How to answer those demanding questions best?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Every day once in a while my W comes with questions like:

1) Do you miss me?
2) Do you think about us? What do you think about us?
3) How are you (translated: do you miss me)?

Now, in non-pwBPD, those questions would be even romantic and caring. But in my case, I dread them, ever since we separated. Further, they can be an invitation to party I don't want to go.

There's no easy answer to any of that. I cannot answer with truth, far from it. I cannot say "I'm recovering from drama", "I'm at ease, in a broken, but functional and peaceful state".
I cannot lie, cannot write "Yes babe I miss you so much!" as that would be an invitation for more, offering false hopes for her and me. And I'd lie to myself - I don't miss her. Not at the moment. Because with her comes that little package called drama, 24/7d validation and pointless discussions.

I'm in limbo. And the truth is, I don't know where to go from this. Towards divorce or relationship repair, either right or left. I still have feelings for her. She's very attractive, at times very kind. We can easily click together when in a working state. I miss my daughter. We still have bright moments as a family, but I feel like the line was crossed, at least for now. I am much better and more productive alone. Somewhat happy and at peace.

So, if anyone has some experience with these questions, what's the best way to answer them, without giving much? I'm using SET wherever I can, but even that can be exhausting. Questions get re-asked and I'd love to have something handy to pull out from my sleeve wherever they popup. To soothe her insecurity, but also don't reveal too much.

[Manic Miner]

Every day once in a while my W comes with questions like:

1) Do you miss me?
2) Do you think about us? What do you think about us?
3) How are you (translated: do you miss me)?

Now, in non-pwBPD, those questions would be even romantic and caring. But in my case, I dread them, ever since we separated. Further, they can be an invitation to party I don't want to go.

There's no easy answer to any of that. I cannot answer with truth, far from it. I cannot say "I'm recovering from drama", "I'm at ease, in a broken, but functional and peaceful state".
I cannot lie, cannot write "Yes babe I miss you so much!" as that would be an invitation for more, offering false hopes for her and me. And I'd lie to myself - I don't miss her. Not at the moment. Because with her comes that little package called drama, 24/7d validation and pointless discussions.

I'm in limbo. And the truth is, I don't know where to go from this. Towards divorce or relationship repair, either right or left. I still have feelings for her. She's very attractive, at times very kind. We can easily click together when in a working state. I miss my daughter. We still have bright moments as a family, but I feel like the line was crossed, at least for now. I am much better and more productive alone. Somewhat happy and at peace.

So, if anyone has some experience with these questions, what's the best way to answer them, without giving much? I'm using SET wherever I can, but even that can be exhausting. Questions get re-asked and I'd love to have something handy to pull out from my sleeve wherever they popup. To soothe her insecurity, but also don't reveal too much.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I'd recommend stating the truth in a not too hurtful manner, since you share custody of your kids together... The good thing is, when separated from a pwBPD, over time, no matter how nice you treat her, it will likely end up with a bit of parental alienation anyway. It is the nature of the illness and not really about you. So might as well be true to yourself.

How about not answering at all? And if you really need to answer, then answering by changing the subject? Make it about discussing the things you need to discuss about the kids. Make the subject about what matters now, and not about you and your relationship.

[kells76]

I'd recommend stating the truth in a not too hurtful manner ...  if you really need to answer, then answering by changing the subject?

Riv3rW0lf's approach sounds worth testing. One way it could look is:

"Honey, how could I not miss you, your kindness, and the wonderful times we've had? I'm just about to go make some tea, want me to make some for you too?"

I get not wanting to ignore the question, but I think you're seeing that she isn't really asking a question that can be answered by the statement "Yes, I miss you", because that opens a door to her deep needs and her perception that keeping talking about it, keeping you engaged, maybe even escalating to a circular conversation, or even conflictual engagement that lasts hours, will *maybe this time satisfy her unmeetable emotional needs*.

I think even though the literal words are "do you miss me", the actual question being asked is "will you take responsibility for making me feel better, and can I be mad at you when I don't feel better"...

could that be close?

So, perhaps a brief, truthful acknowledgement of her question, and an immediate "redirect", either to a pleasant distraction, or to a rescheduling of the conversation.

A "rescheduling" example could start like the previous example, then do this:

"Honey, how could I not miss you, your kindness, and the wonderful times we've had? I wish I had time to talk more about this right now, how about over brunch on Sunday?"

