NC-BPD mom sent me an invite to add me back on social media

[Riv3rW0lf]

I am really a social media user, especially since I've found this forum. This safe place here truly is the best social media I could have. But like many people, I still have a facebook account , if only because it makes it easy to contact people I don't have the phone number of.

Anyway... I thought it was worth pointing out that social media doesn't really mean much to me in the current context.

I have been no to very low contact with BPD mother for a year now. Christmas is fast approaching. I know she wants to see her grandchildren. There has been signs that she is looking to improve her behavior, but I don't hold any hope, and unsure if I am strong enough.

She added me on social media two hours ago.

Is it time to go low contact?

Hoping to get some good insight and questions from you, to evaluate if I truly am ready or not.

I know H doesn't want her near our children. He doesn't her in our life. But it's not his decision to make. I could see her by myself at first I guess. See what happens. I don't know.

Strangely, stepfather is the one I feel most guilty and ashamed about... Like I am scared of his views more than BPD mothers, I am scared to know how much he might resent my decision to go away. He was important to me, the only fatherly figure I had between BPD mother and egocentrist dad. Stepfather always showed up for me. He was kind. Anyway...

Any help is appreciated

[Riv3rW0lf]

I said I am really... I meant I am NOT really... 

[Turkish]

I first read it as "not really" 

I agree that it's not your husband's decision on whether or not you have a r/s with your mother. With your kids, it's a bit tricky. You seem like you want to meet up with her to test the waters, yes? So why not?

[Couscous]

My main suggestion would be that you do not visit your mother without your H — especially not at first. Perhaps eventually you could meet up with her by yourself for coffee in a public place, but it seems risky to try to do this too soon. It also might be worth seeing a family therapist with your H before reinitiating in person contact, to help you both get on the same page, especially since he seems to have exceptionally strong feelings about your mother. 

I also second what Turkish said about how it’s not your H’s place to make the decision for you as to how much contact you have with your mother, and unless she is abusive to your kids or has major dysregulation episodes in front of them, it’s also not his place to prohibit your kids from having contact with her. It is reasonable for him to not want them to spend time alone with her, but a time-limited supervised visit (by both you and your H), where you enforce strict limits on your mother’s behavior, is not going to damage your kids. If you both remain emotionally regulated during visits with your mother then your children will not be harmed even if your mother starts getting dysregulated. You just calmly end the visit and tell the kids something like, “Mamie is having some big feelings and she needs some alone time to sort them out. We will visit her another time.” If your H is getting triggered by her, then he really needs to get into personal therapy to address this. Like the expression says: If it’s hysterical, it’s historical.

This video by Ken Adams has a lot of good tips for the holidays, especially his suggestion about the marriage counseling. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k02Eb7fJ0hU

[Methuen]

So if I have this right, you’ve been low to no contact for a year.  Then out of the blue she adds you to social media?

Seems a bit off to me.  But maybe it’s my generation. 

I think you are the best person to figure out what is best for you.
If you want to respond, you should.  But if you are feeling obligation or guilt, it might be worth doing some more work first to “feel stronger “.  Do what is right  for you and your values.

[Notwendy]

My bigger issue with a BPD mother on Facebook is that it's not just access to me but my contacts. Even with privacy settings, if someone replies to a post, people can see that. With her poor boundaries, it would make me feel uncomfortable as it's not a one on one relationship but involves more people.

I don't post a lot on Facebook and I don't post personal information or drama. I also stay away from posting anything political. Still though, I would like to keep a boundary between her and my social/work contacts on Facebook. I'd be concerned she might send requests to my contacts or just not be respectful of the personal boundaries I have on Facebook when it comes to the content of my posts.

Fortunately my BPD mother isn't on social media but if she was, these are my concerns so hopefully they may help you decide.

[Imatter33]

I was of the thinking when this happened to me...

Any initiation to break nc will happen by me not my mom. So I let that request sit in my inbox...and I agree with notwendy.. there is so much information on a facebook. It can be a minefield.

[SaltyDawg]

Everyone has excellent suggestions.

I will only add that you can 'block' people on your Facebook profile [this feature has existed for over two decades, I did that to my uBPDxgf 2 decades ago], you can also post public posts that block that person too [I just discovered this setting a couple weeks ago, for a post that I wanted a limited audience for], get to know how to use the Facebook advanced features, set them as default.

