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Author Topic: My BPD ex tried to make me jealous, I didn't react and then she blocked me. Why?  (Read 2577 times)
NorthernCreature

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« on: February 02, 2023, 05:08:50 PM »

Short Story And Question:

I am trying to understand my BPD ex, who is still my wife...

After I went LC for 7 days with my BPD ex, she made a provokativ WhatsApp status with our song, added love emojis, her name and the name of a possible new BF. She blocked me as I didn't react. What does that mean? It's a bluff or negative charm?

Too Long To Read Version:

So, my BPD wife (but now ex) went with me to court due to her temporary restraining order. I didn't fight it, at court I told everyone that I already moved out and that I am just here to claim a fair deadline to pickup bulky stuff, and that I oppose the ridiculous things written in her lawyers order. The things she made up.

I didn't even want to argue with her or her lawyer, just telling my view if they bring the ridiculous things up, which happened a few times but I always got my way back to my main point "She wants me to move out, I gonna move out, with a fair deadline to pick bulky things up". Previously to the court date, there still have been a lot of mixed signals, which made me contact her, or she contacted me. It alternated who started the contact. But I showed interest to reconcile and have been the main driver, as she always split me back to black. I do remember for example when she called me for 45 mins, to ask me how I'd imagine to get together again, being very curious, and in another moment splitting me back again, to catastrophize "Things won't work, it'll be all bad".

We're married and I wanted to keep the promises I gave her during marriage, namely, to not give up when something hits the fan. She is also pregnant and we planned the baby. And overall, apart from "micro splitting" or "micro push`n`pulling", we've had a wonderful time until she discarded me. Splitting me back and forth before the major split, it seemed like communicating would still make sense, and splitting me white for short moments after the discard made me believe that too... Inconsistency, mixed signals, I thought she wants this communication. But at some point, she went fully psychotic and she painted me pitch black. I became the devil. It was a culture shock to feel like you had done everything right, with good intentions, but someone who claimed to love you, was not thinking that you're the worst person on this planet. We still contacted each other, but it turned out she just wanted to devalue me further. I was only in defense mode, if at all, I just made small remarks during my defence, like adding in WhatsApp "I'd prefer reconciliation and think it's possible, but I don't want to fight with you". Before court date, we both went silent...

So, it was ridiculous when her lawyer told me to stop contacting her as my wife thinks I am stalking her. I just thought WTF..? Especially, since I gave her a deadline a week earlier when she contacted me to keep devaluing me... I told her, if we go to court and I am officially moved out (freely, with me not fighting to stay), I gonna reduce contact to the minimum... wich would be talking about the baby that arrives this year or buerocratic stuff but no more. That's literally me saying... if this is over, we will have LOW contact. I told her lawyer this clearly. It was bluffing as I still want her, but I kept my "promise"...

Now to the question... after the court appointment, I went LC, I'd rather say NC... I had zero interest to contact her and was burned out. If at all, I told myself, I'd just reply to her, short and neutral. But I didn't expect that she would contact me as she clearly said at court that she wants no more contact. But what happened? Out of 7 days, she contacted me 5 of them via whatsapp... with ridiculous reasons, like askinged me for 12 Euro... or giving me her bank details (she knows I have hers as we constantly send each other money when we were together), to send her the remaining rental payment that would be due 10 days later and other ridiculous reasons she started contact... I don't mention all here... it was minor stuff but I replied neutral and VERY short, getting out of conversation as fast as possible to not get into circle arguments with her again, or letting her devalue me again.

That confused her maybe? It appeared like she felt for the first time what breakup means as I previously always was open to communicate. No more. Day 6 and 7 there was no contact from her side... like as if she was confused...

And then, she posted something on WhatsApp (status) at day 8... a melting smiley, a heart emoji and a "don't tell anyone" smiley with the finger in front of the smiley mouth... translated: I am melting, getting in love, but don't tell!. I didn't react to this... I didn't even click on it but to be honest, I was curious and screenshotted and enlarged it... that's how I knew.

A day later, she upped the ante and posted a status [her name] + [name of a dude] with several love emojis and a provokation that hit my heart heavily... below it, OUR song... our couple or love song. The song we have chosen for our relationship... now connected with her and someone else. THAT is how you hurt someone. I got a mental breakdown, and ironically that prevented me to react to this provokation. And 5 hours later, I checked WhatsApp and noticed she blocked me.

I communicated with my closest circle. Everyone including my sister questioned it... the name of the guy is real, we know him from the district but a week has passed and they are not seen together... in fact, my mother saw him with his GF hand in hand, and his daughter a week prior to her provokative status.. there are a ton of things that speak against it... but you never know...

But I do indeed wonder... is she bluffing? Did she make up this to get my reaction?

Also, why did she block me 5 hours later when she realized I didn't react? I am blocked since 5 days since then... not the first time we've had 5 days blocking from her side... but 5 days was usually the max. Have been blocked and unblocked a ton of times in the past (even blocking me and unblocking me several times during the same day)... this time I am not sure. Maybe she will block me longer. I just don't understand what is going on in her mind? Why would she block me? What is her point to make me jelious or hurt me?

If this is a bluff, if she wants my attention or if she want to reconcile... making me jelious, hurting me is not the best method to do so... Is she ashamed how much things she destroyed? Does she want me to keep chasing her? Or is it a trick to get me into trouble with her lawyer, with her telling him "See, he is still contacting me" if I fell for it? I am so confused.

What do you guys think?

Someone I don't believe that she is together with the guy she mentioned. She is only seen alone with her son. The remaining time she seems to isolate herself at her apartment or she is visiting her mother several hours per day (no I am not stalking, but imagine three apartment blocks in a row, and me in the middle... I am at my moms home until I find an apartment. But sitting on my notebook near the window, I sadly see people outside)... talking about her mother, she always intermeddled to the point that it always felt like I married her mother and not my wife.

Her mother always appeared like a full-blown narc and caused a lot of trouble to get her daughter to break up with me. She went even so far to tell my wife "If you stay together, your son will never visit me again". They both have a strange black and white relationship too... either contact or no contact. Either daughter mother love or daughter mother hate. But my wife was much more stable when they didn't have contact. Her mother has now full control again.. my wife has never been independent, because her mother didn't let her loose, living and learning to be independent like all of us. Almost 30 years old, she didn't learn a lot of things. Be it financial things, or cooking for herself and her son... Truth be told, she has other skills, so we learned things from each other. But my part was cooking for her and her son and it appeared like good family life for quite a while, and I also tried to cook with them together, which was fun. Now that I am not there anymore, I am replaced by her mother... they go eat there. She is constantly there... I do either see it from the window, or people say that. So, while that guy she mentioned in the status exists, it seems unlikely that they are together. She is pregnant in 7th month, has a large tattoo of my name on her arm... would he be ok with that? Not to mention that he has a GF.

As said, you never know... but if that is the case that she is not together with this guy, what is the whole point of her status post that did hurt me?

By the way... call me crazy... but YES... I want her back. And I want to see my baby grow up too.
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Woolspinner2000
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2023, 08:05:17 PM »

Hi NorthernCreatureWelcome new member (click to insert in post)

Welcome! I read both versions of your story (thank you for sharing your heartache with us). Man, some tough stuff, and no consistency for you to even have a moment to catch your breath it seems.

For a pwBPD, they desperately struggle to be able to stabilize. As strange as it may seem, quite often they self soothe through disorder. My mom was an uBPD  and I lived in and with disorder just like you are. It's hard to survive that, both emotionally and physically.

It sounds as if you do have some good support around you. What types of things are you doing for your own self care during this tumultuous time? Have you thought about reaching out to a counselor?

I'm sure others will be along soon to greet you. Keep hanging in there.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Wools

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There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind.  -C.S. Lewis
NorthernCreature

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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2023, 08:34:12 AM »

Thank you Woolspinner,

Yes, the inconsistency makes me even believe that she might have bluffed with her recent status post. Where it gets more consistent now is that she now broke a blocking record for the first time. She never had me blocked longer than 5 days. But we're at day 6 now. Whatever reaction the wanted from me with the provokative WhatsApp status, it must have upset her that she didn't get my reaction. If she wants me back, she could just speak with me... I am open for that. But maybe she just wanted negative reaction, or any kind of attention. I don't know. I just hope that she doesn't feel abandoned now.

Excerpt
What types of things are you doing for your own self care during this tumultuous time?

Honestly? Not much. Since I had to leave our apartment, I am now living at my moms apartment for a while. I am stuck as the apartment market is quite bad at the moment. I feel depressed every day... I sit here and do nothing. At least I found some energy now to do things on the computer but it's mostly reading about BPD and watching BPD videos. I'm literally stuck.

