision. I know I should not hold onto any hope of us getting back together. But I want it so badly!

I’m struggling. Big time.

[babyducks]

It's perfectly fine to go back.    many of us did.    I did.   I went back against the advice of family/friends.   I went back knowing the serious serious mental health issues.    I went back after an outbreak of violence that left me with a broken hand that required surgery to repair.

this is what I understand now about that.

people here told me that the early idealization was not going to re-occur.  that the early phase of things be perfect and special and like a honeymoon phase on steroids was over.    that the patterns of dysregulation would occur more rapidly, and it would be harder to recover from as we both wore down under the stress of it.

I thought I understood what they meant.   but truthfully, I didn't until I experienced it for myself.    the early relationship was just electrifying infatuation and delicious love bombing.   from both sides.   me too.   it was very much like an addiction.     some one here said to me that the person I fell so in love with was essentially myself, as she mirrored me so intensely.   it was intoxicating.    I suppose that subconsciously I felt that giving up on the relationship meant giving up on me.

and the vicious arguments we had generated a lot of damage.    it was going to be hard to repair that damage because there was little to no mutuality, collaboration or cooperation in the relationship.

it's important to be honest and as deliberate as you can be about what is pulling you to want this so badly.    I think all of us here have experienced that so good phase.    and wanted it back.    for me, what I found out was that the very good phase wasn't real.   it was based on a serious disorder.   and could not be sustained.

'ducks

[lovingmyself1st]

Thanks for the reply, ducks.

I’m trying to think about right now, in this moment, what I miss.
- the safety we created
- the open communication
- she knew me better than anyone in this world
- i knew her deepest heart also
- we had so much fun
- she challenged me to be better
- I love her family deeply also
- we made a really good team

It wasn’t until she was under extreme stress from some new medical things that the switch flipped. It went from her telling me they she loves me, is ready to join bank accounts, has never felt so cared for, never felt so safe, she loves the way her friends & family love me….To just a few days later saying she can’t see a future with me. It’s so painful & confusing. How does love just disappear like that?

Her friends are reaching out because they don’t understand. Her family is reaching out because they don’t understand…

I have never felt so much grief.

[babyducks]

hello again lm1,

that's quite the list of things to miss.    I can see that that's very important to you.    I know you are grieving.   

I have a couple of thought that may be worth considering if you are up for it.   

This is one of my favorite clips from this website:

A person with BPD is emotionally underdeveloped and does not have "adult" emotional skills - especially in times of stress.  If you are in this type of relationship, it is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else.

The full article is here:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

It raises many good points.    I notice that you are posting both on the detaching board and the bettering/reversing boards.   I want to mention that the culture and atmosphere on those boards are vastly different, you are going to receive different responses depending on the climate of the board.    I noticed you had a nice exchange with kells76 on bettering.     if you had to say, would you say that you are detaching, or working to reverse a breakup?   or conflicted or undecided about what to do?  no pressure.   it's fine to be any of those things,  I am suggesting you might get more helpful responses if there was slightly more clarity about what you want.

How does love just disappear like that?

It is painful and confusing.    It's splitting.     One has to be very emotionally strong to be able to handle a splitting episode. In Margalis Fjelstad's book: Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, she talks about the relationship instability that comes with this type of mental illness.     She says pwBPD "instantly fall in love or instantly end a relationship with no logical explanation".   We tend to look for the logical explanation and the reason.   We also tend to think it will never happen again.    My Ex ended our relationship every 6 months until finally I didn't go back.

I'd highly recommend the book.    It was the single best thing I ever read about BPD.

'ducks

[lovingmyself1st]

Hi, thanks for the recommendation. I will look into it for sure.

I don’t know what I want right now. Part of me wants to keep the door open to reconciling & trying again. Part of me wants to detach & move on. I am torn. I love her so dearly. And I have so much empathy for what she’s going through.

[drumdog4M]

Hi. I would second the recommendation for the book. I found it very helpful and might give you information and a framework to evaluate your feelings about trying to make the relationship work versus letting it go.

I also wanted to validate your feeling conflicted about what to do. So many (probably all) of us went through that conflict, or still struggle with them. I certainly do. My relationship is over and I'm trying to accept that, but I am stuck sometimes in wishing there was something I could do to revive and improve the relationship. Often it's my rational mind and emotional mind being in conflict. It's also part of the grieving process (denial / bargaining phases).

