ADHD wife thinks she is now Lesbian, probably BPD as well...

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First, I’ll excuse myself in advance for the massive walls of text, and thanks to those kind souls that’ll go through it. I have much suffering to let go. For reference I'll be 40 this year and she'll be turning 35 soon. We are married and have 4 children aged 9 to 4. English is not my first language.

Before researching BPD (I was at first wondering about bipolar and schizophrenia), or even the current situation, many many times I've been thinking about our married and family life as a roller coaster, particularly since the current situation began…

On her birthday about a year ago, after a very rough half year and rough Covid years that included moving to a new home and times of sickness, as I was seeing my stay at home wife distraught with 4 young kids on vacation, after arriving at work I went back and took my penultimate reserve day of paid-leave to take the kids out, do shopping and prepare a nice evening for her, telling her to relax, take a bath and get some rest. After putting the kids to bed, I went on to spend time with her talking on the couch, showing interest in understanding her identification as an Omega (being a submissive in a S/M relationship had been an ideal of hers since before our meeting, I obliged to some extent at her insistence, it being play in my head, and it was very intense from late 2020), during the conversation I got worried as her desire to be collared had almost evolved into getting bite marks tattooed on her neck, and when she pointed me to websites to better analyze what Alphas and Omegas were (she pointed at the latter being totally her), I could not help but point to her references all being Furries (she had repeatedly in the past expressed strong disgust at the idea of full body costumed Furries), she had a very strong disgusted and distressed reaction, and so did I. She told me everything was finished, and that since I wanted a strong woman, I was going to have it (I always expressed my trouble at not seeing her as an equal).

For the next couple days, I was coping with disgust and avoiding her while she was seemingly cheerful. When after a few days, seeing her cheerful, I initiated tactile contact as she had insisted on requiring for the past years, she expressed her discomfort. Later we had a talk where she expressed her deep admiration for me, but that she could no longer be intimate with me without attraction, that I was not the problem, that it was with her. But we were such a good team, the children needed us both, so we should all continue to live together, and we could both have our sweethearts on the side without making a fuss, but it would make it easier if I could despise her at the same time, when totally shocked and distressed I asked if she was going to see another man she used verbal qualifier so strongly negatives she never remembered them when I brought up the question later.

About a month prior she had expressed a sudden theoretical interest in participative polygamy (I had joked about it in the past) and girls in general, after many years of rather crude internalized homophobia directed towards lesbians (yet at the beginning of our relationship, she would oddly point at nice-looking girls when I had eyes only for her).

Since then, I’ve faced negative emotions stronger than ever before, magnified by the contradictions and violated agreements while at the same time she’d be cheerful, expecting my validation, softness and understanding, at times listing all my aspects that seduced her, jumping at my neck, asking for hugs or even cuddles and make long term plans about « us », at other times she’d be a wreck addicted to her smartphone (in the past she had asked I set up parental control), with totally messed up priorities and thought processes (food, worms and hygiene…), compulsively sabotaging holidays and the kids important life events for the sake of her sweethearth and her new lesbian identity...

 

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[Lostranslation]

The other :

At the same time, she became ever more transparent about someone being there for her (a self-described genderfluid women (but she defends seeing her as a girl only, while insisting on pronouns), they(she) has kids, lives in a poor Eastern European country, they (plural) are never going to meet anyway she said repeatedly
-> starts learning said country’s language, ditching Japanese for which she had craved my validation
-> raves about gifts received
-> our daughter knows that person’s name
-> suddenly rushes to organize a trip to meet said person between a big celebration for eldest and our wedding 10th anniversary
-> cries she does not want to see this family vanish and is a wreck for days, saying she does not understand, she has everything she ever wanted yet…
-> asks me to organize babysitting with her Mom with which she had cut contact with for almost a year following strong words
-> instantly contacts her when I say no
-> during eldest big event I am in shock and tension is palpable, the 2 big kids sense something is amiss
-> when she leaves our older daughter is terrified she’s never going to come back
-> all cheerful when back, offers me cake made by the other person
-> later, after a talk my Dad had with her, I make her confess, it’s a revelation for her, she’s going to pursue that relationship as long as it goes and go on trips as often as she can, entrusting the kids to her Mom she just said horrors about 2 days prior, and for her it wasn’t cheating ever since she told me we were over. Will often go on how hard it is for her, renouncing the picture of the house with the white picket fence and all…
-> 2 days later I tell her she must let go all her bad influences, she is instantly worried I am going to take the children away from her
-> 2 days later, since her therapist and the social assistants apparently ridiculed my stance (or maybe it was my Dad's), she’s going to pursue her new life while I stay to take care of the kids, and doesn’t care if relatives, friends and our local community shuns her (she is solely focused on the gay aspect, not understanding the major issue being infidelity)
-> 2 days later tells me she put a stop to the relationship because the other must work on relationship with the traditional, religious and unaware husband and father of 3, they/she is polyamorous, but their problem is not ours (has described herself as being unable to ever see herself with a man since beginning of 2023). She wants to keep things as is. As with the last minute vacation I get the impression that nothing is in her control.
-> a few days later she mention that she wants to keep that person as a friend since they were friend first, revealing they had met more than a month before our crisis…
-> a few days later in front of marriage counselor says that they just put it on hold, as the other’s family wouldn’t understand, at some point goes like a broken record that they were not supposed to meet ever (this had happened a few times prior), then telling us that that person was there with her online when she was all alone on her previous birthday… (it becomes clear to me that no matter what I cannot trust her in anything).
-> lashes at me for exposing my problem to the kids before she comes out (I did not disclose any orientation, just her no longer being in love with me), and for doing so before our big family trip if I wanted it to be a show of unity
-> during said family trip would take selfies while making half-hearths and send vocal messages with kisses, while going all nostalgic about our honeymoon and regressing when asking me favors
-> just after trip my eldest tells me she is busy organizing her next trip to that person’s country of residence (she had mentioned it in the past, with a humanitarian motive).

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The trip

A bit prior to our crisis, for our 10th Wedding Anniversary she had suggested that we go back to Japan, where we had been for our short honeymoon. She wanted at least 3 weeks. I had started very loose plans but after the crisis, as came a very good opportunity, I reworked it as a grand Post-Covid family trip. I had a very long time (yet not blind) interest in Japan and many aspects of its culture, which I shared with her, who was already into Hello Kitty (her interests went hardcore quickly), and later our children so the latter were hyped (until a month before departure she showed little to no commitment, oddly asking at the last minute for sights she had been disparaging 6 months prior). I made it very clear that it was a trip meant for the children (In my mind perhaps the last united family memory they might have, and which had been keeping me on my feet).

Going all in, I had included a day at Disneyland, and knowing her enthusiasm for roller coasters, I made it repeatedly very clear that we were there for the kids. At some point, as we were both taking care of the youngest, the eldest went to do a roller coaster, when she learned it was Space Mountain, she started getting angry (fearing she might not be able to do it), so I placed myself in front of her asking her to calm down, she shouted at me to get out of her way or she’d bite me, I reiterated and so she bit me in public and in front of the children, the 2 older ones at least being traumatized, before moving away with the 2 young ones. As I was trying to calm the 2, 5 minutes later she’s back to normal and we’re staying, to the questioning children she justifies her assault by her warning, she does her ride with the girls and much later at closing time it is all about her wants.

The day before and after, she managed to get entire days on her own while I took care of all 4 with a relative.
The following day, as my relative and I had taken care of the children after a long journey, and prepared them for sleep, leaving them in the care of my wife who had stated wanting to stay at the inn, we went out to relax a bit, when we came back we were told they had been insufferable and she had menaced them of her flying back home on her own, the next day, she reiterated that menace in front of me to our 3rd who has the most severe attachment issues.
While she could be responsible at times, her compulsive smartphone usage became worse to the point of negligence towards the youngest one week later.

