I seriously need some help.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

She’s basically experiencing withdrawal symptoms so it’s not at all surprising that she’s lashing out at you. She’s trying bait you into game of emotional hot potato and if she can succeed in making you feel like sh*t then she will feel better. The problem is that calmer you stay the more agitated she will become.

So what you could do is to pretend to play her game by acting as if you are hurt and feeling defensive, (maybe even pretend to shed a few tears), and then storm out of the house (and stay out for the rest of the day while enjoying some peace and quiet) and see if that might calm her. Yes, this is extremely manipulative, however, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Edit: For more about emotional hot potato (aka the psychological game called Uproar) see this webpage:   https://web.archive.org/web/20201022211854/https://sites.google.com/site/worldeveryone/home/ta-games-using-criticism#

[Couscous]

She’s basically experiencing withdrawal symptoms so it’s not at all surprising that she’s lashing out at you. She’s trying bait you into game of emotional hot potato and if she can succeed in making you feel like sh*t then she will feel better. The problem is that calmer you stay the more agitated she will become.

So what you could do is to pretend to play her game by acting as if you are hurt and feeling defensive, (maybe even pretend to shed a few tears), and then storm out of the house (and stay out for the rest of the day while enjoying some peace and quiet) and see if that might calm her. Yes, this is extremely manipulative, however, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Edit: For more about emotional hot potato (aka the psychological game called Uproar) see this webpage:   https://web.archive.org/web/20201022211854/https://sites.google.com/site/worldeveryone/home/ta-games-using-criticism#

[engiebpd]

My ex has mentioned that I have become like a parent to her.   I'm taking care of most of the chores and the baby and she's sneaking out with her new guy and going out. 

The argument this morning was like I was a parent.  She comes home from work as if nothing happened.   

So I essentially went from hub to best friend to now a parent? 

[ForeverDad]

For those of us when went through the divorce mill and exited (somewhat) intact, our parenting was what really counted over and above everything else.  Often it was a struggle to get as much parenting as we needed.  Document how much parenting you're doing and how little your spouse is doing.  If she sinks her parenting ship, that's on your ex.  With the relationship doomed, accept the added parenting responsibilities as a Gift.

I remember once, just once, a dad complaining the ex often backed out of exchanges and failed to take the children.  My reply was, "Don't complain! Although it may frustrate your plans, Accept the Gift of additional parenting time."

[SaltyDawg]

So what you could do is to pretend to play her game by acting as if you are hurt and feeling defensive, (maybe even pretend to shed a few tears), and then storm out of the house (and stay out for the rest of the day while enjoying some peace and quiet) and see if that might calm her. Yes, this is extremely manipulative, however, desperate times call for desperate measures.

If you are recording for possible courtroom drama, I advise against any kind of 'play acting' - anything you say and do can be used against you in a court.  Remain calm, cool, and collected no matter how irrational they become while recording.

In addition to your audio recorder, use your cellphone to record too. 

If you have an android phone this is what I do to document with a date/time stamp video recording
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354091.msg13181755#msg13181755

[engiebpd]

How do psychiatrist diagnose bpd or bipolar?   My exwife has been prescribed with Lamictal.  She's been on it for 2 days and she has been telling me that it has been helping her with her emotions.

When I spoke with the psychiatrist, she says she can't tell if it's bipolar, bipolar 2 or bpd or a mix of any.   If the prescription works for my ex wife, does that mean she is bipolar?


The only thing my psychiatrist said is that bipolar, there are meds but none for bpd.     Apparently, in order for bpd to be improved is through therapy and dbt.   

I'm actually very curious if  she is bipolar or bpd.   

Updates:   she got into a fight with her new guy and he is not talking to her atm.    She is telling me she still loves him but thinks he is a dick now. I'm slightly concerned as we just barely received the respondent side to sign the divorce paperwork that includes the 50/50 everything agreement.   

After that is signed (she would need to) we would then proceed to negotiate the details within the 50/50.. custody, physical, location.

I was hoping this guy would still be with her at this period so she is less focused on the paperwork and more on him.   

I did see her reading the email from our mediator last night so I'm unsure if she plans to send it to people like her family to look at it.  Man I just want to get this over with without a fight

Also, if she is actually bipolar instead of bpd, how different is my situation?  Thanks guys!

[cranmango]

How do psychiatrist diagnose bpd or bipolar?   My exwife has been prescribed with Lamictal.  She's been on it for 2 days and she has been telling me that it has been helping her with her emotions.

