Analyse and close the file.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

The scenario with her boyfriend flipping out of me last weekend has been stuck in my head and really pissing me off.

I am sorely tempted to send her a message politely asking for whatever showed up in the mail for me, my terrarium I've been trying to get back for months, and to tell her tomorrow her frothing neanderthal on a shorter leash.

It's stuck in my head

If I was in your situation, I'd handle this a lot differently.

I would personally call the boyfriend and ask him to meet you somewhere with your things in a public place.  I would be kind and polite, and thank him for his trouble.  If he swings on you or screams at you or anything else, then I'd show him empathy long enough for someone to call the police.  And I wouldn't bad-mouth your ex either, I'd simply make it known that you haven't been in contact and you have no idea why there's all this drama.

This does two things.

#1, it lets him see that you're a genuinely nice guy, which will make him question some of the things she's said or did.

#2, it will infuriate her since it breaks down some of her victim narrative. Since she's blocked though, he will get all her rage.

Brother, this isn't your fight and you shouldn't be fighting it any longer.  I feel sorry for the Neanderthal, he's clearly being manipulated and he has no clue what he's dealing with.  I would make it crystal clear in the guy's mind that you're not the enemy and you wish him luck since you have a pretty good idea how this will turn out.

[Pook075]

The scenario with her boyfriend flipping out of me last weekend has been stuck in my head and really pissing me off.

I am sorely tempted to send her a message politely asking for whatever showed up in the mail for me, my terrarium I've been trying to get back for months, and to tell her tomorrow her frothing neanderthal on a shorter leash.

It's stuck in my head

If I was in your situation, I'd handle this a lot differently.

I would personally call the boyfriend and ask him to meet you somewhere with your things in a public place.  I would be kind and polite, and thank him for his trouble.  If he swings on you or screams at you or anything else, then I'd show him empathy long enough for someone to call the police.  And I wouldn't bad-mouth your ex either, I'd simply make it known that you haven't been in contact and you have no idea why there's all this drama.

This does two things.

#1, it lets him see that you're a genuinely nice guy, which will make him question some of the things she's said or did.

#2, it will infuriate her since it breaks down some of her victim narrative. Since she's blocked though, he will get all her rage.

Brother, this isn't your fight and you shouldn't be fighting it any longer.  I feel sorry for the Neanderthal, he's clearly being manipulated and he has no clue what he's dealing with.  I would make it crystal clear in the guy's mind that you're not the enemy and you wish him luck since you have a pretty good idea how this will turn out.

[OKrunch]

it wont be, forever.

but if you do this, you are really just acting on your attachment, and keeping attached. it may result in greater drama.

if you genuinely want your belongings back, dont do it with bluster and drama. wait.

I agree, I'm leaving it alone.
I don't want to, but it's the better course of action.

I think part of the temptation IS drama, which I ultimately don't want.
I'm pissed about how Ive been portrayed and treated, what happened last week really got under my skin. It was extremely hard to stay as calm in my response as I did. If there's one thing I hate, it's a vulgar, stupid, toxic masculinity machismo jerk, and he is that in spades.

It's frustrating when I finally adhere to NC and put myself first, then I have to deal with this insecure, angry, offensive prick coming out of left field.

It feels like I'll never have peace of life and peace of mind.

[OKrunch]

If I was in your situation, I'd handle this a lot differently.

I would personally call the boyfriend and ask him to meet you somewhere with your things in a public place.  I would be kind and polite, and thank him for his trouble.  If he swings on you or screams at you or anything else, then I'd show him empathy long enough for someone to call the police.  And I wouldn't bad-mouth your ex either, I'd simply make it known that you haven't been in contact and you have no idea why there's all this drama.

This does two things.

#1, it lets him see that you're a genuinely nice guy, which will make him question some of the things she's said or did.

#2, it will infuriate her since it breaks down some of her victim narrative. Since she's blocked though, he will get all her rage.