After the arduous journey back home, when she asked me for a hug I obliged and told her about how we had met, our projects, our family. I reiterated that she should cut all her bad influences and look only at the children and me, that I would teach her happiness and love because those are not innate nor easy. “Or else?” she asked calmly, “leave my life” I answered, “so what? I leave with the kids?” she asked, “No I can’t trust you with them” I answered. I told her I’d let her think about it by herself as I picked her phone. She instantly became aggressive, saying and then proceeding to call the police, leaving the house barefooted with the youngest in tow. I did the same to signal the physical assault I had been subjected to, dragging the 3 big ones along (who were busy making post-divorce plans). We were made to calm down, I was suggested I take some rest and distance, she tried pushing I take some rest in an institution, I stood my ground.

Is it really moving towards a separation? Social assistants seem to have convinced her a bit after pointlesssly talking about agreements, yet on some days she’ll be all nice, then briefly tell me to stop using the children against her, then back to “normal”. Youngest child is I hope clueless, 3rd is worryingly in a bubble, clinging to her after saying we should erase her from pictures if she leaves, reporting to me that she told them I want to take their Mommy away, 2nd is clinging to me and eldest is the most uncomfortable if not resentful towards her.
 

[Lostranslation]

Consulting and testing so far :

We had been heavily consulting since early 2022, due to mounting issues with the children, particularly our third, and my wife's temporary mental collapse, rife with regressions.

It started, at her insistence, with the eldest, with which she had been overwhelmed for years after a brief stint at homeschooling, he got diagnosed HP with some mild attention deficit, and is under medication during the school year.
Followed the discrete and timid yet sometimes explosive 2nd, who is now followed for anxiety management.
Most problems were encountered with the 3rd, with which we were facing very violent and systematic frustration crises. She got diagnosed with attachment disorder, which was instantly linked to my wife’s background and own issues.
4th does show some explosiveness, I hope the codependency with his Mom won't last...

During the brunt of the sessions, and until she broke our relationship, she went into rather severe regression, sitting on the floor and fiddling with toys as I had to translate her murmurs or just speak in her stead. It extended to ordinary school meetings, which I had to attend in her stead as she feared being scolded. I got severely overworked in the process, burning trough my paid-leaves, only to be told at the end that I should spend more time with my children and talk more with my wife. To this day she still expresses regression at an oral stage when faced with anxiety, sometimes acutely and in public.

During the process she had at time expressed despair and wanting to flee away.

We later did our own WAIS tests, and while mine revealed an asymmetrical very high potential hampered by lowish speed and short-term memory scores (>150 with those two excluded, further testing for suspected ASD is currently not my priority), hers revealed a very marked ADHD, compensated by a well-balanced High Potential (around 130). A major problem is that while I’ll always end up being able to see the big picture, she’s always owning me in verbal confrontations, or just in denial.

Post crisis, she found much comfort in her therapist, but it seems she’s been put on rails. Mine was much rockier, as I would regurgitate the years of abuse, and would receive more faster than I could evacuate. Realizing I could not trust the children to her helped my steep out off passivity. But I don’t know what the future holds. I know I should not be the one who suffers most from now on, but I’m still concerned about the children, and a tiny bit about her, since I know she does care for them to an extent, and most is out of her control...

[uncleflo]

I’m so very sorry to hear all you’ve been going through, Lost. It’s interesting to read your thoughts, especially when it comes to S&M, as my pwBPD introduced that into our marriage a few years ago out of nowhere. I played along based on wanting to keep her “happy,” but before long, she lost interest. Now she has tossed me into the garbage bin. 

All I know is the rollercoaster you’re on seems to be par for the course when dealing with somebody with BPD. The sudden validations into devaluations, rinse, and repeat. You are not only in your confusion and pain, my friend. All of us here understand and are here for you (especially the wise, grizzled veterans here!). Try your best to take  care of yourself and those precious kids of yours above all else.

Uncle N

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Her background :

Her maternal grandmother abandoned her family when her Mom was a child, her father committed suicide as she was a few years old, leaving her with multi-generational attachment issues.

Her Mom pushed her to be an independent woman and did all she could to allow her to study. Instead she dreamed of being a housewife and started a secretary school, in the hope of snatching a well-off, protective, alpha boss. Her education ideals are the opposite of her rough-mouthed mother.

Age 18 she eloped to India and married there, hoping for a traditional man, she learned quite a bit of the language and cooking (yet having an aversion to anything spicy). When they came back in a non-English-speaking country, it went nowhere quickly as she was the one supporting the household.
While still technically married, a friend from a fanfic writing forum suggested she date her son in the US, so she moved with tourist visas and after an intense toxic relationship she left, too smart to be the one paying for everything.
Before meeting me, with minimal overlap, she was in a non-serious, no strings attached relationship with a well off professional. Both her paternal grandparents, with which she had been closest, died shortly, and soon she reactivated her dating profile, looking for a long-term serious relationship, and presenting herself as a kitten to be adopted.
I had just altered my filter, and it seemed a match made in heaven. We had plenty of common interests, long term family plans coincided, we were both each other’s type. After a couple of online dates, it went very quickly, and after I proposed her maternity desire went overdrive. She went on to seriously convert into my family’s catholic faith, even tough it was not necessary (with much zeal until at some point she got rebuked by some close-mindedness, oddly enough she’s became more devout post crisis but misses the bigger picture).
Following the first 2 births it was tough, as she was rejecting me, particularly kisses, which she linked to an aggression she had been subjected to in her teenage hood, alternating with frantic passion where she’d chase me at work when her pre-planned babies were to be ideally conceived. She’d often mention loving being pregnant and the center of attention. At some point she went back to fanfics which fueled a burning desire for years.
She went close to death when the 3rd was born at home, and I was terrified of losing her onward. She felt she wanted more despite the heightened risks and was extremely persuasive. 4th was the cutest thing ever, and despite facing the same issues at birth, she was still in want of more. Following arrival of 4th we faced loads of hurdles in the Pre-Covid year, and managed to move to a dream house with dream school and dream community. Shortly after she announced the 5th (unplannned) which at the time I was unable to receive with joy, shortly after there was the miscarriage, and her few writings in the pregnancy book are the last traces of genuine love I feel I have left.
Before I could grieve, she switched to never wanting to be pregnant again, embracing being a woman again, and as I wanted to spend more time with family, she hammered we deepened our relationship on the S/M basis she had long openly craved. During the process she became more and more interested in the anime and manga I wanted to share with her, up to the point she fixated and identified herself on a character defined as a Pet-girl (a non-functional genius artist which basic care must be done by the teenage male protagonist, to much ensuing comedy). She started learning Japanese at a frantic pace, frantically took on Cosplay as a hobby at the expense of household operations. Wore a kimono at home and tried to act as and cook like a good Japanese housewife. She got into renewed fanfic writing and reading frenzy, delving more and more into male-on-male relationship focused fantasies aimed at a feminine public.
At the same time she wanted to be an ideal spouse, she wanted to be a perfect full time Mom, and she wanted to also take more jobs teaching night classes (I had found the job and made her apply, reluctant at first she loved it and it’s the job she’s held the longest), she also wanted to be more invested in a pet project that is more volunteering, and over that period she took on 7 different trainings that were related to said job, said pet project or a totally different back-up job type, all at the expense of family evenings and week-ends.
Early 2022 the situation went on to quickly degenerate. Since we moved in 2020 we had been essentially sleeping in a corner of the living room, but suffering 2 Covids without being allowed sufficient intimacy to rest had taken its toll on me, and combined with many other factors I shouted which scared her enough to disappear with the kids to her Mom’s country. We had 2 spare rooms that had been previously let, with one becoming a home office, and the other one a reserve/guest room, we had remained in the living room as the kids would often come at night and she was scared they might fall in the stairs. After my outburst and after coming back she went all protective and we moved the parent’s room to the spare room which had an ideal layout, after a few nights only it became “my” room, as she returned to the couch, worried still about the kids falling, and never feeling at ease in that room that was pre-decorated. Then the war news came, and some more bad news, as my stress was piling up, and her and the kids were starting to break down, and I had to handle more and more, clenching my teeth, at some point I told her I could not give her much attention for the time being, up to our crisis…

During the Covid years she went on to have 3 non urgent hearth surgeries (noninvasive, conscious patient). After our crisis she elected to have reconstructive surgeries on both lower orifices (and would rave to me about the results, saying if only she felt comfortable showing me). She later changed her first name (which she had always stated hating), and got a massive tattoo on her leg (she had a small one before we met, as well as several piercings).

