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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Should I feel guilty ?  (Read 593 times)
Felly

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« on: April 03, 2023, 10:49:04 AM »

The full story of me (34M) and my estranged wife (34F). Should I feel guilty for wanting to end this relationship? Could I or should I have done more? How much blame do I deserve ?


We met in middle school. Stayed friends all through HS. Not super close, but always friendly. Hung around the same people. She starts dating a 30 year old, when she’s 20. She claims he abused her and beat her for 10 years. The guy was a coke head & steroid user. Super believable that he would abuse her. After being with her for 3 years, I started to think the abuse was way more mutual than she lead on.  

She gets out of that relationship and moves in with her best friend. Her friend is also a really good friend of mine. Wife starts dating her co-worker. He’s insecure, frail and not very attractive. But he has money. Wife needs a rebound and this guy could use some validation by dating an attractive woman. She lets him take her on multiple vacations, but they’re just not compatible. I started seeing Wife more when I was over the house hanging out with the roommate. Me and her hit it off, start flirting. Two weeks later we have sex, she’s still in a relationship with Co-Worker. We continue fooling around and she breaks up with him.

Our casual encounters turn into a serious relationship, and we fall for each other hard and quick. We’ve known each other since middle school and we just feel comfortable with each other. Same interests in music, tv and movies. Enjoy the same foods, we both want kids. It all feels so right and perfect. I remember her being and being labeled as a huge  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)/ Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) in HS but I was surprised to see that really wasn’t the case. She seemed so caring and loving. She actually had me convinced that her friend was the bad roommate and inconsiderate friend. I propose after 1 year together and we get married 8 months later.

I have a son from a one night stand. Me and Co-Parent were never together. She didn’t want to get an abortion and I’m not a POS. So we became co-parents, and good friends. She’s a great Mom and my son is currently 6 years old. One month after proposing, me and Wife have our first big fight. I get a peak into her sick mind. It’s Christmas time and we don’t have a lot of money. We agree that I will buy my side gifts and put it from both of us. She will do the same for her side. Well a week or two before Christmas, she discovers that I bought gifts for CoParent, her mom and her sister. Just some candy and some socks, nothing crazy. I can see her face change and her brain short circuit when she sees what I bought.

“How dare you buy them presents but you can’t spend any money on my family?” This is what we both agreed upon. She goes off. Saying I want to be with CoParent and I’m just using her to buy me stuff and pay for things. She wants to break up with me so I can be with the family I really want to be with. I end up apologizing, even tho I don’t feel like I did anything wrong. I scrape $100 together to give her parents a gift card for dinner. We didn’t fight often, but it was always toxic when it occurred.

On our honeymoon in Vegas, we invited friends to celebrate. We got drunk and she slapped me because I wouldn't call an Uber. I was so drunk I couldn't even work a phone. She knows she could've called the Uber and shoved me in it. I think I wasn't paying her enough attention. The next morning she's still mad and we argue more. She starts packing her bags. Says shes flying home, this was a mistake. We're getting annulled, I'm not marrying a man that yells at me. I apologize, we get lunch and finally enjoy the rest of the honeymoon.

We have multiple fights like this. She’s pissed off. I can tell she’s mad, but she won’t tell my why and insists everything is fine. Finally she explodes and breaks things in the apartment. Huge TV smashed on the ground, Lit candles thrown at the wall. Pictures broken, old trophies. Recently she took all of my clothes out of the dresser and made a pile on the floor in the living room. She said “At least I didn’t break anything.” That’s the bar that’s been set. I need to be appreciative of the fact that she didn’t break my stuff because I did something that she deemed “bad” or “wrong." I continue with this relationship because I love her. I don't realize I'm being abused and manipulated.

We have been trying to conceive for about a year, but she keeps getting her period, which leads to depression. Finally, she gets pregnant, but a week later, she miscarries. I did my absolute best to support her through the difficult time, but it was exhausting at times. I'm also trying to grieve this loss, while also being there and being strong for her. I told her how much I loved her. Promised we'd get through anything to start a family. I reassured her I wasn't going to leave her if she wasn't able to conceive, that was a big fear of hers. I did everything I could to make her feel better. To make her feel worthy of happiness and love. She felt like a failure and it killed me to watch her hate herself. A few weeks after the miscarriage, I suggested she get therapy. I offered to go with her. She makes an appointment but it's too little, too late.