That gently puts the responsibility back in her lap. You're not declining to converse about it, but you're also not accepting that dropping everything and having the "do you miss me" conversation right now (to assuage her feelings) is OK.

Food for thought...

[Manic Miner]

parental alienation anyway. It is the nature of the illness and not really about you. So might as well be true to yourself.

Can you please explain what is parental alienation? In which sense? Don't all (healthy) divorced couples experience some degree of "alienation"? Or I missed the point?

How about not answering at all? And if you really need to answer, then answering by changing the subject? Make it about discussing the things you need to discuss about the kids. Make the subject about what matters now, and not about you and your relationship.

Over the years I think I tried everything. Changing subjects gently, let's talk another day, humour, our cats, look at the weather, let's talk with our MC, let's watch film together, let's go somewhere, you name it - I probably tried. She returns the topic every.single.time. No exception. Sometimes I think other topics and small talk exist just so she can bring that "hot" issue she faces, not other way around.

The more I linger, the more she is fixated on issue and the more I annoy her. She senses that I'm escaping the question. She's incredibly intelligent too. The only thing that can distract her or make her ease the tension are other people that can pop out of nowhere. For example, our neighbour on the door. One time was even the pizza guy. He literally saved me from the upcoming misery. He cut the cord by just briefly interacting with her. Nothing else. But alas, I cannot order pizza every time I'm facing those questions.  

because that opens a door to her deep needs and her perception that keeping talking about it, keeping you engaged, maybe even escalating to a circular conversation, or even conflictual engagement that lasts hours, will *maybe this time satisfy her unmeetable emotional needs*.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I called an invitation to party I don't want to go.

I think even though the literal words are "do you miss me", the actual question being asked is "will you take responsibility for making me feel better, and can I be mad at you when I don't feel better"...

could that be close?

Close? That's spot on! That's exactly what's happening. When we returned from our vacation and after having long talk that didn't end up well for her, she started pulling our photographs from the wall. I literally had to take the frames off the wall so she wouldn't butcher them. After she went away, her rage passed and she called me on the phone. I heard in her voice that she was sorry. But did she apologize or take responsibility? Of course not. In fact, tomorrow she told me how that was justified by some nonsense and took one more picture from the wall, as same kind of emotions struck her. Rinse and repeat.

So yeah, her "do you miss me" is literal "can I be mad at you when I don't feel better, while you are responsible to make me fell better".

That gently puts the responsibility back in her lap. You're not declining to converse about it, but you're also not accepting that dropping everything and having the "do you miss me" conversation right now (to assuage her feelings) is OK.

But I have to, at the very least, to ease her emotional tension. *Something* from her worry has to be put at ease. And what *something* is, I don't even know. It changes, depending on how disturbed or insecure she feels at that specific time. But any kind of escape will just prolong the suffering.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Can you please explain what is parental alienation? In which sense? Don't all (healthy) divorced couples experience some degree of "alienation"? Or I missed the point?

No you are right, but like you said, there is a degree to it. PwBPD have a hard time self-regulating and have the emotional tools of a child. It would depend where your BPD partner is on the BPD spectrum, but basically, separated or not, triangulation and parental alienation will happen, and with pwBPD will be exacerbated.

Seeing the level at which my BPD mother still hate my father, I personnaly think healthy adults have a better shot at co-parenting in a friendlier manner over time? With BPD, there is a real grudge that just seems to linger and real forgiveness seems unattainable. The children become a constant reminder of the separation, which is felt like an abandonment, and so the pwBPD has a hard time moving on from the relationship if and when it ends.

You could be the nicest person on earth, a saint to her, she will still blame you for her pain and will, over time, let your children know about her feelings and everything you did wrong. You could be perfect, it wouldn't change anything. She is a child and she will at some point request your children to caretake her. I don't see any way around it unless she attends therapy.

So considering this : why not just state the truth, see what happens. Be true to yourself and what you feel, and let her self-soothe.

You don't have to miss her. And I personally don't agree that you have to answer those questions with silk gloves. You could also simply say: "I hear your question but have no answer for you right now." And when she dysregulates, exit the conversation until she calms down.

[kells76]

Over the years I think I tried everything. Changing subjects gently, let's talk another day, humour, our cats, look at the weather, let's talk with our MC, let's watch film together, let's go somewhere, you name it - I probably tried. She returns the topic every.single.time. No exception. Sometimes I think other topics and small talk exist just so she can bring that "hot" issue she faces, not other way around.