When I spoke with the psychiatrist, she says she can't tell if it's bipolar, bipolar 2 or bpd or a mix of any.   If the prescription works for my ex wife, does that mean she is bipolar?

Ideally, a diagnosis of BPD or Bipolar would be made using a comprehensive diagnostic interview, plus monitoring of symptoms over a period of weeks/months. I am not a psychiatrist, but my understanding is that the therapeutic effects of Lamictal (for Bipolar Disorder) typically take a few weeks to kick in. Any effects within the first couple days are likely to be placebo.

In Bipolar Disorder, the mood episodes tend to last weeks/months. In episodes of mania there are often very high energy levels, no sleep, rapid talking, delusions of grandeur, and dangerous behavior (drug use, excessive spending, risky sex, etc). And there are typically also episodes of depression.

In BPD, the mood episodes tend to last hours/days, and are often triggered by interpersonal conflict. You might see some of the same self-destructive behaviors (drug use, risky sex, etc). But the behaviors are fueled by different factors. In Bipolar Disorder, the dangerous behaviors are typically very out of character for the person, and only occur during a mood episode. In BPD, the dangerous behaviors are in character for the person, and are often driven by a frantic effort to cope with sadness, anxiety, fear, etc.

You are right that there are no officially approved medications for BPD. Anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medications can sometimes take the edge off of symptoms, but typically the 'core problems' remain. Whereas in Bipolar Disorder, mood stabilizers can be very effective in preventing the mood episodes from coming back.

[ForeverDad]

You are right that there are no officially approved medications for BPD. Anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medications can sometimes take the edge off of symptoms, but typically the 'core problems' remain. Whereas in Bipolar Disorder, mood stabilizers can be very effective in preventing the mood episodes from coming back.

Sitting here in my armchair, my two cents worth is that I usually describe that Bipolar is typically a chemical imbalance of some sort that meds can address.

With Borderline, meds may moderate behaviors for a time - until the side effects are claimed to be a reason to stop them - but the real solution (well, if there is one the person will stick with) is focused and applied therapy such as DBT, CBT or similar.  Of course many with apparent BPD resist serious therapy, use it to pose as improving, or claim they were quickly fixed.  And you can't do it for them since BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships and hence your efforts won't succeed because of your closeness or even be sabotaged.

[engiebpd]

I see a split often throughout the week.   She will be angry with me for chiming in on something she says and will hate me.   Then a few hours later after a break, she comes back talking to me as if nothing happened.   Again, sharing all her information, sharing everything on her mind.  I am a parent to her...

She signed the respondent paperwork it turns out.  On it states we are joint and physical custody.   Next step will be detailing out the custody plans.   A slight relief for me this week, but the custody plan and judgement is key coming up.   I just want my boy to be safe.     

It should now be hard for her to fight for more than 50/50 so I think she won't at this point.  It sounds like her inital agreement is coming together, but we will see.  Now I just need to make sure my boy remains within same school and close to his drs, speech therapist etc.

I want her to be within proximity to ease my boy when we do move apart, but we will see.

Her guy is back.  He ditched her for a week during Valentines Day and all of a sudden called her and talked her back into his web.  He is stringing her along and is likely wanting sex now and sadly she's falling for it.   I can't talk to her about that even though I can see right through everything.    Any negative talk about that situation will result in a split.    I guess I should be glad he's back at least until the judgement is signed.

After doing some reading online, I read in a couple places where psychiatrists rather diagnose Bipolar even if they suspect bpd because apparently insurance drops diagnose bpd patients and its difficult for bpders to get help.

The split and the situational emotions she's going through is what makes me believe it's more bpd than bipolar.   I read on some reddit threads about bpders taking Lamictal and it has done wonders for them apparently.

Thanks guys for your continual replies.

[engiebpd]

I walked into her room and she has a self help notebook.  On it, she wrote some paragraphs about the need to love herself.

I didn't want to go through her stuff but I quickly glanced. 

She has said this many times when we talked "I have to love myself".

I am reading online about bpders and how they hate themselves.  I kind of don't understand what this means.

What do you guys think about why she is writing in her journal or self help book about the need to love herself?   

Is there some kind of guilt going on with her?   Are these signs of suicidal thoughts?

[SaltyDawg]

She has said this many times when we talked "I have to love myself".

This is something that she may have learned in therapy or the psych and has stuck in her mind - this is a good thing for her.  It is likely 'positive self-talk' so she can learn to self-sooth and start to love herself.