Before I met my wife, I've been an active person. Photographing in nature, going jogging 3 times a week and what not. My wife isolated me from friends, my interests and later even from my family (this happened more recently before the major discard). Now I feel empty... communicated with some close friends and they noticed but are not mad at me. Got some support from close friends and family... but I think I am severely depressed. Not just that, I have vivid dreams about my wife, not understanding how things fit together... Just today it felt like I haven't slept... I did, but it's a very strange kind of sleep... with vivid movies running in my head. For example today, I slept and vividly thought/dreamed (I truly don't know if these are thoughts or dreams) of events that happened 3 days before the major discard... how she made me feel good that day, how we played on the couch (she put her hair into my face as a mustache, I even have photos of this, we both smiled and laughed)... I regularly have the things that happened before the discard running through my head during nights... the contrast is heavy... it was all perfect except for the mini splits we had once in a while as she got fear of abandonment where I constantly promised to be always loyal to her.

The contrast just kicks me... even days before the discard it felt all good... it was perfect. Cuddling, deciding for a name for our daughter that will be soon born... all that with candle light. It's so hard. I wish she would come back... but now I am already blocked for 6 days.
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SaltyDawg
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2023, 03:58:22 PM »

Welcome to BPD Family,

Pregnancy = more hormones = increased irrational behavior.

I don't know how it is in Europe; however, you probably want to get some legal advice on the custody of your upcoming child if she chooses to leave you. 

I know you want to be with her; however, that is not your choice alone. 

If you haven't already, seek out a therapist, to sort out your own feelings.

Practice self-care, whatever, that looks like for you [exercise, reading, hot shower, etc. whatever it takes to make yourself feel good].

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Woolspinner2000
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2023, 04:22:57 PM »

Hi again NorthernCreature,

Thank you for your response. It's good that you're here on the board where others have been through or are going through similar circumstances.  The connection can be helpful during this time of so much transition.  Thanks for letting us be a part of your life right now.

Excerpt
She never had me blocked longer than 5 days. But we're at day 6 now. 

I know you're hopeful right now, that she'll respond, that she'll come back, that she'll be so many of the good things once again. I hope so too. Knowing what we do about a pwBPD, whether any of those hopes come to pass or not, we know there are and will be great challenges in a relationship with a pwBPD. Those are the things I'd encourage you to prepare for and strengthen yourself for, so that you'll be ready no matter what.

That self care I asked about,

Excerpt
. I feel depressed every day... I sit here and do nothing. At least I found some energy now to do things on the computer but it's mostly reading about BPD and watching BPD videos. I'm literally stuck. 

It's okay that you're depressed right now. Anyone would be given the recent events in your life. I'd love to see you do something outside, especially since you have enjoyed that in the past. How about a 15-30 minute walk this weekend? Tell me about your walk when you can. Just breathe.

Excerpt
...I have vivid dreams

Me too. They're so disturbing and mine are emotionally draining. The fact that you're sharing here will help you to process some of the emotional pain your brain is telling you all about.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Wools
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There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind.  -C.S. Lewis
NorthernCreature

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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2023, 07:36:49 PM »

Welcome to BPD Family,

Pregnancy = more hormones = increased irrational behavior.


Yes, friends told me the things between them and their wifes haven't been easy during their pregnancies. I knew my wife had mental issues, but before pregnancy if affected me only with "mini splits" or "almost discards"... it was her having strong fears of abandonment. I always managed it by taking her serious and telling her my valued, including loyality... but her abandonment fears popped up once in a while again. Things got really traction when we got her pregnant... that's when mini/micro splitting started to occur with more dangerous effects on our relationship, like really making stuff up... but the intervals were still easy to manage.. (if it happens once a month, once a week) until it sped up to weekly and daily splitting. It looked like pregnancy really made her uBPD go into overdrive mode (uBPD because... I think she is BPD and her therapist is on that route now too).

Welcome to BPD Family,

I don't know how it is in Europe; however, you probably want to get some legal advice on the custody of your upcoming child if she chooses to leave you. 


Talked with my lawyer. He knows a lot about my wife since we prepared each other to fight the ridiculous stories in her temporary restraining order related to the apartment. So, after the case I asked him questions related to the future and custody. He said childs of BPD mothers don't have it easy, and took my question serious... but he said the issue is that psychological harm is not as visible as physical harm... so, it's usually hard to prove at court. There is confidentiality in Germany... which means, her therapist doesn't have to speak at court, in fact, would never do so (exception serious crimes/harm maybe).

Then my lawyer said that some try the route of family assesment, proving educational ability of both parties. However, in Germany you can not force a person to participate in assesments, meaning, her lawyer would tell her "Do not participate". My lawyer told me not to have too high hopes to get custody. Unless there is blatant, serious and provable child endangerment, there is zero chance. While psychological harm can be serious damage, it's difficult to prove in most cases... unless schools, doctors notice something and so.


I know you're hopeful right now, that she'll respond, that she'll come back, that she'll be so many of the good things once again. I hope so too. Knowing what we do about a pwBPD, whether any of those hopes come to pass or not, we know there are and will be great challenges in a relationship with a pwBPD. Those are the things I'd encourage you to prepare for and strengthen yourself for, so that you'll be ready no matter what.

That self care I asked about,

Yes, currently I am so battered that a possible "positive charm" would be timed badly. It's probably better that she charmed me negatively a week ago with the whole WhatsApp status. Currently I am still busy asking myself if it was a bluff or not. There have been days where I totally questioned that she is together with the guy... today was a day where I felt like it might be true. But that flipped until I went through a pro and con list in my head... it was 7 points for the story to be true and 3 points against it.
Doesn't mean that I am not panicking... I don't want this to be true. I hope she is just bluffing. I still try to understand why she would block me... if she would want to hurt me further, she could have me unblocked and post more things like photos of them for maximum damage... she could have done it right from the beginning instead of using text and emojis... so, why no photo of them? That and so much more speaks against the story. If she is mad at me, and would want to hurt me much more, she could keep me unblocked and share her new ideolization phase. Maybe this is just the calm before the storm and it'll happen? Ughh..


It's okay that you're depressed right now. Anyone would be given the recent events in your life. I'd love to see you do something outside, especially since you have enjoyed that in the past. How about a 15-30 minute walk this weekend? Tell me about your walk when you can. Just breathe.

When I leave the apartment block section of my mother, I can look right at the apartment block of my wife, where we lived together. And then there is an apartment block behind my mother where my wife's mother lives. So, I am basically sandwiched... always possible to run into my wife. Ironically, everyone says that she isolated herself too... at max, she seems to visit her mother and I sometimes see that from my desk when I look out of the window...

I am not exactly afraid to go outside but it hurts to see her if I do.. and if I don't, it hurts to see her apartment windows, or the entire apartment block. I went shopping one day with my mother, on the way to the stores, everything reminded me of my marriage... same route my wife and me walked... same stores.. I had to surpress my tears, but it broke out when we left the mall.

Since then, I mostly just go outside to bring the trash to the trash containers. My mother is concerned that I fall back into deep depression and anxiety (I battled with that 10 years ago, but became healthy again with lots of activity the last 10 years).

Not questioning what you suggest... I do agree, I should start somewhere.. maybe I try this on Sunday.

Right now, I just hope my wife unblocks me like she did in the past. I just hope for something positive to happen... like a positive text or something.
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SaltyDawg
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2023, 08:48:18 PM »

I'm with Wools, do something outside for roughly half an hour.  I enjoy hikes/walk/bike ride in nature settings - I have an e-bike that is mountain capable, and ride it on that - it gets me out in the elements, in nature, and it takes my mind away from all of the negativity.

Self-Care is the number one thing you can do for yourself, it took me 21 years of a relationship to figure that one out.

Take Care.
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Turkish
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2023, 10:33:58 PM »

Is the TRO in force? If it is, isn't she violating it? You would be also.
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NorthernCreature

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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2023, 06:04:55 AM »

Is the TRO in force? If it is, isn't she violating it? You would be also.

Maybe I used the wrong vocabulary? I don't know how to translate these law related things... is it called interim disposal maybe?

I try to explain it...

She went to her lawyer who contacted the court. I got some kind of "court" express letter with her statements. Lots of made up stuff in it, but the main point was to get me out of the apartment as soon as possible. I got a one week deadline to reply to the court. She basically forced me to get a lawyer as well, instead of giving me the time to look for an apartment in a desolate housing market.

My focus would have been to find an apartment, but now my focused shifted to get a lawyer and wait for the court date to fight her made up stuff. My stepson liked me a lot but she said he would have twitches/tremor because of me... the reality is that he got these symptoms 3 months earlier when everything was good between her and me. It started when she told her son that her ex (who isn't even his father) could kidnap him from school and that he should stay wary at all times.

She argued that we had a loud argument one morning in front of his son, and that he always does notice our arguments. She made distorted claims that I said to her "My little psycho girl" in front of her son. The reality is, that she was speaking of a morning where her son was at school. We had a quit argument (we've actually have never been very loud)... she was threatening me with breakup as she always had done at the end when she wanted to win an argument. Thus, I told her that morning "It's mad that you are always taking away my security in this relationship by threatening me with breakup". She ran away downstairs and walked away to her mother. In her head I told her "my little psycho girl"... not sure how she was able to make this up.

