just let it be

[tina7868]

Hello! It feels like it`s time for me to start a new post. Buckle up!

I don`t know exactly how long it`s been since I last spoke to my ex, maybe around 5-6 months now. Lately, I`ve been feeling a shift. I had spent so long navigating difficult feelings. I used to wake up with a heavy heart. I would comfort myself with hope that I would hear from him again, asking the universe to please bring us back together. And that did make me feel better for a while. Now, out of habit, I will do the same, but there isn`t any feeling behind it anymore. It`s strange, I am perplexed almost, because like I said I am so used to seeing things this way. I wake up and I just go about my day.

It has been fruitful for me in the past to take stock my journey. Thankfully, because I posted here through ups and downs, I can follow what my state of mind was. When reading through my posts, a timeline emerges.

- June, July: wanting to hear from him, feeling sad and upset, not understanding his actions, nor my reactions, very well. feeling stuck. starting, slowly, to shift towards understanding my own background and how it set me up to find it so difficult to let go, to seek validation in someone else.

- August: going on a vacation that helped me `unplug` for a while, and starting to get comfortable or at least contemplate moving on completely.

- September: many changes in life (new city, new job), adjusting, allowing myself to grieve! I felt sad and it was normal and okay! looking at the bigger picture, about the pressure I put on myself to be `perfect`, and shifting towards being more authentic, accepting that I make mistakes, doing things because I want to do them instead of because I feel like I need to

- October: a healthy and whole Tina emerging, able to define myself more clearly. Knowing I actually take pride in being an adoring partner. still grieving the dream I had about a life with him. Knowing I am stubborn, naive, obsessive! But I can learn. Knowing the relationship was significant to me, and that`s all that matters. Integrating that things not working out between us doesn`t mean there is something deeply wrong with me.

-November: revisiting what occured towards the end of the relationship, how I interpret it and understand it, and integrating the relationship into the narrative of my life story as something I can learn from. Not needing his input because how I see things is what matters, and knowing that can change too as it has in the past few months. Finally getting access to a counselor ( ), who I was able to tell my story to, which has helped me gain a better sense of `now how did I get here?`. Not caring as much, also, about how I`d respond to him reaching out. Feeling like things are less serious than they used to seem. Still grieving, but more in a bittersweet way, because i am checking off life goals by myself that i had imagined we`d do together. But maybe that`s how it needed to be.

Oscillating is normal, and I expect that I will feel down again in the future, but it`s pretty cool to be writing about feeling this way.

[SaltyDawg]

Tina,

   Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I am glad you have a counselor and you are making good progress.

   Take care with self-care.

SD

[tina7868]

Thanks, SaltyDawg

Life has been all over the place lately it seems! I`ve been working hard, still settling in! It`s been about 3 and half months of living in a new city. I think it was a good decision for me. I`m focusing on things like making my space cozy.

I have had a few therapy sessions, and they`ve been helpful! My T takes an art therapy approach, so I have been drawing a lot. I think so far a safe space has been set to radically accept where I am in my grieving process. I am working towards understanding my feelings and attachment style more. I know now I am someone who loves and feels deeply, and that a big reason as to why this whole process has been hard for me, the nature of the relationship aside, is that I cared. There is something so validating and healing about someone reflecting that back to me. `I can tell you really cared`. I`ve been told this here as well, and it made me feel so understood.

I felt really down yesterday, it reminded me of how I used to feel. Thinking about his girlfriend, about how my dream never came to be. I miss him and would love to hear from him, but it`s out of my hands. This feeling didn`t last as long as it used to, and that`s confusing to me. Is this what moving forward looks like for me? Despite being stubborn and adamant on not letting go, it seems my heart is healing on its own. I didn`t need to tell it to stop caring, I didn`t need to push him away from me. These same thoughts that used to send me in a tailspin now just mildly annoy me.

[SaltyDawg]

Life has been all over the place lately it seems! I`ve been working hard, still settling in! It`s been about 3 and half months of living in a new city. I think it was a good decision for me. I`m focusing on things like making my space cozy.

From what you have described, you are taking the opportunity to create a new beginning for you, and you are taking care of yourself.  I personally like warm cozy spaces.


I have had a few therapy sessions, and they`ve been helpful! My T takes an art therapy approach, so I have been drawing a lot. I think so far a safe space has been set to radically accept where I am in my grieving process. I am working towards understanding my feelings and attachment style more. I know now I am someone who loves and feels deeply, and that a big reason as to why this whole process has been hard for me, the nature of the relationship aside, is that I cared. There is something so validating and healing about someone reflecting that back to me. `I can tell you really cared`. I`ve been told this here as well, and it made me feel so understood.

It doesn't really matter what kind of therapy you get, as long as it is working for you and you feel as though you are getting something out of it.  I do like the graphic arts; however, I am not too good at it, my forte is photography / A/V which is a bit different than drawing and/or painting.  If you didn't care, you wouldn't be here.  I personally feel as though anyone who post here on these boards cares about the welfare of others more than most people can or even understand.


I felt really down yesterday, it reminded me of how I used to feel. Thinking about his girlfriend, about how my dream never came to be. I miss him and would love to hear from him, but it`s out of my hands.

Some days will be good, some days will be bad, and some really bad.  It is so hard not to think about a past relationship, especially the most recent one.  You are right, 'it's out of your hands'.


This feeling didn`t last as long as it used to, and that`s confusing to me. Is this what moving forward looks like for me? Despite being stubborn and adamant on not letting go, it seems my heart is healing on its own. I didn`t need to tell it to stop caring, I didn`t need to push him away from me. These same thoughts that used to send me in a tailspin now just mildly annoy me.

I think you have great insight into what your healing looks like.  They say 'time heals all wounds'.  As you get further away from the breakup, the negative feelings won't last as long, nor will they be as intense as a fresh wound, and your heart is healing on its own.  Listen to your gut feelings, I personally think you are starting to move beyond the relationship with your ex, and grow stronger as what used to bother you so much now only you find it an annoyance.

Be sure to continue to do self care, moving to a new city in a new cozy space is part of your self care, and I think that is great; however, once you have settled you can distract yourself with other things.  Also do other self-care whatever that might look like for you.

Take care.

[tina7868]

Thanks again for your reply, SaltyDawg  . Bringing plants into my space has made a huge difference.

As the year draws to an end, I become reflective again. A little frustrated, I admit, at my internal struggle to let go. It feels like, at this point, I am very much limiting my own potential. I guess I`m sad, because a part of me hoped I would hear from him by this time of year. It`s been almost six months.

I also realize my own behaviour has been different : I didn`t reach out at all. Maybe, I`m thinking, what kept the cycle going for so long, was, in part, my own impulsivity. I noticed (why was I even checking...) that the account he had disactivated, the one we were communicating through, is now active again. It doesn`t mean anything, he`s living his life, but for some reason this point is on my mind.

It helps to remember why I chose to do this. I am not only respecting his boundaries, but I am also learning to live without the strong hold he had over me. It`s hard. I feel more decisive, I ask myself `what would make me happy?` more and more. I feel power in that, more control of my own life. Even if he was open to reconnecting, I want to be able to decide whether I want this or not, instead of `needing` to say yes, on whatever terms, as has been the case in the past.

A journey, indeed.

[SaltyDawg]

Tina,

   I must apologize for not responding sooner.

   I agree that bringing plants into your space is very comforting.  It is something that is alive, and can be very beautiful to look at.

   Regarding your internal struggles, I find there are good days, and bad days.  I cherish the good days, and as things heal the bad days will become fewer and fewer.

   It sounds as though you are ruminating again, about your ex.  The holidays are notorious for drawing out these feelings when the one you you have been with is not with you.  I too from time to time check up on old relationships, this is only human.  For my uBPD/uNPD/+exgf it was initially every few months, then years, I even checked just recently after not checking for more than four years.  This too, with time, will become less and less.
   

It helps to remember why I chose to do this. I am not only respecting his boundaries, but I am also learning to live without the strong hold he had over me. It`s hard. I feel more decisive, I ask myself `what would make me happy?` more and more. I feel power in that, more control of my own life. Even if he was open to reconnecting, I want to be able to decide whether I want this or not, instead of `needing` to say yes, on whatever terms, as has been the case in the past.