Brother, this isn't your fight and you shouldn't be fighting it any longer.  I feel sorry for the Neanderthal, he's clearly being manipulated and he has no clue what he's dealing with.  I would make it crystal clear in the guy's mind that you're not the enemy and you wish him luck since you have a pretty good idea how this will turn out.

This is certainly a good way of handling it, and I am considering doing exactly what you've outlined.

My concern is that this dude has proven to be quite volitile, and I don't think he would have any reaction besides further rage.
I don't feel like dealing with that, as putting my own anger problems to bed was a pretty hard journey.
I don't want some drama fueled confrontation to ruin all that work.

On the other hand, your two points you make about what this would achive are both quite on point.

Lots to think about.

[Pook075]

My concern is that this dude has proven to be quite volitile, and I don't think he would have any reaction besides further rage.

Personally, I would defend my character and get my things.  And maybe that's the dumb thing to do, I really don't know.  I did that recently at a family birthday party- everyone was told what a horrible person I was, yet that's not what they saw.  I smiled, I was social, and I did my thing being kind to others.  Never said a single word against my wife though or tried to defend myself in any way. 

Yet, they saw who I was, saw how I interacted with my wife, and those narratives went right out the window.

This guys seriously hates you for things he's been told- things that are grossly exaggerated or flat-out lies.  It's completely up to you what comes next, but I'd get my kid's medical stuff.

[OKrunch]

Well, the confectioner of life has swooped in to put a crap icing on the dung cake that is my life of late haha.

My boss, who has been sick and in and out of the hospital since Christmas, texted me at 8pm last night and told me he is closing the business and fired me.
He has been dodging bills and not ordering product for months now, and I was already looking for work, but I was not expecting him to S**t-can me so abruptly.
Im really irritated because if he had put the steps in place to let us run the business when he was sick, things would have been fine. We had business, but he screwed up all the orders and seems to have grossly misallocated a lot of money.

I however still look at this as an oppotunity.
In the year after my divorce (2018) I ended up getting a new job after having been at the previous one for 9 years.
I got a new apartment, after a year of couch surfing with family and friends, and eventually a new car.
I completley reset my life in 2018.

I had lost my job 2 weeks before the FIRST breakup with EXPWBPD back in 2020, then got this current job during our split. Then after our 2nd Breakup in Sept of 2022, I was yet again effectivly homeless, did the 6 months in the camper, and then moved to this apartment in April of last year.
My car is about ready to be replaced.

So it looks like I will again get a full life reset, Job, Apartment, Car, and eventually relationship.

As much as I hate being unemployed, this WILL be an opportunity.
I interview well, and my job was very dead end. I was already very much planning on new things.
This just jump starts that process.
Lastly, that job is only a few miles from the house EXPWBPD and I shared, that she is now sharing with The Neandrethal.
This will only serve to add more distance between us, and eliminates a location where she could just show up and see me when she wanted to (I worked alone, the store was close, and she did exactly this during our last breakup, once she wanted to paint me white again, she started "popping in" to my work).
I deserve to make more than I was making, and even my Therpist had urged me to look for work.

This job was one of the last dead leaves to fall off of the Autumn Tree that was my previous life.
It leaves room for new spring growth, new opportunities and the possibility that I will finally be able to get ahead and buy a house for myself and my son.

one step back to leap miles ahead.
Excelsior.

[SaltyDawg]

OKrunch,

   That sounds so frustrating; however, I am glad to see you plan on making lemon-aid out of that lemon you were just handed regarding your job.  Perhaps, it is life's way of pushing you to move on.

   Take care with self-care.

SD

[OKrunch]

OKrunch,

   That sounds so frustrating; however, I am glad to see you plan on making lemon-aid out of that lemon you were just handed regarding your job.  Perhaps, it is life's way of pushing you to move on.

   Take care with self-care.

SD

I agree, something about that job (likely the proximity) always felt like it was tied to my ex. Its close by, she had stopped by unannounced on multiple occasions, and so on.

Something about getting canned from there feels like a tie to her has been severed, despite the fact the two are unrelated.

