First ever message on any type of forum. Hi guys..

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello everybody
(Hi Dr Nick)
No idea what to put here.. Erm..
I'm guessing my story is really familiar to anyone who's been in a relationship with someone with borderline traits.
I'm eight years in, out, in, out and so on, ad nauseum..
My first same-sex relationship. My first borderline..
I've been utterly consumed and I feel like a hollowed out shell. I'm really trying to keep the outside shape of me coherent. Inside I'm a big mush.
The love bombing started at a point in my life where things were shattering in various ways (bereavement, return to work after mat leave, house move, other more insidious and gnawing things). I truly felt seen and wanted in a way I've never felt before. It absolutely took my breath away and I'm ashamed to say I had an affair and left the father of my baby daughter for her.
Suffice to say, it hasn't gone well.
I guess it's weird here because all the defences I normally put out, to fend off the accusations from her that I'm: mentally ill, the most selfish person in the world, avoidantly attached to a pathological level, a drama queen! I don't need to use them here do I? Because maybe you've also been on the receiving end and you know its just not true. I know it's not true but after eight years of intermittently being told I'm an awful, selfish human being or, conversely, that I'm a goddess, my mind feels like the aftermath of a hurricane.
She left me again yesterday and now I need to do something different. This relationship has nearly destroyed me and I want to talk to other people who know what this place looks like because, honestly, I feel just mental..
I've been in individual psychotherapy from the start of the relationship. It helps. I need more. I need help to cope if and when she turns up to my house threatening me (the love bombing as a way to entice me back is a distant memory). And if she doesn't, I will really need help, weird as that sounds. Being blanked out of existence and her story has always hurt more than being overtly abused.
I know I'm co-creating it. I know in responsible for my choices. And I'm in one hell of a mess, but cautiously hopeful that maybe this place can help me and hold me a little...

Much love.. X

[Newnewleaf]

Hello everybody
(Hi Dr Nick)
No idea what to put here.. Erm..
I'm guessing my story is really familiar to anyone who's been in a relationship with someone with borderline traits.
I'm eight years in, out, in, out and so on, ad nauseum..
My first same-sex relationship. My first borderline..
I've been utterly consumed and I feel like a hollowed out shell. I'm really trying to keep the outside shape of me coherent. Inside I'm a big mush.
The love bombing started at a point in my life where things were shattering in various ways (bereavement, return to work after mat leave, house move, other more insidious and gnawing things). I truly felt seen and wanted in a way I've never felt before. It absolutely took my breath away and I'm ashamed to say I had an affair and left the father of my baby daughter for her.
Suffice to say, it hasn't gone well.
I guess it's weird here because all the defences I normally put out, to fend off the accusations from her that I'm: mentally ill, the most selfish person in the world, avoidantly attached to a pathological level, a drama queen! I don't need to use them here do I? Because maybe you've also been on the receiving end and you know its just not true. I know it's not true but after eight years of intermittently being told I'm an awful, selfish human being or, conversely, that I'm a goddess, my mind feels like the aftermath of a hurricane.
She left me again yesterday and now I need to do something different. This relationship has nearly destroyed me and I want to talk to other people who know what this place looks like because, honestly, I feel just mental..
I've been in individual psychotherapy from the start of the relationship. It helps. I need more. I need help to cope if and when she turns up to my house threatening me (the love bombing as a way to entice me back is a distant memory). And if she doesn't, I will really need help, weird as that sounds. Being blanked out of existence and her story has always hurt more than being overtly abused.
I know I'm co-creating it. I know in responsible for my choices. And I'm in one hell of a mess, but cautiously hopeful that maybe this place can help me and hold me a little...

