Really do not understand what goes through a BPD mind

[zanyapple]

My mother (uBPD) and dad are visiting soon. As mentioned in a previous post, they live overseas and I know my kiddo is excited to see them.

I'm paying for their flights and hotel. This is around Christmas time so that makes everything even MORE expensive. For a portion of their stay, they are staying at a hotel. I was thinking that they can stay with me a week before they leave solely to save on $$$. Flights I paid for were already $2,300, plus, I've to pay for the meals, activities, etc. when they get here.

However, I still have a lot of hesitation on my part because I really cannot stand my mother's weirdness. Just completely weird. So every time she calls people and they don't respond immediately (and I mean immediately), her mind goes to weird places. For example, recently, my aunt didn't respond to her call right away, so she immediately accused her of getting mad at her for no reason. Turns out, my aunt was actually on vacation in Vietnam with her husband so she had limited network. When my mom learned about this, it was almost like nothing happened, like all those accusations about my aunt she spoke to me about never happened. Shouldn't she be embarrassed or at the very least say that she was wrong?

The other day, I was getting my kid down for bed, so I could not respond to her right away because my phone was not with me. When I checked my phone, I had 9 missed calls with a text message that said, "Are you and your husband fighting because you don't want us to come? It's ok, honey, we don't have to come visit you."

It's one of things where anyone would be like WT F? (Apologies for the language, but there is no word in the dictionary that best describes how insanely weird this is) Because it's just soo inexplicable. This never even crossed my mind nor does my husband care nor was there anything close to this that ever happened. Where did this even come from? It's complete insanity to me.

Is this even just BPD? It seems like this is total insanity where people imagine things that never happened - and she believes it to be true too because she almost freaked out with those 9 missed calls like it was some sort of emergency.

What exactly goes through a BPD mind? Every time something like this happens, can't they just tell themselves, "I know this isn't true and there was nothing that indicated that this has ever happened, so I should stop." Going back to that incident with my aunt, my mom clearly knew that she was in the wrong afterwards, so can't she just use that as an example? There had been many more incidents like that, so hasn't she learned anything at this point?

At this point, I'm going to just book them a hotel for the entire duration of their stay. Her insanity is only going to trigger me and it will ruin our vacation. It's going to be a lot of money, but my mental health is more important. Furthermore, I don't want to expose my kid to that. When we're out and about, I know this will take her mind off things and she won't be crazy. Honestly, it's a lot of money, but I can just replenish that. She triggers me so much and my mental health is important. It's really insane to me. She should almost be in a straight jacket.

[RisingAboveAll]

Booking a hotel for the whole time sounds like an excellent idea and a way to give yourself time to process whatever weird reactions she has to you during the day.

[zanyapple]

Booking a hotel for the whole time sounds like an excellent idea and a way to give yourself time to process whatever weird reactions she has to you during the day.

Thank you! Yes, that's a good idea! Can you help explain to me what's on BPD minds? What's on her mind? It's really inexplicable to me. It's just so weird that I'm more likely to believe that aliens exist.

[RisingAboveAll]

I think it’s that the amygdala is super overactive with a perception of threat and fears of abandonment. She interprets any time she doesn’t get an immediate response as a total abandonment and then had to do or say something provoking and dramatic to get re-engagement. There is also a feeling of being victimized by the world and all other people. Those two things work hand in hand. She can’t help it; her brain can’t hold the ambiguity of “they are there but not thinking about me at this moment.” If you’re not thinking about her, she feels she does not exist.

[zanyapple]

Update: Mother went from just being ok staying in a hotel to "You're not letting us stay at your place because I am unwanted." Oh well, time to cancel the flights I guess.

[Couscous]

Update: Mother went from just being ok staying in a hotel to "You're not letting us stay at your place because I am unwanted." Oh well, time to cancel the flights I guess.

This is something that even parents without BPD would struggle with. I am amazed that you mother was able to even be “just OK” with it. Most BPD mothers would throw an absolute fit over something like this and even sever ties.

[zanyapple]

This is something that even parents without BPD would struggle with. I am amazed that you mother was able to even be “just OK” with it. Most BPD mothers would throw an absolute fit over something like this and even sever ties.

Is that a cultural thing? I noticed that here in the US, it's quite acceptable. My American in-laws never stay with us knowing there isn't a guest room. In many Asian cultures, it is not acceptable because family members would even repurpose the living room and turn it into a guest room.