I am glad you are learning to adapt to your 'new normal' and reflect on this as it is showing me that you are very self-aware and are growing emotionally throughout this.

Now that it is the new year, perhaps make a new resolution for yourself, a goal of sorts on where you want to be in a year's time with all of this.  What do you think of this?

Take care with self-care.

SD

[thepixies21]

Hi Tina! I just wanted to say that reading this thread you made here has been extremely helpful for me, and it's been timely with some of the things I'm struggling with at the moment. I've never been good at being kind to myself, especially while going through this process of trying to leave my partner, so hearing you say that you're able to better ask yourself what you want rather than immediately needing to say yes was encouraging. I also appreciate you speaking about how you're now able to take pride in being an adoring partner. I think I'm discounting some of my good qualities as part of my codependency, and it's helpful to remember this. So thanks again!

[tina7868]

Thanks for your reply SaltyDawg

Hi Tina! I just wanted to say that reading this thread you made here has been extremely helpful for me, and it's been timely with some of the things I'm struggling with at the moment. I've never been good at being kind to myself, especially while going through this process of trying to leave my partner, so hearing you say that you're able to better ask yourself what you want rather than immediately needing to say yes was encouraging. I also appreciate you speaking about how you're now able to take pride in being an adoring partner. I think I'm discounting some of my good qualities as part of my codependency, and it's helpful to remember this. So thanks again!

Hi thepixies21! Thank you for your reply, it means a lot to me. It`s all a process!

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks again for your reply, SaltyDawg  . Bringing plants into my space has made a huge difference.

As the year draws to an end, I become reflective again. A little frustrated, I admit, at my internal struggle to let go. It feels like, at this point, I am very much limiting my own potential. I guess I`m sad, because a part of me hoped I would hear from him by this time of year. It`s been almost six months.

I also realize my own behaviour has been different : I didn`t reach out at all. Maybe, I`m thinking, what kept the cycle going for so long, was, in part, my own impulsivity. I noticed (why was I even checking...) that the account he had disactivated, the one we were communicating through, is now active again. It doesn`t mean anything, he`s living his life, but for some reason this point is on my mind.

It helps to remember why I chose to do this. I am not only respecting his boundaries, but I am also learning to live without the strong hold he had over me. It`s hard. I feel more decisive, I ask myself `what would make me happy?` more and more. I feel power in that, more control of my own life. Even if he was open to reconnecting, I want to be able to decide whether I want this or not, instead of `needing` to say yes, on whatever terms, as has been the case in the past.

A journey, indeed.

It has been a journey for you, but you are figuring it out. Honestly I think you just needed that little nudge in the right direction. For example...I didn't do anything special for you other than have you focus on your words you were writing because you already had the answers. For the most part you just needed some reassurance is all. You are a smart and tough cookie, but we all need that helping and guiding hand sometimes to help us see what we are blind to. If you are ever curious as to how far you have come I would ask you to go back over a lot of your material and look at tone, style of writing now as compared to your earlier stuff...there is a dramatic difference.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Thanks for your reply, SC. I did go back and read my earlier posts and...wow. I reacted by actually going `awww`   . I was so happy, for example, when I finally stopped reaching out to him, and now I want to say YES, this is the beginning of you deciding to choose yourself.

My T has been going in the direction of recognizing the addictive nature of the intermittent reinforcement that came with the relationship (which has still been affecting me). Like with gambling. Sometimes I wouldn`t get a response at all, sometimes a negative response, sometimes a few crumbs here and there, and, now and again, it felt like I was `winning big` (he would come back and want a relationship). I`ve admitted before that this resonates with me. In order to get to the root of the addiction, my T has asked me straightforwardly - what is it that the idea of this relationship brings to me?

I thought about it over the weekend. I had a good weekend. I went out dancing with my friends, went on a walk in nature with another friend, planned a trip with an old group of friends, got some adorable new plants. All very happy things that I love to do. I was present for them. Yet, at the end of the day, I felt sad, I could feel in my head this cloud that was my ex. To understand, you have to know where I am coming from. I always wanted to live an independent life, and when I met my ex, being with him became intricately woven with the idea of being free. I imagined going out and doing all these things, with him. I feel like now, all of these happy things feel bittersweet to me because he is not there as I had dreamed. And so, the idea of this relationship brings to me a sense of completion, a sense of my dream coming true. And I miss him when I do these things, even if we never did them together.

Of course, it wasn`t a dream especially founded in reality. I was reminded by a friend about how, when I went on a trip without my ex, he texted me about how he was talking to a girl, who didn`t know I was his girlfriend. Long story short, I got absorbed in the drama, he stopped talking to me and I spent a large chunk of that trip calling him and worrying about him. I think that now that I have more perspective I`d have realized that he wanted my attention because I was gone. But it wouldn`t have been the case necessarily that I could go on trips with my friends and he`d be there to support me or hear my stories when I got home.

[once removed]

Of course, it wasn`t a dream especially founded in reality.
...
But it wouldn`t have been the case necessarily that I could go on trips with my friends and he`d be there to support me or hear my stories when I got home.

i think thats a fair question. when we are mourning the loss of our dreams, to what extent were they realistic?

i imagined marrying my ex. when i would do so, that fantasy was impossible to separate from the reality of say, how we might parent. we had these knock down drag out fights, all the time...i felt pretty strongly about our future children never being exposed to the kind of fighting we did. would that have even been possible? and of course now, i can imagine all kinds of other potential tensions.

so, not to play "dodged a bullet", but when we take the people that we were, and follow the relationship to its logical conclusion, does it look at all like the dream we have? or, if we take who we are now, and put ourselves back in that relationship, what would it look like? would we even connect?

[tina7868]

so, not to play "dodged a bullet", but when we take the people that we were, and follow the relationship to its logical conclusion, does it look at all like the dream we have? or, if we take who we are now, and put ourselves back in that relationship, what would it look like? would we even connect?

To answer your first question, it would not have looked at all like how I imagine. It would have been a mess. I know now that I needed the space to learn about my own shortcomings, and in turn become a more compassionate, patient and understanding partner. I needed to achieve things for myself, so that I could be more confident, and thus not feel as dependent on my partner.

The second question touches on a soft spot for me. I think that I recognize that I have changed, and if I was back  in that relationship I would be less reactive and entrenched in the drama, and thus able to understand the underlying reasons my ex would behave the way he did. I think I would be better equipped to care for him and love him.

But that brings up a few other questions. Were my insecurities and dependence on him from the past the very things that brought him to connect with me, on a certain level? And, as I am not familiar with the person he is today, would the present day versions of us even connect? Was the desire I had of him and I being together incompatible with my own growth?

[tina7868]

I`ve been grieving a lot this week! I am not being hard on myself for this, I know it`s part of the process. It`s okay to feel emotional, and to feel sad. I talked about this during my last therapy session. During the session, when asked what I would want to talk with my ex about, I realized it was mostly just catching up with a friend-type stuff, like how is work going, what projects is he working on, what tv shows is he watching, how is his family, is his cat still crabby...and so I revisited the idea of reaching out to him.

He was fine, previously, until I brought up talking about the end of our relationship. That`s when he set really high boundaries. I wouldn`t be respecting his boundaries even if I did just ask how he was doing. And in all odds, despite the length of time that has passed, he would take my message as an aggression, and maybe escalate the situation. So basically I`m writing here to talk myself out of doing something I`d regret. The ball is really in his court.

[Pook075]

For me, it was probably a full 15 to 16 months before I was 100% over my ex and not thinking about her in a relationship-type way.  A good part of that wasn't even about getting back together, it was me wanting to prove her wrong or tell her off if I ever got the chance.  I did have that chance recently though and saw no point in it; there was nothing left to gain.

The strange thing was, I "thought" I was over things at 6 months, at 9 months, at 12 months, etc.  Anger and sadness have a way of lingering in the background though and I've learned that it's okay not to be okay sometimes.  I was grieving a loss and there are no timelines, so hopefully you realize that as well.

