A whole mess

[OrganizedChaos]

Hello Everyone,

My wife and I have been married for 12 years, we have 3 kids ranging from ages 4-9. I have long suspected my wife has some type of mental health condition. We have known each other since we were 12, however, dated briefly in our teen years, but become super serious in our early 20's after I returned from Afghanistan. I knew from the start something felt off, our relationship was hot and heavy and transgressed into serious commitments very quickly. It was like a story from a romance novel. That all changed quickly, and I went from feeling loved and respected to being told nothing I ever did was good enough for her. That she was always the bottom of my totem pole. I in time no longer could go out with friends, I was made to believe my family was bad, and treated her poorly. This persisted for years, despite my many attempts to address the control, neediness, and passive aggressive comments. I eventually had a mental health breakdown, due in part to my marriage and some PTSD from combat experiences. I did a lot of not great things, substance abuse, I emotionally cheated in a way, there were suspicions I cheated, but nothing ever occurred. However, the accusations were always being thrown at me well before any of that, even though she has put herself in positions of suspicion, i was never allowed to address it. After that happened, she never wanted to let me live it down, its like it gave her every right to completely control me, accuse me of anything. There is way more to the story but I think that will suffice.

I have begged for her to stop treating me in ways that I don't like, but never had the courage to leave. Over the past summer, she has been going through some challenging times, to which I tried to be there for, but the mood swings, and projecting was so out of control I had enough. I told her I needed some space, and that we needed to go to therapy to work on ourselves so we can be better. I borrowed an RV from family, and was spending a few nights there after the kids went to bed. In that time her treatment got worse, and an entire situation developed where I believe she cheated. After I called her on all the lies, she went into full meltdown. Even now, having a therapist guide us through some steps to make things better, she is refusing to acknowledge any of her double standards, she will literally berate me for something that she is also doing, and act like there not comparable. There is no logically thinking at all. Anything and everything to take any focus off of her and put me on the defensive. She has said to me several times that she is just going to leave, that we are better off without her, and somehow gets mad at me for not just bowing down.

She is in individual therapy, however, I believe she has her therapist fooled, because it all keeps coming back on me. My therapist, and two couples counselors we have seen have made mention that she might be borderline. The last couples therapist, got her to agree to a psych eval, but I had to agree as well.

I am completely broken over this cheating situation, and there is no way to prove any of it, and its tearing me up inside because I feel, even if it was true, and telling the truth meant saving my life, she would not. I really want to be able to fix this marriage, but more importantly I am worried what this has done and will continue to do to our kids. I have tried to approach her about how she treats the kids, and i always get lashed out on for calling her a "piece of s**t mom"

I have been in therapy for several years, but most of that was to focus on my military trauma, no other therapist wanted to see beyond that. However, the new one I am seeing called it out immediately and recommended the stop walking on eggshells book (which has been amazing). I am so confused by all of this, and am uncertain how to, or even if i should proceed.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[HurtAndTired]

Hello OrganizedChaos and welcome,

I am so sorry to hear about the situation that you find yourself in, but I am so glad that you found us. I found this site several months ago myself and it has been a lifesaver for me. Please know that you are not alone. We have all gone through, and are continuing to go, through similar experiences. We are here to help, or just to listen if you need to vent. For now, I will step away and let others who are more experienced step in to help and offer advice but know that I will be following your posts and will chime in at some point.

Things will be ok in the end, and if they're not ok it's not the end - John Lennon

HurtAndTired

[SaltyDawg]

You said,

I did a lot of not great things, substance abuse, I emotionally cheated in a way, there were suspicions I cheated, but nothing ever occurred. However, the accusations were always being thrown at me well before any of that, even though she has put herself in positions of suspicion, i was never allowed to address it. After that happened, she never wanted to let me live it down, its like it gave her every right to completely control me, accuse me of anything.

For a relationship to work, there needs to be trust, on both sides.  You did admit to having an emotional affair, even though it was not a physical one, in addition to substance (ab)use.  From her perspective you crossed the line of trust, and I can see her perspective on this.  Does this mean she should hold you accountable for everything?  That is for you to decide with your own therapist.

You go on to say,

I have begged for her to stop treating me in ways that I don't like, but never had the courage to leave. Over the past summer, she has been going through some challenging times, to which I tried to be there for, but the mood swings, and projecting was so out of control I had enough. I told her I needed some space, and that we needed to go to therapy to work on ourselves so we can be better. I borrowed an RV from family, and was spending a few nights there after the kids went to bed. In that time her treatment got worse, and an entire situation developed where I believe she cheated. After I called her on all the lies, she went into full meltdown.

Do you only believe she cheated on you; or, do you know she cheated by her own admission, or have concrete proof (texts, e-mails, photos, recordings, etc.) of her cheating?  These kinds of accusations, if false, can severely damage the trust in a relationship if they are not true.  In my exgf's case I had concrete proof, two sets of e-mails with two different guys, and she openly admitted to it after being asked, so I broke up with her as a result of her cheating on me not once, but twice.

If you have no 'facts' that support your 'feelings' of her cheating on you, I think you should focus on those feelings as to why there are no specific facts.  You do mention 'all of her lies', this should also be a focus in couple's therapy.  If you do have facts that support your feelings of her cheating on you, you should articulate this in a way to the couple's therapist so the therapist can mediate this.

Both sides must take ownership for their own sh!t, before any kind of progress can be made.