Hang in there, and keep posting. We are here to support you and understand what you're going through.

[Mutt]

Hey lovingmyself1st,

I like your username by the way  

I’m trying to think about right now, in this moment, what I miss.
- the safety we created
- the open communication
- she knew me better than anyone in this world
- i knew her deepest heart also
- we had so much fun
- she challenged me to be better
- I love her family deeply also
- we made a really good team

Another poster mentioned integrating the bad behaviors of a pwBPD with the good ones to make a more complete picture of the person.

Can you think of a list things that you dont miss about your pwBPD? You'll find a balance somewhere in the middle of the reasons of missing them and the reasons that you don't miss them.

Is there a trigger that you can think of that has you reminiscing about the good times?

[lovingmyself1st]

Ok, trying to scrounge up thoughts about the bad things:
- hard to have a conversation about difficult things sometimes, she would sometimes dissociate in the middle of talking. Not often.
- she was occasionally nit-picky about small things
- sometimes she was in a bad mood and would be more quiet & moody - but never mean or angry outwardly

There really wasn’t anything that bad, honestly. The things I listed above could happen in lots of relationships. The worst thing she did was end things without being able to explain the why, and tell me she just needs to figure some things out. She believes she was really mean to me, and she didn’t like that about herself. She said she needs to figure out what’s going on- maybe it’s us, maybe not. She just has a feeling…

I don’t know if there’s one trigger right now. Lots of them probably.
- still trying to unpack & finding her things
- getting text messages from her randomly
- her family & friends are asking me what happened & telling me they’re worried about her.
- the smell of her house on an off my clothes

[Mutt]

The worst thing she did was end things without being able to explain the why, and tell me she just needs to figure some things out.

Let me offer you a perspective that is from a non's perspective and not from a perspective from someone with a personality disorder.

She didn't explain it because she doesn't want to get into it. In the worst case scenario,  an ex doesn't get into it because it can be dangerous, it's awkward, they don't want to hurt a person's feelings, they're avoidant etc. There could be a multitude of reasons that are not pathological.

Can you think reasons why she wanted to break up without asking her?

If you can figure out why then work on those things to improve yourself as an individual.

I don’t know if there’s one trigger right now. Lots of them probably.
- still trying to unpack & finding her things
- getting text messages from her randomly
- her family & friends are asking me what happened & telling me they’re worried about her.
- the smell of her house on an off my clothes

You can reduce the triggers, it doesn't mean that once that you do that that they're going to be completely gone, it will take time but there's things that can do like pack her stuff and reducing contact with her and her family and friends.

That being said, you're not sure what you want right which is ok, once that you figure what you want and if you decide that you're fine with the relationship then put her stuff away and respectfully ask her family and friends to not contact you because you're trying to get over the grief of the relationship and mute her texts and messages for a period of time.

[lovingmyself1st]

Thank you.
I think there is an element of past trauma playing into this, maybe. She was sick 5-6 years ago when she was engaged (to a woman who is now her ex wife). The ex wife became a caretaker and was very vocal about how hard it was for her, treated my ex like a child, and was resentful at being the sole income earner for a few months. My ex attributes her getting sick as the beginning of the end of their marriage.

My ex has told me that no one has ever known her like I have, cared for her like I have, and been so in tune with her emotions like I have. She told her friends/family how happy she was often.

I wonder if in that doctor appt the thought of being sick again and having to rely on a partner was terrifying. And her immediate gut reaction was to protect herself - that it was maybe too much to handle. And so she ended things.

I don’t know. I’m heartbroken.

[Mutt]

It could be a pattern. You're different people, you're not her ex wife and that doesn't mean that something that played out one way with someone else in the past means that it is going to okay out the exact same way with someone else now in the present. It's on her to differentiate that and as you say sometimes people develop patterns that are self protective but at the same time they develop a blind spot with how their own behaviors affect others. Or perhaps she was already impaired with empathy.

So that's her compartment and from you are sharing here is that is very difficult on you. I'm sorry that you're going through this. Something that you may have already thought of is where do you see yourself with ´in her pattern? Does she have enough self awareness or awareness to see how her actions and choices affect others?

Are these a deal breaker for you? My ex wife that displays BPD traits is the same person that she was 10 years ago when we split up. I'm not perfect either. I've played out some behaviors that I have from my past but I took the time to work on myself.

Everyone's situation is different than someone else's and everyone's ex is a different person with their issues. Now putting the focus back on your situation, you know her best than anyone here. Would she get help for herself to work on her patterns?

