one step at a time

[tina7868]

Hey fam  !

I want to post on this board since I feel a shift in my mindset lately, although I`ve gotten a lot of great advice on Detaching that I will continue to apply. In summary, after 7 months of no contact following several years of an on and off relationship, I reached out to my ex because I missed him, and felt I have grown enough to turn over a new leaf. In fact, I am trying not to see him entirely as an ex anymore, but more like a new (albeit complex!) friend. He was diagnosed with BPD years ago, was in therapy for a while, but isn`t currently. He is in a relationship, I respect that and am happy for him. My feelings for him currently are that I like him for him. Yes, I do put him on a pedestal. I think he is the best thing since sliced cheese. Accepting I feel that way has helped me on my journey. I myself see a counselor, and while I don`t have a diagnosis, I can certainly relate to anxiety and OCD symptoms.

I`d like help navigating this, as it does mean a lot to me. I can be very stubborn, so sometimes it`s hard to take my own advice. I know it means more to me than to him. As much as I`d like to understand his behaviour, this is just as much (if not more so!) about continuing to work on myself. Every time I am in a situation that is similar to one I`ve been in before, and I act differently, I gain confidence.

After a warm start, he seems to have pulled back (responding in a more dry tone, then not even for responding for a couple of days). I feel my old anxious overthinking trying to take over. What can I control here, to show up as the best version of me in this situation?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Pook075]

After a warm start, he seems to have pulled back (responding in a more dry tone, then not even for responding for a couple of days). I feel my old anxious overthinking trying to take over. What can I control here, to show up as the best version of me in this situation?

Hey Tina,

A few questions-

1) What are you hoping to achieve by reconnecting?

2) How is the "best version of you" different from the "typical you"?

3) What are you overthinking?  I think that goes back to the first question about your intentions here.

[tina7868]

Hey Pook, thanks for the prompts. I`ve taken some time to ponder my responses.

1) What are you hoping to achieve by reconnecting?

He means a lot to me, and I want him to be in my life. I am hoping to overcome my own anxious tendencies. During a session with my T, we discussed the anxious-avoidant dynamic so often at play in this relationship, and I am hoping that through self awareness and growth (on my end at least, which is what I can control), it can be overcome and we can establish a more stable relationship. What I really want, deep down, is to get back together some day,  but I am hoping to value the relationship as it is right now, and appreciate the progress that has been made.

2) How is the "best version of you" different from the "typical you"?

I think I would be available and responsive, but not let all my thoughts revolve around this dynamic. I also want to be more mindful of what I am experiencing when my anxiety peaks, and find ways to soothe myself, and get back to baseline, regardless of whether I hear from him or not. The best version of me would keep doing things she enjoys in her life, allowing things to develop (if they do). In a sense putting my best foot forward to have the odds in my favour, but still working on things that will benefit me in different areas of my life regardless of the outcome.

3) What are you overthinking?  I think that goes back to the first question about your intentions here.

I am mainly overthinking my responses. I think I am focusing too much on his responses, which are inconsistent to say the least, and trying to `mold` my approach. However, then I set myself up for a lot of overanalyzing. He`s allowed to have his boundaries, I will respect them, just as I want to respect his need for space. His boundaries are, at times, inconsistent enough that they make me think a lot (why tell me he`s still attracted to me, why no pictures, why say he feels invalidated at times in his relationship?).

[Pook075]

He means a lot to me, and I want him to be in my life. I am hoping to overcome my own anxious tendencies. During a session with my T, we discussed the anxious-avoidant dynamic so often at play in this relationship, and I am hoping that through self awareness and growth (on my end at least, which is what I can control), it can be overcome and we can establish a more stable relationship. What I really want, deep down, is to get back together some day,  but I am hoping to value the relationship as it is right now, and appreciate the progress that has been made.

Fair enough and I do hope that it works out long-term.  But like you mentioned, there's only so much you can control and that's the biggest part of this stage of acceptance.  Your pace and his pace may be very different because of his current relationship.  Are you sure you're ready for the inevitable bumps in the road? 

I'm not passing judgement here...it's not a loaded question or anything since I don't know you.  But we all know there's going to be some bumps and backsliding along the way.

I think I would be available and responsive, but not let all my thoughts revolve around this dynamic. I also want to be more mindful of what I am experiencing when my anxiety peaks, and find ways to soothe myself, and get back to baseline, regardless of whether I hear from him or not. The best version of me would keep doing things she enjoys in her life, allowing things to develop (if they do). In a sense putting my best foot forward to have the odds in my favour, but still working on things that will benefit me in different areas of my life regardless of the outcome.

The biggest growth from my journey came when I reached the point where I realized, "Huh, I'm okay just being me."  For the best version of any of us, it's realizing we can stand on our own two feet and feel comfortable in our own skin, no matter how things play out.