[zachira]

So complicated to figure out what kinds and levels of contact to have with a BPD mother. From my experiences with my BPD mother and what I have learned from other members on PSI, I find that the decisions on what types of contact you have with your mother including NC and LC do not have to be final decisions. It is an ongoing learning process as to what types of contact works for you now which may not be what works for you later on. For example, many members find that once they have children that they have to set really strict boundaries with their BPD mother as they do not want their children used as pawns by their BPD mother. As far as social media goes, members here have given some really useful advice based on their own experiences with their BPD mother. What worked for me with my mother, was to always try to have people around that she wanted to look good in front of and to avoid being alone with her which is when she felt comfortable abusing me with zero regards for my feelings or how it looked. With my own large extended narcissistic family and their enablers, I continue to struggle with setting boundaries, as I know that the family narcissists feel more empowered when putting down the scapegoats, one of which I am, and the more they know about what I am doing, the more opportunities they have to harm me. There is perhaps really no reason to be on social media with your mother except if it helps you to know what she is doing so you can set better boundaries with her. I am able to set safer boundaries for myself by reading the posts of friends on facebook that I am LC or NC, because these posts help me to avoid narcissistic family members I don't want to be around. I post very little on facebook knowing any information I provide about myself can be used to harm me, and I just can't outthink evil people as far as what they might do to harm me as I am not like them. We support your decisions on what types of contact you decide to have with your mother now and in the future.

[Methuen]

So many good thoughts and suggestions have been expressed here.

Reading Zachira's post made me think of my own situation.  For many of us, a confusing and troubling aspect of all this is that we can recognize some good things and moments with our mother's in our history.  It wasn't always 100% bad.  So after a spell where nothing bad has happened (due to LC or NC), we start to have hope that things "could be different".

It's kind of the Jekyll and Hyde scenario.  When Jekyll is out and about, we have hope. (Well I don't anymore, but I used to be naive enough to have hope).  However, it's only a matter of time until they flip to Hyde.  And then we get another emotional battering.  At least that's my experience.

[Couscous]

And then we get another emotional battering.

This is why the concept of the “tea party” relationship was created, aka cordial contact. You essentially treat your mother as you would a distant relative, and have no expectations of the relationship whatsoever. Visits ideally take place in public, with one’s spouse, for a time-limited duration, and you discuss the weather. Doing an activity like going to a museum would make this even easier. Going to a movie, concert, show, bowling, mini-golf etc. would make it even easier to avoid conversation.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I first read it as "not really"  

I agree that it's not your husband's decision on whether or not you have a r/s with your mother. With your kids, it's a bit tricky. You seem like you want to meet up with her to test the waters, yes? So why not?

Why not?

... I think my reservation comes from knowing when I offer a hand, she will want the whole arm, legs and body with it.

I am pretty sure, that if I didn't have any children right now, she wouldn't even be trying to "get me back". The reason I feel this way might be due to how she treated me prior to having children versus after... As if, having children changed the whole dynamic, I was suddenly worth something because I had provided her with grandchildren. But I am aware that as soon as she has full access to my children (as in when they are old enough and have cell phones and such) I will be discarded.

So...
Knowing I cannot have her unsupervised with my children, knowing this is a boundary I can never let go of, I find myself struggling to see any future route that don't involve fighting heavily around this specific boundary.

And I wonder if it is worth it...

My children currently have an amazing grandmother in my father's wife. She is gentle, respectful, empathetic, and she loves them very much. Do they really need to see the other grandmother who abuses their mother in front of them, wedges them, gets jealous, is trying to emotionally enmesh with them as soon as they enter the doorway? She does try to control herself, but most of her behaviors are still very dysfunctional and I can't tolerate those... She is not safe. She can love, she hurt. But she is not safe.

What I am trying to figure out is what is this freaking part of me that wants to give her a chance in low contact. Why is it that I want to try a "tea cup" relationship like Couscous presented. I mean... What it even the point? Talking about the weather in a public decor, she is bound to call and ask for more, and write and demand and then I will have to set boundaries... It just becomes an added effort, an extra puzzle on my life that I don't really want to solve. Between my children, my husband, my startup and school, I am already pulled in all directions. I just don't want the extra struggle...especially since I simply don't see it going well, and it might only bring her sorrows to not get her ways... 

