My pwBPD shreds me to pieces

[Buddy Joe]

These are the things she would tell me because at that moment these are her raw feelings:

“I hate you.”
“I never felt safe with you.”
“You never loved me.”
"It's very unfortunate for any girl to have you as their partner."
"You are such a bad person. You're so bad!"
"You're such a selfish person! You calculate everything."
“I want a partner who is open with me. Someone who will take the risk of being vulnerable, who will make me feel safe.”
“I’m really not happy.”
“I want to focus on the good ones. And that’s not us anymore”
“You're not even close to what I want.”

“See! This is how vengeful you can get! And I’m not like that!”
       > Really? With everything she tells me?
“You never understood me.”
        > I want a partner that’s vulnerable with me and who can keep me safe.
"You're even worse than my mom."
        > Considering the trauma she has because of her mom and that's the reason why she has BPD to begin with.
“I am so disgusted with how we are when we fight.”
        > When a big part of how we fight is how she reacts to the situation. She won't stop nagging you until you crack and once you do she'll paint you as the bad person afterwards. When I do explode it backfires because I wasn’t able to keep my composure.
        > It’s so hard to just focus on the issue and apologize for it when you’re being attacked below the belt every time there's a confrontation.
        > Calling our relationship very unhealthy when she plays a big part in why it’s toxic.
        > It’s hard to just be simply accountable and say sorry for all these things when she's the reason why we have such a toxic way of arguing. It’s difficult to be objective about it.

White lies and lying by omission
       * I’ve come to the point that saying less is better because bottomline is whatever I say I'll be in the wrong even if I was honest. She doesn’t take it well but when it's her turn to talk to me, she really makes me feel like I'm the scum of the earth and I'm not good enough at all. And that should be understandable because that's her. Those are the things she expects of me. I should understand and just let go of all the hurtful words thrown at me.
        * How can I be frank with her when my side of the story gets distorted by how she understands it? So many fights that I chose to just be quiet and bite my tongue to not add more fuel to the fire.
        * When I open up to her or when it's my turn to talk all she tells would be “it’s all about you again” or “how is this about you now?” or "okay, let's talk about your FEELINGS and shrug mine off."
        * When I don’t open up or be honest with my feelings I lie by omission.
        * When I tell her what I truly feel, “I’m attacking her” or “I’m becoming vengeful”
        * When I say something it’s just all assumptions and not based on facts. But when it's her it's all based on facts.

How the hell can you be objective about all these things when it really kills me inside hearing them again and again and again? How can she just say all these things to me? I feel worthless and dispensable.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

First of all, realize that these are her feelings in the moment. If she truly felt them all of the time, she would not be in a relationship with you. It’s much like a two year old saying, “I hate you,” when you wouldn’t buy them cookies at the grocery store.

People with BPD (pwBPD) can often say the most cruel things in the morning, and then be warm and loving the next day as if they have no memory of their unkindness.

We say with pwBPD: FEELINGS EQUAL FACTS.

That she is tremendously unkind in one moment indicates how she feels then, and is not necessarily an indictment of how she feels about you generally.

To have a successful relationship with a pwBPD, you have to develop a thick skin and and an unwillingness to participate in conflict.

[Buddy Joe]

To have a successful relationship with a pwBPD, you have to develop a thick skin and and an unwillingness to participate in conflict.

I guess that’s why it’s difficult for me. I’m naturally a sensitive person and because of this relationship I’ve been trying so hard not to get easily affected by her. I try my best to look at it objectively but when her words pierces through my heart that still leaves a mark.

I often find myself invalidated when she tells me I am just overly sensitive that’s why I react this way or interpret the things she tells me in a negative light. Her painting me as sensitive would often indirectly lead to her statement of justifying what she did wasn’t cruel.

[guitarguy09]

To have a successful relationship with a pwBPD, you have to develop a thick skin and and an unwillingness to participate in conflict.

This. I used to have long dragged out arguments with my BPD wife, until I learned it was never fruitful and often made the conflict worse. Now whenever she gets really mad, I let her rant for as long as she wants, and it has a very small effect on me. I don't let much of what she says affect me as a person because I know she's in a distorted way of thinking. I try to validate her emotions as much as I can (which is quite difficult), but try not to let things escalate. You need to be able to handle doing that on a nearly daily basis to improve the relationship.

[guitarguy09]

I guess that’s why it’s difficult for me. I’m naturally a sensitive person and because of this relationship I’ve been trying so hard not to get easily affected by her. I try my best to look at it objectively but when her words pierces through my heart that still leaves a mark.

I often find myself invalidated when she tells me I am just overly sensitive that’s why I react this way or interpret the things she tells me in a negative light. Her painting me as sensitive would often indirectly lead to her statement of justifying what she did wasn’t cruel.

I can definitely empathize with you on the lying aspect. My wife tells white lies all the time. I am a sensitive person also, but I guess I "hardened" my heart so I don't let her nonsense affect my well being. I hope some of this is helpful to you. I know this is so hard.