Much love.. X

[Newnewleaf]

Hello again,

I could really do with some tips from fellow survivors to keep me going re the following:
- when my brain picks up the story she repeatedly told me; that we can't work as a couple because I'm too selfish/unavailable (this is because I didn't want her to be near my daughter, whom she also repeatedly loved/discarded, until she could start working on herself and do it differently with her. That was one of the boundaries I learned to enforce in the last 18 months and it has caused utter hell for me). Then I feel terrible for not doing more to 'save' the relationship.
- what to say to myself when I see that mental picture of her playing the victim with everyone around her, who will tell her everything she wants to hear, about how she 'did everything she could' but that (middle distance stare, wipe away tear, gulp 'no really I'm fine') you just can't have a relationship with someone like me (selfish, psychopathic, autistic, psychotic and constantly gaslighting her to believe that I love her and want her, in her words). Why does it bother me so much that I am wrongly portrayed? I can't control it. But man, it really gets to me. Like I want to release a film of our relationship for everyone to watch and go 'ahh, that's messed up. I get it now. Wow! manipulative and coercive!'
-what to do with the terror that inhabits my body from the moment I wake up to the moment I fall asleep. This is based on the fear that she's left me for good this time (I'm embarrassed to admit how many times she has left me in the eight years we've been 'together') and that she's probably charming someone else in to bed right now and squished down whatever need she felt for me. Logically I should be delighted if she's left me for good! Tell my amygdala. I'm in constant fear and I can't eat...
Anything you've got, I could really do with.
Thank you for reading X

[once removed]

I'm in one hell of a mess, but cautiously hopeful that maybe this place can help me and hold me a little...

weve got you.

The love bombing started at a point in my life where things were shattering in various ways (bereavement, return to work after mat leave, house move, other more insidious and gnawing things). I truly felt seen and wanted in a way I've never felt before. It absolutely took my breath away
...
after eight years of intermittently being told I'm an awful, selfish human being or, conversely, that I'm a goddess, my mind feels like the aftermath of a hurricane.

eight years is a long time. you invested a lot in this relationship, in its timing, in its promise.

youve also been through the wringer, and you have some idea that your ex loved one has, well, a tendency to express herself in extreme, and over the top ways, for better, and for worse.

when my brain picks up the story she repeatedly told me; that we can't work as a couple because I'm too selfish/unavailable

an ex is usually not a very reliable person to give reasoning for a breakup.

they may be consumed with pain and/or resentment. their mind is subject to change, and to selective memory. their reasoning and motivations are usually geared toward their own selfishness (and i dont necessarily use that word in a negative connotation, but people are self centered and self focused as a relationship breaks down), and they are not usually considering your point of view, or the big picture.

so at best, you get their perspective, which is really subject to change.

its a hurtful thing to do, and really just bad form, to blame someone for a breakup. for her to put it all on you, or all on one thing, suggests she is speaking out of hurt, and shes far too consumed by that to see things your way, or any other way, really.

unfortunately, it happens. and it may well be an accurate reflection of how she feels, or at least how she felt at the time. that doesnt mean you need to give it more consideration than that.

what to say to myself when I see that mental picture of her playing the victim with everyone around her,

well, start by reminding yourself that, presumably, this is in your mind. it may be an accurate idea, or you may have read/seen/heard some of the things that shes been saying, and certainly you know her well enough to have some idea of how she might behave, but still; if youre not actually present for any of this, its kind of like how i played out imagined arguments with my ex for months after the breakup.

but second, consider your injuries. this person made you feel both powerfully built up, and powerfully torn down. on one hand, you are mourning the "good part" (the love), and at the same time, holding on to the "bad part" (the hurt). the thing about all of this, is that both are/were unrealistic.

it seems clear that along with feeling like youve been made the "bad guy" while she "gets away with it all", you are dying to be seen and heard. likely by her, primarily, but anyone would help.

i did too. it was maddening. even after the pain was mostly gone, i couldnt shake that sense of wanting to say my piece, of wanting "justice". there are ways to give yourself this. they will help. in my case, i did a lot of creative writing, but there are many ways.

(this is because I didn't want her to be near my daughter, whom she also repeatedly loved/discarded, until she could start working on herself and do it differently with her. That was one of the boundaries I learned to enforce in the last 18 months and it has caused utter hell for me

this is a pretty significant incident in the relationship that is probably worth looking more closely at.

it is pretty hard to have a relationship that can work if she has that kind of relationship with your daughter. thats not to say you are wrong, or to blame, in doing it. its to say obviously there were major problems.

how did things get to that point? what did she do?

[SinisterComplex]

Hello and welcome to the fam  . Please know we are always listening and paying attention. With that said continue to post, vent, share, ask as many questions as you want and need to.