During the whole time she’s had eating disorders, being forced to eat more during pregnancies, and losing weight excessively after each birth. She’s had recurring episodes of losing taste before Covid. She’s had many different food manias, was always compulsive about gluten-rich foods, and is prone to skipping meals.

Now she has considerably changed her image to match that of a lesbian, and wants to drag me into militant/humanitarian operations…

Most of the time I see her empty and anxious when she’s not trying to appear cheerful. A cheerfulness to which I am unable to answer to, demands of validation I cannot answer to, cries for help she quickly denies…

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What to do?

We have various mediation meetings coming up.
So far I’ve been studying the co-parenting charter we were presented in prior meetings, and listed all the reasons she’s made near all its points untenable in a systematic and compulsive manner.

A major disscussing point I am considering, as a stop gap, is to have her take some rest in an institution, mirroring the suggestion she just had for me, and echoing her wants from a year ago.

But is there a point?

Similarly, would there be a point to push for her to be tested for BPD?

Essentially, since the beginnning of this year, and more and more clearly by the day, is the feeling that as is I can't keep that person as a friend, much less trust my children to her, due to all the unbridled impulsivity...
 

[kells76]

Hi losttranslation, welcome  really glad you found us. You're going through a lot with your W's massive impulsivity, lack of a sense of self, and roller-coaster emotions.

I think you hit on something important here:

What to do?

We have various mediation meetings coming up.
So far I’ve been studying the co-parenting charter we were presented in prior meetings, and listed all the reasons she’s made near all its points untenable in a systematic and compulsive manner.

A major disscussing point I am considering, as a stop gap, is to have her take some rest in an institution, mirroring the suggestion she just had for me, and echoing her wants from a year ago.

But is there a point?

Similarly, would there be a point to push for her to be tested for BPD?

Essentially, since the beginnning of this year, and more and more clearly by the day, is the feeling that as is I can't keep that person as a friend, much less trust my children to her, due to all the unbridled impulsivity...
 

You have four little kids who are being impacted by their mom's behaviors. Really difficult stuff. While your W is an adult and, in a certain sense, can "take care of herself", your children are young and need parental care, support, and attention. Your W's BPD-type traits and behaviors make that incredibly difficult for her to do. Her own emotional "black hole" needs are likely her main concern, and you're watching as she's frantically bouncing from one external identity to another, probably trying to meet her nearly unmeetable needs. Much of that energy, ideally, should be going to the kids instead, but it's not.

Finding a way to "stop the bleeding" going on in your family -- to at least stabilize things, to not make things worse -- could be a good area to focus on. Like you'll read a lot here, before we can make things better, we have to stop making things worse -- not that "we're all to blame", but just recognizing that (1) we all play our own part in these dynamics, and (2) we may have dreams of a future where things are "all better", but to get there, we have to start at a more basic level.

It certainly doesn't sound like a bad idea to suggest to your W that she take a break by going to inpatient care. How do you think she'd respond to that? Is there some part of her personality that might be attracted to that idea?

In terms of pushing for her to be tested for BPD, what would be the ideal outcome, in your opinion, from that? How likely do you think that ideal outcome would be?

And if I'm reading correctly, it sounds like you are not in the United States. It's okay not to disclose what country you're from, though you can if you feel comfortable doing so. More just to let readers know that USA-applicable legal approaches may not be workable for your situation.

That being said, you mention the mediation meetings coming up. Are those about ending the relationship (separation/divorce)? Child custody/parenting time? Something else? And do you have a lawyer/solicitor/representative?

Lots of questions, I know. Feel free to post any time here, we're here for you as you try to make your family situation better.

-kells76

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I’m so very sorry to hear all you’ve been going through, Lost. It’s interesting to read your thoughts, especially when it comes to S&M, as my pwBPD introduced that into our marriage a few years ago out of nowhere. I played along based on wanting to keep her “happy,” but before long, she lost interest. Now she has tossed me into the garbage bin. 

All I know is the rollercoaster you’re on seems to be par for the course when dealing with somebody with BPD. The sudden validations into devaluations, rinse, and repeat. You are not only in your confusion and pain, my friend. All of us here understand and are here for you (especially the wise, grizzled veterans here!). Try your best to take  care of yourself and those precious kids of yours above all else.

Uncle N

Thanks,

In her case the S&M had been a long term interest of her, since at least if not prior to her 1st marriage (she would rave about that time she went to England to get tied and suspended by an expert in the company of her puzzled ex...). She kept wanting I join her online forums to see how they were all such nice normal people. What I had the most trouble processing was the concept of the submissive asking if not dictating everything...
Our crisis was a major tipping point, given her "strong woman" quip, and she's distanced herself of all of that and the very nice people she knew, after at least 15 years. At first part of my distress was that I was happy for her that she had freed herself from those absurd shackles (I always tought she had too much of a character to be submissive), but then it quickly became more and more apparent that behind a thin veneer, she was relying too much on me to compensate her helpessness and pour her anxiety into, while she had founds other sources of validation and thrills...

[Lostranslation]

Hi losttranslation, welcome  really glad you found us. You're going through a lot with your W's massive impulsivity, lack of a sense of self, and roller-coaster emotions.

Thanks! I don't know yet, how far delving into the field of BPD will lead me to, but so many things echo with the last 11 years of my life with her...

I think you hit on something important here:

Yes not being able to even keep her as a friend has been gnawing at me for a long time, and not being able to trust the kids to her mounting as well, peaking with all her displays of impulsivity ever since she consumated her affair and embraced a Lesbian identity...

You have four little kids who are being impacted by their mom's behaviors. Really difficult stuff. While your W is an adult and, in a certain sense, can "take care of herself", your children are young and need parental care, support, and attention. Your W's BPD-type traits and behaviors make that incredibly difficult for her to do. Her own emotional "black hole" needs are likely her main concern, and you're watching as she's frantically bouncing from one external identity to another, probably trying to meet her nearly unmeetable needs. Much of that energy, ideally, should be going to the kids instead, but it's not.

So far its the concern of their well being that's containing my urge to run away from the reccuring source of suffering. At least compared to the beginning of last year, the children have been receiving much more love and attention from both of us, but I'm seeing patterns of push-pull being applied on the more vulnerables, when its not chronic neglect.

For now the most vocal if not enthusiastic parties about divorce are the 9 and 8 years older children...

Finding a way to "stop the bleeding" going on in your family -- to at least stabilize things, to not make things worse -- could be a good area to focus on. Like you'll read a lot here, before we can make things better, we have to stop making things worse -- not that "we're all to blame", but just recognizing that (1) we all play our own part in these dynamics, and (2) we may have dreams of a future where things are "all better", but to get there, we have to start at a more basic level.

