Mother in law with BPD

[jyllis]

I'm looking for a place to go for support with my MIL's illness. I am no longer leaning on my sister in law who was the one person who went through years of abuse along with me. My SIL and her husband have been No Contact with the MIL for 3 years now to avoid the stress, so I choose not to involve her in my ongoing experience. My husband is only recently understanding that there is a diagnosis for his mom's state of mind, as opposed to her just being "mean" and "crazy", something he's been able to shrug off up until now. When I talk to him about her behavior I am there to support him, but I need support to and don't know where to turn.

[Methuen]

Welcome jyllis,

You've come to a good place for support.

It's a good thing that you H acknowledges your MIL's behavior as being problematic, and isn't defensive of her. 

Can you tell us a little more about her abusive behavior towards you?  What kinds of things does she do?  Do you have strategies for how you react and respond to her?  What works, what doesn't work? How does your H fit into the dynamic?

[livednlearned]

Having an in-law with BPD can be really tricky, especially if the blood relation is making the dynamic worse than it needs to be.

It sounds like your husband is open to seeing what drives some of these behaviors.

Are you the one who is primarily engaging MIL?

Did something specific happen to drive your SIL and BIL to become no contact, or was it more cumulative abuse over time?

[jyllis]

Thank you very much for getting back with me. It can be challenging for me to know where even to begin to summarize succinctly what her behavior has been during my time with the family, which has been 20 years. So I will lean on one specific example, which represents countless others.

My H and I kept our wedding very small, largely because of the hurt and drama my MIL had caused before, during, and after, her other son's wedding years before. Their wedding had been a nightmare.

 For [our wedding my H and I chose to host dinner in lieu of a reception. The dinner was for 15 people including us. After we'd started making plans for it, my MIL offered to pay for the dinner. At first my H said no way, knowing that would end up being troublesome.

It wasn't long before he gave in. And not long after that, her terms were that she would only pay if she decided on the restaurant. We hadn't asked her to pay in the first place and now because she was trying to take over, I asked my husband to please let her know we appreciated the offer but wanted to choose for ourselves.

Because letting her have her way has always been easier and what my H has been used to doing, he decided just to let her choose, which caused problems between he and I. I felt like he was siding w/ her over me.

Shortly before the wedding, because she was unhappy with our plans for the ceremony she told us she'd no longer be paying for the dinner and wouldn't be attending the wedding unless we let her "fix" the things she wasn't happy with. So we were stuck with reservations at a restaurant that was not our choice. We also hadn't factored in paying the bill last minute.

Long story shorter, my parents had since let us know they were happy to take care of the dinner as our wedding gift. My MIL decided to go to the wedding but was scowling and mopey the whole time.

Once we were all at the restaurant she told my parents that she and her husband would pick up the bar tab. My parents declined but she insisted and got her way. Noticeably, after one drink, we were no longer being served. To cut down on length, I'm leaving out details of how it was confirmed that she had gone to the server and got him to cut us off. This was after a single drink each at a celebratory dinner.

She rolled her eyes during the toasts. She sent back her food multiple times after loudly complaining, eventually saying "I'll just go to bed hungry." She refused to have a piece of cake saying that she didn't "know what was in it". She doesn't have food allergies. My parents had purchased the cake.

The following morning, early, while we were still in bed, she called my H from the lobby of our honeymoon suite in tears, and demanding our room number. My H gave her the room number, and she was knocking on our door moments later. I was upset with my H for giving her our room number. She had come from home to our hotel. So within 12 hours of being married she was already causing hurt feelings between my H and I.

She spent hours in our honeymoon suite crying and complaining about our ceremony, the dinner, my family, the bar tab she'd manipulated paying only to let us have one, and even insulted my wedding dress.

This is just one example to represent thousands through the years. My husband has since learned to stand up for us more. It took year after year of her coming between us. He'd let her treat me poorly because he'd block her out, and he'd let her have her way. To me it seemed like he chose her feelings, over mine. He still gives in to her sometimes but I now have more empathy towards his position.

As for how I deal with her, I avoid her at all costs and when I do agree to see her in support of my H I basically keep my mouth shut, smile politely and wait for it to be over. She does everything she can to push my buttons so it's a battle of wills when we spend time together. To make matters much worse, she and my FIL are our close neighbors, we can see each others houses and I can hear my FIL when he sneezes in the yard.

As for my BIL and his wife, they went no contact when they saw her abusive patterns intensifying with their 4 year old daughter. She was starting to push being alone with her and anytime they would make the trip to visit it was never enough and she'd punish them for not giving her more time and more access.

She to this day continues to try to break in to their home, which is an hour away, and leaves cards and "gifts" for their daughter that are meant to evoke guilt. She periodically leaves notes for my FIL that elude to her killing herself and then runs away for full days so that he worries that she's gone and harmed herself.