I definitely had my fair share of anxiety through this process, and I loved to play out every possible scenario in my mind so I was "prepared" for when I talked to my wife.  Then we talked in person and it went nothing like I expected (for better or worse), so I'd have to analyze that and figure out what I could have done better.  To be honest, it was exhausting and it got me absolutely nowhere in the relationship or in life- it just kept me stressed out for absolutely no reason at all.

Once I let all that stuff go, I would enter conversations without anxiety...and they'd be better conversations where progress would be made. 

I am mainly overthinking my responses. I think I am focusing too much on his responses, which are inconsistent to say the least, and trying to `mold` my approach. However, then I set myself up for a lot of overanalyzing. He`s allowed to have his boundaries, I will respect them, just as I want to respect his need for space. His boundaries are, at times, inconsistent enough that they make me think a lot (why tell me he`s still attracted to me, why no pictures, why say he feels invalidated at times in his relationship?).

I just went through that in the last section, but I wanted to touch on one other point here.  His boundaries matter but so do yours.  In fact, yours are a lot more important (for you) and you can't be afraid to ask the tougher questions.  I'm still attractive?  Okay, what do you mean by that?  You're invalidated in your current relationship?  That stinks...tell me about it.

The key to overcoming these types of relationships is communication, and we both know the relationship won't work long-term without it.  My advice would be to stop second-guessing and over-preparing because the goal is not to give the perfect answers...it's to rekindle love naturally.  You could be perfect tomorrow but you won't always be perfect (none of us will), so stop holding yourself to that standard if that's the only way to make progress.  Make sense?

[tina7868]

 

Are you sure you're ready for the inevitable bumps in the road?

I am, and I’m glad you asked.

Once I let all that stuff go, I would enter conversations without anxiety...and they'd be better conversations where progress would be made

I have found that just being me, and not trying to control the outcome, has served me well, not just with him, but in all relationships in my life. I certainly have good days and bad days when it comes to this, but it’s getting better. I think I would like to work on “just being me”…with myself. Letting the anxiety sit, feeling okay with my desires, not looking for validation, recognizing that I want to hear from him and it sucks when I don’t (instead of distracting or convincing myself that I feel a way I don’t) but I’ll live.

The key to overcoming these types of relationships is communication, and we both know the relationship won't work long-term without it.  My advice would be to stop second-guessing and over-preparing because the goal is not to give the perfect answers...it's to rekindle love naturally.  You could be perfect tomorrow but you won't always be perfect (none of us will), so stop holding yourself to that standard if that's the only way to make progress.  Make sense?

I think asking the tough questions will be something else for me to work on. I feel like, in the right moment, he’s very open to answering these questions, but then it is followed by longer periods of him pulling back. I think a big challenge for me will be not to chase these moments, but to let them happen when they happen.

[once removed]

What can I control here

expectations.

have the two of you spoken again?

[tina7868]

expectations.

have the two of you spoken again?

Not since the last time where he set a clear boundary. I have since sent a message about a video I thought he`d like and another one about an activity that I tried (a hobby we have in common!), and didn`t get a response.

He could be busy with work, intentionally pulling away, or both. If it was anyone else, I wouldn`t be thinking twice and I would just assume they`d reach out eventually or I would feel comfortable trying again. I guess I should expect his interest to wane and his boundaries to go up after times where he possibly felt overwhelmed.

[SinisterComplex]

Not since the last time where he set a clear boundary. I have since sent a message about a video I thought he`d like and another one about an activity that I tried (a hobby we have in common!), and didn`t get a response.

He could be busy with work, intentionally pulling away, or both. If it was anyone else, I wouldn`t be thinking twice and I would just assume they`d reach out eventually or I would feel comfortable trying again. I guess I should expect his interest to wane and his boundaries to go up after times where he possibly felt overwhelmed.

Approach with zero expectations in general. Don't think twice just go about doing what you do and let things go where they may and fall where they may.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Approach with zero expectations in general. Don't think twice just go about doing what you do and let things go where they may and fall where they may.

This helped me a lot. I wrote it out in my journal, and go back to it.

We have been messaging back and forth. I am so grateful, as this relationship means a lot to me. I value it so much, that I am happy to just sit back and appreciate it for what it is, without needing it to go anywhere.

I have my struggles! Namely, it is hard for me to `sit back` when I want to help.

For example, his grandmother passed away. We spoke about it, I offered my support if he wants someone to talk to. It is then hard for me to back away. My instinct is to check up on him, make sure he`s okay. While I am trying not to overthink my overtures, I am also trying to recognize that he has his own process to go through. I don`t like that I am making this `about me`, wondering how I can best be there for him, when he is the one going through a difficult situation.

I just think I need to take a step back, and let him share with me if he feels comfortable. The more I sit back with these feelings of discomfort within me (and notice them coming up in different contexts in my life), the more I realize how much of a `classic` case I am of the anxious co-dependent rescuer mix  .

[Pook075]

I just think I need to take a step back, and let him share with me if he feels comfortable. The more I sit back with these feelings of discomfort within me (and notice them coming up in different contexts in my life), the more I realize how much of a `classic` case I am of the anxious co-dependent rescuer mix  .