So far, after researching BPD, I've come to understand I've been stepping on a lot of landmines all these years, having for others the same high expectations I have for myself, not understanding the validation and reassurance craving, nor the gnawing anxiety...

Seems that I am also a perfect Codependency enabler... at least the issue of codependency was already raised by her therapist at the very beginning of our crisis.

It certainly doesn't sound like a bad idea to suggest to your W that she take a break by going to inpatient care. How do you think she'd respond to that? Is there some part of her personality that might be attracted to that idea?

She's shown recurring urges to escape or run away over the years and even during our family trip. She seems particularly worn down when she has the four at the same time, which during the current school break is her everyday.
She matches the description of a quiet BPD to every detail, and her splittings have always been extremely abrupt, so I don't know how it would go. Before we reached the social services, she had always been terrified of being considered a bad mother, and losing her children is a very recurring anguish she is voicing or seeing as a menace. I'm hoping she can hear the message that if she continues like that she's gonna alienate them by her own actions.

She has good intentions, but combined with her odd tought process, the results are a rather apt illustration of the saying with good intentions paving something...

In terms of pushing for her to be tested for BPD, what would be the ideal outcome, in your opinion, from that? How likely do you think that ideal outcome would be?

First, there is the consideration that it would be a valid identity she could latch on (and maybe focus on at the expense of the current, if I'm dreaming), and the process could hopefully lead to her becoming more livable, if not for me, at least for the children in the short/medium/long term, and not the current roller coaster of highs and downs I can only be the victim of...

And if I'm reading correctly, it sounds like you are not in the United States. It's okay not to disclose what country you're from, though you can if you feel comfortable doing so. More just to let readers know that USA-applicable legal approaches may not be workable for your situation.

Correct, I live in Switzerland. I am no legal expert, but I've started to research the issues concerning separation and divorce according to our local context. At least we married with separation of property. I am trying to find what is possible when it comes to mandating a psychiatric expertise, but ideally she'd do it of her own volition, same for the rest.

That being said, you mention the mediation meetings coming up. Are those about ending the relationship (separation/divorce)? Child custody/parenting time? Something else? And do you have a lawyer/solicitor/representative?

There's been mention of separation. We had requested assistance last year from child welfare social services, when everything was at its worse, and this enabled her to receive assistance, coaching and counselling, but since the crisis it has refocused on co-parenting on top of her issues, the charter of which has become untenable following the recent events, after which she called them, who called me talking about new agreements, when I repeatedly highlighted that agreements were pointless if I was the only one to follow them, they started pointing at separation being the logical issue, of which she later sounded convinced, occasionaly talking about coming to an agreement between ourselves or else other people will.
Child custody/parenting time is gonna be a mess if total separation, but I have substantial evidence of on top of being the full-time breadwinner, I am doing most of the groceries and preparing the majority of meals among many other things...
Our house's layout could allow for some degree of separation while staying under the same roof, and we have two cars. And if my guts keep wishing to have her as far away as possible, short term it would be very damaging to the 2 little children. I don't know if there's a way to enforce child rearing duties in such a context beside the financial aspect (which would be significant already, with her reluctantly and seldomly contributing to the budget as of now, apparently alimony is not automatic here, at least half time work is expected when the youngest child enters school, which will be our case). Part of me had been wishing to run away closer to my job and/or family and let rot that now sinister feeling house, but the 2 big ones that would rather go with me have the deeper roots around here after an arduous adaptation...
Most procedures are done here with common agreement, I hope we won't reach the litigation stage (and from my perspective she has more to lose). I'll be consulting with a legal expert regarding separations soon. I despair at anything that could be done regarding that smartphone addiction...

Lots of questions, I know. Feel free to post any time here, we're here for you as you try to make your family situation better.

-kells76

Thanks again...

[Lostranslation]

Quite a surreal few days, with her being cordial as usual, after the meeting which went as follow :

Me being menaced and then bitten in public after asking she calms down -> her feeling threatened -> her being aggressed -> me being the aggressor.
Her trying frantically to shut me up and/or deny as I was listing the various major interventions I had to make over the year relative to the children's basic needs and well being.
Laying down short term kids schedules and household logistics, being discouraged regarding the viability of in-house separation.
Affirming my stance on custody is me taking her children away. Me being open to ample visitation rights is projected as once or twice a month. The mediators ask me to reassure her by promising I am not gonna take away the children just to kill them later in order to spite her after she voiced that concern in extreme distress... 
Then her asking and being alarmed at the prospect of the children being forcibly taken away if the parents are unable to reach an agreement.

I'm starting to reach the various therapists that surround us regarding the issue.

How can I try to be constructive in such a context? I really don't know if there's anything salvageable as far as I'm concerned, but I wonder if there's a way to remedy some of the behaviors that otherwise will further traumatize the children and/or lead them to drift away from her...

After a year of trying to figure things out, I feel that time is of the essence more than ever...

[kells76]

The mediators ask me to reassure her by promising I am not gonna take away the children just to kill them later in order to spite her after she voiced that concern in extreme distress...

That sounds shocking. Is it an escalation past things she's said before?

How did the mediation team seem to respond (besides suggesting you reassure her)? And did you end up doing that?

I think you're being wise to contact the therapists involved. Do you plan to bring up your W's statement to them?

[Lostranslation]

That sounds shocking. Is it an escalation past things she's said before?

To some extent yes, but the death topic has been mainly centered around me so far.

At the beginning of the year, during a marital counseling session, I was asked if I had toughts about my own death, to which I opined after which she immediately reacted by asking "just to spite me?". Aghast I replied "to make the pain go away..." (I was heavily ravaged by all the discordances at the time).
A number of times she mentioned being "worried" about me, to therapists and the last time was when we both contacted the police.

The terror of losing the children is deeply ingrained in her (leading to huge counterproductive complexes relative to feeding, hygiene and healthcare). She was constantly terrified when we started therapy for the kids and reaching to social services. There was a time she showed extreme protectiveness and disregard for the safety of third parties when our most problematic child was raising too many issues at school and floated the idea of medicating her (if not transferring to a dedicated institution).

How did the mediation team seem to respond (besides suggesting you reassure her)? And did you end up doing that?

At first I was aghast at what she had just said, but after hearing their suggestion I did so, adding that to me their lives where more precious than my own (not sure that was a good call). Afterwards they positively pointed that our kids were lucky to have parents who both absolutely wanted to keep them, and other points we had agreed to.

I think you're being wise to contact the therapists involved. Do you plan to bring up your W's statement to them?

Yes I've started that with my own, who recommended I discuss with our marital counsellor in private first. I'm also considering contacting our children's psychiatrist who raised first the diagnostic of some of them being traumatized by attachment disorders...

[Lostranslation]

On the topic of violence, early on in the crisis, the few first draining talks we had had elements that sounded straight out of a guidebook, and later if not immediately she'd be transparent about her therapist warning her how usually men would react badly to this and that (rejection/attraction to other women/etc...).

During at least the first 6 month, her mantra that it would be better if I despised her seemed directed by her fear of me being too attracted by her (I still am...).

[kells76]

Couple of things come to mind here...

On the topic of violence, early on in the crisis, the few first draining talks we had had elements that sounded straight out of a guidebook, and later if not immediately she'd be transparent about her therapist warning her how usually men would react badly to this and that (rejection/attraction to other women/etc...).

During at least the first 6 month, her mantra that it would be better if I despised her seemed directed by her fear of me being too attracted by her (I still am...).

Many pwBPD struggle with intense shame. It is difficult for them to hear anything that even tiptoes near the idea of "maybe there's something going on with you... maybe it isn't everyone else causing problems". pwBPD struggle with a lack of sense of self (as you've seen) plus harmfully intense emotions, including self loathing. One coping mechanism that is often seen is blame/projection, or doing whatever it takes to not be the problem.

