Need support for my recent break up

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I recently got out of a relationship with my girlfriend of coming up to a year who struggles from childhood neglect BPD and need some help to move forward after this has happened.

She and i were very close and lives revolved around each other, she started to act spiteful and would take stresses from her days out on me until i got to a point where i snapped and told her it was not acceptable anymore, this was all during a build up to a holiday that we had planned, i always made sure that she had me as a support system when she felt over whelmed but over time started to act more and more bitter and wouldn't come to me for help. We went away on holiday and everything was good with minimal hiccups, as soon as we got home the week following, everything started to deteriorate. She got invited out with a group of work friends to go clubbing, knowing that it made me uncomfortable and made a point to tell me she doesnt care about how i feel she will always do whatever she wants after i made it known i didnt like the idea. This resulted in me making her choose between clubbing and me which she decided to choose clubbing and we broke up.

The following 4 weeks i was trying to fix things as we both made a rash decision. We spoke daily and she would say how much she cared about me while seeking attention from other boys and going to their houses. This has ultimatly ended in her getting involved with one of the boys from her work who she is now seeing in place of me. She has made a point to tell me that she is not in a relationship with him but has told me they are sleeping together. None of her actions match up with what she tells me. She tells me how much she loves and cares for me while treating me so poorly, but then she tells me she is done with us and doesnt want me around anymore while refusing to let me go with random reminicent texts about us/the past.

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

Any advice for what i should do?

[Bxrrows]

I recently got out of a relationship with my girlfriend of coming up to a year who struggles from childhood neglect BPD and need some help to move forward after this has happened.

She and i were very close and lives revolved around each other, she started to act spiteful and would take stresses from her days out on me until i got to a point where i snapped and told her it was not acceptable anymore, this was all during a build up to a holiday that we had planned, i always made sure that she had me as a support system when she felt over whelmed but over time started to act more and more bitter and wouldn't come to me for help. We went away on holiday and everything was good with minimal hiccups, as soon as we got home the week following, everything started to deteriorate. She got invited out with a group of work friends to go clubbing, knowing that it made me uncomfortable and made a point to tell me she doesnt care about how i feel she will always do whatever she wants after i made it known i didnt like the idea. This resulted in me making her choose between clubbing and me which she decided to choose clubbing and we broke up.

The following 4 weeks i was trying to fix things as we both made a rash decision. We spoke daily and she would say how much she cared about me while seeking attention from other boys and going to their houses. This has ultimatly ended in her getting involved with one of the boys from her work who she is now seeing in place of me. She has made a point to tell me that she is not in a relationship with him but has told me they are sleeping together. None of her actions match up with what she tells me. She tells me how much she loves and cares for me while treating me so poorly, but then she tells me she is done with us and doesnt want me around anymore while refusing to let me go with random reminicent texts about us/the past.

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

Any advice for what i should do?

[kells76]

Hi Bxrrows and welcome -- glad you found us 

The end of a relationship with a pwBPD (person with BPD) can be confusing and feel really murky and unstable, sometimes more so than the end of a "normal" relationship.

I'm definitely seeing the mixed messages from her in what you've posted. That can only add to the confusion -- she didn't choose you, but then she spoke with you daily, but then she was seeing other people, but they weren't real relationships, but... but... but...

Not easy stuff; and so painful.

What you brought up here sounds important:

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

-The urge to help a partner is a big deal. Hypothetically, if you could set aside that feeling of "I have to help her -- she needs my help", what would you think about the relationship?

-Am I reading correctly that she is the one not initiating contact with you, and you are still reaching out and contacting her occasionally? Did I get that right?

-When you communicated to her that you're worth more than how she's treating you, what would you say you wanted her to know? What I mean is -- when you told her that, was it a way of telling her that you were done with the relationship? Was it to hopefully get her to treat you better? Or was it something else?

Fill us in -- we're here to listen.

-kells76

[Bxrrows]

Hi Kells,

Thanks for taking the time to help give me some clarity.

We broke up the day that she decided that going clubbing was what she wanted to do, after she got home that night she messaged me to tell me she was safe and that she loved me. In my eyes she was trying to do whatever she wanted regardless of how i feel and then after the come down happened she decided that she wanted to get in touch with me.

Since that day we spoke everyday about things and new issues came to light that developed since the day of the break up. For example she would post stories i was blocked from to gain attention and sympathy from other boys for that validation she was no longer getting from myself. She also had lied to me about her location forgetting we had life360 and was at a guys house who she told me was a 40 year old man who was like a father figure to her which i found very sketchy and even untrue (I am 24M and she is 22F for reference).

Developing from there i no longer became a priority, she would tell me no matter what happens she is always there for me but whenever i had a rough night and called, she was always busy with her new friends or had an excuse to not answer. I could go on and on with the small deatils about how she started to distance herself more and more but she ultimatly made a point to tell me how much she cares about me even though her actions did not match.

Everything from the club to the basic disrespect i could have forgiven if she put the effort in, but fast forward 3 weeks of back and forth with not much movement on either side, i called her just to tell her i loved her and was met with no answer, the very next day she sends me a message telling me shes sorry im having a rough time and she cares about me a lot but i need to move on and heal, also that shes is sort of seeing someone else now and its not fair on me. Only finding out that night he stayed at her place and slept with her so i guess that was too much for her conscience to bear and ended up telling me about her seeing someone else in the most brief way possible to negate the gravity of how close they are.

Since then i gave her hell over the phone about it and we ended up having no contact for 5 days until 2 nights ago she ended up calling me when she got up in the night to tell me that she felt bad about everything and i was not the most understanding as i gave her an earful about how low/neglected everything has made me feel.

What i think about the relationship is that she litterally gave me everything, i would want nothing more then for us to get back together and try again but i know she would not have the energy nor feelings i imagine to make all her wrongs a right and i feel like i have too much self respect to let someone treat me this poorly and let them come back into my life with open arms. She also told me that she is no longer in love with me.

I guess my goal with the whole "im worth more" angle was for her to realise that of course im worth more then this and she should buck her ideas up and grovel to win me back. The only issue is that she has this new guy around that seems to be filling the void of happiness that i left and she doesnt really have much reason to go through that whole groveling process if she has a new supply of attention.

Im really stuck in the sense that i love and care about her more then anything and i can tell she is showing glimpses of being remorseful for whats happened but none of her actions towards me match any of that caring side that i know is in there.

Any more questions you have about specifics i am more then happy to share to give a better picture of the situation.

Bxrrows

[Bxrrows]

Fill us in -- we're here to listen.

-kells76

Update -  just noticed today my number has been unblocked which i did not anticipate

[AlbertaCowboy]

I recently got out of a relationship with my girlfriend of coming up to a year who struggles from childhood neglect BPD and need some help to move forward after this has happened.

She and i were very close and lives revolved around each other, she started to act spiteful and would take stresses from her days out on me until i got to a point where i snapped and told her it was not acceptable anymore, this was all during a build up to a holiday that we had planned, i always made sure that she had me as a support system when she felt over whelmed but over time started to act more and more bitter and wouldn't come to me for help. We went away on holiday and everything was good with minimal hiccups, as soon as we got home the week following, everything started to deteriorate. She got invited out with a group of work friends to go clubbing, knowing that it made me uncomfortable and made a point to tell me she doesnt care about how i feel she will always do whatever she wants after i made it known i didnt like the idea. This resulted in me making her choose between clubbing and me which she decided to choose clubbing and we broke up.

The following 4 weeks i was trying to fix things as we both made a rash decision. We spoke daily and she would say how much she cared about me while seeking attention from other boys and going to their houses. This has ultimatly ended in her getting involved with one of the boys from her work who she is now seeing in place of me. She has made a point to tell me that she is not in a relationship with him but has told me they are sleeping together. None of her actions match up with what she tells me. She tells me how much she loves and cares for me while treating me so poorly, but then she tells me she is done with us and doesnt want me around anymore while refusing to let me go with random reminicent texts about us/the past.

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

Any advice for what i should do?

I would move on, if you are having problems with your own mental health.  It just seems like an unhealthy and toxic relationship. You got to care for yourself, and she has to respect you.  If she does not, and continues to put you second in her life, I would go my own way, and eventually you will find a woman who respects you more.

[Bxrrows]

I would move on, if you are having problems with your own mental health.  It just seems like an unhealthy and toxic relationship. You got to care for yourself, and she has to respect you.  If she does not, and continues to put you second in her life, I would go my own way, and eventually you will find a woman who respects you more.

Thats how im moving forward with things at the moment. After any break up things are tough but no other relationship has felt this heavy after it ended, i guess thats just the intencity of BPD relationships. My main issue is moving forward and accepting everything which is why i sought advice from this forum in the first place.

I know i have done everything in my power to try and find a way back for us both but she seems preoccupied with her new life and the excitement from her new lover. I keep having a glimpse of hope that she will reach back out to me but i imagine she does not have the capcity to understand how her actions have effected me. For her it feels out of sight out of mind and i need to find a way to be at peace and find a way forward.

[kells76]

Hi Bxrrows;

Something I sometimes read here on the boards is members having a desire that "if s/he would reach out and apologize and promise it wouldn't happen again and would get help, then I'd definitely get back in the relationship with him/her."

Is part of you in that space? Or are you more in a "no matter what she says/does, I've decided I'm done" space?

There's no right or wrong answer, and, immediately after a breakup, it makes sense that maybe there's "one foot on each side".

I'm asking to get a better feel for the dynamic, because a position of "no matter what she says/does, I'm done, and I need to grieve work through it" is different from "if she would just _____________, then I would _______________", just in terms of feedback and advice.

...

Was this your first major serious relationship? Hers?

[Bxrrows]

Hi Bxrrows;

Something I sometimes read here on the boards is members having a desire that "if s/he would reach out and apologize and promise it wouldn't happen again and would get help, then I'd definitely get back in the relationship with him/her."

Is part of you in that space? Or are you more in a "no matter what she says/does, I've decided I'm done" space?

There's no right or wrong answer, and, immediately after a breakup, it makes sense that maybe there's "one foot on each side".

I'm asking to get a better feel for the dynamic, because a position of "no matter what she says/does, I'm done, and I need to grieve work through it" is different from "if she would just _____________, then I would _______________", just in terms of feedback and advice.

...

Was this your first major serious relationship? Hers?

I would be open to trying again but feel like its really out of my hands.

Until Monday this week i have done everything in my power to try and fix things, since we broke up last month.

Regardless of our original issues, the biggest factor for me now is that she has a new guy in place of me. I feel that I would like to try things again but i would be asking for more then she would be willing to do for me especially considering the original reason we had issues from my POV was down to lack of respect/effort. I would need her to put all her eggs back into my basket and block this new boy, along with the other boys she was attention seeking from, while also making an active effort to work on controlling her BPD with me by talking or seeking medical help.

This is my 2nd relationship that would have been our year together next month. I previously had an abusive relationship over 3 years with a girl who also had lots of problems but in a very different way (im a fixer so i generally attract broken people who i feel like i can help). She was previously in a 4 year on and off unstable relationship with someone who had his own mental situation as well. I am 2nd boyfriend but the only one that has no previous history of mental illness excluding some mild social anxiety.

Another nugget of information is that she owes me 1k from our holiday last month, so over the next 2-3 months we will have some form of contact about that subject in which i was also wondering how to handle that. Right now we are in no contact and im in a place where any contact will be initiated by her so i  was curious on how to play things when we do speak.

So in summary as a TLDR, im open to trying again if she agrees to certain boundries but right now i am focusing on myself and distractions until i hear something from her. 2nd relationship for us each, both coming from pervious abusive relationships.

Any other questions do let me know

[SaltyDawg]

Another nugget of information is that she owes me 1k from our holiday last month, so over the next 2-3 months we will have some form of contact about that subject in which i was also wondering how to handle that. Right now we are in no contact and im in a place where any contact will be initiated by her so i  was curious on how to play things when we do speak.

Bxrrows,

   You indicated she is with another boy.  I think her motivations are clear.

   When I left an uBPD/uNPD-exgf, she owed me quite a bit more than '1k'.  At the time I could afford the 'loss', in order not to deal with her again, as I wanted the no contact, as she tried to cheat on me, not once, but twice.  So, in essence, I 'cut my losses and ran' and chalked up the experience as a learning experience.

   I got out of the fire, into the frying pan, only to get burned 2 decades later inside of that frying pan when it warmed up.  It doesn't get any better staying around to fix the situation.

   My advice, if you can afford it, get an individual therapist to help you sort out your feelings.  If you cannot, I made a series of recommendations that I have paraphrased here...

   Welcome to BPD Family.  Since you asked for advice...

Advice: 

#1 - Do self-care.  You need to 'fill your cup' first, before you can help others.  It is kind of like the announcements to put your own oxygen mask on first when flying before helping the person next to you with theirs.  You need to have enough energy for both yourself and any you have left over can go for caring for him.


#2 - Don't do this alone.  Get help, professional therapists cost money, it is well worth the copay if you have insurance.  If you don't have the ability to pay, I have a list of many free/low cost resources.

If you are looking for BPD specific help, you have this website, BPD family, you can post and ask questions 24/7 here - in my humble opinion this is by far the best resource.  NEABPD has also been mentioned, they have a long wait list, but they have a lot of videos.  I am a strong believer in self-help resources - like youtube, books, etc.

If you are looking for weekly Zoom meetings specific to BPD, sponsored (but not attended) by Randi Kreger, author of "Stop Walking on Eggshells" series of books at https://groups.io/g/MovingForward - look towards the bottom of that page for the list of Zoom meetings, some are general, others are specific.

If you think you are co-dependent, according to Google 90% of us are, CoDA can be helpful too (CoDA.org), it is not BPD specific.

NAMI has a group is for parents and/or partners (about 3/4 parents) of children with mental health disorders including BPD and other severe mental health issues which share a lot of the same challenges of care for a child who refuses your care, or they don't have the resources to care for them.  The group I attend is 'in person' which I find is more authentic than a Zoom meeting or posting messages.


#3 Self-help books:  These two are the best starter books:

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul T. T. Mason MS & Randi Kreger (3rd Edition) - the 3rd edition as it has an excellent assessment tool in it.

Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life by Margalis Fjelstad - this one has some excellent tools in managing a pwBPD


#4 Set strong boundaries on not accepting bad behaviours, especially rages - the "Stop Caretaking" book has some excellent tools for this.  Also, https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0 is a series of workshops to help you out as well.


#5 - Since he is 'self-diagnosed' strongly persuade him to go to his own individual therapy to get this addressed.  DBT is considered the 'gold standard'; however, any therapy is generally better than no therapy.  Ideally it should be IOP - Intensive OutPatient, where he does one weekly session with an individual therapist, and one group session with other BPD patients (a word of caution, if he has never been in a mental facility, he can pick up worse behaviors by comparing his behaviors to theirs).


#6  Ask questions, get strategies from myself and others who have had similar experiences to your own, figure out what works, and use that.


Take care with self-care.

SD

Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

Bxrrows,

   You indicated she is with another boy.  I think her motivations are clear.

   When I left an uBPD/uNPD-exgf, she owed me quite a bit more than '1k'.  At the time I could afford the 'loss', in order not to deal with her again, as I wanted the no contact, as she tried to cheat on me, not once, but twice.  So, in essence, I 'cut my losses and ran' and chalked up the experience as a learning experience.

   I got out of the fire, into the frying pan, only to get burned 2 decades later inside of that frying pan when it warmed up.  It doesn't get any better staying around to fix the situation.

   My advice, if you can afford it, get an individual therapist to help you sort out your feelings.  If you cannot, I made a series of recommendations that I have paraphrased here...

Take care.

SD

Thank you for your reply and insight. While therapy at the moment seems a bit financially far for me, the books i will be looking into.

Since finding this website I have found my peace with whats happened in terms of the self sabotage and her abilty to move on so quickly, while it still hurts its nice being able to accept that im not to blame for why things broke down. I understand now that the new guy in her life is nothing more then a way for her to feel some self worth as she needs that constant affirmation to feel complete within herself. She is able to compartmentalise her negative feelings and push them down. I just hope someday the mist will disapear in her mind so she will see things for how they are and will understand how hard shes messed up by losing me. But again their mind is an enigma so its more wishful thinking over if that would ever happen.

I have a simular outlook to you as i have now completed my first week of no contact, i know now that she is no longer my problem and i cannot help someone who doesn't want help.

I can afford the lose as i value my mental health more then the money itself, my personal issue around the money is that she made a point that she wants to pay it all back and her family have also told me about setting up a payment plan for the start of next year. My thought now is how do i play the inevitable text/call about the money?....Am i blunt and dismissive?.... Do i let her lead the conversation and be open to talking about things if she mentions anything? Any advice on the best course of action to take?

Bxrrows

[kells76]

Hi Bxrrows,

I can afford the lose as i value my mental health more then the money itself, my personal issue around the money is that she made a point that she wants to pay it all back and her family have also told me about setting up a payment plan for the start of next year. My thought now is how do i play the inevitable text/call about the money?....Am i blunt and dismissive?.... Do i let her lead the conversation and be open to talking about things if she mentions anything? Any advice on the best course of action to take?

First thought on the money is to assume she'll pay back zero (despite what anyone says), and treat any part of repayment as icing on the cake.

In terms of a course of action, you're in the driver's seat here, so how it goes depends on what you want and who you want to be.

Am i blunt and dismissive?

From my perspective, an answer to that question would depend on who you want to be, and how you want to act, and how to do that with integrity.

If you want to look back on this part of your life and say "no matter what, I was the kind of person who treated someone with a serious mental illness with courtesy and respect", then that will probably guide your approach.

If by "blunt and dismissive" you're meaning more "firm and neutral", then that could be in line with acting with integrity, courtesy, and respect. You might also be interested in learning more about the "BIFF" communication approach -- it stands for Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm, and it's a framework for best practices for communicating (phone calls, texts, emails, etc) with a pwBPD. My H and I have found it really helpful for communicating with his kids' mom (who has many BPD type traits).

BIFF helps me be the person I want to be, and not stoop to her level by trying to "teach her a lesson", be rude, prove my points, or do anything that distracts focus away from respectful, problem-solving communication. When she emails us stuff like "I'll be out of town and need you to watch the kids, but the kids told me they don't want to spend time with you", it's tempting to prove her wrong, point out her rudeness, be really hurt/take it personally, etc. BIFF helps us live out our values instead of getting drawn into conflict/"who's right/who's wrong".

When you mention this:

Do i let her lead the conversation and be open to talking about things if she mentions anything?

what "things" are you thinking she may mention -- i.e., money things, relationship things...?

Again, this is something where you're in the driver's seat in terms of how much -- if at all -- you interact with any topic she brings up. She can bring up anything at all, and you have the power to decide ahead of time if you're open to that conversation.

Would you want to talk about the relationship, if you've already decided to be done?

Lots of questions! I'll pause there to hear back from you.

[SaltyDawg]

I can afford the lose as i value my mental health more then the money itself, my personal issue around the money is that she made a point that she wants to pay it all back and her family have also told me about setting up a payment plan for the start of next year. My thought now is how do i play the inevitable text/call about the money?....Am i blunt and dismissive?.... Do i let her lead the conversation and be open to talking about things if she mentions anything? Any advice on the best course of action to take?

Bxrrows,

I agree with Kells on this, don't expect repayment.  Any money you get back will be 'gravy' or 'icing' as Kells puts it.  If she does engage you, she might use it as a 'lure' to get you back if and when she pays you back as a 'recycle' attempt - how you handle that is up to you - follow your 'gut' on this.

If you don't want to have a relationship, keep your communication B.I.F.F. - Brief, Informational, Factual & Friendly.  An example communication could be something like "Thank you for reaching out to me to replay the 1k.  You can pay me back by making a deposit in my Venmo/PayPal at [something that doesn't have specific account information]."  Avoid open ended statements/questions as that will invite additional small talk like "I hope you are doing well." or "How are you doing?"

If you want to rekindle the relationship (not advisable), move this to the bettering board.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

Hi Bxrrows,

First thought on the money is to assume she'll pay back zero (despite what anyone says), and treat any part of repayment as icing on the cake.

In terms of a course of action, you're in the driver's seat here, so how it goes depends on what you want and who you want to be.

From my perspective, an answer to that question would depend on who you want to be, and how you want to act, and how to do that with integrity.

If you want to look back on this part of your life and say "no matter what, I was the kind of person who treated someone with a serious mental illness with courtesy and respect", then that will probably guide your approach.

If by "blunt and dismissive" you're meaning more "firm and neutral", then that could be in line with acting with integrity, courtesy, and respect. You might also be interested in learning more about the "BIFF" communication approach -- it stands for Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm, and it's a framework for best practices for communicating (phone calls, texts, emails, etc) with a pwBPD. My H and I have found it really helpful for communicating with his kids' mom (who has many BPD type traits).

BIFF helps me be the person I want to be, and not stoop to her level by trying to "teach her a lesson", be rude, prove my points, or do anything that distracts focus away from respectful, problem-solving communication. When she emails us stuff like "I'll be out of town and need you to watch the kids, but the kids told me they don't want to spend time with you", it's tempting to prove her wrong, point out her rudeness, be really hurt/take it personally, etc. BIFF helps us live out our values instead of getting drawn into conflict/"who's right/who's wrong".

When you mention this:

what "things" are you thinking she may mention -- i.e., money things, relationship things...?

Again, this is something where you're in the driver's seat in terms of how much -- if at all -- you interact with any topic she brings up. She can bring up anything at all, and you have the power to decide ahead of time if you're open to that conversation.

Would you want to talk about the relationship, if you've already decided to be done?

Lots of questions! I'll pause there to hear back from you.

The money i kind of mentally parted ways with some time ago, the only reason it is even a subject to bring up is the last time we spoke she mentioned it and also kept making a point about wanting to repay it no matter what. In the same thought she sold me the world and completely switched up on me so her word doesn't exactly hold much weight anymore. If i get it cool, if not then its whatever.

I think the 'BIIF' model might help with the next conversation that will inevitably unfold, so i appreciate you both bringing this to my attention. I have a tendancy to come across aggressivly and speak quickly at times and would like to try and keep any communication calm.

The reason i had so many questions regarding our next chat is mainly down to all of our contact over the last month has been a bitter back and forth that i mainly put down to being in her 'black thinking' view of me. I am trying to better myself form this situation and dont want to lower myself to her level, I almost dont want her to get any more satisfaction out of knowing how hurt i am with things and was curious for a second opinion on approaches.

Whatever the conversation goes like, i feel like i will be speaking purely business and if she wants to check in or speak about anything regarding us then i wouldn't be completly closed off to the idea. Every now and again whenever we would speak that child like side of her that almost comes across remorseful comes out but im not sure if thats just another part of her attempts at manipulation. Again this is all speculative but i want to be prepared for communication and be open to speaking on things should she lead the conversation that way.

Bxrrows

[kells76]

I think the 'BIIF' model might help with the next conversation that will inevitably unfold, so i appreciate you both bringing this to my attention. I have a tendancy to come across aggressivly and speak quickly at times and would like to try and keep any communication calm.

That's good that you're aware of how you can come across, whether you intend it or not.

pwBPD can be pretty sensitive to tone and body language and feeling "shut down" or "talked over". Actually, I can't think of anyone who enjoys being talked over  even when the other person doesn't mean to. Sounds like this conversation will be a good growth opportunity for you -- can you stay in an aware headspace, give yourself time to pause and think through what you want to say, monitor how you're doing emotionally, and take responsibility for your part without trying to overfunction for her.

You have a goal in mind (it'd be nice to be repaid) and so now you have a structured approach to meeting your goal -- keep the discussion brief, keep it focused on the information and logistics, and stay friendly (or, if that isn't workable, polite and courteous -- I can't always do "friendly" with my H's kids' mom).

Do you plan to meet in person?