I am reading online about bpders and how they hate themselves.  I kind of don't understand what this means.

This may be true, it is more of a shame element.  However, if there is self-love, there could be a narcissistic component to it as well.


Is there some kind of guilt going on with her?   

Possibly, part of the 'shame' component if she is self-aware of the crap she is doing.


Are these signs of suicidal thoughts?

Unlikely.  She is likely trying to do the primary suggestion for self-care.  Self-love is the opposite of suicide.  On all 6 of my wife suicide attempts, my wife indicated to me on the majority of those occasions that she told me that she 'did NOT love' herself.  I know her T's worked on helping her learn 'self love' after the most recent suicide attempt, so, do be on the lookout for anything out of the norm.  The mere fact that you are asking this question tells me that your gut is telling you something is amiss.  Do follow your 'gut' feeling on this.

[Couscous]

I am reading online about bpders and how they hate themselves.  I kind of don't understand what this means.

I thought this did an excellent job explaining it: https://www.mcleanhospital.org/sites/default/files/2021-03/MH-Webinar-Self-loathing-WebinarFINAL.pdf

[Turkish]

A pwBPD has an "inflated false self." A recovered pwBPD on Quora explained it like, "i felt like my emotions and feelings don't matter; therefore, I don't matter and am unlovable." <-- explains easy invalidation.

Now 41 and 9 years gone, my ex posts things on FB, Instagram and recently on LinkedIn that to me are cringeworthy... like stuart smalley auto validations presented as coaching. I'll give her credit for self-work. I'm from a different generation, too. You don't telegraph that stuff or seek public validation. But if it helps her cope, more power to her.

She left several journals when she left and she wrote things then that sounded similar.

I was bullied, often badly, as a kid,  and raised my a mother with BPD. I've been depressed and even felt unlovable. Yet i can't comprehend feeling empty, nor no one liking me that I have to mirror them due to no sense of self (not to say that i haven't engaged in unhealthy coping mechanisms). The whole "self work" thing taken to an extreme i can't understand. She also devours self-improvement books and social media.

I can't help but think that this is how extremely dysfunctional parents raise a child and it's sad.

[Emaanbillah]

Ideally, a diagnosis of BPD or Bipolar would be made using a comprehensive diagnostic interview, plus monitoring of symptoms over a period of weeks/months. I am not a psychiatrist, but my understanding is that the therapeutic effects of Lamictal (for Bipolar Disorder) typically take a few weeks to kick in. Any effects within the first couple days are likely to be placebo.

In Bipolar Disorder, the mood episodes tend to last weeks/months. In episodes of mania there are often very high energy levels, no sleep, rapid talking, delusions of grandeur, and dangerous behavior (drug use, excessive spending, risky sex, etc). And there are typically also episodes of depression.

In BPD, the mood episodes tend to last hours/days, and are often triggered by interpersonal conflict. You might see some of the same self-destructive behaviors (drug use, risky sex, etc). But the behaviors are fueled by different factors. In Bipolar Disorder, the dangerous behaviors are typically very out of character for the person, and only occur during a mood episode. In BPD, the dangerous behaviors are in character for the person, and are often driven by a frantic effort to cope with sadness, anxiety, fear, etc.

You are right that there are no officially approved medications for BPD. Anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medications can sometimes take the edge off of symptoms, but typically the 'core problems' remain. Whereas in Bipolar Disorder, mood stabilizers can be very effective in preventing the mood episodes from coming back.

Pretty well summed up. I would only add that typical cases of mania usually have an element of elevated/irritable mood accompanied with hyperactivity. There is also a cognitive element wherein patient's speech becomes more rapid, unable to be interrupted indicating racing thoughts.

[engiebpd]

Her gaslighting is soo annoying.   I cannot stand it.   I do whatever it takes not to bite or get upset by it.   But it is soo annoying. 

I feel like she knows that her gas lighting gets to my head.   Yesterday she started calling me names, then says I threw a tantrum from it when I just went out to walk the dog.

It sometimes makes me want to use the same tactics on her just to piss her off but I don't.  How do you guys deal with this chronic gaslighting?   

[SaltyDawg]

Her gaslighting is soo annoying.   I cannot stand it.   I do whatever it takes not to bite or get upset by it.   But it is soo annoying. 

I feel like she knows that her gas lighting gets to my head.   Yesterday she started calling me names, then says I threw a tantrum from it when I just went out to walk the dog.

