Is Borderline Abuse Real? | Borderline Personality Disorder & Aggression

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Just watched this very concerning video on the topic of BPD abuse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ioePZ_xQc. I'm curious about others' experiences with this.

Which of the examples of abuse mentioned here have you experienced?
Was it during the relationship or after the break-up?
What (if anything) did you do about it?

[BigEasyHeart]

Just watched this very concerning video on the topic of BPD abuse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ioePZ_xQc. I'm curious about others' experiences with this.

Which of the examples of abuse mentioned here have you experienced?
Was it during the relationship or after the break-up?
What (if anything) did you do about it?

[Pook075]

I experienced physical abuse early on in the marriage, and verbal abuse throughout the marriage.  In the devaluation stages, I experienced the stalking online- trying to hack my Facebook account (and taking over my deceased mom's account to spy on me), grilling our kids on what I'm doing, reaching out to my friends, etc.  She's been in my house since separating and searched my office/bedroom, but never when I'm home.

Oh the spontaneous attacks with kitchen utensils- why is that a thing?  Happened to me a few times.  Forks, knives, coffee mugs, plates etc. have all flown at my head.

[yellowbutterfly]

This is a recount of all the abuse I suffered at the hands of my stbx H wBPD. I'm only 3 minutes in the video and I'm like wow is he retelling my experience? I'll circle back with my thoughts at the end of it.

[yellowbutterfly]

ABUSE

Here are my thoughts on his assessment. I think he leaves out the stealing objects of value or sentimental value to hold hostage or break them. My stbx H did this all the time. I found it bizarre.

Frantic Efforts to Avoid Abandonment / Paranoia
• False accusation of abuse
• Stalking
• Threatening competitors
• Access to devices (criminal level)
• Build relationships to gather info
• Recording devices (criminal)
• Violating TOP - no thankfully but he got one before me so I think had he not gotten his TOP on LIES! he would have violated my order of protection

Idealization/Devaluation Cycle
• Yelling, screaming behaviors in the devaluation
• Idealization is abusive too, characterizes relationships incorrectly because this is not an accurate representation of the person/relationship
• Hateful statements, emotional abuse

Identity disturbance
• Not many

Impulsivity / Suicidal behavior > HE CONSTANTLY USED THREATS OF SUICIDE ETC and also scary impulsive behavior like reckless driving, trying to get me out of the car far from home, etc.
• Others will expend resources and anxiety to help this person
• Change plans to accommodate this person because the abused (YOU) care about them

Affective instability / Chronic feeling of emptiness
• Suffering but not directly abusive

Anger
• Constant anger > reactive anger
• Aggravated by other symptoms of bpd (impulsivity/paranoia)
• Hypersensitive to criticism and threats
• Sensitivity to facial expressions
• Aggression
• Threats are fairly common; fairly serious around theme of death/dying
• Physical violence (direct attack but not long in duration/ high risk but spontaneous)
• Often using weapons of opportunity > objects  and THROWING water! He used water as a weapon, guess what, it leaves no physical marks and so I could never really report it. He also shoved me.


Also, I wrote a poem https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354843.msg13187624#msg13187624 about some of the abuse I suffered, I think there are more things that pwBPD often do that the speaker leaves out from his video...

[BigEasyHeart]

Thank you both for sharing and I'm so sorry for all that you've had to go through. I didn't experience any physical abuse thankfully (but I wonder if things would have wound up there if we continued). In my case, I think I'm just now realizing how subtle forms of abusive gaslighting eroded my own sense of reality. For instance, my ex scared me once at a time when I was particularly jittery. I spoke up for myself and was upset and she accused me of being overly sensitive. Another time she accused me of never being "there" for her. When I tried to counter this with all the things I did for her, she told me she didn't think those behaviors were sincere. She also would deny that I had done things that I actually did do. One time when I was upset because of something she did, I tried to talk to her about it. During that conversation, she yelled something like "Well, I guess I can't do anything right!", which shifted the whole conversation away from my feelings to her wounded feelings.

All these things had the effect of causing me to doubt my own sense of self and reality (e.g., I would think, "Am I too sensitive?"; "Was I sincere?; "Did I actually do what I thought I did?") and they shifted the blame away from her and onto me (e.g., The conversation about something she did that bothered me became one where I was supposed to apologize for making her feel like she could not do anything right).