So I would maybe not take at face value "she was totally transparent about the T saying that men are the problem". She may be "adjusting" what was actually said in the session, to decrease her own feelings of shame, and to have an authority to point to so she can feel like "see, my T says that it's all men who are the problem, not me at all!"

Unless we are personally present in the session or hear it directly from the therapist, I would suggest that when our pwBPD tells us "My therapist told me...", we take it with a grain of salt.

...

Yes I've started that with my own, who recommended I discuss with our marital counsellor in private first. I'm also considering contacting our children's psychiatrist who raised first the diagnostic of some of them being traumatized by attachment disorders...

In terms of getting it "on the record" that your W is starting to talk about "your death" or "you killing the kids" -- very, very important to report that to professionals. Glad you are doing that. You could even frame it to them as "My W said XYZ in mediation in front of the mediators... what would you recommend I do when I hear that? Who should I tell about that? What are your thoughts for how I can best handle that, for the kids' sake?" Frame it less as "she's bad for saying XYZ" and more as -- I just want to learn, what is the best way to approach this, and how can I approach this keeping my kids' needs front and center? It is concerning to hear that kind of talk and now is definitely the time to shine some light on it with third party professionals.

Did you end up contacting the kids' psych? If so, how did that go?

[Lostranslation]

Couple of things come to mind here...

Many pwBPD struggle with intense shame. It is difficult for them to hear anything that even tiptoes near the idea of "maybe there's something going on with you... maybe it isn't everyone else causing problems". pwBPD struggle with a lack of sense of self (as you've seen) plus harmfully intense emotions, including self loathing. One coping mechanism that is often seen is blame/projection, or doing whatever it takes to not be the problem.

So I would maybe not take at face value "she was totally transparent about the T saying that men are the problem". She may be "adjusting" what was actually said in the session, to decrease her own feelings of shame, and to have an authority to point to so she can feel like "see, my T says that it's all men who are the problem, not me at all!"

Unless we are personally present in the session or hear it directly from the therapist, I would suggest that when our pwBPD tells us "My therapist told me...", we take it with a grain of salt.

Shame was indeed  something that permeated her during all those years. But when came the ADHD diagnosis, for a while she gleefully used it to excuse many of her hardships and failings.

Many of these talks were odd, as usually she would highlight how much she respects me and "loves me as a person", how the problem is with her (that was when she seemed hesitant about being bisexual and shaken by being repulsed by the idea of a man).

Then, after she had passed the Rubicon, when I would bring out the topic of her continued displays of affection, interest and neediness being disturbing/damaging to me, she'd lightly say "oh yes my therapist told me men are confused/etc by that", or "I want us to stay good friends, you're the father of my children after all".

In terms of getting it "on the record" that your W is starting to talk about "your death" or "you killing the kids" -- very, very important to report that to professionals. Glad you are doing that. You could even frame it to them as "My W said XYZ in mediation in front of the mediators... what would you recommend I do when I hear that? Who should I tell about that? What are your thoughts for how I can best handle that, for the kids' sake?" Frame it less as "she's bad for saying XYZ" and more as -- I just want to learn, what is the best way to approach this, and how can I approach this keeping my kids' needs front and center? It is concerning to hear that kind of talk and now is definitely the time to shine some light on it with third party professionals.

Did you end up contacting the kids' psych? If so, how did that go?

I intend on having all of this on records as much as possible. Thankfully some of the most extreme episodes were with adult if not professional witnesses.

The kids doctor is currently on vacations but I'll be reaching to him ASAP. Might as well try also with our 3rd's psychologist to whom I voiced my concerns relative to abandonment threats.

Another topic I've also voiced, and which is worrysome to an extent, is that at some point she voiced some concern regarding my firearms to our therapists.
I happened to move some of them and essential parts and ammo in front of her just prior to our big vacation, saying I wanted them less accessible (I was at the time in great confusion, worried about the prospect of either the lover or its potentially jealous husband showing up).
After the vacation, the part with the police and hearing that concern from my therapist, I wanted to move again those by a 3rd party in a vault, but could not find any of what I had moved previously in the places I tought I would have moved them (but there is some degree of confusion in me, and I haven't upturned the whole house yet, best case in current situation is that I've hidden them really well...). I did that openly with the kids around asking question, and asked her but did not confront her.
The reassuring part is that the most dangerous weapon, which she has some knowledge on how to use, have essential parts secured away now, but remains two complete but untested WW2 era heirlooms with ammo, while the pistol is easy to conceal, the full rifle is hard to miss...

[Lostranslation]

Hoping we can defuse that firearms concern with some mediation, which would probably bring some peace of mind to both. I can't bring myself to talk to her anymore, outside of kids logistics and the smallest chit chat, given how often I've been caught in her seeking validation for my destruction and/or her distress switching to passive-agressive.

Something that is weighing on my mind, yet I can't get out of, is that I can't allow myself to be nice to her anymore after being trampled over and over so many times, even as day to day she adresses me in a cordial if not cheerful manner. It has reached the point where the other day, as I replied very coldly to her, my daughter asked me why I wasn't answering nicely to Mommy.

I started explaining her how there too many things I can't forget, and considered explaining to her an elephant's memory, but now I'm finding myself unable to teach good lessons because I can neither forget nor lie...

 

[kells76]

Hi Lt;

If I read your posts correctly, I think you are in a country that is fairly accepting of having firearms around the house -- I believe it is seen as socially pretty normal, or even expected or required?

That is tricky stuff because it is tempting to want to defend oneself against accusations and insinuations. Am I tracking with you that this "concern" she raised:

Another topic I've also voiced, and which is worrysome to an extent, is that at some point she voiced some concern regarding my firearms to our therapists.
I happened to move some of them and essential parts and ammo in front of her just prior to our big vacation, saying I wanted them less accessible (I was at the time in great confusion, worried about the prospect of either the lover or its potentially jealous husband showing up).

is about you and firearms access... not her and firearms access?

I wonder if she is throwing a bunch of highly emotionally charged topics out there to the professionals and mediators as a distraction from her incredibly unsafe behaviors. That is to say -- if she can keep "normal" people chasing after these topics she tosses out here, to try to explain/discuss/plan/address those topics, then she "wins" because the focus is off of her and her instability.

First it was her saying "I'm just so concerned that Lt will kill himself or the kids", so that had to be addressed... letting her off the hook.

Now it's "I'm just so concerned about Lt's access to firearms", so that becomes the focus.

It seems like she's getting what she wants, which is you on the back heel and no uncomfortable focus on her contributions.

The more we defend against the unhinged accusations (after some point), the less time we're spending focusing on the core issues. She doesn't want a focus on the core issues, she wants distraction and no spotlight on her.

Now I wouldn't necessarily suggest "oh just don't address it". But maybe there's a more proactive way to either put the two of you on equal footing or to "go on the offensive", instead of being caught off guard and going back to defending against wild accusations.

One approach might be -- if she is so concerned about firearms in the house, then you propose that both of you take a firearms safety class and that neither of you use the firearms until the class is complete and reported to the professionals. That's just a brainstorming idea -- it wouldn't have to be exactly that -- but the point is that it isn't just you who has to say "okay, I'll be the only one to do the class, because I have to defend myself against the accusations". Require her do it too -- that would be the "we're equal parents" approach. And it puts her in a corner: if she's so concerned about this issue, then surely it isn't too much to ask her to take a class to be safer, right?

Another approach might be to make one firm brief statement and then not address her accusations again: "I'm saying this once and then I'm done. There is nothing to Mrs. Lt's shocking insinuation that I'm unsafe around firearms, and it's such a wild and irrational accusation that I will not engage with it again." The key would be to stick to the boundary of "I addressed this on Day/Date in front of Professionals A B & C and nothing more needs to be said". Sometimes, "overengaging" with false/wild assertions gives them a weight they don't merit.