The story is even "funnier", later the day she truly broke up. It happened in the late afternoon. Like I mentioned previously, her mother always intermeddled into our personal stuff... and my wife always went with her mothers opinion about things. She basically had no opinion unless her mother had one, and then it was the one and only way to do things... that afternoon I tried to convince her of my opinion. I've done a lot of compromises in the past, in fact I often even went with how she wanted to decide (for peace). But that afternoon I told her calmy that I feel like we should decide important stuff together as a married couple and not with family members. Her son was in the same room, but I didn't see an issue to make my statement.

That critique made her mad. She got loud and told me not to annoy her and then she appeared paranoid and asked me "What will happen next, will you beat me?". I was baffled and replied "Why do you say that? I would never do!"... to which she replied "Maybe you need a slap in the face". All that in front of her son. That's when I realized, this time her devaluation/split is different... she appeared extremely psychotic. I thought it would be a joke and left the room and went to the kitchen... but it got worse. She locked the living room as if I would be dangerous... and she called the police.

We always used just one duvet together, it was very cuddly. But she told me previously that day that she doesn't allow me to use the Duvet and wouldn't want to sleep in the same bed. So, when she called the police, I called my mother to bring me a duvet. My mother arrived and I went downstairs, that's when the police arrived too. They talked with me, I was afraid my wife would tell them that I beat her or something. One of the officers asked me if my wife would be in therapy, I told him a little bit and he said they have these cases quite often. They went upstairs and talked with my wife. My wife later told me that they have been very mad at her. I thought they were friendly but I assume they communicated with her differently as she might still have raged. The result was, the police didn't know why they were called. But they told me my wife wants to stick with the breakup.

We did avoid each other the remaining afternoon. Still broken up, my wife appeared like she calmed down, we started to talk in the living room after her son went to bed. My wife said "I want to watch a movie" but she didn't look like she wanted to reconcile and I was burned out to chase for that outcome. I offered her that we continue watch our series on Amazon, each of us on a couch part. She agreed. Went through one episode and then she asked me to turn off the TV as she is tired. It was 7pm and I was not tired. We don't have a TV in the bedroom, so I thought it would be ok if I stay in the living room if she wanted to sleep. Well, how wrong I was... she took the TV and put it in another room so that I can't watch TV in the living room. Then she called her mother who arrived in 10 minutes to tell me, a grown men, in the living room of my wife and me, to go to sleep at 8pm for the peace... I calmly replied "It's 8pm, I am not tired and I won't argue with you further"... she almost stuf up, as if she wanted to attack me but sat down again. When she went away, my wife went to bed in the bedroom and I was in the living room and rotated my PC screen to the couch so that I can keep watching something on Amazon.

I woke up next morning... my wife started to empty rooms. Dismantled the bed in the bedroom, removed everything from the floort. Emptied our living room, at least the things she could carry down. I asked what she is doing and she replied "I am moving out and it makes me sick that you don't help a pregnant women to move out". Then she called the landlord. I contacted the landlord via email and they told me my wife indeed asked for a partial termination of the contract (we've been both in the contract). My wife went to her mother for some days and I went to mine. Occasionally I went into our apartment and noticed that my wife had removed more and more stuff, also the bulky stuff like the couch... at day 4, the apartment was entirely empty with only my stuff remaining (as I moved in, that was not much). I am not sure where she and her helpers did store everything but I assumed she would indeed move out... then I got a surprise at day 5...  the couch and other things were back.. with each day she brought stuff back, probably realized that her impulsive action wasn't thought out well.

At some point, she didn't let me into our apartment anymore by having the keys stuck on the other side and so on. I had to call the police to get important stuff out... she claimed her lawyer said that I am not allowed to enter the apartment anymore. I told her a few times "This is not how it works, your lawyer is not a judge... I got a court mail and I do now get a lawyer too, until then I can enter our apartment for sure"... police told her I can enter 24/7, she disagreed and showed them the court letter... the police officer was confused and said "Huh, this just means your husband has 10 days to reply and then court will make an appointment for you both". My wife got loud and the officers told her "We could remove you right now, please stay calm". I could go on and on...

She and her lawyer added more and more to the case... totally fantasy stuff. Like I threw her out of the apartment (laugh, while I couldn't get in, and while she impulsively moved out without even having a new apartment)... I could write a massive list of things she made up in her fantasy. Not just the lawyer letter, but what I heard at court was entire fantasy... my lawyer said previously "If you just want a deadline to get out your bulk stuff, don't argue unless they keep going"... as said, we argued a bit here and there about her fantasy world, but we somewhat managed it to get to the main point... I leave the apartment freely, (I already did, but I mean on paper), with a fair deadline. And if she doesn't want to reconcile, it's ok... then we keep LC.

So, the TRO was about who gets the apartment until divorce. And I gave up my rights to stay,... I did that freely. But her lawyer did threat me that he could make a TRO (stalking) against me in case I keep contacting my wife... which was a ridiculous threat as she contacted me equally often since I slept at my mothers home. That's when the other stuff started that I mentioned at the beginning. I didn't contact her anymore but she contacted me, until she blocked me when I didn't react to the mentioned provokation.






« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 06:56:53 AM by NorthernCreature » Logged
SaltyDawg
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2023, 01:02:05 AM »

NorthernCreature,

Follow the advice of your attorney.

Also, if possible get yourself a therapist, so you can sort out your emotions.

You know that she is mentally unstable, so you need to protect yourself with documentation.  Use your cell phone to record her irrational outbursts if possible, or purchase a body camera to do this.

It is unfortunate that she is kicking you out.  Fortunately you can stay with your mother for a short while while you find a new place to live.

Keep your interaction with her BIFF [Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm] https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0 record everything.  You want to be seen as rational, and whatever she does is her business.

My 1st serious girlfriend from the late 1980s to the late 1990's was diagnosed with A.D.D.  and her mother too always intermeddled into our personal stuff - she did nothing without her mother's approval.  I was engaged to be married and called it off for that and other reasons.  Her mother didn't like me, and told her to leave me, and she did.  She was a sweet girl, but could not think for herself.

With regards to the comments she is asking of you with regards to 'beating her' - it sounds like she want to make you look like the violent one.  Do not play into her manipulation of the situation, ask your attorney on this one too.

I hope you documented the removing of furniture and its reappearance and then locking you out of the apartment.  Get a statement from your landlord too on this.  The more information your attorney has the better.  If you missed it, do it the next time she does this.

Talk to the police as well, when you are there recovering your property.  Get as much documentation as you can.  I know the laws are different in Germany than where I live, your attorney would be the best one to ask.

Keep all of the texts and phone calls she does, and yours too [learn how to do screen shots on your phone] especially if it is an app that doesn't keep the texts or calls.

Take care, and good luck.

---- Same message in German ----

Nördliche Kreatur,

Befolgen Sie den Rat Ihres Anwalts.

Holen Sie sich nach Möglichkeit auch einen Therapeuten, damit Sie Ihre Emotionen sortieren können.

Sie wissen, dass sie psychisch instabil ist, also müssen Sie sich mit Dokumenten schützen. Verwenden Sie nach Möglichkeit Ihr Handy, um ihre irrationalen Ausbrüche aufzuzeichnen, oder kaufen Sie sich dafür eine Körperkamera.

Sie schmeißt dich raus Zum Glück kannst du eine Weile bei deiner Mutter bleiben, während du dir eine neue Wohnung suchst.

Erfassen und zeichnen Sie Ihre Interaktion mit ihr auf. Verwenden Sie bei der Kommunikation das B.I.F.F. [kurz, informativ, freundlich, bestimmt] https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0. Du willst als rational angesehen werden, und was sie tut, ist ihre Sache.

Bei meiner ersten ernsthaften Freundin von Ende der 1980er bis Ende der 1990er Jahre, A.D.D. diagnostiziert. und ihre Mutter hat sich immer in unsere persönlichen Angelegenheiten eingemischt - sie hat nichts ohne die Zustimmung ihrer Mutter getan. Ich war verlobt, um zu heiraten, und habe es aus diesem und anderen Gründen abgesagt. Ihre Mutter mochte mich danach nicht mehr und sagte ihr, sie solle mich verlassen, und sie tat es. Sie war ein süßes Mädchen, konnte aber nicht für sich selbst denken.

In Bezug auf die Kommentare, um die sie Sie bittet, über „Sie zu schlagen“, klingt es, als würde sie versuchen, Sie wie die Gewalttätige aussehen zu lassen. Spielen Sie nicht in ihre Manipulation der Situation hinein, fragen Sie auch Ihren Anwalt danach.

Ich hoffe, Sie haben die Entfernung von Möbeln und deren Wiederauftauchen dokumentiert und Sie dann aus der Wohnung ausgesperrt. Fragen Sie hierzu Ihren Vermieter um eine Stellungnahme. Je mehr Informationen Ihr Anwalt hat, desto besser. Wenn Sie es verpasst haben, tun Sie es das nächste Mal, wenn sie es tut.