You are right Zacchira, it is hard to figure out the precise amount of BPD we can endure before it becomes disabling for us.

And you are right Methuen that this might be the double edge of no/low contact. They appear in a better light, because our memories go to the good sides of them, the good memories, we only see Jekyll, and we forget Hyde, because that's how we survived all our childhood. We know rationally there is no hope but emotionally, at a primal level, we still want to attach ourselves to our mother. We get older, but we will always remain the children that were starved, dreaming of the inconditonal love we always wanted but never got.

Imatter33, you raised a good point, and you are right : I went no contact, and I'm the one who should decide when I will break it
 Not her and her pressure. We had a good exchange last time where she confided she was doing a seminar on communications. Maybe she thought I was coming back, but I was answering her previous email stating :"you left so you are the one that has to come back and I don't want to meet via family therapy." Nowhere did I state I had changed my mind about family therapy and our current contact. I only answered that I loved her and was working on feeling safe again within our relationship. It wasn't me coming back. It was only me sharing I wasn't ready yet in a gentle way.

Notwendy, I don't share anything personal on facebook, there are no picture of my children on it. So I guess that's why I felt a bit icky. She wouldn't get more access to me by adding me on Facebook, since I am not a Facebook user...it's the meaning behind the acceptation that I don't want to give...

And her invitation played in that grey area... It's just facebook, it doesn't mean anything for me. But to her, it does. And maybe that's where I need to be cautious.

Finally..H will never back me up for a visit at BPD mother. He was perfectly clear he is against me breaking no contact and will not, in any way, support me in reestablishing contact. He doesn't want her to see our children, ever, and if I go, it will be without him as well... Not very supportive but I get where he is coming from...

[zachira]

The kind of love we get from our mother is the foundation of our self esteem. It is normal to hope things can change with our BPD mother, that she will indeed shows she cares and loves us at some point, possibly actually genuinely apologize. Other people can mistreat us, and we can decide to dislike them, and genuinely move on. Having a mother who abuses her children and grandchildren is a heartbreaking life long loss that we will never get over. I don't think we can ever stop hoping and wishing to have had a mother who truly cares about her children. When my mother was alive, I beat my head against the wall trying to have limited contact with her and her sudden bouts of cruelty came out of nowhere. All I am trying to say, that it is normal to hope and want to have a better relationship with a BPD mother, and to keep thinking of what would make it possible to do so.

[Couscous]

I totally hear where you are coming from and can so relate to feeling under pressure due to the holidays. As it happens, my mother was in town for two weeks and is leaving today after flying 3,600 miles to force me to end NC with her — and I politely declined her invitation to meet with her so we could “mend” our relationship. I was under some intense pressure to see her — including by my father, and fortunately I was able resist. It actually was not hard at all in the end, and at the point where I was feeling intense anxiety about it, I stopped and did a five minute grounding exercise, and and almost like magic, all of my anxiety disappeared and I have felt fine ever since.  

What helped me the most was reminding myself that this was not an emergency and I did not have to make a permanent decision about NC right now. So maybe this Christmas you remain NC, and next year (or the year after) you try LC. There’s no need to make a permanent decision, and it needs to be on your timetable, not your mother’s.

I personally don’t think the decision to go NC longterm should be made without the guidance of a competent family therapist. I think it’s entirely possible to eventually to unmesh from our mothers and become self-differentiated enough that we can handle some amount of contact without getting triggered to high heaven. Staying in contact can be done entirely via email, or over the phone, and doesn’t need to include in person contact. If we can figure out what, if anything, our mothers have to give, and then be willing to accept whatever that is, I think some amount of cordial contact is totally possible.

