Co-Parenting Advise Needed

[EZEarache]

So ever since our 2 year old son went into daycare last November, it's been one long disease. Maybe a month and half ago he was in the hospital after getting a really bad cough. He ended up having pneumonia caused by 3 separate viruses. He recovered quickly after antibiotics. Last week our son came down with a bad cough, again.  According to the teacher when I picked him up last night, "All of the kids in daycare are sick right now."

My co-parent took him to the doctors on Friday after he was up coughing all night Thursday. They gave him a nebulizer and told her to come in for a follow up today.

Today he was diagnosed with an ear infection and he needs to return to the office for an appointment with a pulmonologist. I offered to take him to the next appointment, but was immediately shot down.

What the doctor said according to my co-parent via text was, "Not to put you on the spot or anything but it may be a good idea to check for mold at your place. I just spent 1.5 hours with the doctor running through every single possible thing it could be. The cough and hospital visit cropped up not long after your move and hasn't improved much off medicine since then. I'm sure it's nothing it's worth looking into as a correlation (although certainly not necessarily causation) She also mentioned if people are smoking on either side"

I responded, "I haven't noticed any mold and I also don't smoke anything. I can hire someone to check for mold if you think it's worth while."  (Side note my coparent with BPD is a pothead. I stopped smoking before our relationship ended because I was trying to regain control of the situation. I never really picked it back up for going on close to two years now.)

She continued, "Or maybe a dirty vent in the a/c. Do whatever you feel is right. I'm just sharing what the doctor told me."

I replied, "more likley dirt in the AC."

CoParent's response "As I wrote above, "if the people on the OTHER side" are smoking. Again I'm just sharing what the doctor said. Don't shoot the messenger.

I thought it over and remembered that there was a roof leak when I first moved into my new house that is fixed and decided maybe I better get the test.

I wrote, "I have an appointment for a Mold and Air Quality test on Wednesday. You might want to consider doing this also."

CoParent response, "Yes, thank you, the doctor and I had a conversation about it today. You don't need to worry about me, we had a very detailed conversation, I spent 1.5 hours there with them, the doctor, and a few nurses talking about all the potential things it could be. But thanks for the concern."

OK so here's the thing, there's definitely mold in her finished basement. You could see it growing on the walls. After I moved out I stored a few things there until I moved into my own place. When I pulled it out it smelled terrible.

Although on the surface these text comments are all pretty low key and functional, there is a whole lot of projection and blame shifting occurring subsurface.

For example, she is distorting the facts with, "The cough and hospital visit cropped up not long after your move and hasn't improved much off medicine since then." I moved into the new house in April. The issues with coughing started in December and have been a constant since then.

I am also noticing that she shifted from saying "smoking on EITHER side" to "smoking on the OTHER side." This scares the crap out of me because who knows what she's telling the doctors about me.

I am really trying hard to be a good dad to my son, and I just feel like my BPD coparent's ultimate goal is to see me fail.

So since I was shut out of going to the follow up appointment, how do I get the straight non-BPD distorted version of the doctors comments? Should I buckle down and really try to get her to do this mold test? Is it not worth the angst that is assured to result from it?

In my personal opinion, the issue is that he's in daycare and he's going to be constantly sick until we either hire a private babysitter again, one of us stops working, or he gets out of elementary school. I think he actually caught a new cold that is different from the one he had last week and is now fighting off two colds similar to what happened when he was in the hospital.

[kells76]

First of all, this sounds exactly like DH's kids' mom. So, you have my sympathies 

What the doctor said according to my co-parent via text was, "Not to put you on the spot or anything but it may be a good idea to check for mold at your place. I just spent 1.5 hours with the doctor running through every single possible thing it could be. The cough and hospital visit cropped up not long after your move and hasn't improved much off medicine since then. I'm sure it's nothing it's worth looking into as a correlation (although certainly not necessarily causation) She also mentioned if people are smoking on either side"

You are right to be suspicious of what she asserts the doctor said, without hearing it from the doctor directly.

I responded, "I haven't noticed any mold and I also don't smoke anything. I can hire someone to check for mold if you think it's worth while."  (Side note my coparent with BPD is a pothead. I stopped smoking before our relationship ended because I was trying to regain control of the situation. I never really picked it back up for going on close to two years now.)

She continued, "Or maybe a dirty vent in the a/c. Do whatever you feel is right. I'm just sharing what the doctor told me."

I replied, "more likley dirt in the AC."

CoParent's response "As I wrote above, "if the people on the OTHER side" are smoking. Again I'm just sharing what the doctor said. Don't shoot the messenger.