Sprechen Sie auch mit der Polizei, wenn Sie dort Ihre Sachen abholen. Holen Sie sich so viele Dokumente wie möglich. Ich weiß, dass die Gesetze in Deutschland anders sind als an meinem Wohnort, fragen Sie am besten Ihren Anwalt.

Bewahren Sie alle SMS und Anrufe, die sie macht, und auch Ihre [erfahren Sie, wie Sie Screenshots auf Ihrem Telefon machen], besonders wenn es sich um eine App handelt, die die SMS oder Anrufe nicht speichert.

Pass auf dich auf und viel Glück.
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Woolspinner2000
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2023, 04:55:32 AM »

Hi NorthernCreature,

How are you doing today? Thank you for engaging with us and providing details.

From your response it sounds like even a walk outside is difficult for you due to the close vicinity of your W apartment and concerns of violating an order. Can you take a metro or bike for a ride out of the area? Perhaps a coffee at a distant shop? Getting out and away from where you're continually reminded of her, even for a very short while, will allow you to disengage just a fraction.

I know you're too exhausted mentally and physically to do much more. That's okay. Do you ever go to a gym to workout? Some previous members have lifted weights to help channel their mental energy into something they can do.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Wools
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There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind.  -C.S. Lewis
NorthernCreature

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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2023, 07:39:30 AM »

NorthernCreature,

You know that she is mentally unstable, so you need to protect yourself with documentation.  Use your cell phone to record her irrational outbursts if possible, or purchase a body camera to do this.

It is unfortunate that she is kicking you out.  Fortunately you can stay with your mother for a short while while you find a new place to live.

Keep your interaction with her BIFF [Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm] https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0 record everything.  You want to be seen as rational, and whatever she does is her business.


Yes, I already documented everything. Screenshots, photos, printed text and so on. Just in case I need it in the future. I wanted to use the photos of the empty living room and so at court, until I decided it would be better to leave freeely and not fight for the apartment.


My 1st serious girlfriend from the late 1980s to the late 1990's was diagnosed with A.D.D.  and her mother too always intermeddled into our personal stuff - she did nothing without her mother's approval.  I was engaged to be married and called it off for that and other reasons.  Her mother didn't like me, and told her to leave me, and she did.  She was a sweet girl, but could not think for herself.

With regards to the comments she is asking of you with regards to 'beating her' - it sounds like she want to make you look like the violent one.  Do not play into her manipulation of the situation, ask your attorney on this one too.

I hope you documented the removing of furniture and its reappearance and then locking you out of the apartment.  Get a statement from your landlord too on this.  The more information your attorney has the better.  If you missed it, do it the next time she does this.


That's exactly what the mother of my wife suggested her regularly. And exactly the same dynamic between my wife and her mother, like in your case with my wife not doing anything without her mother's approval. Talking about breakups, my wife listened a few times but we always came back together and that did upset her mother. Apart from her BPD splits that resulted in mini breakups at times, her mother was another difficulty for our relationship. She even told stories of us outside in the entire neighborhood... her mother smeared us everywhere. And by the end, she used my wife's son as a leverage against her like "If you come together again, your son will [insert something]"

That she asked if I would beat her, she ridiculed herself. Especially because when the police arrived and saw me calm except that had tears in my eyes... since my wife told me that the police officers speaked to her in a different tone, I am sure she acted out in front of them. The police had no clue why they were called and saw that I am peaceful in nature. I wrote all of  it down anyway to remember these things.

Hi NorthernCreature,

How are you doing today? Thank you for engaging with us and providing details.

From your response it sounds like even a walk outside is difficult for you due to the close vicinity of your W apartment and concerns of violating an order. Can you take a metro or bike for a ride out of the area? Perhaps a coffee at a distant shop? Getting out and away from where you're continually reminded of her, even for a very short while, will allow you to disengage just a fraction.

I know you're too exhausted mentally and physically to do much more. That's okay. Do you ever go to a gym to workout? Some previous members have lifted weights to help channel their mental energy into something they can do.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Wools

No, I am not concerned to violate an order. The order was about who gets the apartment. It has nothing to do with stalking or so. Her lawyer just threatened me that such order would be a possibility if I contact my wife... which was ridiculous as she contacted me as often prior to the court date... and as said, she was the only one to contact me when I went LC after the court.

I walked 10km yesterday... walked to a large mall but cried on my way back. It was the same way I walked with her often. Our favorite mall. But no matter what path I choose, it'll remind me of her.

In the past I preferred jogging. I jogged 7km 3 times a week before I met her. After that, it was not possible anymore because she believes I wouldgo jogging for my appeareance and for women. I told her that jogging gives me a good feeling for body and soul, and that I never seen it like she did. My body looks sporty/slim no matter if I go jogging or not... had to explain her again that it's just for my fitness, for my soul... she didn't demand that I stop jogging, but from that point on I didn't feel good anymore to go jogging and stopped to make her "happy". I would like to start again but I don't think I can pull up the energy at the moment.

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NorthernCreature

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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2023, 08:12:33 AM »

Hi NorthernCreature,

How are you doing today? Thank you for engaging with us and providing details.

Not good. I realized she now has me blocked since 9 days on WhatsApp. She has me blocked on all other channels as well.
It might be possible that I could still call her or send an SMS.

Yesterday I almost wanted to send her an SMS but didn't do so for two reasons... 1. I would have needed to split my SMS up in two or three parts. 2. I would not know for sure if she would read it, as it has no read receip like WhatsApp and not knowing if she did read, would just add to my pain.

But here is what I have pre written and would like to send her (of course my text is German)... fortunately it's not possible at the moment. But if she would unblock me on WhatsApp... the desire to send this would be strong:

Excerpt
Hey, just 2 months and we gonna be mom and dad. As you know, since you already have a son, a child will be the most important in our life.

I still believe, if childs have both mom and dad together, and will be loved by both, it'll give them a lot of security.

You know I love you and you have shown me the same for so long.

Love is not the honey moon feeling, love is a choice for someone and I decided for you with our marriage.

I'd like to ask you f we can talk once more, talking without any accusations.
You know I didn't just love you and have not just been there for you but also for your son, he always said.

I'd like to be there again, for you, for your son and for the baby that is underway.
I didn't just love you but the little family we have been with your son and our baby.

I wish you could feel the sincerity in which I write this.
From the beginning to the end, I always believed in us and know we can accomplish everything.

I truly feel what we have been and what we planned and hope you're open to talk again.


Being blocked since 9 days makes me very anxious... she has never done it for so long. It's still very unlikely that she has a new BF... might very well be that her WhatsApp status was a bluff. A neighbor had a phone call with my mom and told her that my wife is always alone at home, often seen alone in the staircase that connects all apartments... our district is like a village, people would have noticed it. So,...

My fear right now is that she wanted to make me chase her with the provokation but since I didn't react, she feels abandoned of me now. 9 days of blocking is very very unusual.
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SaltyDawg
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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2023, 11:53:06 PM »

I walked 10km yesterday... walked to a large mall but cried on my way back. It was the same way I walked with her often. Our favorite mall. But no matter what path I choose, it'll remind me of her.

In the past I preferred jogging. I jogged 7km 3 times a week before I met her. After that, it was not possible anymore because she believes I wouldgo jogging for my appeareance and for women. I told her that jogging gives me a good feeling for body and soul, and that I never seen it like she did. My body looks sporty/slim no matter if I go jogging or not... had to explain her again that it's just for my fitness, for my soul... she didn't demand that I stop jogging, but from that point on I didn't feel good anymore to go jogging and stopped to make her "happy". I would like to start again but I don't think I can pull up the energy at the moment.

I agree with everything else you said in your response to me.  However, I am going to comment on your own self-care.  Do 'start again' it is very important.  Perhaps the most important thing you can do for yourself.

The 10km walk is an excellent start, this is what I do for self-care, walk/hike/ride a bicycle and get out in nature's elements while riding through the forest with mountain streams.  It make me feel good, and as you describe, good for my soul.  I get it.  I also recommend perhaps going in a different directions other than the mall, so it will not remind you of her. 

Other things I do for self care is take a nice long hot shower.  I also like losing myself in a good book/movie/tv series.  Go out with friends, do things that do not remind you of her.  Just a few suggestions here.

Take care, and good luck.
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2023, 05:41:56 AM »

Hello!
Sorry to hear about your situation. I´m glad you found this group of pepole. When I read your post it was like reading my own post. I am thankful that you shared this with us and I hope things turns out the best way posible for you. As time goes by hang out with friends, talk to them and explain. Talk to a teraphist, when I did and she started to reply on things I said I asked her how she already knew what was going on in my life. She answerd that her job is educated in BPD and she knows how it works. It felt so good to know thats it wasn´t just me and that our relationship wasn´t so strange.
This group is also that kind of place, a safe place where you don´t have to feel alone.