For what it's worth, with my BPD ex and my BPD kid, I've found that once I truly let go of their drama and the impacts it had on my life, the entire dynamic unexpectedly changed.  Part of that was me not dropping everything and rushing in to say, "Oh my gosh, what can I do to help..." 

But another part was that once I eliminated the conflict part of those relationships by staying out of it, those voids were filled with other relationships in each of my BPD's lives.  Now my non-daughter calls me about the same drama I used to have with my ex, and my ex will call about the drama from her perspective.  But because I'm now an outsider to that drama, the minimal advice I give is actually heard and appreciated.

Another instance is back in December when my BPD kid flipped on me, painted me black, and painted her mom white all within one weekend.  It was the first time in my life where I stood my ground and just shrugged my shoulders...and before long I realized that I appreciated not having the daily panic calls because one thing or another was blowing up.  Instead, my ex was dealing with it and would occasionally try to tag me in, which I happily did from the outside looking in.

As crazy as this sounds, letting go is sometimes the best way to repair old scars in BPD relationships.  I'm on very good terms with my ex and my kid simply because I let them do their thing and stay distant.  Yet that very thing drew them closer and fixed a lot of the problems we couldn't get past before.

[tina7868]

As crazy as this sounds, letting go is sometimes the best way to repair old scars in BPD relationships.  I'm on very good terms with my ex and my kid simply because I let them do their thing and stay distant.  Yet that very thing drew them closer and fixed a lot of the problems we couldn't get past before.

Thanks for this insight! I will inspire myself from this approach.

So, to pick up from earlier, I just continued messaging him as I normally would. He answered saying he’s been overwhelmed with everything going on and hadn’t been in the mood to chat. What felt right (in the moment) and what calms my own anxiety is to be honest. I said that I worry about him, I am here if he wants to talk, and I respect his space. Everything in me wants to jump in and help  .

[Kashi]

Woman to woman

I wouldn't have my ex-partners being friends with me while I have a partner.   I think it is disrespectful.

Personally, I don't do it. 

I think you are stepping into someone else territory when you have been close to a person.

That can cause people to be uncomfortable. 

Also no matter how much we say we are over our ex.   Something lingers. 

If you are really honest.

Can get emotionally messy

Do you want to add to the way you feel?  Is he worth keeping contact with as a friend?

Only questions.   No judgment.   What I do doesnt mean it's the same for you.

I am asking you be honest about how you feel.

[Pook075]

I wouldn't have my ex-partners being friends with me while I have a partner.   I think it is disrespectful.

Personally, I don't do it. 

When kids are involved, you have to have that relationship because the kids always come first.  I'm not looking to be "besties" with my ex or anything, but I've pushed hard to get it to where we can pick up the phone and talk to each other naturally when it concerns the kids.  I wouldn't have it any other way because my daughters will always be more important than I am.

[Pook075]

Thanks for this insight! I will inspire myself from this approach.

So, to pick up from earlier, I just continued messaging him as I normally would. He answered saying he’s been overwhelmed with everything going on and hadn’t been in the mood to chat. What felt right (in the moment) and what calms my own anxiety is to be honest. I said that I worry about him, I am here if he wants to talk, and I respect his space. Everything in me wants to jump in and help  .

I get that, I really do.  Just remember that the way to heal these relationships is to rebuild trust.  Trust comes before friendship, before dating, etc.  I can see his viewpoint; he's moved on and while things aren't great, he probably has memories of problems between you guys.  So he's on edge, afraid of what to say (or not say).

Just focus on the trust angle to start.

[tina7868]

Thanks Kashi and Pook for your input! It’s helpful to hear perspectives that are different than mine, and gives me a lot to think about.

I was talking to a good friend about the hot and cold behaviour, and how it made me feel confused. I want to respect and meet him where he is at, but that feels like a moving target, and I end up overanalyzing what caused the change. My friend said “But Tina, that’s how he is, and he’s never been otherwise!”. For some reason, these words helped calm me! It’s true, this has been a pattern that I forget about.

I have to accept that this is who he is. I can choose not to take it personally, and not to be reactive, and to nurture my other friendships.I feel a lot of my own growth reflected in how I view a friendship with him. I’ve known him for so long, it makes me happy to stay in touch with him. I accept that he has chosen to be with someone else, and it makes me happy that I have the freedom to find a relationship that suits me better.

[once removed]

I have the freedom to find a relationship that suits me better.

how is this going? are you dating? playing the field? looking around? not sure?

[tina7868]

I’m definitely open to meeting someone.

I’ve met a couple of potential interests through outdoor sports. The thing is, to my own hinderance, I get very very shy when I like someone. I don’t see these people often enough to warm up to them either. I also assume that if they are interested they will let it be known, but I know that I am setting myself up for failure by not engaging as much because I’m shy and then not doing anything to show my interest!

[tina7868]

Here is the chronology of the situation, that I am trying to wrap my head around.