[Couscous]

It’s an enmeshed family thing. I’m in the US.

[beatricex]

Hi zanyapple,
People with BPD struggle with object constancy. 

Example of normal:  you love your spouse.  They wake up, get ready and goto work everyday.  While at work, they remember you love them.  If you don't check in, they know when they come home from work you'll reach out, give them a hug, tell them you missed them, it's all good.  People get busy, they forget to check in sometimes.

Abnormal:  when not physically in their presence, a person with BPD doesn't know you love them.  They need the constant texting, the reinforcement.  They need a "person."  They seek reinforcement, and can cling or appear overly needy.  A lot of fights with BPDs tend to be about 1) not giving them their space when they do want it - my BPD mom used to make my Dad take all the kids somewhere, so she could get a break from us 2) giving them too much space, such that they feel abandoned (my Dad could never travel for work, even though financially it would have benefited our family).

If you have a person with object constancy issues, it helps to plan for when you'll be away.  Like, you can leave them a little gift, or cook them a special meal.  When you do leave, they remember you love them because you've left them that special token. 

In your case, I guess you'd have had to plan for their neediness once flights and arrangements started.  Dropping reminders every day, for instance.  Proactively texting "10 more days til you get here, I can't wait!"  "9 more days..." etc etc.  There is a formula, I think.  You'd have to remind them that you are still there, and still reachable, and use empathy...to avoid their feeling abandoned.  With a BPD you have to empathize first.  Proactively.

b

[zanyapple]

@beatricx Thank you for your thoughtful response. I don’t do any of that reassurance. I’ve experienced a lot of physical, emotional, and verbal abuse from my mother growing up, so I think that contributed to my personality - objective and a lot of times passive.

My husband did ask me why I can’t just “play along” by saying sweet nothings, but the thought of it makes me want to vomit. It doesn’t come naturally and it feels artificial. Paying for every single penny for this trip should be enough assurance in my eyes.

But I do understand your point. I just don’t think it’s something I can do even for the sake of keeping the peace because she still seems like a landmine regardless. Even if I did this, I know there’s always going to be something else.

[PearlsBefore]

I can't offer much that beatrice and Rising haven't already said, both seem to have some insight here. Fifteen years ago my dearest dBPD tried phoning and couldn't reach me so left a voicemail that was just hysterical screaming (we weren't having a fight or anything) and then the real kicker...left a second voicemail that began with a whimpering "the voicemail cut me off and wouldn't let me continue and I still had more to say" and then devolved back into scream-whining.

I can't explain it better than that, maybe it's not even funny to an outsider but my kid sister (who was living with us at the time) and I thought it was absolutely bonkers...what goes through somebody's mind that they feel like the voicemail machine is abandoning them...and calls back to continue non-verbal screaming?

Honestly I'd advise bringing them sometime other than holidays next year simply because in my experience BPDs go absolutely bonkers over holidays - the heightened expectations leads to heightened terror and panic and aggression.

[zanyapple]

Thanks for all your helpful responses!

Any tips on how not to get triggered?

Sometimes, uBPD’s mom’s texts to me are really not her trying to start a fight, but it’s to seek reassurance. This triggers me and I blow up on her, then she becomes defensive and combative.

I know I’m in control of my actions, but it’s easier said than done.

[zachira]

Zanyapple,
What you describe does sound like BPD. My mother with BPD is dead. It does take time to figure out what boundaries you need to set with your mother, and likely you will be setting more boundaries with your mother as time goes by as you figure out what helps you most to be able to tolerate your mother's behaviors. The Christmas plans sound like you will not be enjoying your time with your mother, as she makes more and more unreasonable demands. My mother always behaved better in front of people she wanted to look good in front of and was abusive when there were no witnesses around she cared about impressing. Is there any way to not be alone with your mother at Christmas or would that make any difference?

[zanyapple]

Zanyapple,
What you describe does sound like BPD. My mother with BPD is dead. It does take time to figure out what boundaries you need to set with your mother, and likely you will be setting more boundaries with your mother as time goes by as you figure out what helps you most to be able to tolerate your mother's behaviors. The Christmas plans sound like you will not be enjoying your time with your mother, as she makes more and more unreasonable demands. My mother always behaved better in front of people she wanted to look good in front of and was abusive when there were no witnesses around she cared about impressing. Is there any way to not be alone with your mother at Christmas or would that make any difference?