I thought it over and remembered that there was a roof leak when I first moved into my new house that is fixed and decided maybe I better get the test.

I wrote, "I have an appointment for a Mold and Air Quality test on Wednesday. You might want to consider doing this also."

CoParent response, "Yes, thank you, the doctor and I had a conversation about it today. You don't need to worry about me, we had a very detailed conversation, I spent 1.5 hours there with them, the doctor, and a few nurses talking about all the potential things it could be. But thanks for the concern."

wow, yes. It's like there's a script. Even the hint that she may be part of contributing to Son's issues... she can't handle that. None of it is her fault. "It's just what the doctor said [that you're the problem]". I had a GREAT conversation with the DOCTOR... I did THIS... I did THAT... I'm an EXPERT... I can tell YOU what to do...

It's not winnable. Even something that should be about doing a tangible thing to help the kids, will get turned into a referendum on which parent is better and which is worse. Hint, she will try to win every time.

If it were me or DH, as soon as she said that "do whatever you feel is right" line, I'd end it with "thanks, sounds good".

Normal people, normal coparenting, you can troubleshoot and brainstorm together. She won't be able to do this because it involves shared responsibility that hints that she may have played a part in Son's issues. She doubles down on her amazing conversations and "deep discussions" with the doctors (notice this puts her "above" on a level with them, above you) to cope.

Even as soon as she ended her first text, before you replied with "I haven't noticed any mold...", I'd end it there with something similar: "thanks for the heads up, appreciate it".

Moving to "I haven't noticed any mold" starts taking things to JADE territory. With a "broadly normal" coparent yes, you can explain that XYZ at your house isn't contributing, and then move to brainstorming. She can't do it. She can't handle explanations that will call into question if she's "the bad one" and so it isn't fruitful.

As soon as possible after ending the texting with BIFF tools, I'd independently and without asking her thoughts do everything you plan on -- the mold inspection, maybe change AC filter, etc. And then I'd independently set up a call or appt with the doctor and say: "Hi Doc, here's what I've ruled out on my end, here's the mold inspector report, tried putting in new AC filter, plus added HEPA standalone air filtration unit. How long should it be before we see improvement with Son?"

So since I was shut out of going to the follow up appointment, how do I get the straight non-BPD distorted version of the doctors comments? Should I buckle down and really try to get her to do this mold test? Is it not worth the angst that is assured to result from it?

Is the follow up appt on her parenting time or yours?

Even if it's her PT, it's not completely unusual for both parents to show up at a medical appt on one parent's PT. You guys share med decisions right?

If you think it would be too high conflict, just set up that different separate dr appt for just you and the dr. Or bring in Son to the dr on your time, if she'll make an issue about "you can't come on my time".

Don't try to get her to do anything, don't suggest she "consider doing something too". In parallel do everything on your end that you need to do, and have the doctor document when you should see Son getting better. If you can get that independent appt with the dr, maybe let him know "I don't know if Son's Mom did ABC or not, and she'll probably hear it better from you, so if you could confirm with her next time she's in what she has and hasn't done, that'd be great. Here's all my documentation for his file."

...

Nutshell: as sad as it is, and as simple as a problem as this should be to solve, you can't work with her on it, as you're seeing, as she resorts to blame and one-upsmanship instead of focusing on brainstorming and practical problem solving. Your valuable energy gets sucked into trying to use normal methods to figure this out. It'll never go anywhere. She can't hear it from you. Maybe she can from professionals, that might be your best bet.

Say to her "thanks for the info" and work in parallel on your own. Don't ask her if she thinks you should do something or thinks something is worthwhile. Decide and inform, don't ask and wait. Get stuff documented, get your own appts with the doc, make sure the doc knows you finished XYZ and ask doc what you should be looking for in Son now that you did XYZ.

I'm sorry you're dealing with Her too.

[Manic Miner]

For example, she is distorting the facts with, "The cough and hospital visit cropped up not long after your move and hasn't improved much off medicine since then." I moved into the new house in April. The issues with coughing started in December and have been a constant since then.
I am also noticing that she shifted from saying "smoking on EITHER side" to "smoking on the OTHER side." This scares the crap out of me because who knows what she's telling the doctors about me.

I am really trying hard to be a good dad to my son, and I just feel like my BPD coparent's ultimate goal is to see me fail.

Sorry to hear your son is having medical problems. Have you tried an allergy test?
 