- he shares about how he is feeling about his family member passing away. i offer my support, as i mentioned
- i check back up on him, and his replies about how he`s doing are the like of `depressed`, `overwhelmed`, `unhappy`. my heart goes out to him, so i validate his feelings and reitirate my support. he thanks me for checking up on him. he says he`s going home for a few days to be with family.
- meanwhile, he picks up conversation about every day life. i take the fact that he is replying relatively quickly (within a few minutes) as an indication that well...he wants to message me
- he gets home. i ask him how he`s doing and he says `well one of my family members is dead`. he says i should stop texting him all the time because it`s exhausting

I don`t think any of us didn`t see this coming  . I think I was projecting the type of relationship i wanted with him, and overstepped by asking so often how he was doing. So, there were probably more indicators that he needed space, but i was too focused on my own desire to `help` to notice. I think I wanted to show him that I could be supportive, but as a result I wasn`t meeting him where he was at. I`ve been trying not to overthink how much and how often I was messaging him, assuming that if he wanted space he would stop replying altogether. He had also asked, when I didn`t reply for a week, if the reason that I wasn`t replying was that I was busy with work, which I also took as an indication that he welcomed more regular communication.

I responsed that it was my bad, I thought that since he was replying that my messages were welcome, but that now I know I`ll take a cue. I`ll step back for a few weeks.

This did trigger some old emotions in myself of being mad that I didn`t do the right thing, but it`s been easier to center myself because, well, we aren`t in a relationship. My goal isn`t to be perfect. I think, in general, I could be more patient with the relationship`s development (or non-development) into something healthy, and be mindful of these dynamics surfacing.

[Pook075]

I responsed that it was my bad, I thought that since he was replying that my messages were welcome, but that now I know I`ll take a cue. I`ll step back for a few weeks.

When I first split with my wife, she'd say I was smothering her by reaching out.  But whenever we got on the phone, she would never want to hang up and she'd keep the conversation going.  Then she'd say she had to go....only to ask if I'm watching one of our old shows.  So we'd talk about that...and then she'd say she had to go...only to ask if I had heard about an old friend of ours.

You're looking at this like he has one definite opinion and there's one perfect timing for communication.  That probably changes by the hour though and you're never going to get it right since he has no idea what he wants.

The same goes for flirting or any of the other stuff he says.  It may be true when he says it, but it may no longer be true 15 minutes later.  Who knows.  But you can't second-guess a BPD mind since it's always changing stances depending on which way the wind is blowing or the temperature on Saturn.

[tina7868]

Thanks for your reply, Pook! What you are saying resonates with me.

The ideal version of myself, I imagine, would think `oh well, he is in a mood again`. I think responding with outward respect, while having inward confidence in my sense of self and levity (because it really isn`t that serious, I know that logically!) would be different than before and the way to go.

Of course, I care about this person, so there is that element at play, but if he is going to keep going back and forward I`d rather be in a more centered place myself. And I believe I can make it there.

[tina7868]

I was looking into emotional regulation, and came accross this sequence where you 1) identify the emotion, 2) identify the cause of the emotion, 3) identify what needs you want to satisfy and 4) come up with solutions, or compromise in order to balance 2) and 3).

I think it`s refreshing, because it looks at emotions as sources of information in a neutral way (although emotions can cause sensations within the body that are pleasant or unpleasant). 

I thought now is the perfect time to give this a try! It makes me feel better to have a logical thinking cap on. I was getting tripped up and ruminating on my own, so I thought I`d share here.

1) Sadness! I think it`s sadness that comes from thinking of things I want to share with him, and not `being able` to.
2) Being told that answering me is exhausting. That in and of itself doesn`t really bother me. It`s the thinking that comes after - why were you texting me so often before? does this mean I have to rethink the whole dynamic? how long do I have to wait before reaching out again? am I being anxious?
3) I think the sadness comes from, well, grief. A sense of loss of temporary closeness with someone I care about (you`d think I`d be used to this). How can I fill this need within myself?
4) This is where I`m getting really tripped up - coming up with a solution! Right now, I seem to be saying `wait it out for x amount of time and then reach out again`. What is x? I don`t think this is addressing the feelings within me.

[tina7868]

I wanted to write an update before logging off. We have been messaging each other even more lately. The conversation was flowing, and he was reciprocating in asking me about myself anf my life. I didn`t respond unless he did, and he would ask me questions, even tease me at times. It felt like I had my friend back.

Then, I guess I overstepped. You could argue that I should have seen this coming, but again my approach was to not think too much about how I worded things, and to let things be. We were texting back and forth a couple of days ago, and I asked him wouldn`t it be easier if we just spoke on the phone. He replied no, he prefers not to. I asked what made him feel that way (since when we actually talk on the phone he presents very differently, if you recall last time he was even more open). He evaded the question. I should have left it at that, but I joked that I guess it`s too much for him to see my face. This really triggered him, he called me shameful, said that I lacked respect, and then blocked me shortly after.

