Accountability and blaming

[JP1214]

Hi All,
I’m new here! My husband of 4 years was recently (officially) diagnosed with BPD. I’ve been positive about it for about 2 years. Anyway, does anyone else have issues with their partner trying to force them to take accountability all the time? Not just by implied actions and manipulation but actually telling you that you need to take accountability in the relationship and that you never want to take full accountability? Quite frankly, sometimes I do have trouble admitting fault, at least to the degree he wants, largely because I feel his reactions and perspective are so skewed and disproportionate and often blindside me. And it  often seems like he wants me to take 100% blame and accountability for everything even if I only have like 5% responsibility for the situation. And honestly it seems that he wants me to take responsibility for HIS feelings (though he says that is a ridiculous lie and he doesn’t see it that way at all).

 For example, I’ll apologize for the tone or timing of things I say to him. But he wants me to go even further. He basically wants me to admit that I’m emotionally abusive to him. I can see the roots of it. He always wants vindication and justice from people who have hurt him in the past. Especially his parents. He has told me several times about the one time his mom briefly apologized to him for how she “washed her hands” of him as a child because he was difficult to deal with. I think that is why he always wants me to take more accountability than I am actually responsible for. He wants vindication for all wrong doing to him (real or imagined).

How do you deal with this? I feel like not JADE- ing is only mildly and occasionally helpful. He presses and hounds me and demands I answer him and answer for myself. And if I just say things like “ok” or “mmhmm” or “ I can see that” so as not to engage, he’ll just keep going and going and then get angry and say something like “oh you’re just gonna keep saying “ok” or not respond to me??”. And he absolutely WILL NOT forget about it. Everything is cumulative to him. And he will bring it up again and again and not let the topic or conversation ever die. I feel like the only way he’ll be happy is if I grovel, and kowtow to every single accusation that he feels is true. And I’m just developing a shorter and shorter fuse myself. I’m absolutely exhausted.

When I do disengage and leave, I usually get in my car, drive to a quiet park, and just sit in my car and scream at the top of my lungs and cry my eyes out until I feel at least a little bit of a release. How do I deal with the constant hounding and demanding I answer questions about MY “horrible” Behavior and provide proof of taking accountability? It’s getting really hard for me to just listen to it, even though I know he’s got a lot of things backwards and he’s basically a toddler having a tantrum. Even though I know what’s going on, it’s so so difficult for me to keep dealing with it.

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[RisingAboveAll]

Yes, my BPDex demanded I take “accountability” constantly, demanded elaborate apologies, really harped on me not being accountable— for things I’ve apologized for endlessly. Things which are not even wrong—as if boundary setting is abusive and racist (tbis was an interracial relationship). As if leaving a miserable fight is abusive and abandoning. Accountability, accountability all the time —but the BPD never ever is to blame, in their minds, always innocent and victimized. It’s absurd. Don’t get caught if you can help it. I’ve come to understand that every time she felt a negative emotion she thought I was responsible and had to “do” something about it to “fix” what she was feeling. These are not obligations humans have to one another…

Even you feeling you have to “prove” that you have taken accountability is evidence of him being controlling, blaming and illogical —I hope you can get some space.

[JP1214]

RisingAboveAll,

Yes, very similar behaviors/thought patterns. And he frequently says “I own all my stuff. I always take way more accountability than you in our relationship.”  So frustrating! We have plenty of good days too, which just makes it all the more frustrating when the bad days come on. Like one day I can do no wrong and he has zero problems with anything I say or do. I’m just his “wonderful wife” that he is so grateful for. Then the next day I’m the most “difficult” person he’s ever been a relationship with or has ever had to deal with and he has “never been treated this badly by anyone”. The black and white thinking is exhausting.  Emotional whiplash!

[who_knows11]

Hi All,
I’m new here! My husband of 4 years was recently (officially) diagnosed with BPD. I’ve been positive about it for about 2 years. Anyway, does anyone else have issues with their partner trying to force them to take accountability all the time? Not just by implied actions and manipulation but actually telling you that you need to take accountability in the relationship and that you never want to take full accountability? Quite frankly, sometimes I do have trouble admitting fault, at least to the degree he wants, largely because I feel his reactions and perspective are so skewed and disproportionate and often blindside me. And it  often seems like he wants me to take 100% blame and accountability for everything even if I only have like 5% responsibility for the situation. And honestly it seems that he wants me to take responsibility for HIS feelings (though he says that is a ridiculous lie and he doesn’t see it that way at all).

