What to do with my ex son

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all

I’m starting this thread to get advice on how to proceed.

I’ve posted extensively regarding my final breakup 3 months ago under the topic Break up.

My situation is this. I was in a 12 year relationship which ended. There is no going back and I know it’s final. When I met her she had a 3yr old son who I’ve raised as my own and he is now 15.

Just for context my ex monkey branched to another guy in America (I’m in UK), it ended with her ghosting me after taking money from me to finance her trip.

She was always very abusive to us both and I’m afraid I see similar traits in him. But he does have an awareness of it unlike her.

She abandoned her son with a relative who has only seen him a handful of times while she was there. Her son has no phone so I have no direct contact with him.

However recently he contacted me (via his new phone). He states that he loves me and wants to be with me and not his Mum but she gave him permission to contact me.

So for weeks now we have been corresponding via only text. 2 days ago he admitted that his Mum doesn’t know he is texting me.

So I’m in a bit of pickle here as he is not my biological son, he is only 15 and is contacting me without his Mums permission

I texted him back saying he need to get permission and I will text her again asking for contact. But he has carried on texting me.

Yesterday he turned up at my doorstep and said he can’t stand being there anymore. I tried calling her 10 times and no answer then we tried from his phone and again no answer.

Police turned up last night as she reported it. Luckily they were good with me as my ex does have a history with them. Plus I showed that I’ve been trying to call her.

I love him and I can’t kick him out. But the police said he has to go back so he did.

He has carried on texting me today and I’m just worried about how she will react if she knew.

Does anyone have any advice on this. Namely do I have any parental rights to him (I’m in the uk and it’s not very clear what my right are) and secondly has anyone else had children who seem to show the same traits or behaviours as their BPd partner and how do I deal with it (insist he goes therapy?).

Like I said I’m not interested in having any relationship with my ex and in fact I know this is stopping my own healing process but he comes first in my eyes and I want him to live with me.

[Brokenmind]

Hi all

I’m starting this thread to get advice on how to proceed.

I’ve posted extensively regarding my final breakup 3 months ago under the topic Break up.

My situation is this. I was in a 12 year relationship which ended. There is no going back and I know it’s final. When I met her she had a 3yr old son who I’ve raised as my own and he is now 15.

Just for context my ex monkey branched to another guy in America (I’m in UK), it ended with her ghosting me after taking money from me to finance her trip.

She was always very abusive to us both and I’m afraid I see similar traits in him. But he does have an awareness of it unlike her.

She abandoned her son with a relative who has only seen him a handful of times while she was there. Her son has no phone so I have no direct contact with him.

However recently he contacted me (via his new phone). He states that he loves me and wants to be with me and not his Mum but she gave him permission to contact me.

So for weeks now we have been corresponding via only text. 2 days ago he admitted that his Mum doesn’t know he is texting me.

So I’m in a bit of pickle here as he is not my biological son, he is only 15 and is contacting me without his Mums permission

I texted him back saying he need to get permission and I will text her again asking for contact. But he has carried on texting me.

Yesterday he turned up at my doorstep and said he can’t stand being there anymore. I tried calling her 10 times and no answer then we tried from his phone and again no answer.

Police turned up last night as she reported it. Luckily they were good with me as my ex does have a history with them. Plus I showed that I’ve been trying to call her.

I love him and I can’t kick him out. But the police said he has to go back so he did.

He has carried on texting me today and I’m just worried about how she will react if she knew.

Does anyone have any advice on this. Namely do I have any parental rights to him (I’m in the uk and it’s not very clear what my right are) and secondly has anyone else had children who seem to show the same traits or behaviours as their BPd partner and how do I deal with it (insist he goes therapy?).

Like I said I’m not interested in having any relationship with my ex and in fact I know this is stopping my own healing process but he comes first in my eyes and I want him to live with me.

[kells76]

Hi Brokenmind;

It's so hard to navigate BPD relationships when children are involved. We just want to love and take care of the kids, but disordered behaviors from the other parent can make that very difficult.

Am I recalling correctly that you were never married to your ex?

And what is the age of majority for children in the UK -- is it 18?

...

There's the legal side of things and the relational side of things.