When I was very young, a bit older than your son, I used to be sick every winter. I had that mild but lingering cold/cough throughout the year as well. Had pneumonia numerous times in winter, breathing like an asthma sufferer. One time I was even screened for tuberculosis. My parents were doctors and they got concerned. Turned out I was allergic to dust mites that were most active in winter, in warm homes and blankets. When they started multiplying I was coughing and wheezing. It wasn't asthma but this mixture of short breath and cough that didn't go away. And when it did, it returned back. It took my parents several years to actually find this connection.

Of course it's possible that the only problem here is him going to school and mixing with other kids that share all kinds of viruses. I'm not sure mold is the cause. The room needs to be heavily infested, child needs to be allergic/sensitive to it and stay in that space for longer. Just my opinion, not a doctor myself.

Based on what you wrote here, I don't necessarily think she'd like to see you fail or going against you in that sense.
Rather, as a BPD, she's insecure, prone to misjudgments, easily influenced by others, regardless of who you are and what you did. Accepting her own responsibility is hard, so "blaming" you or anyone is the easiest thing. That doesn't mean she can't be reasoned with if you show that you care and you do your part.

[EZEarache]

Thanks for the quick response Kells and ManicMiner!

Is the follow up appt on her parenting time or yours?

It's on her day. Her initial message said, next week, and I was going to just say I'll do it. Then when I volunteered to go to the next appointment she changed it to, "The appointment's on Friday." This complicates things, because she already is on a staycation and therefore doesn't have to work. (Whole other story there that I won't get into) I'm out of vacation time at work because daycare kept getting shut down due to Covid outbreaks. I really can't take off anymore time from work, and she knows this. So it's hard for me to justify going to an appointment that she completely has covered.

Even if it's her PT, it's not completely unusual for both parents to show up at a medical appt on one parent's PT. You guys share med decisions right?

There is no formal court order. We've managed to keep things out of court so far. She is entirely covering insurance through her work. My employer doesn't offer family insurance, so it's not an option. She has a major problem accepting any sort of help, financial or otherwise. So it's really a gray area. She definitely likes to be in control of everything. I think the text thread above demonstrates that pretty well. I'm pretty confident if I tried to make myself more prominent in medical decisions it would lead to a great deal of conflict. Ultimately, I think she has the boy's health as her top priority.

If you think it would be too high conflict, just set up that different separate dr appt for just you and the dr. Or bring in Son to the dr on your time, if she'll make an issue about "you can't come on my time".

Considering she started playing pin the blame on the donkey when our son was in the hospital, which caused me to need to leave the situation, I don't think it's a good idea for us to both be in an appointment together. I'm even more triggered by her now when I recognize what is occurring than I was before I moved out, unfortunately. We do most of our handoffs through daycare fortunately. Therefore, there is very little actual interaction.

"If you can get that independent appt with the dr, maybe let him know "I don't know if Son's Mom did ABC or not, and she'll probably hear it better from you, so if you could confirm with her next time she's in what she has and hasn't done, that'd be great. Here's all my documentation for his file."

I think this is what I need to do, thank you. Hopefully I'll get some more details about what is occurring tomorrow after the appointment with the pulmonologist. I was thinking I'd write something like: Thank you for being so diligent about the babies doctor's appointments. I am very concerned about his health. I would like to take him to his next appointment with the pulmonologist to hear what he has to say."

Do you think that would get me anywhere Kells?

Have you tried an allergy test?

No, I'm not sure if that was even discussed in the 90 minute appointment. I would hope so, because I was thinking maybe that could be it for a long time. It also got to be spring about the same time I moved into my place so there is definitely a potential correlation to allergic reactions to non-native/flower plants.

When I was very young, a bit older than your son, I used to be sick every winter. I had that mild but lingering cold/cough throughout the year as well. Had pneumonia numerous times in winter, breathing like an asthma sufferer. One time I was even screened for tuberculosis. My parents were doctors and they got concerned. Turned out I was allergic to dust mites that were most active in winter, in warm homes and blankets. When they started multiplying I was coughing and wheezing. It wasn't asthma but this mixture of short breath and cough that didn't go away. And when it did, it returned back. It took my parents several years to actually find this connection.

This is a very accurate description of what is occurring. There's an old carpet upstairs in the bedrooms. There could be dustmites in that I suppose. I wonder if they will check for that in the air quality test. I definitely need to ask them. Thanks for your insight ManicMiner. It is very helpful.

Based on what you wrote here, I don't necessarily think she'd like to see you fail or going against you in that sense.
Rather, as a BPD, she's insecure, prone to misjudgments, easily influenced by others, regardless of who you are and what you did. Accepting her own responsibility is hard, so "blaming" you or anyone is the easiest thing. That doesn't mean she can't be reasoned with if you show that you care and you do your part.