 For example, I’ll apologize for the tone or timing of things I say to him. But he wants me to go even further. He basically wants me to admit that I’m emotionally abusive to him. I can see the roots of it. He always wants vindication and justice from people who have hurt him in the past. Especially his parents. He has told me several times about the one time his mom briefly apologized to him for how she “washed her hands” of him as a child because he was difficult to deal with. I think that is why he always wants me to take more accountability than I am actually responsible for. He wants vindication for all wrong doing to him (real or imagined).

How do you deal with this. I feel like not JADE- ing is only mildly and occasionally helpful. He presses and hounds me and demands I answer him and answer for myself. And if I just say things like “ok” or “mmhmm” or “ I can see that” so as not to engage, he’ll just keep going and going and then get angry and say something like “oh you’re just gonna keep saying “ok” or not respond to me??”. And he absolutely WILL NOT forget about it. Everything is cumulative to him. And he will bring it up again and again and not let the topic or conversation ever die. I feel like the only way he’ll be happy is if I grovel, and kowtow to every single accusation that he feels is true. And I’m just developing a shorter and shorter fuse myself. I’m absolutely exhausted.

When I do disengage and leave, I usually get in my car, drive to a quiet park, and just sit in my car and scream at the top of my lungs and cry my eyes out until I feel at least a little bit of a release. How do I deal with the constant hounding and demanding I answer questions about MY “horrible” Behavior and provide proof of taking accountability? It’s getting really hard for me to just listen to it, even though I know he’s got a lot of things backwards and he’s basically a toddler having a tantrum. Even though I know what’s going on, it’s so so difficult for me to keep dealing with it.

Exactly what happens with my uBPDw as well.  I never take accountability according to her.  I've decided there is no dealing with it for me.  I've stopped dealing with it all together.  That just makes her even more angry sometimes.  The exhaustion you are speaking about has overcome me.  I will sit and not speak through her 2 hour rant.  Then get up and go to bed.  I get blamed for just walking away as always.  I don't know how else it can be handled.  I can JADE or not JADE.  I get the same reaction either way.  Maybe just with different words or sticking points.  Wish I had more thought on what to do.  You are definitely not alone though

[Couscous]

He basically wants me to admit that I’m emotionally abusive to him.

This jumped off the screen for me.

Basically, in their mind you, if you are not 100% to blame then it means that they are 100% to blame. It's black or white, all or nothing thinking which is a key symptom of BPD. This is no small problem so I don't have any quick and dirty tips for you, but what I have found to be most helpful for dealing with this exact issue is the book Emotional Blackmail. Not JADEing is definitely not enough for this. It also sounds like he may have Obsessive Compulsive Personality in the mix -- and the non-defensive communication in the book should help with that.

[SilverSwan]

All of that sounds familiar. I have not found a way out of the labyrinth. My pwbpd goes to blame mode very often. I might be asking him something important (I needed him to carry laundry because my hand was broken)   but he cant stick to the topic at hand (just carry the laundry) it turns into him suggesting that my need was somehow hurting him, he seems to cling to any small occurrence that could possibly have a negative interpretation (my face looked tired when I asked so he thinks I am accusing him of being lazy).    And then he hammers at me telling me that I never accept blame - and I just have to say 'this isn't a situation that requires blame'.  Talking to him doesn't get a good result... it just circles around his skewed perspective.   Its exhausting but has gotten less exhausting sense accepting that there is no technique I can use to create wellness for him.  Its not a fault in my communication and its not a relationship problem. Its a serious mental health issue, and way out of my ability to influence.  I cry a lot too.

[Couscous]

Its exhausting but has gotten less exhausting sense accepting that there is no technique I can use to create wellness for him.  Its not a fault in my communication and its not a relationship problem. Its a serious mental health issue, and way out of my ability to influence.  I cry a lot too.