Legally, my guess is you may not have standing to have SS15 live with you. His mom seems to be within her rights to determine where her son will live and who she will allow him to contact.

This would be worth double-checking with a lawyer (or attorney or solicitor) in your area, just to be sure. If you have "acted as" his father despite not being married to his mother, it is possible you may have some rights -- but that isn't guaranteed. Often, initial interviews or consultations with legal professionals can be free or lower cost. Having the peace of mind and certainty of your standing could be worth whatever you have to pay.

Relationally, you can consider reassuring SS15 that you will be there for him when he is an adult and is free to choose who he spends time with and calls -- you aren't going anywhere and are committed to his well-being. In the meantime, in order to minimize the chances of his mother completely cutting him off from you, you and SS15 may need to tolerate the distress and discomfort of her parental behaviors, especially avoiding going behind her back.

I wonder if there is any "door in" to her where she might agree to SS15 spending occasional time with you -- some agreement where she would feel like she is "winning" or "on top"? I.e., does she value seeing herself as "a good mom"? Is there a way to find agreement with her that "good moms support their children seeing their stepparents/parental figures"? Not saying to just flatter her or butter her up, but given what you know about her and what's important to her self-image, I'm wondering if there's an extra-legal way for the two of you to reach some visitation agreement -- even if it isn't SS15 residing with you.

Difficult stuff 

[ForeverDad]

He is of school age.  Does he know that schools have counselors who can step in with objective perspectives, skills and observations?  They're there to help the students and he definitely can use all the help he can get.

There's a saying ... older teens sometimes are allowed to vote with their feet.  That is, they can drive, they can get part time work, etc.

Yes, crossing the ocean on his own is a bit much, but it seems she left him behind in your country with one of her relatives?  That would indicate she isn't personally parenting him either.  Is that relative willing to communicate, if legally appropriate?

Mother doesn't want him living with you but could periodic visits or vacations be allowed?  We always tell the disadvantaged 'parent' that some contact is better than no contact.

Meanwhile I agree that holding out the option that he can live his life with more freedom in a couple years would fight hopeless feelings.

[Brokenmind]

Hi Kells

Thank you for the replying

Am I recalling correctly that you were never married to your ex?

And what is the age of majority for children in the UK -- is it 18?

Yes you are correct I never married my ex and the age of maturity in the Uk is 18

I looked into this and there are two criteria for a parental responsibility agreement.

Firstly, you must be married to the biological parent that the child lives with. Secondly you must have the signed consent of every other person with parental responsibility for the child.

So I have no rights as I’m not the biological parent and I need written consent from not only my ex but also his biological father who has not seen or spoken to him since he was 3 years old.

may need to tolerate the distress and discomfort of her parental behaviors, especially avoiding going behind her back.

I’ve tried and I also didn’t know she didn’t give permission. It was only 2 days ago where he admitted she never told him he could text me.

I did make it clear to him they we need her permission before we carry on communicating and I sent her a text but have had no reply. He then told me she lied  as if I never texted her annd just asked him if he wants to speak to me and he said yes. She hasn’t mentioned it since to him.

But this is my problem, he has carried on texting me, I don’t have the heart to tell to stop but I make it clear in each communication that he needs to get his Mum agreement.

I.e., does she value seeing herself as "a good mom"? Not saying to just flatter her or butter her up, but given what you know about her and what's important to her self-image, I'm wondering if there's an extra-legal way for the two of you to reach some visitation agreement -- even if it isn't SS15 residing with you.

She won’t talk to me or text at all and she has ignored 3 texts of mine regarding her son. I did try buttering her up in way by saying I don’t hate her for what she did and that whatever has happened has happened and I only want to discuss her son as I love him. But again no response.

It certainly is difficult. Regarding whether she sees herself as a good mum. I don’t think she even wants to be one she seems to see her son as an extension of herself or a burden she wished she never had, in her words hundreds of times “he ruined my life”.

What hurts me the most is her abuse of him. She constantly screams at him still and barely feeds him plus he is behind on school as she decide to home school him for the last 2 years.

I just feel so lost and helpless and it is really breaking my heart as he is telling me this by text everyday.

[Brokenmind]

Hi ForeverDad

Thank you in kind for replying, ira really appreciated.