Most of these things happened in the devaluing and break-up parts of the relationship. The things she focused on also seemed to be 'targeted' at vulnerabilities that she invited me to share when she was idealizing me. I'm not saying this was 'intentional' but it was still awful to have things I shared about myself later 'weaponized' against me. I'm a person who tends to see the value in exploring different perspectives and seeing the world in shades of grey rather than black and white. I really think that this quality makes someone like me particularly susceptible to this kind of emotional abuse.

I'm learning now that I don't have to accept another person's point of view in order to respect them. I also am learning more about how to stand up for myself in those situations. I hope I never allow another person to say that they know my own motivations or thoughts better than I do myself in this way. I feel like this is an area I have to set strong boundaries for and clearly communicate them.

[Pook075]

Thank you both for sharing and I'm so sorry for all that you've had to go through. I didn't experience any physical abuse thankfully (but I wonder if things would have wound up there if we continued). In my case, I think I'm just now realizing how subtle forms of abusive gaslighting eroded my own sense of reality. For instance, my ex scared me once at a time when I was particularly jittery. I spoke up for myself and was upset and she accused me of being overly sensitive. Another time she accused me of never being "there" for her. When I tried to counter this with all the things I did for her, she told me she didn't think those behaviors were sincere. She also would deny that I had done things that I actually did do. One time when I was upset because of something she did, I tried to talk to her about it. During that conversation, she yelled something like "Well, I guess I can't do anything right!", which shifted the whole conversation away from my feelings to her wounded feelings.

All these things had the effect of causing me to doubt my own sense of self and reality (e.g., I would think, "Am I too sensitive?"; "Was I sincere?; "Did I actually do what I thought I did?") and they shifted the blame away from her and onto me (e.g., The conversation about something she did that bothered me became one where I was supposed to apologize for making her feel like she could not do anything right).

Most of these things happened in the devaluing and break-up parts of the relationship. The things she focused on also seemed to be 'targeted' at vulnerabilities that she invited me to share when she was idealizing me. I'm not saying this was 'intentional' but it was still awful to have things I shared about myself later 'weaponized' against me. I'm a person who tends to see the value in exploring different perspectives and seeing the world in shades of grey rather than black and white. I really think that this quality makes someone like me particularly susceptible to this kind of emotional abuse.

I'm learning now that I don't have to accept another person's point of view in order to respect them. I also am learning more about how to stand up for myself in those situations. I hope I never allow another person to say that they know my own motivations or thoughts better than I do myself in this way. I feel like this is an area I have to set strong boundaries for and clearly communicate them.

I can echo all of those feelings and situations- I did the exact same thing.  One that's always burned me is that my wife would clean the kitchen, but she wouldn't wipe down the counters, unload the dishwasher, etc.  And I'd say something innocent like, "I'm going to finish the kitchen before I go to bed," and she'd explode with, "You always say I don't do anything around the house and it's a lie...I worked my ass off today."  

Listening to stuff like that for 20+ years, it's amazing how much of an effect it has on our own sense of self.  The kitchen itself didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but the constant feeling of always having to choose my words so carefully because she'd fly off the handle was exhausting.  Another common thing was to make plans to do something, she'd disappear with her family, then I wouldn't get it done alone.  So I'd say, "Okay, next weekend we have to finish this."  And she'd disappear then as well, over and over again, until I'd finally be the adult in the room and mention that she's disappeared for six weekends straight.  The response?  "You always say I don't do anything around here..."

It's like the same lie applied to every aspect of our lives.  If I ask her to participate in anything involving us, she hears "you're not trying at all, you've never tired one single bit."  It was infuriating and I do not miss it at all.

In the moment, it's so hard to see the manipulation and abusive patterns.  But they were always there, even before we got married.  Everything was about her, 100% of the time, to coddle her feelings and protect her from the big, bad world.  I honestly look at her now more as a child than a spouse, just because I always had to be the adult and the mean parent...even to my own wife.

Now, even after being separated for 7 months, it's stuff like, "You've always hated my parents" or "You've never liked my family."  And I'm like, I've invited your parents on every vacation we've taken the past 5+ years, and helped them financially every chance I could.  But I must have said or did something one time to make something click into that black way of thinking, and none of us deserve that crap.

[jaded7]

Just watched this very concerning video on the topic of BPD abuse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ioePZ_xQc. I'm curious about others' experiences with this.