...

Whatever the conversation goes like, i feel like i will be speaking purely business and if she wants to check in or speak about anything regarding us then i wouldn't be completly closed off to the idea. Every now and again whenever we would speak that child like side of her that almost comes across remorseful comes out but im not sure if thats just another part of her attempts at manipulation. Again this is all speculative but i want to be prepared for communication and be open to speaking on things should she lead the conversation that way.

It can help to game-plan what your goals might be for that potential conversation. For example, some people want to try to get closure. Other people hope for an apology. some people want to find out if the ex is seeing someone else, or hear "proof" of something they've wondered about. Or, they may want to "end on good terms" on both sides, or see about going back to "just friends".

Generally speaking, looking to an ex partner for closure or healing after a breakup often leaves us unsatisfied -- even after a "broadly normal" breakup. A pwBPD can be even less emotionally able to provide any kind of closure, healing, or "good terms".

What would your goals be?

[Bxrrows]

That's good that you're aware of how you can come across, whether you intend it or not.

pwBPD can be pretty sensitive to tone and body language and feeling "shut down" or "talked over". Actually, I can't think of anyone who enjoys being talked over  even when the other person doesn't mean to. Sounds like this conversation will be a good growth opportunity for you -- can you stay in an aware headspace, give yourself time to pause and think through what you want to say, monitor how you're doing emotionally, and take responsibility for your part without trying to overfunction for her.

You have a goal in mind (it'd be nice to be repaid) and so now you have a structured approach to meeting your goal -- keep the discussion brief, keep it focused on the information and logistics, and stay friendly (or, if that isn't workable, polite and courteous -- I can't always do "friendly" with my H's kids' mom).

Do you plan to meet in person?

...

It can help to game-plan what your goals might be for that potential conversation. For example, some people want to try to get closure. Other people hope for an apology. some people want to find out if the ex is seeing someone else, or hear "proof" of something they've wondered about. Or, they may want to "end on good terms" on both sides, or see about going back to "just friends".

Generally speaking, looking to an ex partner for closure or healing after a breakup often leaves us unsatisfied -- even after a "broadly normal" breakup. A pwBPD can be even less emotionally able to provide any kind of closure, healing, or "good terms".

What would your goals be?

She has honestly been completly useless when it comes to closure, any form of quesion i ask she always told me she didn't know or felt numb with the situation which has given me one of the hardest times coming to terms with the fact this is all over. I spent a month sending paragraphs, letters, hours of phone calls trying to get any sort of information out of her and the best I would get out of anything was her agreeing with reasons I came up with. I feel betrayed knowing I spent all that time and effort trying to repair things that would have been so easily fixable, instead she spent her time seeking out a work colleague to replace me with.

I have a lot of anger surrounding all of this as our main problems from my POV stemmed from not feeling like she loved me anymore, being treated like a punching bag for her stresses and going out of her way to push my boundries on things i made known early doors I wasn't comfortable with her doing (clubbing and guy friends). I chalked a lot of this behavior up to her illness but refuse to let the blame fall completly on her traumas. I have always held a belief that you cant control how you feel but you have some form of control in how you act and she made me aware she knew she wasnt feeling good mentally but doubled down on all toxic behaviours until she found comfort with another man and cut me lose.

However, as angry as this has all made me, im not the sort of person that wants to let that feeling consume me and honestly pity her for ruining things with one of the only people who has ever accepted her for her as a person along with her illness as a package deal.

I want her to feel like she can talk to me about more then just the money and have a feeling she might try and probe me for some extra information about what is going on with me (just a hunch). Last time we spoke was last monday over the phone and she mentioned she started her new job and would be paying me back in a couple installments when the money started coming in.

During the call she asked questions about me and mentioned that she felt bad about everything but the majority of the conversation was surrounding me questioning her on this new guy she is seeing which made it sour until she back tracked stating she "was only calling about the money and nothing else" and rage hung up. This was obviously not her calling for that reason alone as the call came at 1am which showed it was from emotion.

Following that phone call i sent her a message which in short said "you reaching out and mentioning you felt bad is a possitive step, i need no contact rn to heal but if you needed to call me when you felt like that then i am not closed off to the idea", she liked that message and i have not heard anything since. Since then i have been focusing on myself and the only information i had on her was an instagram story she posted that my friend stupidly told me about where she was at a beer pong bar, presumably with the new guy shes seeing.

I guess whever the next contact will be, a phone call or text, its going to happen at a random time and i just want to be ready for wheverit does I feel like i have said everything i need to say and anything about our relationship would only be a rehash. Thing is that due to how hurt i feel i almost want her to understand how horrid her actions have been and for her to feel as PLEASE READty as i am while she been living up her new life care free...but of course there is no way of getting that message across that wont result in a negative interaction.

Its a tough one but i think i will let her lead the conversation and i will be purely reactionary on things. If she wants to talk about anything other then money it will be down to her to guide us to that point.

Bxrrows

[once removed]

She has honestly been completly useless when it comes to closure, any form of question i ask she always told me she didn't know or felt numb with the situation which has given me one of the hardest times coming to terms with the fact this is all over.

closure in the ideal form that we all would like is usually unrealistic.

a person who has terminated a relationship with us just is not in a place to offer it. they may be, rightly or wrongly, fixated on a flaw of ours. or they may have been fixated on a very real flaw, but now theyre focused on the more superficial, or theyre focused on the real deal breaker(s). or theyve altogether forgotten the reasons.

they may be, rightly or wrongly, processing the breakup and their reasoning.

they may be in a very different place than us when it comes to grieving the relationship. generally speaking, you have one person who has, to some extent, grieved the relationship, and the other person who is blindsided, not at all on the same page as to what was wrong.

there are thousands of songs written on the subject. very rarely is there a part two where everything is sorted out.

Thing is that due to how hurt i feel i almost want her to understand how horrid her actions have been and for her to feel as PLEASE READty as i am while she been living up her new life care free...but of course there is no way of getting that message across that wont result in a negative interaction.

i dont think anyone loves a breakup. in my experience, they are the most emotionally taxing thing ive been through.

one thing i do like about breakups is that the conflict is over. all those things weve been fighting about, a breakup is one sort of ultimate resolution.

you have your feelings from the breakup. theyre raw. theyre real. theyre profound.

but they arent going to be resolved by continuing the same conflict from the old relationship. you want to make her realize these things. that was a product of the old relationship. youve already done that. you have to ask yourself at the end of the day to what extent you want to resolve them now that the relationship is over, and to what extent its possible now that it is.

still, you want to make her realize these things. i did too.

i realized that just because the relationship was over, that didnt mean i had nothing to say. i still had a need to be heard. so i said what i needed to say, whether it was here, to friends, or on paper. i would encourage you to do any of that. let it out. but privately; not in a way that youre still arguing with your ex. manage this urge, with support, in a way that doesnt involve her.

[Bxrrows]

closure in the ideal form that we all would like is usually unrealistic.

a person who has terminated a relationship with us just is not in a place to offer it. they may be, rightly or wrongly, fixated on a flaw of ours. or they may have been fixated on a very real flaw, but now theyre focused on the more superficial, or theyre focused on the real deal breaker(s). or theyve altogether forgotten the reasons.

they may be, rightly or wrongly, processing the breakup and their reasoning.

they may be in a very different place than us when it comes to grieving the relationship. generally speaking, you have one person who has, to some extent, grieved the relationship, and the other person who is blindsided, not at all on the same page as to what was wrong.

there are thousands of songs written on the subject. very rarely is there a part two where everything is sorted out.

i dont think anyone loves a breakup. in my experience, they are the most emotionally taxing thing ive been through.

one thing i do like about breakups is that the conflict is over. all those things weve been fighting about, a breakup is one sort of ultimate resolution.

you have your feelings from the breakup. theyre raw. theyre real. theyre profound.

but they arent going to be resolved by continuing the same conflict from the old relationship. you want to make her realize these things. that was a product of the old relationship. youve already done that. you have to ask yourself at the end of the day to what extent you want to resolve them now that the relationship is over, and to what extent its possible now that it is.

still, you want to make her realize these things. i did too.

i realized that just because the relationship was over, that didnt mean i had nothing to say. i still had a need to be heard. so i said what i needed to say, whether it was here, to friends, or on paper. i would encourage you to do any of that. let it out. but privately; not in a way that youre still arguing with your ex. manage this urge, with support, in a way that doesnt involve her.

I agree with all you mentioned.

Since my last post I have taken more time to get my head around everything. While my feelings of anger/sadness are getting less intense over time, I still find myself hoping that shes been able to take time to think about what we had even if its only for moments throughout her day. I understand how much better off i am without her as begging for the bare minimum daily is not what you should need to do with someone who is meant to love you.

As much as it all hurts, I know that I have done everything in my power for us to survive and i can walk away comfortable knowing that this is no fault of mine, I cant force someone to match my effort.

I am distracting myself with my hobbies and work which has stopped me obsessing over what we had as much. She was a huge part of my life and I will always love the version of her I got to experience, even if shes not there anymore. She can put on a fake face for everyone else and pretend shes okay, but I know that scared little girl that shows herself from time to time is just doing what she needs to survive as she is very unwell. I like to think one day she will be able to come to terms with whats happened over pushing her real emotions down and moving on with the first person who catches her eye......but if that never happens, then im okay with it.

I am curious to see how our next interaction goes as I will just be playing the conversation reactionary to whatever she ends up saying. I will be remaining no contact and will not be breaking that. Cluing myself up on BPD really gave me my own sense of closure and im ready to move forward from this chapter of my life and start putting myself first which i oddly have not done in a very long time.

Bxrrows

[Borderless]

I'm a FIXER myself.  I had a 15 year relationship with a wife that began to get more and more mentally ill after we'd been married about 5 years.  Eventually she was full-blown BPD.

From my experience I will tell you a couple of things that may help. The $1K subject is not about the money for her.   She will NEVER pay it all back, EVER.  BPD folks value money mainly only as a way to control you.  Think of that money as a Thousand Dollar Golden Key she can use to manipulate you at any time she needs n emotional pickup from you.  She will forever keep it in her pocket as a remote to your heart and giving, fixing nature.   Its better to just tell her "Its a gift - I don't want it back."  That takes away all the power from her golden key remote over you. 

My most important advice to you:  Be glad you're young and have time to have a valid relationship in the future.  Learn this important lesson thoroughly.  Avoid BPD folks in the future!  Its not good for you or them. 

[Bxrrows]

I'm a FIXER myself.  I had a 15 year relationship with a wife that began to get more and more mentally ill after we'd been married about 5 years.  Eventually she was full-blown BPD.

From my experience I will tell you a couple of things that may help. The $1K subject is not about the money for her.   She will NEVER pay it all back, EVER.  BPD folks value money mainly only as a way to control you.  Think of that money as a Thousand Dollar Golden Key she can use to manipulate you at any time she needs n emotional pickup from you.  She will forever keep it in her pocket as a remote to your heart and giving, fixing nature.   Its better to just tell her "Its a gift - I don't want it back."  That takes away all the power from her golden key remote over you. 

My most important advice to you:  Be glad you're young and have time to have a valid relationship in the future.  Learn this important lesson thoroughly.  Avoid BPD folks in the future!  Its not good for you or them. 

The fact i only wasted a year on this relationship is one bright light I have found in this whole situation. I feel for you and every other person who has spoken to me about their long term relationships with countless years thrown away due to this illness.

The money, like i mentioned previously, was something I have already parted ways with and if it gets sent over great, if not then im fine with losing it.

I made her block me on everything as I did not have the self control to do it myself and would constantly block/unblock to check up. Any form of contact we have now is entierly down to her so I am taking this opportunity to move forward with my life and have made a promise to myself that I would be very vague with her if we do ever speak again. Plus she has her new victim that she is either seeing or in a relationship with so that will preocupy her for the time being while i work on building myself back up from the car crash this has left me in. We live a medium distance away so there is a slim chance i will ever randomly run into her which also helps with moving on.

As a fixer you may well understand we always seem to attract broken people. At least now i know the extent of the effect this illness specifically has on me and the person holding BPD, i will be making sure that anyone with this illness is someone I activly avoid in future realtionships.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

The fact i only wasted a year on this relationship is one bright light I have found in this whole situation. I feel for you and every other person who has spoken to me about their long term relationships with countless years thrown away due to this illness.

Oh how I envy you, I am in my 2nd relationship, now 24 years together, which was much more subtle than the obvious mess I was in the first one.  My first one was of a similar length to yours; however, my 2nd one was much much more subtle, and insidious*.  I do have an exit strategy; however, since children are involved, I have to endure until my 2nd child can launch out of this situation, my first child is ready to launch soon and has a full set of tools to deal with with this.


The money, like i mentioned previously, was something I have already parted ways with and if it gets sent over great, if not then im fine with losing it.

I am glad that you realize this - this is what I did with my first borderline relationship.


I made her block me on everything as I did not have the self control to do it myself and would constantly block/unblock to check up. Any form of contact we have now is entierly down to her so I am taking this opportunity to move forward with my life and have made a promise to myself that I would be very vague with her if we do ever speak again. Plus she has her new victim that she is either seeing or in a relationship with so that will preocupy her for the time being while i work on building myself back up from the car crash this has left me in. We live a medium distance away so there is a slim chance i will ever randomly run into her which also helps with moving on.

My first one, was a long distance relationship, so no worries about crossing paths again.  While I did not block (the technology wasn't available back then) I did monitor from time to time - and the sh!t show that followed after I left would be fit for a psychological thriller movie.  If you ever do speak again, keep it BIFF (brief, informational, factual, and friendly), and definitely be dismissive too. 


As a fixer you may well understand we always seem to attract broken people. At least now i know the extent of the effect this illness specifically has on me and the person holding BPD, i will be making sure that anyone with this illness is someone I activly avoid in future realtionships.

I am glad that you understand this; I didn't, and I am paying for it right now, and have done so for the past two decades - it was only last year that I figured this out with the help of an individual therapist.  This illness can be very well hidden, or it can be painfully obvious.  Learn of all the red flags, use caution, and most importantly follow your 'gut' - (*)if it seems 'too good to be true' - IT IS!

I thought I was catching a lucky break after my previous BPD/NPD relationship, only to find myself in an OCPD/BPD relationship afterward.  She seemed so normal, valedictorean, graduated college with honors, had a successful job/career.  I went from a failure to someone who seemingly had it all together, and I thought I had hit the jackpot - she did too, except she would turn out to be much more sinister.

If you find the perfect girl in the future, who is intelligent, and appears to have her sh!t together, look for more subtle clues, the best one I have identified is excessive FOO (family of origin) estrangement - that shows multi-generational conflict and an unwillingness to compromise.

2nd clue, is that they are way too eager to jump in the sack with you (first date for both BPD relationships) - in today's dating culture it is the 3rd to 5th date, and I think this is too fast, I would suggest waiting at least a month if not longer, but not more than a year.  Be a friend first, then a lover.  Same thing with moving in with each other, wait at least a year, getting married, two years, and even then you still can be had - I speak from personal experience on this.

If you want, I can look up more, this site has several list of 'red flags'  red-flag to look out for.  After working with my individual therapist, I now have working CRAYDAR (CRAzY raDAR) and can literally pick them out from up to a mile away.  Most of the women who are now hitting on me are a dozen years younger, most of them are very physically attractive (I'm not) and are a freaky mismatch for me.  While it does feel good to be pursued even with the wedding band on my finger - I will engage enough to figure them out (to fine tune my CRAYDAR), and then disengage.  Never give out contact information unless you want a stalker.

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.  I wish you the best of luck as you move on, learn from this experience.  Most importantly do realize even when you find a woman that 'ticks all of the boxes' - someone who is 'too good to be true' according to your 'gut feeling' can also be a potential nightmare - take it slow, and even then you can be fooled, I know I was, and it is really embarrassing for me - I used to have shame around this; however, I have shifted to knowing that this can happen and I am spreading the word, it might happen to you too, just be on the lookout for it.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[kells76]

Hi Bxrrows;

It makes sense that you are ready to close the book on this relationship, and you want healthier relationships moving forward. That's a good mindset to have.

The end of a BPD relationship is an invitation to dig deep into ourselves. Not everyone takes it, but the door is there if you are interested. It can dig up some hard stuff.

These parts of your post stood out to me as potential areas to do some digging and some work, in order to have healthier relationships in the future:

I made her block me on everything as I did not have the self control to do it myself and would constantly block/unblock to check up. Any form of contact we have now is entierly down to her so I am taking this opportunity to move forward with my life and have made a promise to myself that I would be very vague with her if we do ever speak again. Plus she has her new victim that she is either seeing or in a relationship with so that will preocupy her for the time being while i work on building myself back up from the car crash this has left me in. We live a medium distance away so there is a slim chance i will ever randomly run into her which also helps with moving on.

Hard question: that's giving her your power. Where is that lack of self control coming from? Was there something addictive about checking up on her? Was there anyone else in your life besides her who could've been your "accountability partner" about that urge?

Trust me, I get it about checking up on exes. I once befriended a serious ex's new girlfriend, without telling her I was her BF's old GF -- I wanted that "in" in his life.

As a fixer you may well understand we always seem to attract broken people. At least now i know the extent of the effect this illness specifically has on me and the person holding BPD, i will be making sure that anyone with this illness is someone I activly avoid in future realtionships.

Someone much wiser than me about detaching once made this comment: imagine we're in the grocery store and we're looking at fruit. We pride ourselves on being really, really good about not picking bad fruit. We have a huge list of "bad fruit qualities": it's mushy, it has bruises, it smells bad, it's too brown, etc. We are doing awesome at pointing at various bananas, apples, etc, and saying "bad fruit"!

But how do we pick good fruit? The ability to not pick bad fruit is not the same as building the ability to identify and select good fruit.

Something about our "picker" is broken if we have chosen to be in a relationship with a pwBPD. It's not that they threw themselves at us and seduced us, and the only issue was we didn't have a list of "bad fruit" qualities.

We were attracted to something disordered, AND we hadn't cultivated the ability to pick good fruit.

It took me a good decade to see that someone I once dated (we met in an IOP, that "should have" warned me) had many traits and behaviors of BPD.

The questions for me at that time should have been:

-What is it about me and my past that makes a BPD relationship dynamic feel so familiar to me, and
-How can I develop the ability to choose healthier partners?

...

Lots of food for thought -- you can decide what you're up for, no pressure.

Good to see you posting here;

kells76

[Bxrrows]

These parts of your post stood out to me as potential areas to do some digging and some work, in order to have healthier relationships in the future:

Hard question: that's giving her your power. Where is that lack of self control coming from? Was there something addictive about checking up on her? Was there anyone else in your life besides her who could've been your "accountability partner" about that urge?

kells76

I think my main issue is the fact that i am natrually a fixer within relationships and after a year of spending 3/4 days a week with her, I got used to being that person who would be ready to help her through her mood changes. She would often be laughing with me about a silly joke or situation we found funny together, then suddenly burst into tears a few mins later and say she didnt feel good. I think with that dynamic in place of knowing at any time her mood could flip and being made to feel like i was the solution by her always saying "i need my Bxrrows" gave me some feeling of responsibilty over making sure she was always okay.

With that all in mind I could see whenever we would meet or speak over the phone, that scared girl who needed me would show herself breifly before the nasty split personality came back to take control of her again. Knowing my girl was still inside of her deep down made me feel like there would be a time where she would see sense and reach out to reconsile all the wrong that had happened.

So the past of being the fixer for her mood swings, seeing glimpses of that scared girl and just wanting her to be okay regardless of where that left us kept me checking her socials and looking when she was last active on whatsapp. Knowing that if she didnt go on whatsapp in the evening would mean the new guy shes seeing would be with her and the fact i had access to that information and couldnt stop myself from blocking and unblocking resulted in me needing her to block me so I simply had no way to check. I know its giving up power that she will use to fuel her but i honestly had no other choice if i wanted to move forward as for her i had no self control.

Just as another segment of information on the latest development on the situation since my last post. Currently I am blocked on all socials that we would typically comunicate on. However I am not blocked on twitter (x) and would from time to time open her page just to look at her profile pic and leave. On her twitter she only follows meme pages I showed her and myself, but I have noticed she started following a guy she used to work with who we previously had issues with.

For some context this same guy used to offer her lifts home that were completly out of his way and message her late at night, I told her that he was clearly into her and it made me uncomfrotable. After some back and forth, I told her I wanted her to block him because the late night chats did not stop after a couple of weeks of this going on. Eventually she did end up blocking him because it made me uncomfortable and she made it known that she understood why I felt the way I did so we moved forward.

Fast forward to our break up, hes unblocked, added back onto socials and knowing now that hes on her twitter that she rarely ever uses, the signs all point towards him as the new guy she is seeing (i also know that the guy she is seeing was someone she used to work with which makes it make even more sense). This is all just a deduction of course and you might as me 'Bxrrows why do you even care?'. The point for me is that i understood she would have a subconcious back up in mind for when we did split as her cycle as always been like that with every ex, but its made me rethink a big portion of our relationship and was the situation a few months back cheating that I didnt even know about?

Its funny to me as well because she made a point numerous times to tell me how disgusting she found him and would always saw "eww hs is gross" when i would wind her up with jokes about him, following when she blocked him originally.

Also a few days after we split, I asked her where she was and she told me she was home watching tv, she forgot I still had her location and i saw she went straight from work to a random house, so I called her and eventually she picked up. When confronted on the what I knew she had no answer and told me via text after hanging up that she was visiting a friend of hers who was a "40 year old man friend" (remember she is 22) who she sought advice from like a father figure. At the time I really had no reason to distrust her as to my knowledge she never lied to me and it fit some of the strange friendships with older people i knew she had already. Having my theory now about starting to see this guy from her work, im sure she was at his place instead of this 40 year old man as it was in a simular loaction to where she told me he lived in a previous conversation.

Hoping not to come across too arogarrogant by saying this but that guy from her work is 5'6, balding at 22, worse looking (im not exactly a diamond but hes like a 3/10) and makes less then half of my annual salary so to me knowing she has downgraded in every department gives me something to smile about.

Coming to this realisation now made me rethink a lot of things that happened leading up to us ending, if im right then she lied to me for a very long time about a lot of stuff and even though it changes nothing now, im having a lot of thoughts about things i previously never second guessed.

If my theory about him being the guy is correct then the only logical reason for her wanting to be around him right now is for that possitive attention she gets to feed her narcassism as she hasnt been getting that from me becasue of our situation. Knowing it will eventually implode at some point from her inabilty to keep people around and that the foundation of whatever they have is built on the ruins of our relationship makes me happy. Im not a vindictive person at all but knowing how hard i fought for us get through our rough patch ended how it did, she will have no chance making anything last with anyone, let alone her rebound from work.

Bxrrows

[Bxrrows]

The fact i only wasted a year on this relationship is one bright light I have found in this whole situation. I feel for you and every other person who has spoken to me about their long term relationships with countless years thrown away due to this illness.

Oh how I envy you, I am in my 2nd relationship, now 24 years together, which was much more subtle than the obvious mess I was in the first one.  My first one was of a similar length to yours; however, my 2nd one was much much more subtle, and insidious*.  I do have an exit strategy; however, since children are involved, I have to endure until my 2nd child can launch out of this situation, my first child is ready to launch soon and has a full set of tools to deal with with this.

I cannot express how much I have learnt from this forum along with reading other peoples stories on how they are in a simular situations. Speaking with people about my situation who have never been in a BPD relationship really feels quite empty when seeking advice so the work you all do here really is valuable.

I hope you manage to work through your situation as well my friend. 20+ years of these people in your life is not even something I would ever want to live through, my one year was enough haha. Hopefully whatever happens you find peace and your children are kept safe throughout.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

I cannot express how much I have learnt from this forum along with reading other peoples stories on how they are in a simular situations. Speaking with people about my situation who have never been in a BPD relationship really feels quite empty when seeking advice so the work you all do here really is valuable.