...

Something that is weighing on my mind, yet I can't get out of, is that I can't allow myself to be nice to her anymore after being trampled over and over so many times, even as day to day she adresses me in a cordial if not cheerful manner. It has reached the point where the other day, as I replied very coldly to her, my daughter asked me why I wasn't answering nicely to Mommy.

I started explaining her how there too many things I can't forget, and considered explaining to her an elephant's memory, but now I'm finding myself unable to teach good lessons because I can neither forget nor lie...

That's a hard place to be in. Again, it's so tempting to want to explain our way out of situations.

Sometimes we get opportunities when kids ask those kids of questions, though. It's possible your daughter was asking not only out of curiosity, but because of how she was feeling inside.

Her question seemed like a factual question, but I suspect that behind her words, she was feeling something that maybe she wanted to talk about.

It gives you an opportunity to take a moment, actually, to get yourself together, because when she asks stuff like "why did you say XYZ to Mommy", you can instead reply (with warm/positive body language):

"Why do you ask, honey?"

Then she might say something like: "Because you used to be nice to Mommy and now you're mean" (or whatever a kid might say).

That, too, gives you an opportunity to focus on how your daughter is feeling: "Oh honey, how are you feeling about that?"

And she might say: "Mad at you for being mean"

This could hard stuff to hear, but if this is kind of how the conversation goes, it could actually be a good thing, because it means your daughter trusts you enough to share how she feels. You can keep that safe feeling going for her by validating how she's feeling -- which shows her that she doesn't have to "always like you" or feel only certain ways for you to love her. A reply could be:

"It's pretty normal to feel mad when we think we see people being mean"

and so on. It's hard to know exactly how these conversations will go, but if you can do a few "moves" where you keep the focus on how your D is feeling vs explaining to her why you're right, that's a huge, huge thing for kids growing up with a BPD parent. She won't be able to get that validation from her mom, so if you can take the long view and show her you're a person who listens to how she feels, that'll be a big investment.

We have a few good threads on validation over in the Tools and skills area, if you hadn't seen it yet.

...

Back in July you mentioned that you might meet with a legal expert about separations soon. Did that happen? If so, how did it go? Your situation sounds so far beyond typical that I'd hope that any expert would see that you may need a unique approach.

Glad you're posting here. It can really help even as a "journal" of what we go through.

[Lostranslation]

Hi Lt;

If I read your posts correctly, I think you are in a country that is fairly accepting of having firearms around the house -- I believe it is seen as socially pretty normal, or even expected or required?

Hi Kells, thanks for following and your feedbacks.

Yes in my country firearms are a more or less normal for the male citizenry. We have universal military service, spread over about a decade, during which we are entrusted our personal ordnance AR (full auto capable), which we keep at home beetween times of service (nowadays about 1/3 of an age class will serve, the rest either being unfit or opting for a civilian service). It's fairly common to see servicemen carrying their weapons openly in stations and public transport as they journey to/from their military base at the beginning/end of a period of service.
We are also required to practice sharpshooting in civilian every year in community shooting ranges, managed by the local shooting societies, which will also offer sports courses using ordnance weapons equivalents to teenagers, while being sponsored by the army (I attended those in my youth).
Sharpshooting is somewhat seen as a national sport (William Tell mythos & drill traditions dating back to the Middle Ages), local and national competition events are still part of community life in the countryside, and are also getting more and more open to girls (my wife got to shoot a couple times in such an event using my weapon, with monitoring from myself and elders).

Underscoring that culture are constant safety rules (carrying a loaded weapon in the open is anecdotal outside of security personel and military exercices).

Once you're done serving, provided you show minimal interest in sports shooting, you get to keep your weapon after conversion to semi-auto, which I did. In my youth those could be traded freely, as those originating from the civilian market, but in recent years layers of paperwork have been added (permitting, registration and some limitations). The WW2 rifle I got with my Dad back in the days the arsenals were clearing the inventories (for a pittance after showing you were a citizen). The WW2 pistol was my Grandpa's he kept after serving like most in his generation did.

That is tricky stuff because it is tempting to want to defend oneself against accusations and insinuations. Am I tracking with you that this "concern" she raised:

is about you and firearms access... not her and firearms access?

Yes the concern she raised was clearly about my access to my firearms. She does not have any to her own.

I wonder if she is throwing a bunch of highly emotionally charged topics out there to the professionals and mediators as a distraction from her incredibly unsafe behaviors. That is to say -- if she can keep "normal" people chasing after these topics she tosses out here, to try to explain/discuss/plan/address those topics, then she "wins" because the focus is off of her and her instability.

First it was her saying "I'm just so concerned that Lt will kill himself or the kids", so that had to be addressed... letting her off the hook.

Now it's "I'm just so concerned about Lt's access to firearms", so that becomes the focus.

It seems like she's getting what she wants, which is you on the back heel and no uncomfortable focus on her contributions.

The more we defend against the unhinged accusations (after some point), the less time we're spending focusing on the core issues. She doesn't want a focus on the core issues, she wants distraction and no spotlight on her.

Now I wouldn't necessarily suggest "oh just don't address it". But maybe there's a more proactive way to either put the two of you on equal footing or to "go on the offensive", instead of being caught off guard and going back to defending against wild accusations.

I admit I am not 100% sure of when she emanates calculation or explodes in anxiety. Given how the time she first expressed her concern apparently coincided with the time I ostensibly and hurriedly moved them, it makes sense that the latter event put the issue on her mind. Similarly, the time she talked about the kids being killed was some time after I had been looking for my hidden weapons while preparing to go with the kids somewhere (to have them secured in a safe, which I told my therapist, my relatives and the kids, but not her).

We had very open and transparent communication during our relationship (retrospectively, many landmines were thus triggered), and even during the first 6 month post crisis, but given how worse and worse I'd get after each communication event, I have reduced communication on my side to a trickle.

One approach might be -- if she is so concerned about firearms in the house, then you propose that both of you take a firearms safety class and that neither of you use the firearms until the class is complete and reported to the professionals. That's just a brainstorming idea -- it wouldn't have to be exactly that -- but the point is that it isn't just you who has to say "okay, I'll be the only one to do the class, because I have to defend myself against the accusations". Require her do it too -- that would be the "we're equal parents" approach. And it puts her in a corner: if she's so concerned about this issue, then surely it isn't too much to ask her to take a class to be safer, right?

Another approach might be to make one firm brief statement and then not address her accusations again: "I'm saying this once and then I'm done. There is nothing to Mrs. Lt's shocking insinuation that I'm unsafe around firearms, and it's such a wild and irrational accusation that I will not engage with it again." The key would be to stick to the boundary of "I addressed this on Day/Date in front of Professionals A B & C and nothing more needs to be said". Sometimes, "overengaging" with false/wild assertions gives them a weight they don't merit.

My intention was and still is to have them all secured away in a third party's safe. Parts of one are already, while 2 are missing, with substantial indications she might know of their wereabouts. Trough mediation, I hope we can clarify this uncertainty and remedy the situation. If not, a third party has offered to comb the house, after which, if unfruitfull, the logical step would be to declare theft with its legal implications...

At first when I could not find the weapons, I wasn't too concerned, but given her lashings (and projections?), with the input of other people perspectives I've since spent some pretty bad nights...

That's a hard place to be in. Again, it's so tempting to want to explain our way out of situations.

Sometimes we get opportunities when kids ask those kids of questions, though. It's possible your daughter was asking not only out of curiosity, but because of how she was feeling inside.

Her question seemed like a factual question, but I suspect that behind her words, she was feeling something that maybe she wanted to talk about.