It's difficult for me not to just keep describing her behavior but of course I need a stopping place so that someone is willing to read this and possibly reply. I am so happy for my BIL and SIL to have stuck to their decision not to engage. That's what I want for them (and myself). At the same time it's been hard on my H to be the only one dealing with his parents and hard on me not to have my SIL to talk to anymore.

I'm spilling over with feelings so I will just post this as is. Thank you so very much for getting back with me!

[zachira]

How your MIL has treated you and other family members sounds familiar to many members here who have disordered family members. Could you tell us a little more about when you have to deal with your MIL? Are you working and not home most of the time? How often and how does she contact you? It is so hard to get away when she lives so nearby yet setting healthy boundaries are what will keep you sane, mentally and physically healthy. What kind of boundaries do you have with you MIL now? It hurts my heart to hear all you have to deal with her. We are here to listen and support you.

[livednlearned]

I am so sorry your wedding night was ruined, not to mention the countless similar stories that are probably chronic and wow, being neighbors like that. I truly cannot fathom what that's like.

This is a great place for support, whether it's to vent or look for ways to make something less bad.

What you wrote about developing empathy for your H is so similar to what happened to me. When we first moved in together, I felt exasperated because he seemed to downplay or ignore or protect bad behavior (he has an adult step child with BPD traits who lived with us, who is 26). I realized at some point I was just making things harder for him and stopped expecting him to fix her. When I took a step back, he took a step forward and revealed how aggravated he was. His ex wife has BPD and he feels devastated to now have a child exhibiting some of the same behaviors. In her case, she is more waif-like and covertly aggressive versus his ex wife who was openly abusive and overtly aggressive. His mother died before I met her but she sounds like queen-witch in her BPD behaviors.

We now live 3000 miles away from SD26. When we moved 2.5 years ago I asked him if he thought SD26 would follow us and he said without missing a beat "that cannot happen."

Still, I don't necessarily trust him to put my needs first when it comes to her, much less his.

How do you handle having your MIL live so close?

[GaGrl]

Many couples with an in-laws with BPD traits find that the first child born results in boundaries that weren't considered before, in order to protect the child. It sounds as if that is what happened with your BIL.

Having the support of a spouse makes a huge difference, for both partners. My father was strong enough to protect and support my mom, who had a stepmother who was uBPD/NPD. My SGM showed herself for directing the "baby comes home from hospital" production, insulted my other grandmother, and previewed what life would be like to live in the same city. Within six weeks, my father had transferred to a job 200 miles away and moved my mom and me out of SGM's sphere of influence. I was never allowed to be with SGM unsupervised until I was a teen and able to handle myself with her. I can't count how many times I heard my dad say to her, "That's enough, Dorothy."

If you and your H can find boundaries that work now, you may be spared having to do so after children become a consideration.

Are either of you in therapy? How to address boundaries together could be an invaluable way to use couples counseling.

[Mommydoc]

Thanks for sharing your story jylliss. Your story of the wedding upset me.  I can only imagine what you must have been feeling in those moments.   It is great that your husband has developed greater awareness of the dysfunction, and that you are supporting him.  Hopefully, you can support each other by continued study, using the resources on this forum and perhaps even couples therapy.  Having a common understanding and lexicon can really help.  I am curious why you can’t discuss this with your SIL, without putting her NC at risk.  She and her husband may actually have great insights and be empathetic to your situation and could possibly support both of you in your journey, even though you choose to stay in contact. 

It sounds like you have limited your contact and that you and your husband are setting boundaries.   I am curious whether that has worked or if you feel a need for greater boundaries.   My sister with BPD constantly challenges boundaries which required me to set greater boundaries over time.   Let us know of what you are dealing with on a day to day basis.  Welcome!

[Methuen]

Thanks for sharing more of your story.  It follows a predictable pattern for the in-law context - there are so many here who have shared similar scenarios.

I am so sorry for what your MIL did to your wedding day.  That sounds truly PD.  Causing chaos, creating disharmony, doing whatever it takes to draw attention away from you and H to her, and making it all about her, including the morning after.  That really takes the cake.  

Have you or your H ever seen a counsellor/clinician/therapist about the dynamic with MIL?

The situation you describe merits that level of support.

A lot of years ago (I can't remember exactly, but 10-15), I saw a T for the first time, but sporadically, and only during crises.  About 7 years ago, I started seeing one more regularly, and invited my H along.  When this T reached her limit for assisting me, I found a new T, and again invited H.  It was good for me to have him there supporting me.  It was also good for him because he heard an independent unbiased professional counsel/educate us on my mom's behaviors, and support us to find the strategies for coping as the chaos happened. He learned as much as me.  It was very validating for me.  As my mom ages, her behaviors keep evolving, so we keep having to adapt.  It will not end until she passes.  My point is that H and I went to counselling together, and became a team working together to find ways to manage living close to my mom, as best as we could.  Others have suggested "couples counselling".  I never called it that for us because it makes it sound like marriage counselling, and that wasn't our issue.  Our issue is my mother.