You have nailed it completely. All one can do is accept that one is powerless over someone else’s irrational behavior. Because they so easily get triggered into in a state of fight or flight, they interpret neutral facial expressions as threat cues, and their ability to be rational evaporates. The only option that preserves one’s self-respect is to completely disengage from the interaction, although one alternative strategy is to try to humorously admit to the charge, e.g, “You’re absolutely right. I guess I am pretty selfish and in fact, I’m actually working on becoming even more selfish.”

One response to an accusation of thinking that they are lazy, is to mirror their upset by responding with, “I do? Oh gosh, that’s just terrible! No wonder you’re so upset! Oh, would you mind grabbing the laundry basket?”

[SaltyDawg]

I am going to be a 'broken record' and say 'me too'. 

Get the blame game all the time directed at me [when things are bad].  She takes all of the accountability in our marriage [where it is good]. 

I try not to JADE, and if it is a blatant lie that can hurt me with others, I correct her by gently telling her the truth -- but no more than I have to.

I do love Couscous' suggestion of being sarcastic; however, I think that would most likely trigger a rage in my uBPDw.

[Manic Miner]

This jumped off the screen for me.

Basically, in their mind you, if you are not 100% to blame then it means that they are 100% to blame. It's black or white, all or nothing thinking which is a key symptom of BPD. This is no small problem so I don't have any quick and dirty tips for you, but what I have found to be most helpful for dealing with this exact issue is the book Emotional Blackmail. Not JADEing is definitely not enough for this. It also sounds like he may have Obsessive Compulsive Personality in the mix -- and the non-defensive communication in the book should help with that.

Well, add me to this sad list as well. What OP said is so relatable.

My wife labeled me with the worst kind of traits and insults, to the point that I said - alright, I'm the worst man in the Universe, that ever existed. Why are you still with me then, after all these years? What do you hope to get from the ruthless, mean and abusing man that loves to see you suffer and lacks even the basic form of empathy?
Her response is always 'I never said that you were that bad' but this does shut her burst down temporarily.
I guess hearing me talk about myself badly, even though it's humorous and ironic take, actually relieves her from her own blackhole swirl.

If you are able, you can try holding or hugging him when he is in the middle of the episode (unless he is violent). It's very hard to do, as hugging is the last thing you want to do to a person that is belittling and cursing you, but it can help stop the fire.
They are sad people, looking for comfort using the worst methods possible. If they could return to a womb to bake for a few more days everyone of us would be spared, some would still be happily married, but alas, it is what it is.

[SaltyDawg]

Manic Miner,

   I love the 'hugging' idea.  How does that work for you?

[JP1214]

This jumped off the screen for me.

Basically, in their mind you, if you are not 100% to blame then it means that they are 100% to blame. It's black or white, all or nothing thinking which is a key symptom of BPD. This is no small problem so I don't have any quick and dirty tips for you, but what I have found to be most helpful for dealing with this exact issue is the book Emotional Blackmail. Not JADEing is definitely not enough for this. It also sounds like he may have Obsessive Compulsive Personality in the mix -- and the non-defensive communication in the book should help with that.

He definitely has some OCD traits, but don't think he qualifies for full on OCD. Quite honestly, I don't know of many people who have been through the depth and breadth  of trauma that he has and are still alive. He is a more complicated case than probably most pwBPD. He is also diagnosed with Bipolar disorder, C-PTSD, very likely has had (at least) one traumatic brain injury, and is a recovering addict (who has had several relapses in the last couple months). So there is a lot going on there besides the BPD that also exacerbate the BPD traits. I appreciate the book suggestion. I am always looking for good reading to help me understand and cope better. I will check it out.

[JP1214]

I am going to be a 'broken record' and say 'me too'. 

Get the blame game all the time directed at me [when things are bad].  She takes all of the accountability in our marriage [where it is good]. 

I try not to JADE, and if it is a blatant lie that can hurt me with others, I correct her by gently telling her the truth -- but no more than I have to.

I do love Couscous' suggestion of being sarcastic; however, I think that would most likely trigger a rage in my uBPDw.