[lovingmyself1st]

She would absolutely work on her patterns. She’s in therapy, and she’s told me about her manic states - and about her depressed states. She talks with her therapist 2x weekly. And is taking medication.
I think, If this is related to bipolar disorder and/or bpd, then she’s not yet aware of the impulsivity. Everyone around her is, and has told her this seems impulsive & out of character, but that’s making her feel really defensive & alone, from what I gather.

Thanks for all of your input, this is really helping.

[Mutt]

It was mentioned  that you have posted on different boards. The advice that is given if a person is not in therapy and not trying to help themselves is going to be an uphill battle. If someone is trying to help themselves then the prognosis is better. There's going to be moments when people will stumble and fall but if they continue to put an effort then that means something. They are trying to change course and go a different reaction with their logged.

If I put that to the side for a second a mental disorder or several mental disorders and therapy and look at values and if someone did something that didn't synchronize with your values and they are going to therapy and getting help for themselves then it depends on what they did that goes against your values. That's something to think about as well.

[lovingmyself1st]

Absolutely. That makes sense.

I think the hardest thing right now is feeling like I don’t understand why this is all happening. To be told that she just has a “feeling” that we aren’t supposed to be together days after she was telling her family & friends she’s never been happier …I’m so confused & hurt. I accidentally saw her Instagram stories today (which she normally doesn’t post on at all), and she is posting selfies & all kinds of things that she usually doesn’t post.  She hates selfies & rarely posts on social media. She posted 0 pictures from her family vacation, but all of a sudden, she’s Posting a ton.  It almost like she’s trying to show the her friends & family (or me?) that she’s happy & fine. And nothing is wrong.

I know this is reading into things too much, and I shouldn’t be looking at her social media (I have turned that feature off as of now so I don’t see it again). It’s just not the same person I have known.

It’s so weird & confusing to feel like the person I grew to love is suddenly SO different. And is behaving in a way that’s just not like her.

[SinisterComplex]

Absolutely. That makes sense.

I think the hardest thing right now is feeling like I don’t understand why this is all happening. To be told that she just has a “feeling” that we aren’t supposed to be together days after she was telling her family & friends she’s never been happier …I’m so confused & hurt. I accidentally saw her Instagram stories today (which she normally doesn’t post on at all), and she is posting selfies & all kinds of things that she usually doesn’t post.  She hates selfies & rarely posts on social media. She posted 0 pictures from her family vacation, but all of a sudden, she’s Posting a ton.  It almost like she’s trying to show the her friends & family (or me?) that she’s happy & fine. And nothing is wrong.

I know this is reading into things too much, and I shouldn’t be looking at her social media (I have turned that feature off as of now so I don’t see it again). It’s just not the same person I have known.

It’s so weird & confusing to feel like the person I grew to love is suddenly SO different. And is behaving in a way that’s just not like her.

This is why you truly have to focus on YOU and prioritize yourself. You have to not let your health and normal daily life fall by the way side. Remember you are only in control of YOU and you are only responsible for your own feelings and thoughts. I truly understand how perplexing, confusing, and hard this is. However, we are here to help you, but again...I want to put and emphasis on you taking care of YOU. You have to be kind to yourself right now since you are so vulnerable and in a weakened state. It is ok though because it is natural. This will take time, but you are going to get through this. You are going to be okay. Don't rush anything and just deal with things one step at a time as they come. When you hit a valley and you are desperate reach out here. Talk out your thoughts and feelings.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[babyducks]

Everyone in my life is telling me that my ex (with bipolar disorder & symptoms of BPD)...

I think the hardest thing right now is feeling like I don’t understand why this is all happening.

hello lm1,

I'm wondering if the two statements above can offer some insight.

you've mentioned that you understand she has bipolar and traits of bpd.   and that you are emphatic to her because of it.    still, it seems difficult for you to associate her diagnosed illnesses with her actions.     as if the two don't connect?   I would suggest they connect a great deal.

people who are organized on the cluster B spectrum, behave dramatically and erratically.

even with medication and treatment for years my Ex could and did become psychotic from her bipolar 1.    She was aware and careful but always struggled with the mania of bipolar.     the medication that worked best for her mania, she couldn't tolerate, her kidneys couldn't process it.      during our time together she had two serious episodes of mania.     in one she drove for quite a distance with no hands on the steering wheel,   in her state she believed the wind would steer the car.    fortunately, no one was hurt.    this was part of her, just as much as her good qualities were and she brought both to any relationship.   