Take care and I whish you the best Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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NorthernCreature

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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2023, 07:19:56 AM »

My sleep is really strange. I do sleep quite long now. Somehow 10 hours... just because I don't have the energy to wake up.
But it feels like I don't really sleep... it feels like I am in a dream-like state for the entire 10 hours... but not fully asleep. It feels like I am 70% asleep and 30% awake for the entire 10 hours... and the thoughts/dreams feel cognitive dissonant... it's like my brain even tries to understand during sleep what just happened. My brain shows me all the beautiful things we experienced, and the bad ones, at the same time. It's the strangest sleep I ever had. And it's horrible that I wake up and the dream/thoughts continue in the awake state as well. I wake up and it's just there.

I am now blocked 10 days. It hurts. I assume she feels abandoned because I didn't react to her "new BF" bluff. Maybe gives up now entirely in borderline logic like "See, if he truly would have loved me, he would have chased me"... I don't know.
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SaltyDawg
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2023, 09:53:23 AM »

My sleep is really strange. I do sleep quite long now. Somehow 10 hours... just because I don't have the energy to wake up.
But it feels like I don't really sleep... it feels like I am in a dream-like state for the entire 10 hours... but not fully asleep. It feels like I am 70% asleep and 30% awake for the entire 10 hours... and the thoughts/dreams feel cognitive dissonant... it's like my brain even tries to understand during sleep what just happened. My brain shows me all the beautiful things we experienced, and the bad ones, at the same time. It's the strangest sleep I ever had. And it's horrible that I wake up and the dream/thoughts continue in the awake state as well. I wake up and it's just there.


It sounds like you might be falling into a depression, or some other similar mental state of mind associated with it. 

My sleep pattern definitely changed too once I was faced with my relationship failing altogether and came to the realization my wife was likely a pwBPD and it would likely wind up in divorce.  My sleep went from 7-8 hours to 2-4 hours, and then I could no longer sleep as my mind would race on what is going on with my relationship, this went on for months, until I learned how to manage my situation and my mind was in an emotional fog while processing this new found information that my individual therapist shared with me.  My mind would race, and over analyze where I went wrong, to cause this to happen between us.  It literally took months of research, therapy, being here, being elsewhere to figure out and process what has happened, and I am still processing, even though there is a lot less volatility than there was a few months ago.

I am now blocked 10 days. It hurts. I assume she feels abandoned because I didn't react to her "new BF" bluff. Maybe gives up now entirely in borderline logic like "See, if he truly would have loved me, he would have chased me"... I don't know.

Right now, I feel that you are 2nd guessing as to what really has happened. 

It could be any number of things.  If she is a borderline, and she has not found a 'new BF' there is a reasonable chance that she will unblock you and come back.  However, if there is a 'new BF', she will keep you blocked and move on, until the 'new BF' leaves, or she does the same thing to him.  I am thinking, what kind of 'new BF' would date a very pregnant girl with another man's baby [other than an equally crazy one]?

If she is hormonally challenged due to the pregnancy, it could be related to that.  No matter what the reasoning for her behavior, you perceive yourself as being shut out of her life, and it is affecting you in a very impactful way.

Only you can take care of yourself.  Seek out therapy if you can afford it to sort out your emotions and what is affecting your sleep.  If you can't then vent here with others experiencing similar relationship issues, and I and others will try and help by sharing our own stories that relate to yours.

There is one supplement that I can recommend for getting better sleep, melatonin seems to help me, when combined with drinking a small glass of milk.

Take care.
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NorthernCreature

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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2023, 12:55:30 PM »

Excerpt
my mind would race on what is going on with my relationship, this went on for months

Excerpt
My mind would race, and over analyze where I went wrong, to cause this to happen between us.

Yeah, same here. I am not perfect and probably did mistakes but overall I've done everything I could so that my wife and her son feel good. They even told me often that they're happy (before her major splitting). So, the contrast that happened then.. my psyche has difficulties to deal with this. I am at the stage you are mentioning now... I am looking for what I have done wrong. I am starting to questioning myself. Only my mother and two closer friends hold me back from thinking that it was all my fault. I know it's not my fault, I've been a good person... but when someone gaslights you into thinking you're not, for so long... you start to question yourself.

Excerpt
It could be any number of things.  If she is a borderline, and she has not found a 'new BF' there is a reasonable chance that she will unblock you and come back.  However, if there is a 'new BF', she will keep you blocked and move on, until the 'new BF' leaves, or she does the same thing to him.  I am thinking, what kind of 'new BF' would date a very pregnant girl with another man's baby [other than an equally crazy one]?

Yes, pregnant in the 7th month, with a massive tattoo on her forearm with my name on it and all our anniversary dates. She told me she will get a tattoo done over it at some point, but I guess she would have unblocked me ASAP to show me that my name is no longer on her forearm. So, I do assume she still has it. Just in case someone wonders: I am not a tattoo guy, I don't have a single tattoo and I told her back then that I won't do the same, but she came back with my name on her arm anyway. But the "new BF" would indeed have to be crazy... but I know the guy she mentioned in her text status... He is a pretty normal guy. Was seen hand in hand with his girlfriend one week prior to my wife's WhatsApp status... he has a job, a girlfriend, but he is single parent (the mother is crazy, he got custody).

My mother saw my wife today and something strange happened. When I was painted black, my mother was painted black as well. If they met each other by coincidence, my wife didn't greet her anymore, looked angry and so. My mother said "Hi" anyway in those cases but never got a reply, just angry looks... today, my mother saw her with her son. My mom greeted her and my wife greeted friendly back... I asked my mother "Are you kidding me?"... "Nope". My mother said my wife still looks sad anyhow, but she smiled when my mother greeted and has not been shy, and greeted back as said. It seems like my mother is painted white, because it was totally different... she looked angry at my mother before. I am confused.

I really hope she unblocks me. I'd like to talk with her.

Excerpt
If she is hormonally challenged due to the pregnancy, it could be related to that.  No matter what the reasoning for her behavior, you perceive yourself as being shut out of her life, and it is affecting you in a very impactful way.

I wondering a lot about this. She has had all BPD signs... but it got really worse with the pregnancy. I assume it's a combination of both.

Excerpt
Only you can take care of yourself.  Seek out therapy if you can afford it to sort out your emotions and what is affecting your sleep.  If you can't then vent here with others experiencing similar relationship issues, and I and others will try and help by sharing our own stories that relate to yours.

I browsed therapists again today. Found one with a good set of skills that could relate to my issues. She is doing depression (that's important for me), trauma work (I do assume I have a trauma now) and personality disorders (so that she understand me if I talk about m wife). She is also doing DBT, so, I guess she knows about borderline. But she has holidays until Feb 26. But I think I will go with her.

I do appreciate your opinions and experiences a lot. I feel less alone with my issues when I can talk with people like you, who understand me. Thank you.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 01:02:40 PM by NorthernCreature » Logged
SaltyDawg
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2023, 02:43:29 PM »

Yeah, same here. I am not perfect and probably did mistakes but overall I've done everything I could so that my wife and her son feel good. They even told me often that they're happy (before her major splitting). So, the contrast that happened then.. my psyche has difficulties to deal with this. I am at the stage you are mentioning now... I am looking for what I have done wrong. I am starting to questioning myself. Only my mother and two closer friends hold me back from thinking that it was all my fault. I know it's not my fault, I've been a good person... but when someone gaslights you into thinking you're not, for so long... you start to question yourself.

Nobody is perfect.  It is not all your fault, after all it takes two to make a disagreement.  It is important to realize that gaslighting will erode your sense of self, and makes you question yourself if you are the one at fault especially if she projected and transfered her insecurities on to you.  However, I do take ownership of my not understanding how the BPD mind works, as I was totally unaware for BPD until this past June (2/3 of a year ago) so when I was gaslit, I argued back, and that created a circle of drama which has perpetuated over the two decades that we have been together.  I am partly to blame, as I did not have an understanding of how the dysfunctional emotions of the borderline worked.  I took time to study them, to see how they think, and even though it seems illogical, it is quite logical once it is understood -- it is just not rational to most people.

My suggestion about the 'new BF' is not to let it bother you, unless you actually see her with him in real life or on social media [both his and her accounts]. 

My mom greeted her and my wife greeted friendly back... I asked my mother "Are you kidding me?"... "Nope". My mother said my wife still looks sad anyhow, but she smiled when my mother greeted and has not been shy, and greeted back as said. It seems like my mother is painted white, because it was totally different... she looked angry at my mother before. I am confused.

Borderlines and narcissists have similar relationship cycles and they present differently (emotional & physical or emotional only) with different frequencies (3 days to 3 decades); however, there are many similarities that are consistent.

love bombing --> devalue --> discard -x-> recycle

I feel that you may be currently where the x is.  If there is no 'new BF' there is a good chance of 'recycling'.  Her smile at your mother would seem to indicate that a recycle might happen soon.  However, if there is a 'new BF', the cycle will transfer to him instead until he discards her, and then she may come back and recycle with you.