A big part has been this community and folks who understand out stories- it may have taken years without understanding the context of why BPD relationships implode so spectacularly.  These are sad stories for everyone involved and it's a celebration to see someone finally move on.  Hopefully you realize the progress you've made!

[Augustine]

Pook raises a very good point.

Based on my anecdotal experience at 7.5 months post relationship, I’m functional, but not fully independent of the relationship’s negative influences.

The healing timeline on betrayal trauma is a minimum of 18 months post relationship, and once you pass that threshold, it represents a profound sea change.

[OKrunch]

Pook on point as always.

The strange thing was, I "thought" I was over things at 6 months, at 9 months, at 12 months, etc.  Anger and sadness have a way of lingering in the background though and I've learned that it's okay not to be okay sometimes.  I was grieving a loss and there are no timelines, so hopefully you realize that as well.

I am at about 16 months out from the actualy breakup, but we recycled several times over 2023.
We were only apart for 9months during the first breakup, that it wasnt close to enough time of no contact for me to heal.

So in reality Its been about 7 months since last time we were intimate.

Pook, and Augustine, your comments were on point and very much what I needed to read today.
I constantly berate myself for "Not being over it yet, even though its been over a year"

[tina7868]

Thank you for all your support! I guess I`m finding my way through new territory. Sometimes I`m happy, sometimes I`m sad, sometimes I`m hopeful, sometimes I`m peaceful. I think every time I get through one of these `sad` periods, I learn something. This time, I think I realized just how much my beliefs and magical thinking can cloud my judgement.

I used to pray to hear from my ex, try and force myself into some sort of `letting go` mindset, so many things, with the desire always in the back of my mind that I could somehow influence the way things worked out. The thing is, it seemed to work! I would hear from him. So then, when it seemed like no perspective or change within myself had any effect on what I was experiencing, it made me feel very sad. As in, I was doing something wrong, and it made me face (again) that I could never hear from him again.

It`s okay to miss him. It`s okay to feel sad. But it`s an unhealthy coping mechanism to think that my thoughts somehow influence any other person`s actions. It had nothing to do with me then, and it has nothing to do with me now. I can only focus on me and with good intentions and with myself as my priority. The rest, I can trust the universe with, without being attached to any particular outcome.

[cranmango]

Hi tina—it sounds like you are disentangling your own daily emotional well-being from the daily presence/absence of your ex. It is indeed ok to miss him and to feel sad at times. And it’s ok to feel happy, too. And all of the other things.

When my ex left the last time, there was a huge gaping (emotional) hole in my life. 18 months later and I am grateful for how much it has filled in. Getting to know new people, seeing old friends, revisiting old hobbies, and having new experiences. My life feels much fuller than it did 18 months ago.

I still miss her. But these days it’s more of an echo than a gaping wound.

For what it’s worth, I’ve noticed how frequently you reply to other threads to offer support and advice. And I’ve appreciated reading your posts. You have a lot of insights to share!

[tina7868]

Hi tina—it sounds like you are disentangling your own daily emotional well-being from the daily presence/absence of your ex. It is indeed ok to miss him and to feel sad at times. And it’s ok to feel happy, too. And all of the other things.

When my ex left the last time, there was a huge gaping (emotional) hole in my life. 18 months later and I am grateful for how much it has filled in. Getting to know new people, seeing old friends, revisiting old hobbies, and having new experiences. My life feels much fuller than it did 18 months ago.

I still miss her. But these days it’s more of an echo than a gaping wound.

For what it’s worth, I’ve noticed how frequently you reply to other threads to offer support and advice. And I’ve appreciated reading your posts. You have a lot of insights to share!

Thank you so much for your kind words, cranmango! I hope you`ve been well.

It seems like, even if you do all the things you`re `supposed` to do after a breakup (with BPD involved or not)...sometimes you`ll still feel sad. It takes time. And it`s okay. That`s the flip side that comes with really loving someone. It doesn`t mean there is anything wrong with any of us for feeling this way. It just is.

I still need to convince myself, sometimes, that I shouldn`t reach out to him. How easy it would be! The solution to my anxiety, my brain tells me. But, I don`t. If he wanted to be in contact, he would make it clear. It isn`t up to me to impose that on someone. It sucks, but that`s how it is.

I have taken up a lot of crafting hobbies. I like making things with my hands. As I was building a miniature shelf for my miniature dollhouse, I felt a wave of feeling ready to date again  . We`ll see how that goes.

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you so much for your kind words, cranmango! I hope you`ve been well.

It seems like, even if you do all the things you`re `supposed` to do after a breakup (with BPD involved or not)...sometimes you`ll still feel sad. It takes time. And it`s okay. That`s the flip side that comes with really loving someone. It doesn`t mean there is anything wrong with any of us for feeling this way. It just is.

I still need to convince myself, sometimes, that I shouldn`t reach out to him. How easy it would be! The solution to my anxiety, my brain tells me. But, I don`t. If he wanted to be in contact, he would make it clear. It isn`t up to me to impose that on someone. It sucks, but that`s how it is.

I have taken up a lot of crafting hobbies. I like making things with my hands. As I was building a miniature shelf for my miniature dollhouse, I felt a wave of feeling ready to date again  . We`ll see how that goes.

Just take your time. One step at a time. If you do decide to date...do just that...date multiple people and have fun and don't make it so serious and don't take it so serious. A switch will flip when it is time for the more formal stuff organically. 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Just take your time. One step at a time. If you do decide to date...do just that...date multiple people and have fun and don't make it so serious and don't take it so serious. A switch will flip when it is time for the more formal stuff organically.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks SC! My initial thoughts on being back in the dating pool (specifically a dating app)...well, initially, it was very validating to have so many likes, which is the experience of many girls on these I`m sure. I`m cute! I have a lot to offer! However, overall, it`s been heartbreaking in a different kind of way. I can imagine my ex going through this same process (he met his girlfriend on an app), which is a tedious process let`s not hide that, and still powering through in order to find someone to have a relationship with. Meanwhile, yes I am taking a `let`s do this for fun` kind of approach, but I`m still comparing everyone to him and even with all his flaws I don`t think one person on here can hold a candle to him (for me).

Weirdly, I wish I could tell him about this, because we would laugh about it together. I also feel like his girlfriend is lucky to have found him there. I imagine them meeting and talking kind of like I`m doing and...yeah. It hurts a lot. 

[tina7868]

Part of me genuinely wants to try though! I know I`m more ready than I was before. I want to get dressed up and flirt with someone and have a good time. I had been so sad for so long, I am ready to do lighter things just for the story.

Part of me also thinks that it would make more sense, or even make me more attractive, if I heard from him again and I had all these dating stories to talk about instead of seeming to have been pining over him the whole time. I know this is not the best motivation, and I haven`t been pining over him (I have been learning about myself, growing, trying new things and making new friends), but still. I want to be honest and there is that aspect.

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks SC! My initial thoughts on being back in the dating pool (specifically a dating app)...well, initially, it was very validating to have so many likes, which is the experience of many girls on these I`m sure. I`m cute! I have a lot to offer! However, overall, it`s been heartbreaking in a different kind of way. I can imagine my ex going through this same process (he met his girlfriend on an app), which is a tedious process let`s not hide that, and still powering through in order to find someone to have a relationship with. Meanwhile, yes I am taking a `let`s do this for fun` kind of approach, but I`m still comparing everyone to him and even with all his flaws I don`t think one person on here can hold a candle to him (for me).

Weirdly, I wish I could tell him about this, because we would laugh about it together. I also feel like his girlfriend is lucky to have found him there. I imagine them meeting and talking kind of like I`m doing and...yeah. It hurts a lot. 

That is your hardest step to overcome right now...removing him from the pedestal you have placed him upon. He is just another guy. Not a god. Just a normal dude.

Most importantly...your dating will be essentially making friends and having experiences until you can overcome the comparing everyone else to him because the people you date will pick up on the energy that they will be considered a fall back option or will feel like second best. Remember what I have said in the past...you get back what you put out to the world. The universe and energies you put out into it are like a mirror.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[jaded7]

Thank you so much for your kind words, cranmango! I hope you`ve been well.