We all get it here and we understand. In the meantime please be kind to you and please take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

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[Newnewleaf]

Hello!
I just want to start by saying that when your first statement was 'we've got you' that it caused me to burst into grateful tears and cry for some time.
It feels surreal that maybe I've found people who know some of what this is like and how I may feel.
As ever, these relationships are complex and I don't want to write War and Peace here. Suffice to say, that after the love bombing she moved in with me and my baby daughter (who has a learning disability). It was love's young dream for a few months and then the devaluing and discarding started. This was my first experience of these machinations and it utterly floored me. Depending upon your view point, I am an excellent/terrible person to discard because I carry my own childhood abandonment wound and get utterly hooked in. Every time she discarded me I would be like a baby on the floor. Except like an adult woman trying to work and raise a baby with additional needs. She'd sweep back in and almost laugh at my state, like 'what are you doing down there? Don't be daft, as if I'd leave you'. Then 'let's just get married'. Then hours or days later I'd be a villain again and I'd be left.
When she was there she 'parented' my daughter. Sometimes she parented solidly, with kindness and safe boundaries, Often not though,  and would be more like a goofy older sister. She would renege on childcare commitments at the last minute if I was doing something she disapproved of (gym, friends) but not if it was an approved activity (work or health appointment). I realise that anything that triggers her abandonment wound triggers the release of rage and hate. No sadness or vulnerability. Just immediate rage and then devaluing and discard.
I left her twice. I find it hard to admit, but need to, that it was me that got us back together the first time. She the second. Ever since the second though I have implemented a boundary where the only time we can spend together is when I'm not with my daughter, which is only 2/14 days.
That is until the discard cycle can stop so that there is some solidity and then I feel like I can bring my little girl back in (she's nine now) because there will be less risk that she'll be picked up/left etc. My daughter has struggled with that and I am acutely aware that my choice of partner has caused that harm. She does not know that I have been seeing her/the ex/PwBPD for the last 18 months.
Of course my ex's view is that I am deliberately blocking the relationship and that she never discards me. Her view is that if I ever see my friends or family, or go to the yoga retreat that I went on on Sunday, then I am prioritising others over her and that is unacceptable. If I do unacceptable things then she cannot speak to me because I am 'taking the pis* out of her' and treating her like a mug (do these translate into American?). And she won't stand for that. No way. She wants someone who wants her. Not someone with an avoidant attachment disorder (her opinion, not mine) who'd rather see their friends.
The idea to her that she has any problems is laughable, so no chance that she'll seek the help she wants (she'll get help for symptoms of her stuff, like CBT for anxiety about driving on motorways and she'll take endless pain killers for her many physical pains, but she will not get psychotherapy and truly seems to believe that I am mad and wrong and broken).
So that's the bit about my daughter. There is no ownership from my ex about the cycle. Anything that happens is, in her eyes, 100% my fault and I am 'using my daughter as a way mess with her head'. Of course I am not, or I certainly don't see it that way.
Honestly, what has kept me in is the avoidance of the harrowing, gut wrenching agony that takes over my body when I believe she's left me for good. Negative reinforcement. And this ludicrous hope that, just maybe, she will see me soon and want me and she's my soul mate and blah blah, I'm sure you've heard this before! It feels so freaking true though. Like that feeling of needing her is the only truth that exists and everything else is wrong. I know how that sounds..
And none of my friends get this. I understand their frustration at me. Just leave her and find someone else. You've had other relationships, you'll be fine. and so on.. I just don't really talk about it as a rule.
Sorry if I'm rambling.. I do have a psychotherapist and have had for the whole duration of this relationship. I do have good friends although I've minimised the bad parts of this relationship out of a sense of shame. I often just feel like I'm walking around, looking normal but putting all my effort into putting one foot in front of the other. My insides feel either hollowed out or churning.
It's really, really messed up, isn't it?

Thank you for being here with mex

[once removed]

I just want to start by saying that when your first statement was 'we've got you' that it caused me to burst into grateful tears and cry for some time.

i came here twelve years ago after my breakup. it was a god send to discover that there were people who understood what i was going through, in fact were going through it themselves. you have a support system now. things really can get better from here.

