They really don't have a clue how they impact their NON partners?

[Buddy Joe]

Currently chatting with my pwBPD girlfriend and she's telling me what kind of a person I've become. I totally lost control of myself and my values when I started dating her and her outbursts/episodes started to show. I don't even know myself anymore. I never wanted to be in a relationship with a lot of belittling, shouting, cussing, breaking things, and to be embarrassed publicly. These things trigger me the most.

Have you ever tried your best to maintain your composure but he/she would do their best to drill you down until you lose control? And when you do, they will use that against you but will never acknowledge that they took part in it? When you even dare try to tell him/her that you forced that reaction out of me and that was unlike me to act that way. She would feel blamed, ashamed and then retaliate. I don't know how to validate her points when they are overbearing.

I feel so f***ing pissed.

What do I do with this? I really want us to work out but... I don't know anymore.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Manic Miner]

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

I didn't know I had hidden depths of my own emptiness, until my W started poking them out. To this day I never had worse fights and heard worse kind of insults from anyone than coming from my W. Times when I wanted to 'return a favour', playing on her ground and acting like she did. Never again.

You cannot do anything there - anything meaning, what you would like to do. To reason, explain, be understood, share responsibilities and apologies.

The best thing you can do is to learn to not take it personal, stop adding to the fire, accept this as it is, learn tools to mitigate the anger, ease the triggers and see from there. Can you tolerate this, even in this new shape and form or no?

It will be easier once the above is done on your side. But there is likelihood that this won't entirely prevent it from ever happening again, esp. if she is really disordered and not just with a few bpd traits.

[Buddy Joe]

I didn't know I had hidden depths of my own emptiness, until my W started poking them out. To this day I never had worse fights and heard worse kind of insults from anyone than coming from my W. Times when I wanted to 'return a favour', playing on her ground and acting like she did. Never again.

Hi, Manic Miner! I appreciate you replying to my post and sharing my pain. I honestly feel the same way. This is by far the hardest relationship I've ever been in and I am learning to just shrug it off and not take it personally to maintain the peace. I've treated my pwBPD girlfriend like a normal person when we would argue and we just end up fighting more. I never understood why it was like that up until I really researched about it. It was too late because a lot of damage has been done. When I would retaliate and treat her the way she treated me, she would use it against me. I thought it could be one way for her to see how she was treating me. But that was one hell of a mistake.

It will be easier once the above is done on your side. But there is likelihood that this won't entirely prevent it from ever happening again, esp. if she is really disordered and not just with a few bpd traits.

She refers to herself as a disturbed person and after her diagnosis, her closest friends told her how proud they were that she was able to overcome her unexplained/impulsive/promiscuous behaviors in the past. That's why my girlfriend would tell me I had her at her best and it saddens her to see that despite her growth she is still destroying me. That's why she wants to break up with me. The ounce of respect left in the relationship she wanted to preserve to at least stay friends after the relationship.

[Notwendy]

I wonder about that.

One aspect at play, if they have some awareness, is the Karpman triangle dynamics. From my observation, my BPD mother sees herself in victim mode. The benefit of victim perspective is that a victim is not accountable. This avoids shame. The other person is either in rescuer role, or persecutor. Someone in victim mode would attack a persecutor- without it being wrong or blamed for it.

The other is that, when my BPD mother dissociates  (she is severely BPD)- the rages seem to take over her thinking.  Once it is over, I don't think she has recollection of what she said or did during these times.

She also has a way to re-write history. She will report something in a different way.

Projection and denial are strong defense mechanism. Being accountable involves shame and shame is very difficult to manage.

My BPD mother can be  verbally and emotionally abusive. Although we have remained in contact, it's been a natural response on my part to have some boundaries on this and also to protect my children from this by supervising visits. The grandchildren are grown now.

She doesn't seem to make a connection between how she treats me and why I need to have some boundaries. If she does, she'd not acknowledge it. I don't want to even have a discussion- her response is to feel hurt, dissociate, and say hurtful things back. I don't want to do or say anything to hurt her and know she'd take it that way.

There have been a few times I have "lost it" with her and yelled at her, but I try not to as it doesn't accomplish anything.

The problem is that without being able to discuss disagreements, there doesn't seem to be a way to repair the relationship in a way that has resolution. Everyone has disagreements with people we are close to. No two people are alike and we are going to see things differently or make a mistake. The reason we bring these issues up is because we care about the other person and hope it leads to resolution. With my mother, bringing something up leads to her feeling hurt and attacked. She then "fights back" and so to do so leaves both people feeling worse.