It seems like, even if you do all the things you`re `supposed` to do after a breakup (with BPD involved or not)...sometimes you`ll still feel sad. It takes time. And it`s okay. That`s the flip side that comes with really loving someone. It doesn`t mean there is anything wrong with any of us for feeling this way. It just is.

I still need to convince myself, sometimes, that I shouldn`t reach out to him. How easy it would be! The solution to my anxiety, my brain tells me. But, I don`t. If he wanted to be in contact, he would make it clear. It isn`t up to me to impose that on someone. It sucks, but that`s how it is.

I have taken up a lot of crafting hobbies. I like making things with my hands. As I was building a miniature shelf for my miniature dollhouse, I felt a wave of feeling ready to date again  . We`ll see how that goes.

Just checking in and saying good job Tina. I see so much of myself in you, and in your feelings. You seem like such a kind and nice person. Like you, I get hard on myself for not being 'over it' by now. Like you and others I wonder how long this will go on.

Thanks for all your contributions here, they are helpful to others who may not even be commenting.

[tina7868]

That is your hardest step to overcome right now...removing him from the pedestal you have placed him upon. He is just another guy. Not a god. Just a normal dude.

I`m going to go deeper into this, because it`s a really good point. I recognize that I have him on a pedestal, when I shouldn`t. But going down this train of thought makes me think, and affects the perspectives I have. If he`s just another guy...then I`m just another girl? I guess I`m okay with that. But then I revisit how important he was to me and it seems to trigger my core values of never giving up when I have my heart set on something.

Most importantly...your dating will be essentially making friends and having experiences until you can overcome the comparing everyone else to him because the people you date will pick up on the energy that they will be considered a fall back option or will feel like second best. Remember what I have said in the past...you get back what you put out to the world. The universe and energies you put out into it are like a mirror.

It makes me wonder again, with curiosity, how this played out in his relationship. Three times before he stopped talking to me altogether, he said his girlfriend didn`t want us to speak. What kind of energy was he putting out? It seems to have worked out for him regardless. I know it doesn`t really matter at this point, but again, I just want to be honest about where my mind is going.

Would it be the worst idea to send an open invitation to talk sometime? Even writing this feels silly, given how incredibly clear he was on not wanting to talk again. A girl can hope. I don`t know why, after so many months of not even feeling an inkling of wanting to message him, I`m at a point where it seems like something I want to do.

Just checking in and saying good job Tina. I see so much of myself in you, and in your feelings. You seem like such a kind and nice person. Like you, I get hard on myself for not being 'over it' by now. Like you and others I wonder how long this will go on.

Thanks for all your contributions here, they are helpful to others who may not even be commenting.

Thank you so much jaded7! This community is a really special place. I have learned amongst other things to be more honest about my feelings and vulnerable with others, which has made my relationships so much deeper. Even now, I know these thoughts I share are not what my `ideal` self would be thinking, but hey, it`s how I feel! And that`s okay!

[cranmango]

Hi tina—really important insight into your core value of not giving up on something you’ve set your heart, too. I say that as someone who has a very similar core value. I think it is one thing that made it so hard for me to really sit with the breakup, accept the reality that my relationship was over, and move forward with my life.

Not sure if this will resonate with you, but I’ve been mulling over the idea of what it means to show love. Normally I show love with concrete actions toward the people I care about. How do I show my love to someone that isn’t in my life anymore?

A powerful concept I’ve learned from reading these boards is loving from afar. I’m still rooting for my ex, I care about her, and I hope she finds her way in life. The best thing I can do for her right now is to give her that space to figure out her life and (hopefully) grow.

On a daily basis, it goes against all my instincts—I’m a fixer, I like to be involved, I like to maintain contact. Distance is hard for me. I’ve never really sat with these ideas until now, and it’s been a learning process.

Part of this for me was accepting the reality that she and I weren’t happy together at the end. I wanted things to get better of course, but the reality is that they simply weren’t. Maybe for us, “getting better” means we both have to grow separately as individuals, because we weren’t growing to ether as a couple.

So maybe it’s worth sitting with the idea of what it means to you to “give up,” why that feels so hard, and if there are other ways of translating your core value to action in your life.

[tina7868]

Your post is really insightful, cranmango.

I have finally come to terms with the fact that, I loved him much more than he loved me. There, I said it. This blinded me. Especially towards the end, when yes, he did lead me on in some ways, but on my end I was so stubborn and determined that I ignored what was right in front of me. If he wanted to be with me, he would be. And he`s not, and he wasn`t able to be that person for me.

And that`s okay. I mean it sucks, but it`s okay. It`s not personal, not even a little bit. What I learned out of this insight is, wow, I am grateful I have such a big capacity to love. And imagine how beautiful it will be when I can give that love to the right person for me. I also think, and it brings me comfort in a weird way, that my ex was lucky to have been loved like that. I think he knew, I really do. I`m sure it got annoying, but I`m sure he knew.

I also realized (I mean I knew this for a while) that he and I both saw love, and relationships, in a different way. He had a certain `transactional`, defensive perspective on things (`what would you even get from being my friend?`) that I used to think meant he didn`t know me (`I loved you and that`s why...? How do I even explain that?`). Now, I genuinely think he doesn`t see things as I do. On this board, I think we seem to share similar views on this, but when you take on the perspective that this isn`t the case for everyone, things start to make a lot more sense.

Maybe for us, “getting better” means we both have to grow separately as individuals, because we weren’t growing together as a couple.

So maybe it’s worth sitting with the idea of what it means to you to “give up,” why that feels so hard, and if there are other ways of translating your core value to action in your life.

That certainly hits home for me.

I think, until now, this core value means that I put myself in vulnerable positions time and time again. I used to hate myself for it, think something was wrong with me but, as those who have been reading my story for a while might have noticed, this vulnerability has really opened up my life.

Your post makes me think about a topic that came up during my last therapy session. Unconditional love. I was saying that I believe my mom loves me unconditionally (which was big because I used to think it was dependant on my life choices). Then, when I was speaking of relationships, I said that I guess that kind of love shouldn`t be unconditional, because then you can end up in really bad situations and not leave because of this misplaced unconditional love. As I was saying this, however, I felt a tug telling me I am not capable of applying this in my own situation. I still have a lot of love for him, and I don`t think anything he says will change that. He doesn`t `deserve` it, I know it`s misplaced, but isn`t that what makes it so hard?

[SinisterComplex]

I`m going to go deeper into this, because it`s a really good point. I recognize that I have him on a pedestal, when I shouldn`t. But going down this train of thought makes me think, and affects the perspectives I have. If he`s just another guy...then I`m just another girl? I guess I`m okay with that. But then I revisit how important he was to me and it seems to trigger my core values of never giving up when I have my heart set on something.

It makes me wonder again, with curiosity, how this played out in his relationship. Three times before he stopped talking to me altogether, he said his girlfriend didn`t want us to speak. What kind of energy was he putting out? It seems to have worked out for him regardless. I know it doesn`t really matter at this point, but again, I just want to be honest about where my mind is going.

Would it be the worst idea to send an open invitation to talk sometime? Even writing this feels silly, given how incredibly clear he was on not wanting to talk again. A girl can hope. I don`t know why, after so many months of not even feeling an inkling of wanting to message him, I`m at a point where it seems like something I want to do.

Thank you so much jaded7! This community is a really special place. I have learned amongst other things to be more honest about my feelings and vulnerable with others, which has made my relationships so much deeper. Even now, I know these thoughts I share are not what my `ideal` self would be thinking, but hey, it`s how I feel! And that`s okay!

So, its best to keep yourself humble and down to earth and view yourself as just another girl, but know your own value. Make sense? You are still focused on him. What he does, who he is with, etc is of no concern to you or shouldn't be. Time to focus on YOU.

In regard to the energy he puts out...well I think I will take the approach that boundaries are something you have to focus on. Why bring that up...you keep him coming back to you because you enable it and allow it to happen so it essentially doesn't matter what energy he is putting out. Remember boundaries are for you and not necessarily for other people.