I wondering a lot about this. She has had all BPD signs... but it got really worse with the pregnancy. I assume it's a combination of both.
My wife got worse when she had her periods (menses) and when she became pregnant.  There is no doubt in my mind that there is a correlation there.

I browsed therapists again today. Found one with a good set of skills that could relate to my issues. She is doing depression (that's important for me), trauma work (I do assume I have a trauma now) and personality disorders (so that she understand me if I talk about m wife). She is also doing DBT, so, I guess she knows about borderline. But she has holidays until Feb 26. But I think I will go with her.

DBT while originally developed for BPD, it can be used in a variety of therapeutic settings.  DBT is considered the best therapies for borderlines; however, other therapies work too, just not as well.  I think the person whom you selected will be a good fit.  The good T's usually have a waiting list in my country.  Make sure you 'click' with your T and she is a good fit.  Therapists, like all professions have good ones, and not so good ones.  It is key to find one that is a good fit for you. 

Make sure that you do some 'self-care' your walks/runs as I find that to be most helpful in coping with this kind of situation.

Take care.
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NorthernCreature

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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2023, 04:32:09 PM »

Excerpt
However, I do take ownership of my not understanding how the BPD mind works, as I was totally unaware for BPD until this past June (2/3 of a year ago) so when I was gaslit, I argued back, and that created a circle of drama which has perpetuated over the two decades that we have been together.

That's something I battle with at the moment too. Consumed a lot of content about BPD, be it text or video. A good mix of content, professionals (psychologists/therapists) and experiences on nons or those who suffer with BPD. I feel like with the current knowledge, I could have "adapted" a bit better to my wifes struggles. I actually believe I could have skipped some of her triggers, or let her cool down. Here are just a few examples...

- I am the type of guy who wants peace ASAP, better now than hours or days later. Thus, I followed her around in the apartment with the goal to settle the dispute or understand her. Not knowing that this must have triggered her further. When she used the silent threatment, I kept talking in hope to settle the dispute. With my current knowledge, and what she hinted at, this must have made things worse.

- Before the big breakup, I started to understand it that she sometimes just needs space. Thus, when we had a dispute, I told her that I don't find it ok what she has done and I either left her alone and went into another room, or told or went outside, for example visiting my mother. Not knowing that this would trigger fear of abandonment, and it often did with her WhatsApp messages arriving "Where are you, are you sick? Letting your pregnant wife alone?" or similar texts. Not knowing at this time that it would have been far better to tell her where I go, and that I will be back, and that I am not mad, just giving her/us 30 mins of space so that we calm down and make peace.

Truth be told, I've been close to the best possible way to handle this with her... strangely enough, the word borderline fits here too as I realized. You're definitely walking on a borderline.. you either give too much space and they feel abandoned, our you don't give enough space and they feel engulfed. Remembering a day where I tried to calm her down but it made it worse, and then watching a movie alone in the living room after she went into bed, to eventually have her looking into the living room 30 mins later, telling me "I feel like something changed in our relationship, the way how you treat me, letting me go to bed alone... it gives me anxiety. Why don't you come to bed?"... very difficult. You respecting her, giving her room to breethe, and then it's wrong too. But generally, there must be a middle... and it's probably about communication as I have read. Setting a boundary, that you didn't like something,  telling them what you will do (like taking 30 mins space) but, BUT... that you love her, that you will be back. I assume that's how it's handled better.

- Like you said, going into circular arguments with her after she either gaslighted me, or perceived something entirely wrong, or saw things that I haven't said or done... shouldn't have argued with her. But like you... I have done the exact same. Should have skipped it. I have heard about the JADE technique... or the technique I mentioned in the other examples... getting out of the situation but not on a way that she feels abandoned.

- Critique. This one is a difficult one, especially since my wife was dependent of her mother for so long. Getting payment at the beginning of the month and seeing my wife spend like 10% of it on Day 1 (not even food included, me pointing that out while still at the mall)... How could you not critizie her? Or waiting until the evening until she knows what she or her son want to eat... If you are flexible and would eat almost all, and thus have to rely on her idea... how would this not become a topic of critique? But as far as I learned, it's better to take control... I tried this, I took it in my hands, I went shopping and purchased all kind of stuff so that we can at least cook for like 10 days... she could decide at home and was less stressed. I learned this is the way how to handle it... taking control if they can't. It worked in my case, but it took way too much time until I found that solution. Previously I argued and argued with her about what she wants to eat, and it made it worse. I even mentioned "I mean, it's not just about us, your son is hungry too"... I guess this shamed/blamed her. I made the big mistake that I even brought up the term "eating disorder", I shouldn't have done it but honestly, I've never seen people being that complicated with food in my entire family or circle of friends. But it was not wise to mention "eating disorder" during a dispute. When I took control, the issue with the eating that came up regularly, was now gone... truth told, it created a new problem, she might have felt that I control our money now when went go shopping... or that I decided what we purchase (as she didn't).

- I also didn't know that a small dispute/talk  or little critique might be small to us nons and forgoten a day later... but for BPD, the emotions can be strong... multiplied... I didn't know that. If I would have known this, I would have skipped unimportant things entirely and would have dosed/balanced big everyday issues or spread them out... also aiming at not givinig her the feeling that she must be ashamed... I actually never wanted to make her feel like this, but I didn't know that they can perceive it that way if you are not careful how your point comes across.

- Validate her fears/feelings more instead of just telling her that she doesn't have to be afraid that I abandon her as I am loyal. Better would have been to tell her this but validate her feelings, and telling her that I have the same fears. It's sad that I was annoyed by the end when she was jealous for no reason.. in the end I probably made it worse by argueing with her about what she made up in her head. I should have kept validating the feelings and telling her that I am loyal, instead of getting annoyed by it.

Excerpt
drama which has perpetuated over the two decades that we have been together.

May I ask through how many cycles you have been? Have you been discareded or did you ever breakup with her? If she discarded you, what was the longest timeframe until she came back? Now it's months and she is still not back... but previously it took her either 15 mins, 30 mins, 2 hours, a half day but not longer than this. But I think that was micro splitting without open/blatant devaluation and at that time she clearly told me it was fear to lose me... the major discard was different, probably more engulfment than fear of abandonment.

We hit new levels of "love" or "trust"... best candle light evenings ever, best sex... or trust... a week before the major breakup, she asked me why we close the bathroom door if we go to pee, if we see each other naked regularly anyway. Thus, she went to the toilet and smiled "Look how I pee, later it's your turn and I watch"... it was funny, but well, sure, she was right, we used the bathroom together naked after sex, for example cleaning us... why not if someone pees? we could now use the bathroom together even if either of us wanted to pee. It sounds funny, but it felt like a new level of trust... her mini breakups always happened when we reached new love or trust levels. It was not different with the last big breakup.

Excerpt
love bombing --> devalue --> discard -x-> recycle

This is something I know since I research the topic. But it made me wonder if I was ever devalued before the major breakup and if this is now just the "almost" completion of the first cycle...

I thought I went through like 10+ cycles...the mini breakups I mentioned. But maybe I didn't. These were more like...

love bombing --> breakup --> makeup --> repeat (with her always telling me that she felt conflicted.. she either told me she battles with a conflict between closeness and distance.. but also that she fears to lose me even if I told her there is no reason, I am loyal).
Maybe these have been mini cycles. Like mentioned in the previous posts, it was like 1 monthly, but intervals increased to weekly, 3-daylie until the major discard I am at now since the end of November (24). But I just turned pitch black by the end of December.

Excerpt
I feel that you may be currently where the x is.  If there is no 'new BF' there is a good chance of 'recycling'.  Her smile at your mother would seem to indicate that a recycle might happen soon.  However, if there is a 'new BF', the cycle will transfer to him instead until he discards her, and then she may come back and recycle with you.

I constantly have the exact same feeling. Like as if there is something up in the air... it's just that I thought it's my trauma bond playing tricks with my head. We will see.

Excerpt
Make sure you 'click' with your T and she is a good fit.  Therapists, like all professions have good ones, and not so good ones.  It is key to find one that is a good fit for you.

Make sure that you do some 'self-care' your walks/runs as I find that to be most helpful in coping with this kind of situation.

Roger  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)



« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 04:44:37 PM by NorthernCreature » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2023, 12:43:43 AM »

I agree 100% with what you have described in the first half of your post, so I won't comment much on it, other than I agree completely with you as I too have experienced it.

However, I will comment on the cycles within cycles, and try to explain how that looks to me, as it is different than what you have described, yet, eerily similar.