It sometimes makes me want to use the same tactics on her just to piss her off but I don't.  How do you guys deal with this chronic gaslighting?   

For my uBPDw's gaslighting I used a two-pronged approach - the first is to use 'radical acceptance', and the 2nd is to triangulate our couple's therapist to assist in setting up firm boundaries for 'gaslighting' being unacceptable behavior.

I used to be reactive in my abuse to her [e.g. 'use the same tactics on her'] and that only escalates the situation unless you become more crazy than her.

I'll first talk about 'radical acceptance' which can be found here on 'BPD family' under topic 1.06:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0

One of the components of my version of radical acceptance is to pre-forgive, in essence, I know the reality of my situation is that my wife will eventually transgress against me in the form of gas lighting when she is splitting me black. Since I know this to be a fact [based on historical patterns], I know this is going to happen again, as long as I know that she is not deliberately doing this, and I see that she is being triggered by external forces; therefore, I have already forgiven her for what she does not know that she is about to do. That's what makes it radical.

Part of radical acceptance is "Once individuals can accept reality [with forgiveness] while simultaneously not approving of it is when change can be made" and I have added forgiving her in the accepted part of reality, even though I do not approve of her actions and will state as much when it is happening to me.

In essence I have mentally compartmentalized my wife's bad behavior as being attributable to her mental state of mind, and she is 'not guilty by reason of insanity' literally, and that is how I treat it when she splits gaslights me [splitting me black].

Now I am going to talk about setting up boundaries with love - specifically a boundary to limit the amount of emotional/verbal abuse that I am receiving.

The first boundary I set up was against physical violence - if she hits me or kicks me, the authorities will be called which is endorsed by the T - kind of severe, but it is effective.  Only one incident occurred since this boundary was setup.  My wife immediately recognized it and apologized for it, so it was only brought up in couples therapy - as 'self-sabotaging' type behavior and was not escalated to 911.

The second is to establish that emotional/verbal abuse will not be tolerated.  I have shared the issues that my wife was aware of with her T, her T did an excellent job in having my wife modify that behavior.  Now that all of my wife's self-aware issues have been addressed, now the trick is to get her to address the issues that she is not self-aware of.

Right now, I am at a point where all of the 'low hanging' therapy fruit has been picked, now I am going after the higher fruit that my wife is not aware of, and the therapy is getting rougher and more difficult - it may not last.  Currently, this is a stalled work-in-progress.  Because of jury duty, and the T's planned vacation, this has been frustratingly 'on-hold' for the past two weeks where the last session ended with a 'blow up'.

I am being patient, and do want the progress to resume; however, a large part of navigating this is to employ a neutral 3rd party to resolve this issue in the form of our couples therapist.

Every case will be different; however, I have shared what has been working in my specific scenario.  Hopefully this is helpful to you.

Take Care.

[kells76]

Hi engiebpd;

Her gaslighting is soo annoying.   I cannot stand it.   I do whatever it takes not to bite or get upset by it.   But it is soo annoying. 

I feel like she knows that her gas lighting gets to my head.   Yesterday she started calling me names, then says I threw a tantrum from it when I just went out to walk the dog.

It sometimes makes me want to use the same tactics on her just to piss her off but I don't.  How do you guys deal with this chronic gaslighting?   

It is really annoying. It's so tempting to want to "set the record straight", yet it's hard knowing that even a full explanation of the facts won't stick with her and won't make things better. The "not in touch with reality" part of BPD is extremely difficult to deal with -- you could literally show her a video of what happened and that wouldn't matter, because what's most important to her is her desperation to get her extremely deep and intense emotional needs met.

...

What's your timeline right now on divorce/custody? I think I'm remembering that paperwork is in process -- do you have some specific deadlines coming up?

Might be helpful to get some dates on your calendar, so you know that this won't last forever, and you can just buckle down for the next X days for your kid's sake, then be done.

[engiebpd]

First, thank you salty.  I took your advice well and addressed her verbal abuse in therapy and to my surprised she admitted it and apologized.  It's been 4 days since that therapy and she hasn't verbally abused me.   Her gaslighting does seem strange though.  I am reading and understanding that it's not intentionally to hurt me in anyway so I am doing what ever it takes to take a step back and just view it as this (and a friend told me this)  "imagine you're in an insane asylum watching this person locked up and when they see you, they do nothing but constantly berate you and say the meanest things.  You should know that they are "insane" so you shouldn't have any anger towards it.  