[Pook075]

As much as I hate being unemployed, this WILL be an opportunity.

Hey buddy.  I've been unemployed for almost three months now- similar situation where things just blew up and were outside my control.  I've steadily looked for work and the next opportunity hasn't arisen yet, but I'm staying positive knowing that good things are coming. 

It's easy to be down in the moment but like you, this is an opportunity and I'm very excited for the next chapter of my life.

Good things are coming buddy, lots and lots of good things!  I'm glad you have the right mindset!

[OKrunch]

My sons new favorite show has taught me to Go Beyond, Plus Ultra.

Spring is dawining and I am dead set on making 2024 a banger.

[OKrunch]

Typed out a message to The Guy, after Pooks advice. Havent sent it yet.

"I wanted to reach out and clear the air,
You seem to be under the impression that I've been trying to get in touch or continue contact. I haven't since August, and have zero desire to do so now.

Let me make this abundantly clear, I do not want what you have, and I wouldn't want what you have even if I was single. That chapter is far past over dude.

The letter I sent in November was only an attempt to get my terrarium back, and in so far as whatever mail showed up a few weeks ago I have no idea what that is.
Perhaps you and I could work together facilitate the return of my terrarium jug.
I don't understand why you were so hostile and vulgar with me when all I was trying to do was get one of my belongings back. I don't know you, I don't want to fight with you and I don't want to have beef with you, but I don't think it's correct or fair for you to spit venom at me like that, when you don't know me or my side of the story.

I no longer work in ******, so let me know if there's any way you can think of to return my terrarium.
Thanks."


Any thoughts on revision before I send it?

[once removed]

what is the point?

to get your terrarium back?

to defend yourself?

to send a message to your ex?

[OKrunch]

what is the point?

to get your terrarium back? - YES, it has sentimental value to my son and I. I have asked her for it back more than once. Always ignored. I always suspected she was holding on to it for a reason to get in touch down the line.

to defend yourself? - No, couldn't give a damn what either of them think.

to send a message to your ex? - 1000% No, I don't want to interact with her.

Still haven't sent the message.

[once removed]

to get your terrarium back? - YES

to defend yourself? - No, couldn't give a damn what either of them think.

to send a message to your ex? - 1000% No, I don't want to interact with her.

if your goal is solely to get your terrarium back, dont send such a letter.

and dont expect to achieve it through her ex, the guy you think is a neanderthal 

i would encourage you not to expect to recover the terrarium at all. consider whether it is, in part, a reason for you to get in touch, or hold on in some small way, and whether it is possible to cut that loss.

if not, i would encourage you to wait until the drama has blown over. this letter would fan it.

[OKrunch]

if your goal is solely to get your terrarium back, dont send such a letter.

and dont expect to achieve it through her ex, the guy you think is a neanderthal 

i would encourage you not to expect to recover the terrarium at all. consider whether it is, in part, a reason for you to get in touch, or hold on in some small way, and whether it is possible to cut that loss.

if not, i would encourage you to wait until the drama has blown over. this letter would fan it.

I think its 80% i want my item back, and 20% to get my last word in with this vulgar ape.
So, even if it is 1% "self serving" i think, you are right, and It would only serve to cause more BS.

the sleeping dog shall lay.

[Pook075]

Typed out a message to The Guy, after Pooks advice. Havent sent it yet.

"I wanted to reach out and clear the air,
You seem to be under the impression that I've been trying to get in touch or continue contact. I haven't since August, and have zero desire to do so now.

Let me make this abundantly clear, I do not want what you have, and I wouldn't want what you have even if I was single. That chapter is far past over dude.

The letter I sent in November was only an attempt to get my terrarium back, and in so far as whatever mail showed up a few weeks ago I have no idea what that is.
Perhaps you and I could work together facilitate the return of my terrarium jug.
I don't understand why you were so hostile and vulgar with me when all I was trying to do was get one of my belongings back. I don't know you, I don't want to fight with you and I don't want to have beef with you, but I don't think it's correct or fair for you to spit venom at me like that, when you don't know me or my side of the story.