Our final fight, 6 weeks after the miscarriage. I’m having a busy day at work. She texts me that she’s feeling like the miscarriage is over and she’s excited to start trying again. She’s ovulating and wants to start trying today. I don’t see it bc I’m busy at work. Before I get to answer her, she says “nvm forget I even said anything.” I call her as soon as I see it, reassure her that nothing has changed. But I also inform her that I want to goto the gym after work today. That sends her further down the spiral. Now I’m choosing my friends over starting a family. After work I go home, instead of the gym. She’s barricaded herself in the bedroom with laundry baskets. I push through it and get in bed with her to cuddle and console her a bit. She turns away from me. I decide I’m not doing this, so I go sit on the couch. We argue on and off the rest of the night. She’s texting me from the room, coming out occasionally to argue with me in person. She divorces me on Facebook. I say she’s used to dating toxic guys like Abuser and CoWorker. She takes that, twists it and now is saying I told her she deserves to get beaten. She goes online and posts that I said she deserves to get beaten, making a big spectacle of the whole thing. I’m sick of engaging with her so I just stay on the couch to get some sleep. She texts me some bs gaslighting apology about how she’s sorry I think this, and she's sorry I feel that. She’s sorry I can’t handle her grief. She thinks I’m not a bad guy, I’m just not mature enough to handle such a trauma. I ignore it and get some sleep on the couch.

She comes out of the bedroom around 6am and says you’re not gonna answer me ? I tell her no, I didn’t feel like answering her bs apology. She goes into the kitchen and eats a handful of benzos and chugs tequila. Says she just wants to die. I denied her a baby on her ovulation and now she just wants to die. I tell her to please stop. She tries to leave to go kill herself. I grab her and bring her back inside. She grabs the pills again and I get to her before she eats them. She has a handful in her fist and I won’t let go of her wrist. She’s crying saying “just let me die, just let me die.” I put her in bed in hopes the booze and benzos will knock her out. I googled it and she didn’t take a lethal dose. She wakes up and is even more mad now that she’s rested. She gets dressed and leaves. Says she’s going to kill herself.

I call 911 and tell them to go on the lookout for her. Officers and a social worker come to my apartment. They get her on the phone and ask her to come back and talk to someone. She says she’ll be back in 15 mins but never shows. They ping her cell phone and she’s at her mom’s house in a different town. She calls me from there and says she’s writing her last suicide note. She’s gonna take a whole bottle of her dads blood pressure pills and finish the job. I call 911 again in a panic. I call her back and stay on with her till the police show up. The cops take her to the hospital for a psych evaluation and I feel a little sense of relief. She’s texting me threats on her way there. She’s gonna expose me as a phony so the whole world knows it, then kill herself. She’s gonna do everything in her power to ruin my life because I took hers. I ignore the threats. I tell her I love her and I just want her to be ok. Asking her to please not hurt herself. I’m relieved she’s finally going to get evaluated. I’m hoping they’ll see she’s unwell and keep her there. Then I can go see her and be there for her. She’s gonna get the help she needs and we’ll get through this. I call her mom and tell her what’s going on. She goes to the hospital and I tell her to let me know what happens.

To my dismay and surprise, she gets out a few hours later. She texts my sister that I got her locked up by the cops for no reason and I told her to go get beat up some more. Texts me, asking if I’m home bc she’s going to get her stuff. I’m stunned she got out. I call her mom and ask her why she let her go on her own. Her mom tells me that she’s hearing two different versions of the story, and that her daughter seems fine. Wife calls me from the apt and says I need to go there. Because of what I did to her, she deserves to tell me to my face what she wants to say. I say let’s talk at your moms, I don’t want to be alone with you. Let’s talk in a day or two. She puts me on speakerphone and smashes the 3 glass tables in our living room. Throws a small tv through one, my gaming monitor through another one and knocked over a bookcase. I’m at a friends house, so I call 911 and rush home.

I get there and the cops are already there. All they can do is remove her and send her off to her moms. While she’s on her way there she’s texting and calling. Fighting with me more. I’m sitting in my wrecked apartment with broken glass everywhere, completely in shock. She’s still trying to argue with me and I’m doing my best to de-escalate. Things finally start calming down. We’re in agreement that the relationship is over. She tells me we'll get divorced at my own pace, when I can afford it. She’s gonna stay at her parents. I apologize for bringing up the name Abuser and she thanked me for that. She apologizes for getting mad when I didn’t answer her text fast enough. I say that the whole fight doesn’t happen if she doesn’t get mad at me for that. So let’s get some therapy together and start a f'ing family. She says no, what’s done is done. I say fine, I’m going to get some rest. The offer is on the table.

When I wake up the next morning, Thursday. I see that she has gone online after I went to sleep. She went on FB and IG and made a bunch of posts trashing me and putting words I never said in quotation marks. I decide that’s enough, I’m not engaging with her anymore. She texts me that she’s on the way to the house and she got me breakfast. I’m terrified, I don’t want to be alone with her. I pack a bag and run out. She texts me when she gets there and says so much for therapy and a family. Everything you say is a lie.