Which of the examples of abuse mentioned here have you experienced?
Was it during the relationship or after the break-up?
What (if anything) did you do about it?

He points out that BPD abuse and covert/vulnerable narcissism abuse are similar. This has been my experience...they look very similar (and cPTSD can look very similar to BPD).

Examples I have experienced

she did tell me about how she made a fake Facebook account to 'friend' and stalk her ex-husband (with a fake account, she made a friend request of one of his friends, who accepted, and then she went to a friend request with him with the fake account) how she researched a friend of mine on Facebook to show how wrong her political views were.

false accusations about me (about lying, about yelling at her in a car...never did that) she made a TON of accusations about her ex-husband, who she called a narcissistic abuser

hostility, condescension, explosive anger, name-calling, pointing a finger in my face in anger, mocking, mimicking, invalidation, massive gaslighting about what was she said, what I said, what happened, etc., snapping, yelling, ghosting (ignoring calls/texts for days or a week at a time). As Dr. Grande says...'reactive' anger, whenever I brought up anything, hypersensitivity to 'perceived' criticism (see below for what I tried)


During or after:

During


What did I do?

-Tried setting boundaries, gently and with love, around ghosting, ignoring calls or texts for days on end- said that I find it hurtful, confusing since she says she loves me, felt dehumanizing------>explosion. Failed, ended up with me being yelled at, chastised, mocked, put down, called names and then stormed out on in a public space.

-Tried setting boundaries around yelling-----> she seemed to understand, acknowledged and listed the times, then proceeded to begin yelling at me again within just a couple of weeks (accompanied by put downs, mocking, name calling, a great deal of anger, etc)

-Tried setting boundaries around not keeping her word regarding plans we had made, events we had made and put on a SHARED Google calendar (at her insistence, since I apparently "ruined" or first summer together by "cancelling events" we had planned (simply not true, I never cancelled any event we had planned, and willingly, enthusiastically went to every event she asked me to)------->explosion when I asked her why she was going home one evening after we watched a movie when she had agreed with me weeks earlier, and we TOGETHER put in on our SHARED Google calendar, that she would spend Friday to Sunday at my house. She didn't come over Friday, texted that she wanted to watch a movie Saturday night, and then went home. Excuses were various and contradictory- "I didn't see it on the calendar" (ironic, and a total lie...she lived by her Google calendar); "I thought it was only for the day" (strange, since you didn't come over during the day on any of the days); "I didn't see it" (again, strange since you belittled me and called me a child for not keeping a Google calendar, and you lived by your Google calendar every day).

-tried asking nicely and lovingly what had happened to our physical relationship (went from 2-3x/week, with effort made on both sides to value this part) to zero...nothing...for 5-6 months, accompanied by ignoring 'bids' or requests to come over (just literally ignoring texts I sent asking her to come over, or asking what time she was coming over)------> explosion, "it's my childhood sexual abuse" causing me to feel hurt and confused, "what's so special about April 16?" (when I pointed out that the last time we were together was that day and it was late June) or "Ohhh...you wanna fight? Ok, let's fight...come on, let's go at it! I'm awake now, let's fight!" (when I again asked again in late August).

-tried to say I was a little annoyed, again with love and gentleness, when I arranged for someone to fill in for me at my business so we could have a morning together picking berries (her suggestion) and she not only cancelled it at 7am on that day (it was very light drizzle outside, she said that makes it bad for berry picking?), when I said "well, I have the morning off, let's get coffee and go for a walk". She responded with "Ok, I'll take a quick shower and give you a call". 3 HOURS later, after the morning had passed and there was no reason for me to have someone come in that morning for me, I said "I'm a little annoyed, honey. I just sat here three hours waiting for your quick shower and call, meanwhile I paid someone extra to come in this morning and they, along with me, went to some effort to give me this time"------->explosion, hour long 'fight', cancelling the walk and coffee, and long debate about the meaning of the words "Ok, I'll take a quick shower and give you a call".

[BigEasyHeart]

I can echo all of those feelings and situations- I did the exact same thing.  One that's always burned me is that my wife would clean the kitchen, but she wouldn't wipe down the counters, unload the dishwasher, etc.  And I'd say something innocent like, "I'm going to finish the kitchen before I go to bed," and she'd explode with, "You always say I don't do anything around the house and it's a lie...I worked my ass off today."  
...
Listening to stuff like that for 20+ years, it's amazing how much of an effect it has on our own sense of self.  The kitchen itself didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but the constant feeling of always having to choose my words so carefully because she'd fly off the handle was exhausting.  
...
In the moment, it's so hard to see the manipulation and abusive patterns.  