Sigh. I realize I put myself in this predicament. I am trying not to be too hard on myself, because expecting myself to be `perfect` all the time is unrealistic, but it makes me sad because I feel like we were doing well. A lot of old feelings came up, I felt (and still feel) anxious. What I`m doing differently is sharing what happened with trusted friends (and you guys!). I know it`s not the end of the world, but I was happy with him in my life.

I don`t know when I`ll hear from him again, it seems like what I said really bothered him.

[once removed]

i think this shows the limitations of what a friendship with him could/can look like.

thats not to slag him, and its not to say we can always say whatever to anyone; its also not to say it doesnt suck 

it is to put it into perspective: this is a relationship transpiring by text message, in which youre walking on eggshells, and, for whatever reason, this has happened what, at least three times in a pretty short period? its a pretty difficult relationship, hes a pretty difficult guy, and it seems pretty difficult to avoid.

thats not to say "dont have a relationship with him". it is to say that it seems like youre chasing an emotionally unavailable person to diminishing returns and a diminishing ends.

theres certainly a chance that he will unblock you. but what then?

[thankful person]

Hi Tina,

I don’t think I’ve met you on here before and I don’t ever go on the detaching board.

I am not intending any offence here… but I wanted to let you know the impression I’m getting from your posts… is that you want to get back together with your ex.

I know that some people have to remain in touch with exes because they share children. But those who don’t, I would have thought it’s a bit like smoking… you can’t do it part time.

Just something to think about. You don’t sound very detached. What would you say if he wanted to be with you again? Would you really mean what you were saying?

[tina7868]

Indeed, I don`t think I`m detached at all  . I think what I`ve been beating around the bush about is :
- I still have feelings for him. He is difficult and I still love him to bits, I`ve cared about him since I met him 9 years ago.
- I didn`t fully let go for a myriad of reasons, such as the way things ended, and my own upbringing.
- Yes, he can still be responsive. He still feels comfortable sharing things with me, but on his terms. He still likes me, and is at least somewhat attracted to me, but he`s in a relationship and that`s his decision. He will put that relationship first. He tells me he feels unhappy, unfulfilled, unsupported. But it isn`t for me to read into, it never is for me to make a decision for anyone else.
- Me being around, being so focused on being in `good standing`, for what? An idealistic version of me would say for a meaningful friendship to bloom. But so easily it goes back to him being somewhat open and engaged to shutting me down completely. Then I make myself feel anxious!

[thankful person]

He tells me he feels unhappy, unfulfilled, unsupported.

Of course he feels unhappy, unfulfilled, unsupported if he has bpd. That’s how my wife feels despite everything. There is a chance he will feel like this every day of his life and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.  You can’t judge their situation if you weren’t a fly on the wall through every occasion. You know he has a warped perception and memory of whatever he’s telling you and also wants your sympathy so will play the victim for this reason. There are those of us here who are choosing to stay in a bpd relationship and in my case it’s because I want things to work out so we can raise our family together. I don’t know what could have happened if I found bpd family before we had kids. But I like to think I may have had another chance, to not be trapped in such a controlling and unhealthy relationship and to be in a loving reciprocal relationship, safe to share feelings and affection and love, safe to be myself, to do the things I want to do and see the people I want to see. To feel loved and not have to struggle with the most simple things.. we have been having some good times recently and it’s just tedious waiting for the next split which always comes eventually. I know I would have to go through therapy to deal with my demons.  Honestly I feel like now if we split up I’d rather be alone forever than ever be in a relationship with anyone. I wish you all the best.

[tina7868]

Hey thankful person,

Your words really touched me. I admire your strength and openness. It hurts to wait for him. It hurts to let go. It hurts to be his friend. It hurts to not be his friend. I guess I’m feeling lost.

[SinisterComplex]

Hey thankful person,

Your words really touched me. I admire your strength and openness. It hurts to wait for him. It hurts to let go. It hurts to be his friend. It hurts to not be his friend. I guess I’m feeling lost.

Why feeling lost? Explain that a bit further if you could?

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-Sc

[thankful person]

Hey thankful person,

Your words really touched me. I admire your strength and openness. It hurts to wait for him. It hurts to let go. It hurts to be his friend. It hurts to not be his friend. I guess I’m feeling lost.