I left her twice. I find it hard to admit, but need to, that it was me that got us back together the first time. She the second. Ever since the second though I have implemented a boundary where the only time we can spend together is when I'm not with my daughter, which is only 2/14 days.

a couple breaking up and getting back together a time or two is not unusual, or necessarily unhealthy. over 60% of couples do this.

it is unusual to have a hard "you cannot see my child" rule. not unusual to wait a while to introduce the child. but a relationship where one is banned from the other speaks to extraordinary circumstances.

and, again, i want to stress, not a right or wrong move to make, but something(s) was really damaged about this relationship.

Of course my ex's view is that I am deliberately blocking the relationship and that she never discards me. Her view is that if I ever see my friends or family, or go to the yoga retreat that I went on on Sunday, then I am prioritising others over her and that is unacceptable. If I do unacceptable things then she cannot speak to me because I am 'taking the pis* out of her' and treating her like a mug (do these translate into American?). And she won't stand for that. No way. She wants someone who wants her. Not someone with an avoidant attachment disorder (her opinion, not mine) who'd rather see their friends.

it doesnt seem like you agree with her. how do you feel about it?

Honestly, what has kept me in is the avoidance of the harrowing, gut wrenching agony that takes over my body when I believe she's left me for good. Negative reinforcement. And this ludicrous hope that, just maybe, she will see me soon and want me and she's my soul mate and blah blah, I'm sure you've heard this before! It feels so freaking true though. Like that feeling of needing her is the only truth that exists and everything else is wrong. I know how that sounds..

sure, i can relate. it was my first adult relationship, and really my only serious relationship as an adult. it was the first time i seriously considered something like marriage. it wasnt even close - we were together just shy of three years, and my longest relationship before that was 3 months.

we, too, had a lot of conflict that went unresolved, if it was resolvable. there were times i tried to leave. there were times i was left. things sort of coming to a head and exploding isnt usually the way i think either party ever started off wanting things to happen, but sometimes it does.

You've had other relationships, you'll be fine. and so on.. I just don't really talk about it as a rule.

prioritize the figures in your support group.

sometimes, during the worst of times, the best support i got was just the presence of another human being. we didnt have to talk about the relationship, or how i felt, or any of that. that would not have been my friends strong suit anyway. just having another person around went a long way toward easing the feelings of isolation i felt.

find one or two people in your support group. pick one you can just vent to, who can just listen, wont necessarily try to challenge your perspective even, but someone who is a good listener. have another who will listen to you vent, but will challenge your perspective (when requested) and help center you. the rest? enjoy your time with them. soak up the ways that they like you for you. see yourself in their eyes.

if there isnt a good friend who can do either of those things, theyre good roles for a peer support group like this, or a therapeutic setting.

regardless, dont believe that you have to go this alone.

[Newnewleaf]

Hi again,

Sorry, struggling with the concept of excerpts, so I'll see if I've done this right..

you said..


a couple breaking up and getting back together a time or two is not unusual, or necessarily unhealthy. over 60% of couples do this.

On this you're absolutely right, and in my eagerness not to write an epic on the ins and outs I clearly failed to mention that she has discarded me A LOT, maybe 100? Maybe 150 times? (that's embarrassing to even write)
I've ended it twice. Out of all of those times, guess which ones she's stuck on?
Yup. Her discards of me are an irrelevance and, I think, in her head my just desserts for abandoning her (as in.. working, seeing friends, going to the gym and so on).
After some time on this forum, I understand now why she cannot see her discards of me, why she cannot own them or the significant harm they've done me (they are generally preceded by moments of incredible connection, I see this isn't a coincidence).


You also wrote:

it is unusual to have a hard "you cannot see my child" rule. not unusual to wait a while to introduce the child. but a relationship where one is banned from the other speaks to extraordinary circumstances.

and, again, i want to stress, not a right or wrong move to make, but something(s) was really damaged about this relationship.


You are right. We tried for years to be a family. I gradually realised the impact of all those discards on my daughter. When she was a baby/toddler, I felt that perhaps she didn't get that this woman had suddenly gone from her life again. She always had me and would see her dad regularly.
Over time I see the damage created by a parent figure who randomly leaves their child and intermittently shows up to be there with them.