Same. Sarcasm is one of my husband's biggest triggers. And I have always had an uber-sarcastic sense of humor. So that has been a big adjustment and change for me. But I definitely still think the sarcastic comments in my mind because sometimes the behaviors and accusations are so ridiculous and opposite to what is actually happening.

[JP1214]

Manic Miner,
I do like the idea of hugging him (if he's not violently angry). That's a good idea. I can often see that his motivation is to feel validated and loved. But it truly is so hard to see the sad, neglected, hurt little boy inside in the moments when he's on a tirade about my "awful" qualities. But I will try that.

[SaltyDawg]

Hugging -- I agree this is a good idea.  However my wife is so pi$$ed at me.  I ask her permission to hug her when I get up every morning, she only accepts when she isn't splitting which is about 2/3 of the time.  And then it is like hugging a bag of bones that is warm to the touch only -- there is no reciprocity in the hug, it is a one way thing.

[Manic Miner]

Manic Miner,
I do like the idea of hugging him (if he's not violently angry). That's a good idea. I can often see that his motivation is to feel validated and loved. But it truly is so hard to see the sad, neglected, hurt little boy inside in the moments when he's on a tirade about my "awful" qualities. But I will try that.

Yes - hugging or being nice to someone that is cursing you is the last thing on your mind, but it can work, as you know the problem isn't really you but him. Add lines like 'ok ok honey, come here, it's alright' + hug or take his hand.

The logic behind is, instead of pouring gas to their bone fire, you are offering the opposite - being nice, warm and supportive. They are desperately wanting attention, to be heard, loved and understood. You are offering them that too. And finally, you are effectively deflecting their anger/insults to something positive and steering away from that endless loop of garbage. Once they are out of their own loop, they can be a lot more sane and empathetic.

One time I said to my W that her hands were really nice and gentle - I really meant that, because I was watching them while she was yelling and decided to say it out loud, in the middle of the storm. Instantly, the whole mess stopped and turned out to be unexpected for her. She even thanked me. While she did continue to tell me her sad story, the tension was greatly reduced, much more sane and on the level where I could effectively say something meaningful.

Manic Miner,
   I love the 'hugging' idea.  How does that work for you?

It generally works. At worst, it won't spoil anything or make it worse. The worst outcome I got was when my wife was 'fighting' with her hands and arms in the air like a child, saying 'no! Don't hug me now! I don't need that!' But even then the anger toned down considerably and soon she was sane enough to talk normally.

The hardest part is not the response, but making yourself able to do it. Like, really hard. Sometimes her insults are so twisted and mean that I cannot bare myself to be near her, let alone be kind or gentle.

If you want to try this, be as genuine as possible, overly sweet flattery can be sensed and seen from space. Nobody likes that.

And then it is like hugging a bag of bones that is warm to the touch only -- there is no reciprocity in the hug, it is a one way thing.

Well, I guess some kind of trust or love need to exist between you and your partner. Don't expect the reciprocity in the hug - sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. Sometimes it's like hugging a teenage brat.
Mutual hugging is not the point - it's the act that you say without words that you are open, gentle and caring. That you don't want to fight. It's the fire extinguisher. Steering the junk conversation to some sane grounds.

[SaltyDawg]

Thanks for your insight.  I will still try to be consistent and gentle and reaffirming.  Like you said "At worst, it won't spoil anything or make it worse." so it doesn't have a negative, so it is neutral or positive.

[Twinkle_Time]

Just another "me too" here.

At one point in our relationship, I found myself alone in my car, beating my hands on the steering wheel, crying and screaming "I didn't do anything wrong! I did nothing wrong!"

I hurt my hands.

It really is the most maddening thing. I feel like I have to betray myself in these situations. If I don't, and I speak honestly, well then...

My uBPD boyfriend has been through extensive therapy and, ironically, uses what he's learned in therapy to compliment and assist his blame shifting.

I'm a smart woman, and I've been through plenty therapy myself, but it seems intelligence is no match for emotion gone haywire.

[50andwastedlife]

Goodness, that's so familiar. I have found myself wondering if I AM an agressive bully who is to blame for everything that's wrong in our relationship. My OH hates his BPD diagnosis and won't really allow it to be mentioned so sometimes I forget that it's not just that I'm a monster and basically his abusive mother.