Tina, thank you for your kind words. I often feel like I just go on about my disordered thoughts and experiences and I’m not sure I can help anyone or make much sense though I try. I have had those feelings about ex partners before and I have only been able to move on when I met someone new because it was like I needed to be codependent and obsessed with someone at all times. Seriously I don’t feel that way anymore. This is my theory, I just thought of it.. For those who don’t run a mile at the realisation they are romantically involved with a mentally ill person… It is a fine line between, “I can’t get enough of my pwbpd” and “I’ve had enough of my pwbpd”. I felt both simultaneously in the very early stages of knowing my wife, in fact even before I left my ex. He likened it to the “dark side” in Star Wars. He was not wrong. Who knows why some pwbpd’s choose to end some relationships and yet others they don’t end but just like to tell their partner they are useless and they want the relationship over every day for many years… Anyway, so those of us posting on the bettering board are either in the “can’t get enough” stage (problematic if their pwbpd has ended the relationship) or “had enough” stage (or both). What I’m trying to say is, if your ex decided he wanted to be with you and did not make steps to end the relationship… in my mind there’s only one way that’s going to go which is you getting to the “had enough” stage. Look at all the posts on here and they are either, “my pwbpd has left me, how do I get them back?” Or, “my pwbpd treats me badly, how can I improve things/find the strength to leave/detach?” I really do think it’s like addiction, where you're putting a drug into your body which is satiating a craving, and you’re simultaneously putting more need into your body, so you can never be truly satisfied. I read a book about this which enabled me to stop smoking after trying and falling for 10 years. If I didn’t have kids with my wife then if I decided to leave I would have to move away and cut all contact with her to end the addiction, just like I did with nicotine.

“We’re all a little lost and it’s ok” Nightbirde

Please check out this song because I find it very comforting.

https://youtu.be/CZJvBfoHDk0?feature=shared

This young lady was very sick and she said, “You can't wait until life isn't hard anymore before you decide to be happy.” That thought has helped me through caretaker recovery. Rest in Peace.

[tina7868]

Thanks thankful person, your reply is really insightful. I think sharing your experiences does help a lot of us.

Why feeling lost? Explain that a bit further if you could?

I try to look at my feelings honestly, but I wonder if I know anything. I think I have a good handle on my story, on the reasons I am the way I am, and how I ended up here. I think what I feel is love. When some people hear about it, it may be seen as addiction, codependency, obsessiveness, anxious attachment, the lack of a consistent father figure, trauma bonding, the inability to `get it` and let go.

In all honesty, I probably don`t know anything, because I only have this one serious relationship to base myself off. So then I try to give other people a chance. But then I feel nauseated, incapable of putting in the effort with anyone else. And I don`t want to be with someone who I feel meh about. Alright then, not the end of the world, there is more to life, I can focus on myself and lead a fulfilling life with no partner. But then, I am realizing that I crave a relationship too; I want to share my life with someone, I want to cook and care for and be someone`s cheerleader. I want them to come home to me and tell me about their day. I think I`m ready for that. Maybe I wasn`t before, but now I feel like I am.

So I have these conflicting feelings. And then I have grown, and worked on myself. I am less reactive, better at communicating. Which is all nice and good, for me. But I miss the person who I did find that happiness with. The only person who I wanted to share my life with. So, I just want to be in good standing with my ex, just in case. But then I say something wrong and get blocked, by someone who didn`t choose me, who clearly doesn`t have feelings for me, who can live without me. But he said he didn`t feel the same attraction to his current partner. But he kept the back and forward going and shared his feelings with me.

Could it be that simple? The person I love, is in love with someone else?

So why do I feel lost?

I feel anxious when I am blocked. I feel happy briefly when we were talking. I feel sad again when I realize he doesn`t want to be with me. I feel hopeful when he seems to be warming up to me. I let go and then I miss him. He`s receptive and then he doesn`t speak to me.

[thankful person]

Tina,

You may have people saying you should get out there and meet someone else. I’m not saying that at all. I’m not saying you should force yourself to be interested in or care about or be attracted to someone else. I’m saying, I personally think you will be. After all that has come to pass, I am convinced that everything works out as it is supposed to. And that one day you will look back and realise why it all had to be this way. I don’t think a person like yourself would end up alone forever. My concern is that, if and when you do meet someone you are attracted to and interested in and care for and maybe even fall deeply in love… I want you to learn to love and respect yourself enough first to make sure they treat you right, and if they don’t, to walk away knowing they’re not good enough for you. I’m sorry, I know it’s none of my business. What can I say, I’m codependent, I care far too much about other people’s lives.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Pook075]

1) I feel anxious when I am blocked.

2) I feel happy briefly when we were talking.

3) I feel sad again when I realize he doesn`t want to be with me.

4) I feel hopeful when he seems to be warming up to me.

5) I let go and then I miss him.

6) He`s receptive and then he doesn`t speak to me.

Hey Tina,

If you look at your six statements above, each of them are how you feel when he does something.  That's giving him way too much power over your mental health and wellbeing.  You must be happy as Tina while being Tina...with no strings attached.

I know this is the bettering board and you said earlier that you haven't detached.  Nobody here has a right to tell you to move on, and I don't think you should if you're not ready for that.  But at the same time, you have to break that codependency because he does not have your best interests at heart today.

Detaching doesn't mean giving up.  Detaching means finding yourself without him in the immediate picture.  I hope that makes sense.

[tina7868]

Thank you for your replies! I still have a lot of learning to do.

Both of your messages are giving me elements to ponder, and direction for how I want to move forward.

I think a renewal of intent is in order. I haven’t defined what that intention is exactly yet. I think it’s somewhere between finding myself, being happy and grateful with my life, and not giving up because I don’t want to (and being okay with that).