I no longer work in ******, so let me know if there's any way you can think of to return my terrarium.
Thanks."


Any thoughts on revision before I send it?

I wouldn't send the letter either- it's too passive aggressive and stoke the flame.

I mentioned meeting in person to de-escalate if you felt the situation was volatile, plus you mentioned that the package was probably something medical for your kid (IE, worth making contact).  I wouldn't do it if the motivations were outside of that though.

[OKrunch]

I wouldn't send the letter either- it's too passive aggressive and stoke the flame.

I mentioned meeting in person to de-escalate if you felt the situation was volatile, plus you mentioned that the package was probably something medical for your kid (IE, worth making contact).  I wouldn't do it if the motivations were outside of that though.

I never said it was medical?

[Pook075]

I never said it was medical?

I'll go back and read- I could have sworn you said something about taking your kid to a doctor and maybe they sent the package to the address on file.  Sorry if I goofed that up.

[Pook075]

I never said it was medical?

Aah, it was at-home COVID tests.  So it's medical but nothing urgent.  My bad.

[OKrunch]

Ahhh yes.

The Dr. had those sent over, and had my old address on file.

I think a lot of emotions got roiled up with the loss of my job sunday night.
It immediatley made me feel small and "less than"

I lost a job just prior to the first breakup with EX, and my best friend said he thought her getting a new job prior to our 2nd breakup "Skewed my value in her eyes"
So, think the loss of my recent job has givien me almost a sort of Pavlov response to immediatley feel worthless.

Its dredging up a lot of raw feelings.

[OKrunch]

Interviews have gone well so far, more job hunting to go. I believe I'll get some offers next week in fact.

Had to file a B.o.L complain vs ex employer because he isn't giving me my last pay.
So, that's annoying.

Otherwise, great day today. The weather here was stellar. I helped the Grandparents (in their 80's) do some yard work.

Had a very big "spidey sense" / gut feeling reaction yesterday out of the blue, not sure what that was all about.

Lastly, I realized today it's getting harder to "see" her face in my mind. When I do have random memories or intrusive thoughts, the image of her memory in my head is getting foggy, if that makes sense.
I have mixed feelings about this.
Just an odd thing I happened to notice today.

I will say that the intrusive thoughts have definitley decreased since getting S-canned from work.
Not sure if its because my mind is occupied looking for solutions, or if there was some link in my subconscious connecting her and that job.
Anyway, it's been a heck of a crazy week in Krunch-Land, but honestly I feel good.

[SaltyDawg]

Interviews have gone well so far, more job hunting to go. I believe I'll get some offers next week in fact.

Had to file a B.o.L complain vs ex employer because he isn't giving me my last pay.
So, that's annoying.

Otherwise, great day today. The weather here was stellar. I helped the Grandparents (in their 80's) do some yard work.

Had a very big "spidey sense" / gut feeling reaction yesterday out of the blue, not sure what that was all about.

Lastly, I realized today it's getting harder to "see" her face in my mind. When I do have random memories or intrusive thoughts, the image of her memory in my head is getting foggy, if that makes sense.
I have mixed feelings about this.
Just an odd thing I happened to notice today.

I will say that the intrusive thoughts have definitley decreased since getting S-canned from work.
Not sure if its because my mind is occupied looking for solutions, or if there was some link in my subconscious connecting her and that job.
Anyway, it's been a heck of a crazy week in Krunch-Land, but honestly I feel good.

Krunch,

   It sounds like you are recovering nicely.  Keep up the good work.  I am cheering you on your road to recovery.

   Continue to take care with self-care.

SD

[OKrunch]

Wish it felt that way, thanks SD

[Pook075]

Anyway, it's been a heck of a crazy week in Krunch-Land, but honestly I feel good.

You'll land on your feet soon enough...I am in a similar situation and it's definitely not time to panic.  Just keep on keeping on and everything will work out as intended.