Does he know that schools have counselors who can step in with objective perspectives, skills and observations?  They're there to help the students and he definitely can use all the help he can get.

This is the problem, she started homeschooling him 2 years ago for selfish reasons and it’s gone disastrously. She is trying to get him back into school but doesn’t seem to do anything and is more concerned with what the council will do to her rather than what’s happening with him.

Yes, crossing the ocean on his own is a bit much, but it seems she left him behind in your country with one of her relatives?  That would indicate she isn't personally parenting him either.  Is that relative willing to communicate, if legally appropriate?

So to put it in to context, we all live in the UK, we started living separately two years ago after she cheated on me, but we were still together and and I was supporting her financially as well with her son, she cheated on me with someone who lives in America and lied to me for cash and left him with his Nan. I then found out while she was there.

So the Nan I have no contact with at all. But once she came back after 3 weeks he is now back with her.

Mother doesn't want him living with you but could periodic visits or vacations be allowed? 

I suggested of this would be a possibility to her son but he is adamant that his Mum really really hates me at the moment.

Meanwhile I agree that holding out the option that he can live his life with more freedom in a couple years would fight hopeless feelings.

Oh we discussed this and he wants to move in with me once he is able to legally. It’s the here and now that I’m not sure what to do.

So my ex who hates me (I’m guessing for finding out she was cheating again who knows),

Her son who is 15 is secretly sending me texts and then deleting them. I’ve made it clear in the texts that I thought she knew all this time.

But for the last 2 days he is texting me still. And it’s about what abuse he is suffering from her, the screaming, not adequately feeding him, no movement on going  back to school and the constant smoking of cannabis.

I feel like I’m his only outlet so I don’t want to tell him to stop texting me and abandon him.

I’m just terrified of her finding out and what she may do.

[ForeverDad]

He sounds like he can at least handle some responsibilities and - to an extent - stand up for himself.  Perhaps he ought to report himself to his local children's services agency, that he wants back in regular school and food, etc?

What's hard to know in advance is whether his current situation with housing, education, food, etc is "actionable" for an agency to step in.  There are rules and laws but they're not necessarily cut and dried in stone, typically family services has some level of discretion on how it responds.

As for him texting you, you have little control over his actions, all you control is your response.  Let me compare the situation to a similar scenario.  Imagine his mother was in therapy and you had something to share with her therapist.  But her therapist doesn't have her permission to share information or even communicate with you.  That wouldn't necessarily limit you from updating the therapist, he just couldn't respond.

Perhaps it is similar with the teen?  You can't respond technically but you can't stop him from texting.  So... listen?

[Notwendy]

I don't know what is in the UK but In the US, I think calls to child protective services are anonymous. If you made the call, they would investigate. He would have the opportunity to speak up about the abuse, no food, and the pot smoking. If he got removed from the home, I wonder if you could apply to be the foster parent?

I think in the US, many teens are placed in group homes if they can't live wit their parents. Even if he was placed in a group home, that might be better than living alone with his BPD mother.

I wonder if there are similar services in the UK?

[EyesUp]

@BMind,

I like the direction @FD is going here.

I'll add this:

What would you do if he was your biological son, or if you and your ex were still happily together?   My guess is that you'd consider how to encourage and support a 15yo son to develop into a self-sufficient and satisfied adult.

As FD suggested, carefully consider how you engage with him.  That's the only thing you truly can do.

If he's home schooled, he might have some schedule flexibility and the ability to begin to work outside the home.  Encourage him to get some part time work - even volunteer work - anything that will get him out of the house and into something that promotes independence, independent thinking, and interaction with others.  

I'm guessing that your ex might make this difficult, but it's a perfectly normal thing for a 15yo to do... so don't encourage him to defy his mom, but do encourage him to take responsibility for himself.

In parallel, I completely support "playing the long game" - in less than 3 years, if you want to open your doors to him, let him know that you'll always be there for him.

My sense is that you need to navigate this very carefully - to avoid setting him up to jump from mom's ship to yours without any actual plan for himself at the age of 18.  