I'm not sure if this is something you are even interested in, but if it is, do you think your H would be open to accompanying you to counselling sessions in the same way mine was?

It has made a huge difference in my H understanding the psychological effect my mother had and continues to have on me.  In your case, it is the psychological effect your MIL is having on you, but a skilled clinician will be able to support both of you, and let your husband grow alongside you, in managing his role in the situation. He's not actually helping his mom by giving in to her demands, he's enabling her to continue with these behaviors.  Do you think counselling would be more palatable to him, if you asked him to accompany you to cope better with her, or improve your wellness?

It sounds like he's already accepted her issues, and has come a long ways, but you've landed here and started posting (a great step forward), so I'm speculating a bit that there's more you would like to accomplish moving forward.  

[jyllis]

I am so grateful for each of the responses I received after reaching out for support. It is eye opening to learn about the experiences others are having with various family members w/ BPD. I didn't expect this amount of support, thank you for responding and for sharing.

As I learn how to use this site, how can I respond to individuals who have shared personal experiences and asked questions?

As an overall response to if I am in T, I was for about 5 years up until things changed with Covid. I signed up for an online T but ended up being pretty much ghosted by the provider. My H has been speaking with a T every few months and it seems to have made a very big difference in understanding that his M really does have an illness and it's not simply me exaggerating. He's also been remembering more things from his childhood that were dysfunctional.

Again, thank you to everyone who has responded and, how can I respond to individuals who have shared personal experiences and asked questions?

[Notwendy]

Oh my goodness, what a wedding nightmare. I think the only reason my BPD mother wasn't one at my wedding was that, it was all what she wanted. My getting married was just the reason for it but it was mostly her family and friends there. At that time, I was used to just giving into what she wanted, and not considering any other way.

She's also tried to manipulate our family events and the first thing she does is offer to pay for something or part of it. I have learned now to refuse this, not one penny, because once she has some control over any part of it, there are no boundaries. We eventually stopped including her at some of them as they turned into scenes about her. I recall when I graduated, they had a nice lunch for the families. She and my father got into an argument at the table, and he walked out angry.

What makes this different is that this is my mother, so having boundaries is my task and my H supports them. The dynamics between your H and his mother are complicated. Even as much as he loves you, he's been raised to behave a certain way with her since he was a child. Having boundaries with her is not something he's used to. I didn't know how to do that and I wasn't even allowed to. So we have to learn something new that doesn't feel familiar or comfortable even if he wants to do it.  This may take therapy- for him and or as a couple.

[livednlearned]

Here are some helpful links to help figure out how the forum/board works (including how to respond): https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319251

 

[zachira]

In response to your question about how to respond to questions from different people, the site encourages members to post on the site, so everybody can learn from everybody else and it is truly a group forum. Do you have things you would not rather share with the group? To post on an online forum is very courageous. This site is very special in that there are lots of protective measures established from being hacked and members private information ever being shared anywhere else. I would never post anywhere else what I share here. I do however omit some  details just to be safe without altering the significance of the content.

[jyllis]

As for when I have to deal with my MIL, it's less often than it used to be because my husband is gaining an understanding that we need boundaries, and he's recognizing that she has been manipulating him / us for years as opposed to just giving in to her at every turn.   A HUGE improvement.

However, because we are neighbors, she finds ways to "run into me" when I am walking my dogs, walking out to my car, stopping at the mailbox etc. She often just "happens" to be wherever I am nearby the property. AND she's made up stories and told my husband things like she's "seen" me with other men while he's at work. I have never and would never do that. Even if I didn't live on the same property as my IL's! She has also entered our home when she thought no one was home.

One of the parts of all of this that I struggle with is being able to find a stopping point when I am answering a question in regards to my experiences with her. It feels so impossible to speak or even think of just one example  or experience and then I become entirely overwhelmed and flooded with years of the effects of similar experiences.

I am going to work on simplifying answering questions that have been asked by you wonderful people who are experiencing similar chaos.

The next question was do I work or am I home most of the time. I do work full time so it's just run ins when I'm home after work or on weekends. She has been known to manage to somehow get into the house when she knows we're not there, which causes anxiety when I'm at work.

I was also asked how I handle living so close to my MIL and that's hard to answer. I'll try. There are definitely times when I can't make myself walk out of the house even if my poor dog needs a walk and my H isn't home. My anxiety is high and then turns into rage that I feel like I'm hostage in my own home. On top of that I feel horrible guilt that I'm not pushing past my need to hide inside and putting my dog's need before my own. I also feel ashamed and don't want to admit to my H that I didn't walk our sweet dog.

There's just SO MUCH to unpack!  I'm also afraid that my venting will fall on deaf ears eventually if I can't get my need to put it all out there under control! Thank you all for reading even if you didn't make it all the way through!

[jyllis]

I am so sorry your wedding night was ruined, not to mention the countless similar stories that are probably chronic and wow, being neighbors like that. I truly cannot fathom what that's like.