She spends the entire day threatening me saying she’s going to talk to CoParent and I’m never going to see my son again. She’s going to call my job and tell her I abused her. She’s going to call my clients and tell them what I did. She actually did call CoParent and my job, but not my clients. She also sent pictures of bruises to an Ex-GF of mine, implying that I abused her. I do not respond to anything she says so she destroys the entire apartment. Breaks everything. Her stuff, my stuff, apartment property. She goes insane. Texting me tons of threats and non stop harassment.

“This is what happens when you don’t communicate.”
“All of this because you wouldn’t F ME.”

She cut up all my credit cards and completely trashed the apartment. Breaks all of my belongings there. She sent me a video when she was done. Explaining exactly what I did wrong to deserve her destroying everything. Telling me I’m an insecure little boy, afraid to own up to any accountability. I let her go insane, dig her own grave. While she’s doing that, I go get a restraining order against her.

The next morning, Friday. She’s texting me apologetic now. “If I take everything off social media, will you talk to me?” Sending me pictures of us being happy together. Begging me to just talk to her. She just wants to hear my voice, even if it’s to tell her I suck. Even in her “apologies”, there’s no remorse for what she’s done. She hasn’t apologized for breaking my stuff, for calling my job, for calling my CoParent, for lying at the hospital, for trashing me online. Instead, she’s trying to bribe me with her parents money. We can live rent free, they’ll pay your debts. We can fix this, it’s your choice. I still ignore. She’s at the apartment begging me to go there. I don’t go there, the cops go there and serve her with the restraining order. She puts up a sign on the front door that says

“Abused his wife bc she had a miscarriage.”

She finally stops harassing me, bc she’ll go to jail if she doesn’t. Instead of harassing me direct now, she’s taken to the internet. Posting about how narcissists are never sorry and all these other things, clearly directed at me. I haven’t responded to anything she said online and I will not be. She’s posted about 20 different stories in total. Showing the world what a complete psycho she is. We grew up in the same town. Everyone knows she's a lil crazy and I'm pretty chill. Nobody believes that I would say those things to my wife, that I was madly in love with. Things like “you deserved worse than a miscarriage.” Horrible things I wouldn’t say to my worst enemy.

**If you’ve made it this far, I truly thank you for reading all this. I’ve been typing it for days, and it’s been therapeutic to get it all out of my head.**


I’ve decided that I can no longer trust her and I filed for divorce, but it’s killing me. I just want to know, did I do the right thing by filing? Was there something I could’ve done differently along the way to avoid all this? Was this an inevitability from the start? My therapist says I take too much responsibility for things, but I wanted to hear from people that have been through the same thing. Thank you for your time and advice, I truly appreciate you.









« Last Edit: April 03, 2023, 07:42:02 PM by Turkish, Reason: Guideline 1.8, language and terminology » Logged
Cat Familiar
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2023, 06:18:21 PM »

You are lucky to get out before any children were conceived. You really dodged a bullet.

She obviously had earned her high school reputation.

These circumstances that she has created are extreme. And should you have been in her path while she was dysregulating as she trashed your apartment…it could have gone so badly…how much self control did she have at that time? This type of event could have turned into something covered on the evening news.

I divorced a reckless and abusive BPD husband, and though he behaved uncivilly, to undersell it significantly, he still had a measure of self control, which appears to be lacking in your situation.

Though the divorce was messy, to say the least, I was so grateful to finally be rid of him. I’ve never once had a moment of regret.



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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2023, 06:29:34 PM »

I’ve decided that I can no longer trust her and I filed for divorce, but it’s killing me. I just want to know, did I do the right thing by filing?

Yes.

Was there something I could’ve done differently along the way to avoid all this?

No.

Was this an inevitability from the start?

Almost certainly, but at first you had too few clues.  Once she started raging and destroying furniture, etc, that should have been the point to call a serious time out, perhaps even getting a protection order.  You stayed in for much longer than it was practical or even safe to keep trying.

You are much like us Nice Guys and Nice Gals... we don't realize when we need to stop trying and need to see problems for what they are and that it is time to get safe.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2023, 06:34:55 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

Turkish
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2023, 07:46:22 PM »

If you were in danger, then so would have been a baby. Additionally, exposing a child to DV is a crime, even if you are the target. This all was  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)^ Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) power. I'm glad that you're safe.