Your core values are yours and whatever you want them to be. No judgement here. I would just say to open your mind up to proceeding with situations with more of a pros and cons list in your head instead of just having your heart set on something and then refusing to give up. Ask yourself...is it good for me? Is it what I want? Does it benefit me? More or less...make critical big picture thinking a part of the equation.

So let's focus more on YOU moving forward and less on him. Sound like a plan?

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-  

[tina7868]

So let's focus more on YOU moving forward and less on him. Sound like a plan?

Yes! Thank you, SC, for once again bringing perspective to the situation. I do want to focus on me, and I am actively working on that.

That being said  , I felt incredibly sad this past week. I think what has finally sunk in is how I cared a lot more about him than he did about me. I got to a point where I just wrote to him. I wrote a sincere message about how I was sorry about the way things ended, how I missed him and cared about him. He replied, without much delay, that he wasn`t interested in revisiting the past, but wished me well. I told him I wanted to leave the past behind, and hoped he could just think about us talking again. He asked me what was in it for me in all this, and again, I replied sincerely, telling him I still cared a lot and that for the past few months, I got to know myself, and it is part of who I am. He said I could share how I have been, and he would share if he felt comfortable.

So, that`s where we left off. I updated him on work and my plans for the future, since he asked, and I have been giving it space while still engaging. I am happy to talk to him, I really did miss him a lot. I can feel that I am better at expressing myself, and regulating my emotions, than I was before.

[SinisterComplex]

Yes! Thank you, SC, for once again bringing perspective to the situation. I do want to focus on me, and I am actively working on that.

That being said  , I felt incredibly sad this past week. I think what has finally sunk in is how I cared a lot more about him than he did about me. I got to a point where I just wrote to him. I wrote a sincere message about how I was sorry about the way things ended, how I missed him and cared about him. He replied, without much delay, that he wasn`t interested in revisiting the past, but wished me well. I told him I wanted to leave the past behind, and hoped he could just think about us talking again. He asked me what was in it for me in all this, and again, I replied sincerely, telling him I still cared a lot and that for the past few months, I got to know myself, and it is part of who I am. He said I could share how I have been, and he would share if he felt comfortable.

So, that`s where we left off. I updated him on work and my plans for the future, since he asked, and I have been giving it space while still engaging. I am happy to talk to him, I really did miss him a lot. I can feel that I am better at expressing myself, and regulating my emotions, than I was before.

Ultimately you should never let the thought of who cares more about who enter your mind. Why? There is no way to know for sure and thinking about it actually doesn't bring any good energy...only doubt and negativity. Again this is where I reinforce you...know your value. You are a good person and you have a lot to offer and nothing changes that regardless of what anyone else thinks. You have nothing to prove to anyone other than yourself.

Let me be my full unadulterated blunt force trauma self when I say this...You Kick $$!!! No one else gets to determine your worth...only YOU. You did not need my approval (even though you have it) or anyone else's (that means him as well) because my dear you are awesome all on your own. Be the Bad@$$ rock star on stage at a concert that you are.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Ultimately you should never let the thought of who cares more about who enter your mind. Why? There is no way to know for sure and thinking about it actually doesn't bring any good energy...only doubt and negativity. Again this is where I reinforce you...know your value. You are a good person and you have a lot to offer and nothing changes that regardless of what anyone else thinks. You have nothing to prove to anyone other than yourself.

Let me be my full unadulterated blunt force trauma self when I say this...You Kick Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)$$!!! No one else gets to determine your worth...only YOU. You did not need my approval (even though you have it) or anyone else's (that means him as well) because my dear you are awesome all on your own. Be the Bad@$$ rock star on stage at a concert that you are.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks again SC, this is just what I needed. Even when talking to my T about it, I ultimately feel like I reached out because well...it was what I wanted to do.

My perspective is that I have learned a lot and changed, and, if he is willing, I want to give it another try and see if a new relationship is possible. If it works, it works, and if it doesn`t, it wasn`t meant to be. I am aware of pitfalls I have fallen into in the past that lead me towards a painful state of being, such as blaming myself if he didn`t answer, wanting to escalate things too fast, taking his responses personally (and as an indication of my worth and value), not being in touch with how I actually felt.

My T brought up how different aspects of our lives (career, friendship, self-care, relationships) take up mental space. This really resonated with me, because for a long time I wondered why, despite having an objectively busy life, I would focus on this small aspect. I would like to learn to minimize the `when will he text me oh no he hasn`t texted me` bubble. I thought in order to do that I needed to get even busier, which works to a certain extent, but when I am so busy that I get out of touch with my feelings that tends to backfire too. There must be a balance.

[once removed]

have you spoken to him again?

[tina7868]

He just asked me whether I planned on settling down where I’ve moved to. He said it was more expensive here, and I said that I make more money here . I don’t know if that came off as arrogant…After that, I asked him whether he had a chance to ski this season, that was a few days ago and he hasn’t replied.

It doesn’t surprise me that he isn’t very enthusiastic about engaging, he doesn’t owe me anything and clearly I’m the one who felt more impetus (is that the right word here?) to reach out. I’m just happy the door is a bit more open than before, but I don’t think there is anything else for me to do without being pushy.

[SaltyDawg]

Tina,

   Once removed asked you a question...

have you spoken to him again?

   You answered in the affirmative, indicating that you have opened a door to your ex.  I do realize the old cliche of "absence makes the heart grow fonder" is likely at play here.  There also may be a seasonal component to your behavior as well, it is dark, damp, and cold where I am, I am wondering if it is that way for you too?  Combined with you are in a new city, away from any kind of support system, and you are longing for the familiar to provide you with some level of comfort - am I understanding you, or am I reading too much into this?

   Your 'ex' is an 'ex' for a reason.  Yet, you are opening the door, and forgive me in advance for this observation, but I am going to be incredibly blunt here - you are attempting to recycle him back into your life, something that normally happens to us with our ex-pwBPD.  This happened to me with my uBPD/uNPD/+exgf back in 2001 that she ghosted me in 2000, and when I collected my belongings, I ended that relationship in scorched earth manner so she couldn't come back, and a different recycle attempt happened to two months after I ended stopped communicating with a dBPD-T last year.

   I know that you have justified this by saying in a previous post:

Thanks again SC, this is just what I needed. Even when talking to my T about it, I ultimately feel like I reached out because well...it was what I wanted to do.

My perspective is that I have learned a lot and changed, and, if he is willing, I want to give it another try and see if a new relationship is possible. If it works, it works, and if it doesn`t, it wasn`t meant to be. I am aware of pitfalls I have fallen into in the past that lead me towards a painful state of being, such as blaming myself if he didn`t answer, wanting to escalate things too fast, taking his responses personally (and as an indication of my worth and value), not being in touch with how I actually felt.

My T brought up how different aspects of our lives (career, friendship, self-care, relationships) take up mental space. This really resonated with me, because for a long time I wondered why, despite having an objectively busy life, I would focus on this small aspect. I would like to learn to minimize the `when will he text me oh no he hasn`t texted me` bubble. I thought in order to do that I needed to get even busier, which works to a certain extent, but when I am so busy that I get out of touch with my feelings that tends to backfire too. There must be a balance.

   I did pulled up your original posts and read your March/April 2022 posts, and I see a very similar pattern, at that time he lived in a city 4 hours away, and you were making all the moves to see him, and now you are initiating contact with him (again?).  You also grew up in a home where mental illness existed, so you are likely a caretaker type personality and are likely codependent (more on this later).   You also know that he is diagnosed with BPD, yet you are still drawn to him.  From my perspective, you seem to be drawn to the drama, like a moth to a flame, that this dynamic has provided for you.  In essence I feel that you are playing with emotional fire that you are drawn to, by opening the door and luring him back into your life only to suffer, as you put it, into a "painful state of being" of being burned by getting too close to the BPD flame, again.

   You have a self-awareness as you have indicated that you have a desire of "wanting to escalate things too fast" - as I am sure you are aware, this is not healthy.  Furthermore you also said, "taking his responses personally (and as an indication of my worth and value)".  No one, should have that power over you, only you get to determine your own self-worth and value.  I also noticed you said, "blaming myself if he didn't answer" -- if he doesn't answer this 'opening of the door', as you don't want to be 'pushy', I would like you to soak in the feeling of him not answering, and then explore this feeling with your therapist.