I hope you manage to work through your situation as well my friend. 20+ years of these people in your life is not even something I would ever want to live through, my one year was enough haha. Hopefully whatever happens you find peace and your children are kept safe throughout.

Bxrrows

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for your kind words. 

   The primary reason why I'm still in this relationship is my wife had already telegraphed she would get really mean with her false narratives (starting with false allegations of child abuse, which I have had our couple's therapist already debunk as she is a former CPS (child protective services) LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) - while my wife's feelings were real when I was disciplining my then 1st grader in front of teachers and the principle at a school program (all of whom are mandated reporters, and didn't report since there was nothing to report) to lead him firmly out of the cafeteria by the hand under my 1st grader's protests to stop the interruption of the program - the couple's therapist did not see any issue and said my wife's allegation would have been 'unfounded' if CPS evaluated it.  Fortunately 3 out of the 4 allegations she has accused me of were in front of mandated reporters where there were around embarrassing behaviors, so she was all stressed out which put her emotions feeling into wild state of over-exaggeration that feels real to her. 

   She has also made other false accusations about me towards her as well, such as DV, which is untrue, and I am recording many of our heated discussions should they come to light, I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary.  So it is a huge F, in the Fear, Obligation, and Guilt that I am remaining in the relationship as I do not want to ruin any more of our children's childhood anymore that it already has been done, and continue to repair it.

   Due to the speed of divorce litigation where I live, I do not want to engage in divorce at the moment as that will most likely result in severe dysregulation directed against our children by my wife (she has shown signs, and I am running interception on this, and setting and enforcing boundaries around this).  Also, my wife has indicated a willingness to work towards bettering the relationship, even though it has stalled at the moment and needs to resume. 

   If she were to escalate other false narratives it would be devastating to our children as well as myself as her impassioned over-exaggerated statements are very believable unless closely evaluated - but then the damage would already be done for months if not years down the road where my name would eventually be cleared.  I am also maneuvering our finances to reduce the financial hit of our co-mingled monies should divorce occur in order to make the playing field a little more level.  It is unfortunate that the 'kangaroo' court system of family law imposes this outcome on men unless it is overabundant-ly clear my wife has a mental illness, which her therapists will not do, even though all of her behaviors and symptoms indicate otherwise.

   At least until my children are out of the house and in college, I can work (within) the system to become a larger positive force in each of their lives (full-time parenting vs 50% or less parenting) and minimize the damage caused by my wife, and help her become aware of this damage (her therapists are instrumental in this).  I am working with my children to have them become more self-sufficient, so if we do separate, they will have some idea what to do instead of 'no-clue'.  My D gets it, my S is still a work in progress.

Trust me you don't want to go through what I have, or others have for decades.  Learn what you can from this.  Make sure you don't find another (more subtle) partner who has issues in the future, like I did.  Keep your eyes open, and follow your 'gut' if something feels 'off' - I didn't, and I am paying for it.  This has been a really hard lesson for me to learn, and if you can learn it too and avoid the mistakes I have made, it is worth it.

Take care with self-care.

SaltyDawg

[Bxrrows]

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for your kind words. 

   The primary reason why I'm still in this relationship is my wife had already telegraphed she would get really mean with her false narratives (starting with false allegations of child abuse, which I have had our couple's therapist already debunk as she is a former CPS (child protective services) LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) - while my wife's feelings were real when I was disciplining my then 1st grader in front of teachers and the principle at a school program (all of whom are mandated reporters, and didn't report since there was nothing to report) to lead him firmly out of the cafeteria by the hand under my 1st grader's protests to stop the interruption of the program - the couple's therapist did not see any issue and said my wife's allegation would have been 'unfounded' if CPS evaluated it.  Fortunately 3 out of the 4 allegations she has accused me of were in front of mandated reporters where there were around embarrassing behaviors, so she was all stressed out which put her emotions feeling into wild state of over-exaggeration that feels real to her. 

   She has also made other false accusations about me towards her as well, such as DV, which is untrue, and I am recording many of our heated discussions should they come to light, I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary.  So it is a huge F, in the Fear, Obligation, and Guilt that I am remaining in the relationship as I do not want to ruin any more of our children's childhood anymore that it already has been done, and continue to repair it.

   Due to the speed of divorce litigation where I live, I do not want to engage in divorce at the moment as that will most likely result in severe dysregulation directed against our children by my wife (she has shown signs, and I am running interception on this, and setting and enforcing boundaries around this).  Also, my wife has indicated a willingness to work towards bettering the relationship, even though it has stalled at the moment and needs to resume. 

   If she were to escalate other false narratives it would be devastating to our children as well as myself as her impassioned over-exaggerated statements are very believable unless closely evaluated - but then the damage would already be done for months if not years down the road where my name would eventually be cleared.  I am also maneuvering our finances to reduce the financial hit of our co-mingled monies should divorce occur in order to make the playing field a little more level.  It is unfortunate that the 'kangaroo' court system of family law imposes this outcome on men unless it is overabundant-ly clear my wife has a mental illness, which her therapists will not do, even though all of her behaviors and symptoms indicate otherwise.

   At least until my children are out of the house and in college, I can work (within) the system to become a larger positive force in each of their lives (full-time parenting vs 50% or less parenting) and minimize the damage caused by my wife, and help her become aware of this damage (her therapists are instrumental in this).  I am working with my children to have them become more self-sufficient, so if we do separate, they will have some idea what to do instead of 'no-clue'.  My D gets it, my S is still a work in progress.

Trust me you don't want to go through what I have, or others have for decades.  Learn what you can from this.  Make sure you don't find another (more subtle) partner who has issues in the future, like I did.  Keep your eyes open, and follow your 'gut' if something feels 'off' - I didn't, and I am paying for it.  This has been a really hard lesson for me to learn, and if you can learn it too and avoid the mistakes I have made, it is worth it.

Take care with self-care.

SaltyDawg

I really hope everything works out in your situation and you are able to move forward in the best way possible for both you an your children. 20+ years is a very long time to have this happen and only having a year under my belt and feeling how I do really puts it into perspective.

I have also noticed today that my pwBPDs mother, who i got on with very well has blocked my number on whatsapp after I sent her a christmas card (not sure if it was a good idea now). This is the 2nd family member of hers who has now blocked me along with her following the break up. Her Mother and Sister both reached out to me after the break up to check in and have since blocked me on socials and phone number. I am sure this is down to my ex creating a narrative about me being obsessed or something as initally following the break up i naturally did everything i could to salvage things before going into NC 3 weeks ago.

I was also wondering if you had any thoughts on my update i posted just before I thanked you. Puting the parts together and figuring out who my ex is now seeing has really pushed me back a few steps in my attempt to move forward.

Any thoughts or advice would be very much apprecaited.

Bxrrows

[once removed]

I have also noticed today that my pwBPDs mother, who i got on with very well has blocked my number on whatsapp after I sent her a christmas card
...
I am sure this is down to my ex creating a narrative about me being obsessed or something

it might be.

unfortunately, relationships like this (you and her family) are usually casualties, in a breakup.

when a breakup happens, everyone is forced to take sides. family and friends will tend to take the side of the person they knew first.

it can hurt, a lot. it can compound the pain of the breakup. you may naturally wonder "what did i do"? and the answer is, whether your ex had anything to do with it or not, these people you care about have chosen the side of their family.

im sorry. in my life, ive lost a lot of important relationships over breakups, or friendships ending, or over conflict with others. when my ex broke up with me, the mutual friends i made through that relationship, were long gone.

I think my main issue is the fact that i am natrually a fixer within relationships

to be clear, a "fixer" is a maladaptive schema.

if you are finding yourself in this position, repeatedly, it would really behoove you to take a hard look at, as you heal, and as you consider what you want to take into future relationships.

Knowing it will eventually implode at some point from her inabilty to keep people around and that the foundation of whatever they have is built on the ruins of our relationship makes me happy.

this is a common way of coping. it is a way that i leaned on hard in the early days of my recovery; my ex left me for someone else, too.

the problem is, it builds the foundation of your recovery on whether they fail or succeed, which is a pretty shaky foundation.

so, what if they dont implode? what if they succeed? would that say anything about you?

presumably, all of your prior exes have moved on to other relationships, and to greater or lesser degrees of success. does that say anything about you as a person? is it a situation where you feel the need to compare yourself?

we all develop coping mechanisms in our early years. often times, we find, in adulthood, that they no longer serve us. sometimes they persist until we cant live with them anymore.

a breakup with a pwbpd (or anyone, really) is a crossroads. on one side of that crossroads, is the baggage of the relationship, its wounds, and the old wounds that have been ripped open. we can keep going on that path, and take those things into the next relationship, and maybe the next, and the next. when you have an abandonment wound like this, it is very easy for it to linger, and that path can seem like the most appealing, or even the only obvious path.

alternatively, we can learn more about ourselves, reinvent ourselves, and come out of this stronger than ever, and go on to thrive.

The end of a BPD relationship is an invitation to dig deep into ourselves. Not everyone takes it, but the door is there if you are interested. It can dig up some hard stuff.

it may be hard, but it can unlock the door to freedom from our suffering if we take it.

[Bxrrows]

it might be.

unfortunately, relationships like this (you and her family) are usually casualties, in a breakup.

when a breakup happens, everyone is forced to take sides. family and friends will tend to take the side of the person they knew first.

it can hurt, a lot. it can compound the pain of the breakup. you may naturally wonder "what did i do"? and the answer is, whether your ex had anything to do with it or not, these people you care about have chosen the side of their family.

I was always very close with her family and they would always pull me a side and thank me for getting her out of the hole she was in when we first met, she was in a cycle wiht her ex that wasn't healthy and would have sporadic partners between their break ups. Its only when we met that that cycle ended up breaking. Them knowing that I understood her phases of switching up and being able to for the most part bring her back to herself, made me hopeful that when she started treating me poorly they would step in and help set her straight. They all held me i such high regard and knowing they knew she was spiraling I really thought they would help me take care of her with me but evidently that never happened.

I never expected them to take my side or choose me ever after the break up. My ex has BPD and her irrational behaviour can somewhat be partly blamed on that, but her family have no excuse when it comes to enabling her and letting her destroy the life she built with me. In hindsight they are the same people who neglected her so much when she was younger which resulted in her BPD condition, so knowing that how could I possibly trust them to help her at all when they are the very people who resulted in her fear of abandonment in the first place.

From how this has all unfolded over the past few weeks. I think she told her family that we broke up and that was it, she must have made out like we have no conversations and it was dead. She must have told them about this new guy 2 weeks after the offical split when in reality they were chatting either before we broke up or the day it happened. Then when I started getting in contact with her family to step in and help her they just saw it as the obsessive ex who wont leave her alone when she has already moved on. So now they got a christmas card they have blocked me for the same reasons i assume.

But in reality from the day we broke up, we spoke every day with long phone calls every night over the next month talking about things. Whenever I would need space she would message to check in and keep me at arms reach until she felt like it was time to completly cut me off.  To me it seemed like we were working on things and getting back on track. So after things started to break down and she was spiralling further and further into someone I did not recognise, that is when i made the choice to contact her family as I knew I couldnt help her alone.

Again this is all a theory I have thought up to give myself some logical answers. Its in her nature to be manipulative, but to villanise me like she has and completly detatch from anything we had while turning her family against me with a fake play of events really shows the type of person she can be when she isnt mirroring me.

As you mentioned it is not a good foundation to move forward on the basis of knowing her relationships might not work out. But to me I have seen first hand how she copes with everything in life and none of it is ever facing reality, its always to find a distraction and forget. She did the same sort of thing when her pet died, she cried that night she lost a rabbit and the next day she went out and brought another one as if nothing happened. The same thing goes for her relationships. She has only ever had one boyfriend officially before me and they were on and off for 4 years and every break up she would have someone lined up to keep her busy. Even though i know shes come a long way since being with me, her actions following our break up follow the same trend she put in place with her ex before me. If she couldn't make us work when everything was so easy and secure, then I highly doubt she will be able to make things work with this new guy who was a snake, waiting for her to be single and the basis of their relationship being build off the ruins/pain she is feeling deep down about us breaking up.

I am 3 weeks no contact and have not heard anything from her yet, I know at some point she will get in touch, if by some miracle its about the money she owes me or some other excuse, im sure this isnt the last of me hearing from her.  I dont wish these feelings I am going through on anyone, I just hope she is able to take some time for herself over these constant distractions as she is only going to leave a path of pain in her wake for anyone she gets involved with.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

I really hope everything works out in your situation and you are able to move forward in the best way possible for both you an your children. 20+ years is a very long time to have this happen and only having a year under my belt and feeling how I do really puts it into perspective.

It is a never ending marathon to deal with a pwBPD.  There are good days, and bad days.  As long as the good days are increasing and the bad days are decreasing, I intend to stay as it will benefit our children.  We are moving forward, backwards too, but as long as the general trend is forward I will continue to work with my wife on improving the situation.


I have also noticed today that my pwBPDs mother, who i got on with very well has blocked my number on whatsapp after I sent her a christmas card (not sure if it was a good idea now). This is the 2nd family member of hers who has now blocked me along with her following the break up. Her Mother and Sister both reached out to me after the break up to check in and have since blocked me on socials and phone number. I am sure this is down to my ex creating a narrative about me being obsessed or something as initally following the break up i naturally did everything i could to salvage things before going into NC 3 weeks ago.

Since it is her mother and her sister, both of them are 'blood' lined to her your ex, so they will support her narrative over yours, so, try not to let it get under your skin with the false narrative that your ex is sharing with them.


I was also wondering if you had any thoughts on my update i posted just before I thanked you. Puting the parts together and figuring out who my ex is now seeing has really pushed me back a few steps in my attempt to move forward.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing you are referring to what you posted here...

The following 4 weeks i was trying to fix things as we both made a rash decision. We spoke daily and she would say how much she cared about me while seeking attention from other boys and going to their houses. This has ultimatly ended in her getting involved with one of the boys from her work who she is now seeing in place of me. She has made a point to tell me that she is not in a relationship with him but has told me they are sleeping together. None of her actions match up with what she tells me. She tells me how much she loves and cares for me while treating me so poorly, but then she tells me she is done with us and doesnt want me around anymore while refusing to let me go with random reminicent texts about us/the past.

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

Well, you pretty much summed it up - it doesn't make logical sense, a.k.a. 'crazy making'.  What you are seeing is a variation on the fear of abandonment.  They will monkey branch (find a new relationship prior to ending the previous one) as they fear the most that they will be abandoned.  In order to not feel that way, they have to be with someone whether or not it is a healthy.
 They will follow the rules of the new toy.  The new toy is more often than not also defective, and they will follow the new boy toy's rules, and block you on everything.  They will also make up [false] facts, to meet their narrative on why they dumped you [you are supposed to be a bad person - see if you can recall if she said something similar about her previous relationships before you, it is often a pattern that is repeated over and over again, it is the hallmark of the 2nd symptom in addition to the 1st symptom of PBD].

Her calling you, while she is seeing this other boy, is to make sure you will be there if the other boy doesn't work out.  Both you and this boy, are her emotional supply, if one dries up, then there will be another, and if one becomes dull, boring, too much effort, she will find another.  Do you want to be 2nd fiddle to this boy toy and others (you did mention more than one boy)?

Generally speaking a borderline's love starts off very intensely which more often than not includes passionate sex very early into the relationship, moving in together very shortly thereafter, this is called 'love bombing' and is common to most cluster B personalities including BPD.


Any thoughts or advice would be very much apprecaited.

Bxrrows, I have given you my thoughts based on your observations.  What you do with my thoughts is up to you.  However, if I were in your shoes, and there is no mortgage, no children, no shared finances, I would consider myself extremely lucky that I dodged a bullet of a nightmare (that I am still in) and run away, and never look back and chalk it up as a learning experience like I did with my first pwBPD, except, I only learned a partial lesson with the uBPD/uNPD/u+exgf, and was duped again with my uBPD/uOCPDw (the OCPD masked a few of the more troubling symptoms), so I had to figure out what was wrong with me, that's a whole different story, that is related to why crazy is attracted to me.

Keep coming back and asking more questions.

Also, be sure to do self-care whatever that looks like for you.

Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

I think my main issue is the fact that i am natrually a fixer within relationships and after a year of spending 3/4 days a week with her, I got used to being that person who would be ready to help her through her mood changes. She would often be laughing with me about a silly joke or situation we found funny together, then suddenly burst into tears a few mins later and say she didnt feel good. I think with that dynamic in place of knowing at any time her mood could flip and being made to feel like i was the solution by her always saying "i need my Bxrrows" gave me some feeling of responsibilty over making sure she was always okay.

With that all in mind I could see whenever we would meet or speak over the phone, that scared girl who needed me would show herself breifly before the nasty split personality came back to take control of her again. Knowing my girl was still inside of her deep down made me feel like there would be a time where she would see sense and reach out to reconsile all the wrong that had happened.

So the past of being the fixer for her mood swings, seeing glimpses of that scared girl and just wanting her to be okay regardless of where that left us kept me checking her socials and looking when she was last active on whatsapp. Knowing that if she didnt go on whatsapp in the evening would mean the new guy shes seeing would be with her and the fact i had access to that information and couldnt stop myself from blocking and unblocking resulted in me needing her to block me so I simply had no way to check. I know its giving up power that she will use to fuel her but i honestly had no other choice if i wanted to move forward as for her i had no self control.

Just as another segment of information on the latest development on the situation since my last post. Currently I am blocked on all socials that we would typically comunicate on. However I am not blocked on twitter (x) and would from time to time open her page just to look at her profile pic and leave. On her twitter she only follows meme pages I showed her and myself, but I have noticed she started following a guy she used to work with who we previously had issues with.

For some context this same guy used to offer her lifts home that were completly out of his way and message her late at night, I told her that he was clearly into her and it made me uncomfrotable. After some back and forth, I told her I wanted her to block him because the late night chats did not stop after a couple of weeks of this going on. Eventually she did end up blocking him because it made me uncomfortable and she made it known that she understood why I felt the way I did so we moved forward.

Fast forward to our break up, hes unblocked, added back onto socials and knowing now that hes on her twitter that she rarely ever uses, the signs all point towards him as the new guy she is seeing (i also know that the guy she is seeing was someone she used to work with which makes it make even more sense). This is all just a deduction of course and you might as me 'Bxrrows why do you even care?'. The point for me is that i understood she would have a subconcious back up in mind for when we did split as her cycle as always been like that with every ex, but its made me rethink a big portion of our relationship and was the situation a few months back cheating that I didnt even know about?

Its funny to me as well because she made a point numerous times to tell me how disgusting she found him and would always saw "eww hs is gross" when i would wind her up with jokes about him, following when she blocked him originally.

Also a few days after we split, I asked her where she was and she told me she was home watching tv, she forgot I still had her location and i saw she went straight from work to a random house, so I called her and eventually she picked up. When confronted on the what I knew she had no answer and told me via text after hanging up that she was visiting a friend of hers who was a "40 year old man friend" (remember she is 22) who she sought advice from like a father figure. At the time I really had no reason to distrust her as to my knowledge she never lied to me and it fit some of the strange friendships with older people i knew she had already. Having my theory now about starting to see this guy from her work, im sure she was at his place instead of this 40 year old man as it was in a simular loaction to where she told me he lived in a previous conversation.

Hoping not to come across too arogarrogant by saying this but that guy from her work is 5'6, balding at 22, worse looking (im not exactly a diamond but hes like a 3/10) and makes less then half of my annual salary so to me knowing she has downgraded in every department gives me something to smile about.

Coming to this realisation now made me rethink a lot of things that happened leading up to us ending, if im right then she lied to me for a very long time about a lot of stuff and even though it changes nothing now, im having a lot of thoughts about things i previously never second guessed.

If my theory about him being the guy is correct then the only logical reason for her wanting to be around him right now is for that possitive attention she gets to feed her narcassism as she hasnt been getting that from me becasue of our situation. Knowing it will eventually implode at some point from her inabilty to keep people around and that the foundation of whatever they have is built on the ruins of our relationship makes me happy. Im not a vindictive person at all but knowing how hard i fought for us get through our rough patch ended how it did, she will have no chance making anything last with anyone, let alone her rebound from work.

Bxrrows

This was the part I was refering to SD, if you or anyone else had any thoughts on this section as its been playing on my mind for the last week.

Again thanks to all who have helped give me more insight from their perspective thus far.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

This was the part I was refering to SD, if you or anyone else had any thoughts on this section as its been playing on my mind for the last week.

Again thanks to all who have helped give me more insight from their perspective thus far.

Bxrrows

Bxrrows,

   Sorry for the misunderstanding, that is why I asked, as you had written quite a bit.  Being mindful I am not a trained expert, nor am I a licensed therapist, I will look at it from a perspective of being a peer mentor who has done a lot of informal research and observation on the topic, so at best these will be educated guesses based on my personal experiences...  So here goes...


I think my main issue is the fact that i am natrually a fixer within relationships and after a year of spending 3/4 days a week with her, I got used to being that person who would be ready to help her through her mood changes.

I think most of us who post on this site are 'naturally a fixer' as this is a codependent trait, and according to Google >90% of us have codependent traits.  Also, it is not your job to help her through her mood changes.  I tell my wife I am a shoulder for you to cry on; however, I will not be used as your punching bag (where she takes out her dysregulated emotions on me).  It took me a while to learn this (I am a slow learner, as you can teach this old 'dawg' new tricks).  I validate her feelings and emotions; however, I will not validate the invalid which are too often the false facts that are derived from her overly intense feelings that are causing her mood shifts.


She would often be laughing with me about a silly joke or situation we found funny together, then suddenly burst into tears a few mins later and say she didnt feel good. I think with that dynamic in place of knowing at any time her mood could flip and being made to feel like i was the solution by her always saying "i need my Bxrrows" gave me some feeling of responsibilty over making sure she was always okay.

These mood shifts are described in the symptom "Rapid changes in mood, lasting usually only a few hours and rarely more than a few days"


With that all in mind I could see whenever we would meet or speak over the phone, that scared girl who needed me would show herself breifly before the nasty split personality came back to take control of her again. Knowing my girl was still inside of her deep down made me feel like there would be a time where she would see sense and reach out to reconsile all the wrong that had happened.

That scared little girl is always present.  People with a moderate to severe mental health illness, and BPD is such an illness.  The paradox of having a mental health illness is that they will lash out at the ones that they love the most.  I've seen this with my dAlzheimer's SM, I have also seen this with my dAN daughter, my wife, and in many other scenarios as I attend support groups that have similar dynamics.  It doesn't matter what the mental illness, if they cannot think rationally, they cannot reconcile all of the wrongs they have done, as they do not comprehend that they even did 'a wrong', I know this is the case for my wife.  In rare cases these individuals are lucent enough with enough self-awareness to make an attempt at reconciliation, my wife thought she did.  My wife attempted this; however, the explanations she gave for the 'wrongs' that I listed to her were truly baffling, especially the ones where she falsely accused me of having multiple affairs - her thought processes we're so neurodivergent (bat sh!t crazy) they were hard to comprehend.

So, even if you do manage to get her to make an attempt at reconciliation, it likely won't make any sense as it did in my case.

I know for my wife, she wants to so badly be seen as normal, that there is nothing wrong with her; yet, deep down inside she has come to accept there is something wrong with her.  So far we have dealt and addressed with the more obvious and readily recognized issues (suicide, physical abuse, yelling, raging, etc.); however, she lacks clarity on some of the less readily recognizable issues that are fueled by her run-away emotional feelings which result in less obvious psychological and verbal abuse - this is where I am at now with my wife, starting to address the less obvious issues which are present, but she is still in denial of.