This extreme example is what I try to keep in mind when she does this.   But it is awfully hard because she looks like a normal person and it comes every now and then.    

Hi engiebpd;

It is really annoying. It's so tempting to want to "set the record straight", yet it's hard knowing that even a full explanation of the facts won't stick with her and won't make things better. The "not in touch with reality" part of BPD is extremely difficult to deal with -- you could literally show her a video of what happened and that wouldn't matter, because what's most important to her is her desperation to get her extremely deep and intense emotional needs met.

...

What's your timeline right now on divorce/custody? I think I'm remembering that paperwork is in process -- do you have some specific deadlines coming up?

Might be helpful to get some dates on your calendar, so you know that this won't last forever, and you can just buckle down for the next X days for your kid's sake, then be done.

Okay so here's the news on my paperwork.   We have BOTH signed with the mediator regarding the divorce filing at 50/50.  My mediator was absolutely shocked that she signed and sent it in the night it was given to her.   (It was when she was in limerance)

The next step is the financial portion of the mediation process and she has been lagging on this part.   I can tell it's mainly because it looks like a school project and she is putting it off.   But we need this done to then move to the judgement signing, which should seal the deal on everything.  

Here's the problem though,  her bf broke it off and went no contact just as you all warned me about.  When she was in liminerence, she didn't care about anything.   Now all of a sudden she's back helping out with the baby and assisting with cleaning our place.   I'm a little disappointed this happened before the judgement signing but I guess I have to roll with the punches.

My mediator has told me to nudge her and she (mediator) will do it as well as the financial portion is a requirement.  

Tonight I told her that we need to complete this part so that we can be free and "you can be happy without me".   She now is processing that she won't be with this new guy and is now asking me to help support her or give her child support.  PLEASE READ me.    But at least I know it'll be tough for her to get this as she already signed the divorce filing 50/50.    

But it appears she's concerned about her financial situation when we are apart.   I told her I will help her out as much as I can but we need to get this done so we can move on.

She's says "okay" but can I get it in writing that you'll help me.  I said no.   But I will help you in any way I can because you are the mother of my child and I don't want to see you get buried.   I told her that I willl take care of our boy with his sports and everything that he ventures into and I will give her cash if I can.   She kinda doesn't believe me but genuinely I will in the long run.

But the fact that she's now asking for child support concerns me a bit guys.  What you guys wrote earlier in this thread has been so effin dead on.  I still wish she was still in lumerance with this guy.   Now she's actually processing her bad upcoming situation.

I'm going to call the mediator up tomorrow and tell her my concerns now but what do you guys think?  

If she tries to go for more custody to get more child support it'll cost her lawyers fees.  Which doesnt seem to be in her cards.   I am doing what ever it takes to convince her that I have her back after we separate but I don't want to promise her any specific # or figures.  

What do you guys think of my situation now that Mr. Wonderful has left her?  Now all a sudden she wants some custody $...ughhhh

[SaltyDawg]

First, thank you salty.  I took your advice well and addressed her verbal abuse in therapy and to my surprised she admitted it and apologized.  It's been 4 days since that therapy and she hasn't verbally abused me.

You are welcome.  One more word of advice on the reduction of verbal/emotional abuse.  Initially my wife was in compliance once she was stung with the slap of the boundary that our T put in place, and then like a small child, she tested the new boundary, please be prepared for it to return, do not let your guard down with a false sense of security that she actually has stopped this behavior for good.  It will return, it is a matter of when.  Be prepared to re-address this in therapy.  Do not give an inch on this new boundary or it will become meaningless.


Her gaslighting does seem strange though.  I am reading and understanding that it's not intentionally to hurt me in anyway so I am doing what ever it takes to take a step back and just view it as this (and a friend told me this)  "imagine you're in an insane asylum watching this person locked up and when they see you, they do nothing but constantly berate you and say the meanest things.  You should know that they are "insane" so you shouldn't have any anger towards it.  

A pwBPD gaslighting is a 'coping mechanism' for them.  They are telling themselves, and anyone who will listen, this is their distorted [to the point of being false] narrative, as they cannot accept the fact it is they themselves that are doing this terrible behavior.  Video/audio recordings, even if you are the only one reviewing them and it doesn't escalate, will reveal that you are not the crazy one.