Your dishes comment reminded me of when I would say that I would do the dishes and she would do them before me. I would remind her that I would do them but she wouldn't let me. Then, she would complain that I didn't do my fair share of stuff around the house. It is like she needed to perceive that she was doing more in the relationship (whether it was true or not) in order to feel I wouldn't leave and then later this would turn into resentment toward me because she believed she was doing more. After the break-up, I found out that this pattern is common for people with disorganized/fearful avoidant attachment issues, which have a lot of overlap with BPD. The really crazy thing is that I actually enjoyed doing dishes!


Wow, there is so much there I can relate to (especially the comment about how hard it is to notice what is happening when you are 'in' it) but also I'm sorry you had 20+ years of this. In many ways, I think I had it easy comparatively and it still has effected me so much even months and months after the breakup. I can only imagine what you've had to deal with.

Thanks for sharing!

[jaded7]

Your dishes comment reminded me of when I would say that I would do the dishes and she would do them before me. I would remind her that I would do them but she wouldn't let me. Then, she would complain that I didn't do my fair share of stuff around the house. It is like she needed to perceive that she was doing more in the relationship (whether it was true or not) in order to feel I wouldn't leave and then later this would turn into resentment toward me because she believed she was doing more. After the break-up, I found out that this pattern is common for people with disorganized/fearful avoidant attachment issues, which have a lot of overlap with BPD. The really crazy thing is that I actually enjoyed doing dishes!


Wow, there is so much there I can relate to (especially the comment about how hard it is to notice what is happening when you are 'in' it) but also I'm sorry you had 20+ years of this. In many ways, I think I had it easy comparatively and it still has effected me so much even months and months after the breakup. I can only imagine what you've had to deal with.

Thanks for sharing!

I think the topic of 'dishes' and 'doing the dishes' and 'loading the dishwasher' can serve as a diagnostic tool for personality disorders, specifically NPD and BPD.

The stories I've heard on YouTube videos (Dr. Ramani, Dr. C, etc) about how these people act around dishes!

The things I experienced with my ex around dishes! The first, very first, red flag was with dishes..just a couple months into the relationship.

She invited me over for a nice dinner, I bought the food for the dinner. We enjoyed the meal, listened to music, had some wine. Very enjoyable, I felt happy and content.

After we were finished eating, I stood up to clear the dishes as a gesture of respect and to do my part in the meal. I gathered them up and took them to the sink to rinse and put in the dishwasher...suddenly...big explosion

"What are you doing? Stop that! Oh my god, stop!"

I'm fully confused and caught off guard. She continues with the exclamations, then says

"Oh my god, just put the dishes back on the table!"

So I do. We chat a little more, I'm confused. I suggest we go to the couch in the living room to relax, and she explodes, angrily gets up to angrily do the dishes in the sink. You know what that looks like. I'm sitting there stunned and I ask if I can help, she responds with some "you're a lot of help". I say I tried to do the dishes before, she responds with "What do you think, I like to wake up to dishes in the morning?" I say no, I don't think that...why would I think that? She says "And WHO PUTS DISHES BACK on the table?"

I say, "but...you told me to?"

[Pook075]

Your dishes comment reminded me of when I would say that I would do the dishes and she would do them before me. I would remind her that I would do them but she wouldn't let me. Then, she would complain that I didn't do my fair share of stuff around the house. It is like she needed to perceive that she was doing more in the relationship (whether it was true or not) in order to feel I wouldn't leave and then later this would turn into resentment toward me because she believed she was doing more. After the break-up, I found out that this pattern is common for people with disorganized/fearful avoidant attachment issues, which have a lot of overlap with BPD. The really crazy thing is that I actually enjoyed doing dishes!


Wow, there is so much there I can relate to (especially the comment about how hard it is to notice what is happening when you are 'in' it) but also I'm sorry you had 20+ years of this. In many ways, I think I had it easy comparatively and it still has effected me so much even months and months after the breakup. I can only imagine what you've had to deal with.

Thanks for sharing!