This is a great place for support, whether it's to vent or look for ways to make something less bad.

What you wrote about developing empathy for your H is so similar to what happened to me. When we first moved in together, I felt exasperated because he seemed to downplay or ignore or protect bad behavior (he has an adult step child with BPD traits who lived with us, who is 26). I realized at some point I was just making things harder for him and stopped expecting him to fix her. When I took a step back, he took a step forward and revealed how aggravated he was. His ex wife has BPD and he feels devastated to now have a child exhibiting some of the same behaviors. In her case, she is more waif-like and covertly aggressive versus his ex wife who was openly abusive and overtly aggressive. His mother died before I met her but she sounds like queen-witch in her BPD behaviors.

We now live 3000 miles away from SD26. When we moved 2.5 years ago I asked him if he thought SD26 would follow us and he said without missing a beat "that cannot happen."

Still, I don't necessarily trust him to put my needs first when it comes to her, much less his.

How do you handle having your MIL live so close?

[jyllis]

I'm still learning how to navigate so I apologize for reposting an entire share and not just an excerpt!
I like how livenlearned described once taking a step back H took a step forward. That makes a lot of sense.  It must be difficult if it is a spouse's child, grown or not, and certainly one living with you.

I also know what is meant by not trusting if he'll put your needs before yours. My H sometimes has the attitude that it's "her turn" if she's laid low for a while or if there's been a period of time since we had a planned visit. He'll resort to just letting her dictate the Who's, What's, When's and Where's even if I express we need to stick to the boundaries we've put into place.

I imagine that's guilt maybe? He grew up without his M's love. She gave all of her love and attention to his brother. He was raised knowing that he was born b/c she wanted a boy and a girl and already had a boy so he was supposed to be her girl. She punished him for being who he is and not who she wanted. It's so horribly sad

[Notwendy]

Would your H accept counseling?

My sibling is the favorite child for my BPD mother. Now that the brother is not meeting her needs, she turns to the next possibility. Something similar is going on with my BPD mother as I am the child most useful to her- mostly due to distance- so I have been the one to help her move out of her house and I now am managing some of her bills for her as she is unable to.

And now, out of the blue, she's love bombing me. But I don't buy this phony act. I am useful to her - that is all. And I am also not helping her because she love bombs me. I am doing it because she's elderly and I'd rather be the one to do this than someone she might hire who is less trustworthy and wants her money. This is only recently happened this week- before she'd have nothing to do with us helping pay her bills. She even disowned me at one point. But she's fallen and gotten a bit cognitively impaired with age and someone has to help her with this.

But before I learned about BPD, it seems I had to try harder to get some love from her. It might be that for your H, he's finally getting the attention from her that he's wanted since he was a kid. I understand this, but I've also seen how my mother behaves. She's not ever acted loving to me but suddenly since I am useful to her, she's doing her love bombing thing which is total manipulation and I know it.

The first boundary I'd work on in your situation is to regain privacy of your home. This means changing the locks and not giving mother the key. Your H might balk. But it's your home too. Having a grown child's house key requires trust.

[livednlearned]

SD26 used to wander into my closet/bathroom/bedroom. She walked into my closet while I was getting changed, into my bathroom when I was getting out of the shower, and one time I came home and she was in my bed, under the sheets.

I started to lock the door.

It's pretty weird to feel the need to lock a door to keep someone out.

Usually there is a social norm somewhere that the pwBPD has identified and is kind of operating right on the other side, sensing you won't go there. SD26 has a sixth sense for going right up to the razor's edge of these norms.

Maybe your MIL does the same kind of thing?

For example, after coming into my closet while I was changing, I had a reasonable, kind, compassionate conversation with SD26 about good boundaries when living with people, whether with me or roommates. Respect privacy, don't go in bathrooms/bedrooms.

She ignored that conversation and I can't know but I suspect it gave her a little aggression buzz (e.g. SD26 thinking: this bugs LnL --> she said so --> do it more --> my dad can be manipulated to let me in --> this aggravates LnL more --> if LnL gets mad at my dad --> they are fighting --> I'm involved in their relationship --> goal achieved --> bonus points for dad picking me over what LnL wants because it means I'm loved).

But the social norm tipped in my favor when I began locking the door. It isn't normal to be bothered by a locked door to a bedroom that isn't yours.

Same with H. Locking the door bothered H, especially when he was trying to get into our room. But he knew it was also strange for his adult daughter to walk in on me (and him) while we were in there, especially after being asked to respect privacy

So he couldn't really ask me to stop.

SD26 is mainly covert in her aggressions. It has made me a bit wily in my solutions.

Kind of like a little kid who has very little power to acquire something.

If your MIL is like that then something like tipping her off you will (or want to) install cameras in the home might help. I wish in my case that directly addressing the problem worked but it didn't. I suppose I could've followed up with "I see this is an ongoing problem for you. Our next conversation will be about installing locks. We can discuss how to cover costs for installing them if this continues."

