Am I going insane?

[Chief Drizzt]

Somebody help me out here.  My daughter who is home from college asked if she could spend the night at her friend’s house (who btw happens to be her roommate in college).  I reluctantly agreed to it and my uPBD wife is mad at me for doing so.  She told me that she had told our daughter that she wanted to spend time with her tonight and that our daughter should never have asked to spend the night out particularly with someone she is with every day with at college.  I was unaware that this discussion was had.

So - our daughter seeing that Mom was upset did not go out (initially - she is aware of the uPBD).  I told my wife that our daughter was willing to stay and do something as a family with us or do something with her alone with her if she wanted.  My wife refused to do anything and has isolated herself in our bedroom watching TV.  Whenever I try to talk to her about it she starts complaining that we only think of ourselves and that we don’t care about her.  Then she says she is through with us and that she needs to start looking after herself above others from now on. Everything I say to her is met with bitterness and resistance.

What do you all think - are these the actions of a BPD person?  I honestly don’t know - but something about this situation seems off to me.  I am feeling really guilty about how this all went down and I’m not sure if my own reaction is right or not.  When it was apparent that nothing was going to happen I just told my daughter to go ahead and go to her friend’s house.  Was that the right thing to do?  I am questioning myself now and wondering if I should have just told our daughter to stay home regardless. She would have done so without question - I have no doubt. 

My wife really has a way of making me feel guilty when stuff like this happens.  I do feel guilty!  Should I though?  What do you all think?

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[SaltyDawg]

Chief Drizzt,

   Welcome back, marine.  I am sorry to hear that you are in crisis with your wife's behaviors concerning your adult daughter.  Being mindful that your daughter is in college, she is an adult, and should not be required stay at home if she doesn't want to.  However, being mindful, that your wife could have some financial manipulation power over your daughter (paying tuition, etc.) she still exudes coercive control over your daughter - and that can generate contempt.

   You did not know that your wife had told your daughter she wanted to spend time with her -- yet, as you were not aware of this conversation when you gave your daughter permission to do in an age appropriate manner.  My daughter has done the same, my D17, is also in early college, albeit still lives at home, and is not yet an adult - so when my daughter asks, I always respond with "what did your mother say?".  That said, I have given my daughter a lot more latitude of visiting friends and going out, as it exposes her to healthier relationship dynamics than what can be found inside the home.  This is one of my priorities in reversing/stopping the emotional damage to my dear daughter.

   Your daughter did stay for her mom; however, her mom has since become dysregulated (irrational) - which is a symptom of a BPD person, specifically the symptom of "Rapid changes in mood, lasting usually only a few hours and rarely more than a few days" and possibly "Inappropriately intense anger or problems controlling anger" as well.  You know your wife the best, do you think she will return to baseline and stabilize the next few hours to a couple days after this mood swing?

Do you think the 'off feeling' is because your daughter is normally at college and is only home for the holidays?  Or, is this some sort of new behavior that you have not seen in your wife yet, or recently?

With regards to letting your daughter going to her friend's house under the circumstances you mentioned, I feel you made the correct decision to not further subject your daughter to these kinds of behaviors as they are unhealthy for your daughter - the way you handled this situation is how I would have handled this situation if I were in your shoes - I am validating your decision.

F.O.G. is the tool that the pwBPD uses to exert their control over their loved ones.  Fear, Obligation, and Guilt.  They are master's at laying guilt trips, and pulling at your heart strings to coerce obligation, and and use fear (usually withholding, pouting or raging like a petulant child if they don't get their way).  Invariably you will feel guilt over this, as you have made your wife upset, and she has made you think you are going against her will, even though this involves your adult child who should be allowed a good deal of autonomy and freedom from being in an emotionally toxic environment.  Even though my D is 17, I do let her stay overnight at friend's homes - it would be different if there wasn't a toxic environment at home, so the way I look at for myself, I am choosing the healthier option for my DD of two scenarios - and I no longer feel guilt, as I know I am doing the best I can do for my dear daughter.  What do you think of this approach?

I know you have been through a lot.  Make sure you do some self-care, go out for a run, get some fresh air, clear your head, or do something that works for you whatever that may look like for you.

Take care.

SD

[Chief Drizzt]

SD - thanks for the nice reply!

I think the expectation has always been from my wife that our daughter should prioritize time with the family when she is home from college.  The problem is that my wife is often sick due to other health issues and so things often fall through.  We’ll make plans but then because my wife is nauseous or has a headache, etc. we don’t do them.  I think my wife feels guilty about this which is why she gets angry - which gets directed at us. 

I do appreciate the validation because although I agree - our daughter should prioritize her time with us - I don’t see why she can’t go do stuff with her friends if plans fall through.