I have had zero major cycles, where she physically leaves, she won't because she knows I had a previous relationship with a uBPD/NPDexgf, she left, and I did not return on the first cycle, even when the previous GF tried to recycle the relationship - I just used it as an opportunity to recover my personal belongings, and promptly left without reconnecting even though it was being offered by the exgf.  My wife viewed herself as the 'new GF' initially, so I suspect the love-bombing was extreme to keep me from going back to my exgf, even though I had absolutely no intentions to do so - the initial extreme love bombing phase that I mention is at least twice as long as any other I have heard about in texts and talking to others about their relationships.

I have had many intermediate cycles, where she will stonewall me emotionally and discard me while I was still physically in her presence, and I have not really studied that too much, as I really didn't recognize it until she was continually threatening divorce a few times per month or the period of more than a decade last year when I thought I was being finally being discarded on the major cycle.  I pissed her off by establishing boundaries and telling her about my suspicions of BPD [don't do that, btw], so she for the most part has been stonewalling me ever since I have recognized BPD - I'm about 300-330 days into the current devaluation cycle that feels like a discard.  These cycles vary from a few days, to weeks, to months, up to 500+ days - with an average of being 28 days - matching her cycle when she had it - a definite correlation there.  The longer cycles occurred after we had children together and marital strife.  These cycles initially don't appear to be borderline in nature, but reflect her overall attitude towards me and my attitude towards her after she has emotionally abused me and I reactively abused her back usually in the form of being defensively yelling to her false gaslighting claims.  However, I do suspect a much darker and much more sinister aspect of childhood abuse influencing this particular cycle.  My T's cannot confirm the borderline related "Daddy Issues" on these cycles, but strongly suspect them before I even shared some very vague and circumstantial evidence supporting this theory.  This is an aspect not generally covered in the textbooks, but it is talked about by borderlines.

The mini-cycles, definitely BPD-like in nature, where I am painted black, these last anywhere from 45 minutes up to 7 hours, with one recent exception that lasted two days. 

Love bombing = She gives me compliments, on how good I do something, or how pleased she is with me, or she is baseline [most of the time] - the infatuation period is over, so extreme love bombing is over, but it still exists.
Devalue = Nothing I do is right, everything I do is wrong, and she tells me, this lasts from 45 minutes to 7 hours, averaging 2-4 hours in length.
Discard = stonewalling, the silent treatment, lasts the remainder of the day, usually resets the following morning, recently it took two days - this is a one-time thing.
Recycle = resets the following morning in all but one of the times this has happened.

Sex.  For me, the door is open for pee, but not #2, a little TMI here; however, I am sharing as it is something you found important enough to mention.  However, Hypersexuality and Hyposexuality dominated the intermediate cycles I spoke of, there are two distinct phases the infatuation period prior to getting pregnant which was exclusively hypersexual in nature [5 years and 2 months], and once we became pregnant went hyposexual in nature and still is to this day.  It literally went from every day we were together, to 7 times in a decade, one of which created our son - needless to say I was very confused when this happened especially as my primary love language is touch.  I went from her 'lover' to being the 'father of her unborn child' - more than likely some kind of 'daddy issues' at work here. There was a 500x difference in the amount of sex we had, it also went from mind-blowingly awesome to a chore for her.

This is what it looks like for me and is likely not what it looks like for you. 

If you have any other questions, ask - I'll share my experiences and observations based on those experiences and/or what I have read.

Take care, and do self-care.

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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2023, 02:59:54 AM »

Excerpt
I pissed her off by establishing boundaries and telling her about my suspicions of BPD [don't do that, btw]

I've done that by the end too. I mean, her therapist started to suspect it, and even my wife started reading about it and we talked about it. And I now suspected BPD too... but yeah, talking about it further did piss her off as well. I started to set boundaries as well.

Excerpt
Devalue = Nothing I do is right, everything I do is wrong, and she tells me, this lasts from 45 minutes to 7 hours, averaging 2-4 hours in length.

Well, then I actually have been devalued quite a few times over time. Then the devaluation step has not been missing like I thought. I though it must include being offending... but it was more like in your case, that she always found something I have done wrong or that nothing I have done was right. Just before the major discard things turned more ugly, with her gaslighting me heavily and being more offensive.

Excerpt
I am sharing as it is something you found important enough to mention.

Yeah, sexuality actually became a big problem in my case too. She was hypersexual from the beginning to the end. And even more so when she got pregnant. We've done it several times per day... it almost appeared to me as if she didn't know that I'd need regeneration at some point. And for me it wasn't special anymore. It felt so forced... but I believe it was actually more the latter... In the beginning of the relationship m my libido went south hill because it was no romantic sex. But that changed shortly after when she discovered my love language...

She mirrored what I liked. Being more passionate and natural (touching, getting desire, instead of speaking or planning it). I think it is much more passionate if desire would build up naturally and how important cuddling and massage is... and how beautiful it is when cuddling leads to sex without even talking about having sex because the desire did build up strongly and naturally, instead of forcing it several times a day like on shedule. She told me her exes just wanted sex, haven't been very romantic, I thought it's ok.

She was convinces as soon as she saw what I mean. Sexuality is not just having sex like in an internet movie or a chore... it's about touching, senses and what not. It's not just speed, she didn't even know slow cuddly sex... she was mindblown when she experienced/realized what I meant. At some point our sex really felt natural... that increased my own sexdrive too, which made me become compatible with her hypersexuality... we ended up where we started, with a lot of sex per day but much more passionate and natural. So somehow we both profited from it. She absolutely loved this way of getting intime with each other and for quite a while it all turned out good...

Well, until the breakup threat intervals got shorter and shorter. The more insecure I felt in the relationship or marriage, the more anxiety I felt in my body. It baffled me thats she wanted to break up with me one moment and minutes later wanted makeup sex. It has been possible when the intervals of threats have been far apart. But at these short intervals, anxiety and stress was so high, I couldn't relax anymore. My libido was completely killed the day she threatened me with breakup or even broke up for an hour. There have been days, nothing she tried could get me in the mood, which in return seemed to make her feel insecure. It's like I needed trust and when I got it, it worked again. And just the fact that she threatened me with breakup in one moment, and expected me to be able to perform in another moment, pressured me even more so and didn't help my libido either. The last month was extreme and it almost looked like she felt abandoned when I couldn't do it anymore but I explained her that I am still attracted but that it's about relationship security and anxiety. Strangely enough, I trusted her again before the major breakup (maybe because she was making new and more plans for the future again), and we had good sex... but that last month was bumpy due to the constant threats.

STRANGE NEWS:

My mother saw her narc mother. Since me and my wife been together, her narc mother never ever greeted my mother again for silly reasons. My mother keeps greeting people besause she has a good nature. So, as always she greeter her mother today and didn't expect a reply... but her mother actually greeted back! Even tho with a wrinkled face, but she greeted my mother back for the first time since her daughter and I have been together. Strange!

Yesterday it was my wife greeting back, today it's been her mother... what's going on? Maybe the start to realize that we eventually have to meet each other anyway as the baby comes in April? Maybe it did hit them, that it would be otherwise strange?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 09:28:34 AM by NorthernCreature » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2023, 11:54:52 AM »

I still have the keys for the basement as court said I have time until Feb 28 to pick up my stuff. Went into the apartmentblock basement today 3 times in a row. It seems my wife saw me going thought the park. The third time I went into the basement, she was there too with her son... strange coincidance, as if she charmed me. But if so... negatively...

I said "Hi"... her son looked surprised but didn't greet. My wife did not look into my direction and didn't greet either. So, they all basically greet my mother but I don't get greetings. It's ripping me apart... so cold... not even a "hi".. nothing. She was as if I was air, as if I am a ghost.. as if she hasn't even noticed me.

You know, if I would be a criminial... if I would have abused her... if I would be a bad person... I'd understand it.

But I haven't done anything... and I am punished. Crying while I write this... it hurts so much.

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« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2023, 04:09:38 PM »

NC,

   What you describe of her sexual behavior is on the extreme side.  From what I have read a normaly amount of sex is 1-4 times per week when feeling well and healthy.

   I have already extensively commented on hypersexuality on the following pages, and I am giving you some Paragraph header (click to insert in post) as it is a very tough read and can be triggering.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354920.msg13188259#msg13188259
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354797


You know, if I would be a criminial... if I would have abused her... if I would be a bad person... I'd understand it.

But I haven't done anything... and I am punished. Crying while I write this... it hurts so much.

I know it hurts so much.  You are grieving the loss of your wife, even though she was standing right in front of you.  Giving you a virtual hug.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Even though you are not a criminal, you have not abused her; however, after you read the stuff about hypersexuality, she may see you in a criminal way in her own warped mind.  I strongly suspected mine has, where I went from her lover to the father of her child as you will read with the above links.

Do you know how she treated the father of your step-son?  Often the behavior patterns repeat from relationship to relationship.
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2023, 01:12:15 PM »

Excerpt
What you describe of her sexual behavior is on the extreme side.  From what I have read a normaly amount of sex is 1-4 times per week when feeling well and healthy.