Nah, she's wanted me out of the picture for a long time, now. She tried to have me committed to a mental institution. I think she believed that would be the end of me and I would have no contact with the child because I was too unstable. The only problem was that I wasn't admitted. Then through therapy and research along with this board, I was able to identify a pattern of emotional abuse that was making me crazy.

[kells76]

Hopefully I'll get some more details about what is occurring tomorrow after the appointment with the pulmonologist. I was thinking I'd write something like: Thank you for being so diligent about the babies doctor's appointments. I am very concerned about his health. I would like to take him to his next appointment with the pulmonologist to hear what he has to say."

Do you think that would get me anywhere Kells?

Am I tracking correctly, that you're wondering if writing that to your son's mom would be helpful?

If so, I'm leaning towards "no", for this reason:

The first part sounds good -- "thank you for being so diligent" etc.

The last part, however, looks to me like an open door for conflict, because you're "hopefully suggesting" to her what "you would really like to do".

In a normal coparenting relationship, the other parent would say something like "sounds good, am fine with trading off" or "that's fine, FYI I'll prob show up for it too".

I suspect in your relationship, what she'd do with that "I'd like to take him" statement is say something like: "I have it covered. I have a great relationship with the doctors and nurses so I will tell you afterwards what they told me to tell you to do. Son does worse when you're at the appointments too."

She cannot in her emotional world allow you to be an equal parent. There is no room for "both-and" in her fragility. She must put you below in order to emotionally survive and not fall apart. This extends to sacrificing your son's well-being to prop up her precious self image of "amazing, devoted, healthy, supportive mom".

...

So at this point, because there's no court order spelling out anything different, you both, if I'm remembering correctly, have equal parenting rights.

There is nothing stopping you from making the appt on your own time with son. I would recommend a "deciding and informing" approach: you think about what your son needs (which can include you getting direct information to help him), you decide what needs to be done and set it up, and you inform her later about it. The "inform her" part could look like informing her of an upcoming appt on your time, or informing her after the appt of what was discussed. It can be higher conflict to do the "inform after the fact", but it's an option.

Asking her, even indirectly, if she's OK with you doing something is just an invitation to conflict.

You may need to build strong parallel relationships with the professionals involved so that you come across as "equal parent". Don't present yourself as "just dad" and send the message, even tacitly, that they can just tell Mom stuff, probably Mom will tell Dad what's up. You have every right to be part of your son's medical care, it just needs to be structured a little differently than normal. Assertiveness, calling the dr office for updates, letting them know that you'll be getting info directly from them... that's the way to go.

It can be nonintuitive in coparenting to find the hidden ways that the other parent creates conflict. It takes some practice to see how "normal" things we'd do or say or text are huge invitations to the conflict party. Basically, whenever you can minimize what you say and do as much as possible in parallel on your own with direct sources, the better.

It's hard, but it's doable. Doing it right now, been doing it for... a while 

[ForeverDad]

What was helpful for me was that my heat pump & AC repairman installed a UV light in our home's duct near the unit's evaporator.  So it treated all the airflow.  No moldy smells anymore.

[Turkish]

If only I had a dollar for every time I've heard "D has an infection in her privates. [Months later or a year]  S has one. Did you clean the tub? Can you clean the tub? What kind of laundry soap are you using? It might be irritating D. Kids are sick coming back from you.  Did you check the house filter? Can you hire a maid? I saw you let the dog sleep with the kids. Here's a link from a doctor that says that's unhealthy. What did you feed them?"

[EZEarache]

The first part sounds good -- "thank you for being so diligent" etc.

The last part, however, looks to me like an open door for conflict, because you're "hopefully suggesting" to her what "you would really like to do".

Yeah I usually am able to get the Brief, Friendly, Informative parts down. My problem is with Firm. I tend to be a go with a flow kind of a guy. She is a control freak. I was O.K. with it because I have a pretty demanding job and if she wanted to make the decisions on things, it meant less thinking and stressing about it for me. Now that we're broken up, it is a little less than desirable.

In a normal coparenting relationship, the other parent would say something like "sounds good, am fine with trading off" or "that's fine, FYI I'll prob show up for it too".

I suspect in your relationship, what she'd do with that "I'd like to take him" statement is say something like: "I have it covered. I have a great relationship with the doctors and nurses so I will tell you afterwards what they told me to tell you to do. Son does worse when you're at the appointments too."