My husband will be around, she is more "tamed" with him around. The boundaries I'm setting is making them stay at a hotel and this is what she freaked out about. She said she feels "unwanted" not really thinking about the costs I've incurred and will be incurring for flights, hotels, food, activities, etc. She won't be paying a dime out of pocket. Why would I even pay that much for an "unwanted" guest? It's a lot of money and we're not wealthy. This trip takes a huge chunk from my savings.

Any tips on how you have managed? Sometimes, she does try to control herself, but often times, anything she says triggers me. I will literally blow up in her face with anything she says that has a hint of her neediness and clingyness. Not only because of the years of abuse, but also really because it's unreasonable behavior to me coming from an adult. The way she behaves feels like a clingy bf/gf from high school devoid of any sense of maturity.

This is literally her series of text messages to me that came with 9 missed calls:

How are you?
Calling
Where are you?
Please answer me. God bless.
Pls talk to me
One word only, ok? Pls?
I don't feel I could settle down if you don't pick up
Pls pick up just for a second
Did you fight with your husband?
It's ok if we don't visit you guys if we are the reason our visiting is the reason of you guys fighting to keep the peace

That series of message above is inexplicable to me. How can that even come from an adult? Let alone, a senior citizen who has supposed to have gained more wisdom at this point in their life.

[Notwendy]

That series of message above is inexplicable to me. How can that even come from an adult? Let alone, a senior citizen who has supposed to have gained more wisdom at this point in their life.


It's this assumption that confuses you. Those of us with elderly BPD mothers and who are dealing with trying to manage some aspect of their elder care while their thinking is irrational see that age and emotional maturity are two different things.

Somehow my BPD mother comes up with ideas like that- like my H and I must be on the rocks.

What I see here is your mother responding to the hotel request. In her mind, it can't be about her. You not wanting her close to you can not be about her. So it has to be something about you and so she comes up with that idea.

Blaming you is distressing to you but it's not about you. I'd suggest you don't react to it. If she thinks you are an elephant, that doesn't make you one, no matter what she thinks. Her thinking you have marital issues doesn't make it true. Don't JADE.

You could say "thanks mom, it's not a good time, let's try this again another time" She will want to know more- but you don't have to say more than "it's nothing for you to worry about mom, it's just not a good time- we can visit another time" and then disengage.

[zanyapple]

It's this assumption that confuses you. Those of us with elderly BPD mothers and who are dealing with trying to manage some aspect of their elder care while their thinking is irrational see that age and emotional maturity are two different things.

Somehow my BPD mother comes up with ideas like that- like my H and I must be on the rocks.

What I see here is your mother responding to the hotel request. In her mind, it can't be about her. You not wanting her close to you can not be about her. So it has to be something about you and so she comes up with that idea.

Blaming you is distressing to you but it's not about you. I'd suggest you don't react to it. If she thinks you are an elephant, that doesn't make you one, no matter what she thinks. Her thinking you have marital issues doesn't make it true. Don't JADE.

You could say "thanks mom, it's not a good time, let's try this again another time" She will want to know more- but you don't have to say more than "it's nothing for you to worry about mom, it's just not a good time- we can visit another time" and then disengage.

Thank you Notwendy. Do you know why your own mom comes with up stuff like “your marriage is on the rocks”?

My own mother comes up with this too, just different permutations of it. And there’s not even one indication that I may have said to her, like maybe accidentally confiding in her, because I don’t really talk to my her about my husband anyway. We seldom fight so there’s nothing to talk about. Not that I would tell her anything if there were though. It’s just baffling to me where this even comes from.

I know she has always had marriage problems with my dad, so is she projecting?

Thank you for the JADE acronym. I’ve never heard of this, but I’ll read up about it.

[pursuingJoy]

Any tips on how not to get triggered?

Two things that help me:
(1) Remind yourself it's not personal. Her intense fear of abandonment drives her to say and do things, and it is her responsibility to manage her emotions. You can be happy even if she isn't.
(2) Stay present and focused on day to day life, husband, friends, pets, projects and hobbies. Create a special distraction. Retrain your brain.