My answer is short today because I am on a trip with friends. I feel happy and nostalgic right now. Somehow okay with everything. I think the unknown is what scares me the most. I also find that with friends I find humour in the situation. I’ve learned from this community how to be more vulnerable and accepting of myself, and I feel like that allows for better connections even with people who I have known for years. My ex being how he is. Like I said, it’s the unknown of whether or not I’ll hear from him again that scares me the most.

[once removed]

I think what I feel is love. When some people hear about it, it may be seen as...

the key to breaking anxious attachment wont come through mastering someone elses moods or whims. its finding security.

i know; that sounds a little bit like "want to lose weight? stop eating". but its chicken or egg. he does things that trigger your anxiety, but that anxiety, and intermittent reinforcement is likely part of the draw. if you were coming at it from a place of security, the draw, and the hurt reactions behind it, would likely not be present, or would be significantly reduced.

sure what you feel is love. but love can be complicated, and the dynamic in this particular case, is.

I only have this one serious relationship to base myself off.
...
And I don`t want to be with someone who I feel meh about.

the reason i asked about dating was not to suggest using it as a means to detach yourself from him (although it may help put the relationship less at the forefront), nor as a quest for finding mr right, necessarily.  

relationships teach us about ourselves, about others, about who we are in relation to others. they also teach us to expand our ideas of love, and our ability to do it.

if you lack experience at dating, experience is the way to master it.

if you want to break anxious attachment, gaining perspective on those things is a significant part of it. youre forced to endure rejection, and self soothe. you learn to put that rejection in perspective. youre forced to reject others, and self soothe the anxiety that can come from that. you get to know people, all kinds of people. you get to experiment, with yourself, and with others. it is really the ultimate way to learn to deal with people, and with yourself.

dating really is a numbers game. the best shot at it comes from meeting as many people as you can, getting as much experience and growth as you can get out of it, a whoooole lot of bad experiences, and a combination of timing and luck.

I can focus on myself and lead a fulfilling life with no partner. But then, I am realizing that I crave a relationship too

an anxious attachment can make for a powerful attraction to someone with an avoidant attachment. it has a way of seeking out emotional unavailability, and precluding secure attachment. repeated experiences with that tend to teach the wrong lessons. in my own case, it led (subconsciously) to picking "safer" partners. i found someone seemingly incapable of leaving me, who was possessive, and smothering to the point that my own attachment looked largely avoidant, until she too, left, and i was shattered. the facade of security i was searching for, was shattered.

this is all stuff that you can master, and thrive. but it takes practice, and it requires some discomfort.

[tina7868]

the key to breaking anxious attachment wont come through mastering someone elses moods or whims. its finding security

I am ready to put intentional effort towards finding security. I feel so tired of being in this situation.

sure what you feel is love. but love can be complicated, and the dynamic in this particular case, is.

What is the dynamic? This might sound like a simple question. What is going on?

an anxious attachment can make for a powerful attraction to someone with an avoidant attachment. it has a way of seeking out emotional unavailability, and precluding secure attachment. repeated experiences with that tend to teach the wrong lessons. in my own case, it led (subconsciously) to picking "safer" partners. i found someone seemingly incapable of leaving me, who was possessive, and smothering to the point that my own attachment looked largely avoidant, until she too, left, and i was shattered. the facade of security i was searching for, was shattered.

this is all stuff that you can master, and thrive. but it takes practice, and it requires some discomfort.

My therapist spoke to me about the anxious/avoidant dynamic. Man, it’s rough.

The intermittent reinforcement feels like a genuine connection. I was telling my friends about other things my ex had told me, that probably unconsciously, felt like intermittent reinforcement. 1) He had told me that his girlfriend has the same laugh as me, and that 2) he showed me a piece of art he had chosen for their place, depicting a woman who looked exactly like me  . He said look, she has the same hair/skin color/ clothing style as you. Only when I said this out loud did I realize how weird it was  .I think it leaves me feeling like, well, there is clearly something there on his end, surely it can’t be over?

I am ready to try. I miss him a lot, but I want to try.

[once removed]

What is the dynamic? This might sound like a simple question. What is going on?

romantic partners. two people that have desired each other at different/opposing times. friends with a long history. friends with mixed/blurry intentions.

the two of you have been a number of "things", all of them complicated.

from 30000 ft up, it looks something like this:

When couples disagree about the degree of closeness and intimacy desired in a relationship, the issue eventually threatens to dominate all of their dialog. This is called the anxious-avoidant trap. The reason people in an anxious-avoidant relationship find it particularly hard to move toward more security is primarily because they are trapped in a cycle of exacerbating each other’s insecurities. People with an anxious attachment style cope with threats to the relationship by trying to get close to their partner. People who are avoidant have the opposite reaction. They cope with threats by taking measures to distance themselves from their partners. The closer the anxious person gets, the more distant the avoidant acts. One partner’s response reinforces the other’s in a vicious cycle, and they both remain within the relationship “danger zone.”

