Another vacation completely ruined

[snowglobe]

Bpd comorbid with bipolar two is making the grand entrance yet again.Our couple friends invited us on an intimate vacation adventure for a week. Prior to the departure and upon the arrival my husband was highly irritable, with high sexual libido and narcissistic traits. He was also looking and making inappropriate compliments to the other female present. I lasted several days. On one hand all compliments and attention was going to the other female present, on the other hand I was dealing with his  insatiable need for physical intimacy that came out of nowhere several times a day. Mechanical and lacking any emotional connected I felt like an adult star on the movie set. Once done, he was making crude remarks about imperfections of my body and how I need to be more physically appealing and not smarter. Yesterday, after 3 days long endurance I blew up. When he approached me “come to me” I unleashed all the suppressed feelings. Big mistake. He hasn’t spoken to me since, the switch was tuned on. He doesn’t leave the bedroom and it took me 1.5 hrs to convince him to take his ssri. He sulks, does silent treatment and tells me he will be punishing me for the rest of the vacation and some more. Our friends are disappointed and confused. I feel embarrassed and gaslighted. His behaviour was all over the place, especially inappropriate attention paid to another woman. It left me feeling inadequate and lesser then. I felt used like a rug doll to fulfill some sort of role. I feel dazed and disoriented. This was supposed to be a breather between difficult months.

[BigOof]

This is intermittent reinforcement.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/this-powerful-manipulation-method-keeps-you-bonded-to-your-abuser/

[snowglobe]

This is intermittent reinforcement.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/this-powerful-manipulation-method-keeps-you-bonded-to-your-abuser/

Thank you for the source, I found it interesting

[Notwendy]

Snowglobe- unfortunately, this is how your H relates. I think a goal for him may be the blow up. When you unleash your feelings, he does too. It's a way to manage uncomfortable emotions. It's also part of the abuse cycle.

Being hypersexual is a known part of bipolar. But you also don't want to be treated like a s*x worker. You were kind of in a tough situation, trying to avoid a scene when on vacation with other people. Looks like he embarrassed himself in front of your friends. That's on him.

So, he's sulking in the bedroom. That's on him too. He's a grown man, let him be.

[babyducks]

snowglobe,

I'm sorry you are going through this.   I am sure this is difficult to experience.    I would suspect that your husband's behavior is generating a lot of very intense emotions.   I'm sure you are upset and angry and you have every right to be.

I also know that you understand the deep and complex issues that drive your husband and your own reactions.

I would like to compassionately suggest that you focus on yourself right now.   Not in a punitive way or a punishing way.   Not to suggest that you didn't do the right things or are experiencing this incorrectly.  More to point out that you deserve loving care, and you are the person who can provide it to yourself.

make sense?

Our couple friends invited us on an intimate vacation adventure for a week.

I'm not sure what an 'intimate vacation adventure' is but to me, it sounds like it could be vastly triggering to someone who presents the way your husband does.    Since your husband has strong components of mania and narcissism in his familiar and home environment, I am wondering if being out of his comfortable/regular environment has made those traits much more pronounced.     What's you're thinking about that?

on the other hand I was dealing with his  insatiable need for physical intimacy that came out of nowhere several times a day. Mechanical and lacking any emotional connected I felt like an adult star on the movie set. Once done, he was making crude remarks about imperfections of my body and how I need to be more physically appealing and not smarter.

that's tough to read.   had to be tougher to live through.   What I would like to suggest is you make a deliberate effort to move out of your emotional mind and into your wise mind.   To process and manage your own emotions by standing a little bit distant from them as you work to understand them.

do you think that is possible right now?

I've been reading Dr. Nicole LePera lately.   She resonates quite deeply with me.   She talks about people who experienced trauma and how we learned to cope.

Fawning is a trauma response where we people please to avoid conflict, abandonment, or rejection.

When we fawn, we are trying to stay safe.

Many of us grew up in unsafe or unpredictable homes where we had to appease others.

Fawning is a trauma response.    It sounds like when the pressure grew to great your response switched from Fawning to Fight.    Is that a fair assessment?

Dr. Nicole LePera also said this, just yesterday as luck would have it.

We learned it was easier to “go along with” things even if they were hurtful or we didn’t want to do them.

Fawning also allows us to be liked— we seem easy, agreeable, & “low maintenance.

The issue with fawning is that when this is a pattern in our life we are more concerned with other people’s feelings than our own.