We may even be able to find ways for our mothers to safely interact with our kids. For instance, I personally would feel OK about seeing my mother at a family gathering where she is distracted by all the people there and will not be able to enmesh with my kids. If she lived locally I think going out to dinner with her once a month would also make it very difficult for her to enmesh with my kids. Or even doing something like going to the playground with her.  I would think that it would probably take extensive contact for a grandmother to be able to enmesh with a grandchild, but in my case I am going to keep my kids extremely LC with my mother just to be safe. Especially since she is a mega love bomber…

A friend told me just yesterday about her difficult mother’s recent visit. Her mother said something very disparaging to her, and her 6 year son told her, “You’re being mean to my mommy!” So this gives me some hope that our kids will stay loyal to us. My own grandmother once criticized my father to me when I was 8 years old, and I remember feeling very angry at her for talking negatively about him - and I was very attached to her, even more so than to my own mother.

This video gave me a lot of food for thought, titled Setting Boundaries is Not Emotionally Cutting Off: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2wraNoDkak

[beatricex]

Hi Riv3rW0lf,
I think the biggest benefit I got from my latest round of NC (going on 2 and a half years) is I let go of the need to care what the flying monkeys think.  If you do initiate low contact with your Mom, like others have suggested, get clear with your H first.

Have a plan for the flying monkeys who might then come after you (they have been enjoying the benefits of hating on you with her, afterall).  To me that is the most damaging part, my Mom is mentally ill and can't help it.  They can.  That's the part that really hurts me the most.  If it is worth it to you to initiate some sort of contact for your children, I also agree that it should not be intimate, make it very public, in a park or meet at an outdoor shopping plaza or something.  Walk around with other people outdoors.  Don't let her corner you and make no apologies.  Prepare for the ambush, as it's likely coming.

I am speaking from my own personal experience of what happened to me when I resumed contact after going NC for 7 years.

 
b

[Riv3rW0lf]

That was an interesting video Couscous. Thank you for sharing. Lots to think about to be sure.

Beatricex, thank you for the wisdom. Yes, kinda feel like my brother and stepfather will never truly forgive me for the hurt I've caused my BPD mother when I left last November, and through our emails exchange this past year. Even if she does, in the end, I can almost feel their judgments. And I'm it saying that out of guilt, I needed to leave and heal, but this is not something they can understand.

I don't know... Is staying in No Contact because of fear a good thing though? I feel like ... Getting into contact out of obligation-fear-guilt would likely not be very healthy, but then is staying in No Contract out of fear better? Because I think that is the main reason I am staying no contact right now.

I fear the backlash.

So maybe I have to find ways to not have to go through it.

So Couscous, beatricex, you are right... I would need my H on board, and him present. Every time I see her. To keep her in check. And to feel safe. Or I reiterate to her that I need to see her with a family therapist first. That was the initial request and the objective was safety.

[Imatter33]

Its been a while since i did a quotebox correctly, so...

What I am trying to figure out is what is this freaking part of me that wants to give her a chance in low contact. Why is it that I want to try a "tea cup" relationship like Couscous presented. I mean... What it even the point? Talking about the weather in a public decor, she is bound to call and ask for more, and write and demand and then I will have to set boundaries... It just becomes an added effort, an extra puzzle on my life that I don't really want to solve. Between my children, my husband, my startup and school, I am already pulled in all directions. I just don't want the extra struggle...especially since I simply don't see it going well, and it might only bring her sorrows to not get her ways...

I feel this so often, All of it. The extra planning, preparing for backlash, not wanting to hurt her...so why break contact at all? I know when i asked a few weeks ago I came to the conclusion of needing therapy again to even initiate contact.

My thought is, if you ignore  the friend request .. you still hold the power dynamic, and yes it feels awkward to ignore a request..but you will either get a message that explains something further from her...something  like that could happen...or nothing.. and you will not have to be the hockey goalie as soon as you accept a request (give an inch) with facebook.

Another thought in regards to the tea party idea of NC is that I see this only working well with a queen type.  To explain:  I cannot do things like this with my pwBPD, bc they cannot afford small things, struggle to meet their needs (transportation)  and rely on family to do any extras. Which in a nutshell is a big reason that precipitated my nc with mom.

Her waifness makes my nc seem more inappropriate and harsh to me, but she still forced my hand bc i did not feel safe being an individual, saying no when I needed to, etc.
Our NC happened bc she did not respect a boundary.  And that was before I knew how important they needed to be.  Sorry doing some thinking aloud to my situation that may not benefit your own...but helpful.

Rw...you are strong. hug