   I feel as though you have had a lot of growth here; however, I can help but feel that your emotions are getting the better of you right now, and you are moving towards your own cycle of recycling a borderline relationship.  I am curious, not having read your full story, nor am I aware of the entire 8 year history (you mentioned an additional 6 in 2022) of this relationship - how many relationship recycles have you had?  Is this the 3rd, or are there more?  How is this one going to be different from the previous one(s), especially as he is diagnosed with BPD?  I am asking because you said, "If it works, it works, and if it doesn`t, it wasn`t meant to be."  How many times is it going to take to figure out 'it wasn't meant to be' if it didn't happen on the first recycle?

   I know I have many codependent traits and patterns (according to Google >90% of everyone has some of these patterns and characteristics), so I am going to share a document with you to see if any of these self-assessment patterns resonate with you in your life, if they do, it could be worth exploring with your therapist.  https://coda.org/meeting-materials/patterns-and-characteristics-2011/

   I hope I wasn't too harsh on you reflecting your statements back to you from a different perspective/context; however, I do see a pattern repeating for a 3rd or more number of times, and out of concern for you, I do not want to see you hurt again.

   No matter how things play out in the future with him, please do some self-care, whatever that might look like for you.

   Take care.

SD

[tina7868]

I hope I wasn't too harsh on you reflecting your statements back to you from a different perspective/context; however, I do see a pattern repeating for a 3rd or more number of times, and out of concern for you, I do not want to see you hurt again.

On the contrary, I`m thankful, this questioning is one of the many reasons I feel like I grow so much this space  . I`d much rather have my eyes open, and have considered different perspectives in order to better understand my true motivations. I don`t know if it`s the drama that I am drawn to so much as the familiarity. I have reached out in a similar way to friends who I drifted away from (although those relationships did not have as much baggage). It`s hard for me to let go, and that`s related to my upbringing, and my attachment style.

We spoke over the phone the other day, for 4 hours. There just seemed to be so much to talk about. He is in a relationship and just moved in with his gf, and, to my own surprise, it felt fine to me to hear about that part of his life. I felt happy for him. I asked about her, and she seems really nice. I think I feel happy enough with who I am that, unlike a year ago, I don`t feel like there is any comparison. I just am me  . We touched on the past as well, and it was healing for me. I shared some of the reflections that I had here with him, and felt like I was able to communicate more openly (and be vulnerable!) because of my own development and because he was receptive. He acknowledged how we meant a lot to each other, having known each other for altogether almost 9 years now. I laughed and smiled in the way that I feel I only do with him. Not in a sappy way, but a matter of fact, this is the unique way I feel about him. He said he had overreacted the last time we spoke, because he was worried about his standing in his relationship.

The only moment I felt uneasy was when he talked about how, in a physical way, he feels like we were more compatible than he is with his girlfriend. I moved on from the topic, and I don`t think there was any deeper meaning behind it, because he then went on to talk about how they are planning a trip together.

I feel best right now when I tell myself that there are no romantic feelings between us, and I am welcoming a new friend into my life. What I meant by escalate things was talk more frequently, like I would with my other close friends. I thought it would take a while to get to that point.

I think it`s a good point that I need to sit with the feeling of his interest waning, or him getting busy with other aspects of his life. I go back to that concept my therapist talked to me about, how I should divide my mental space accordingly to how much importance I give to things. I think this time could be different because I am different, there has been space between us, and there are clear boundaries that make the relationship less complicated in my eyes. Time will tell, but for now I`m enjoying what feels a barrier being disolved.

[SaltyDawg]

Tina,

I took some time answering, as I am asking more difficult questions below and ask that you reflect and process what I have written, and share them with your therapist as some of these questions you might find to be a little or somewhat triggering; however, they are designed to encourage you think of the possible implied consequences if you continue to move in this direction.

On the contrary, I`m thankful, this questioning is one of the many reasons I feel like I grow so much this space  . I`d much rather have my eyes open, and have considered different perspectives in order to better understand my true motivations. I don`t know if it`s the drama that I am drawn to so much as the familiarity. I have reached out in a similar way to friends who I drifted away from (although those relationships did not have as much baggage). It`s hard for me to let go, and that`s related to my upbringing, and my attachment style.

I agree, it is incredibly hard to let go once you're trauma bonded to a person, especially with an attachment style that my T has identified in me.

We spoke over the phone the other day, for 4 hours. There just seemed to be so much to talk about. He is in a relationship and just moved in with his gf, and, to my own surprise, it felt fine to me to hear about that part of his life. I felt happy for him. I asked about her, and she seems really nice. I think I feel happy enough with who I am that, unlike a year ago, I don`t feel like there is any comparison. I just am me  . We touched on the past as well, and it was healing for me. I shared some of the reflections that I had here with him, and felt like I was able to communicate more openly (and be vulnerable!) because of my own development and because he was receptive. He acknowledged how we meant a lot to each other, having known each other for altogether almost 9 years now. I laughed and smiled in the way that I feel I only do with him. Not in a sappy way, but a matter of fact, this is the unique way I feel about him. He said he had overreacted the last time we spoke, because he was worried about his standing in his relationship.

Tina, I am glad you were able to talk to him, and got yourself a lot of closure with your ex - please cherish this phone call that you had with him.  However, I am going to keep it real for you here.  Put yourself in his gf's shoes, and if you learned your new boyfriend was talking on the phone for 4 hours straight with his exgf - how would that make you feel with your attachment style which is likely very similar to his and possibly hers too?  If you do not want to sabotage his new relationship with his new gf, I would suggest limiting your communication with him to strictly necessary stuff like getting back items that have emotional attachment to.

He is a diagnosed borderline, and is naturally codependent, as all borderlines are codependents.

The only moment I felt uneasy was when he talked about how, in a physical way, he feels like we were more compatible than he is with his girlfriend. I moved on from the topic, and I don`t think there was any deeper meaning behind it, because he then went on to talk about how they are planning a trip together.

You are a women, he is a man - most men view sex a lot differently in a platonic relationship, even a borderline man a lot differently than women do.  I know this is a general statement; however, I believe it to be true - especially since it made you feel uneasy when he talked about this topic, I recommend to follow your gut feeling on this, and not talk about it again.

Here is an interesting article on the topic:  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/

I feel best right now when I tell myself that there are no romantic feelings between us, and I am welcoming a new friend into my life. What I meant by escalate things was talk more frequently, like I would with my other close friends. I thought it would take a while to get to that point.

I am going to point you back to the article I just posted above.  Then look at your relationship with him from the perspective of his new girlfriend - what do you think his new girlfriend will think when he is more than casually 'escalating things' with you with a lot more frequently having conversations which have (real or imagined) intimate overtones from her perspective?

I know you 'tell yourself' that you have no romantic feelings for him; however, my 'gut' feeling is that this is not true, and from the behaviors you have written about yourself earlier in this thread, my feeling is that you are still wanting a non-romantic, platonic, but intimate relationship with him.  Intimate is intimate whether it contains a physical aspect to it or not.

I think it`s a good point that I need to sit with the feeling of his interest waning, or him getting busy with other aspects of his life. I go back to that concept my therapist talked to me about, how I should divide my mental space accordingly to how much importance I give to things. I think this time could be different because I am different, there has been space between us, and there are clear boundaries that make the relationship less complicated in my eyes. Time will tell, but for now I`m enjoying what feels a barrier being disolved.

I know that you see the relationship as being less complicated... (as you have delineated a clear no physical boundary) However... If you 'escalate' the relationship with him, how could his interest in you continue to 'wane'?

I know in your mind, you have set clear boundaries.  I only see a boundary of no physical intimacy; however, I do not see a clear boundary of an emotionally intimate boundary.  I am wondering if you have even considered setting an emotionally intimate boundary, and if you have, what that looks like for you, and him, especially as you have clearly indicated that you are feeling that this intimate barrier (another word for boundary) is being dissolved?   ...and you are 'enjoying' this return to emotional intimacy.