But my primary goal was to minimize conflict between me and H since his boundaries were less defined than mine back then and I was trying to avoid providing SDD26 any kind of payoff. I suspect pwBPD (and maybe others) get a bump of self-worth setting up tests for someone to choose them over another person). This has diminished somewhat because I try to get ahead of possible scenarios where I might be in a one-down position. Ideally we would be in a win-win but I think the best I'll ever be able to accomplish is that no one loses. 

[Methuen]

However, because we are neighbors, she finds ways to "run into me" when I am walking my dogs, walking out to my car, stopping at the mailbox etc. She often just "happens" to be wherever I am nearby the property.

This is akin to stalking.  No wonder you sometimes choose to stay inside and not walk the dog.  I don't blame you.  The fact that she's "bumping into you" also means she's watching you/your house.  This is messed up.

My mother watches her neighbours too.  It's like she has nothing else to do.  But the difference is she does it for entertainment.  Even when she could walk, she didn't arrange to "bump into them".

Do you have a side or back door out of her view that you could use so she couldn't see you leaving?  Change your patterns?  Go when she's not expecting you?  

Are you really happy in your house?  Your neighborhood?  Ever thought of moving?

AND she's made up stories and told my husband things like she's "seen" me with other men while he's at work.

What does your husband say about this?

I assume it's the postman, neighbour, a repair person, or a lost person asking for directions.  pwBPD make up wild narratives with their imaginations (based on a bare thread of fact - observing you talk to someone), and once they think their narrative, it becomes a fact for them.  This is so wretchedly typical.  And then they MEDDLE with that false info to create more chaos.  They always need chaos and drama. What did your husband say to her when she made this claim?  

She has also entered our home when she thought no one was home.

This is trespassing and tresspassing is illegal.  The question is why?  What is she looking for or what is she doing while she's there?  Change the locks.  Today. So that you can start to manage your anxiety and feel safe inside your own home.  Going in your home when you are not there is simply beyond the pale, and so OUTSIDE OF NORMAL.

It feels so impossible to speak or even think of just one example  or experience and then I become entirely overwhelmed and flooded with years of the effects of similar experiences.

I am so glad you have found this site.  I really hope you and your H might consider counselling together, as it sounds like he has room for growth in how he manages this dynamic with his mother.  What does he think about her entering the house when neither of you is there?

I understand you feeling like a hostage in your own home.  I think most people would feel like that.  I would.  The point of a home is to have a safe place to live. Turn that rage you feel into positive action by controlling what you can.  You can change the locks.  You can change your patterns.  You can use different doors to enter/exit.  Honestly I would probably start parking my car in a secret place where she can't see when I'm home, and finding a hidden way to enter/leave my home.  Anything to catch some privacy.  Others would disagree and say this is not a healthy strategy.  And it's not.  But neither is being trapped inside your own home.

My H sometimes has the attitude that it's "her turn" if she's laid low for a while or if there's been a period of time since we had a planned visit. He'll resort to just letting her dictate the Who's, What's, When's and Where's even if I express we need to stick to the boundaries we've put into place.

This is the perfect kind of thing to raise with a counsellor.  He should be considering your needs.  His mother has trained him well to meet her needs. He is probably afraid of her. Most of us fear our BPD mother. This may take a professional to "untrain" the behaviors he has been doing for a lifetime, to please his mom.  I started getting help over 10 years ago, but the real work only started 4 years ago.

Jyllis, we're here for you.

We were all overwhelmed when we landed on this forum.  My distress won't end until my mother passes, but I have learned to manage her and my distress more effectively most of the time.  Right now I am struggling too. But relatively speaking, still doing better than when I landed on this site about 4 years ago.  It can get better.

I just want to say that you are NOT the problem, contrary to things she has probably said, and all the nasty ways she has made you feel bad.  MIL is the problem.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Ho God Jyllis,

That's a horrible situation. Seriously. Reading about it upsets me, so I cannot imagine how incredibly triggering this must all be. I have a BPD mother and am no contact with her. She leaves four hours away now and still sends guilt packages for my children similarly to what your MIL is doing to your brother in law. I could never imagine living close to her.

By not standing up to his mother, your H sends the signal that she can do as she pleases. They learn the rules very fast, and know how to behave to get what they want. And as her son's wife, you are bound to be ennemi #1. "You are taking her son away", it triggers the abandonment and loss, your are competition for her. I saw my BPD mother treat my sister in law horribly, quickly made her the family scapegoat, tried to steer her son away from her, guiltripped her constantly about being a poor mother to her baby. They are difficult mother, and they are terrible mother in law. The thing probably helping the latter is there may be no C-PTSD, so you might be able to stand your ground better than your H... But it still has to be terribly stressful. The part about her getting into your house while you aren't there? My god ! Can you change the locks?