BPD is on a spectrum so it is possible to do this sometimes, and also if the person is less affected - but only when the person is calm and also - whatever they say back - do not respond to it. When they hear "you made a mistake" to them it's "you are a mistake" and they retaliate. Expect this "fighting back" and don't take it personally. If they can't handle their own emotions, adding yours is only adding to the drama. State your concern, calmly. If there's a stormy reply- don't take it personally. I have occasionally been able to "get through" to my mother but what has been more effective is boundaries- don't participate in emotional discussions, don't JADE, don't add to the drama.

As to staying with someone for the long term- that's a personal choice and since BPD is on a spectrum and relationships are different, there isn't one way to decide. We don't have the abililty to change how someone else feels but we can decide how to react to them.

[Notwendy]

That's why she wants to break up with me. The ounce of respect left in the relationship she wanted to preserve to at least stay friends after the relationship.

While we don't post messages to stay or leave, if the other person wants to leave, there's no control over that. It's her choice if she does.

That may be hard to know if it's something she says when she's upset but if she does want to leave, then it's on her to take those steps.

If this were to happen, be careful about the "staying friends" - these relationships tend to recycle. Staying friends might work for her but be difficult for you. Regardless of what she wants, you have your own choice of what works best for you.

[Manic Miner]

When I would retaliate and treat her the way she treated me, she would use it against me. I thought it could be one way for her to see how she was treating me. But that was one hell of a mistake.

I have done the same mistake like countless of times, thinking it would ring a bell. Like - what you did hurt a lot. You don't want to experience the same <shows her what's it like>, right? Well, 8 out of 10 that turned out to be even worse. That was before I knew I was dealing with BPD, but sensed that something wasn't 'normal'.

She refers to herself as a disturbed person and after her diagnosis, her closest friends told her how proud they were that she was able to overcome her unexplained/impulsive/promiscuous behaviors in the past. That's why my girlfriend would tell me I had her at her best and it saddens her to see that despite her growth she is still destroying me. That's why she wants to break up with me. The ounce of respect left in the relationship she wanted to preserve to at least stay friends after the relationship.

From my experience, time when they are conscious and open to admit that something is wrong with them, even if they don't know what it is - is far better ground than what comes next, when they are completely in denial. At least, an apology will mean a lot to you, if anything, to know that she is aware.

My W used to apologize and be super nice after her tantrums and insults. She used to say "omg I don't know what happened to me, I'm so sorry! Please forgive me". She rarely says that now. She can say she's sorry only if I stay completely calm and don't respond to anything that she can use against. And even after that simple 'sorry', I will need to hear why she reacted that way and what made her do it, making that 'sorry' hardly having a meaning anymore.

Generally, those days of self-acknowledging that she's off are long gone. Nowadays, for every one bad she does, there are at least 2 bads or more coming from my side (even though I don't respond anymore at all). She will use something I said last year, or year before that, just to ease her burden.

So what your GF is saying, maybe, just maybe, there's a hope to support her with therapy, if she is at least aware that she has issues. But as Notwendy said, if she's really about to leave, there's hardly a thing you can do.

[who_knows11]

Currently chatting with my pwBPD girlfriend and she's telling me what kind of a person I've become. I totally lost control of myself and my values when I started dating her and her outbursts/episodes started to show. I don't even know myself anymore. I never wanted to be in a relationship with a lot of belittling, shouting, cussing, breaking things, and to be embarrassed publicly. These things trigger me the most.

Have you ever tried your best to maintain your composure but he/she would do their best to drill you down until you lose control? And when you do, they will use that against you but will never acknowledge that they took part in it? When you even dare try to tell him/her that you forced that reaction out of me and that was unlike me to act that way. She would feel blamed, ashamed and then retaliate. I don't know how to validate her points when they are overbearing.

I feel so f***ing pissed.

What do I do with this? I really want us to work out but... I don't know anymore.

Man, I feel like you are telling my story for me so that I don't have to tell it myself I completely lost who I was over the first 8 years or so I was married to my wife.  It changed something in me.  When I started realizing it was happening and questioning some of it, she got worse.  What I was morphing into was a person that was molded to best "get along" with what she was doing.  I compromised values and personality in order to make things easier with her.  Internally I began to reject this before I even knew that compromise and change had happened.  I'm now completely resetting myself and she hates it.  I'm hoping it will pass for us but I'm not so certain

I'm not an emotional person and she can't stand it.  I almost always remain calm and composed.  Recently she got me to snap and that had some interesting interactions that went with it which I posted in my own thread a few days ago.  When I'm not reacting though she won't drop things.  She will question and question and question until I give just the slightest hint of a reaction and then she'll say "see, I knew there was something.  You just wont be honest about it."

I wish I had advice on what to do but I haven't figured it out yet myself.  Right now I'm just taking care of myself.  So I would say that is priority number one.  Make sure you don't compromise who you are and what you believe, unless you find something that YOU think you need to change. 