Even now, having a therapist guide us through some steps to make things better, she is refusing to acknowledge any of her double standards, she will literally berate me for something that she is also doing, and act like there not comparable. There is no logically thinking at all. Anything and everything to take any focus off of her and put me on the defensive. She has said to me several times that she is just going to leave, that we are better off without her, and somehow gets mad at me for not just bowing down.

Logical thinking usually requires facts to back up the logic.  Your wife thinks with her feelings and emotions, not facts.  So, if you want to reach your wife, speak to her feelings/emotions and not the facts that do not match her feelings.  You have to do this in order to start communicating with her.  There is also a lot of shame on her part, and she cannot admit to it, so she projects/transfers that to you - that is how 'crazy' works.  I sense that feeling on both sides are extremely elevated, and no progress can be made until things cool down.


She is in individual therapy, however, I believe she has her therapist fooled, because it all keeps coming back on me. My therapist, and two couples counselors we have seen have made mention that she might be borderline. The last couples therapist, got her to agree to a psych eval, but I had to agree as well.

It is one thing if your own therapist mentions this, it is another if your couple's therapists mention this, specifically two of them.  Was this something you mentioned, or the couple's therapist brought up?  Normally a couple's therapist would not bring this up, as they don't want to chase the client away as it is their goal is to get both of you to communicate effectively and unless the borderline behavior is extreme in nature and can include suicidal ideation/gestures/attempts and/or self-mutilation, it is generally not brought up.

I do like your most recent couple's therapist's position of requiring the same treatment for both you and your wife, both must do a psych eval.  You already know about your service PTSD, and having played in the 'sandbox' coming face to face with hostiles on more than one occasion, I can say the terror I got from my pwBPD far exceeded that of coming face to face with what our nation's leaders call terrorists (I was trained to deal with terrorists, not my wife). 

Once I get to know you better, I will give you some advice on how to deal with her individual therapist (or you dig into my history for the answer).

I am completely broken over this cheating situation, and there is no way to prove any of it, and its tearing me up inside because I feel, even if it was true, and telling the truth meant saving my life, she would not.

Circling back to the 'cheating' allegation, unless you have credible proof, you will have to accept your wife's version that it did not happen even though you feel devastated by the thought of that possibility based on feelings based on the circumstantial evidence you have seen and witnessed.  You have already admitted to emotional cheating in your post.  I  am going to hold up an emotional mirror, and ask "who has the emotional double standard"?  This is something that you need to work on with your individual therapist on why you feel this way.


I really want to be able to fix this marriage, but more importantly I am worried what this has done and will continue to do to our kids. I have tried to approach her about how she treats the kids, and i always get lashed out on for calling her a "piece of s**t mom"

Unless logic escapes me, calling your wife a 'piece of s**t' is not the way to 'fix this marriage' - what do you think?  Yes, the kids will be affected by all of this, some more negatively than others - dig in my history to see how it has affected mine, it is not good.  You cannot change your wife; however, you can change yourself.  What are you willing to change?


I have been in therapy for several years, but most of that was to focus on my military trauma, no other therapist wanted to see beyond that. However, the new one I am seeing called it out immediately and recommended the stop walking on eggshells book (which has been amazing). I am so confused by all of this, and am uncertain how to, or even if i should proceed.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.

Sounds like you have a much better therapist right now.  I have a lot of advice which I will withhold for now (dig into my history for clues).  If you have any hope at all reconnecting with your wife, you have to stop focusing on the facts that do not match your wife's feelings.  You must focus on your wife's feelings, and only validate the feelings.  Do not validate the invalid (false facts).  At least initially ignore the facts, until you can establish a reliable emotional feelings-based connection with your wife.

One more piece of advice, is to do self-care whatever that may be for you.

Take care.

[kells76]

Hi OrganizedChaos, really glad you found us 

There are a lot of moving parts in your situation for sure -- young kids, military background, therapists, counseling, fears about cheating, sleeping separately... It can sometimes feel overwhelming coping with all the chaos and all the pieces in play -- we definitely understand.

Being confused by if or how to move forward also makes sense. When there's a personality disorder in the mix, "standard" approaches often aren't very effective, and can sometimes make things worse. When we want to save a relationship, it can take learning some new and often unintuitive communication tools and skills.

Fortunately, we have a deep library of articles and threads about learning and practicing those skills. A good place to start is our section on Saving a relationship that is in or near breakup -- if you have time, read through some material there and let us know your thoughts.

One of the difficult aspects of working on a relationship with a pwBPD is that we have to take on the lion's share of growth and skills development. It isn't fair, necessarily, but what it boils down to is: we can't change anyone else, we can only change ourselves, and, fortunately, because we're one half of the dynamic, even if we're the only one to change, it can change the relational dynamic.

While there aren't any guarantees, and the tools and skills aren't "magic wands", learning new ways of communicating and relating can "stop the bleeding" enough that you can get space to think about what you want and make some decisions.

...

Would you say that the biggest relationship issue for you right now is fears about your W cheating? Or is it something else (yelling, raging, blaming, etc)?

Do you think she would say the same thing -- her biggest issue is her fears about you cheating? Or something else?

It's a high temperature issue that brings up a lot of raw emotions. I'm thinking that if you can find a way to turn down the temperature a bit in those interactions, that can be a start to improving the relationship.

...

How are your kids doing with what's going on?