One question I have is : why cannot you speak with your sister in law anymore? She is no contact with MIL, not with you, right? Or do you mean, you still speak and see her, but maybe she stopped wanting to discuss MIL?

[Notwendy]

Locks-
When BPD mother visited, she'd excuse herself to go to the ladies room, but not return for a while. What she was doing was snooping around the house while we were busy playing in the family room with the kids and my Dad.

We would lock up anything we didn't want to share with her, such as any bank statements, or personal items. It's not as if she'd have done anything with this, she just likes to be "in the know" about personal information and doesn't respect boundaries. If she's in our home, then locks are the boundaries.

I don't know how your H grew up but it could have been without the kinds of normal boundaries between older children and their parents. A parent has the right to check up on a teen if they suspect dangerous behavior but otherwise, if there's no concern, there needs to be some respect for boundaries. You don't snoop through an adult child's house if you have the key. But this may all feel different to your H. When we grow up with a disordered parent, we may not learn what "normal" boundaries are.

[jyllis]

My sibling is the favorite child for my BPD mother. Now that the brother is not meeting her needs, she turns to the next possibility. Something similar is going on with my BPD mother as I am the child most useful to her- mostly due to distance- so I have been the one to help her move out of her house and I now am managing some of her bills for her as she is unable to.


Wow. Wow! It is incredible to find this group that has so many similar experiences and situations. This is exactly how it was for my husband. His brother got every bit of his M's love and attention, and now that he went no contact my husband is the one doing everything for her. I get glimpses of a little boy wanting his mom to love him.



And now, out of the blue, she's love bombing me. But I don't buy this phony act. I am useful to her - that is all. And I am also not helping her because she love bombs me. I am doing it because she's elderly and I'd rather be the one to do this than someone she might hire who is less trustworthy and wants her money. This is only recently happened this week- before she'd have nothing to do with us helping pay her bills. She even disowned me at one point. But she's fallen and gotten a bit cognitively impaired with age and someone has to help her with this.

I am so sorry that this is what is happening. I am also very glad that you see it for what it is. My H doesn't necessarily trust his M fully but he falls for her love bombing b/c this whole concept of BPD is really new for him. It was years of fighting and my telling him that the way she treats us is not normal.

I am so grateful to be able to share this with this community. I am reading all of the responses and there are so many of you that are putting words to things I thought I was alone in! I really felt like my SIL was the only person who truly understands and I don't lean on her anymore b/c she recently had a new baby and it's been a very difficult transition with complications. The mere mention of our MIL causes a stress response, as it sounds like anyone here, gets. I want my SIL to be free, I am so glad  I found this resource.

I should have more time today so I plan on responding to more posts. Thank you so much for the support.

[jyllis]

Ho God Jyllis,

I saw my BPD mother treat my sister in law horribly, quickly made her the family scapegoat, tried to steer her son away from her, guiltripped her constantly about being a poor mother to her baby. They are difficult mother, and they are terrible mother in law. The thing probably helping the latter is there may be no C-PTSD, so you might be able to stand your ground better than your H

One question I have is : why cannot you speak with your sister in law anymore? She is no contact with MIL, not with you, right? Or do you mean, you still speak and see her, but maybe she stopped wanting to discuss MIL?

Is your SIL still in the picture? Do they still have contact? That's exactly what my MIL did to my SIL who she treated even more horribly than she treats me. My SIL married the son she actually cares about so as bad as it is for me being married to the unwanted son, it was HORRENDOUS for my SIL.

They chose no contact when they realized that they couldn't continue protecting their 4 year old from her.

[jyllis]

SD26 used to wander into my closet/bathroom/bedroom. She walked into my closet while I was getting changed, into my bathroom when I was getting out of the shower, and one time I came home and she was in my bed, under the sheets.

For example, after coming into my closet while I was changing, I had a reasonable, kind, compassionate conversation with SD26 about good boundaries when living with people, whether with me or roommates. Respect privacy, don't go in bathrooms/bedrooms.

She ignored that conversation and I can't know but I suspect it gave her a little aggression buzz (e.g. SD26 thinking: this bugs LnL --> she said so --> do it more --> my dad can be manipulated to let me in --> this aggravates LnL more --> if LnL gets mad at my dad --> they are fighting --> I'm involved in their relationship --> goal achieved --> bonus points for dad picking me over what LnL wants because it means I'm loved).

That is a very interesting insight into the internal conversation of your SD26! Wow! I can definitely apply that to how my MIL likely thinks and processes information!  This is really helpful to break down the likely though process or a BPD. It's really a shame to have to do so much work to understand them when it's a one sided effort

[Riv3rW0lf]

Is your SIL still in the picture? Do they still have contact? That's exactly what my MIL did to my SIL who she treated even more horribly than she treats me. My SIL married the son she actually cares about so as bad as it is for me being married to the unwanted son, it was HORRENDOUS for my SIL.

They chose no contact when they realized that they couldn't continue protecting their 4 year old from her.