So the past of being the fixer for her mood swings, seeing glimpses of that scared girl and just wanting her to be okay regardless of where that left us kept me checking her socials and looking when she was last active on whatsapp. Knowing that if she didnt go on whatsapp in the evening would mean the new guy shes seeing would be with her and the fact i had access to that information and couldnt stop myself from blocking and unblocking resulted in me needing her to block me so I simply had no way to check. I know its giving up power that she will use to fuel her but i honestly had no other choice if i wanted to move forward as for her i had no self control.

Just as another segment of information on the latest development on the situation since my last post. Currently I am blocked on all socials that we would typically comunicate on. However I am not blocked on twitter (x) and would from time to time open her page just to look at her profile pic and leave. On her twitter she only follows meme pages I showed her and myself, but I have noticed she started following a guy she used to work with who we previously had issues with.

According to https://www.happierhuman.com/codependent-traits/ one of the traits of being codependent is "Poor communication regarding feelings, wants, or needs."  Which is echoed in CoDO.org literature at https://coda.org/meeting-materials/service-materials/.  You have indicated that you are noticing a lot of what she does is following guys that you previously had issues with.  These are red and yellow flags to a normal person; however, a codependent person such as myself would often miss these flags, only to get burned a little later on with that person when they did something that would disrespect you.  Why she is following these guys, look at my explanation on my previous post about being abandoned as the foundational symptom of being borderline is "Desperate efforts to avoid abandonment (actual or imagined)".

My guess is that she chose to abandon you, so she can blame you for the breakup, before you could abandon her (it always feels better if you can dump some else before they can dump you, as you are the one in control of that in order to blame you for the issue versus accepting the shame of being the reason why the relationship ended).  Likewise, she monkey branched to these other guys, so she would not be abandoned.


For some context this same guy used to offer her lifts home that were completly out of his way and message her late at night, I told her that he was clearly into her and it made me uncomfrotable. After some back and forth, I told her I wanted her to block him because the late night chats did not stop after a couple of weeks of this going on. Eventually she did end up blocking him because it made me uncomfortable and she made it known that she understood why I felt the way I did so we moved forward.

These other guys were going out of their way to please her, so she imagined that you might be abandoning her as you gave her less attention than they did, from her perspective which is based solely on her feelings, and not the facts which would indicate otherwise (I am describing a subconscious thought process of the borderline, as they are too often not aware of this)


Fast forward to our break up, hes unblocked, added back onto socials and knowing now that hes on her twitter that she rarely ever uses, the signs all point towards him as the new guy she is seeing (i also know that the guy she is seeing was someone she used to work with which makes it make even more sense). This is all just a deduction of course and you might as me 'Bxrrows why do you even care?'. The point for me is that i understood she would have a subconcious back up in mind for when we did split as her cycle as always been like that with every ex, but its made me rethink a big portion of our relationship and was the situation a few months back cheating that I didnt even know about?

Its funny to me as well because she made a point numerous times to tell me how disgusting she found him and would always saw "eww hs is gross" when i would wind her up with jokes about him, following when she blocked him originally.

I see that you recognize the cycle.  I am validating that you have an accurate perception of this cycle, as I have described a similar one in this post and the previous one.  It is likely when in her mind that you no longer met her needs from some perceived slight that you might not even be aware of in which she devalued you, she looked to someone else with whom she can idolize. 

Borderlines (and other cluster-B) have what is commonly known as the ' narcissistic abuse cycle' that is described by the 2nd borderline symptom of "Unstable, intense relationships that alternate between idealizing and devaluing the other person"


Also a few days after we split, I asked her where she was and she told me she was home watching tv, she forgot I still had her location and i saw she went straight from work to a random house, so I called her and eventually she picked up. When confronted on the what I knew she had no answer and told me via text after hanging up that she was visiting a friend of hers who was a "40 year old man friend" (remember she is 22) who she sought advice from like a father figure. At the time I really had no reason to distrust her as to my knowledge she never lied to me and it fit some of the strange friendships with older people i knew she had already. Having my theory now about starting to see this guy from her work, im sure she was at his place instead of this 40 year old man as it was in a simular loaction to where she told me he lived in a previous conversation.

Hoping not to come across too arogarrogant by saying this but that guy from her work is 5'6, balding at 22, worse looking (im not exactly a diamond but hes like a 3/10) and makes less then half of my annual salary so to me knowing she has downgraded in every department gives me something to smile about.

Since I have come to realize things about borderlines, they are looking for stability in their ideal partner, someone who is older and can take care of them (even if they only have the physical appearance of this).  I am a fat but fit guy, about 100 pounds overweight that mountain bikes, SCUBA dives, etc. with male pattern baldness, I am always the heaviest guy there - yet I attract these hard body young females about 10-20 years younger than me.  While I get a boost in my self-esteem, I have no idea what drives these girls to almost throw themselves at me at times - my uBPDw has even seen two of these girls, whom i had never previously met do this to me. 

My theory on this is that they cannot find someone who would accept them as they are, so they must seek out people who would accept them for whom they are, and that means downgrading the partners physical appearance in exchange security in knowing that they won't leave them once the flags  come out, they also look for a good secure job in you.  They also naturally gravitate to those who are codependent, I know I have traits of being a fixer / caretaker.


Coming to this realisation now made me rethink a lot of things that happened leading up to us ending, if im right then she lied to me for a very long time about a lot of stuff and even though it changes nothing now, im having a lot of thoughts about things i previously never second guessed.

She probably did this, you caught her, she covered her tracks, and when it was over, she uncovered them.  Use this as a learning experience, so you don't repeat these mistakes on the next one.


If my theory about him being the guy is correct then the only logical reason for her wanting to be around him right now is for that possitive attention she gets to feed her narcassism as she hasnt been getting that from me becasue of our situation. Knowing it will eventually implode at some point from her inabilty to keep people around and that the foundation of whatever they have is built on the ruins of our relationship makes me happy. Im not a vindictive person at all but knowing how hard i fought for us get through our rough patch ended how it did, she will have no chance making anything last with anyone, let alone her rebound from work.

As I indicated the 'fear of abandonment' is the foundation for her 'wanting that positive attention' from her new guy, which is her new emotional supply.

Whether it's narcissism or being borderline they share many of the same traits, as both are on the cluster-B spectrum, and share minor nuances between the two.  I strongly suspect you are right, she will continue to have a series of unstable relationships.  The emotion I have is 'pity' for someone like that, as they cannot comprehend what they are doing to themselves, unless it reaches extremes (like suicide attempts) and only then can they get some clarity on what is going on with them, only to then realize that they indeed are the 'monster' as my wife has called herself on several occasions with me and our children.

I hope this gives you greater insight as to why your relationship failed.  It also explains, you will not likely get the closure you seek, as they are not rational.  I hope this aids in your understanding of the dynamic that is going on.

If you are unsure, and want additional clarification, I will attempt to explain from my understanding of the borderline mind.

As you are recovering from this relationship, and it will be much more impactful than a normal relationship ever was from the push-pull dynamic, be sure to do self-care whatever that looks like for you.

Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

I appreciate the time you put into trying to help me unerstand what is going on, im sure everyone on this site can relate to the fact that people that have not experienced a relationship with pwBPD do not really fully understand the feeling of this sort of fallout/conflict in their 'normal' relationships. So having a place like this to come and rant/read stories helps me get a better grip of my situation does more for me then speaking to family/friends who dont fully 'get it'.

I think you are correct with your statement about codependent traits even for myself, I was previously in a bad relationship and took 3 years of self sabotage with other people before i found my now ex with BPD. I noticed when i was in a relationship with both of these girls I would always put myself last as I felt like its my job to prioritise them and their job to prioritise me, so the fact both crumbled in simular ways is telling for how i treat relationships. When i am single, i am very self sufficient and always know people would be lucky to be with me. This might be something I have to look deeper into during my healing.

My guess is that she chose to abandon you, so she can blame you for the breakup, before you could abandon her (it always feels better if you can dump some else before they can dump you, as you are the one in control of that in order to blame you for the issue versus accepting the shame of being the reason why the relationship ended).  Likewise, she monkey branched to these other guys, so she would not be abandoned.

This part of your message stuck out to me, with her background this seems like the closest explaination to her thought process as I am going to realistically get. Things started to crumble for us when any stresses of her would be taken out on me because before she used to come to me with her problems and be childlike and upset. It might have been a change in something I did that i am unaware of that stopped her from opening up even though I did make active efforts to put time into making her feel like im her safe space and we could talk about anything.

Im guessing she started to mentally distance herself from me a little while before the breakup, ramped up her toxic behaviour and pushed my boundries until I gave her the reaction she wanted, or made a point to tell her things need to change. After that happened it gave her the out she was looking for and ultimatly we ended up splitting. She went off and started to go through her list of replacements until one took the bait and she kept me around pretending to work on things with me until things with them got more serious.

I just really wish she had the capacity to understand what has happened and the effect all of her actions had on me. We were a team and as soon as we got to the first hurdle in our relationship she made the choice to give up while I did my all to help push us forward. Really makes you think that nothing was real for her as i dont know how you can go from being utterly obsessed with me into in a new relationship within a couple oif weeks without a 2nd thought. All that being said is just BPD in a nutshell really.

I like to think she has moments where she would think about me/us and feel some type of way about it but again i do not think she has the capacity to do that. Shes got a new job, new guy around and less time to dwell on things so she might not even think about any of it. Im not 100% sure on how their mind works in terms of remorse and empathy as she showed very little though this whole process.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

I have read your most recent message.  I don't have time today to respond to it; however, I will make an effort later on in the week, Wed/Thurs to give you a full answer.

Take care.

[Bxrrows]

No problem, look forward to hearing more.

I have also been busy with christmas prep so I understand haha.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

I think you are correct with your statement about codependent traits even for myself, I was previously in a bad relationship and took 3 years of self sabotage with other people before i found my now ex with BPD. I noticed when i was in a relationship with both of these girls I would always put myself last as I felt like its my job to prioritise them and their job to prioritise me, so the fact both crumbled in simular ways is telling for how i treat relationships. When i am single, i am very self sufficient and always know people would be lucky to be with me. This might be something I have to look deeper into during my healing.

It sounds like you are very self-aware.  I know it took a bit for me to figure this out about myself, as I had a tendency to have variations of borderline women who aggressively pursued me even if I have had my wedding band on.  Simply put, "I attract CRAZY" - the common denominator was me, and I needed to figure out why - and apparently, according to my therapist, it is being codependent.  Speaking of therapists, do you have one, if not, I strongly suspect you may benefit from one, especially if it is covered by insurance - let me know if you are not and I can point you in several low-cost or even free direction to explore this about yourself.

My guess is that she chose to abandon you, so she can blame you for the breakup, before you could abandon her (it always feels better if you can dump some else before they can dump you, as you are the one in control of that in order to blame you for the issue versus accepting the shame of being the reason why the relationship ended).  Likewise, she monkey branched to these other guys, so she would not be abandoned.

This part of your message stuck out to me, with her background this seems like the closest explaination to her thought process as I am going to realistically get. Things started to crumble for us when any stresses of her would be taken out on me because before she used to come to me with her problems and be childlike and upset. It might have been a change in something I did that i am unaware of that stopped her from opening up even though I did make active efforts to put time into making her feel like im her safe space and we could talk about anything.

I am no longer my wife's safe space.  When she painted me black, she was the one who started with the divorce threats, and when I took them seriously to set aside a divorce attorney retainer fee, all of a sudden I am the bad guy who cannot be trusted for responding to her initial believable threat in an appropriate manner.  Once this 'trust' is lost, it is next to impossible to get it back.

I will comment on your 'childlike' comment, as it is believed that borderline's emotional development pretty much stop when they are a child, usually through some trauma that occurred in their FOO (family of origin).


Im guessing she started to mentally distance herself from me a little while before the breakup, ramped up her toxic behaviour and pushed my boundaries until I gave her the reaction she wanted, or made a point to tell her things need to change. After that happened it gave her the out she was looking for and ultimatly we ended up splitting. She went off and started to go through her list of replacements until one took the bait and she kept me around pretending to work on things with me until things with them got more serious.

That sounds like a very plausible theory, and I personally believe it to be true, for the exception of the pretending part - going back to the childlike aspect, she was probably genuinely trying to work on it from her point of view, even though from our point of view it was pretending.


I just really wish she had the capacity to understand what has happened and the effect all of her actions had on me. We were a team and as soon as we got to the first hurdle in our relationship she made the choice to give up while I did my all to help push us forward. Really makes you think that nothing was real for her as i dont know how you can go from being utterly obsessed with me into in a new relationship within a couple oif weeks without a 2nd thought. All that being said is just BPD in a nutshell really.

Most borderlines have no capacity, some have limited capacity and their perception is very skewed.  They do not want to be alone, so the follow-on relationship will happened overly fast, too fast as you witnessed first hand.


I like to think she has moments where she would think about me/us and feel some type of way about it but again i do not think she has the capacity to do that. Shes got a new job, new guy around and less time to dwell on things so she might not even think about any of it. Im not 100% sure on how their mind works in terms of remorse and empathy as she showed very little though this whole process.

Bxrrows, be careful what you wish for, she will think of you from time to time, I've had two other borderlines attempt a recycle (exgf, and more recently an ex-therapist who used me as her own therapist/mentor and said she was BPD but recanted later on) months down the road for each.  Since you are on the detaching board, I will recommend, if and when this happens, not to engage, no matter how tempting this might be, as it will never get any better.  However, I have never met a borderline capable of showing genuine remorse, they all think they are empathic and can read emotions remarkably well, more so than most people, which will feel like empathy, but they do not understand the feelings accurately as their reasoning is very skewed, so it is not true empathy.

I hope you have gained some better understanding, let me know if you have any additional questions.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

I think you are correct with your statement about codependent traits even for myself, I was previously in a bad relationship and took 3 years of self sabotage with other people before i found my now ex with BPD. I noticed when i was in a relationship with both of these girls I would always put myself last as I felt like its my job to prioritise them and their job to prioritise me, so the fact both crumbled in simular ways is telling for how i treat relationships. When i am single, i am very self sufficient and always know people would be lucky to be with me. This might be something I have to look deeper into during my healing.

It sounds like you are very self-aware.  I know it took a bit for me to figure this out about myself, as I had a tendency to have variations of borderline women who aggressively pursued me even if I have had my wedding band on.  Simply put, "I attract CRAZY" - the common denominator was me, and I needed to figure out why - and apparently, according to my therapist, it is being codependent.  Speaking of therapists, do you have one, if not, I strongly suspect you may benefit from one, especially if it is covered by insurance - let me know if you are not and I can point you in several low-cost or even free direction to explore this about yourself.

I like to try and take my own emotion out of things and think logically when it comes to things like this, I understand emotions can cloud logical thinking and i am someone who feels the need to understand every aspect of these sorts of situations. It does get to a stage of being unhealthy which i know i need to work on but in this situation I need to give myself answers that she is unable to.

I have 2 days out of the 7 that are hellish at the moment. I am able to focus on other things for the most part to keep myself busy knowing that time is the only thing that will help with these feelings, but those 2 days i am completly engulfed with sadness and all i want to do is have reach out hoping she wants to reconcile. During one of my bad days this week i did end up applying for therapy through the NHS (I am from the UK so free healthcare) and have an appointment 2 weeks into the new year to get that moving. I am hoping this helps with figuring out my emotions as I do feel depressed currently and have been suffering from what I think might be insomnia. I keep myself busy but as soon as I am alone and try to sleep I find myself going over everything 1000 times and cannot think about anything else but her.

I do want to think that she was trying in her own way but now the clouds of trying to fix things have parted for me, she was just telling me she felt nothing and she was very numb during the whole process while I did all the talking. I would have to bombard her with questions in order to get a better understanding of what was going through her head as she could never find the words for me or seemed like even she understood what she was feeling. I really want to feel like she was trying but the only time she would be compasionate was at obscure, random  times that I suspect was after she had been doing something with this new guy and felt some form of way about knowing I was stil trying to work on things. It could have been anything from face time calls, having sex or him meeting her family, whatever they were doing was in my opinion the reason she was being reminiscent with me sporadicly which gave me false hope that we were working things out.

Bxrrows, be careful what you wish for, she will think of you from time to time, I've had two other borderlines attempt a recycle (exgf, and more recently an ex-therapist who used me as her own therapist/mentor and said she was BPD but recanted later on) months down the road for each.  Since you are on the detaching board, I will recommend, if and when this happens, not to engage, no matter how tempting this might be, as it will never get any better.  However, I have never met a borderline capable of showing genuine remorse, they all think they are empathic and can read emotions remarkably well, more so than most people, which will feel like empathy, but they do not understand the feelings accurately as their reasoning is very skewed, so it is not true empathy.

In a way knowing that im not completly out of her mind is something that I would like. I dont want to be just another person who she can toss aside without a 2nd thought as I do feel like I was different to the rest and was her first relationship that went on for an extended period of time problem free. She treated me poorly for an entire month before we split as I was not accepting being her punching bag anymore as I told myself it wil be get better with time and when it didnt I gave her an ultimatum that broke us up. I know she has most likely made up reasons to her new guy and her family about why i was awful, which will be completly fabricated and come from me now being painted black, but I hope she is not telling these lies and convincing herself that is reality. Her entire wardrobe I brought her, she has endless reminders scattered around her room from dried out flower petals in a jars, ornimants, teddy bears and a whole shoe box of train tickets we had from dates she wanted to keep. Assuming she has not already thrown all those momentos out I do hope she thinks about me with something other then hatred just because I put boundries in place.

The 27th marks a month of no contact for us but I am stupidly hopeful for her to unblock me and reach out to me for either christmas or new years as this was around the time when we started dating last year but I know in reality I am not going to hear from her for a while if ever without some motivation from my side. In the middle of January in the new year, if I do not hear anything from her or her family, my close friend who knows her will be reaching out to her directly for an update on the money she owes me (i know i have already accepted I am unlikely to see it but I was told I would hear something by that point so will look into it) and I think the plan is to get her to reach out to me directly as I dont want her to be able to avoid the mess she has made by going through other people. In a petty way if things have developed with this new guy I low key want to put a bit of stress on that relation as well, it may be childish but I am just doing my be to be honest on these posts.

I apprecaite everyones insight so far and will keep giving updates as time goes forward. Happy Holidays to all and hope to hear more of your advice <3

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

I like to try and take my own emotion out of things and think logically when it comes to things like this, I understand emotions can cloud logical thinking and i am someone who feels the need to understand every aspect of these sorts of situations. It does get to a stage of being unhealthy which i know i need to work on but in this situation I need to give myself answers that she is unable to.

I agree, being emotional will cloud things, and even if you think you have taken emotion out of it, it is still there.  I have recorded my pwBPD when she is having her episodes.  When she is away, I listen to them to figure out what the dynamic is going on, and I find that I too become quite emotional (albeit cool and calm) and missed the nuances of her emotional swing, until it was too late.  So, I now know what to look for as far as a preliminary mood swing starts, I have a greater chance of not triggering her all the way.  It is kind of like being on an icy road, going down a hill, you can tell with things that are starting to slip, and to stop, before she looses it and falls down the hill.


I have 2 days out of the 7 that are hellish at the moment. I am able to focus on other things for the most part to keep myself busy knowing that time is the only thing that will help with these feelings, but those 2 days i am completly engulfed with sadness and all i want to do is have reach out hoping she wants to reconcile. During one of my bad days this week i did end up applying for therapy through the NHS (I am from the UK so free healthcare) and have an appointment 2 weeks into the new year to get that moving. I am hoping this helps with figuring out my emotions as I do feel depressed currently and have been suffering from what I think might be insomnia. I keep myself busy but as soon as I am alone and try to sleep I find myself going over everything 1000 times and cannot think about anything else but her.

Public health is a good thing; however, I do believe they may limit the number of visits.  I am a strong advocate of therapy; however, between your appointments, visit here and other support groups for additional help.  I do know in Germany, the therapists are too overworked in their public health, you can only see them every 3-4 months, when ideally it should be once per week.

I too find have found my mind racing, and cannot think of anything else, for me this was more than a year, every waking hour of every day - it seem obsessive compulsive in the thinking to wrap one's mind around the problem and come up with a solution to a seemingly impossible problem.  The best I have come up with is to use some manipulation to nudge her in a good direction, and to change my communication with her.


I do want to think that she was trying in her own way but now the clouds of trying to fix things have parted for me, she was just telling me she felt nothing and she was very numb during the whole process while I did all the talking. I would have to bombard her with questions in order to get a better understanding of what was going through her head as she could never find the words for me or seemed like even she understood what she was feeling. I really want to feel like she was trying but the only time she would be compasionate was at obscure, random  times that I suspect was after she had been doing something with this new guy and felt some form of way about knowing I was stil trying to work on things. It could have been anything from face time calls, having sex or him meeting her family, whatever they were doing was in my opinion the reason she was being reminiscent with me sporadicly which gave me false hope that we were working things out.

Borderlines have the emotional capacity of a young child, their thought processes have not matured to the point like an adult, so they don't know what they are thinking, and if they do, it does not make sense to an adult's perspective.  They have the basic, primeval instincts; love/sex and hate/cold shoulder with a lot of impulsivity of a small child; however, they lack the more refined emotions like self-reflection, remorse and empathy, even though they can read emotions remarkably well wich will give the illusion of empathy.




In a way knowing that im not completly out of her mind is something that I would like. I dont want to be just another person who she can toss aside without a 2nd thought as I do feel like I was different to the rest and was her first relationship that went on for an extended period of time problem free.

Nobody wants to be tossed aside.  She will think of you not unlike a preschooler will think of a former friend that did something to upset them.  She will toss you aside just as easy as a preschooler can toss aside their playmate at daycare.


She treated me poorly for an entire month before we split as I was not accepting being her punching bag anymore as I told myself it will be get better with time and when it didnt I gave her an ultimatum that broke us up.

I have told my wife on numerous times not to use me as her emotional 'punching bag'.  I told her I would be a shoulder to cry on, though.  It does not get better with time, in fact the opposite is generally true, UNLESS she is self-aware of her actions, even if in a very illogical way, like mine does.


I know she has most likely made up reasons to her new guy and her family about why i was awful, which will be completly fabricated and come from me now being painted black, but I hope she is not telling these lies and convincing herself that is reality. Her entire wardrobe I brought her, she has endless reminders scattered around her room from dried out flower petals in a jars, ornimants, teddy bears and a whole shoe box of train tickets we had from dates she wanted to keep. Assuming she has not already thrown all those momentos out I do hope she thinks about me with something other then hatred just because I put boundries in place.

She will have changed her facts to what you will know as a false narrative in order to match her feelings.  I can only comment on my uBPD/uNPD-exgf who ruminated on prior relationships (my current uBPD/uOCPDw doesn't do this with her previous relationships, she is very secretive on this), prior to me, she thought about them alot, all of the good that they did for her, and would compare them to me (why wasn't she with them though, I would eventually find out later when she monkey-branched to another).  They will think of you; however, not the way you would like to be thought of. 


The 27th marks a month of no contact for us but I am stupidly hopeful for her to unblock me and reach out to me for either christmas or new years as this was around the time when we started dating last year but I know in reality I am not going to hear from her for a while if ever without some motivation from my side.

I am sorry for this, I know you miss her.  However, you had to put up boundaries.  Perhaps write down a list of the positive and negatives of the relationship, in order to help you move forward.  If she does reach out to you in the next few days, you need to have a pretty good idea on how you want to handle this.  Do you want to be back with her, knowing if she does not have any idea of her issues and it will likely get worse - do you want to be treated the same again or worse?  Do what is best for you.