On reflection, my ex seems to lack even the basic skills of putting herself in and out of interactions with us. It feels a bit like being with a big dog... When she wants us she bounds over and jumps all over us and doesn't see that she's encroaching on boundaries. In those moments she's all like 'let's get married, I love you!'. The she switches, very quickly to a snarling, raging animal and it feels genuinely frightening to be around her. She also just leaves, for an indeterminate period of time. So all or nothing. Either all over us or raging at us or nowhere to be seen.
In choosing a relationship with her I have chosen to put my daughter into a relationship with someone who cannot see her, lacks the object permanency to show up consistently or the theory of mind or empathy skills set to think from her perspective. Don 't get me wrong, my ex did show up as a parent, she could be fantastic. Boundaries, care and everything. But it was about when she showed up and how unpredictably that would collapse.   


Right now though, I have bigger fish to fry than my own abandonment pain and making sense of all of this.
I previously mentioned that when my ex wanted me back after a discard that she didn't love bomb me, she threatened me. It looks like this has just started. I'm scared. And I mean scared. There is one hugely complicating factor here and it is that she knows something about me that, if shared, could lead to me losing my career. It's nothing that relates to safety of others or anything illegal, don't worry. I and my therapist, who knows everything, consider me safe in my work.
But it's a card she's played a few times before, as in.. 'if you don't get back with me, I will ensure you lose your career, your ability to earn money, and thus your house and safety'. I am really anxious that these threats will start now. I have read stuff about dealing with emotional blackmail and FOG etc and this is a real threat.
Last year I took her back because she gave me that ultimatum. The time we spent together would probably be good fodder for a dark comedy or a Black Mirror episode. She would yell at me that I didn't look like I was having fun and that she was going to all this effort and I would be shaking with fear and then, when braver, agreeing and saying 'yes, I am here because you threaten me and I am scared and that doesn't make for a great romantic meal out does it?'.

I don't know if anyone else has experience with that level of coercion?
I daren't go to the police with what I have on her because she's made it perfectly clear that then she will press the button on losing me my career (which took about 15 years to train in etc)..
I feel that my anxiety now is really blocking my opportunity to do the deep-level work on myself that I clearly need to do.

As always, any thoughts will be gratefully received xx

[once removed]

Right now though, I have bigger fish to fry than my own abandonment pain and making sense of all of this.

I feel that my anxiety now is really blocking my opportunity to do the deep-level work on myself that I clearly need to do.

thats pretty understandable. this is fresh, and the self focus part of Detaching is really stage 3 or 4. its good to work each stage.

I'm scared. And I mean scared.

in the aftermath of my breakup, i had a similar fear. i was worried she might try to destroy my family, or do something to hurt me emotionally. i remember shaking over it.

not to minimize your concerns, especially given that shes threatened you before, but it is likely that some of the adrenaline, and feeling out of sorts, can contribute to thoughts like these. do keep that in mind.

if she left, and if shes remained away since then, it is also likely that engaging in that kind of matter is not on her agenda. hard to say for sure. retreating is usually easier.

are the two of you in any contact, or likely to be?

[Newnewleaf]

Hi,

There is contact again, initiated by her. She has just spent three hours banging at my doors telling me that if I don't speak to her, she'll destroy me. What ensued was a two hour phone call (I would never again let her in my house when she's in that state) between us in which she repeatedly stated that she thinks I am having sex with my best friend. I am not. Denying it, being rational makes no difference. She is so, so angry about it. She feels that I have rejected her and that she is entitled to punish me.
There was one moment of genuine vulnerability between us where she said 'I just cannot do this anymore and I need someone else who can give me more' and I said 'I want this so much but I just cannot be discarded another time  because it causes me terrible pain and it has happened so often now and I know it will continue to happen'.
The problem I have is that if I agree that we need to end then she turns straight to rage because she hears rejection and then she threatens to destroy me again. She could indeed ruin a lot of my life. So I feel like I'm doing a dance along a tightrope line with a cross between Henry VIII and a toddler at the end.
 I realise that I have got myself into this mess. At this point the luxury of mourning the relationship isn't even an option because I am frantic with fear about when she'll turn up again and if she'll do the career-ending move (I get it's 'just a career' but I have poured my heart and soul over a long time to get where I am and it is a hugely important part of who I am).
I know there is no answer to this and nothing anyone else can do that will help. It does help to write it down though and know that people are reading it.
Again, any comments are welcome. Even just to help me feel a little less alone..