[Buddy Joe]

I try to validate her emotions as much as I can (which is quite difficult), but try not to let things escalate. You need to be able to handle doing that on a nearly daily basis to improve the relationship.

Hi, Guitarguy09! 

If I may ask, how do you validate her emotions? What are the key phrases that you say in order to slowly help her return to her baseline?

By validating her emotions, does she automatically feel that she is in the right and you are in the wrong? How do you shrug it off and maintain your sanity? Unfortunately for myself, I tried this angle before to acknowledge whatever she was saying and feeling, I ended up digging my own grave because the effect on my girlfriend was "I'm right and you're wrong."

I know she must have joked about this when we were starting but I can't help but believe that this will be theme of my life as long as I am with her and there is no progress with her therapy: "It will always be your fault whatever happens."

[Buddy Joe]

I can definitely empathize with you on the lying aspect. My wife tells white lies all the time. I am a sensitive person also, but I guess I "hardened" my heart so I don't let her nonsense affect my well being. I hope some of this is helpful to you. I know this is so hard.

I applaud you and commend you for having the strength mentally and emotionally to be able to evolve for your wife in order to make things work. I hope I get there one day and that things would be automatic. I'm still at this point wherein if I choose to harden my heart and not get easily affected by the things she tells me, a part of me is allowing her to talk me down and I'm not up for that. Since we've been in the cat and mouse chase wherein she tells me something nasty and I get hurt because I'm sensitive, me being sensitive is just an excuse of hers to justify whatever she did or say was fine or wasn't even worth getting hurt by.

How do you break that kind of cycle? To minimize if not refrain how my pwBPD invalidates me?

[Blueberry Cat]

Hello - Is that a rhetorical question would you like my humble opinion ?

[Buddy Joe]

Hello - Is that a rhetorical question would you like my humble opinion ?

Of course, you may. 

[LifewithEase]

Buddy Joe,

Your post resonates with many of us:

> When a big part of how we fight is how she reacts to the situation. She won't stop nagging you until you crack and once you do she'll paint you as the bad person afterwards. When I do explode it backfires because I wasn’t able to keep my composure.
        > It’s so hard to just focus on the issue and apologize for it when you’re being attacked below the belt every time there's a confrontation.
        > Calling our relationship very unhealthy when she plays a big part in why it’s toxic.

I'm trying to navigate this with JADE technique; building boundaries; and as so many of the books and friends on this board  suggest: work on myself.

It is so hard, however. I'm exhausted.

Every day she tries to provoke me into a fight. I'm also going through the phase where as boundaries are establish she goes at me more often and even harsher. I guess, it gets better after it is harder?

The unfair, below the belt insults were the hardest for so long but they are getting easier. They bounce off my skin now [kinda].

A few weeks ago she was in a rage and I would not fight with her. She kept barging into my office accusing, insulting "you are the most insensitive person I have ever met" [ironic right?] but then she said "you have no humanity, none. you're at the point where you have lost all of your humanity." That comment made it all click for me. It was so over the top it reenforced how this is her chaos, not mine.

P.S. I'm very sure I have a healthy wonderful base of humanity as a person and toward others.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm also going through the phase where as boundaries are establish she goes at me more often and even harsher. I guess, it gets better after it is harder?

This is an Extinction Burst.
“The definition of an extinction burst is a sudden and dramatic increase in behavior when reinforcement for that behavior has been removed. It is a temporary response pattern and will diminish and then stop as the reinforcement for the behavior no longer follows the voluntary action.”

Have you ever seen someone putting money into a vending machine and when the machine doesn’t deliver the chosen snack, begin to kick and pound on the machine?

This is similar to when insults no longer elicit the desired behavior, and the pwBPD tries to be even more cruel to get the outcome they want, whether it be an apology, contrition, agreement or whatever.

To go back to the vending machine, do you think that individual will drop more money into it, hoping for a different result?

When we experience an extinction burst from our partner, it is very important not to give in. Otherwise we train them that behaving even worse than usual will get them the outcome they desire.

A few weeks ago she was in a rage and I would not fight with her. She kept barging into my office accusing, insulting "you are the most insensitive person I have ever met" [ironic right?] but then she said "you have no humanity, none. you're at the point where you have lost all of your humanity." That comment made it all click for me. It was so over the top it reenforced how this is her chaos, not mine.

By definition, you would not be posting here if you had “no humanity.”  

Sometimes the insults are so ludicrous, they’re funny.

I’ve been told that I’m a “robot woman.” Haven’t heard that for a long time, but if I do in the future, I’m prepared with an R2-D2 voice and to move my body in a robotic way, saying “I’m at your service, Sir.”

[Buddy Joe]

It is so hard, however. I'm exhausted.

I'm with you, LifewithEase. I'm also tired. Every time there's an episode or she drags me down, I get emotionally exhausted and unlike my pwBPD who bounces back quickly since her emotions are erratic. I don't have time to nurse myself back up and just shrug off the things she spewed out.

A few weeks ago she was in a rage and I would not fight with her. She kept barging into my office accusing, insulting "you are the most insensitive person I have ever met" [ironic right?] but then she said "you have no humanity, none. you're at the point where you have lost all of your humanity." That comment made it all click for me. It was so over the top it reenforced how this is her chaos, not mine.