Again, I am asking difficult questions, as you clearly indicated that you are 'thankful' for this feedback when you stated, "I`m thankful, this questioning is one of the many reasons I feel like I grow so much [in] this space".

My feeling is that your attachment style, and your ex's diagnosed borderline's attachment style will result in the same or likely a very similar dynamic you had before, at least initially without the physical component to it, but the emotional component will more than likely be there.

I know if I were your bf's new gf, and with you being a woman yourself, who has been repeatedly intimately involved with him over the years - how would that make you feel?  At a bare minimum, I know I would not be happy at all about this, as it would be crossing my boundary on his personal behavior - I left my uBPD/uNPD/+exgf for this very reason - this is a possibility if you continue to ramp up your communication with him.  I know I wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior of him, would you?

Also, many borderlines, not all, have trouble remaining loyal to their partners.  Being mindful as he has already indicated favoritism to your physicality over hers, and reading the article - what do you think is really going through his mind as he has already made you emotionally uncomfortable on this topic?

Please ponder these questions, perhaps, talk to your therapists about them too before moving forward on your wants in your relationship with your ex?

In any event, please do self-care & take care.

SD

[tina7868]

Thanks for your reply, SD! It`s certainly given me a lot to think about. I certainly don`t mean to be a wall, or get defensive. I think I am optimistic (naive?) in believing that I can balance all these elements as the person I am today. I think what is key for me is to continue to enjoy my life outside of talking to him. Keeping up with things that I like to do for myself, the life I build for myself, my routines and my hobbies.

[SaltyDawg]

Thanks for your reply, SD! It`s certainly given me a lot to think about. I certainly don`t mean to be a wall, or get defensive. I think I am optimistic (naive?) in believing that I can balance all these elements as the person I am today. I think what is key for me is to continue to enjoy my life outside of talking to him. Keeping up with things that I like to do for myself, the life I build for myself, my routines and my hobbies.

Tina,

   You're welcome.  I know if our roles were reversed, I would be taken aback and be defensive, and wanted to help you realize there is more to this dynamic than just you and him.  While you may be able to balance all of these elements with him; however, there is an unknown factor of his new girlfriend in the mix, which can easily push things out of balance where everything comes crashing down where you might become the target of his blame.

   I don't want to see you hurt, nor do I want to see him being hurt, or his new girlfriend either, for that matter.  I agree with you that your focus should be on yourself and build healthy routines and hobbies for yourself - this is good self-care.

   Take care.

SD

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks for your reply, SD! It`s certainly given me a lot to think about. I certainly don`t mean to be a wall, or get defensive. I think I am optimistic (naive?) in believing that I can balance all these elements as the person I am today. I think what is key for me is to continue to enjoy my life outside of talking to him. Keeping up with things that I like to do for myself, the life I build for myself, my routines and my hobbies.

"I think what is key for me is to continue to enjoy my life outside of talking to him. Keeping up with things that I like to do for myself, the life I build for myself, my routines and my hobbies. " - Atta girl. #bropound.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

A bit of an update, and a request for some advice!

Things have been chugging along. I`m following the plan of keeping busy, and letting things be when it comes to how he shows up in my life.

I guess I got excited, because I missed talking to him, and so I fell into messaging him as I would any other friend, meaning about things that happen throughout my day. He had been responsive to that at first, less so these past few days, but I didn`t think much of it. I thought I`d just be myself and let him express his feelings if he was uncomfortable. He has asked me not to send him any voice messages or pictures with me in them. Now that I know that this is where he draws the line I can respect this, but I can`t help but feel like I messed up. Old anxieties are churning.

I guess it`s part of being in this dynamic. I thought if I was myself, it would be easier, but it seems like I do feel that I`m pushing too hard.

[tina7868]

It was so liberating for me, to realize that I care for him unconditionally, and that I prefer having him in my life and letting him feel comfortable in showing up in a way that works for him. Meeting him where he`s at kind of thing. I guess I need to allow that to take shape, and not take it personally. If I was at work and someone told me not to do something a certain way, I would say `I didn`t realize, thanks for letting me know, I won`t do that next time, and move on real quick.

Now I`m thinking of all the repercussions, whether I messed things up, whether I have to watch what and how much I say. Whether I can suggest we talk on the phone (or is he the only person who can do that?).

I`m really glad I have this space to share these thoughts though!! Like I said, I recognize the anxious attachment component to my feelings right now. Especially since he is more on the avoidant side (at least I think so), I think I might have been overwhelming him...

[SaltyDawg]

A bit of an update, and a request for some advice!

Things have been chugging along. I`m following the plan of keeping busy, and letting things be when it comes to how he shows up in my life.

I guess I got excited, because I missed talking to him, and so I fell into messaging him as I would any other friend, meaning about things that happen throughout my day. He had been responsive to that at first, less so these past few days, but I didn`t think much of it. I thought I`d just be myself and let him express his feelings if he was uncomfortable. He has asked me not to send him any voice messages or pictures with me in them. Now that I know that this is where he draws the line I can respect this, but I can`t help but feel like I messed up. Old anxieties are churning.

I guess it`s part of being in this dynamic. I thought if I was myself, it would be easier, but it seems like I do feel that I`m pushing too hard.

Tina,

   Thanks for sharing an update.  I know you miss him terribly, as you miss the intimate conversation you have had with him, and I sense that this is one of your primary emotional needs, much like it is for my wife, and a more limited extent for myself.   

   Being mindful that he is a diagnosed borderline AND he currently has another girlfriend at the moment.  If you were in his girlfriend's shoes, would you want him to be receiving messages from his former girlfriend while you are involved with him?  He has set a boundary to keep you away from him at arms length by him going LC (limited contact); however, he has not blocked you.  I really don't know the motivation behind him keeping you at arms length; however, if one were to look at this through a borderline lens, perhaps he is keeping you close enough if the current girlfriend doesn't work out, he may come closer to you, again.

   To use an analogy, you are the pot, on low heat, on the back burner of a stove, keeping you just warm enough and he is turning down the temperature by asking you not to send voice texts or photos of yourself.  Right now he is focusing most of his attention on the front burner, on high heat, with his new girlfriend, and is interacting with her.  Now if something happens to the pot on the front burner, it boils over, or get's ruined or consumed, he will still have you on the back burner, a 2nd choice, and could or might bring you to the front burner, unless he finds something (someone) else to put on the front burner instead.

   I have a few questions for you to think about.  I do not want to trigger your anxieties which this may do, so I am a bit hesitant bringing these questions up; however, if you don't ponder them, you might remain stuck where you are at.  Are you okay with bread-crumbs of attention in the form of text messages only and other limiting interactions with him? 

It was so liberating for me, to realize that I care for him unconditionally, and that I prefer having him in my life and letting him feel comfortable in showing up in a way that works for him. Meeting him where he`s at kind of thing. I guess I need to allow that to take shape, and not take it personally. If I was at work and someone told me not to do something a certain way, I would say `I didn`t realize, thanks for letting me know, I won`t do that next time, and move on real quick.

Now I`m thinking of all the repercussions, whether I messed things up, whether I have to watch what and how much I say. Whether I can suggest we talk on the phone (or is he the only person who can do that?).

I`m really glad I have this space to share these thoughts though!! Like I said, I recognize the anxious attachment component to my feelings right now. Especially since he is more on the avoidant side (at least I think so), I think I might have been overwhelming him...

   Tina, I know he has played an important part of your life.  You know he has another girlfriend right now.  My T tells me I have some 'anxious attachment' as well, so I have an idea on how you might be feeling; however, I am an outside 3rd person, and can see your situation from a different perspective, just as you can see other persons that you help from a different perspective.

   I am glad you are thinking of the 'repercussions' of your interactions with him.  You cannot change the past.  However, you can change the present, for a different future.  In order to best help you, what do you want that future to look like for you?  Right now, all I can see is you are still pining for him; however, he is unavailable as he has a new partner.

   Tina, what do you want out of this relationship?  Since he indicated 'no voice texts' by extension, I am guessing no more phone calls either as that involves 'voice', you might want to clarify that with some text messages to see exactly where that boundary is too.  Are you okay, having limited interaction with restricted text messages only?  Perhaps get some clarification from him if his girlfriend is aware of you, and if it was his girlfriend that suggested restricting the messaging with you?