Well... She seldom goes to my mother's house anymore, and my brother is the one bringing the children there. Last time they both came to diner, she made excuses to go for a walk outside, which I didn't understand then, but now I do. She would decrease her time interacting with my mother. So... Would go for walks, or would sit away playing board games with her children.

The situation is a bit complicated for her though, I am pretty convinced my brother has some kind of PD. As a result of my mother's condition and trauma, he just fits the communal narcissist description so very well.

He acts as a savior, and is now a life coach. He has people living on his land, working for him kinda.. he calls it the community and he stands at the center of it. He recently threw someone out because she wasn't "working with the community enough". So... It would be nearly impossible to cut contact completely with our mother for her, seeing how my brother thinks he can save her.

He recently cut me off because I told him to stop asking me when I planned to "pacify" the relationship with our mother. He kept putting pressure on me. He answered to his request by telling me I would rot inside out, that it was my trauma and that I was the problem. I somehow managed to stay calm, and when he threaten to cut me off, I answered that would be his decision and I would respect his wishes. And so he did.

Then he called my father (we don't have the same father), who happens to be his neighbor (complicated story), to paint himself as the hero of the situation, telling him how our mother had worked so much on herself (my father is remarried and is still traumatized by his relationship with my mother and dealing with fear of her from the trauma he endured with her, not exactly an "ally"). So... It kinda really put the dysfunction into light when he did that... I mean... What did he expect my father to do, . My father told him he wouldn't discuss me with him and was actually supporting my decision. Crazy talk.

So...is she still in the decor? Not in mine because of the recent cutoff from my brother. And for my mother, I think sis in law manages as best she can and tries to steer our of our mother's way.  But they are playing some kind of role of ... Gurus or something... she is feeding my brother too, so... Complicated. I don't really know who she is either, really. But I did witness how my mother reacted to her... An outsider, an ennemy. So I never got closed to her either. My mother ran the show back then, I didn't know any better.

[jyllis]

My mother watches her neighbours too.  It's like she has nothing else to do.  But the difference is she does it for entertainment.  Even when she could walk, she didn't arrange to "bump into them".

Do you have a side or back door out of her view that you could use so she couldn't see you leaving?  Change your patterns?  Go when she's not expecting you?  

Are you really happy in your house?  Your neighborhood?  Ever thought of moving?
 What does your husband say about this?

I assume it's the postman, neighbour, a repair person, or a lost person asking for directions.  pwBPD make up wild narratives with their imaginations (based on a bare thread of fact - observing you talk to someone), and once they think their narrative, it becomes a fact for them.  This is so wretchedly typical.  And then they MEDDLE with that false info to create more chaos.  They always need chaos and drama. What did your husband say to her when she made this claim?  
 

How do you feel about your mom watching the neighbors? If she's doing it more so for entertainment there is something more innocent about that but it would still drive me crazy 
I'm glad you aren't dealing with her chasing people down and harassing them!

As for patterns, when I am off of my typical schedule, which is none of her business to begin with, she will be sure to bring it up to my H, "well what was Jyllis  doing home at 2:00? Why wasn't she at work?" Just an example, but it's like she's ALWAYS watching! Or if my H or I have someone come over, she'll meander over and snoop around the car to try to figure out who it could be. Again, NOHB!
As for the "men she's seen me walking with", there wasn't ever even like an explanation for that! No delivery guy, no one asking for directions. Purely fiction. We don't live in a typical neighborhood. It's a rural area with a gate. My husband actually told me that his M had seen me walking with a man and asked me who it was. If I was going to try to sneak around I would not do it where my H and ILs live.
My H believed me quickly when I told him the truth. It's just freakish and unsettling what a close eye she has. I can't imagine how she manages all the angles!

[jyllis]

Locks-
When BPD mother visited, she'd excuse herself to go to the ladies room, but not return for a while. What she was doing was snooping around the house while we were busy playing in the family room with the kids and my Dad.

We would lock up anything we didn't want to share with her, such as any bank statements, or personal items. It's not as if she'd have done anything with this, she just likes to be "in the know" about personal information and doesn't respect boundaries. If she's in our home, then locks are the boundaries.

I don't know how your H grew up but it could have been without the kinds of normal boundaries between older children and their parents. A parent has the right to check up on a teen if they suspect dangerous behavior but otherwise, if there's no concern, there needs to be some respect for boundaries. You don't snoop through an adult child's house if you have the key. But this may all feel different to your H. When we grow up with a disordered parent, we may not learn what "normal" boundaries are.

My blood boils for you! I totally get that! I am very sorry. My H has made a big deal about my wanting to lock everything up and has thought that I am paranoid and dramatic but I have been able to get through to him about her not being invited over.
I was having breakdowns right there in front of him after similar situations to what you describe. What you said about growing up with a disordered parent possibly altering what "normal" boundaries are really triggers me because you are SO RIGHT!