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279028.0

The intermittent reinforcement feels like a genuine connection.

this is not to say that you dont have a genuine connection, or love, but to generally express the complicated nature of an anxious/avoidant connection: to a person with an anxious attachment style, that intermittent reinforcement can feel like love - like what love is supposed to be, even if it may be contrary to what they believe on paper. part of the draw is the pursuit of the illusion of connection or security, and maybe even more importantly the powerful relief from the anxieties of separation/distance that can feel like progress achieved toward a stable closeness. but theres never really that security, stability, that "okayness" present. theres always that push/pull underlying.

your strategy has largely looked like "try to get closer to him while avoiding triggering him or pushing him away". it wont work, because it fundamentally is coming from a place of insecurity within the relationship. in essence, managing your anxieties by attempting to manage his. and because hes a pathologically difficult person; to know him closely is to be subject to his triggers and his ways.

on a more human level, ex romantic partners attempting to be friends, where one is attempting to be future romantic partners, and one is currently in a romantic partnership while playing the two against each other, is just a very complicated place to be, for both of you, and thats not even to mention the complexity of a personality disorder in the mix.

is it possible to have a relationship with him without this complication(s)? theoretically, yes, but that depends upon one or both of you breaking the cycle. the very real love you have for him and the history between the two of you not withstanding, in a lot of ways, you are kryptonite for each other. but moreover, for you to become secure in what the relationship is, it would probably necessitate coming to view him, and the relationship, very differently. chicken or the egg.

[SinisterComplex]

"Detaching doesn't mean giving up.  Detaching means finding yourself without him in the immediate picture."

My dear Tina, to elaborate on the thought from Pook...he is spot on. To provide a little more context...detaching definitely doesn't mean giving up. Essentially try to take the perspective that are you letting go of control of that which you have no control over. Again to reiterate something I have trumpeted many times...indifference is key. Do not place your hopes and dreams on 1 particular outcome (this creates anxiety and desperation which is coming from a place of weakness). Keep an open mind and be free and build your foundation from there to where you are good regardless of what comes your way.

You have to truly focus on being happy with YOU for YOU and let everything else fall into place. Its more like you go out gambling purely for fun and entertainment with only $50 and that is all you are putting into it. It is your budget. However, you could win big...awesome, but that isn't the point. The point is just to have fun and just say F it and go for it! In essence, gambling is all about probability, luck, chance, etc...a lot of which is not in your control. The only thing you are in control over is your allotted budget and having fun. Whatever else happens in addition is icing on the cake because you are happy regardless of the outcomes (this is an example of coming from a place of power). Always strive to put yourself in win-win scenarios. Make sense?

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

is it possible to have a relationship with him without this complication(s)? theoretically, yes, but that depends upon one or both of you breaking the cycle. the very real love you have for him and the history between the two of you not withstanding, in a lot of ways, you are kryptonite for each other. but moreover, for you to become secure in what the relationship is, it would probably necessitate coming to view him, and the relationship, very differently. chicken or the egg.

"Detaching doesn't mean giving up.  Detaching means finding yourself without him in the immediate picture."

My dear Tina, to elaborate on the thought from Pook...he is spot on. To provide a little more context...detaching definitely doesn't mean giving up. Essentially try to take the perspective that are you letting go of control of that which you have no control over. Again to reiterate something I have trumpeted many times...indifference is key. Do not place your hopes and dreams on 1 particular outcome (this creates anxiety and desperation which is coming from a place of weakness). Keep an open mind and be free and build your foundation from there to where you are good regardless of what comes your way.

You have to truly focus on being happy with YOU for YOU and let everything else fall into place. Its more like you go out gambling purely for fun and entertainment with only $50 and that is all you are putting into it. It is your budget. However, you could win big...awesome, but that isn't the point. The point is just to have fun and just say F Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) it and go for it! In essence, gambling is all about probability, luck, chance, etc...a lot of which is not in your control. The only thing you are in control over is your allotted budget and having fun. Whatever else happens in addition is icing on the cake because you are happy regardless of the outcomes (this is an example of coming from a place of power). Always strive to put yourself in win-win scenarios. Make sense?

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks for your replies, they were much needed.

I think that I not only have to view him and the relationship different, but also myself differently. I don`t want to be scared of my feelings anymore, or of life without him.

If I think about it for a moment, overall, I`m still winning in my own way. I am healthy and have good friends and there are many possibilities for the future.

I want to focus on cooking, cleaning my space, reading, exercising, exploring new neighbourhoods, working. Building my relationships, building my communication skills.

I want to be the person you describe, SC. That person wouldn`t sit in their anxiety for so long. That person would think, hey I said what I was thinking in the moment, it made him mad oh well  . I`ll either hear from him again or I won`t, it`s out of my control. If I do, great I`ll have a new perspective, if not so what, I`ll grow and meet new people (as I already have). Life will work out.