   What are your thoughts on reaching out to someone new, since you are in a new place, in a new city?  He has a new partner, why shouldn't you also find someone new?  Are you interested in finding a new partner for yourself?  I am curious as to what your therapist's take on all of this is?

   While waiting for him to show up in a way that works for him - be kind and do some self-care whatever that may look like for you.

   Take care.

SD

[once removed]

Meeting him where he`s at

it is not uncommon for exes to be on good terms. having a meaningful relationship with an ex gets increasingly less common.

i am pretty good, reasonably close friends with an ex from high school. it was a particularly bad breakup, mind you, and that friendship didnt form until some years after we graduated. i talk to her a few times a year by DM (at most), and went to her halloween party each year, until that stopped during covid. shes been married most of the time weve been in communication.

i would not say that either one of us put any particular effort into the relationship. we dont do anything to actively nurture it. i would say that the relationship enriches my life, but i wouldnt notice if it went by the wayside, either. but we both exist to the other if and when we want to speak.

he wasn`t interested in revisiting the past, but wished me well. I told him I wanted to leave the past behind, and hoped he could just think about us talking again. He asked me what was in it for me in all this, and again, I replied sincerely, telling him I still cared a lot and that for the past few months, I got to know myself, and it is part of who I am. He said I could share how I have been, and he would share if he felt comfortable.
...
Whether I can suggest we talk on the phone (or is he the only person who can do that?).
...
I think I might have been overwhelming him...

if you want a friendship with him, you may need to adjust your expectations as to what that can entail.

the signals he is sending are that this is not a relationship he is prepared to actively invest effort in. hes telling you in words and actions what you can expect. its a "good terms" relationship.

I recognize the anxious attachment component to my feelings right now. Especially since he is more on the avoidant side (at least I think so),

the two of you have had a years long friendship that included a romantic relationship, that you cherish. a lot has happened during it, and since; there were a lot of ups and downs, hurts, rejections real or perceived. a lot of growing in different directions. it has baggage. the reason that people dont usually invest in a post romantic relationship friendship is for that reason.

moreover, recall that the last time you had spoken to him, he severed ties, saying his girlfriend uncomfortable with the relationship. we dont know for sure whether or not that was true, or an excuse, but lets assume that its true (while considering how to proceed as if it were an excuse).

if it is true, he may be hiding the relationship/contact, in which case, expect even less, and/or expect it to end again suddenly at any time for any reason.

but regardless, if he is in a relationship, all of his eggs are in that basket. regardless of how much either of you cherish the relationship you have had, the fact is that that version of the relationship died, and youre in the position of an ex, with all the baggage that entails.

it meant a lot for you to reconnect with him. a connection is established. but i would look at it, at least for now and the foreseeable future, not as a door that is open, but a door that is barely cracked. its available for the knocking, but you will probably find that if you "come around knocking", it may close.

in other words, tina, if youre approaching this from an anxious place, if the relationship doesnt suit you as is, and that anxiety drives you to push for more, you are more likely to run quickly into the limits of what this can be likely be. this very likely is not going to be a relationship where he actively invests effort, or even reaches out, certainly not with any regularity (and if it is, a good rule of thumb for meeting him where hes at is to let him lead completely). thats not a reflection of you personally, just the hard reality of the situation. its a "youre okay, im okay, my door is cracked if you want to borrow a cup of sugar (no double entendre intended)" relationship.

can you live with that?

if so, decide what you want this to be. determine, against that, what it realistically can be. act accordingly.

[tina7868]

Thank you so much for your replies! It`s helping me navigate this situation.

it meant a lot for you to reconnect with him. a connection is established. but i would look at it, at least for now and the foreseeable future, not as a door that is open, but a door that is barely cracked. its available for the knocking, but you will probably find that if you "come around knocking", it may close.

I feel so silly for not realizing this sooner! I was trying to avoid specifically this (coming on too strong). Let me go through the timeline to better understand what happened.

- I messaged him a long message explaining how I felt
- He replied in a guarded way at first, then said it was okay for me to update him on my life, and he`d share when he felt comfortable
- I would give long detailed answers (my way of answering when I like someone!), and while he remained guarded, he was engaging and asking me questions
- I wasn`t paying as much attention, and we got into a long conversation while I was out late one night
- The next day, he asked if I wanted to call (on the phone) which turned into a long video call. His gf was working that night. He said he has just moved in with her (about an hour away from where he used to stay), and felt isolated, so it was nice to reconnect.
- After that, I really didn`t feel trepid, and thought we had re-established a friendship. I shared what was going on in my life, and he was reciprocating.
- When he pulled back, I was still sharing  , and if he didn`t reply to a message but I had something else to say, I`d text anyways. This is something I`d do in my secure friendships, so I was trying to be mindful here and telling myself, well, it`s the anxious part of me that is overanalyzing when or how much to say, so I`ll just be myself since he`s still replying
- He continued pulling back, then made the comment about the pictures. I said thanks for letting me know, sent a link to a video that reminded me of something he said, and left it at that

can you live with that?

if so, decide what you want this to be. determine, against that, what it realistically can be. act accordingly.

I guess I felt false hope? Or maybe I was again fooling myself as I had in the past, that I had my friend back, and so I didn`t pick up when his responses less frequent.

Like I said, I feel so silly. I hope I haven`t done too much damage with my oversharing?

I still think, when I compare 1) not talking to him at all, and having no door open 2) adjusting myself to make him comfortable, and not feeling a huge barrier between us, I choose option 2).

[once removed]

I hope I haven`t done too much damage with my oversharing?

nah. over pursue it though, and you likely will. if you are experiencing him pulling back, pull back.

ive been in similar situations. when you first reconnect, its often a lot like picking up where you left off, a lot of catching up. then, it usually teeters out. ive been on both sides of it, where i either over pursued, or it just dead ended, and ive had people pursue a reconnection to the extent i wasnt interested, or just couldnt see it happening. it cant be forced.

its a very natural thing. not necessarily anything unique to either of you. you have a history of course, but you have a different relationship now. its the kind of relationship that doesnt involve much maintenance or investment. if its going to, thats further down the road.

2) adjusting myself to make him comfortable, and not feeling a huge barrier between us, I choose option 2).

think of it less about how to make him comfortable, and more about adjusting to the reality of a new and different kind of relationship broadly speaking. try to see it from 35000 ft up. its just a different thing now.

if it were me, i would probably leave the ball in his court, no matter what that means. its like i tell myself sometimes in romantic situations: if she wants to take it further, she will let me know, directly or indirectly. if he wants to strengthen the connection, he will let you know.

[tina7868]

nah. over pursue it though, and you likely will. if you are experiencing him pulling back, pull back.

ive been in similar situations. when you first reconnect, its often a lot like picking up where you left off, a lot of catching up. then, it usually teeters out. ive been on both sides of it, where i either over pursued, or it just dead ended, and ive had people pursue a reconnection to the extent i wasnt interested, or just couldnt see it happening. it cant be forced.

its a very natural thing. not necessarily anything unique to either of you. you have a history of course, but you have a different relationship now. its the kind of relationship that doesnt involve much maintenance or investment. if its going to, thats further down the road.

This is the reality check I needed! Interestingly, I think I am more confident in myself than before! I was thinking that my conversation topics were so interesting that no teetering would happen on my watch  . So, part of it was surely my ego at play. In the past, that has been hard for me to admit. I know I`m attractive and funny, but not everyone`s cup of tea, and that`s okay, teas come in many flavours for a reason.

Okay I just want to mention, he had also said `when you don`t reply, it`s because you`re busy at work right??`. I reassured him that was the case, and took it as okay, he likes when I reply, and it`s okay for me to initiate the conversation  . I`m actually laughing out loud right now because no wonder I am so confused hahahaha. 

I`m all about that further down the road! With spring in the air, there is something so hopeful in me about seeing him again, older but wiser. I`m feeling like I have better tools to navigate this than before, but I still have a lot to learn.