When my H and his brother were growing up, my MIL for whatever reason, thought his brother was gay so for his 12th or 13th bday she got him subscriptions to some very raunchy adult magazines and channels in an effort to "turn him straight". My H who was 9 or 10 at the time had full blown access to it. One of the first times I went over to the house they grew up in, when we were still in high school, there was hard core content on the TV, just playing in the background!

I was disgusted and shocked that my H's parents were just going about their business while this was on in the family room. Even thinking about it, it's hard to believe I married into this disfunction! If that isn't a boundary I don't know what is!

[Methuen]

On the topic of privacy and boundaries we used to dread uBPD mom coming to the house unannounced because we would have to run around and pick up bills, financial statements, mail etc and hide anything/everything we didn't want her XRay eyes to see.  Anything laying on a table or counter she would pick up and start reading.  Who does that?  I'm embarrassed to say there was a time when my H had to "teach me" there was something wrong with that.  When we were first married, I didn't really see the problem because I had grown up with a mother who had no boundaries, so this was just "normal".  OMG, when I think about it now, it's just crazy.  But it took my H pointing out the problem of mother reading our mail for me to learn that wasn't normal.  Once I had more awareness of what she was doing, it really felt like she was violating our privacy.  And it still makes me kinda mad to think about it.

Now she has lost mobility, and doesn't go outside her home.  This makes me feel a lot safer inside my home.  

One time our adult son was home visiting, and when she started reading our mail, he joked her about being a snoop.  EXPLOSION!  "How dare you call me a snoop!  How could you be so mean?"

I recently told a story on a thread about a time when she was housesitting for us.  She went into my H's shop (we bought the family property from her), and gave away my H's grinder to her bf while we were on holidays.  I guess he saw it in there and liked it.  What were they doing in our shop? There was nothing that needed housesitting in there.  My H had purchased the grinder 20 years before we bought the property from her (had it most of his adult life including before he met me) and after my dad died (this was about 18 years ago).  She didn't even care when H told her that was his grinder she had given away.  She thought that since the shop was built by my dad, everything in it was hers too.  Except we paid lock stock and barrel for the property including the shop and the contents.  She just wanted to impress her bf.  He wanted a grinder.  She gave it to him.  Simple.

They truly have no boundaries.  Which also translates to a lack of knowing what is right/wrong.
And little to no sense of respect for others, their privacy or their property.

We changed the locks.

I also had escape plans for when she would come to the house on a rampage.  One time I executed the plan and it worked perfectly.  That was one time "I got away".  Makes me laugh to think about it now, but at the time I was terrified.

My H has made a big deal about my wanting to lock everything up and has thought that I am paranoid and dramatic but I have been able to get through to him about her not being invited over.

You are right to lock things up.  She's not going to change.  It is you and H that have to make the adjustments.  I am glad you have been able to get through to him about her not being invited over.  Your home needs to be your refuge and safe place.

[jyllis]

 I'm embarrassed to say there was a time when my H had to "teach me" there was something wrong with that.  When we were first married, I didn't really see the problem because I had grown up with a mother who had no boundaries, so this was just "normal".  OMG, when I think about it now, it's just crazy.  But it took my H pointing out the problem of mother reading our mail for me to learn that wasn't normal.  Once I had more awareness of what she was doing, it really felt like she was violating our privacy.  And it still makes me kinda mad to think about it.

Wow. It's so helpful to hear this perspective as I feel like that was how it was for my H for years, just shrugging unacceptable behavior from his M because to him it was just the way it was, just normal. My SIL had the same experience marrying the Bro of my H. It was a full 7years into their marriage before he started understanding my SIL's POV.
I am so grateful that there is a place I can go and hear from people like you with experiences like this. It makes me feel like my SIL is not the only person in the world who I can lean on! Thank you so much for sharing!

[Notwendy]

On the topic of privacy and boundaries we used to dread uBPD mom coming to the house unannounced because we would have to run around and pick up bills, financial statements, mail etc and hide anything/everything we didn't want her XRay eyes to see.  Anything laying on a table or counter she would pick up and start reading.  Who does that?  

My mother does that! We had to lock anything personal as well. We'd be in the family room and she'd excuse herself to use the bathroom and then not return- cause she'd be wandering all over the house looking at our personal things.

Once as a teen, I came home from school early and when I opened my bedroom door, she was in there reading all my letters ( no email or text then- we wrote notes and letters) and going through my things. She then got angry at me for walking into my own room!

She and my father shared the same email and she still uses that one. She listened in on all our phone calls.

My mother has also "befriended" some of our adult friends, on her own.

She somehow seems to crave personal information. Any time she gets a little bit of something she lights up with excitement. She also gets angry when she isn't "in the know" and sometimes we just forget to tell her something.

My boundary with her is to not share personal information. It's similar to a social media boundary. "Hey Mom, did you hear that grandkid's soccer team won?". "Grandkid started a new job" : "we went to the beach last week" that kind of thing. So I keep her informed, but with boundaries.