I have already extensively commented on hypersexuality on the following pages, and I am giving you some Paragraph header (click to insert in post) as it is a very tough read and can be triggering.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354920.msg13188259#msg13188259
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354797

I wondered once if she was sexually abused at some point in her teenage but I am not sure. Hypersexuality alone didn't make me think so. But one evening she made attempts to roleplay with me. I said I wasn't a good roleplayer and prefer to be in the "here and now" (aka reality)... she kept trying and started to play a teen role, told me she would be 15 or 16 years old alone at home, and I am an 40 years old adult (can't remember how I got into the apartment in her fantasy)... Anyway, I told her I don't like that. She kept smiling and said "Please!" but eventually gave up. It wasn't just cringy, it actually creeped me out that evening... I was lucky when we both fell asleep without her demanding sex... because I wouldn't have been able to as this made me think.

She never attempted that again but thinking about it afterwards, I wondered if she tried some kind of trauma reenactment. Maybe she was 15 or 16 during a possible sexual abuse? I really wondered if she tried to reenact something from her past with her suggested roleplay. By the way, I am 13 years older than her. In the beginning when we came together, I asked her if it wouldn't be an issue if I am in my fourties while she is in her twenties. She said nope, her exes have always been older, like 5-10 years older. But she admitted that she thought I'd be 34 instead of in the fourties, but it wouldn't be an issue and claimed it would be hot. That made me wonder too if she has daddy issues.

She barely switches from Hypersexuality to Hyposexuality. She was constantly Hypersexual. The only week she became Hyposexual was when I "complained" (in a diplomatic way) that we had too much sex and that I would like a natural build up of desire and sex too (for example when cuddling, touching each other). She felt abandoned and punished me for a week without sex. When I asked about it, she basically got it wrong (as if I said I no longer want sex) and it was blatant that she now limited the sex to punish me.

But we spoke about it, and she started to understand that I didn't mean to punish her with less sex, but that I suggested to be romantic as well... that it can be so powerful when you feel lust during the day but wait even further to the evening and then it happens after a massage or while cuddling. At some point she knew what I meant and actually prefered it this way. Especially when you want to achieve pregnancy, you especially should limit the sex a bit and also skip days in the fertile week because of semen quality... so during that time, we both kept our lust a bit at bay and even she said the sex was more intense and started to prefer it this way (sure, if you bang all day, you don't feel the intensity anymore, that's why less is sometimes more). Anyway, we got hypersexual again when she became pregnant. But our both sex drive increased to an insane level... maybe due to her hormones. Honestly, it was almost like I could smell her hormones... I craved her before, but with her pregnancy she turned me on even more so.

Excerpt
I know it hurts so much.  You are grieving the loss of your wife, even though she was standing right in front of you.  Giving you a virtual hug.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Thank you. Hugging back  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Yes, grieving is the right word... seing her literally ghost me... it felt like either she or I am dead... if she, then because she looked so empty, if at all, full of hatred... if it's me feeling dead, because it was almost like she went through me (ghost).


Excerpt
Do you know how she treated the father of your step-son?  Often the behavior patterns repeat from relationship to relationship.

She claimed that she has been in a day clinic during that time and met this dude there. Things happened immedietly, they didn't protect and she got pregnant. She claimed that this guy did a paternity test in hope that he wouldn't be the father. She said that the guy hoped the baby would die before birth. I am not sure anymore if I believe any stories about her exes. In this case, one thing is sure... that guy has never seen his son, so, it is probably believable when she told me he never wanted to see the son.

It's just the way how she threw me away in the 7th month of being pregnant... without reasons... who knows, maybe she did the same with that guy. Honestly, the trouble I had and still have with her, and the trouble I will have with her in the future as I need to stay in contact with her because of the baby... and considering how dangerious this could become for me (referring to her recent lies and paranoias).. I'd lie if I wouldn't have thought about that option as well, to forget about the baby and keep living my life. Don't get me wrong, I am interested to see my baby and might even fight if her mental state gets worse... but for the first time I see why some fathers who got abandoned before they got future faked, do skip the idea of ever seeing their childs... maybe that is what happened in the case of the dude in the day clinic. I think not everyone has the mental energy to fight with such a person like my wife.

I am not sure if this is the case. All I think is that a lot of the stories she told me about exes, feel kinda strange in hindsight. Especially the story about the guy before me (it's not the father of her son)... she went to court with him and accused him of attempted rape. The case is still ongoing/not finished, wich is strange (probably not of importance). Her story basically goes like this... she broke up with him, and he pulled his penis out and told her "Give me at least a handjob before I go"... she did it because she was afraid of him. I don't want to trivialise his behaviour if this truly happened, but to me this would look more like sexual coercion than attempted rape. But the court case is about more stuff, like he did bite into her neck and injured something so that she still has issues like headache or feelings along the neck. Is this true? I don't know, all I know is that her neck is one of her hot zones, she always demanded it from me too to bite her, except that she told me that I do it right and not violently as the other guy did. Same for chocking... she loved it rough at times but always told me I've done it right and felt safe with me. This brings me to the next point... her ex also put a pistol on her head during sex (but a signal pistol as you can not get real guns in Germany unless you are hunter or work for police and so)... but given the fact what she demanded from me at times when she needed it more rought, like candle like wax on her back and so... I wouldn't wonder if she demanded from him to get the gun on the head.

On the other side, considering that I saw screenshots of his texts to my wife before we came together, that guy definitely wasn't a normal guy... took drugs, and is definitely nutcase in a way as it seemed... but yet there are a ton of inconsistencies in her stories. And way too many similarities to my own story, like how she broke up, her mother bein as much involved, the entire splitting process. It's almost like she is doing this in a loop.. on repeat... except that she had drugged nutcases before me... she got normal life with me, as she mirrored me. (I left all drama behind me a long time ago, also drug expiments... so, yeah, I am kinda normal compared to her exes). She even stopped taking drugs. But no matter what kind of nutcase her ex is, in hindsight, there are some strange inconsistencies and simmilarities, except that she didn't accuse me of rape.

Take care

« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 04:46:50 PM by NorthernCreature » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2023, 09:00:17 PM »

Thank you for sharing.  Please learn from what you have experienced.

Based on what you described there is a good chance she experienced some kind of sexual abuse/rape around 15 especially if she wanted you to re-enact that especially since you are significantly older than she is.

Biting her neck, hot candle wax, pistol, drugs, etc. Also charging her ex with rape - sounds like there is some pretty serious mental-health issues going on there.  Do watch your back, always have a witness with you [your mom/friend] when in her presence, also have your cell phone on record, or a body camera on you when around her so you can defend yourself against any potential false allegations.

I love my dear wife; however, when she becomes crazy, I also record her as she has given some indication that her version of her truth, is false to the world.  She has accused me of doing child abuse in front of a school principle and teachers - all of whom are mandated reporters of child abuse where I live.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354107.msg13181771#msg13181771

If you have an android phone, you can see a write up I did for recording software, it will consume battery and storage space, and you need to offload it daily or more frequently on to a hard drive. 
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354091.msg13181755#msg13181755
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2023, 09:48:04 PM »

California is a 2 party consent state for recording. A former staffer here obtained a TRO in his wife. They shared custody of their young teen. The wife then got her own TRO. I asked him what the criteria were for obtaining one. He said, "apparently, if you write well." He got around the 2 party consent by turning the phone to record himself when his wife would show up dysregulated. He provided his own commentary.

Journal as much as you can and date and sign each entry. That's admissible in court. Multiple professionals told me that.
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2023, 10:42:37 PM »

NorthernCreature is in Germany

Germany [EU] is a two-party state.

German law on recording:  https://recordinglaw.com/germany-recording-laws/

Excerpt
Can You Record Conversations To Collect Evidence Or For Self Defence?
German law allows you to make recordings of privately spoken words in instances where it is necessary to defend yourself or another person.

Section 34 of the German Criminal Code defines self-defence to include present danger to life, limb, liberty, honour, property or another legal interest which cannot otherwise be averted. However, individuals are required to weigh the conflicting interests and the degree of danger, in this case, legal interest, against their protected interests.

If the protected interests outweigh the legal interests, they are allowed to act accordingly provided the extent that the act committed is an adequate means to avert the danger.

It would appear that section 34 allows for this kind of recording for this circumstance; however, it would be best for him to obtain legal advice from a local source on this. 
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NorthernCreature

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 39


« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2023, 04:14:40 PM »

AND... UNBLOCKED. Noticed in the act. Had her chat opened while collecting and screenshotting text that I might need for youth welfare office.

I have read everything else you guys wrote... just posting this update here now. The blocky/unblocky blockedy block unblock block keeps going... but it's her record this time... she managed 12 days I believe (haven't checked the calendar). She never blocked me this long.

So... I wonder what happens next. Maybe wants to see her status updates?
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NorthernCreature

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 39


« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2023, 04:18:34 PM »

AND BLOCKED again...

That was quick.

Seriously... what is going on in her mind?
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