[OKrunch]

You'll land on your feet soon enough...I am in a similar situation and it's definitely not time to panic.  Just keep on keeping on and everything will work out as intended.

I definitley agree, I'm not even really upset about having been fired, I'll get a new job.

Honestly the worst things right now are  how lonely and bored I have been.
Both of these I think, will abate when the season turns.
I'm just afraid of what will happen to my mental state if things continue to be sucky and lonely through this coming summer.
That might be too much.
That said, I have some good prospects on the horizon.

Lots of memories and muddled feelings rolling around today, which I could do with less of.

[SaltyDawg]

Wish it felt that way, thanks SD

Krunch,

   I know it doesn't 'feel' that way; however, based on what you have described and shared with the board, I can definitely see a lot of recovery in you.  I feel that you catastrophize your situation, and make it feel a lot worse than it actually is - this is only natural - perhaps reach out to your therapist to discuss this.  I felt compelled to let you know you are doing much better than you think and feel you are, as I too beat myself up on these kinds of things.

   I see that you are having a harder time ruminating on your ex - this is a good thing as this shows you are moving on from her.

   I see that you are doing the right things about your job you were just let go on, with filing to get the pay you are owed, and your outlook on finding a new job.  You are also able to process the link between your ex and the job you were just let go from as well, putting further distance there - this too is a good thing.

   In any event, please take care of yourself with self-care.

SD

[OKrunch]

Krunch,

   I know it doesn't 'feel' that way; however, based on what you have described and shared with the board, I can definitely see a lot of recovery in you.  I feel that you catastrophize your situation, and make it feel a lot worse than it actually is - this is only natural - perhaps reach out to your therapist to discuss this.  I felt compelled to let you know you are doing much better than you think and feel you are, as I too beat myself up on these kinds of things.

   I see that you are having a harder time ruminating on your ex - this is a good thing as this shows you are moving on from her.

   I see that you are doing the right things about your job you were just let go on, with filing to get the pay you are owed, and your outlook on finding a new job.  You are also able to process the link between your ex and the job you were just let go from as well, putting further distance there - this too is a good thing.

   In any event, please take care of yourself with self-care.

SD

I think the biggest thing that I have noticed I struggle with in the long term is feeling "Less Than".
The repeated rejection after recycle, coupled with the triangulations over the years, and how much I, as a hopeless romantic type, put stock in the plans she and I had made for the future.
I think that her ability to repeatedly and so easily leave those dreams and plans behind, not to mention our "love" just makes me feel worth less (not worthless).
I can blame jealousy, bitterness, and pain on a lot of the feelings, but at the end of the day its that Less Than that is at the core of all of those. My initial response is to blame myself, it requires dedicated thought and effort to see the situation for what it actually was, rather than how my mind views it through the lense of a trauma bond.

Even though it doesn't always immediatley cure the painful memories, I often remind myself that although i still believe it to be a subcncious behavior pattern, she manufactured the feelings of loss, jealousy and me feeling "Less than".
It was done to break me down, and justify her narrative. As always, a defense mechanism.
I remind myself that the person who manufactured these feelings and scenarios, is herself quite hurt, lost and damaged.
I also remind myself despite what my mind will often tell me, or what is publicaly displayed, that she is not any different, and someone else is now dealing with these same subconcious behaviors.

Lonliness has been a real struggle for me these past few months, and its obviously a hell of a lot easier to miss something you had, than it is to envision something that has yet come to pass.

I thought, after a terribly painful (despite, in hindsight being far easier and strightforward) divorce, that I had finally found the person who really loved ME FOR ME. I know my marraige was pretty superficial, but it mattered a lot at the time.
Then, I met her. I thought my divorce had been the training I needed to make this one work, I gave it my all.
I really really thought I was finally home, I finally found my true person, and I loved her with a power I had not known I posessed. Only to have it turn into a far more manipulative, toxic, insidious relationship that made the damage done in my divorce look like a mere scrapped knee.