She cannot in her emotional world allow you to be an equal parent. There is no room for "both-and" in her fragility. She must put you below in order to emotionally survive and not fall apart. This extends to sacrificing your son's well-being to prop up her precious self image of "amazing, devoted, healthy, supportive mom".

It's like you've met her before, LOL.

...

So at this point, because there's no court order spelling out anything different, you both, if I'm remembering correctly, have equal parenting rights.

Yeah more or less, but I believe since she is making all of the copays and insurance payments, she is a little bit more entitled to doctors appointments than I am. Everything else has been completely 50/50 since January after he got settled into day care.

There is nothing stopping you from making the appt on your own time with son. I would recommend a "deciding and informing" approach: you think about what your son needs (which can include you getting direct information to help him), you decide what needs to be done and set it up, and you inform her later about it. The "inform her" part could look like informing her of an upcoming appt on your time, or informing her after the appt of what was discussed. It can be higher conflict to do the "inform after the fact", but it's an option.

This is going to really piss her off really bad. I just need to be more firm. Instead of saying I would like. I will say, I am going to the follow up appointment. If she ends up being there, I'll just have to really be prepared for dysregulation and manage my reactions. In a best case scenario she goes into rage mode, and the doctors see the dynamics.

Asking her, even indirectly, if she's OK with you doing something is just an invitation to conflict.

You are soo correct. About four or five months before the end of the relationship she started fighting with me because I would say, "Do you want me to..." This included things like Do you want me to change the diaper, etc. The response was, "you're just like your mother." It was intended and phrased in a really derogatory manner. She wanted me to do things like just rip the baby away from her and take care of it, I guess. Obviously that would lead to a different type of conflict because that's what she would do to me and it was what really sparked the huge weeklong fight that eventually led to our total demise.

You may need to build strong parallel relationships with the professionals involved so that you come across as "equal parent". Don't present yourself as "just dad" and send the message, even tacitly, that they can just tell Mom stuff, probably Mom will tell Dad what's up. You have every right to be part of your son's medical care, it just needs to be structured a little differently than normal. Assertiveness, calling the dr office for updates, letting them know that you'll be getting info directly from them... that's the way to go.

It can be nonintuitive in coparenting to find the hidden ways that the other parent creates conflict. It takes some practice to see how "normal" things we'd do or say or text are huge invitations to the conflict party. Basically, whenever you can minimize what you say and do as much as possible in parallel on your own with direct sources, the better.

It's hard, but it's doable. Doing it right now, been doing it for... a while 

This is all really good advise thank you so much.

[EZEarache]

What was helpful for me was that my heat pump & AC repairman installed a UV light in our home's duct near the unit's evaporator.  So it treated all the airflow.  No moldy smells anymore.

I'll keep this in mind when I replace the air conditioner compressor. Thanks!

[EZEarache]

If only I had a dollar for every time I've heard "D has an infection in her privates. [Months later or a year]  S has one. Did you clean the tub? Can you clean the tub? What kind of laundry soap are you using? It might be irritating D. Kids are sick coming back from you.  Did you check the house filter? Can you hire a maid? I saw you let the dog sleep with the kids. Here's a link from a doctor that says that's unhealthy. What did you feed them?"

Oh the links to articles describing why I am deficient or what I want to do is a bad idea... I guess I will just need to get used to shelling out lots of money to appease her.

[Turkish]

Oh the links to articles describing why I am deficient or what I want to do is a bad idea... I guess I will just need to get used to shelling out lots of money to appease her.

No. If there's a custody agreement, then you're better shielded. Brush up on boundaries. I've grown to mostly shine her on. It takes time and work to step out of the dynamic you had when together and felt you had no choice.

2.03 | B.I.F.F. Technique for Communications

[EZEarache]

No. If there's a custody agreement, then you're better shielded. Brush up on boundaries. I've grown to mostly shine her on. It takes time and work to step out of the dynamic you had when together and felt you had no choice.

There's no court ordered custody agreement. We were never married. If this ended up getting into the attorney's hands we would both just throw evidence back and forth at each other about how unfit the other side is and spend a lot of money. At the end of the day we'd probably end up in the same agreement we put in place with the couples therapist when she decided to throw in the towel.

[Turkish]

I paid for my own lawyer to write a stipulation (including CS), and took months telling my ex it protected us all. It was about $1800. We weren't married. It protects the kids in that neither parent can move out of the county, much less the state, without the other's permission, nor travel out of state.  In California, we didn't have to go to court, just file the stipulation for a judge to sign.

That all said, if it works for you, then it works for now, and a custody stipulation or order would not address the things about which she is complaining.