If mom is not promoting next steps - work, school, etc. - then it indirectly falls to you to share ideas and hope they take hold.  The opportunity here is not to be a rescuer, but to act like a father under very challenging circumstances.  That means promoting independence, rather than enmeshment and dependency - which is often a part of the BPD experience.

Finally - does he have a smartphone?  If yes, you might want to communicate via some app with encryption in order to avoid a trail of calls or texts.  i.e., even if he deletes texts, they may still show up on the phone bill.  On the other hand, you can chat or even call via whatsapp (or some other apps) without creating a history on the phone bill.  Ask me how I know about this... Ironically, I learned all about it when my uBPDxw had her affair...

[Brokenmind]

Hey FD thanks for the response.

He sounds like he can at least handle some responsibilities and - to an extent - stand up for himself.  Perhaps he ought to report himself to his local children's services agency, that he wants back in regular school and food, etc?

He would be too afraid of being taken into care to do that. I’ve been his father figure for the last 12 years. 10 years of that was living in my house and I did everything to make sure his needs were met, that’s why we have such a bond. But I feel guilty for the last 2 years when they moved out and they way she has been with him. I have thought on many occasions to report it myself as you can do it anonymously but in the UK unless it’s physical, or worse, abuse they don’t do anything.

She will be getting in trouble for the school debacle but most likely a fine.

Perhaps it is similar with the teen?  You can't respond technically but you can't stop him from texting.  So... listen?

But how do I even begin to tell him he can carryon texting me but I just won’t respond? It will break his heart.

That’s my problem right now. He has been abandoned and let down enough and I don’t want to do the same to him. But at the same time I’m worried that I’m texting him without her consent.

[Brokenmind]

Thanks NotWendy

There is in the UK too but unfortunately services are really stretched so it takes a lot for them to remove the child so as long as he is not in physical danger they don’t do anything.

She does feed him but from what he has been telling me not regularly, so a sandwich and a meal really late and it’s normally a takeaway. It breaks my heart as for 10 years i used to make his breakfast and prepare his lunch for school and cook dinner when I got home from work and now he is enduring this.

Also there are homes in the UK but they are notoriously rough places and I wouldn’t want him there either.

Thing is if it came down to it I have my own home and can work from home too if I wish so I know they would allow him to live with me. But she would never let him live with me despite what he wants.

[Brokenmind]

What would you do if he was your biological son, or if you and your ex were still happily together?   My guess is that you'd consider how to encourage and support a 15yo son to develop into a self-sufficient and satisfied adult.

This exactly what I want. He feels abandoned and abused by his Mother. Even whilst together although I ignored her abuse to me I could not with her abuse of him. He is the main reason I would get actually angry and the main reason I stayed for the last 5 years of the relationship.

All I want from her is to allow me to be part of his life.. That’s it. I don’t care about anything else and I wish her relationship does go well and she decides to live there with him which may give rise to him moving in with me.

If he's home schooled, he might have some schedule flexibility and the ability to begin to work outside the home.  Encourage him to get some part time work - even volunteer work - anything that will get him out of the house and into something that promotes independence, independent thinking, and interaction with others.  

I'm guessing that your ex might make this difficult, but it's a perfectly normal thing for a 15yo to do... so don't encourage him to defy his mom, but do encourage him to take responsibility for himself.

She already told him to get a job when he turns 16 but I don’t think that would help him. He is too far behind in his schooling. I already pay for him to go martial arts, and football. He already volunteers with me for a cancer charity but I’ve  offered to pay for private tutoring for him to catch up which she refused despite this being what he needs.

All I want from her is to allow me to be part of his life.. That’s it. I don’t care about anything else and I wish her relationship does go well and she decides to live there with him which may give rise to him moving in with me.

In parallel, I completely support "playing the long game" - in less than 3 years, if you want to open your doors to him, let him know that you'll always be there for him.

[/quote

My hope is that when he turns 16 he will move in with me. But legally I don’t think he can until he is 18. And thats the issue if I’m not allowed contact or just him texting me with no reply from me; will he feel the same about me in 3 years?

I assume she intends to move to America with this guy so if that happens maybe she will allow it as her son thinks this is what she wants. But whether she will allow him to live with me is another matter as she (in his words) hates me so much.
.  