I can completely relate.  She repainted my office shortly before we broke up, and I came in three different times to help.  Each time, I was chased out of the room saying I didn't need to paint because of my back.  Once she finished though, I heard 50x how I didn't do any of the painting in my own office- it was a lose/lose scenario no matter what.

Side note- I've thought hard about repainting my office a different color just to trigger her the next time she stops by.  I'm not going to though because that's being mean just to be mean.  I constantly have to remind myself that mental illness is not her fault and I shouldn't hold it against her, even though it destroyed my life.

I think the topic of 'dishes' and 'doing the dishes' and 'loading the dishwasher' can serve as a diagnostic tool for personality disorders, specifically NPD and BPD.

The stories I've heard on YouTube videos (Dr. Ramani, Dr. C, etc) about how these people act around dishes!

The things I experienced with my ex around dishes! The first, very first, red flag was with dishes..just a couple months into the relationship.

She invited me over for a nice dinner, I bought the food for the dinner. We enjoyed the meal, listened to music, had some wine. Very enjoyable, I felt happy and content.

After we were finished eating, I stood up to clear the dishes as a gesture of respect and to do my part in the meal. I gathered them up and took them to the sink to rinse and put in the dishwasher...suddenly...big explosion

"What are you doing? Stop that! Oh my god, stop!"

I'm fully confused and caught off guard. She continues with the exclamations, then says

"Oh my god, just put the dishes back on the table!"

So I do. We chat a little more, I'm confused. I suggest we go to the couch in the living room to relax, and she explodes, angrily gets up to angrily do the dishes in the sink. You know what that looks like. I'm sitting there stunned and I ask if I can help, she responds with some "you're a lot of help". I say I tried to do the dishes before, she responds with "What do you think, I like to wake up to dishes in the morning?" I say no, I don't think that...why would I think that? She says "And WHO PUTS DISHES BACK on the table?"

I say, "but...you told me to?"

I had so many similar experiences- I'd say that I'll do something, she'd remember she didn't do it, then she'd race off to do it before I could.  Then she'd complain that I didn't help, even though she wouldn't let me help.  It's all mental instability over the guilt and shame of not being productive.

[BigEasyHeart]

I had so many similar experiences- I'd say that I'll do something, she'd remember she didn't do it, then she'd race off to do it before I could.  Then she'd complain that I didn't help, even though she wouldn't let me help.  It's all mental instability over the guilt and shame of not being productive.

Wow, does that ever resonate. A few days before breaking up with me out of the blue, my ex asked me to feed her cat. I was doing a million things and didn't get to it right away but I distinctly remember passing the bowl and making a mental note to do it. Then, she got to it before me. During the breakup, she brought this up. She said she asked me to feed her cat and I didn't do it, and that this was as an example of how I neglected her animal and that was similar to how I treated her. When she was telling me all this it was like I was talking to a different person. Her eyes were cold and her face was almost expressionless. I believe this was a period of dissociation and splitting. It was really weird and scary.

It's amazing (and really sad) how similar many of these stories are but it makes me feel a bit less insane and alone to read them.

[SaltyDawg]

I think the topic of 'dishes' and 'doing the dishes' and 'loading the dishwasher' can serve as a diagnostic tool for personality disorders, specifically NPD and BPD.

The stories I've heard on YouTube videos (Dr. Ramani, Dr. C, etc) about how these people act around dishes!

The things I experienced with my ex around dishes! The first, very first, red flag was with dishes..just a couple months into the relationship.

She invited me over for a nice dinner, I bought the food for the dinner. We enjoyed the meal, listened to music, had some wine. Very enjoyable, I felt happy and content.

After we were finished eating, I stood up to clear the dishes as a gesture of respect and to do my part in the meal. I gathered them up and took them to the sink to rinse and put in the dishwasher...suddenly...big explosion

"What are you doing? Stop that! Oh my god, stop!"

I'm fully confused and caught off guard. She continues with the exclamations, then says

"Oh my god, just put the dishes back on the table!"

So I do. We chat a little more, I'm confused. I suggest we go to the couch in the living room to relax, and she explodes, angrily gets up to angrily do the dishes in the sink. You know what that looks like. I'm sitting there stunned and I ask if I can help, she responds with some "you're a lot of help". I say I tried to do the dishes before, she responds with "What do you think, I like to wake up to dishes in the morning?" I say no, I don't think that...why would I think that? She says "And WHO PUTS DISHES BACK on the table?"