In the middle of January in the new year, if I do not hear anything from her or her family, my close friend who knows her will be reaching out to her directly for an update on the money she owes me (i know i have already accepted I am unlikely to see it but I was told I would hear something by that point so will look into it) and I think the plan is to get her to reach out to me directly as I dont want her to be able to avoid the mess she has made by going through other people. In a petty way if things have developed with this new guy I low key want to put a bit of stress on that relation as well, it may be childish but I am just doing my be to be honest on these posts.

Perhaps, make January, the last time you intentionally reach out to her, and then leave it alone.  I also hear you about putting stress on her new relationship - I did that for my replacement, anonymously, I probably saved that guy a lot of heartache; however, she found someone else after him, so it is a losing battle.  My advice, is she will do the same thing to him as she did for you, she will likely not learn, and she will never find peace.  You owe it to yourself to end this rumination, and move forward as you deserve better.


I apprecaite everyones insight so far and will keep giving updates as time goes forward. Happy Holidays to all and hope to hear more of your advice <3

I look forward to your updates.  Happy holidays to you too.  I will be offline starting Christmas eve until Friday.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

I tried to give myself some time away from this thread and focus on christmas with my family but everything still came back to this situation. I have ups and downs like normal but i do feel them getting less intense at time moves forward which im hopinhg will steadily deplete over time. My only worry at the moment is the small amount of progress i have made over the past month of no contact will be reset when I reach out in 2 weeks about money I am owed. This coupled with our anniversary being the 6th of Jan I hope it will not be as rough as I think it might be.

She didnt break no contact over christmas and I very highly doubt I will hear anything tonight for NYE so my next post will either confirm that or I will have a story about a conversation we have.

I have found myself looking over old messages more so during christmas and thinking of good times we had in the past. While these memories are still upseting knowing they are gone, I do not look at them with nearly as much emotion as I did a few weeks ago so I guess thats a sign of progress. I know that the things I am feeling sad about are more so about the plans of our future being torn apart along with the idea of what we could have been disapearing so suddenly.

I  know she does care for me even if her actions towards the end and post break up didnt show it. I remember that she did make comments to tell me during our relationship about how being with someone makes her BPD flare up. I think back now and wonder if I should have taken those comments more seriously but also think that it was out of my control. It does not matter on my actions or efforts to help her, its an ongoing feeling that she will either have to get comfortable with in relationships or run for the hills.

Its not been the healthiest coping mechanism but I do regularly check up on her social medias every few days on an alternate account. She has not posted anything since she posted her POV at a bar 3 weeks ago. She was never much of a person to post things regularly anyway but I have found some comfort in knowing she is not blasting her life online as seeing it will hurt me and it also gives me piece of mind that if she was in a relationship with this guy then she would want to post it just like she did with me.

After doing some research on attatchment styles I feel like she also fits a dismissive avoidant style as a lot of people with BPD show simularaties with. She is able to shut her emotions down and move on to an emotionless situationship as she gets the validation physically and emotionally that distract her from fallout of our relationship. While i think she is cold and does not care, in reality she is in a hightened state of fear and put a brick wall up around her feelings. Over time these people will start to feel safe again emotionally and begin to feel everything they put off during the initial relief stage post break up which is typically where the recycling phase comes in as they finally tackle what has happened. Until that happens I am sure she will be involved with someone so I guess if I want any genuine remorse or reconcile it will not happen for a while.

Maybe I am using that as a way to cope with things but it seems logical to me so your thoughts are apprecaited. Wishing you all a happy new year.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

   It sounds like your time away from this thread was a bit of self-care for you, it is not healthy to obsessively ruminate on the past. 

   I would suggest on using coping methods when dealing with the money you are owed, and what would have been your upcoming 1st year anniversary.  If you mentally prepare for this, you can do hypothetical 'what if' type scenarios in your mind, that way you will be better equipped to handle these when they happen.

Since you didn't have any messages from her for Christmas, and I am assuming NYE/D either since we have not heard from you, she is looking forward to her impulsive ways.  It is good that when you look at her old messages, while still upsetting, they do not have as much impact on you as they did before as time marches on, and sooner or later it will become a more distant memory.

Regarding her comments on being BPD - they have all or nothing thinking.  Hindsight is always clearer than when you are in the thick of things.  If she shared with you that she is BPD, then looking back you could have done more to learn about it; however, this is now in the past. 

I'm glad that you recognize secretly following her on social media is not the healthiest coping mechanism.  Consider weaning yourself from this as time moves forward, as no good can come of being stuck in the past especially if she is posting about your replacement.  I am glad she is not engaging in a smear campaign as so many of them do, either to smear it in your face, or smear it for everyone to see.

Regarding how she will behave in the future - her past behaviors should be a pretty good indicator of her future behaviors.  I think your assessment is pretty good, just be mindful of how she is feeling and try not to trigger yourself and/or her if and when you happen to interact with her again.

Be sure to do some self-care, and take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

It is not specifically this thread that hurts me but I do find myself coming here to post when I have my darker days as posting does seem to help me process my emotions. I do think i subconciously group this thread with those feelings for that exact reason so a detox is sometimes helpful time to time.

What would have been 1 year anniversary, is in 2 days now and i dont feel like i will be too upset about it knowing that it would have only been our first and we would not have anything specific to look back on as popping the question was relativly uneventful. The harder part will be the plans we would have had as we did mention booking a trip over that weekend to celebrate.

Since you didn't have any messages from her for Christmas, and I am assuming NYE/D either since we have not heard from you, she is looking forward to her impulsive ways.  It is good that when you look at her old messages, while still upsetting, they do not have as much impact on you as they did before as time marches on, and sooner or later it will become a more distant memory.

What did you mean with the part about "she is looking forward to her impulsive ways"? You are correct though, i did not hear anything new years day either as I expected and she has not posted anything on social media in a while, not even through christmas or nye. The fact I did not hear anything on either of those dates tells me that our anniversary will be no different, I am not expecting anything at all but still feel like I will be disappointed when I hear nothing. I was thinking maybe I do something for myself on that date as a self care treat to get through it with ease.

I am still having my dark days as I expect but i almost feel euphoric after them, every bad day I have seems to push me forward to care a lot less about everything and accept my life for what it is now. I am currently between work and have been since a little before the break up so it has kind of been the focal point of my life as I did not have anything to distract me.

I also do not remember if i mentioned before but I did actually have a stress induced seizure following the start of no contact as a mix of neglecting my health with food and water across a few days, along with the stress from everything overwhelming me. I was out for about 30 mins and hospitalised overnight. I did reach out to her sister to inform her and my ex of my health but heard nothing from my ex apart from a phone call at 1am a week later saying she felt bad for how shes been treating me. I mentioned my seizure and she asked about it as if it was a small event or an after thought. Still processing how after a year together the fact i almost died was not something she showed much concern for. I get her being detatched from me as a partner but as a human i thought she would have shown more concern.

In 2 weeks time I will be breaking our almost 2 months of no contact to enquire about the money she owes. She herself told me she would be reaching out about it along with her mother echoing the same sentiment but i have no faith in either of them. If i hear nothing in the next 2 weeks I will be reaching out about it. I want her to have to deal with me directly as I dont want her mum to be her middleman to help her avoid responsibilty, i want her to face her mess after the way she has treated me. I got her to block me on text and all the social media we used to mainly comunicate on. My plan was for my friend to reach out to her and ask her what the best way for me to contact her about the money would be. Im not sure what the best play would be in order to get her to interact with me directly without giving up the power of getting things to be done the way she wants to when in reality, she owes me so it should be on my terms.

Any contact we have would not be to rekindle anything, it would be purely about the money. If she took it upon herself to develop the conversation further, i would be open to it and would do my best to act warm to not trigger her or me.

Thoughts on how to handle breaking no contact would be very helpful as I am having 2nd thoughts about the best way to approach this.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

What would have been 1 year anniversary, is in 2 days now and i dont feel like i will be too upset about it knowing that it would have only been our first and we would not have anything specific to look back on as popping the question was relativly uneventful. The harder part will be the plans we would have had as we did mention booking a trip over that weekend to celebrate.

I hope you didn't make any reservations, and if you did you were able to refund it.  If it is too late for a refund, move the date a few months out, and then try for a refund a few days later after you move the date.  I can see how this will be quite painful for you in 2 days time.  Perhaps, make other plans to distract you from this.  I agree with you since she did not reach out to you on Christmas nor NYE/D she will likely not contact you on the 1 yr anniversary either. 


What did you mean with the part about "she is looking forward to her impulsive ways"?
My error, sometimes my cursor jumps (me hitting the touchpad on the laptop) so I mistyped it, and didn't proof it enough, and the 'edit' feature has not yet returned after the hack last year and the post/preview button are close together and was unable to edit.


I also do not remember if i mentioned before but I did actually have a stress induced seizure following the start of no contact as a mix of neglecting my health with food and water across a few days, along with the stress from everything overwhelming me. I was out for about 30 mins and hospitalised overnight. I did reach out to her sister to inform her and my ex of my health but heard nothing from my ex apart from a phone call at 1am a week later saying she felt bad for how shes been treating me. I mentioned my seizure and she asked about it as if it was a small event or an after thought. Still processing how after a year together the fact i almost died was not something she showed much concern for. I get her being detatched from me as a partner but as a human i thought she would have shown more concern.

I couldn't find where you mentioned a seizure specifically.  I am sorry you had such a severe reaction to the NC - I had one and only panic attack once I realized my wife was a borderline after my therapist gave me a book that described my wife way too well - what happened to you sounds way scarier.  Perhaps the part of how you almost died when you had a seizure was not clearly communicated to her, even though it is too late to change this, perhaps if she does ever reach out to you again, give her some grace as most people do not equate a seizure to a near death experience.  I hope you are fully recovered from your seizure as that sounds quite serious, be sure to take care of yourself.


In 2 weeks time I will be breaking our almost 2 months of no contact to enquire about the money she owes. She herself told me she would be reaching out about it along with her mother echoing the same sentiment but i have no faith in either of them. If i hear nothing in the next 2 weeks I will be reaching out about it. I want her to have to deal with me directly as I dont want her mum to be her middleman to help her avoid responsibilty, i want her to face her mess after the way she has treated me. I got her to block me on text and all the social media we used to mainly comunicate on. My plan was for my friend to reach out to her and ask her what the best way for me to contact her about the money would be. Im not sure what the best play would be in order to get her to interact with me directly without giving up the power of getting things to be done the way she wants to when in reality, she owes me so it should be on my terms.

As I and others indicated previously, don't expect her to pay anything back.  If you do receive payment it will be a pleasant surprise.  I know my exgf, who owed me $50k in 2000 was unable to pay any of the unsecured loans I gave her back - I took the loss and I was free and clear of her and didn't have to deal with her any more, at the time I could afford that hit in my wallet, and chalked it up to an expensive lesson to learn.

If you insist on contacting her for the money, I am not sure the best way is, unless you have written documentation that she owes you this money, consider it a loss.  If you do have documentation, a small claims court (if available) would be the way to go if your friend idea does not work and you are only interested in 'purely' recovering your money that is owed to you.

Thoughts on how to handle breaking no contact would be very helpful as I am having 2nd thoughts about the best way to approach this.

Since you are blocked on everything, calling her on your friend's phone, might be the way to go.  But please do not expect anything good to come of this.

Take care.  Do some self-care, as I do not wish for you to have another stress induced seizure.

SD

[once removed]

Im not sure what the best play would be in order to get her to interact with me directly without giving up the power of getting things to be done the way she wants to when in reality, she owes me so it should be on my terms.
...
i want her to face her mess after the way she has treated me.

Bxrrows,

i spent a lot of time in the aftermath of my relationship trying to create closure on my terms. wanting my belongings back. wanting my ex to feel regret for the way she treated me. i never got those belongings, and while ill never know what her process was like, i never got her to face anything.

the hard thing is that breakups just dont usually play out in a way that is most favorable to us and our feelings.

getting your belongings, or saying your piece, isnt going to resolve the hurt that youre feeling. even if she were to acknowledge your wounds and apologize for them, it wouldnt change the circumstances.

think about what it is you want to accomplish here, first and foremost.

is your ultimate priority getting your belongings? then forcing a confrontation is not likely to achieve that. and you should know that trying may result in a lot of prolonged attachment and frustration if it doesnt occur.

is your ultimate priority confronting her with your pain? consider what it is you want to say. try putting it to paper, and sitting on it for a while. if you decide you want to send it, you can, any time.

Im not sure what the best play would be in order to get her to interact with me directly without giving up the power

i wouldnt recommend approaching this as a power battle. thats just a continuation of the conflict from the relationship...just keeps us attached to the wounds.

post breakup navigation can be tricky. you dont want to do anything youre gonna regret, or kick yourself for, or anything thats just going to prolong detaching.

[Bxrrows]

Thanks for the replies guys, i love seeing other peoples views on these things to give me better ideas of approaches.

You are right though SD, she does not know the severity of my seizure as I did not even know myself until I was recovering as my family did not want to stress me out more then I already was. After I found out that it could have een life thretening we had begun no contact and did not have the chance to inform her. I have fully recovered from it now and it was a combination of dehydration, not eating and stress that made my body give out. That was enough to tell me I needed to take a step back and start taking care of myself better. I think if our conversation warrents bringing up the seizure then I will let her know about the details but feel like it adds nothing to the current circumstances at this point in time, even though I want her to know.

To clear up things that might have been misinterpreted from my previous posts. The money she owes was something that I have already mentally departed with and do not expect to see a penny of it. However, this money was owed to me from our vacation we booked in July and we broke up a week after we returned from this vacation in October. From July until October she payed me a sum every month and payed off half in that time, after the break up happened she also lost her job and told me that even though we had broken up and she lost her job, when she gets a new one she will pay me the rest of the money owed. She managed to get a job in December and her mum told me a few weeks ago the payments will start back up in January until we are straight.

While I do not think I will see the money and know January is a tight month for everyone financially, I was told that I would hear something in the new year and if I do not hear anything I will reach out just before the 20th, to make sure that when she is payed from work in the following 10 days she knows that a payment is due to go to me. Its also a way for me to break no contact and see how she will react now we are out of the toxic cycle we had post break up. I am not looking for closure as I have given myself that through my own deduction but if she did want to move the conversation to more then just money I would be open to seeing what she has to say as I have said everything I need to for the most part. None of the chat from my side will be anything other then 'purely business'.

I feel like she went into a relief stage after the no contact started so she has had 2 months to see other people and not have the stress of our situation knocking on the door mentally everyday. I would like her to be at a point know where she is curious about me and maybe even ask how I am and devlop the conversation past the basics of what we need to speak about. I have no reason to reach out other then to follow up on what I was told from her before we started no contact.

Also where i mentioned about giving up power, i know pwBPD typically like to be in control and I almost feel like the fact im reaching out will be mistaken for me making a play to win her back or something when all i want is an update on the money. This is why i feel my wording and approach should be something I think through before attempting to contact her. Of course I would love nothing more then for her to gush over me and beg for me back but I know that will not happen ontop of the fact that I dont think I even want her anymore. The last time we had contact I was a pathetic mess who gave off the impression that i needed her to survive, when now I am much better mentally and have come to terms with her being this different person who i do not recognise.

is your ultimate priority getting your belongings? then forcing a confrontation is not likely to achieve that. and you should know that trying may result in a lot of prolonged attachment and frustration if it doesnt occur.

I am not looking for a confrontation, i just want her to have to converse with me directly about what we need to speak about. I also know that whatever guy she is with at the moment will see her talking to her ex and I hope it puts some form of strain on whatever they have as well. She has a tendancy to get her mother to handle things for her, such as doctors appointments and things so I feel like she will try to palm the money talks with me to her mum instead of doing it herself. It might sound petulant but I do have animosity from how she treated me towards the end/following our break up so creating drama or causing some stress this way is something I would like to do.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for sharing your explanation.

   While having curiosity about your ex is natural, you are also tempting fate if you communicate beyond BIFF on the matter - there is a chance to reconnect as a borderline personality when in the love bombing mode is exceptionally seductive and intoxicating.

   Use wise-mind when contacting her, keep it purely focused on the money/belongings - keep your distance unless you want to fall back into that trap.  Is it possible to have someone hold you accountable?

   Good luck, and take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

All of this is obviously speculation as I dont even know if she will be contacting me about everything or try and speak to me via my friend or her mother. I just want to be ready for a conversation if it does go the way i intend. I will also not be going outside of the purpose I am reaching out about in the first place unless she moves it other ways and will maintain BIFF during the conversation.

After I gave her the ultimatum that ended up with us breaking up, she knew I was taking it a lot harder than her and did constantly ask if I was okay, where I usually responded 'terrible' or 'awful' which i now have second thoughts about saying. I am hopeful if/when we do next interact she would be curious enough to check in on how I have been doing or reopen communication. Main reason being I am not entirely sure on what the best approach should be if this happens. Should i say how the break up almost killed me and i have since spiraled into a depression that required me to check into therapy (not in this way obviously). Or do i portray myself as someone who is doing a lot better recently and say positive things going on in my life? Both of these are true, but coming back to the power dynamic, should i give her more ammo to get some sick validation out of how much suffering I have been doing or should i come across in a way that lets her know that, she no longer being such an integral part of my life is a good thing and im better off without her.

I know what i say should be based on what I want to get from the conversation but I am not entirely sure on my own intentions at this point as I typically post here when i am feeling more sappy before bed as I am right now. I want her to give me any sign, no matter how small that she does care for me in some way. I just like to think she would be curious and think about me from time to time as it has almost been 2 months no contact the relief stage for her might be nearing the end. 

As an extension of that, I was the one who asked her to block me on social media and my number because the month following I would still talk to her almost everyday and couldnt control myself, even when i knew it was time to stop. Maybe she has not reached out since to honour my request of needing no contact to heal? Maybe she does feel some type of way about everything and is waiting for me to make the first move to reconnect? Or maybe im hopelessly optimistic and still try to see the good in someone who time and time again showed that i will never be enough?

Sorry for the blabbering post but these are my thoughts on things tonight.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

   Thanks for responding back.

   Previously you indicated you had an appointment to start therapy for the 2nd week of January, is this still on?

   I am going to highlight a lot of what you said...

I know what i say should be based on what I want to get from the conversation but I am not entirely sure on my own intentions at this point as I typically post here when i am feeling more sappy before bed as I am right now. I want her to give me any sign, no matter how small that she does care for me in some way. I just like to think she would be curious and think about me from time to time as it has almost been 2 months no contact the relief stage for her might be nearing the end. 

As an extension of that, I was the one who asked her to block me on social media and my number because the month following I would still talk to her almost everyday and couldnt control myself, even when i knew it was time to stop. Maybe she has not reached out since to honour my request of needing no contact to heal? Maybe she does feel some type of way about everything and is waiting for me to make the first move to reconnect? Or maybe im hopelessly optimistic and still try to see the good in someone who time and time again showed that i will never be enough?

No worries on the blabbering you are letting your feelings surface on this matter and it can be good to vent.

I think it is pretty clear that you have a lot of unresolved issues where you feel the need to be validated for your efforts into this relationship by this young lady.  I would highly recommend sharing that in your upcoming therapy appointment in order to get a deeper understanding of this.

In any event, I wish you the best of luck in trying to get this resolved in the next week or two.  However, if you cannot, please be kind to yourself, and 'let it go', as it will be increasingly unlikely if you will have the closure that you desire on this relationship.

Please be sure to do self-care in order to take your mind to a healthier place.

Take care.

SD

[once removed]

but coming back to the power dynamic, should i give her more ammo to get some sick validation out of how much suffering I have been doing or should i come across in a way that lets her know that, she no longer being such an integral part of my life is a good thing and im better off without her.

Bxrrows, the power dynamic ends when the relationship does.

there is no power any longer, to be gained, or to be lost. accepting that is the first step in detaching; otherwise, youre just battling with your wounds.

what would the authentic Bxrrows do?

[Bxrrows]

So my therapy assessment is on the 16th of January so i will be evaluated and then told about the next steps for what will happen. This will also be around the same time I plan to reach out so I will see if they have any advice for me reaching out during that meeting.

After spending so much time fighting for us post break up and processing everything during no contact I realised that from the day we offically split I was given nothing. No indication of deeper problems her side of why she feels no reason for us to make amends. No real feelings about the situation just pure numbness and until this day I still have nothing from her. I would just have to ask 1000 questions until she gave me a yes about being on the right track. This lead me to create my own answers/closure for my questions, looking more into BPD and attatchment styles to get a better understanding of what happened as she was clearly not giving me it.

I might have mentioned this previously but when no contact began it was because I gave her a call when I was having a bad night, it was just to tell her I loved her. But she ignored my call and had a guy over who she was sleeping with in our bed. This broke me and she told me over text the next morning "she is sorry i am having a bad time, she cares about me a lot but i need to move on and heal, she is sort of seeing someone so you just need to move on". This prompted a phone call where she told me she only started seeing him a week ago but she really likes him and he has already met her nieces/family, which was the thing we used to do every weekend together during our relationship. I was obviously heartbroken as I was under the impression we were trying to work things out still and didnt understand how she could move on so to sleeping with a new person so quickly but to introduce him to her family after only speaking for a week was the hardest part. Obviously I know now it had to be going on longer then a week for things to esculate that far but if anything that makes things worse because at that point we had only been offically broken up for around 3 weeks so it would have been instantly or an overlap in our relationship. This event was what has done the most damage to me, I can handle someone treating me poorly and being bitter/hateful towards the end of a relationship but for her to do this was so painful.

She did tell me when we broke up she wanted to be on her own and 'work on herself', but with her new 'lover' being involved with her family and her telling me how she liked him a lot, I feel like she had started building something more meaningful then just a hook up with this guy for a distraction. The weird part is, she is pretty active to post on social media during a relationship and posted me a little before I even became offical with her. However, she has not posted anything of the 2 of them anywhere nor has she posted any stories, her social media is scarce for stories apart from one selfie upload at the start of december. Would this indicate she is just in a rebound like I thought it was?

Regardless of if the guy she was with when we went into no contact is still in the picture or not she cannot be alone, so I suspect if this guy is gone she has already found another person to take his place as she did with me. I have also noticed recently signs of being unblocked and reblocked as her profile pics have updated for me that she changed a number of weeks ago. I thought this only occurs after youve been unblocked but I might be wrong.

For me I am hoping our conversation about money can evolve into her giving me a better idea of what happened from her side, I am not sure how much good this will do me as it might only reopen wounds I have been working on healing but even to get the slightest idea of what went on in her head I feel would benefit me right now. She did mention she doesn't love me anymore during our post break up arguments but she also kept saying "its too far gone" whenever I would give an idea for a plan to get back on track. I am thinking now this might have been because she was sleeping with this guy a while before I knew and she felt some form of guilt about getting back with me knowing what she had been doing. After this contact attempt I will be suggesting a payment plan getting set up for fixed amounts each month to limit contact but wil be sticking to BIFF as best I can.

I will be bringing this up in therapy when it starts but for now this is my best release when it comes to getting my thoughts out. I apprecaite you all as always. Any thoughts on this stuff does a lot to help.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows

   Thank you for coming back and sharing some more.

   I will keep this one brief and limit my response, as you have a therapy session in a few days time on the 16th and most of your 1000 questions can be better answered there.  I would encourage you to go into therapy with your questions.

   Circling back to your ex, now that you have share a bit more, it is clear to me that she has deliberately moved on with the new guy, a new 'toy' so to speak, and if you continue to ruminate on this is will become increasingly painful to yourself, especially since you seem to be focusing on the part of overlap.  Unless you have irrefutable proof, you are only guessing here, as a borderline can drop a person, and move on to another inside of a week.  Somethings in life are better left alone.

   She is her own person, and she needs to live with the consequences of her actions - and right now she is preoccupied with your replacement.  The only bit of comfort you might get out of this, is that she will do this to the new guy with another new guy, she leave a trail of destroyed men in her wake.  The bad part of this, she is likely incredibly empty inside 

   I also am of the opinion that you are over-analyzing the situation, and grasping on anything that may indicate she will come back to you and give you an explanation.