It gives you an opportunity to take a moment, actually, to get yourself together, because when she asks stuff like "why did you say XYZ to Mommy", you can instead reply (with warm/positive body language):

"Why do you ask, honey?"

Then she might say something like: "Because you used to be nice to Mommy and now you're mean" (or whatever a kid might say).

That, too, gives you an opportunity to focus on how your daughter is feeling: "Oh honey, how are you feeling about that?"

And she might say: "Mad at you for being mean"

This could hard stuff to hear, but if this is kind of how the conversation goes, it could actually be a good thing, because it means your daughter trusts you enough to share how she feels. You can keep that safe feeling going for her by validating how she's feeling -- which shows her that she doesn't have to "always like you" or feel only certain ways for you to love her. A reply could be:

"It's pretty normal to feel mad when we think we see people being mean"

and so on. It's hard to know exactly how these conversations will go, but if you can do a few "moves" where you keep the focus on how your D is feeling vs explaining to her why you're right, that's a huge, huge thing for kids growing up with a BPD parent. She won't be able to get that validation from her mom, so if you can take the long view and show her you're a person who listens to how she feels, that'll be a big investment.

We have a few good threads on validation over in the Tools and skills area, if you hadn't seen it yet.

Thanks for the perspective and advice. I'll try to be more attentive as that particular child is the one who tends to be a bit forgotten yet over the elapsed year :

• asked me a few times why I looked sad,
• sensed something was amiss between us,
• displayed the most exhuberant distress when I explained our situation, with talks of running away
• has been asking to sleep with me since then the most consistently
• displayed the most emotions when I got physically assaulted
• has also displayed some of the most provocative behavior
• has always been seen as the spitting image of her mother in looks, character and behavior...

Back in July you mentioned that you might meet with a legal expert about separations soon. Did that happen? If so, how did it go? Your situation sounds so far beyond typical that I'd hope that any expert would see that you may need a unique approach.

Did happen, but was mostly restricted to the patrimonial aspects. Interesting reframing that selling all joint assets would provide the most clean aftermath. Was made aware that settlements would have to be negociated trough a mediating lawyer before being sanctioned by a judge.

Glad you're posting here. It can really help even as a "journal" of what we go through.

Thanks, it helps me stay focused on events.

[Lostranslation]

Still engulfed in weirdness, even if less in doom...

Intertwined with hectic work and trafic delays on my part, I see her working on her looks and putting on unusally revealing brand new summer clothes, and talking about family outings. At some point giving me news of her female cousin who after improbable straight relationship stories is currently with a girl... (I now give the cold shoulder to those normalization attempts).

Yesterday odd meeting with the marriage counselor, with her being on visioconference but only showing her eyes, before being on sound only. At least the situation with firearms and violence in general was clarified, I got them back and secured them away directly. We planned the future meetings where we'll submit issues to be discussed, with him monitoring the discussions.

At some point, as I was using my usual elaborate speech patterns, she pointed that she felt being looked down upon (I refrained from pointing to her 130 IQ). She stressed again how easily she feels theatened by speech patterns and body langage.

He did mention requesting a (psychosocial?) expertise/apparaisal of the family, I hope this will not yield destructive results, but I just can't let things rot as it has been over the past year...

Today coordination meeting with child welfare social services, planning the two weeks ahead. She was much more confrontational on bed/meal schedules and planning, criticizing the quality of my meals while emphasizing she does not do that in front of the children. Guess on next meeting I'll overemphasize the time she considered them fed with a minute portion of instant porridge they all saw as a snack and requested I prepare them the consistent food she maligned...

Those next meetings will be on visioconference so I wonder if we'll see her face.

Interestingly she mentioned her mother coming over for a few days as she'll be on her teaching trip, which she had in the past mentioned preparing together with her friend/friend with benefits/lover/soulmate/wathever to the latter's country of residence... Oddly enough she'll be departing on her birthday (I had been wondering wether I should still have a present for her). Wether she'll be on cloud 9 or a wreck when she comes back in 3 weeks, I really don't know what to expect and what to do...

 

[Lostranslation]

Kids resumed school today, but the prior days have been hectic at home. She started sorting the kids clothes and did get them some new ones (I was the one to do that the last few times...).

But then on Tuesday when I come home in the evening she has started remodelling the living room, and has moved her clothes and belongings from there to the girls room wardrobe.. She asked I help dismantle and move a wardrobe, I refused, objecting me not being consulted regarding the remodeling. Yesterday she had it moved with the help of a kind neighbor...

I'm seeing a rising boundary problem with the children and the most vulnerable one in particular...
For reference, our bedroom had been in a corner of the living room ever since we moved in Summer 2020, and the children would often come at night. When I snapped at the end of 2021 after suffering 2 Covids and other ailments with no respite, we moved our stuff to a suitable suite on another floor, but she only stayed a couple nights before moving back to the living's couch, later moving back her wardrobe as well. The break-up occured only 8 months after that.

Early June she mentioned some talk she had with her therapist which changed her views, and a few days later she went on to sleep in the girl's bedroom, taking for herself the 2nd child's bed which was only partly used (2nd recently got a boudoir space to isolate herself in the home-office my wife uses for evening and night classes).

Outside of me, the bedroom situation is an utter mess. Ever since the children have become aware, the eldest and 2nd ask to sleep with me, sometimes 4th comes but usually 3rd and 4th are glued to their Mom, now in what used to be the Girl's room, while the Boy's has been deserted for weeks.

I am getting really concerned about the kids there...

[kells76]

Do the social services people know about the kids' sleeping situation? If so, what do they think about it?

[Lostranslation]

Do the social services people know about the kids' sleeping situation? If so, what do they think about it?

The change is recent enough (just before vacations), that it's probably been flying under the radar. It's one of the major issues I was gonna raise at the upcoming joint session with the marriage counsellor even before she moved her clothes...

She has a long-term complex regarding co-sleeping. Among the revelations she made to me post-break-up is the fact that she was always anguished at her co-sleeping with the babies being regarded as weird if not sick (until early 2022 she babied the 3y old 4th, and one or several would often join us during the night).

[Lostranslation]

Odd moment there yesterday.

Since she made a solo trip at the beginning of the year, she had a strong impression of the Ocean, marvelling at it being salty after tasting it, and wanting to show it to the kids some day.

At the end of supper we were talking about it again, and I was pointing out how we had been to the sea in Japan this Summer, and previously in several locations. She pointed at not remembering tasting the water.

Then I mentioned the Mediterranean Sea, and she genuinely seemed dumfounded that its water would be salty, with our 9y old explaining "it's a Sea...". She's lived and been to school in a country that borders it, and she's been to it several times including together...
I'm starting to wonder if ADHD can really be that bad on someone with 130 IQ, and/or if the 3 general anesthesia (2 being associated with the heavy blood loss while giving birth) she's had over the last 6 years could have had an impact on her memory...

Her memory issues were a big part of the descent to hell we've faced those last 3 years. As we would have over and over nearly the same draining evening talks which she would forget, that would go a bit better once she started writing stuff, but then it became clear that speaking was useless and only written stuff would be valuable and reassuring to her, then sliding to messaging, to which she seems now addicted from other sources...

[Lostranslation]

And then another that left me wondering :

4y boy (4th) was playing calmly with some toys. 6y old girl (3rd with the major issues) keeps pestering him, smashing his arrangements, and then calling him names. I intervene saying that usually those that say those names are "it", and that I'd be sad if she continued saying those names, she went on hiding in a corner at that point.

Then later wife tells me that 3rd was all sad being told not nice things, telling her that she tought that a Dad would be way above that. She told me I should apologize to her. All kids are very bright, and 3rd is universally perceived as being the most sensible if not the brightest by both relatives, acquaintances and professionals.