This extreme example is what I try to keep in mind when she does this.   But it is awfully hard because she looks like a normal person and it comes every now and then.    
It gets easier to do with time.  I just think to myself, with a neutral face on, "here we go again, she's losing it, she is painting me 'black' and everything coming out of her mouth this point forward is a distortion of her truth".  Basically, I put up a mental shield, and it no longer hurts like it used to.


Congrats on the 50/50 custody arrangement. 

Regarding financial mediation:  I haven't been there, I am watching what you, and others have learned; however, I will share my thoughts...

The financial portion, you may have to do the legwork.  If you do the taxes, it is tax season (here in the US), and if you guys file jointly, offer to do the taxes for her.  Get access to all of her accounts, document everything (she has in those accounts if you can), figure out her income vs yours, if it is comparable, then likely no alimony/child support.

However, if there is a difference between your incomes, I am assuming you are making significantly more than she is.  Instead of paying her directly, consider putting this in writing, that you will pay for your child's educational expenses, your child's clothing, setting up a 529 college plan, etc. that way you take care of your child, and keep the $$$'s out of her impulsive hands and you know the money is spent on your child and not her vices to the detriment of your child and with the college plan you get the tax benefits.

If she refuses, perhaps considering sweetening the deal with paying for security deposit and 1+ months worth of rent, a one time payment, so she will not be a burden do you when you re-enter the dating scene some time after the divorce.  Or consider putting in writing that you will give her cash up to a time period mutually agreed upon.  Whatever your agreement is, make sure that it is limited and won't balloon with COLA and other unforeseen expenses.  I did something similar for my uBPD/NPDexgf and I had no bio kids with her.


She kinda doesn't believe me but genuinely I will in the long run.

I know this is the way you feel now; however, if and when you re-enter the dating scene paying money to your ex may be perceived in a negative light by the new gf unless it is court ordered.  However, if you ensure that all of the monies are directed to your son this will be seen more positively.  The new gf, who us now my uBPDw, shut down such support to the uBPD/NPDexgf and was very upset when I paid the uBPD/NPDexgf's bail when her uBPD behavior landed her there, so her bio kids wouldn't suffer.

I know you are a caretaker, otherwise you wouldn't make those financial offers.  However, you need to look out for your best interest, and that means limiting your losses in this situation, and minimizing your financial obligations moving forward.

For the rest of the comments, I will defer to FD as he has a wealth of information.

Take care with self-care.

[kells76]

But it appears she's concerned about her financial situation when we are apart.   I told her I will help her out as much as I can but we need to get this done so we can move on.

She's says "okay" but can I get it in writing that you'll help me.  I said no.   But I will help you in any way I can because you are the mother of my child and I don't want to see you get buried.   I told her that I willl take care of our boy with his sports and everything that he ventures into and I will give her cash if I can.   She kinda doesn't believe me but genuinely I will in the long run.

I think I'm seeing some leverage here.

If you need to wrap up the financial side of mediation, and she's dragging her feet, and you've already decided that you'd be OK with covering sports fees, and she wants that in writing --

(check with your L first, and if your L says OK, then)

offer to her you will include in writing something like "engiebpd will cover 100% of Little Engiebpd's sports and/or extracurricular fees, provided the sports/extracurriculars are agreed upon by both parents in writing or email, until Little Engiebpd reaches age 18 or graduates from high school, whichever comes later. engiebpd will pay the fees directly to the school or organization." (make sure to run whatever wording you use past your L, so you don't get stuck with bad verbiage/loopholes)

as long as she signs by Day/Date. If she doesn't sign by Day/Date then that will not be included in the deal in writing.

Might be a win-win.

[ForeverDad]

Also, school will be an issue... who will be responsible for school?  Sounds like he is kindergarten age.  Don't get excluded from school.  And if you end up paying some or all school bills, make sure you are only liable for typical public school expenses.  Why?  One dad here agreed to pay all school expenses and then the mother surprised him by enrolling the kid in a private school with predictably high tuition fees.  The court told dad, "You agreed to pay for school expenses so pay them!"

[engiebpd]

Hi All,

Based on the things I've been telling you about my ex unpbd ( but diagnosed bipolar),   it seems you guys suspect that I am her favorite person since she is emotionally opened to me about her personal life and also she splits on me.

I am trying to figure out still if this is true or if she is trying to be nice to me for a reason.   Reasons maybe that I am able to care for our son while she's out or if maybe it could be due to just her playing a role until the divorce finalizes.