I say, "but...you told me to?"

#MeToo; however, it is not limited to dishes, it also extends to making the bed, doing laundry, trash, and other really quick to do chores, and then they exclaim look how much they have done for the relationship; however, they do nothing to very little to address the other persons love language as they think they are filling their partner's love language with 'acts of service' when in fact they aren't.

Do you have the links to the 'dishs' for Dr. Ramani and other You Tubers?  I am very much interested in seeing those.

Other areas of abuse that I have experienced 'abuse' from my pwBPD:

• Attempted Self Murder - Suicide Attempts - 6 of them with instruments of death of 10" kitchen knive, 12" old school scissors as a dagger, Pills, and car keys.
• Domestic Violence - 5 incidents, mainly punching and kicking, I'm not including shoving in the count, but that has happened too
• Projected violence by smacking the crap out of the wall
• Making false accusations of child abuse against our children
• Making unreasonable demands of me
• Demanding and Expecting me to put everything aside and meet their needs
• Being dissatisfied no matter how hard I try or how much I give
• Criticizing me for not completing tasks according to their standards
• Expecting me to share their opinions (I am not permitted to have a different opinion) as if it were my own
• Demanding that I name exact dates and times when discussing things that upset me
(when I cannot do this, they dismisses the event as if it never happened), they tell me to record them to prove my statements
• Undermining, dismissing, or distorting my perceptions or my reality [Gaslighting, transference, projection of emotions and/or events]
• Refusing to accept my feelings by trying to define how I should feel
• Requiring me to explain and explain and explain how I feel
• Accusing me of being "too sensitive," "too emotional," or I "need to be fixed"
• Refusing to acknowledge or accept my opinions or ideas as valid
• Dismissing my requests, wants, and needs as ridiculous or unmerited
• Suggesting that my perceptions are wrong or that I cannot be trusted by saying
things like "you're blowing this out of proportion" or "you exaggerate"
• Accusing me of being selfish, needy if I express my wants and/or needs
(the expectation is that I should not have wants or needs)

Emotionally abusive people create chaos including:
• Starting arguments for the sake of arguing or distracting from the real issue(s)
• Making confusing and contradictory statements (sometimes called "crazy-making")
• Having drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts [0-100% in under a second, including irrational rages] that can last from several minutes to several hours
• Nitpicking at at small stuff, again to distract for the real issue(s)
• Behaving so erratically and unpredictably that I feel like I am "walking on
eggshells" or in more severe cases "walking on hand grenades".

Emotionally abusive people use emotional blackmail. Some examples include:
• Manipulating and controlling me by utilizing Fear, [moral] Obligation, Guilt (F.O.G.)
• Humiliating me in public and/or in private
• Using my fears, values, compassion or other hot buttons to control me or the situation
• Exaggerating my flaws or pointing them out in order to deflect attention or to avoid
taking responsibility for their poor choices or mistakes or the real issue(s)
• Denying that an event took place or lying about it [Gaslighting]
• Punishing me by withholding affection, this is a biggie against me.

Emotionally abusive people act superior and entitled. Some examples include:
• Treating my like I am inferior, or I don't even exist
• Blaming me for their mistakes and shortcomings
• Doubting everything I say and attempting to prove me wrong
• Making jokes at my expense, or belittling sarcasm
• Telling me that my opinions, ideas, values and thoughts are stupid, illogical or "do not
make sense"
• Talking down to me and/or being condescending
• Using sarcasm when interacting with me
• Acting like they are always right, knows what is best and is smarter
• Mumble under their breath implying that I do not satisfy them

My pwBPD tries to isolate and control me.
• Controlling who I see or spend time with including time with friends [predominately and family [occasionally]
• Accusing me of cheating and being jealous of outside relationships
• Demanding to know where I am at all times and that I phone or text them whenever I move locations
• Criticizing or making fun of my friends, family, and aquaintences
• Using jealousy and envy as a sign of 'love' and to keeps me from being with others
• Coercing me into spending all of my time to meet her unreasonable needs
• Controlling the finances, she can spend big bucks, I am criticized for spending less than $10.  She has an app that tracks my credit card purchases - financial abuse.

I am sure I missed many other instances of abuse, but that covers a good bit of it.

So, yes, borderline 'abuse' is real, at least it is for me.