Xx

[once removed]

she said 'I just cannot do this anymore and I need someone else who can give me more' and I said 'I want this so much but I just cannot be discarded another time  because it causes me terrible pain and it has happened so often now and I know it will continue to happen'.
The problem I have is that if I agree that we need to end then she turns straight to rage because she hears rejection and then she threatens to destroy me again

youre agreeing that you need to end, but youre stating why from your perspective. she is far too consumed with herself and her wounds to hear that.

let her win.

even though shes the person that initiated the breakup, shes consumed with the need to be heard. odds are, if you can give her that, she runs out of juice.

its a tall order when you have your own wounds and likely want them acknowledged, but its a pragmatic move that will reduce the drama.

"im sorry i couldnt give you more. i really hope you find someone that can". that sort of thing.

[Newnewleaf]

Thank you. That is helpful and I know you are right.
I know I haven't heard the last of it and if this date she has next week doesn't work out, I'm sure I will be on the other end of that rage again.
I wish, more than I can say, that she could find ways to sit with the feelings underneath the rage and share those. I guess that either feels too vulnerable or she genuinely never learned. She had a brutal childhood and it doesn't sound like there was space ever to sit with vulnerability. I have held onto the story of her childhood trauma as a way to justify the abuse for far too long.
What I just cannot get over though, and I don't know if this resonates, is that even after being terrorised yesterday, I just feel desperately sad that she knows she can't/won't do the work on herself that could lead things to be different between us. The longing and grief I feel today is overwhelming. I've moved from terror to longing and desolation over one night of no-sleep (which never generates positive emotions, I know).
Man I miss 'the good', I  miss the love bombing, even if it was fake. The thought of her with another woman in a few days time feels like a knife in my heart..
She has told me that if she ever catches me with someone else she will 'slit their throat'. Bravado I'm sure..
How do I miss someone so much who has only ever been there for me about 10% of the time, and then, not really there for me?
I know, I know! Childhood. But.. wow, just wow..

X x

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you. That is helpful and I know you are right.
I know I haven't heard the last of it and if this date she has next week doesn't work out, I'm sure I will be on the other end of that rage again.
I wish, more than I can say, that she could find ways to sit with the feelings underneath the rage and share those. I guess that either feels too vulnerable or she genuinely never learned. She had a brutal childhood and it doesn't sound like there was space ever to sit with vulnerability. I have held onto the story of her childhood trauma as a way to justify the abuse for far too long.
What I just cannot get over though, and I don't know if this resonates, is that even after being terrorised yesterday, I just feel desperately sad that she knows she can't/won't do the work on herself that could lead things to be different between us. The longing and grief I feel today is overwhelming. I've moved from terror to longing and desolation over one night of no-sleep (which never generates positive emotions, I know).
Man I miss 'the good', I  miss the love bombing, even if it was fake. The thought of her with another woman in a few days time feels like a knife in my heart..
She has told me that if she ever catches me with someone else she will 'slit their throat'. Bravado I'm sure..
How do I miss someone so much who has only ever been there for me about 10% of the time, and then, not really there for me?
I know, I know! Childhood. But.. wow, just wow..

X x

Its harder to let go because certain needs you didn't know you needed were fulfilled and a certain void was filled that you didn't know you had, or subconsciously knew you had, but kept it guarded. Then you got opened up and got a taste and just like that it was ripped away. Yes it hurts. You are not alone though...please keep that in mind. It is not just a you thing. We all understand here and have dealt with something similar. If it offers any consolation your situation is unique to you, but it is not unique to us here. Make sense?

My friend, the best way to end the drama is for you to be firm and indifferent. If you communicate you do so clearly and allow no passive aggressive tones. Contrary to popular belief you do not have to be an $$hole to be firm and indifferent. The point is to remain even keeled and keep your composure and be okay with any given outcome that you do not have control over. Always Do YOU and let the universe handle the rest. So if she reacts, responds, and behaves with intense emotion you do not provide emotion back in return. Let her basically tire herself out. Remember you need to protect you. It doesn't mean that you do not care. Do not allow yourself to be manipulated by the outburst of suicidal ideology. The most important thing in that scenario is that you understand that if something happened in that scenario it is not your fault. So let yourself off the hook...it is okay to do so.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

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