I try the hugging. He hates it.

By the way, what is JADEing? I'm new...

[SaltyDawg]

JADE - an acronym for Judging Arguing Defending and Explaining.  For normal people doing this while it can be hurtful, it is generally helpful to explain your position when your opinion differs from their -- everyone is unique.  However, when someone is irrational and cannot be reasoned with [splitting and / or raging] when you do this, it will often escalate the situation with the BPD/NPD and make the situation much much worse -- the recommended thing to do during an escalated conflict with your pwBPD [person with BPD] is irrational is not to JADE which is the same thing as 'stonewalling' and is not recommended for normal people; however, for the BPD person it is as this is lesser of two 'evils' so to speak in order to de-escalate an emotional conflict that does less damage.  It is a 'no-win' type situation, and you have to minimize the damage.

Here is the thread that will help you will all of the shorthand / acronyms being used -- https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0

[EyesUp]

Accusations are often confessions.

In this sense, if you are made to feel that you are entirely responsible for x, y, z, it's likely that on some level the person who makes you feel this way has disordered way of processing their own contribution to the situation.

There may be no untangling this situation, however your awareness of it, and sensitivity to it, may help you process it independently - outside of the immediate situation in which you're involved.

[JP1214]

Just another "me too" here.

At one point in our relationship, I found myself alone in my car, beating my hands on the steering wheel, crying and screaming "I didn't do anything wrong! I did nothing wrong!"

I hurt my hands.

It really is the most maddening thing. I feel like I have to betray myself in these situations. If I don't, and I speak honestly, well then...

My uBPD boyfriend has been through extensive therapy and, ironically, uses what he's learned in therapy to compliment and assist his blame shifting.

I'm a smart woman, and I've been through plenty therapy myself, but it seems intelligence is no match for emotion gone haywire.

Ugh. Same! I have definitely hurt my hands from pounding the steering wheel out of intense frustration. My husband has also been through lots and lots of therapy (as have I)  and likes to use it as a weapon that he twists to fit his narrative of me. And then he accuses me of doing the same thing to him. He will literally sometimes twist what the therapist has said to fit his narrative. Like things that have been said in couples therapy. So I was there and remember what was said and the context. Then he’ll repeat it later and I’m thinking WTH?? That is not what was said/meant. Good to know I’m not the only one.

[JP1214]

Goodness, that's so familiar. I have found myself wondering if I AM an agressive bully who is to blame for everything that's wrong in our relationship. My OH hates his BPD diagnosis and won't really allow it to be mentioned so sometimes I forget that it's not just that I'm a monster and basically his abusive mother.

I try the hugging. He hates it.

By the way, what is JADEing? I'm new...

My husband hates the diagnosis too (unless he can use it as a scapegoat, occasionally). After learning a lot more about BPD and finding this forum, I have finally gotten to the point where I’m confident that I am not a monster and an insane, difficult, abusive, extremely F*ed up person that he often tries to convince me I am. . However,  I recognize that I have my own issues and am working on them. But I am now confident that I am a pretty “normal” person and can see his behaviors for what they really  are. But it’s still extremely difficult to not be upset by and react to  his unhealthy behaviors,

BTW: JADE= Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain (i.e. during an argument/discussion)

[Manic Miner]

Ugh. Same! I have definitely hurt my hands from pounding the steering wheel out of intense frustration. My husband has also been through lots and lots of therapy (as have I)  and likes to use it as a weapon that he twists to fit his narrative of me. And then he accuses me of doing the same thing to him. He will literally sometimes twist what the therapist has said to fit his narrative. Like things that have been said in couples therapy. So I was there and remember what was said and the context. Then he’ll repeat it later and I’m thinking WTH?? That is not what was said/meant. Good to know I’m not the only one.

Of course you're not the only one. My W does the same. Not only can twist what therapists have or haven't said, but makes up her own versions and even lie if that can help support her narrative.
I find her manipulation exceptionally hard to take, as any trust I have deteriorates, even when I know it's part of this condition. It's always like reading between the lines and can be exhausting.

[SaltyDawg]

The more agitated they become, the more the twisting their narrative becomes, at least with my pwBPD.