So my therapy assessment is on the 16th of January so i will be evaluated and then told about the next steps for what will happen. This will also be around the same time I plan to reach out so I will see if they have any advice for me reaching out during that meeting.

[...]

I will be bringing this up in therapy when it starts but for now this is my best release when it comes to getting my thoughts out. I apprecaite you all as always. Any thoughts on this stuff does a lot to help.

   Please be kind to yourself in the upcoming days and do some self-care, see your therapist, and I am hoping you will get some closure from that visit.

   Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

Thanks SD, i have apprecaited your insight over the past weeks with my endless theories.

My life outside of my posts is not as obsessive and consumed with her as it might come across. I only tend to think about her or re-live these situations late at night which i am slowly trying to ease myself off of doing. While i do have a lot to speak about with my therapist, I have uncovered during this process that I have a deep need to feel validated for certain things. I feel a need for my ex to know how out of my way I went for her and that she has hurt me so deeply with everything she has done. I personally have not had a hard home life or anything that would have made me feel this need for validation. But the 2 adult relationships I have had, both were broken people and ended with betrayal and discard. I have you to thank for realising my own flaws and will be working on them moving forward.

You hit the nail on the head as the overlap is the main part for me that I struggle to come to terms with. I was cheated on a lot in my previous relationship before her and I think I focus on the part of her moving on more then our real issues during our relationship because of how betrayed her discarding me so easily feels. I know that I dont want her anymore, I miss the companionship that we all feel the loss of when we get out of a relationship and know that if somehow we did reconcile we would only be repeating a cycle of the ending months of our relationship over again along with me having no trust for her at all. I want her to feel certain things I dont think she is capable of and need to learn to let go instead of pining over minute details that really dont change anything in my life now.

I also am of the opinion that you are over-analyzing the situation, and grasping on anything that may indicate she will come back to you and give you an explanation.

You are 100% correct here and know I have come across quite desperate at times because these posts and my upcoming break of NC in 2 weeks is all I have to grasp onto before I subconciously allow myself to let go of this situation. While she is out living life, more or less uneffected, I sit ruminating over everything most nights when she is the one who treated me so poorly. She is the one who lost me not the other way around plus, she is the person who caused all these issues and does not deserve this much of my energy anymore.

This will most likely be one of my lasts posts as i hope therapy can help with the depression and getting myself into a healthy midset where she no longer has a grasp on me. I might post updates on therapy here and there but will defo look back at this thread to see how my journey has progressed.

Again thanks to all that gave some insight, you have all helped me more then you can know, especially to SD for putting up with me and my relentless questions haha.

All the best,

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

Good day.  Today is the 16th, I am curious if you might want to share an update with us, as today you had a your therapist scheduled.

My life outside of my posts is not as obsessive and consumed with her as it might come across. I only tend to think about her or re-live these situations late at night which i am slowly trying to ease myself off of doing. While i do have a lot to speak about with my therapist, I have uncovered during this process that I have a deep need to feel validated for certain things. I feel a need for my ex to know how out of my way I went for her and that she has hurt me so deeply with everything she has done. I personally have not had a hard home life or anything that would have made me feel this need for validation. But the 2 adult relationships I have had, both were broken people and ended with betrayal and discard. I have you to thank for realising my own flaws and will be working on them moving forward.

I highlighted two needs that you have stated.  I can understand fully for the need to feel validated considering how far you went out of your way to care for her, only to hurt you 'so  deeply'.

The other is that you have had 2 adult relationships, and both of them were with broken people - you need to figure out why this is, your therapist should be able to help you with this.  I know I have this very trait, as I went from the fire (my uBPD/uNPD/+exgf) to the frying pan (my uBPD/uOCPDw).  Once you have addressed this, within therapy, then your future relationship(s) can be healther.

I also wish you all the best in your life's journey, wherever it takes you.

Be sure to take care of yourself with self care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

Good day.  Today is the 16th, I am curious if you might want to share an update with us, as today you had a your therapist scheduled.

You are right SD, today was the day i have been waiting a month for and finally got to speak to a therapist!

Today was more of an assessment to go over the basic questions they need answered and asked for more detail about my situation. I went over the relationship timeline from when we met to the present day and highlighted the main things I am struggling to come to terms with along with the fallout from the relationship and the mental state I have been left in. Everything we spoke about seemed to indicate that I have depression. With this my social anxiety, that I have managed to keep under control for the better part of 15 years, flaring up as a side effect from the depression. Medication is what they have instructed me to seek to better handle both mental problems i face. They have also put me forward to enter cognitive behavioural therapy and an admin will be in touch with me soon when a slot opens up for me to start offically.

I came away feeling proud that I was able to start getting my head straight and it also gave me more motivation to end my career break and seek a new job which I have been in touch with a few places over this past week.

In terms of updates on the situation with my ex we have had some things happen. She posted her first instagram story with her rebound who it turns out was exactly who I thought it was, the guy from her old work i made her block months before we broke up. The photo was a day out with him and one of her her neices with some action shots at the arcade and selfies of the 3 of them in a collage style, pretty much the same sort of family time we would have while together. I know this means and changes nothing to me but just confirms my gut feeling of who it was. Just made me laugh about how she would call him repulsive and ugly while laughing about how he would never have a chance with her while we were together and now he is her new man.

With breaking no contact, I have also hatched a plan with help from my dad who gave me some ideas of how to play things. Clearly any sort of emotional bind she has to me is gone and I would never get though to her on an emotional level from being painted black, but I would be able to have an effect financially.

She already had no money and lost her job shortly after we broke up. Over christmas she got her new job and this month is her first proper paycheck so i bet money right now is very tight for her. She has always been bad with money so i am fully expecting her to have nothing spare for me when I message her. The money she owes me I already mentally let go of but the last thing she said to me is that she will restart payments this month so i  will be checking up sometime this week, before this months payday to confirm if she is sending anything. That way I get first dibs on a portion of her paycheck before she goes to pay off credit cards and stuff. My dad told me to reach out and ask about the money, when she sends less then she previously told me or nothing at all, I ask for her exact payday date and when I can expect a payment to come through. Next month (Feb) I will check on her payday to see if the money is sent through to my account and if I see nothing again, I will be telling her that after 5 months without payment I will be taking her to small claims court. This I have already looked into and would only cost me roughly £60 to set up and they will be the ones pestering her to pay me. I have texts that confirm her agreement to pay me the exact figure we discussed as well as dates when she told me I can expect everything to come through. I also have bank statements that show she was sending me over money each payday when we were previously together so I have more then enough for a case if I need to go down that route. This would either give her the reality check to pay me back in full...or if she fails to make payment with a court order, her credit will be ruined for the next 5+ years and it will be near to impossible for her to find her own place or purchase a car when she passes her test. Either way I get paid and hopefully cause some stress for her and her rebound in the process.

You might ask me "Bxrrows surely its not worth all that effort just for money you dont really need?", you would be 100% correct and I do know how childish it might seem but I want to get my own back in some kind of way and feel like this is the most damage I can do without setting myself back too far with my mental health recovery. While I initially thought about contacting her myself about money as a last ditch effort to try and cause some form of drama in her current love life, my dad gave me this idea that I think I am going to go with. If all of her spare money each month is going to me, either by our current agreement or from a court order, I would cause enough of a racket to make her rebound pay for anything they do or cause some sort of stress for her wondering how she will navigate paying me back along with all her previous debt. The fact she has put me into this mental state, caused a stress induced seizure and potentially cheated on me makes me not feel too badly about this plan.

Any thoughts are appreciated as always and it was great to hear from you again SD, appreciate you checking in my friend.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Everything we spoke about seemed to indicate that I have depression. With this my social anxiety, that I have managed to keep under control for the better part of 15 years, flaring up as a side effect from the depression. Medication is what they have instructed me to seek to better handle both mental problems i face. They have also put me forward to enter cognitive behavioural therapy and an admin will be in touch with me soon when a slot opens up for me to start offically.

I came away feeling proud that I was able to start getting my head straight and it also gave me more motivation to end my career break and seek a new job which I have been in touch with a few places over this past week.

It sounds like your session went quite well and has identified several things to work on, and you have a good plan.  I am also proud of you for doing this.  Keep up the good work.

In terms of updates on the situation with my ex we have had some things happen. She posted her first instagram story with her rebound who it turns out was exactly who I thought it was, the guy from her old work i made her block months before we broke up. The photo was a day out with him and one of her her neices with some action shots at the arcade and selfies of the 3 of them in a collage style, pretty much the same sort of family time we would have while together. I know this means and changes nothing to me but just confirms my gut feeling of who it was. Just made me laugh about how she would call him repulsive and ugly while laughing about how he would never have a chance with her while we were together and now he is her new man.

Isn't it ironic how your 'gut' feeling turned out to be true.  This should show you that you can trust your 'gut' feeling on these kinds of things.


With breaking no contact, I have also hatched a plan with help from my dad who gave me some ideas of how to play things. Clearly any sort of emotional bind she has to me is gone and I would never get though to her on an emotional level from being painted black, but I would be able to have an effect financially.

I do like the fact you are enlisting your father's advice; however, I do think you will likely be disappointed if you follow-through on this plan.  The reasoning being ...

She already had no money and lost her job shortly after we broke up.

As we say in the states, "no money, no honey"...

Over christmas she got her new job and this month is her first proper paycheck so i bet money right now is very tight for her. She has always been bad with money so i am fully expecting her to have nothing spare for me when I message her. The money she owes me I already mentally let go of but the last thing she said to me is that she will restart payments this month so i  will be checking up sometime this week, before this months payday to confirm if she is sending anything. That way I get first dibs on a portion of her paycheck before she goes to pay off credit cards and stuff. My dad told me to reach out and ask about the money, when she sends less then she previously told me or nothing at all, I ask for her exact payday date and when I can expect a payment to come through. Next month (Feb) I will check on her payday to see if the money is sent through to my account and if I see nothing again, I will be telling her that after 5 months without payment I will be taking her to small claims court. This I have already looked into and would only cost me roughly £60 to set up and they will be the ones pestering her to pay me. I have texts that confirm her agreement to pay me the exact figure we discussed as well as dates when she told me I can expect everything to come through. I also have bank statements that show she was sending me over money each payday when we were previously together so I have more then enough for a case if I need to go down that route. This would either give her the reality check to pay me back in full...or if she fails to make payment with a court order, her credit will be ruined for the next 5+ years and it will be near to impossible for her to find her own place or purchase a car when she passes her test. Either way I get paid and hopefully cause some stress for her and her rebound in the process.

To me, this feels like 'revenge', the 'cause some stress' bit.  If it is only a few hundred quid, I wouldn't be chasing it, if it means having to remain in contact with a mentally ill person who betrayed me.  Being mindful, that she is emotionally unstable - how do you think this is going to affect her?  Do you think she will come after you in some way, with made-up lies, as pwBPD are notorious for twisting facts to match their feelings, and these twisted facts (false narratives) are often very believable.  What if the new guy is some kind of wacko, and he does something stupid to you, based on her twisted version of facts?  IMHO, it is not worth that risk.

If your goal is to reconnect with her, it will have the opposite effect.  If you care for her, how is putting her on the street with no car, as you are predicting, an act of caring?

You might ask me "Bxrrows surely its not worth all that effort just for money you dont really need?", you would be 100% correct and I do know how childish it might seem but I want to get my own back in some kind of way and feel like this is the most damage I can do without setting myself back too far with my mental health recovery. While I initially thought about contacting her myself about money as a last ditch effort to try and cause some form of drama in her current love life, my dad gave me this idea that I think I am going to go with. If all of her spare money each month is going to me, either by our current agreement or from a court order, I would cause enough of a racket to make her rebound pay for anything they do or cause some sort of stress for her wondering how she will navigate paying me back along with all her previous debt. The fact she has put me into this mental state, caused a stress induced seizure and potentially cheated on me makes me not feel too badly about this plan.

I don't think doing an act of 'revenge' with a mentally ill person is a good thing to do - that is my personal opinion.  However, I will urge you to sleep on this for a few nights, as it sounds very impulsive, and make sure you are okay doing this, and then you do you even if it means leaving the impression that you enacting revenge on her.

Be sure to do self-care.

Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

So following my therapy session I got in touch with my GP and after my assessment I have been put onto some anti depresents. This will hopefully help me be able to better handle the depression from this whole situation and should tide me over until I can get my teeth into therapy. I am not too sure if it is the medication or just where I am at mentally now but I do not feel a sense of need for her to be in my life anymore. I do not feel like the person I fell in love with is around anymore and have accepted the fact that she has moved on for now even though I still half expect her to recycle me in the future.

I did decide to stick with the plan I previously mentioned but with a less sharp approach on the revenge part. I understand that any money I do get is a consolation from what I can only describe as the worst few months of my entire life and that should be my main goal with reaching out.

I ended up breaking no contact last Thursday and getting my friend to reach out with a simple message about her getting in touch with me to sort the money out. Her instant response was "why did he not message me himself?" so immediatly she was argumentative which I half expected. She then messaged me, while I was still unable to reply due to being blocked, to inform me that she did not forget about the money and she would be paying me on the last day of this month but it would not be a lot due to her not working all that much over christmas, my friend then asked her to unblock me so I could reply which she did. She then asked how much she owed and I told her the figure, she then tried to dispute the figure because she gave me some broken airpods to sell that i was obviously unable too. Then she told me that she would have the air pods back and I told her she can have them. I was then blocked again along with my friends number.

Seems that whatever story she has made up about me being the bad guy in this whole break up she now whole heartedly believes as all of her messages came across very argumentative for whatever reason. I did maintain BIFF and kept it strictly about the information I was trying to obtain which I am happy with. I did also notice the way she was texting/language she was using was very different so it did feel like speaking to an entirely different person. My guess is that her new friends or boyfriend speak like that and she is mirroring them now. I do feel slightly hurt from the fact she seemed like she forgot she had me blocked and that she forgot how much she owed me. Guess it goes to show that she is able to completly switch off her feelings and move on like nothing happened so i doubt she has given us much of a 2nd thought since we started no contact..

Seeing as I reached out, got a rough date that she gets paid and informed her that I do expect payment. I am happy with the way everything went for the most part and will be checking my account for payment over the next few months with little to no contact. The only reason I should need to interact with her from now on is if she sends me very small sums that drag out this payment plan.

Her new boyfriend is harmless, they both live over an hour away from me and from our interaction the other day I think she has already erased me from her memory with how she spoke to me so im not to worried about her trying to get me back for coming for my money. I would like the idea of us being able to reconcile and get back onto a path where we could eventually be back together. Its just i think that ship might have sailed as I feel less and less attatched everyday and she seemed so different from our short interaction last week.

My mention of court in my last post is more or less debt collection through a legal entity. I would be seeking their help to recoup the moeny she owes should she fail to pay me over the nex 2 months. I understand how it could be seen as an act of revenge but ultimatly this is about me getting my money back and if I can cause some stress in her new relationship while doing so then I do not feel too badly about it. When I said she has always had no money its more about how poor she is with money managment and spends it on pointless things she doesnt need. Getting my foot in the door now adds me to the list of her payments she needs to make before she can spend the rest on whatever she wants so reminding her about the money was my way of getting insurance that I have dibs.

Appreiciate you as always and hope your life is not as messy as this right now haha.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for sharing that you have been put on some antidepressants and seem to be doing better.

   I am glad you toned down your 'revenge' - it is nice to fantasize about getting revenge; however, you have to be mindful that she has a personality disorder and cannot help herself - other than a fleeting sense of justice on a disabled person who has wronged you, I cannot see any positive outcomes from something like this, other that some really bitter feelings directed towards you, and how that manifests can be unpredictable or over the top as they feel emotions so much stronger than we do.

   Thank you for the update on the repayment of the amount owed to you, and your plans on capturing some of those funds.  However, if you do follow through  on the small claims, since she cannot manage her money, you will have certainly eliminated any chance of reconciliation as you have expressed, "I would like the idea of us being able to reconcile and get back onto a path where we could eventually be back together. Its just i think that ship might have sailed as I feel less and less attached everyday and she seemed so different from our short interaction last week."

However, you have also indicated you feel less and less attached, and this detachment, which is a good thing.

Appreiciate you as always and hope your life is not as messy as this right now haha.

It is quite ironic you should mention this, my wife had a full blown borderline episode this past Tuesday, complete with projection of violence, full blown rage, and painted my daughter black as night, first one of this magnitude since 2022 which was directed at me at that time.  She was able to recover as I used some newly learned techniques on her, but it was still very impactful, and an ever-present reminder once a borderline, always a borderline, no matter how well it would appear she has control of her outward appearing symptoms.

I plan on asking my wife to tell her version of events to the couple's T, and then I will fill in the gaps of omitted facts and distortions, so I won't be called the bad guy for pointing this out about my wife was extremely abusive towards our daughter last week.  Hopefully some good will come out of this where my wife will become more self-aware of her issues, so she can renew her efforts of fixing herself.

Wish me luck, and hopefully my wife will see the errors of her ways, and take appropriate corrective action.

Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

Yeah, i am happy that going onto medication so far seems to be helping, other then a few side effects such as light insomnia and anxious episodes as the medication wears off.

After thinking everything over I do feel like the plan is some what extreme. Hopefully she pays me back something over the next week even if its not much, its an indication that she is willing to stick to her word and do the right thing. I just hope she is able to send me larger sums as the months go on as the sooner this debt is payed off, the faster I can look to move forward completely.

I understand how it can come across like i am getting a "fleeting sense of justice on a disabled person who has wronged you" but in my opinion her personality disorder does not give her an excuse to get out of paying back a debt she seems to be willing to follow through with. My fathers idea of small claims court was only in the event that she does not pay me anything in the next 2 months. That would add up to 5 months without me seeing a dime and I would not feel too badly about seeking that as an option if I was left with no alternative. While the money does not particularly matter too much to me over my mental health, we still have no contact so i hope it does not have too much of an effect on me in that sense. We will have to see how much she does send and maybe I will ask for more if she sends less then £100 as I cant be waiting 9 months for this to be settled.

My comment on us reconnecting is more of a fantasy at this point. Texting her the other day genuinly felt like talking to a complete stranger, her language and way she text felt so different to what i remember. Its one of those subtle things you would not realise unless you spoke 24/7 like we used to. She is posting things on social media with her and her new 'toy' and it seems to me I am still painted black. She even reblocked me after our brief interaction which felt a little unnessasary as the reason she blocked me in the first place was down to me requesting her too. As much as I know 'my girl' is inside of her somewhere, i doubt she will let herself become that version again. Plus, i dont even know if I would be able to put everything thats happened behind me without some serious groveling from her side which she has proven she will not do for me. I still think back to why we broke up from her POV but i was met with no explaination so I guess I will forever wonder what happened.

It is quite ironic you should mention this, my wife had a full blown borderline episode this past Tuesday, complete with projection of violence, full blown rage, and painted my daughter black as night, first one of this magnitude since 2022 which was directed at me at that time.  She was able to recover as I used some newly learned techniques on her, but it was still very impactful, and an ever-present reminder once a borderline, always a borderline, no matter how well it would appear she has control of her outward appearing symptoms.

Reading this almost made me feel grateful to be out of my relationship as the constant tip toe actions we have to do to keep the peace with our pwBPD seems like a cycle that is a time bomb waiting to happen, your just lucky this extreme of an episode had a 2 year delay. I hope your able to navigate your situation with couples therapy and I hope her next episode is not quite as brutal towards you or your daughter.

All the best,

Bxrrows

 

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

Thanks for sharing again.

We will have to see how much she does send and maybe I will ask for more if she sends less then £100 as I cant be waiting 9 months for this to be settled.

I guessing she owes you about 900 quid inferring that from your statement (100 quid x 9 months), that's a good chunk of money, I can see why you are so interested in getting it back.  I hope you get it back, but if you don't want to deal with crazy you may want to cut your losses and run.  Back in 2001 I cut my losses which I capped to $50k USD (today's money that would be about $84k USD or £66k) - if I were to divorce my current wife, those amounts of loss I just shared would be small fraction of what I would lose now to attorney's fees, and manipulation by her by an order of magnitude.  I am sharing those numbers to illustrate, if you loose that money, in the grand scheme of things when dealing with a disordered former lover, your losses while significant to you could have been a whole lot worse.

It is quite ironic you should mention this, my wife had a full blown borderline episode this past Tuesday, complete with projection of violence, full blown rage, and painted my daughter black as night, first one of this magnitude since 2022 which was directed at me at that time.  She was able to recover as I used some newly learned techniques on her, but it was still very impactful, and an ever-present reminder once a borderline, always a borderline, no matter how well it would appear she has control of her outward appearing symptoms.

Reading this almost made me feel grateful to be out of my relationship as the constant tip toe actions we have to do to keep the peace with our pwBPD seems like a cycle that is a time bomb waiting to happen, your just lucky this extreme of an episode had a 2 year delay. I hope your able to navigate your situation with couples therapy and I hope her next episode is not quite as brutal towards you or your daughter.

For clarification purposes the time between her violence and projected violence episodes was 13 months and 10 days.  On December 6, 2022 she punched me in the arm, and then she threw the shovel at/near my daughter on January 16, 2024.  The previous act of projected violence was in September 2022 when she smacked the crap out of a wall twice in an attempt to scare me - this is the event where I started to enact and enforce boundaries around abuse, starting with physical abuse, and gradually adding different kinds of emotional/verbal/psychological abuses to different, yet very similar boundaries around the central theme of "all abuse must stop". 

It's curious that you would use the term "time bomb", as our couple's therapist has accused me of treating my wife like a "time bomb" prior to this most recent incident and suggested that I do not treat her that way, each time she did this, I bit my tongue as I was thinking each time she said that "No sh!t Shirlock, she is a f***ing bomb that can explode at any moment" when she is triggered.  I usually did not comment on the T's assertion, as it was correct in identifying how I was treating my wife (even with a licensed therapist, I will not validate the invalid, by agreeing to not treat her like a time bomb).  I doubt I will hear those words again from the T - however, if I do, I will definitely be pushing back on her assertive suggestion based on historical behaviors which are indicative of future ones, especially as this has been a pattern going on since 2009, a decade and a half.

Most of my wife's episodes are predominately around mood swings where she is 'splitting' me, our daughter, our son, her boss, her coworkers, the coaches, her fellow volunteers painting them black (devalue), and those still happen on a daily basis, where her version of feelings based distortion of reality/facts that becomes a false narrative is still an issue, and lasts from a few hours to a couple of days, and can include "temporary paranoid thoughts or [and] severe dissociative symptoms triggered by stress".  This is the final area that I would like my wife to start working on herself; however, I am getting a lot of pushback from the couple's therapists on this, as my wife is NOT 'self-aware' of this - this will be the most difficult area for my wife to make meaningful changes without awareness, especially if I do not have support from the couple's T in this area to use the 'DBT fact checking tool' or something similar within the therapy spectrum.

Her "Inappropriately intense anger or [and] problems controlling anger" with rages has been substantially reduced from +/- daily to +/- monthly, until the past 30 days, in which she has had them almost weekly, with the most recent one being the worst with a full blown rage screaming on the top of her lungs.  My wife is self-aware of these issues, so they have dropped significantly.

I know these behaviors will come, I can manage them somewhat with firm boundaries enforced 100% of the time, using communication methods that focus on validating her feelings rather than facts when she becomes 'pre-triggered' in order to avoid detonating the 'bomb' that is my wife which necessitates walking on eggshells when in her presence.

My primary goal is to keep the violence out of the family dynamic (mostly successful), minimize the drama of her anger management issues, (mostly contained to a manageable level), and to have her reduce the amount of distorted narrative she uses to blame shift on to other people (some improvement, but still is a work in progress).  My secondary goal is to reconnect emotionally with my wife, provided that it does not interfere with the primary goal.