The more I linger, the more she is fixated on issue and the more I annoy her. She senses that I'm escaping the question. She's incredibly intelligent too. The only thing that can distract her or make her ease the tension are other people that can pop out of nowhere. For example, our neighbour on the door. One time was even the pizza guy. He literally saved me from the upcoming misery. He cut the cord by just briefly interacting with her. Nothing else. But alas, I cannot order pizza every time I'm facing those questions.

Right, I get it that you can't hope for a third party to show up every time things go that direction!

Glad you could fill out the picture some more: am I tracking with you that basically no matter what you say or do or don't say or don't do, she returns to the question (of "do you miss me, do you love me, what do you think about us" etc)?

And that the more you spend time focusing on the issue/question with her, the more fixated on it she gets? I.e., giving the question attention doesn't actually answer what seems to be the question?

Yeah, exactly. That's what I called an invitation to party I don't want to go.

Good insight. Sounds like you're starting to see how she invites you to participate in conflict/circularity/etc. You can identify that you don't want to. So there's a choice to be made.

This seems really important:

But I have to, at the very least, to ease her emotional tension. *Something* from her worry has to be put at ease. And what *something* is, I don't even know. It changes, depending on how disturbed or insecure she feels at that specific time.

How it's been framed to you in the past, whether verbally/explicitly, or nonverbally/implicitly, is:

Easing her emotional tension is your responsibility.

As you see what you wrote, and you see it written like I did above, what do you think? Do you think that's true, false, accurate, inaccurate, realistic, other?

[Ergonomics]

My partner said a lot of the same things when we were in the dips. How I come to understand this is that we need to really look at the thing behind the thing.

It's not that she is trying to tell you to tell her how much you love her.

She is trying to perhaps tell you that she doesn't feel loved, and she is feeling a bit insecure about that.

At least that was what happened in my case.

So I took this and started to have lots more conversations with my wife about what he love language is, what she likes and appreciates about the love I provide, and encouraging her to share the moments when I FEEL like I am giving and showing love, and may not be taken by her in the same way.

I discovered a lot of moments when I THOUGHT i was showing love, but was actually showing some love that she neither wanted nor needed.

I found many ways where I was showing love in the wrong ways.

And I found many blind spots and missed-opportunities of how I could show the right love, at the right time, etc...

This has been game-changing for us!

[Manic Miner]

Glad you could fill out the picture some more: am I tracking with you that basically no matter what you say or do or don't say or don't do, she returns to the question (of "do you miss me, do you love me, what do you think about us" etc)? And that the more you spend time focusing on the issue/question with her, the more fixated on it she gets? I.e., giving the question attention doesn't actually answer what seems to be the question?

Actually it's both. If I try to stay away from the question, she becomes increasingly frustrated/annoyed and always tries to bring it to the surface.
But once we do start talking about it, she seems more needy and frustrated if I don't say it right or offer something to ease her pain/sadness/discomfort/etc.

Which comes to the following:

How it's been framed to you in the past, whether verbally/explicitly, or nonverbally/implicitly, is:
Easing her emotional tension is your responsibility.

Yes.

It really comes to the previous point you made: will you take responsibility for making me feel better, and can I be mad at you when I don't feel better?

That is the key. We can fiddle with this sentence in many ways, like you have to make me feel better when I'm feeling hurt and if not, you don't love me or care about me and we are heading divorce, but the essence stays the same.

It was always my responsibility in some way and at this stage, I'm not sure she is capable of resolving this herself in a healthy way. Her way is destructive one - divorce, avoidance, when we meet for our D, she looks hurt, annoyed, sad, distant, angry, communication is bad, etc.

She lacks the capacity of any insight, like - this man said to me something really nice/uplifting few days ago, we reached some point. He was there for me when I needed him. I will not be suspicious or angry next time we meet and will have this in the back of my mind, even if my fears start rising at the moment. The reality for her is current mood = real mood. There's a constant need of validation.

We can also put this in another perspective - when she feels nice, calm and loved, how that goes? Technically, it's similar.
When she feels loved, she is more caring, with higher empathy, more listening. She likes to show that in a good way, like being around me more and super nice. This is also a time that she asks me all those questions again, but in a more subtle way, more open and cuddly.