[SinisterComplex]

Abuse is not a grey area. I understand there are different cultural norms and different conditioned responses. However, I will use an example from a professional athlete...Adrian Peterson. One of the greatest running backs who ever played American football. He was disciplined (suspended and fined) for beating his kid with what is called a switch (think of a flexible rod or stick with split ends that create a snapping effect when used to hit). He was disciplined the same way as a child. Now to cut to the chase...just because it happened to him as a kid does not make it okay for him to do it to his children. The unfortunate reality is that he beat the dog S out of his kid. On no planet or realm of existence is that ever acceptable or okay. That is abuse. It is a pretty cut and dry straight to the point black or white thing...Abuse is Abuse and it comes in many forms. This is where you have to be self-aware. How do you feel? How do the other's actions make you feel? Is it a repeated behavior?

I understand you were bringing up abuse as it pertains to BPD, but my point is that the circumstances essentially do not matter...abuse isn't something that is situational or up for debate.

If another's actions cause you discomfort do not ever hesitate to stand up for yourself and call them on their S ! Never live in fear and let it control you or cripple you.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Pook075]

Her eyes were cold and her face was almost expressionless. I believe this was a period of dissociation and splitting. It was really weird and scary.

Oh my gosh, that gave me chills- I had the exact same experience.  In my wife's case, she didn't remember a good bit of what she said during those conversations either.  I'd bring stuff up the next day and she'd insist I was making it up to hurt her.

Maybe that is dissociation; I'd never thought about it like that.  But the first month or two after breaking up, she'd say she loves me and wants to come home, go to therapy, work things out, whatever...then 12 hours later she'd say the exact opposite or claim she never said that stuff.  It was scary and a major mind-&%#.

At least we understand some of that stuff now- so many people never have any idea what the heck is going on.

[thisisallsotough]

I told my borderline ex that she was "emotionally abusive" after 4 years and she was like "then we should break up" and so we did. I had considered it emotional abuse for a while, and I was starting to kind of subconsciously avoid her, because she was always yelling at me for perceived slights that didn't exist, or lashing out at me to make me hurt.

The cycle that I thought was particularly abusive and which is hard to get over is the cycle of 1. She lashes out at me in public. 2. In private I tell her calmly that it bothered me and ask her not to do it again.  She says it was an accident, and I try to set boundaries so that it won't happen again 3. She publicly and usually immediately goes after those boundaries. 4. In private I tell her calmly not to break my boundaries... She breaks them... repeat, repeat. Finally, I just feel so gaslit by her trampling my boundaries so deliberately that I explode at her, which might even be what she wants. We have a big fight and I end up apologizing for losing my temper. Then everything is fine for a while, until she lashes out again about something new.

I'm really having to fight hard against a new itch to assume all women I meet are like her. I know this is a silly thought, but I'm on like red alert against any gaslighting, any intentional slight.

[SinisterComplex]

I told my borderline ex that she was "emotionally abusive" after 4 years and she was like "then we should break up" and so we did. I had considered it emotional abuse for a while, and I was starting to kind of subconsciously avoid her, because she was always yelling at me for perceived slights that didn't exist, or lashing out at me to make me hurt.

The cycle that I thought was particularly abusive and which is hard to get over is the cycle of 1. She lashes out at me in public. 2. In private I tell her calmly that it bothered me and ask her not to do it again.  She says it was an accident, and I try to set boundaries so that it won't happen again 3. She publicly and usually immediately goes after those boundaries. 4. In private I tell her calmly not to break my boundaries... She breaks them... repeat, repeat. Finally, I just feel so gaslit by her trampling my boundaries so deliberately that I explode at her, which might even be what she wants. We have a big fight and I end up apologizing for losing my temper. Then everything is fine for a while, until she lashes out again about something new.

I'm really having to fight hard against a new itch to assume all women I meet are like her. I know this is a silly thought, but I'm on like red alert against any gaslighting, any intentional slight.

