Advice on starting a family

[Notwendy]

I am concerned about the ultimatum/divorce threats. Is this how she gets her way? Because if you are so afraid of divorce that you will give in to what she wants- when you feel hesitant about doing so- this is reinforcing to her to have this kind of power.

Understandable - you don't want a divorce. Most people don't want to go to that extent- it's a very difficult thing. However, if this is something your wife isn't serious about and is threatening as a way to get her way- then it's an empty threat. If she really doesn't want to be married to you, that is her decision.

I am not suggesting you get a divorce or want one. But excessive fear of one will make it difficult for you to hold your ground on a dispute with your wife.

If you weren't as fearful of her threats, you could respond with "Honey, the last thing I want to do is end our marriage but I can not respond with an immediate "yes" if I am uncertain. If you truly feel you can not wait any longer, I will not stand in the way of your attaining your wish, and so you do have that choice to dissolve the marriage. If you are willing to wait, you can do that too. I love you and want our marriage to succeed but understand that this is important to you".

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[Pook075]

Thanks notwendy,

I appreciate the honest perspective. It is something I should think about properly.

At the moment I am lost, confused and scared. I’m not able to think clearly. I don’t deal well when put in now or divorce situations, maybe something I should talk about with my own T. I feel like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

I agree with others that what you want is all that matters here.  Don't be pressured into something you're not comfortable with, and it is a topic that needs to be verbalized.

At the same time, I don't think you should fear having a baby with her if that's what you want.  It has to be a mutual decision though and you can't get there through manipulation and/or threats of divorce.  That's not fair to anyone.  I would personally reverse that question with a little manipulation of my own- what's more important to her, a happy marriage or just having a child? 

The reason you're getting such strong advice to stand your ground here is that so many of us on this site saw red flags before marriage or before having kids...and we all ignored them.  Don't get me wrong here, a baby is a blessing in any circumstance, but you do get to choose and it shouldn't be under intense pressure.  Hopefully your therapist can help her see that.

[Notwendy]

Yes, babies are wonderful and plenty of babies get here in less than ideal circumstances and they are still wonderful- but I think the issue is the relationship. The question about whether or not to have a baby is secondary - it raised concerns about the relationship.

The main concern is - is the relationship stable? With the wife frequently bringing up the topic of divorce- that makes the relationship feel unstable. Naurally, one would hesitate to have a baby and also be in the process of divorce.

There are others. A baby represents at least an 18 year commitment. Are both parents reliable? Can you go to work and trust that the baby is in good hands with their mother?

None of these are actually about the baby. It's about being able to trust the commitment and stability of the marriage. That's a relationship issue.

I want to zero in on the divorce threats/discussions. Are they serious threats or a means to get what she wants. The latter would work if you are so afraid of divorce that you will give in to any request. By doing so, you reinforce the behavior of threatening divorce. You guarantee it will happen again because it works for her.

Why would she do this? People use the relationship tools they have. If threatening works - then she will use it. If it didn't work, she'd have to use something else but so far, it works.

It raises your fears
It gets your attention
It engages you in long discussions and feelings and drama focused on her.
It gets you to agree on things you might not want to agree too.

BPD involves emotional immaturity. How does the playground bully get their way? By threats. "Better give me that toy or I'll beat you up" "If you don't play with me, I won't be your friend". What does a little kid say when they don't get their way? " I hate you. I won't be your friend" and 5 minutes later the two are playing again having forgotten the exchange.

And what do parents tell their child when another kid tries to get their attention in negative ways. "Ignore them". Because not responding doesn't reinforce the behavior. They won't do it if it doesn't work for them and the way they learn is by seeing they don't get a response from you.

BPD mother uses threats. They are scary. They worked to keep us in line and so they work for her. She often threatened divorce but didn't  follow through with it. This is one of her responses when she's upset. It's not rational. She says a lot of things - I think to see our reaction- but doesn't intend to follow through.

I don't know if your wife really means she wants to divorce or not. Some posters on this board have experienced their wife actually going through with it and for some, it's threats.

Divorce is a difficult, sad thing and it's understandable to not want it. However, if someone truly wants to leave their marriage- they will take steps to do it. Some posters' spouses have. I think if someone is truly intent on doing this- they have been thinking about it for a while and are set on doing it- and they do. If it's only a threat, the way to decrease the use of them is if they don't work. To do this, one can't be so afraid of the threat that they react and give in. That rewards it.

She's given you an ultimatum. Baby now or divorce. Here's where you lean on your core values. Put this in "I" terms. This is one possible reply. This is your marriage to decide on- so you don't have to say it but it's an idea.

"It's important to me that any baby of mine is born into a committed relationship. I understand that wanting a baby is an important fundamental wish for you but I can not have confidence that our relationship is stable when divorce is being considered"

[SaltyDawg]

I appreciate the honest perspective. It is something I should think about properly.

At the moment I am lost, confused and scared. I’m not able to think clearly. I don’t deal well when put in now or divorce situations, maybe something I should talk about with my own T. I feel like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

Wanderer11,

   You have a lot of insight into your feelings, and feeling caught between wanting to please your wife by trying to have a child and the consequences of those actions and that is commendable and you sound very conflicted.

   Ultimatums like this are never healthy in a relationship.  I feel that you aught to follow your own advice and talk in depth with your therapist, this is an excellent idea.

   Bringing a child into your relationship will be a lot more stressful and a lot more triggering not only for her, but you too - even though each of you will likely handle that added stress differently.

   If I were in your shoes (but I am not), knowing what I know now, I personally would wait; however, if I didn't know (which I didn't) about this kind of dynamic, I would likely have started a family, and I actually did start a family - I love my children; however, it also pains me what my children have been through with not only my wife, but my actions too.

   Right now you are between a 'rock and a hard place', and I believe listening to the collective wisdom and experience here combined with your therapist's guidance, you can use 'wise mind' (top of the tool menu on this page) to discern what is best for you.

   A reminder as you are going through all of this stress is to do some self-care whatever that might look like for you.

   Take care.

SD

[Cat Familiar]

Something else to factor into your consideration of having a child with a BPD partner is how your wife’s mental illness will affect any future children. There’s many accounts of people being emotionally wounded by a BPD parent on the Parents, Sibling Board. In addition, BPD like other personality disorders, can have a genetic component. All things to consider while contemplating your situation.

[Pook075]

Something else to factor into your consideration of having a child with a BPD partner is how your wife’s mental illness will affect any future children. There’s many accounts of people being emotionally wounded by a BPD parent on the Parents, Sibling Board. In addition, BPD like other personality disorders, can have a genetic component. All things to consider while contemplating your situation.

It's true, it was present on my wife's side of the family for 4 generations (my wife's grandfather, my wife's mom and her sister, my wife and her two brothers, one of my daughters).  That's not a reason to avoid parenthood, of course, but it does need to be considered.