[PearlsBefore]

This is literally her series of text messages to me that came with 9 missed calls:

How are you?
Calling
Where are you?
Please answer me. God bless.
Pls talk to me
One word only, ok? Pls?
I don't feel I could settle down if you don't pick up
Pls pick up just for a second
Did you fight with your husband?
It's ok if we don't visit you guys if we are the reason our visiting is the reason of you guys fighting to keep the peace

That series of message above is inexplicable to me. How can that even come from an adult? Let alone, a senior citizen who has supposed to have gained more wisdom at this point in their life.

I'm increasingly identifying as the "Gorram it, just laugh about it because otherwise the stress will kill you" kind of advisor - but I"ll offer up a gem from the https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=351337.0 humor thread.

[Couscous]

One “rule” I made for myself years ago was that I will not give my mother a single penny for non-essentials out of “filial duty” because I know it will just leave me feeling even more resentful of her than I already do. Maybe one day when I have forgiven her I will feel more generous towards her, but I am not there yet. My siblings on the other hand don’t have this rule and they begrudgingly let her guilt them into paying for things for her when they would rather not, and they end up feeling used and resentful and then they go to considerable length to find ways to “punish” her for having put them into that position.

In your case, it sounds like you may not really have the luxury of being able to offer them an all expenses paid vacation during peak season for flight/hotel costs, but that perhaps you feel like it is your “filial duty” to do so.

Is it an option for you to ask your parents to chip in for some of the expenses or do cultural norms prohibit you from being able to make such a request?

[Notwendy]

I don't think we can explain what they think. Once I went away for a weekend to myself and she assumed I was secretly getting a face lift. She's not had one and neither have I. Maybe one of her friends did that. I don't know where she comes up with these things but she will often ask if things are OK with me and my H. Sometimes she does that just to get information.

[zanyapple]

In your case, it sounds like you may not really have the luxury of being able to offer them an all expenses paid vacation during peak season for flight/hotel costs, but that perhaps you feel like it is your “filial duty” to do so.

Is it an option for you to ask your parents to chip in for some of the expenses or do cultural norms prohibit you from being able to make such a request?

There is a filial aspect of it and cultural as well. But I don't exactly begrudge them if I do that just because it was hard-earned money.

To me, it's more about... I'm giving you an all expense paid trip, the least you can do is at least appreciate it, be pleasant, behave, and not cause any drama. Kinda like a child where you expect them to behave if they want to go to Disneyland or something. She should at least be somewhat "obligated" to be nice leading up/during the trip instead of acting like a complete lunatic.

I think I get frustrated because in my eyes, what I'm asking for isn't too much. If my asks for ice cream, she knows she needs to behave to get that ice cream.

[zanyapple]

I don't think we can explain what they think. Once I went away for a weekend to myself and she assumed I was secretly getting a face lift. She's not had one and neither have I. Maybe one of her friends did that. I don't know where she comes up with these things but she will often ask if things are OK with me and my H. Sometimes she does that just to get information.

What is also annoying and baffling to me is the way she phrases it - either it's already inferred or a fact. It's not even like a generic "Is there something wrong" kinda message. Out of a million things that could go wrong in my life, it has to be my marriage.

[Cait]

I'm sorry you're going through this, what you're describing is classic BPD behavior in my experience (my brother has it). I've realized that you can't really understand what goes through their mind, only they can. They don't have the same thought process of a healthy adult, hence their disorder.

One explanation I've heard of BPD that resonates is that they go through life as if they are an emotional burn victim without "skin" - every word, lack of response, gesture, etc can be triggering because they have no emotional barrier. This description allowed me to feel empathy for them (it must be very hard going through life this way) and also reinforced my need for boundaries (I will no longer allow myself to be subject to their outbursts/abuse).

With a loved one with BPD, I've found it helpful to sit down and think about what my boundaries and values are, write them out and then stick to them. I'm not sure what yours are, but it could be helpful to think about and hopefully that will provide you with clarity over this holiday visit. Wishing you luck, it's not easy!

[Couscous]

I think I get frustrated because in my eyes, what I'm asking for isn't too much. If my asks for ice cream, she knows she needs to behave to get that ice cream.

The BPDs in my life react very negatively to anything that could be viewed as controlling. They are very intuitive and extremely sensitive to being controlled, even covertly, in any way. If there are strings attached of any sort, like expecting certain behavior, they will sense it and then their behavior gets even worse.

[zanyapple]

Blaming you is distressing to you but it's not about you. I'd suggest you don't react to it. If she thinks you are an elephant, that doesn't make you one, no matter what she thinks. Her thinking you have marital issues doesn't make it true. Don't JADE.