I often get frustrated with myself for my slow timeline of healing.
It's hard to not get mad at myself when I think of the fact that we had our SECOND breakup, 16 months ago, and yet Here I still am, journaling and healing from it.
Then I think, that if it's taken me this long to heal, this long to dissect and digest it all, that just tells me how devoted, dedicated, faithful and genuine the love I had for this woman was.
That was MINE, and no amount of inflicted pain, or lingering wound can take that away from me.
My capacity for love is so huge, and I know I am a good man, a smart man, A good father, and a loyal partner.

I may have lost the house, the dogs, the stepdaughter, the woman I thought I knew and trusted, and she may feel no regret for the loss of any of those things.
So despite the one FEELING the loss (still, i know *rolls eyes*), I know in the end she is the one who lost out.

I discovered the person I thought I knew and loved was not what I thought, and my dedication and vulnerability allowed this to cut me deeper than I could have ever imagined.

She learned nothing, and lost much, despite not knowing it.

[OKrunch]

I feel that you catastrophize your situation, and make it feel a lot worse than it actually is - this is only natural - perhaps reach out to your therapist to discuss this. 

I have discussed this with her, I am still dissecting the reasons why the loss of a relationship is such a catstrophic blow to me.
Or at least certain relationships.

I know I place far too much value on my relationship status, and I have an unhealthy "desired to be loved and wanted".
When I have it in my life, it makes me feel like a billion dollars. It is why Love Bombing is so very effective on me.
I knew what Love Bombing was going into my relationship with her, but it still totally got me anyway.

I had a pretty ideal childhood, and still have a good relationship with my parents. So I am not sure where this stems from, it has been the nagging unfound crux of my healing.

[OKrunch]

And yet I still wake almost every day, wondering "Will this be the day she shows back up?" "Could I handle it if she did?"

Ive mentioned this before, but its like she so deeply engrained the idea that she would always come back so hard into my mind that each day it doesn't happen, it's like a thread is pulled tighter, and one day itll snap.

I have no reason to believe that she will reach out ever again, for any reason, but yet my mind still plans and prepares for it daily.

The Gut Feelings don't help.

This never ending process makes me feel crazy.

[OKrunch]

The text interaction i had with her BF is spending too much time in my headspace.
It has caused me to really think a lot about triangulation vs. object impermenance.

If we are "out of sight out of mind" when painted black, why then are we also smeared / used as the villain narrative in the triangulation of a new partner?

The amount of personal attacks he had in his texts obviously indicated that I was or at least had been a pretty detailed topic of conversation between the two of them, and he, despite never meeting me, had a totally venemous view of me (not that I care, merely an observation).

So if we become this dusty box stored in the back of their mind, and we are out of sight out of mind like that, more so when they are bathing in limerence, How then do we even become a topic of conversation to be smeared in the first place.

If the "placing of the box in the closet" is to aliveate feelings like shame and anger, why whould a BPD, pull the box out of the closet, get mad at its contents again, just to tell a new person how awful the contents of said box is?

Worth mentioning she definitley did this with me in the beggining of our relationship, and always had a burning hatred of my ex wife.

Wondering what you all had for experiences in this regard.
I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it.

[Pook075]

If we are "out of sight out of mind" when painted black, why then are we also smeared / used as the villain narrative in the triangulation of a new partner?

Think about it for a moment- she had no reason to mention you at all to that guy.  But she did.  Why?  I know the answer but you need to realize this for yourself to really heal and move on from this.

Let me ask a different way, and this may bring things full circle.  When you first got together with her, what did she tell you about her ex?  Or her daughter's dad?  Think through this- how much did you ask about versus how much did she freely volunteer? 

And looking back, do you now think everything she said to you about the ex was 100% true and objective?

There's a pattern here brother, and you laid this out almost a year ago in your original thread.  I remember it clearly because I read 20+ pages at once catching up with your journey. 

Why is she bad-mouthing you...just like she badmouthed her ex when you started dating her?

Really think this through because you need to find this answer on your own.