But make no mistake, her radars that she will be let down are vigilant as ever. She will start using push-pull dynamics again, if anything to try feel better, reduce her stress and cope with fears. That will effectively make me frustrated. I will think that we have reached some conclusions, agreements then notice that we actually didn't. Every day there will be the same questions for various topics and issues. I will think she will be there for me, but actually she won't due to preoccupation with herself and her needs. I will be there for her. Eventually, I will do *something* that will make her off the rails. Something to let her down. And off we'll go to that vicious cycle.

[Cat Familiar]

People with BPD have a bottomless pit of needs for approval and validation. Just because you can successfully fill that need at times, doesn’t mean that it will last, as you’ve pointed out.

How can we balance not becoming an endless source of validation without enabling them to not learn self soothing strategies?

I think when we begin to feel resentment, that is our clue that we’ve been overworked trying to support our partner’s fragile emotional balance. Perhaps that is time to back off and let them self soothe.

Self soothing is a fraught topic. If healthy strategies are not learned in childhood, there are a lot of undesirable ways to try to self soothe—through substance abuse, addictive behavior, or even constantly turning to others seeking approval and reassurance, rather than looking within.

But it seems that there is no way to become emotionally healthy unless one can provide warmth, approval, and reassurance to one’s own self.

[waverider]

You are not the sanitary pipe connected to her emotional toilet bowl. As long as you stay connected she is going to keep flushing. She is just checking the connection is still there for when the need arises. If the toilet no longer works then she has to fix it, or find an alternative way to dispose of her emotional dramas, and not rely on you to keep it connected and taking it away.

Note in her questions she is fishing for reassurances abut her needs. Reply in regards to how your needs are now being met rather than tiptoeing around trying to placate her needs without feeling like you are doing it. You are just kidding yourself by trying to be diplomatic and flying close to selling yourself out again. You need a moat not a fuzzy diplomatic line separating the two needs. You are dealing with an accomplished boundary line breaker

[Ergonomics]

Seems like she may be giving you subtle signs of what she feels she lacks in the relationship and opening the door for a conversation about it.

I heard very similar things - my partner, in the past, would ask me a bunch of seemingly needy questions like this, and then use it to make suggestions that seemed a bit unrealistic...

But it turns out that she was just feeling very unloved because the forms of love that I thought I was providing was not what she wanted or needed. It also turns out that what she asked for wasn't really what she wanted.

There's always a deeper thing behind the thing!

Now, I love it when she asks me these questions - this is my cue to learn more about her and strengthen the bond (instead of seeing it as a threat like I did before).

Hope this perspective shift helps!

[Manic Miner]

Seems like she may be giving you subtle signs of what she feels she lacks in the relationship and opening the door for a conversation about it.

But it turns out that she was just feeling very unloved because the forms of love that I thought I was providing was not what she wanted or needed. It also turns out that what she asked for wasn't really what she wanted.

There's always a deeper thing behind the thing! Now, I love it when she asks me these questions - this is my cue to learn more about her and strengthen the bond (instead of seeing it as a threat like I did before).

Hope this perspective shift helps!

I'm not sure I follow you actually. As you said:

she was just feeling very unloved because the forms of love that I thought I was providing was not what she wanted or needed. It also turns out that what she asked for wasn't really what she wanted.

I mean, for me at least, that sounds like you're bending backwards to cater her needs, while she doesn't even know what she wants.

And alright, suppose that works for you. But are you sure that's here to stay? Is that future proof? What about tomorrow? What about time when you will need some help, have a bad day, be bad with words, frustrated, sick...? Will she be there for you and understand you? Or turn sour and here we go again.
I'm happy if that's really working for you and you found a sweet spot and your magic card.

[kells76]

What would happen if you decided to (not in a mean way, and not "announcing it" to her) decline taking responsibility for easing her emotional tension?

What would be the worst thing?

[I Am Redeemed]

You are living separately at the moment? And this is giving you some space from her, which it sounds like you welcome.

It sounds like she is fishing to see if you are miserable without her and you know that to say "yes" would be a lie. To say "no" might send her into a tailspin.

It might be time to be not necessarily brutally honest, but give a dose of truth kindly:

"I'm grateful that I have this time to work on myself."

"I'm taking one day at a time."

"I'm focusing on self care right now."

"I'm just not up for this kind of discussion at the moment."

If you are in limbo, as you say, and you aren't sure of how you feel towards the relationship and it's future, then leading her on just to soothe her anxiety in the short term is only going to cause more hurt later if you decide you don't want to reconcile.

These may not be the things she wants to hear, but it is better than saying what you don't sincerely mean in order to keep her from feeling distress