"This is her chaos, not mine." I finally got to put the pieces after 4 years that she is projecting her pain towards me and choosing to make it my truth. She paints me to be this mean partner and I noticed that whatever she would paint me with is how she really is/worst it's the thing she hates the most yet she does it to me without noticing. She dislikes it when I become critical or logical that her words and actions do not match, which leaves me confused. Turns out I shouldn't bring up those things and just let her be and leave the room or end the conversation altogether when it becomes toxic.

P.S. I'm very sure I have a healthy wonderful base of humanity as a person and toward others.

I'm very sure you do. I'm with you. 

[Buddy Joe]

This is similar to when insults no longer elicit the desired behavior, and the pwBPD tries to be even more cruel to get the outcome they want, whether it be an apology, contrition, agreement or whatever.

I am exactly experiencing this. When I try to disengage and ask her to stop or park it so we can cool down, she just gets all the more riled up until she pushes my buttons all the more so then she gets the reaction she wanted from me at the start.

Sometimes the insults are so ludicrous, they’re funny.

Oh, yes! They really are. Sometimes I am just in disbelief. Although there was a time in our relationship that I really questioned my worth as a person because of all the nasty things she said about me. That was such a dark time in my life. I ended up fighting it by lifting myself up so I don't get lost in this and in turn eventually get ruined by her.

I’ve been told that I’m a “robot woman.” Haven’t heard that for a long time, but if I do in the future, I’m prepared with an R2-D2 voice and to move my body in a robotic way, saying “I’m at your service, Sir.”

Cat, you are hilarious! I love your humor! 

[Ergonomics]

Hi there! I am fairly new to this community and my journey of healing my relationship, so do take what I say with a grain of salt. I've heard many of the same comments from my wife as well, and I've been making great headway in diving deeper into my conversations with her, and really keeping my cool in understanding her despite the accusations.

For me, what I tell myself is this...

She is telling me these harsh truths not because she wants to hurt me, to accuse me of something, but to actually help me see something that I may not be seeing, my blind spots. And she says these because she wants me to be better.

If she did not care, she would have left, and not say anything (e.g. How sometimes you don't give someone a feedback they need to hear because you think to yourself "What's the point, they won't get it anyway).

If she's saying it, that means that she still cares, that there is some ounce of belief in there somewhere.

And repeatedly, I also find that what she says isn't really what she means - that there are deeper contexts behind what she says, and every time I understand these deeper contexts, I start to calm down, she calms down, and we understand each other deeper.

[Buddy Joe]

She is telling me these harsh truths not because she wants to hurt me, to accuse me of something, but to actually help me see something that I may not be seeing, my blind spots. And she says these because she wants me to be better.

I have difficulty in doing this because as for my pwBPD she stretches the truth or even accuses me and chooses to make it her truth. When I don't acknowledge it I just end up invalidating her, but when I acknowledge it I admit to all her accusations. Tricky thing.

If she did not care, she would have left, and not say anything (e.g. How sometimes you don't give someone a feedback they need to hear because you think to yourself "What's the point, they won't get it anyway).

If she's saying it, that means that she still cares, that there is some ounce of belief in there somewhere.

And repeatedly, I also find that what she says isn't really what she means - that there are deeper contexts behind what she says, and every time I understand these deeper contexts, I start to calm down, she calms down, and we understand each other deeper.

I am very happy for you, Ergonomics. Looks like you and your partner are working things out and adjusting to make things work. 

[LifewithEase]

Lots of great stuff here.

Thanks to you all for the support. It is really so important.

Just today she put the logics of her grievance in these terms "So you're saying that you respect the dog and her preferences over respecting me and what I'm telling you what to do." Similar to the "lack of humanity" episode it was so over-the-top I was able to stay calm, not JADE and focus on her pain (but practicing boundaries by not engaging). I'm just not going to take the fight bait.

Cat Familiar, you are consistently so clear and helpful. The vending machine analogy is priceless and helpful. Concept of extinction event is new to me. And it was great to see your humor too.

[guitarguy09]

I applaud you and commend you for having the strength mentally and emotionally to be able to evolve for your wife in order to make things work. I hope I get there one day and that things would be automatic. I'm still at this point wherein if I choose to harden my heart and not get easily affected by the things she tells me, a part of me is allowing her to talk me down and I'm not up for that. Since we've been in the cat and mouse chase wherein she tells me something nasty and I get hurt because I'm sensitive, me being sensitive is just an excuse of hers to justify whatever she did or say was fine or wasn't even worth getting hurt by.

How do you break that kind of cycle? To minimize if not refrain how my pwBPD invalidates me?

You have to consider the source. To a pwBPD, they are the center of the universe, and if someone isn't "treating them" right, it's their fault. I should note too that part of the reason I stay in this marriage is because I can tolerate her most of the time (haha) and we have two older kids that have a ways to go before being out of the house. I don't want to have to deal with custody issues and the expense of divorce.