If you or anyone reading this has any suggestions on therapy to help persuade my wife to recognize the false narrative, it would be appreciated.

In any event, do some self-care, and take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

I guessing she owes you about 900 quid inferring that from your statement (100 quid x 9 months), that's a good chunk of money, I can see why you are so interested in getting it back.  I hope you get it back, but if you don't want to deal with crazy you may want to cut your losses and run.  Back in 2001 I cut my losses which I capped to $50k USD (today's money that would be about $84k USD or £66k) - if I were to divorce my current wife, those amounts of loss I just shared would be small fraction of what I would lose now to attorney's fees, and manipulation by her by an order of magnitude.  I am sharing those numbers to illustrate, if you loose that money, in the grand scheme of things when dealing with a disordered former lover, your losses while significant to you could have been a whole lot worse.

I am hoping for the money to be sent back and payed off as soon as possible and hope she is able to pay it all off within the next few months. That way i can completly remove her from my life mentaly and it is the last tie we have to eachother. For me the money is more of a principle, while it would be great to have some extra money at any time. She made a point to tell me she will pay it all back so I will chase it if I do not recieve anything at the end of each month.

I think on reflection on where I am now, I was always feeling like her illness kicked in and she discarded when the going got tough. But now I have a feeling that because she is now dating the guy she worked with and would constantly tell me how disgusting he was, maybe she and him had something going on and it was her way of trying to hide it. I like to think that it was her way of coping by getting a rebound but maybe she just decided she liked him and wanted to slowly distance herself from me until i removed myself from the situation. Thoughts on this thought would be helpful.

I have started going onto some dating apps and am currently speaking with someone new who i am interested in. Shes a nice girl and has made iot clear she is into me, she has no history of mental illness and a stable career which is refreshing from my usual type and we are going out on a date soon so I will see how that goes. I somehow feel slightly guilty and nervous about the whole thing as i have not really been close with anyone other then my ex in over a year. Maybe in a way i feel like this because i have been holding on to us getting back together and if i start putting my energy into someone new so its almost like admitting that we are fully done. Its such a strange feeling because I dont even want her back anymore but am always longing for her to reach out and try and win me back. Its a very confusing feeling.

If you or anyone reading this has any suggestions on therapy to help persuade my wife to recognize the false narrative, it would be appreciated.

Im sorry to hear things have taken a downwards turn since you last mentioned what was happening in your life. Its weird the sense of responsibilty you feel when you pwBPD has an episode. You almost feel compeled to have a sixth sense about it to predict its going to happen and stop it before it does. When in reality we have to just be ready to go through the motions and do your best with damage control.

Maybe its worth trying some form of exercise that she can partake in to get this anger and energy out in a healthiier way. If she has always struggled with anger during her episodes, maybe 1 day per week she can attend a boxing gym and get that sort of negative energy out in a more positive way. I remember when my ex saw her doctor after she upped her medication dosage, they recomended gardening and yoga to help regulate her brain, but she ended up turning it down. If your wife has access to these sorts of things it could be worth looking into as it sounds like right now has been a rough few weeks.

Thanks for sharing andlove hearing your insight with my issues as well as you sharing your own.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

Thanks for responding, things are a little bit better for me since the last time we spoke.

I think on reflection on where I am now, I was always feeling like her illness kicked in and she discarded when the going got tough. But now I have a feeling that because she is now dating the guy she worked with and would constantly tell me how disgusting he was, maybe she and him had something going on and it was her way of trying to hide it. I like to think that it was her way of coping by getting a rebound but maybe she just decided she liked him and wanted to slowly distance herself from me until i removed myself from the situation. Thoughts on this thought would be helpful.

My thoughts and observations are, that when a pwBPD is stressed, they become triggered, and have an episode.  "Fear of abandonment" is the core to their being, so if the perceive abandonment from you (real or perceived), they will have another lined up to replace you (unless they have a strong moral compass, half or more don't) when you become too stressful.  Likewise, when your replacement becomes to stressful, the same will happen to your replacement, and the cycle continues.

I have started going onto some dating apps and am currently speaking with someone new who i am interested in. Shes a nice girl and has made iot clear she is into me, she has no history of mental illness and a stable career which is refreshing from my usual type and we are going out on a date soon so I will see how that goes. I somehow feel slightly guilty and nervous about the whole thing as i have not really been close with anyone other then my ex in over a year. Maybe in a way i feel like this because i have been holding on to us getting back together and if i start putting my energy into someone new so its almost like admitting that we are fully done. Its such a strange feeling because I dont even want her back anymore but am always longing for her to reach out and try and win me back. Its a very confusing feeling.

What i put in bold, tells me that you might not be ready to start dating yet.  It is good that you are thinking about this.  If you do go out on dates, don't badmouth your ex, just indicate that it didn't work out, but you wish her the best.  Girls will look at how you dumped your ex, as though you might eventually do the same to them, they don't want to be with someone whom they percieve as as $$hole.

If you or anyone reading this has any suggestions on therapy to help persuade my wife to recognize the false narrative, it would be appreciated.

Im sorry to hear things have taken a downwards turn since you last mentioned what was happening in your life. Its weird the sense of responsibilty you feel when you pwBPD has an episode. You almost feel compeled to have a sixth sense about it to predict its going to happen and stop it before it does. When in reality we have to just be ready to go through the motions and do your best with damage control.

Maybe its worth trying some form of exercise that she can partake in to get this anger and energy out in a healthiier way. If she has always struggled with anger during her episodes, maybe 1 day per week she can attend a boxing gym and get that sort of negative energy out in a more positive way. I remember when my ex saw her doctor after she upped her medication dosage, they recomended gardening and yoga to help regulate her brain, but she ended up turning it down. If your wife has access to these sorts of things it could be worth looking into as it sounds like right now has been a rough few weeks.

The downward turn was temporary, there is a silver lining, she has become more self-aware of her issues, and I think she is now self-aware of 6 symptoms (of the 9 that she has), in essence even though she is not diagnosed, nor accepts it; however, she has in effect made a self-diagnosis of BPD - something amazing and horrifying at the same time.  So, this has gotten her out of he stalled progress, and momentum and is once again moving forward, for how long and how far is anyone's guess, as I am reasonably sure there will be more lapses.

She has been exercising on a regular basis, which has been helpful overall; however, it still didn't prevent the latest episode, if anything, I think it even caught herself off guard.  The most recent episode has helped her learn to regulate her emotions better as well, and progress is being made as she has become more self-aware.

Thanks for asking and offering up suggestions.

Take care.

Sd

[Bxrrows]

My thoughts and observations are, that when a pwBPD is stressed, they become triggered, and have an episode.  "Fear of abandonment" is the core to their being, so if the perceive abandonment from you (real or perceived), they will have another lined up to replace you (unless they have a strong moral compass, half or more don't) when you become too stressful.  Likewise, when your replacement becomes to stressful, the same will happen to your replacement, and the cycle continues.

I agree with this SD, I sometimes have these thoughts like my most recent theory as I am very curious by nature and like the idea of understanding something that is clear to me time and time again that none of this illness will ever make sense not matter how I try and spin it. I do think you are exactly right and I imagine at the point she gets bored of the replacement, she will either try to recycle me or find her next victim to latch onto.

I did wait a few days before responding as I have had a few life updates. I have had a good few interviews for some jobs that I have been in the runnings for and also wanted to see if my ex would pay me this months money following me breaking no contact 2 weeks ago. When breaking no contact she was very cold and argumentative, i maintained BIFF and just asked the questions I needed answers too without reacting to her clear attempts to get a reaction out of me. She told me she would be sending me money on the 31st and earlier on today she sent £100, so 10% of what she owed which was more then i was expecting if anything at all. No messages were exchanged, I just checked my bank and the transaction went through. I think I will just remain in no contact and check my account next month to see if she pays me again. I will only reach out if the money is a very small amount as I no longer feel much of an urge to message her which is a big step considering where I was a few weeks back. Healing is not linear so I do imagine my opinion will fluxuate but I am feeling a lot better recently which i think is down to a mix of time and my medication.

Tomorrow is also my first official day that I start therapy, im looking forward to speaking with my therapist and hope that I am able to start working on rebuilding my mental health since this whole situation. The medication I have been put on is also helping me a lot. I have some side effects that do get annoying but I am not nearly as sad or feeling hopeless like I was in the past 2 months.

I think you are also correct with your comments about dating. I am not ready to move into a new relationship with someone as only the past few weeks have i truly let go of my ex. I would never bad mouth an ex to anyone I date, I have mentioned I got out of a relationship recently but have not got into the nitty gritty of the situation and do not plan too. I am casually talking to a few people but 1 does stand out which I have been getting closer with phone calls and expect us to meet up some point soon. While i still feel like i am not ready for a new relationship, I feel like dates and going with the flow suits me right now. I also do not like the idea of holding myself back from exploring new people because I almost feel like I am stopping myself from enjoying myself for my ex and I dont want her to have that sort of power over me mentally. I think the nervousness is more so the fact that I have become more insecure due to the nature of my break up and have not been in 'dating mode' for over a year so its quite daunting knowing I havent done so in a while.

The downward turn was temporary, there is a silver lining, she has become more self-aware of her issues, and I think she is now self-aware of 6 symptoms (of the 9 that she has), in essence even though she is not diagnosed, nor accepts it; however, she has in effect made a self-diagnosis of BPD - something amazing and horrifying at the same time.  So, this has gotten her out of he stalled progress, and momentum and is once again moving forward, for how long and how far is anyone's guess, as I am reasonably sure there will be more lapses.

I am glad things have been better since you last shared. My only concern would be that her being 'self aware' can be used as a form of manipulation. If she is under the impression that you think she is 'self aware' of her symptoms, it might give her a reason to adapt and come across like they are things she has under control when she is masking them from your POV. I only say this as in my own experience my ex would mask things from me in certain behaviours that she knew I was aware of. I would have to do active searching with questions to find things out that she was otherwise hiding from me, anything from behaviours to actions. Just something to keep in mind.

Look forward to catching up again soon.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for the follow up.

I agree with this SD, I sometimes have these thoughts like my most recent theory as I am very curious by nature and like the idea of understanding something that is clear to me time and time again that none of this illness will ever make sense not matter how I try and spin it. I do think you are exactly right and I imagine at the point she gets bored of the replacement, she will either try to recycle me or find her next victim to latch onto.

From a normal person's perspective ( neurotypical ) this will never make sense.  However, I took the time to join a FB group run by borderlines to help other borderlines, and learned how they think, behave, etc.  Once you figure this out, and 'think like a borderline', their behaviors are actually simple in comparison to a normal person, and are extremely predictable once you have figured out their behavior patterns by studying your pwBPD.  I can actually predict my wife's behavior patterns with greater accuracy than my own behaviors - the only thing I don't know is the timing of those behaviors.  It is kind of like a 3rd world train schedule, you know the train is coming, you just don't know when.

I did wait a few days before responding as I have had a few life updates. I have had a good few interviews for some jobs that I have been in the runnings for and also wanted to see if my ex would pay me this months money following me breaking no contact 2 weeks ago. When breaking no contact she was very cold and argumentative, i maintained BIFF and just asked the questions I needed answers too without reacting to her clear attempts to get a reaction out of me. She told me she would be sending me money on the 31st and earlier on today she sent £100, so 10% of what she owed which was more then i was expecting if anything at all. No messages were exchanged, I just checked my bank and the transaction went through. I think I will just remain in no contact and check my account next month to see if she pays me again.

Congratulations on the job interviews, hope you find one that you like.  With regards to getting paid back, I am very much surprised.  Borderlines in general like validation/appreciation when they do something good (in their eyes).  I would suggest sending a very simple BIFF message along the lines of "Thank you for sending the £100 today (yesterday).  I very much appreciate this.  I will look for the next payment in a month.  Thank you." - do not ask any questions, especially open ended ones, or anything to open up a line of communications beyond that.  Actually, I am pleasantly surprised that you got this money.

Tomorrow is also my first official day that I start therapy, im looking forward to speaking with my therapist and hope that I am able to start working on rebuilding my mental health since this whole situation. The medication I have been put on is also helping me a lot. I have some side effects that do get annoying but I am not nearly as sad or feeling hopeless like I was in the past 2 months.

Congratulations.  Don't expect too much on the first session, it will be like a get to know you kind of thing, finish up any paperwork, and then start to get to know you, and he will likely take a lot of notes, as you are one of many clients that (s)he has.  I am also glad that your medications are helping as well.

I think you are also correct with your comments about dating. I am not ready to move into a new relationship with someone as only the past few weeks have i truly let go of my ex. I would never bad mouth an ex to anyone I date, I have mentioned I got out of a relationship recently but have not got into the nitty gritty of the situation and do not plan too. I am casually talking to a few people but 1 does stand out which I have been getting closer with phone calls and expect us to meet up some point soon. While i still feel like i am not ready for a new relationship, I feel like dates and going with the flow suits me right now. I also do not like the idea of holding myself back from exploring new people because I almost feel like I am stopping myself from enjoying myself for my ex and I dont want her to have that sort of power over me mentally. I think the nervousness is more so the fact that I have become more insecure due to the nature of my break up and have not been in 'dating mode' for over a year so its quite daunting knowing I haven't done so in a while.

This is something you aught to discuss with your therapist.  When I see my therapist, I usually have a list, I organize it in the order of priority that I would like to discuss each item, have resources (articles, sound bytes, to back-up my feelings, and seek a better understanding explanation).  Also take notes on what (s)he says, so you can look it up, or explore it more for yourself between sessions and have better questions the following session.  With all the drama with my pwBPD, I almost never am at a loss of topics to discuss.

The downward turn was temporary, there is a silver lining, she has become more self-aware of her issues, and I think she is now self-aware of 6 symptoms (of the 9 that she has), in essence even though she is not diagnosed, nor accepts it; however, she has in effect made a self-diagnosis of BPD - something amazing and horrifying at the same time.  So, this has gotten her out of he stalled progress, and momentum and is once again moving forward, for how long and how far is anyone's guess, as I am reasonably sure there will be more lapses.

I am glad things have been better since you last shared. My only concern would be that her being 'self aware' can be used as a form of manipulation. If she is under the impression that you think she is 'self aware' of her symptoms, it might give her a reason to adapt and come across like they are things she has under control when she is masking them from your POV. I only say this as in my own experience my ex would mask things from me in certain behaviours that she knew I was aware of. I would have to do active searching with questions to find things out that she was otherwise hiding from me, anything from behaviours to actions. Just something to keep in mind.

Thank you for your concern, those thoughts have indeed crossed my mind; however, my pwBPD will not intentionally do manipulation, even though she does this instinctually on a subconscious level.  She is not under the impression that I know that she is more self-aware at this point in time, as she has recently put it on the front page of her therapy journal that was left out, and my curiosity got the better of me, so I looked after the most recent episode.  I do keep my eyes wide open, and I do listen to my gut instinctual feelings as it is almost never wrong after I verify my feelings with facts and observations.

Good luck with everything, and I hope you do much better.  As I am interested in how things progress, if you don't mind, please follow up.  Thanks.

Be sure to continue to do self care.  Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

From a normal person's perspective ( neurotypical ) this will never make sense.  However, I took the time to join a FB group run by borderlines to help other borderlines, and learned how they think, behave, etc.  Once you figure this out, and 'think like a borderline', their behaviors are actually simple in comparison to a normal person, and are extremely predictable once you have figured out their behavior patterns by studying your pwBPD.  I can actually predict my wife's behavior patterns with greater accuracy than my own behaviors - the only thing I don't know is the timing of those behaviors.  It is kind of like a 3rd world train schedule, you know the train is coming, you just don't know when.

Its good that you are able to see these sorts of episodes coming and you did your research a lot more then I did when I was in my relationship. I did not really have to deal with the negatives before it was too late and everything ended up crashing and burning. Even now I still find some of her behaviours baffling. She was with her ex, the one before me, for 4 years on and off. During their short lived break ups she would have someone else to fill her time until they got back together and none of them ever lasted more then 2 months. She broke the cycle with me as we were together for a year and she is now seeing this new guy from sometime in November until the current day. I did really expect her to get bored by now and maybe have someone new or try to recycle me but they are still together. She has not done any posts with him other then the odd story here and there so I do not think they are fully official but still find it so confusing where she is at mentally as her current situation has lasted longer then I anticipated. Even though I dont want her back anymore, i still find it oddly comforting that she does not post him all over social media, like she did me, as it almost gives me a sense of not being easily replacable if they are not in an offical relationship.

I did have faith in her to pay me after our conversation 2 weeks ago. She made a point to tell me she did not forget and gets payed at the end of the month so i just waited to see if she was being honest and it turns out she was. I dont think their is much point in me trying to reach out to thank her as after we spoke 2 weeks ago, she reblocked me instantly after our conversation along with my friend who helped me get back in touch. Getting across that message would mean I message her on an obscure social media we rarly used so it might be more hastle then its worth, but let me know your thoughts on what you would do in my shoes.

Therapy went well, I pretty much went over my story to give her a good starting point to work with moving forward. She commented on how self aware I am with everything that has happened along with my reactions to these broken relationships I keep finding myself in. I just hope the next few sessions will give me a better understanding of myself as I have done everything I can to better understand my ex POV with her BPD. I will be taking your advice and mention my future dating process with my therapist as I do miss being with someone but also know I need time to understand myself again while learning what red flags to avoid in future partners.

Oddly as I post this, i am having a rare rough evening which I think is my first one in 2 weeks. I saw some memories from this time last year and its crazy to think of everything that has gone on over the past few months. This girl was the center of my entire life and everything was going smoothly, a few road bumps later and we are strangers. Even our conversation 2 weeks ago felt like talking to a different person, the way she text and the language she used was really different to how she used to talk and I could tell this even through texts. The brief time we spoke she would text me like she was trying to start an arguement. Questioning the amount she owed, telling me she wants her old airpods back, asking my friend why I did not reach out myself. All these little things that I noticed her trying to say to get a reaction out of me. I guess starting an arguement with me would reinforce her opinion that I am the bad guy in all this. I just wish she was not so cold with me as it really feels like it invalidates a lot of our time together. She was so loving and ultimatly stopped treating me well until I told her I wouldnt take it anymore. Since then she just became someone unrecognisable and I hope one day shes able to tap back into that version of herself.

Look forward to hearing from you as always.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

Thanks for sharing.

Its good that you are able to see these sorts of episodes coming and you did your research a lot more then I did when I was in my relationship.

I read yesterday, that this is a 'trauma response' being able to predict these kinds of behaviors - ugh, I hate doing this, but it is a necessary evil, in order to survive this ordeal with lesser damage.  Also, it took me many months from the time I was introduced to the concept of BPD, to understanding it to a point where I could formulate a response - the therapists I had at the time were hesitant going this direction until they were reasonably sure I was dealing with someone who has PDs as my wife presented as though she didn't by being able to hold down a job, and didn't abuse substances - a high functioning pwBPD/OCPD.

I did not really have to deal with the negatives before it was too late and everything ended up crashing and burning. Even now I still find some of her behaviours baffling. She was with her ex, the one before me, for 4 years on and off. During their short lived break ups she would have someone else to fill her time until they got back together and none of them ever lasted more then 2 months. She broke the cycle with me as we were together for a year and she is now seeing this new guy from sometime in November until the current day. I did really expect her to get bored by now and maybe have someone new or try to recycle me but they are still together. She has not done any posts with him other then the odd story here and there so I do not think they are fully official but still find it so confusing where she is at mentally as her current situation has lasted longer then I anticipated. Even though I dont want her back anymore, i still find it oddly comforting that she does not post him all over social media, like she did me, as it almost gives me a sense of not being easily replacable if they are not in an offical relationship.

That is a unique perspective that you aren't as easily replaceable, yet you have been replaced - I am keeping it real, even though it feels different.  One thought that did cross my mind, is that he may be cheating on his gf with your ex - so she might be the 'side chick' like he was the 'side dick' when she was with you.  I am glad you have been able to process this and have detached as you no longer 'want her back anymore'.  Keep up the good work and outlook on this.

I did have faith in her to pay me after our conversation 2 weeks ago. She made a point to tell me she did not forget and gets payed at the end of the month so i just waited to see if she was being honest and it turns out she was. I dont think their is much point in me trying to reach out to thank her as after we spoke 2 weeks ago, she reblocked me instantly after our conversation along with my friend who helped me get back in touch. Getting across that message would mean I message her on an obscure social media we rarly used so it might be more hastle then its worth, but let me know your thoughts on what you would do in my shoes.

This is me personally, I would send it to the blocked point of contact, that way, when it is unblocked, she will see that you made the effort; however, keep it BIFF, as you would do for anyone whom you loaned money too (like a friend who is no longer a friend) and do not have open ended questions, or suggest anything more.  This way I would have fulfilled my moral obligation to acknowledge this repayment as she has already questioned the amount that she owed, this way you can document she owed you 1000 quid, she paid back 100 quid, and the balance due is 900 quid.

Therapy went well, I pretty much went over my story to give her a good starting point to work with moving forward. She commented on how self aware I am with everything that has happened along with my reactions to these broken relationships I keep finding myself in. I just hope the next few sessions will give me a better understanding of myself as I have done everything I can to better understand my ex POV with her BPD. I will be taking your advice and mention my future dating process with my therapist as I do miss being with someone but also know I need time to understand myself again while learning what red flags to avoid in future partners.

That sounds very promising.  You will only get out of therapy what you put into it.  I usually have a list of topics I want to go over, and then I go over them with a fine tooth comb and do a deep dive on a particular issue.  I usually prioritize the issues, so the most important ones to me are addressed first.

Oddly as I post this, i am having a rare rough evening which I think is my first one in 2 weeks. I saw some memories from this time last year and its crazy to think of everything that has gone on over the past few months. This girl was the center of my entire life and everything was going smoothly, a few road bumps later and we are strangers. Even our conversation 2 weeks ago felt like talking to a different person, the way she text and the language she used was really different to how she used to talk and I could tell this even through texts. The brief time we spoke she would text me like she was trying to start an arguement. Questioning the amount she owed, telling me she wants her old airpods back, asking my friend why I did not reach out myself. All these little things that I noticed her trying to say to get a reaction out of me. I guess starting an arguement with me would reinforce her opinion that I am the bad guy in all this. I just wish she was not so cold with me as it really feels like it invalidates a lot of our time together. She was so loving and ultimatly stopped treating me well until I told her I wouldnt take it anymore. Since then she just became someone unrecognisable and I hope one day shes able to tap back into that version of herself.

It sounds like you are on track for a healthy and timely recovery, I know with my own issues, I would not recover nearly as fast as you are - for each of us this is a process.  Keep moving forward, and take care of yourself with self-care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

That is a unique perspective that you aren't as easily replaceable, yet you have been replaced - I am keeping it real, even though it feels different.  One thought that did cross my mind, is that he may be cheating on his gf with your ex - so she might be the 'side chick' like he was the 'side dick' when she was with you.  I am glad you have been able to process this and have detached as you no longer 'want her back anymore'.  Keep up the good work and outlook on this.

I do agree, i think i meant more like a silver lining in the situation. Even though she has replaced me after the break up, It made me feel like her not being in an offical relationship was a small win for me as she was not going to fully comit to the new guy. Funny how i mention this now as yesterday I was viewing some videos my friend sent me on instagram and went into my DMs, my ex and my messages are still on the first page of my instagram messages so going into the DM tab i noticed my ex profile picture updated to a photo of her and him. So my 'silver lining' of telling myself how she was not in a new official relationship was wrong. I did not really feel too much about the sitation because if they are together or not, it does not impact my life in the slightest or change whatever arrangmentI thought they previously had. My only thoughts are that in the photo I noticed her new boyfriend has pierced ears and previously did not when I saw photos of him last year. I am not sure if that is her doing or not but I have both my ears pierced so maybe she is trying to recreate me though him somehow.