If she is ill, I can see favorites person being possible.   But all of a sudden, she has been more nicer to me ever since her affair lover and the guy she's dating has been less committed.   

It's hard for me to distinguish.   

I saw a YouTube video where a girl said its possible to have a favorite person and also a lover as well.   It sounds like I may be in this situation and then I am switch to the main person since her dating life is not all she thought it would he so far...

Am I her "favorite" person?   Sometimes I don't think I am

[ForeverDad]

Since you share children, it may be that you'll always be on her back burner simmering just in case (a stove analogy) for all the times her other life hits a speed bump.

So her perception of you may vary from evil incarnate to a renewed love.  One explanation is that BPD behaviors may moderate with distance apart.  That's why you being closer to her in a marriage faced the full brunt of them while those on the periphery of her life merely noticed something 'off' about her with occasional flare ups.

[engiebpd]

Goodness Foreverdad, you seem to nail it on the spot.  It sure does seem that way. She has mentioned that she thinks we will be closer and better when we are apart - less fighting, less toxic enviroment, good friends "coparenting partners"

It's as if she is aware of something.   She has been drastically nicer right now ever since our last counseling session where she apologized for being abusive.  But I am unsure of anything because she has been putting off on the financial documents of the mediation.  Also, her affair partner blocked her # but calls her middle of the night occasionally but she doesn't pick up.  She says she calls him the next morning but her # is still blocked.  Then she calls him from a restricted # and he doesn't pick up.   -still amazes me that she tells me all these things.

She tries to come up with a positive reason why that's happening and it annoys me.  She says "I think he still loves me and misses me which is why he calls me middle of the night"

Imo he's just tugging on the string and is not picking up normal hours because he is probably still in a relationship with his babymomma but who knows.  Its all speculatio at this point and I don't even have the time to think about this stuff and told her I don't want to hear about this guy again. .  But she sometimes wants my opinion on the matter...so weird and off indeed.

 So the 2nd guy she was dating since affair partner has been out of the picture (she says she's not physically attractedto him but he makes good $), she pushed him out a little recently because he's also dating someone else and she didnt like that and got into an argument with him about it.    He says he has been hanging out with the other girl for 9 months and can't just throw her out for my ex wife since he only been seeing my ex for 3 weeks or so.   So she's in a limbo with no victims in hand - and I can't tell if this is why she has been nicer to me.

She is likely talking to family and they are worried about the mediation process perhaps - they don't know about her affair and pregnancy.   I think they only believe she dislikes me for not being a "loving & affectionate enough husband" and whatever she is saying about me.  But they are going to support her through this. 

So I'm still not sure of the future at this point and I still have a little bit of anxiety.  I need the financial documents submitted to the mediator and then proceed to the judgement with both of us signed for anything to clear.   

Though the mediator did tell me that the divorce has been filed and the 6 month clock has been started.  That's one relief. 

I have to stick around with her until October and I am still a little nervous about our 3 year old who will be about 3.5 when we do separate in different locations.

[Couscous]

Why do you have to stick around if you have already come to an agreement on custody? You can also get temporary orders if need be.

[ForeverDad]

Perhaps you can start a new topic (thread) focusing on status of parenting your child, about 3 years old now.

She's willing to do 50/50 parenting, on paper at least.  (Around here that's a bit surprising since many Borderline mothers are very possessive of their children, some fanatically so.)

Historically, who has done the most parenting thus far?  I ask because there is a relatively small percentage of mothers that are more concerned about their adult relationships than with parenting their children.  You don't speak much of the actual parenting so I'm curious.  If she is more preoccupied with her adult life then after the divorce she may gift away even more of her parenting.  Considering that her life is disordered and surely would impact the child to some extent, that's not a bad thing for you to shoulder more of parenting responsibilities.

[engiebpd]

We have the divorce filings signed and on it had a custody order sheet with 50/50 that she signed.

But my mediator and some family attorney advisors said that the judgement orders is what matters most and said I shouldn't make a move before that gets signed.    We both need to turn in financial  paperwork and then it gets process and then we move towards signing the judgement.  At this point, I've turned mine in and she has been delaying.   It looks like it's because she's talking to family or someone about the situation.  She might be worried because she makes a lot of cash tips that she may be storing in another bank.

From my understanding so far, the divorce filings is strong for me but might not be the nail in the coffin yet?

I've been documenting and taking pictures with my care for the baby m-w and Saturday and shared Sundays.   we also have daycare m-f.  There are many times where she would make excuses on her days and asks me to care for him.   I also documented nights she has gone out late, stayed out late to party etc.  