Our need for approval & our need to stay safe (chosen) by people can cause us to abandon our own needs.

If I asked you what your needs are today, what would you need to feel safe and comfortable?  how would you describe it to me?

  He doesn’t leave the bedroom and it took me 1.5 hrs to convince him to take his ssri.

Dr. LePera again:

If you have a habit of fawning, it’s important to learn to say “no.” It’s important to understand you can have boundaries & limits.

It’s important to know the need to be liked doesn’t (and shouldn’t) require you to betray yourself.

Well, she nailed that didn't she?    I would suggest that spending 1.5 hours getting him to take his medication is fawning.    I'm in agreement with NotWendy, he is a grown man, allowing him to experience the consequences of his own actions, and make his own decisions is reasonable here.

I feel dazed and disoriented.

Is it possible that you are dazed and disoriented because you are deep in your own trauma response?   It would seem natural to me that you would be.    I am always surprised by how little it takes to tip me into my own trauma response which is more Freeze/Flight.

Again I am in agreement with NotWendy.   This is how your Husband relates.  There is very little you can do about it, other than change how you manage your own emotions, needs, and limitations.     Part of managing yourself is understanding what patterns you have that 'fit' with his, that allow this downward spiral to continue from before the trip departure until you 'blow up'.

'ducks

[ForeverDad]

I think a goal for him may be the blow up. When you unleash your feelings, he does too. It's a way to manage uncomfortable emotions. It's also part of the abuse cycle.

One time I did raise my voice and my then-spouse smirked at me as though, "Aha! I got to you!"

Being hypersexual is a known part of bipolar. But you also don't want to be treated like a s*x worker.

Once my ex started down her overt acting-out PD path, which ramped up after our son was born, she became hyposexual, if that's the word.  So I experienced the reverse.

This reminded me that my ex, in the final couple years, would give hints in the morning that later at night she'd be willing.  But during that day or evening she was sure to find something to get upset about or do something that ruined the mood for me, so no fun that day.  And in the final months she exclaimed, "I feel like a prostitute, I ought to get paid!"  I didn't reply verbally but told myself, "Well, you sure wouldn't earn much..."

[Notwendy]

One time I did raise my voice and my then-spouse smirked at me as though, "Aha! I got to you!"

Yes my BPD mother does this- she has a smirky "gotcha" smile.

[snowglobe]

Hello Everyone,
Thank you for replying back to my post with supportive messages and explanations of the behaviour. Like many of you mentioned- hyper sexuality is a marker of the mania state, unfortunately with it comes irritability and taking on other risks. I have been deep in my own trauma response, again as you noted. I must have been frightening as a child, for me to be growing up in similar unpredicted environment. Some of the trauma is marked by persistent intrusive thoughts. The other part is completely blank. Period. I have no recollection of long parts of my childhood. When I come to remember some of it, I get extremely uncomfortable and distract myself with other thoughts. My husbands behaviour is affecting me similarly. After taking prescription stimulant his mood changed 180, he is back to his chatty self and enjoys what is left of the vacation time. Sharing this trauma with others  is humiliating for me and forever “records” the episode on communal consciousness.

[Notwendy]

I can relate. Sometimes I feel a mix of emotions when posting- not comfortable ones. I also tend to forget past memories as a way of coping. But I also believe in processing them as a way to move forward. Hope posting helps in the long run even if it feels difficult.

[ForeverDad]

I have been deep in my own trauma response, again as you noted... The other part is completely blank. Period. I have no recollection of long parts of my childhood. When I come to remember some of it, I get extremely uncomfortable and distract myself with other thoughts.

I too find that I have holes in my young memories.  My younger sister that is close to my age said my task was to forget, her task was to remember.  Apparently that was how I coped with my stresses.  Her stories resonate with me but I just don't remember.  Almost but not quite.

I did some therapy similar to EMDR and I recalled that in 5th grade I asked my mother to put mayonnaise on rye bread for lunch.  Just that.  Evidently it was my hope that those sandwiches would fix my life.  Then the next year I stopped because it didn't help.

In my youth I had an aptitude for patterns and an endless curiosity in science and physics, even math.  That's why I enjoyed so much being a computer programmer and was like a detective in my amateur genealogical researches.  Yet with my years here, more than most, I also sense I would have enjoyed — perhaps inadequately and with more logic than feeling — being a counselor... sharing, encouraging and supporting.