Mutt mentioned integrating both the positive and negative aspects of the relationship together, and I couldn't help but notice that you didn't mention the mental health challenges the relationship would have to survive as a negative.     which lead me to believe that this is the first time a deterioration of her stability has impacted you both.

there is a reason why there is a whole website about how to function and protect ourselves during and after a BPD relationship.    it's because unusual and difficult things happen when we love someone with a mental illness.    they can be counted on to happen.    its expected.

simply put I would say that under stress her mood swung dramatically, and she acted out.   it happens.    what I would also say is that to be in a relationship with her, you would have to accept that this happened and may happen again.   can you do that?

which brings me to what SC mentioned, the only person you can control is you and you are responsible for your feelings.     it's hard to build or rebuild resilience.   in the link I provided upstream it mentions that you have to be very strong to be in a BPD relationship and not be damaged by it.    would it help to look for simple things to rebuild your emotional and mental strength?

what do you think?

'ducks

[lovingmyself1st]

I am so grateful for you all to help me think through this. At times I feel very logical & can CLEARLY see that her behavior is likely a result of her mental illness (which I have immense empathy for). Yes, this is the first time her symptoms have come out in this way since we’ve been together. I’ve seen her have panic attacks & be emotional about other things, but never in this way.

 I need to work on recognizing that when I’m feeling more emotional, it’s harder for me to see that clearly right now - likely because everything feels heightened. For example, a friend yesterday told me they hung out with my ex, and she mentioned nothing of the breakup & seemed to have a lot of positive energy. The logical side of me says, “hmm, interesting. I wonder if this is due to mania or hypomania?” The emotional side of me is crushed, and thinks, “I’m heartbroken, how is she FINE?”

I’ve been practicing DBT skills for years to help with anxiety, and I need to work on implementing them more efficiently when I’m in that emotion-mind.

At this point, I would be willing to work on reconciliation, and work with a therapist to best learn how to support each other. I’m totally open to that. I am doubtful if she is though.I have things that I’m working on in therapy (radical acceptance, wholehearted living, knowing my worth, etc), and I will continue to work on these with or without my ex in my life. I want to leave to door open to her,, but if I wait right by the door, I think I’m going to drive myself wild. Does that make sense?

I think, and from what y’all have said, the best thing I can do right now is focus on myself, my own healing, based solely on the facts I have right now: we are broken up, she may or may not be in a period of mania and/or suffering symptoms of bpd , and I have a life to continue living. If we find each other  again, we will be lucky.

……still heartbroken & grieving now, and that’s ok.

[lovingmyself1st]

I spent some time with mutual friends of ours last night. These were some of her closest friends, and she's not really talking to them. They say she's cordial to them, but there's been no time spent together, and no time talking about the breakup/medical things she has going on (both of which are big life events that she would normally talk to them about).

I'm so sad & confused.

[babyducks]

hello lm1,

it's natural to go through a period of being sad and upset about the end of any relationship.    it's even more pronounced when it's the end of a BPD relationship.

in BPD relationships we are trained to focus only on their feelings and actions.   we tend to lose ourselves because of it.    every little thing they do or don't do becomes enormously significant.   every little thing they do or don't do, wounds us further.   we focus on, maybe even fixate on what they are doing and what it ~means~.

I can't tell you the number of posts I've read where someone says,  she posted this on social media,  she unblocked me on some app,   he sent this text message,   I got this email.    usually it's an agonized plea for explanation.    What does this all mean.   how could they?

but here's the thing.    the advice is usually 'stop paying attention'.    stop paying attention to the social media, the app, the text, whatever it is.    that's a hard one to do.   we are fixated.    the reason the advice is to stop paying attention, or stop paying so much attention is to change the focus back on to ourselves.    to reframe things so that our goals, values, feelings, our healing, our recovery becomes job one.

make any sense?

I could probably say that I had an obsession with my Ex for a while.    a pretty strong obsession.    she consumed a lot of my thoughts and energy.    I had to be deliberate about gently turning my thoughts and energy away from her and onto other things.    it was a process of letting go.   

it's okay to tell your mutual friends that you are not in a place to hear about her right now.   it's okay to tell your mutual friends that you would rather not talk about what's going on with her.    after all, how did listening to them, help you?

what do you think?
'ducks