I was rather puzzled and did not do anything, thinking about the little one.

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The other day we had a joint session with our marriage counsellor, where we were supposed to start discussing the logistics of separation (particularly finances and the akward sleeping arrangements). I had serious hopes that those issues could be discussed before her solo trip and the session we had scheduled with child protection services. Instead the counsellor informed us that things were ramping up with child protection services, and he briefed us a bit for the upcoming session with them, as things were getting out of his hands.

During that time, I was able to state that previously I could have accepted a faithful sexless marriage for the sake of the children, which she clearly refused (ever since she informed me we were done, our future being a long lasting "open" marriage was her constant stance).

I've been living in an extreme state of FOG for the past year. As I am now trying to shake things I can't help but be afraid of my actions resulting in burned bridges and scorched earth...

I had been reaching to local DV resources during the past few weeks, which were helpful to an extent, if only to listen to my plight, but gave me the clear disclaimer that confidentiality was limited as soon as the well being of children was at stake. I've clearly set things in motion, be it through that, or our tumultuous childcare coaching sessions, or the concerns I've expressed to the marriage counsellor. But I fear that acting as I've done I'm also part of the problem, and that the children are the ones that will suffer the most.

I reached to state hospital structures dealing with BPD, one even being specialized in ADHD associated with BPD, and offering support programs for families, but 120km away and with sessions that would be very hard to attend. They redirected me to a much closer structure which offers programs for families as well, but they clearly stated that a diagnosis would be absolutely necessary...

I contacted our children's psychiatrist, voicing my concerns about the mother in light of her abandonment threats, and he told me that if I had concerns I should reach to children's protection service.

I stated to her that the only way I would agree to her having some degree of custody would be after a psychiatric expertise. I feel that in my honesty I keep shooting myself in the foot... Of course she said that if its war she'd fight tooth and nail, while at the same time expressing concern at the children being taken away if experts intervene...

She's much more livable since she stopped using me as emotional kleenex to comfort her about the hardships of her transition and various angsts, or trying to make me an active participant if not supporter of her new identity while at the same time making long-term plans about "us"... (maybe I should tell her that? maybe some genuine validation at last...).
With appropriate division of financial responsability I feel we could reach something sustainable for the sake of the kids, as long as she stops using me, and keeps her mess away from us as much as possible. But how to reach that? Plus its been years now that I had been telling her that the common budget needed her to contribute regularly and not exceptionally...

I need to find a way to have her accept and be treated so she can be livable, for the sake of the children at least. At least they all seem in rather high spirit since they resumed school.

I've ordered Stop Walking on Eggshells, hope it'll help. I wonder if reading it openly, leaving it in the open or even suggest she reads it with 3rd child in mind would be productive...

Ever since this mess started, I've got the feeling I've been held hostage with the well being of the children and the co-parenting charter, not being allowed to criticize if not having to defend the other parent in front of the children, yet that parent is actively sapping not only my mental health, but the fundamentals of our family and all my core values. And to top it she won't stop messing with another family with 3 young children...

 

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At least ever since I've opened up, I've found a lot of support from my large family, as well as from colleagues on my workplace.

I know she's a kind and good willed person overall. The issue being when the "will" element fades, combined with her odd toughts process.

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Yet again weird moments.

As we were gonna have a long planned family outing in traditional clothings, and I had intended on complimenting her on being more liveable with since she stepped on me less, there she goes changing the terms to suit one of her passions (of which I disapprove) as she can't come due to being sick. I stood my ground to some extent and immediately after she erased the messages she had sent me to prepare the outing. I wonder if her friend we met there and had gifts for the kids matching the aforementioned passion got asked to do so...

We had a meeting with child protection services to introduce us to the mechanisms of separation, and I managed to express my concerns regarding her personality problems past her ADHD, and that it was urgent she got diagnosed and treated before the kids suffer as she have. Projection again probably, but she attacked me of wanting her locked in an institution.

She went to her humanitarian/training trip organized with her friend/lover to the latters country. In-laws came to help watch the kids and it was cordial, also got to spend some quality time without being concerned about having to breathe the same air as her in the evening. But yesterday, about an hour before she'd be back, while playing our 3rd kept telling how she wished her Mom would spend less time away with that person, and that she wanted her. I offered her a hug but she declined and kept talking about her Mother...

Its one of those moments that worry me for her development, and I can't help but be afraid...

All too often I wish to never see her again, but at the same time I know the children are in need of her...
Yet I keep telling myself that I could welcome her back out of respect for the children, while I keep wishing she disappears far far away...

It probably didn't help that lately the children have been asking about going trough our photo albums instead of a bedtime story...

At least I have the full support of my parents, siblings and cousins. But again sitting on the fence, as my inclination is to never see her again at family gatherings, and some are now of the opinion of shunning her, but at the same time I can't help but think of the children.

 

Edit : the more I do research, the more I realize all the red flags were there, flying high, from the onset of our very first meeting 11 years ago...

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On impulsivity/self-harm and how to react :

A little less than a year ago, she was still itching after the whole family got treated for worms issues (she had insisted on fruitlessly using homeopathy for about a year before I intervened). She went on to consult a doctor and a few days later she decided to get operated to remove some exposed mucous membrane (she is extremely influenciable, particularly from Doctors, which she admitted and was terrified of when she started therapy). I could only ask if this was a good idea and if her problem was only a mild case of hemorrhoids (which she denied).

It was only a month after she broke our relationship, and as I was shellshocked I barely reacted, acting cold and robotic when I went on to pick her up from the clinic, and managed the house and kids as she was incapacitated.

At the same time she got something she didn't like excised from the front and would later rave of the result to me and to her friends. But then the itch came back and she'd monopolize the throne a lot. Then I stopped noticing her toy, and some time later, when we had a talk, she tearfully confessed being unable to imagine herself with a man or even read the porn she used to. Over the course of the following months she would at times highlight as a big accomplishment how she'd manage to hug male relatives or acquaintances...

Jumping from an online relationship to a physical exploration and identifying as lesbian occured only many months later.

It took me a very very long time to connect the dots, and as she seems to have had continuous bathroom problems even to this day I asked her about a week ago if she still had problems following her operation. She confirmed and I asked again if those hadn't been hemorrhoids, she said no but a few days later went on to ask her doctor who told her yes...

She's now spent about a year in a sorry state and undergoing rehabilitation. Given how she spends her days stuck at home or ferrying the kids to their various therapists and has not done any regular exercice for 2 years I don't see how she'll ever improve (on her fateful birthday, her gift was supposed to be a yearly family subscription to the indoor swimming pool, to do some sport after recovering from Covid. She shortly cancelled it as she planned her operation, and it has stayed long forgotten ever since).

On one hand, at times, it feels to me like well earned karma... but obviously it is not something that can last forever with 4 kids to manage (I am particularly alarmed at the prospect of her undergoing something new).

Shellshocked as I was, I could only react sternly, even when acting kindly would have been the Christian course of action. But then of course its yet another of those cases where I've been right all along and where she'd have done what she wanted anyway...

At times I do feel pity, and even thinks of expressing compassion towards her, but I fear being bitten in return as has often been the case...

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On talking being excruciating :

At the beginning of the year, when we were still talking and she was expressing some degree of admiration for me and how the problem was only with her, at some point she made a moving speech on how, using the past tense, I had been her rock, her substitute father, I had been a stable reference for her and from me she managed to learn inconditional love. I could only reply I wished she hadn't had to kill the father...
Shortly later I talked about it again, acquiescing to having seen her as a daughter figure to some extent (as in having to teach her many things and protect her), to which she sternly replied : "And you wanted to sleep with your daughter?"...

Now I am extremely defensive if not agressive when it comes with interacting with her.