I take pictures of my baby everywhere I take him pretty much.

[engiebpd]

She also may not want to reveal the way she spends her money.  Which has been on botox, lip injection and $300 on her nails every week.  

Also Foreverdad,  according to my family and close friends who are much wiser than me, they said she's behaving as if she may leave the baby as well.   The signs according to them are when she was in lala land with affair partner.  She completely neglected the baby for like 2-3 week period and did 0 chores.   They believe that when she actually lives by herself or if she has a new bf, the baby may become too much for her to handle and she may just throw him off more to me.

I have read some articles of borderline mothers leaving their children but I guess it's too early to tell right now.

She has not taken the baby anywhere fun especially without me because I can tell it will be too much for her to handle. 

Lately she has been good to the baby at home but has not taken him to anywhere including the mall ever since our separation.  She's been telling me to go with her and the baby to an amusement park but I've said no and that she can just take the baby.  She hasn't yet.

[Turkish]

Keep doing what you're doing. My ex acted very much like your stbxw, childish, neglecting the kids (phoning it in as a mother), staying out late... unless she contests it, the court is likely to sign off, happy not to have you two show up in front of a judge.

I only called her out once when she returned from a tryst at 5AM. Really? While I'm home with our 1 and 3 year old? She looked like a scolded child.

It may be frustrating and painful to see her act like a "teen mom" as I used to think. Yet it isn't your job to teach her Mothering. Get that legal stipulation signed by her and the court and go from there. If she's holding up on financial disclosures, see if you can do that later (I don't know) after securing custody.

FWIW, my ex did better patenting after she moved out, and much better after she divorced her Beau though that took a few more years.

[ForeverDad]

Please, let us encourage you and lend you strength.  Right now life is distressing and surely topsy turvy.  Here's a quote from my quotable quotes post over in "Stump the Experts (off topic)" board.

Valerie Bowman, "The Untamed Earl", chapter 3, page 33
Owen..."Yes, but apparently, my father has decided that I must be the martyr who marries the chit."
"She does have an impeccable lineage," Claringdon said.
Owen arched a brow at him. "So does my horse. I don't want to marry it."

Valerie Bowman, "Kiss Me at Christmas", chapter 20, pages 140-141
"When I was a child, I asked my mother whom I should marry one day. ...
'My girl,' she said, 'It's quite simple. You must marry the man you cannot live without.' "

Some day you will come across a mentally healthy woman who will be "someone you cannot live without".  Until that time focus on getting through this rough patch, being a reasonably good parent and taking care of yourself!

[engiebpd]

OK so her affair partner is back and apparently wants her to be exclusive.   Since she is in limerance with this guy, she dropped the other guy she was seeing.

She had a bunch of good feelings over the weekend.    I am unsure if it's due to this guy being back but she has been back to being contemptuous with me.   This occurred at the beginning of our separation when this guy loved bomb her and kept promising some kind of future with her so it led to her breaking up with me.

She's back to heavy emasculation comments,  immitates and exaggerates my voice and saying I sound like a girl.  Is there coincidence that this pattern is back because the affair partner is back?   It's some kind of superior position.

On new years when she broke it off, I saw these behaviors. Then when the affair guy started to distant from her, she became nicer which led me to believe our amicable agreeement divorce and coparenting relationship was genuine.  

Now I am having suspicions and back to being unsure of what's to come.   She has been avoiding doing the financial step in the mediation divorce process.   My family attorney said that I may just need to let it play out and go from there.

I also want to add that i have been more friendly and for a few weeks prior to her being contemptuous.  Im trying to showher i want us to have a good coparenting relationship as we finish out our lease.  After some time of this, she would ask me to take hee to work out and eventually wants to go somewhere like an amusement park with the baby.   I avoid the amusementpark as i try to avoid anythingg that puts me in a lock with her for a prolongue period of time.  Past couple days, I've been trying to be nice but stay short with her.   She came home from work telling me she told the affair bf that she gets uneasy again that he doesn't spend much time with her.   So she tells me "he's so sweet because he says he's going to work less and have other employees take over some of his roles so he can spend more time with her".   

I wonder if she is getting the sense that I am pulling away even more because of her increase in verbal abuse.   It looks like she needs someone there emotionally and I was kind of the crutch for her and now that crutch is breaking a way, is she now trying to manpulate her affair partner to spend more time with her?