This is me personally, I would send it to the blocked point of contact, that way, when it is unblocked, she will see that you made the effort; however, keep it BIFF, as you would do for anyone whom you loaned money too (like a friend who is no longer a friend) and do not have open ended questions, or suggest anything more.  This way I would have fulfilled my moral obligation to acknowledge this repayment as she has already questioned the amount that she owed, this way you can document she owed you 1000 quid, she paid back 100 quid, and the balance due is 900 quid.

So i tested this theory with a friend and got him to block my number so I could send a text and then he would unblock me. The message I sent when blocked did not appear and will not show in their messages after getting unblocked. Fells a little redundant to do now but I am kind of conflicted doing so. I dont have any interest in rekindling a relationship with her anymore, especially now shes posting him, so I am not sure if its worth trying to find a way to do that gesture on a platform i know it will get through. Let me know your thoughts.

With therapy, I have been given a task to document my feelings throughout the days between my last and next session as they are weekly meetings for an hour. So far I have been some what okay but the medication I am on, makes it kind of hard for me to feel much negativly at the moment. In some ways its nice to know that I dont really feel sad or down anymore but the fact I cant feel sad even if I wanted too, bugs me a bit. I know for the meantime not feeling sad is going to be good for me in the long run but maybe I look into coming off medication when I am more stable. I am going to be going into my next few sessions with topics I want to focus on. My main one being why I feel the need to be validated for my good deeds in a relationship and why I seem to attract/gravitate towards broken people.

It sounds like you are on track for a healthy and timely recovery, I know with my own issues, I would not recover nearly as fast as you are - for each of us this is a process.  Keep moving forward

The medication has been a game changer for me honestly. I feel like i have come a long way since the start of the year as November and December last year were the darkest times of my entire life. I had daily thoughts about ending my life and could not think about anything but my ex. Time heals everything, i have kept as distracted as I could do until those distractions just turned into my focuses in life. Just taking every day at a time and hope that my current position shows how things can get better but we will always have ups and downs along that path of detatchment/recovery.

Looking forward to giving more updates and would love to hear more updates about your wife, I hope everything is running smoothly still.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

Thank you for sharing, again.

I do agree, i think i meant more like a silver lining in the situation. Even though she has replaced me after the break up, It made me feel like her not being in an offical relationship was a small win for me as she was not going to fully comit to the new guy. Funny how i mention this now as yesterday I was viewing some videos my friend sent me on instagram and went into my DMs, my ex and my messages are still on the first page of my instagram messages so going into the DM tab i noticed my ex profile picture updated to a photo of her and him. So my 'silver lining' of telling myself how she was not in a new official relationship was wrong. I did not really feel too much about the sitation because if they are together or not, it does not impact my life in the slightest or change whatever arrangmentI thought they previously had. My only thoughts are that in the photo I noticed her new boyfriend has pierced ears and previously did not when I saw photos of him last year. I am not sure if that is her doing or not but I have both my ears pierced so maybe she is trying to recreate me though him somehow.

That is definitely an interesting thought / theory where she is bending him to be more like you - and he is letting her influence him on this.  You seem to be still stuck ruminating on her, and what she is doing, instead of focusing on yourself, and what you can do in order to be moving forward.  I would recommend talking to your own therapist on this.

So i tested this theory with a friend and got him to block my number so I could send a text and then he would unblock me. The message I sent when blocked did not appear and will not show in their messages after getting unblocked. Fells a little redundant to do now but I am kind of conflicted doing so. I dont have any interest in rekindling a relationship with her anymore, especially now shes posting him, so I am not sure if its worth trying to find a way to do that gesture on a platform i know it will get through. Let me know your thoughts.

It depends on which platform you are using.  I shared what I would have done being mindful of documenting this for legal purposes if it were to go to small claims court as you alluded to earlier in this thread.  Please do what is comfortable for you with regards to documenting your loan to her.

With therapy, I have been given a task to document my feelings throughout the days between my last and next session as they are weekly meetings for an hour. So far I have been some what okay but the medication I am on, makes it kind of hard for me to feel much negativly at the moment. In some ways its nice to know that I dont really feel sad or down anymore but the fact I cant feel sad even if I wanted too, bugs me a bit. I know for the meantime not feeling sad is going to be good for me in the long run but maybe I look into coming off medication when I am more stable. I am going to be going into my next few sessions with topics I want to focus on. My main one being why I feel the need to be validated for my good deeds in a relationship and why I seem to attract/gravitate towards broken people.

It sounds like your therapy is going well, and is going in a good direction.  I too seem to attract broken people (even though it did not seem like it at the time, where she ticked all of the boxes I was looking for).  However, this being my 2nd borderline relationship, I knew the issue was me, and I have explored that extensively with two individual therapists.

It sounds like you are on track for a healthy and timely recovery, I know with my own issues, I would not recover nearly as fast as you are - for each of us this is a process.  Keep moving forward

The medication has been a game changer for me honestly. I feel like i have come a long way since the start of the year as November and December last year were the darkest times of my entire life. I had daily thoughts about ending my life and could not think about anything but my ex. Time heals everything, i have kept as distracted as I could do until those distractions just turned into my focuses in life. Just taking every day at a time and hope that my current position shows how things can get better but we will always have ups and downs along that path of detatchment/recovery.

Looking forward to giving more updates and would love to hear more updates about your wife, I hope everything is running smoothly still.

I am curious, only if you are comfortable, which medicine seems to be working so well for you?

Keep moving forward to a better place for yourself, with a lot of self-care.

My wife is doing better, still has issues, but seems to behave as though that incident never happened - she just doesn't realize the impact it has had on me when she does that.  She wants so badly for me to see her as a normal person, yet when she dysregulates like that, it only pushes me in the opposite direction.

Since the incident, she has chosen to actively reconnect with me like when we were first dating - I am hopeful that this is in a healthy way, and not in a love-bombing way.  Time will tell, as of right now it feels like a bit of both.  Either way, I am enjoying this renewed positive attention from her even though it is very hit or miss, and it is no longer just a few bread-crumbs, now it is bread slices, but not the whole loaf.  I will be exploring this in depth with my own therapist in depth on my next session with her.  It is definitely a roller coaster ride of her emotional states.

Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

That is definitely an interesting thought / theory where she is bending him to be more like you - and he is letting her influence him on this.  You seem to be still stuck ruminating on her, and what she is doing, instead of focusing on yourself, and what you can do in order to be moving forward.  I would recommend talking to your own therapist on this.

I get where you are coming from with this. My brother was actually the one to comment on the photo and asked me if he had his earings previously in which i realised he did not. I do find myself ruminating from time to time as I am still adjusting to life without her and im sure in time this will slowly ramp down. I did bring this up with my therapist and she made a point of saying everyone is unique in the sense of their recovery. While i do ruminate from time to time, she told me to not repress it and go through the motions if it helps me move forward. I do not want to keep reliving the last few weeks of our relationship and hope they become less and less frequent.

I have already taken screenshots of previous messages and have bank statements with the money she has sent me previously as a record of payment so I think I am good on that should I need to take legal action on her. I am confident that she will pay me the rest of the money back but do have a feeling that she will try to only send 100 per month when I would like her to get it all sent over as soon as possible so she would be fully out of my life.

A mix of my medication and therapy has been helpful. I am still more thankful to the medication so far as it has helped me to regulate my social anxiety that I have not been medicated for before. I have had social anxiety since I was 8 and I have seen a noticable difference in that area since starting this course. One thing that does bother me is the fact that I almost feel unable to feel sadness currently. I feel like I had a bad day the other day where I would usualy feel sad but the emotion did not come and felt quite alien to me. I have felt sad ever since the break up and since starting my meds I have found it quite hard to experience that. While on one hand its good to not feel sad constantly, I am slightly bothered that I dont know how to feel sad anymore even if I wanted too, its more of a numb feeling. It might be something to do with my dosage. Today I contacted my doctor about getting a refill and mentioned this to them, they told me to continue with it and at a point I feel more stable we can look to potentially lower it.

The medication I take is 100mg of Sertraline. Its a very standand version of Zoloft and have found it helpful thus far. The standard dose is 50mg but i was put straight onto 100mg. While I do have some side effects with this and the strange sensation of unable to feel sadness. I think its helped me a lot and feel like being on some sort of medication for my troubles in the long term could be helpful, just maybe something less strong in the future.

One mini update is that my ex pwBPD has a sister who was pregnant most of last year and was due to give birth around this time. Her sister is the type to make her kids instagram accounts to show their early lives and document their growth. Under my 'people you may know' tab I was shown a profile of the newborn baby that she created an instagram for. I remember sitting with my ex, her sister and husband thinking about baby names and they ended up picking the name i suggested. While I know its nothing to do with me, I did smile when i noticed they settled on that name for her. I also felt strange knowing how excited we were about the new baby and while again, I do not really feel sad about it. Knowing I was planning on being there for the birth and being introcued as an uncle was something I was looking forward too but now her new boyfriend has taken that role. Again its a weird feeling but its a thought I had when I saw the account.

Since the incident, she has chosen to actively reconnect with me like when we were first dating - I am hopeful that this is in a healthy way, and not in a love-bombing way.  Time will tell, as of right now it feels like a bit of both.  Either way, I am enjoying this renewed positive attention from her even though it is very hit or miss, and it is no longer just a few bread-crumbs, now it is bread slices, but not the whole loaf.  I will be exploring this in depth with my own therapist in depth on my next session with her.  It is definitely a roller coaster ride of her emotional states.

Its nice to see that things are looking up and she has painted you white again, enjoy this while you have it. It might be worth making sure when things are good that you are able to do some early damage control for when things do take a dip again. When she is less prone to stress or negative feelings towards you, I imagine she would be more open to looking into her bad habbits when it comes to her bad days. Just an idea.

Hope you are keeping well.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for clarifying your brother's observations on your replacement's ear rings - interesting theory.   I also find it interesting that your exBPD's sister used a baby name that you had suggested - that's kind of fascinating too.

   I think you are documenting things well enough with regards to the 'loan' -- I hear you that you want this done sooner rather than later, so she is out of your life. 

   Thank you for sharing the medication as well, and how it affects your sadness being felt more as a numbness.
   
   Quick update on my wife, she is back to baseline, neither black, nor white, definitely neutral with little to no expressed feelings as her fear of abandonment has kicked in again - love the roller coaster of emotions...

   Take care.

SD

[Caesar46]

I do feel for you really. Having a BPD girlfriend is like dating two person at once. One is the caring loving soul you fall for and the other one is the pure evil. Its easy to be confused wonder which one of those characters are real and I have a good answer to that.

BOTH OF THEM IS REAL

I know this sounds silly because we normal humans dont operate like this but these people are sick and they have no control over their emotions. They lack consistency and they cannot behave like we do.

A small word or argument cant turn you into a monster in their eyes regardless of your 1000 good actions in the past and another guy's bad behaviour or just missing you can turn you into an angel in their eyes suddenly.

[Bxrrows]

I do feel for you really. Having a BPD girlfriend is like dating two person at once. One is the caring loving soul you fall for and the other one is the pure evil. Its easy to be confused wonder which one of those characters are real and I have a good answer to that.

BOTH OF THEM IS REAL

I know this sounds silly because we normal humans dont operate like this but these people are sick and they have no control over their emotions. They lack consistency and they cannot behave like we do.

A small word or argument cant turn you into a monster in their eyes regardless of your 1000 good actions in the past and another guy's bad behaviour or just missing you can turn you into an angel in their eyes suddenly.

Hi Caessar,

I have very conflicted feelings as time moves forward. I know that the girl I was with adored me and everything was very real for us both throughout our relationship but the car crash of events following our break up was so beyond any hurt I have felt before that I have a lot of negative feelings towards her now.

As much as I sympathise with her illness, I dont want to make excuses for her being an overall bad person to me anymore. She shows awareness for things she does knowing it would hurt me and does it anyway. That is just the trait of a bad person who does not have any regard for anyone elses feelings. If she truly wanted to make things work she would have done everything like I did to try and move forward small issues. However, she was not ever willing to compromise on anything and when i stopped compromising we broke up.

Then she falls into the arms of the guy she worked with who was grooming her as a 'friend' for months before we split. She knows what she did and knows the effect it would have on me and everyone in our lives but none of it matters. I just hope she is able to live with herself when/if she ever faces the reality of how she has treated me.

[Bxrrows]

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for clarifying your brother's observations on your replacement's ear rings - interesting theory.   I also find it interesting that your exBPD's sister used a baby name that you had suggested - that's kind of fascinating too.

   I think you are documenting things well enough with regards to the 'loan' -- I hear you that you want this done sooner rather than later, so she is out of your life. 

   Thank you for sharing the medication as well, and how it affects your sadness being felt more as a numbness.
   
   Quick update on my wife, she is back to baseline, neither black, nor white, definitely neutral with little to no expressed feelings as her fear of abandonment has kicked in again - love the roller coaster of emotions...

   Take care.

SD,

I have not been as active recently as I have been focused on my mental and physical health this past week.

When I saw the photo I did not really think too much into anything but when he pointed the earings out, I did ruminate and think about if she was trying to subconciously recreate me in her new partner. The baby I found quite funny and hope they remember it was my suggestion.

With the money I am still hopeful to get another payment at the end of this month and hope she is able to put more towards the next payment, if not I will reach out to her mum to let her know I would appreciate more sooner rather then later to get this all over and done with ASAP.

Medication I have adjusted too now, no longer have many side effects. I do feel a numbness instead of sadness if I ever do have a rare down day. Its a weird feeling but know its the best thing for me until i get a better grip on my depression.

Being as today is Valentines Day. I have had very conflicting feelings. I looked back at my this time last year knowing I would see what we did. I took her to a spa and 5* hotel as a surprise. I looked back at it as a nice memory but felt off that we aren't together doing something simular this year which was a very odd feeling. I dont want her back anymore but I have never done anything big previously on this day so I guess i felt a different connection with her and today. I did let my curiosity get the better of me though and checked her instagram to see if she was posting anything. She changed her profile pic to just a selfie of her instead of the photo of the 2 of them and posted a story of her work giving her some flowers...but strangely, no posts relating to my replacement. Whether they did anything or not, I know it would not compare to last year and found some comfort in knowing she did not post anything as last year she posted everything we did. Maybe she has plans for the weekend or will post things in the next few days but honestly who cares at this point.

 I ruminated today quite a bit but my day to day is now no longer filled with thoughts of her, she is a meer after thought these days. Overall happy with how things have been going more or less and feel like therapy is a good weekly outlet for me to speak on matters that bother me as well as this forum.

Im sorry to hear about your wife pulling back again. Has anything new developed since you last shared?

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

Bxrrows,

Thank you for checking in.

I have not been as active recently as I have been focused on my mental and physical health this past week.

I like to hear that you are focused on your own self-care - keep up the good work, I want you this to be a success for you.

When I saw the photo I did not really think too much into anything but when he pointed the earings out, I did ruminate and think about if she was trying to subconciously recreate me in her new partner. The baby I found quite funny and hope they remember it was my suggestion.

Perhaps, keep this as a memory, that you are more impactful on her that she realizes.  Perhaps one day she will figure this out, or not.

With the money I am still hopeful to get another payment at the end of this month and hope she is able to put more towards the next payment, if not I will reach out to her mum to let her know I would appreciate more sooner rather then later to get this all over and done with ASAP.

I hear you, and in an ideal world she would pay everything back sooner rather than later; however, please be mindful that we don't live in an ideal world.

Medication I have adjusted too now, no longer have many side effects. I do feel a numbness instead of sadness if I ever do have a rare down day. Its a weird feeling but know its the best thing for me until i get a better grip on my depression.

I am happy for you that this is also getting better as well.

Being as today is Valentines Day. I have had very conflicting feelings. I looked back at my this time last year knowing I would see what we did. I took her to a spa and 5* hotel as a surprise. I looked back at it as a nice memory but felt off that we aren't together doing something simular this year which was a very odd feeling. I dont want her back anymore but I have never done anything big previously on this day so I guess i felt a different connection with her and today. I did let my curiosity get the better of me though and checked her instagram to see if she was posting anything. She changed her profile pic to just a selfie of her instead of the photo of the 2 of them and posted a story of her work giving her some flowers...but strangely, no posts relating to my replacement. Whether they did anything or not, I know it would not compare to last year and found some comfort in knowing she did not post anything as last year she posted everything we did. Maybe she has plans for the weekend or will post things in the next few days but honestly who cares at this point.

Valentine's Day along with anniversaries and birthdays you will likely have conflicted feelings and ruminate on all of the good things in the past.  I see you are still looking at her social media posts - if she posts something it will likely make you feel worse, not better - so why do it (other than morbid curiosity)?

I ruminated today quite a bit but my day to day is now no longer filled with thoughts of her, she is a meer after thought these days. Overall happy with how things have been going more or less and feel like therapy is a good weekly outlet for me to speak on matters that bother me as well as this forum.

I do the same.  Even though I am still with my wife, I no longer am pining for her affection.  If she wants to have a relationship with me, she can actively engage me, and I will; however, I will no longer actively chase in the game of 'impossible to get'. 

Im sorry to hear about your wife pulling back again. Has anything new developed since you last shared?

No new developments in relationship matters in the immediate family.  Her dad is in the ICU after having several hearts stoppages, so that is consuming her attention right now, so it is nice and quiet and drama free for the time being at home with the children, as she is in hospital with her mum by his bedside.

Once again, thank you for checking in.

Take care, and have a good weekend.

SD

[Bxrrows]

SD,

I have just been trying to sort my mental out as each week that passes I feel more and more detatched from my ex. I still have the happy memories that I sometimes get random thoughts about and appreciate them for how they made me feel at the time but other then that her as a person will unfortunatly forever be tarnished in my mind from how things ended.

I do agree that I feel she is trying to mirror me with him and the earings and its quite nice knowing her sister chose the baby name I selected. I dont know what it is but i am always so curious about her new relationship. As much as I know her BPD makes her need that companionship to remain content. I am SO curious to know what her situation is with him. She is a love bomber and as long as I have known her she has been the type to plaster her relationship everywhere. With me she uploaded at least a post a month, along with countless stories about how much she loved me. With him she has posted 1-2 stories surrounding him total since November time, which is very out of the normal and is yet to post him as apart of her main instagram page that used to be covered with my face during our relationship.

I will be bringing these thoughts up with my therapist as she is telling me to check her social media when I feel like it but to do my best to limit that along with trying to change the times I would typcially look as the habit is something she wants me to tackle first. We have looked into the social media check ups and I get relief when she doesn't post anything but feel anxious whenever she uploads. Its a process but am gradually looking less and less so I feel like we are on the right track.

The money I know she will pay back over time but I meant more that I want her to send as much as she can to get this over with ASAP instead of drip feeding me the odd £100 as a standard payment, regardless of how much she has spare. I guess we will see at the end of this month as to what will happen with the money moving forward.

Valentines Day was a weird one for me, it was what I would consider a bad day but it was more a strange feeling that I have only spent it with her previously and think i feel a connection with her and that day. The next big day for us would be her birthday on the 7th of March so after that I am hoping that these strange off feelings will die down as the next holiday with be my birthday at the end of May.

No new developments in relationship matters in the immediate family.  Her dad is in the ICU after having several hearts stoppages, so that is consuming her attention right now, so it is nice and quiet and drama free for the time being at home with the children, as she is in hospital with her mum by his bedside.

I am so sorry to hear about his current situation. I hope you and your family are taking care of eachother in these tense times. I am also sorry to hear about the affection wave coming to an end. She will most likely go through the ups and downs of being affectionate, this dry patch is probably more down to her focus being on her father then anything malitious towards you. Sounds like such a rough time knowing one day she is all over you and the next she is cold towards you and treats it like a switch she can toggle at her will. That was the hardest part for me to come to terms with my break up so I can only imagine how this being a constant cycle must be a heavy burden to carry.

All the best,

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

I will be bringing these thoughts up with my therapist as she is telling me to check her social media when I feel like it but to do my best to limit that along with trying to change the times I would typcially look as the habit is something she wants me to tackle first. We have looked into the social media check ups and I get relief when she doesn't post anything but feel anxious whenever she uploads. Its a process but am gradually looking less and less so I feel like we are on the right track.

It sounds like you are on the 'right' track.  Keep up the good work.

The money I know she will pay back over time but I meant more that I want her to send as much as she can to get this over with ASAP instead of drip feeding me the odd £100 as a standard payment, regardless of how much she has spare. I guess we will see at the end of this month as to what will happen with the money moving forward.

Thanks for sharing that too.  I feel as long as you are getting at least a hundred quid, you should be okay, even though it would be very nice if she could pay you back faster.

No new developments in relationship matters in the immediate family.  Her dad is in the ICU after having several hearts stoppages, so that is consuming her attention right now, so it is nice and quiet and drama free for the time being at home with the children, as she is in hospital with her mum by his bedside.

I am so sorry to hear about his current situation. I hope you and your family are taking care of eachother in these tense times. I am also sorry to hear about the affection wave coming to an end. She will most likely go through the ups and downs of being affectionate, this dry patch is probably more down to her focus being on her father then anything malitious towards you. Sounds like such a rough time knowing one day she is all over you and the next she is cold towards you and treats it like a switch she can toggle at her will. That was the hardest part for me to come to terms with my break up so I can only imagine how this being a constant cycle must be a heavy burden to carry.

Bxrrows, the affection wave was short lived.  She goes through a predictable fear of engulfment cycle on her affections, very push/pull - I told her I will not engage this behavior too much, this started before the issue with her dad. 

In spite of the extreme stress, my BPDw has handled this remarkably well even if it take her focus away from our relationship.  Once he is out of hospital, we will see how things move forward from there.

Thanks for listening, and take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

SD,

Everything seems to be going smoothly right now. Therapy is a good outlet, medication seems to be working well and I am gradually moving on with my life. I have started trying to talk with more people and mindlessly flirt with people over dating apps. The past few weeks I have spoken to a few people and one stuck out. I have tried to break the habbit of putting my time into girls who have not got themselves together. My track record like I have previously touched on is with broken people, with broken families who are horrid with money and have some form of personality disorder. This new girl I have met is a year older for one, has a stable carrer in finance and is living in her own place. She is a stunning girl and somehow I have managed to get a date with her this saturday and am actually looking forward to it. I wonder how I wil feel on the day and after the date as this would be the first person I have been out with since my break up.

Even if this does not work out I think a date would be a good first step for me to move forward. Since my break up, my life has been stagnant which has been a tough thing to get through. I have not had the motivation for anything until recently. I am getting back onto my feet and have weekly interviews for jobs I like as well as putting myself our there to try and create new connections with other women. I feel like a lot of my attatchment to my ex was mainly down to being stuck in the same place since it all went down but now that attatchment is close to gone i am excited for how my future looks.

With my ex the money is the only thing I care about now and dont really have much to say to her anymore. A few weeks back I wanted to tell her how bad my life has been mentally since the break up and how this whole situation pushed me to want to unalive myself. In some weird way I felt like telling her these things would strike a courd and she would feel bad knowing how her actions have impacted me so much but came to realise she would not care. She didn't care how her actions damaged me during our relationship and she is sure to care even less now we have had virtually no contact for 3 months. Thankfully I can say I no longer have these thoughts to hurt myself and have a new sense of purpose now my life is moving forward without being consumed by her all day.

I am glad to hear your father in-law is in a better state if he is looking at getting out of hospital soon. I hope things with you and your wife get back to a better/healthier place after the dust settles with this situation. You come across as a very patient man and I hope one day I have a fraction of the patience you do when it comes to dealing with a realtionship.

All the best,

Bxrrows