With regards to college tuition - it was an issue but just recently changed due to my disability status with the VA being raised.  Long story short - she is covered for college now.  Where I see it being a problem is if my wife tries to manipulate me to not let her get the benefit.  Well - that’s not gonna happen - which could lead to issues between us.  In all honesty - as much as I don’t want it - I would separate or divorce before I withheld that benefit from my daughter.  I think she realizes that (subconsciously) because she has not yet made such a suggestion - but I could see that happening.

I like your approach with regards to your daughter.  I need to work on not feeling guilt and not allowing my wife’s behavior lead me to feel guilty over our adult kids.

Is this a trait with BPD parents - that they think their kids never actually grow up - or should always be treated as 12 year olds?  I find this perplexing.

[SaltyDawg]

Chief,

I will comment on a few things you replied to...

I think the expectation has always been from my wife that our daughter should prioritize time with the family when she is home from college.  The problem is that my wife is often sick due to other health issues and so things often fall through.  We’ll make plans but then because my wife is nauseous or has a headache, etc. we don’t do them.  I think my wife feels guilty about this which is why she gets angry - which gets directed at us. 

I do appreciate the validation because although I agree - our daughter should prioritize her time with us - I don’t see why she can’t go do stuff with her friends if plans fall through.

Any person with a mental disability will lash out at the ones they love most, in this case that is you and followed by your daughter. 

I did notice you mentioned that your daughter's priority should be with you and your wife, not once, but twice from each of your perspectives - this is really important to you and your wife.  Would you consider having this discussion with your daughter when she is available to gain her perspective on how she feels about this as you don't want to her to feel contempt or bitterness towards this? 

You have mentioned in several of your previous posts that you go to church and a group in church, so I will reference a couple related scriptures - Colossians 3:19-21, with particular attention to verse 21 and Ephesians 6:1-4 with particular attention to verse 4.  It is important for a child to honor both of their parent's; however, it is also the parent's responsibility not to embitter the child.

The reason why I am asking is that my own daughter indicated she would go NC with a similar type expectation once she turned 18 and this scared my wife to no end.  I do agree she should be able to spend time with her friends if your and/or your wife's plans do fall through.  However, she should also make time for family, and we have shifted this to the bare minimum of 'family' holidays and a few key birthdays, less than 10 days in a year so our daughter feels only a minimum amount of obligation and guilt around this.

With regards to college tuition - it was an issue but just recently changed due to my disability status with the VA being raised.  Long story short - she is covered for college now.  Where I see it being a problem is if my wife tries to manipulate me to not let her get the benefit.  Well - that’s not gonna happen - which could lead to issues between us.  In all honesty - as much as I don’t want it - I would separate or divorce before I withheld that benefit from my daughter.  I think she realizes that (subconsciously) because she has not yet made such a suggestion - but I could see that happening.

I don't see the college tuition being an issue - I know my daughter is concerned over this, that is why I mentioned it in case there were some parallels.

What I put in bold and underlined, is a boundary of yours.  This boundary is keeping your wife (subconsciously) from going into this area of financial manipulation with your daughter.  Keep this in mind if you want to put additional boundaries in place to reduce the level toxicity at your home.


Is this a trait with BPD parents - that they think their kids never actually grow up - or should always be treated as 12 year olds?  I find this perplexing.

For ~90% of women with BPD traits, this is the case (~10% for men with BPD) - it will never change, unless there is therapy as the 'maternal instinct' is also amplified like the other emotions she has - this is one the earlier things that I identified in couple's counseling which migrated to my wife's individual therapy was the parentification of our children which has helped my wife give  our daughter a lot more latitude and freedom than she would otherwise have.

Take care.

SD

[Chief Drizzt]

Thanks SD - as always your insight is much appreciated.  The comment on boundaries was most helpful.  I had not considered that as a boundary before - and will take your advice on setting future ones.

[SaltyDawg]

CD,

You're welcome.

Good luck & take care with self-care.

SD

[sarah98]

It's clear that you're in a challenging position, trying to balance the needs of both your wife and daughter. Your decision to allow your daughter to spend time with her friend seems reasonable, especially given the situation's evolving nature. It's important for young adults to maintain social connections.

Feeling guilty in such complex family dynamics is understandable, but remember, you're doing your best to navigate a difficult situation. Your actions show a willingness to consider everyone's feelings.

Regarding your wife's behavior, it's crucial to approach this with empathy. While it's not possible to diagnose BPD without professional assessment, her emotions and reactions indicate a need for support. Encouraging open communication and considering counseling or therapy could be beneficial for your family.

Remember, your role is to support your family, and it's okay to seek help when needed. You're showing great care and thoughtfulness in handling this delicate situation.

[Chief Drizzt]

Thanks for the insight Sarah!