[Buddy Joe]

Man, I feel like you are telling my story for me so that I don't have to tell it myself I completely lost who I was over the first 8 years or so I was married to my wife.  It changed something in me.  When I started realizing it was happening and questioning some of it, she got worse.  What I was morphing into was a person that was molded to best "get along" with what she was doing.  I compromised values and personality in order to make things easier with her.  Internally I began to reject this before I even knew that compromise and change had happened.  I'm now completely resetting myself and she hates it.  I'm hoping it will pass for us but I'm not so certain

I'm doing the exact same thing!  I was compromising and adjusting to best not trigger her. Dude, I posted something related to that too. The moment I started loving myself more and saw things clearly, she began to resent me and told me I am a substandard lover. 

Here's my post: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354031.msg13180584#msg13180584

I'm not an emotional person and she can't stand it.  I almost always remain calm and composed.  Recently she got me to snap and that had some interesting interactions that went with it which I posted in my own thread a few days ago.  When I'm not reacting though she won't drop things.  She will question and question and question until I give just the slightest hint of a reaction and then she'll say "see, I knew there was something.  You just wont be honest about it."

I feel like I found a best bro here haha Do you mind sharing your post on this thread? I'd love to read it. Overall, I am also known as someone who is calm and collected but with this relationship I've never exploded up until my pwBPD nags me until she gets a reaction from me.

I wish I had advice on what to do but I haven't figured it out yet myself.  Right now I'm just taking care of myself.  So I would say that is priority number one.  Make sure you don't compromise who you are and what you believe, unless you find something that YOU think you need to change. 

It pays to be mindful as much as possible if not all the time. I used to treat my girlfriend like a normal person, which led to longer and harsher arguments. I sometimes think like I am with an immature partner who's emotional stability and reasoning is like that of a kid. You really need more patience and stand your ground. Don't agree to everything they say but validate feelings and agree to statements that you can relate to. I try my best to soothe her emotions and acknowledge her feelings first before I say anything else. This is why we walk on eggshells. We really have to think things through before saying or doing anything. Any misstep can lead to a number of disagreements and fights.

[waverider]

Victimhood is their protective armour they need to hide behind when they are feeling insecure or threatened. To be a victim you need a perpetrator. You are the nearest and they know your triggers, so it's you. They trigger you mainly to activate their armour by validating their status as a victim. If you try to argue it out or avoid being blamed you are denying it. If you are denying their needs this further validates you as being a "bully". Things escalate. It becomes like throwing rocks at an avalanche where words come randomly tumbling down on your  head. Anything you say is just turned around and adds weight.

The words, reasoning and even subject are irrelevant, and hence you cant defend against them. Its the flushing out of BPD emotions.

As far as apologies afterwards, in my case anyway, I see these not as "oh my god what have I done, i feel bad, I will not do that again" rather I see it as "tell me its ok and its not my fault I acted that way, and everything is ok and you are not blaming me"...In other words the apology is not about me and my feelings it is about seeking absolution. If I continue to feel hurt them I am being childish and holding grudges. Meanwhile my wife has simply filed it away, not dealt with it, learned nothing, regrets nothing and the scene is set for a rinse repeat.

Of course you are glad the outburst is over and let them get away with not being accountable as you dont want to trigger it again, so you lock it inside you, maybe even withdrawing and taking on internal scarring. Simmering resentment builds

Only way I can find to stay out from under the avalanche is simply not to be there, for as long as it takes. I didnt sign up to be an emotional spew bag

[who_knows11]

I feel like I found a best bro here haha Do you mind sharing your post on this thread? I'd love to read it. Overall, I am also known as someone who is calm and collected but with this relationship I've never exploded up until my pwBPD nags me until she gets a reaction from me.

Yeah I'll post it here.  Seems like we are both fighting the same things.  You mentioned that she makes it out that you are always supposed to put her needs first, I have no problem with doing that.  It's when I'm made to compromise my values in order to do so that the issue arises for me.  My personal family is where most of the impact happened for me.  I distanced from them far too much in order to try and keep her happy.  I didn't realize it for a long time.  I thought I was just doing what I needed to do in order to take care of her.  Being with my family was always a big trigger for her.  Not necessarily in one particular way but we usually ended up fighting about something over it.  So it became easier for me to make an excuse to not show up.  It probably had to do with nothing more than the fact that when we were with my family she was not the center of my focus for that time period.  To top it all off, she would use the line "you're not even close with your own family" to try and prove what she was saying were my "problems" even she was the reason I chose not to be around them as much.  Thankfully I finally drew a line there. 


https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354107.0