[Notwendy]

I have the memory "holes" too. My sibling remembers everything. I was surprised to realize just how much I don't recall, while also having detailed memories of some things.

I think we do tend to re-enact family dysfunction with romantic partners and that is a big motivator to work on our selves. From what you have posted about your mother, Snowglobe- she was more than difficult and since you met your H so young, I think this had a part in it. I know it's hard. You are a capable adult now, and now have a better understanding of things. Be good to yourself.

[PearlsBefore]

Just bear in mind there is a very high correlation between BPD and molestation in early childhood by a close family figure - we can argue whether correlation means causation, whether some of them are false accusations made in adulthood, but the groundwork is there.

That means he's likely got a mixture of really weird sexual ideas floating in his head, some of which he may not even share with you - I suspect it's the BPD not the bipolar that's driving this kind of behavior. Were I being charitable, "he doesn't know better - he's just messed up since he was young and acting out his inner demons now".  But I stopped being charitable more recently, so ya know.

[ForeverDad]

Disclaimer:  Below is my impression or conclusion after years pondering things.  Others may come to other conclusions.

Apparently a lot more people than we realize suffered abuse in childhood, or events that registered as abuse or similar damage impact.  So there are a lot of abused or damaged people among us and in our lives, whether remembered or not, besides those with genetic propensities, etc.

However, and this is a big however, not all such persons (victims) become BPD or some other PD.  Everyone has been impacted to different degrees.  Some are more or less "acting in" (hurting themselves more than others) while others are "acting out" (hurting others more).  In whatever way it happens, whether consciously or unconsciously, the victims end up with the decision (or better said, path?) to where the direction of their lives lead, somewhere on a broad and diverse spectrum between victims on the one end to abusers on the other end.

So this is how two people, siblings in the same family and with similar childhood experiences, can end up, one with acting-out (hurtful) behaviors and the other with acting-in (relatively normal social) behaviors.

[Manic Miner]

Well, if he is bipolar, is he treated? There are meds and psy help for that - it's still a major issue, but manageable.

My friend was diagnosed bipolar for more than 2 decades now. She was high on all sorts of meds, making my head spin when she talked about all kind of pills she needed to take. Eventually, she worked with her psychiatrist and now she takes the smallest doses possible to maintain her condition. She's a success, she has never been more clearer in communication, without depression in sight.

But in a way, you cannot blame your husband or expect him to be normal if he is mentally ill. We can't do that for BPD, let alone bipolar. You and your friends should know that.

If he rejects treatment, that's another issue - mostly dealing how will you cope with that and what do you plan to do in the future.

[babyducks]

Well, if he is bipolar, is he treated? There are meds and psy help for that - it's still a major issue, but manageable.

Just a small cautionary note here, not every bipolar responds equally well to medication and treatment.    like most illnesses, there is a range of severity and response.   my Ex was bipolar 1 and while compliant with medication, couldn't tolerate the most effective drugs for the condition.   those drugs are processed through the kidneys and she couldn't stay on them.     as snowglobe says upstream her husband is bipolar 2 and not terribly compliant with medication.  even on medication my Ex had major breaks about 3 times a year.   roughly.

Apparently a lot more people than we realize suffered abuse in childhood, or events that registered as abuse or similar damage impact.  So there are a lot of abused or damaged people among us and in our lives, whether remembered or not, besides those with genetic propensities, etc.

Overall, I would agree.    I think all of us, every one of us, experiences trauma at some point in our lives.   I would hypothesize that very complex variables are in play about how we are impacted by those traumas.   Our ability to control those variables appears small.

Sharing this trauma with others  is humiliating for me and forever “records” the episode on communal consciousness.

I understand.   for me, my experience is that sharing trauma related thoughts or actions is shameful.   there is a strong idea that 'hiding the hurt' is important, even necessary for survival.

I have been deep in my own trauma response, again as you noted. I must have been frightening as a child, for me to be growing up in similar unpredicted environment. Some of the trauma is marked by persistent intrusive thoughts.

this is a good insight snowglobe.   very good.   my experience is that trauma is like air trapped way under the surface of a deep lake.   sometimes a few air bubbles rise to the surface and cause nary a ripple.    sometimes a huge pocket of air is displaced and roils the surface for quite a while.   for me, it's a very physical experience.

how are you doing today?   any thoughts of how your insight might impact your actions moving forward?

'ducks