You should have your guard up...that is called just being smart. However, thinking all women are like that...don't do that. I have a personal friend of mine who I sometimes have to rip into because of his asinine thinking that all women are crazy. He also doesn't believe in mental health professionals and is relatively hard-headed, but yet also co-dependent with poor boundaries. He won't take responsibility for his weak boundaries and his S behavior that has led to him attracting the crazy women. He settles out of fear and desperation. He is a good dude, but his refusal to understand how powerful mind sets and perspectives can be is usually a point of contention when him and I speak. And typically he comes to me now to complain about his relationship because he is just now understanding and accepting that BPD is a real thing. Having a positive attitude and strong mind set can help you immensely. It's not a cure-all but sure as hell is a great start and step in the right direction. Drill this into your head...Want Better, Expect Better, Do Better!

If you can learn to call someone out on their S when they violate a boundary and be ok with walking away and severing ties if necessary then you will grow into a powerful individual. That will help you attract the right kind of people. Keep positive people around you and distance yourself or cut ties with the people who bring you down and do not enhance your life. Always think...do you like you? Would you want to be with you? If you cannot answer those questions confidently and instantly then you know you have a lot of work to do on yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[yellowbutterfly]

I'm really having to fight hard against a new itch to assume all women I meet are like her. I know this is a silly thought, but I'm on like red alert against any gaslighting, any intentional slight.

I made myself a list of "BPD/NPD" red flags to watch out for during future dating. Maybe that is a good idea for you too. It's hard not to get wrapped up in the idea a partner could be like your ex as you've been through some serious abuse.

For reference, I am a woman, not BPD, and was severely abused by my stbx H uBPD. It can happen with any gender. It's scary to think others out there might hurt us in the future BUT you have control over on whom you spend your time and energy.

[SinisterComplex]

I made myself a list of "BPD/NPD" red flags to watch out for during future dating. Maybe that is a good idea for you too. It's hard not to get wrapped up in the idea a partner could be like your ex as you've been through some serious abuse.

For reference, I am a woman, not BPD, and was severely abused by my stbx H uBPD. It can happen with any gender. It's scary to think others out there might hurt us in the future BUT you have control over on whom you spend your time and energy.

YB...I sincerely feel for you specifically because what you went through it wouldn't surprise me if you thought all men were evil and bad. Although I do think you see the monster does not discriminate as it comes both in the male and female physical form.

You keep your head up and keep moving forward to. There is the light at the end of the tunnel for you and I truly believe happiness and success will find you.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[SaltyDawg]

I made myself a list of "BPD/NPD" red flags to watch out for during future dating.

People have already made lists of red flags.

I am going to add [in addition to hundreds in the links to lists below]:

+being seduced sexually on the first date [not expected to happen] with hypersexual behaviors.  [indicates abandonment / self harm issues with the cause of childhood/adolescent sexual abuse]
+your pwBPD has a messed up extended family: they have more than one, in other words two or more close family members who are/were estranged them from their parents [indicates high conflict childhood issues]
+your pwBPD indicates that they have been raped two times, by two different men, as a teen and have given up a 'rape baby' for adoption.
+your pwBPD indicates that they had their BF killed with a self-inflicted gunshot wound [in a hunting accident].

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=353716.0;all
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329294.0;all
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334928.0

And Red5, who speaks in the borderline 'riddles' made another additional set of short lists at: 
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=355093.0

Famous lines Red-flag:
*I feel safe with you.
*All I ever wanted was a Prince Charming to take care of me.
*You handled me well.
*My ex-fiancée knew how to treat a woman, YOU DON'T!
*I am tired of one-night stands, I am ready for a long-term, steady relationship.
*We are going to just date, we are NOT going to get married.
*You are a quiet and peaceful man.

Additional insight...
*Accountability (relationship) = 'controlling' to a p/wbpd/npd
*Boundaries (held) = 'abuse' to a p/wbpd/npd
*eternal victimhood, ... enables perpetual entitlement*

[Pook075]

I made myself a list of "BPD/NPD" red flags to watch out for during future dating. Maybe that is a good idea for you too. It's hard not to get wrapped up in the idea a partner could be like your ex as you've been through some serious abuse.

For reference, I am a woman, not BPD, and was severely abused by my stbx H uBPD. It can happen with any gender. It's scary to think others out there might hurt us in the future BUT you have control over on whom you spend your time and energy.

I've started to meet women online, just seeing the possibilities, but I catch myself all the time seeing a reaction to something and thinking, "Oh gosh, does she have BPD too?"  I think it's very easy to over-react internally and it's something I'm going to have to work on.  It's very hard to trust after we've all been betrayed to this extreme. 

At the same time though, there's no moving on without putting our hearts out there once again and trusting.