What would be a good non-JADE response if she ever brings up the hotel situation again? In her words, she said that my husband and I are “building a wall, but this is our protocol so they will just follow it.”

[zanyapple]

With a loved one with BPD, I've found it helpful to sit down and think about what my boundaries and values are, write them out and then stick to them. I'm not sure what yours are, but it could be helpful to think about and hopefully that will provide you with clarity over this holiday visit. Wishing you luck, it's not easy!

Thank you for your response. A couple boundaries I have are:

- She stays in a hotel during visits
- No more than one phone call in a span of 2 weeks

What other boundaries are good to set?

[zachira]

Another good boundary to set is to let your mother takes responsiblity for her emotions while you own yours. One of the best pieces of advice my therapist gave me was when in the presence of a dysfunctional person is to observe how I am feeling inside instead of focusing on the other person. When we have a BPD mother, we are trained from birth to take on the emotions of our mother. It takes lots of practice to go inward, own your feelings, and process them instead of being emeshed in your mother's overwhelming emotions. The toxic dynamic often goes like this: Mother is unhappy so she dumps on her child. The mother sees the child is unhappy, and now she feels better. The child feels terrible and confused.

[Notwendy]

For me, the Karpan triangle helped me to understand this kind of situation. You expect your mother to see your generous offer, but she only sees the one thing that doesn't suit her and assumes you are being hurtful. PwBPD see things from victim perspective and relate to others as if they are rescuers or persecutors.

[Notwendy]

This is a tough situation. I understand the frustration, because you have good intentions and yet, you also have boundaries. It's very frustrating to have good intentions somehow twisted into something else.

For my BPD mother, any insinuation that there could be any issue with her is distressing to her. The family secret was to make sure all appears to be normal. The hotel idea to her tells your mother otherwise. How could you not want your dear loving mother to be with you? (yes I know you have reasons but this is how she would see it)

It's been several years but on one of my parents visits, I did ask them to stay with us (long before I understood BPD). We had a guest room with its own bathroom so guests have privacy. It didn't make sense for them to stay in a hotel when we had this. (The kids were little at the time but eventually this room became one of the kids' rooms later on).

Well my parents got angry at something and decided they didn't want to stay with me and moved to a hotel. I have no idea what they were upset about. I didn't do anything to cause this. My mother is not expected to do anything- I fix the meals, clean up. Dad played with the kids. I suspect they were arguing with each other but got angry and stomped out of the house suddenly.

At that time, I didn't understand BPD and took it personally. From then on, they stayed in a hotel by their choice if they visited. I did stay with them when I visited but eventually decided I would stay in a hotel. I think it's better that way.

So even if it's a good thing, it's not possible to change how your mother sees things. I understand the frustration. Here is how I try to manage this. I try to follow my own values. If I think I have tried to do something nice for her, whatever she says about it doesn't change that but I make sure that whatever I do is because I want to do it, or am willing to do it, not because I expect her to see it as something nice. I don't have expectations of her. I can still have my feelings hurt but it helps to not take her behavior as personally.

[zanyapple]

For me, the Karpan triangle helped me to understand this kind of situation. You expect your mother to see your generous offer, but she only sees the one thing that doesn't suit her and assumes you are being hurtful. PwBPD see things from victim perspective and relate to others as if they are rescuers or persecutors.

In our culture, when you are eating at the dinner table, you are expected to invite whoever else is in the house (and the invitee is expected to decline your invite. Weird huh? Lol), especially if the person does not live with you.

For example, if there's a plumber fixing your sink during dinner time, you must invite the plumber to eat with you. But the plumber is expected to say "no."

A few years back, uBPD mom and dad were staying with us during this visit. They were out one evening and when they came back, they passed by the dining area where my in-laws were having dinner. My in-laws didn't prepare a large meal for everyone, they were just eating takeout they bought for themselves.

To this day, my mom still harps about how she feels bad that she wasn't invited by my in-laws. My in-laws are from a different culture and they don't naturally do this, so my mom's expectations are unreasonable. Besides, it's not like my in laws prepared a feast, so there was nothing that could have been shared anyway.

Is this another manifestation of her BPD? To me, why would you expect someone to do something that isn't a part of their culture? It never would have occurred to them in the first place? It's like expecting a pig to be able to fly!