An occasional breakage is not right, but at least occasional. She snapped multiple times and epically.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Felly

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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2023, 08:50:58 AM »

Thank you for the kind responses. I’ve been reading many stories on here so similar to mine. Its made me more at peace with my decision to end things, everything I’ve read leads me to believe things will only get worse. Now I’m prepared for an ugly battle in court, praying it doesn’t get that far. She’s openly admitted to being unstable. I don’t understand how she can’t recognize that’s she’s having episodes and needs to get help. Thanks again for taking the time to read my whole story.
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2023, 12:30:20 PM »

From a legal perspective, divorce (or final separation if not married) is mostly about two major aspects plus additional legal issues.

  • If children, then custody, parenting schedule and child support
  • If joint property or finances, then separating them based on each person's financial status and other negotiations
  • Depending on the length of marriage and each person's financial resources (including savings versus debts), whether and how long to order spousal support or alimony
  • Whether substantive or documented DV or abuse allegations have been made and the outcome

Court will give little credence, if any, to hurt feelings, neediness, loneliness, guilt, etc.  Court is there to unwind the legal aspects of a marriage or relationship, virtually everything else lands in the realm of each individual's counseling or therapy.

I suggest you ponder your various concerns and separate the legal and financial issues apart from - what appears to be your dilemma - the feelings and emotions.
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Felly

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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2023, 12:39:38 PM »

I’m hoping to settle this out of court. Everything I’ve been reading about BPD is making me want to be more prepared for a fight if she doesn’t want to settle.I have a temporary restraining order against her now. It becomes final if I go through with it at court in a few weeks. I told my lawyers to send a settlement proposal along these lines:

She pays whatever is owed at the apartment. Lease termination fees, etc.
She pays me my security back as well, since I didn’t wreck this place. She did.
She owes me $1500. I have in confirmed in a text and I want that.
She pays for my legal fees. I didn’t want any of this but she left me no choice but to defend myself.
She pays for all the stuff of mine she broke
She pays some extra for damages. Pain and suffering, trauma, displacing me and my son (he stays here every other weekend. Has his own bedroom)

If we can come to terms, I’ll drop the restraining order and she won’t have to be entered into a DV Database. I’m almost certain she’d lose her license to work too. She’s in the medical field, a step or two under an RN.  She’d be getting off easy and it would  be dumb not to take it. Especially since it’s her parents paying for everything. I doubt she’ll get the help she needs but whatever. Won’t be my problem anymore.
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2023, 01:03:13 PM »

Most of us never were able to break even financially.  Privately be prepared to take some amount of financial loss.  You can always start by asking for what's fair, but don't expect much if any compensation for pain and suffering.  That's what negotiations are all about.

The ultimate goal is to make a clean break and move on with your life.
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Turkish
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2023, 08:51:50 PM »

Agreed with FD. You can ask for all and negotiate down to give the other side a win. You'll likely not get moral justice by compensation. That said, I'd hold the line at this if it were me.

Excerpt
She pays whatever is owed at the apartment. Lease termination fees, etc.
She pays me my security back as well, since I didn’t wreck this place. She did.

Wanting the $1500 is good, but be wary of your emotions.

I bought my ex a $40k SUV in 2013, just before she started cheating. I was a co-signer because i had better credit. She felt that she couldn't take over payments and also wanted a hybrid. I put $1k down on a $25k hybrid for her and took a loss on the SUV of the $15k I put down. I did get a few thousand back from the extended warranty and service agreements which I told her not to get. I worked in Quality and I know those are wastes of money.

I also let her live with us rent free (not that I had previously asked her much, only $300/mo for mortgage and utilities on a $2k/mo mortgage, not including utilities) for 4 months so she could save up to move out. All the while she conducted her r/s out of the home. It killed me emotionally.

I also gave her a $3k cash "serverance." Note: we weren't married and she wasn't on the home title because I put up the money to buy it.

The point was to get her out and our lives severed financially.
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2023, 09:34:23 PM »

I was surprised to learn that many here did reach settlements and not decisions by trial.  I too ended my marriage with a last minute settlement on Trial Day.  However, what motivated us both to settle was that no one could predict how a trial would turn out.  As it was described to me, court wants us all to fear and avoid a trial, as though we both would lose.  (And a settlement saves the court's limited time so it can move on to the rest of its caseload.)

That said, once your are divorced, the BPD factor means you cut all ties thereafter.  When BPD or some other acting-out PD is involved, remaining friends and good buddies is not an option.  If you want closure, that will have to be something you Gift Yourself.  Let Go & Move On.
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Turkish
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Posts: 12131


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2023, 10:31:44 PM »

Addressed to any lurkers: we settled the child custody and support stipulation avoiding going to court, though the stip/CS still had to be filed and signed by a judge. Avoid court if you can.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
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