Finally - does he have a smartphone?  If yes, you might want to communicate via some app with encryption in order to avoid a trail of calls or texts.  i.e., even if he deletes texts, they may still show up on the phone bill.  On the other hand, you can chat or even call via whatsapp (or some other apps) without creating a history on the phone bill.  Ask me how I know about this... Ironically, I learned all about it when my uBPDxw had her affair...

We only communicate via WhatsApp text via WiFi so he delayed the chat each time. He does not call me because she is constantly there and only has when she goes shopping for 5-10min. Again he deletes it.

It’s how I found out about her second cheating on me. So I kinda had to learn about that as well. It’s funny because she taught me how to check from how she used to check my phone everyday. (Going into deleted folders, checking the archive for messages, looking at when I last used WhatsApp etc)

This is so hard for me right now.

Not only am I trying to get through my own depression and devastation of my life as well as this. Me and her son have such a strong bond as for 10 years (most of his life) we all lived together and we were both victims of her. Him more so.

He is what I feel guilty about. I feel like I abandoned him 2 years ago to save myself and only made things worse by enabling her behaviours by financially supporting her and keeping my life on hold.

I feel like in 12 years I destroyed my career, lost my friends and family as we became enmeshed and now I’ve lost my son. So all that pain and suffering is immense and  I stayed because he and to be honest her was all I had left.

I just feel so stupid and less of a man. Why couldn’t I have done things differently? Why did I give up on everything for her? Why did I not leave when I saw her abuse not only of me but of him. I bloody condoned it in a way.

Typical day would be she screams at him for playing on his iPad and although she has a point she would reduce him to tears with the hateful words she used. I would get angry and try and resolve it but how do you explain to a child that when his Mother says “you ugly piece of s@#t i hate you and wish i aborted you, go back to your ugly Dad” what can you say to make it better? I would just sit there hugging him and telling him she doesn’t mean that.

In an ideal world, I wish that she moves to America and asks if I want to look after her son. Her family don’t speak to her at all but I have good relations with them. So I will also have their support if he lives with me.

Waiting till he turns 18 I fear where he would be in life. Uneducated, jobless, angry and with a lot of childhood trauma to deal with. I want him to go to university, get a good job and lead a good life.

My other fear personally is that he has developed his own personality disorder and I will always have her abusive  shadow in my life. All my family are telling me they don’t think it’s a good idea and I need to cut cleanly but I can’t abandon him.

[Notwendy]

I have a mother with BPD and it seems cruel on her part to not allow her son to have contact with you. You are the only father he knows. While you feel badly about how this situation happened- she has her role in it too- her restrictions are not in his best interest.

If it's any consolation- your being there for him to speak to does mean a lot. We were not allowed to speak to anyone about my BPD mother's behavior to anyone- and this young man has you to speak to.

I don't think it's possible to predict if a child of a pwBPD will have a PD themselves. There is some genetic predispositon but it's not 100%. I don't have BPD. I think other consequences such as anxiety, behavior issues may be more prevalent but not necessarily so.

Being behind in school is concerning but one doesn't know why that is- is he anxious, depressed, inconsistent home schooling,  or even has a learning difference. University at 18 may not be in reach for him right away but there is trade school or even working a job for a bit after high school to figure out what jobs suit him.

If the best you can do is be there to speak to, and he knows you have confidence in him, that is something. Yes, you left his mother but staying with her also doesn't stop her behavior. My parents stayed together. I think my father's presence probably helped to buffer some of my mother's behavior with us some but on the other hand, a lot of it was enabled too. Rather than wonder about that "road not taken"- you being a stable person in this young man's life does mean a lot. Eventually though, it will be up to him to decide on his own steps to independence.

[Brokenmind]

Hey NotWendy

Firstly Im sorry if this brings anything up for you.

I have a mother with BPD and it seems cruel on her part to not allow her son to have contact with you. You are the only father he knows. While you feel badly about how this situation happened- she has her role in it too- her restrictions are not in his best interest.

But thats the problem NW, she has never acted in his best interest. She can talk all she wants about how much she loves him but her actions have always spoken otherwise. For me she behaved almost like an older sister who is forced to parent him and not his Mother. Begrudgingly doing the bare minimum then blaming everyone else for doing it poorly or for her outbursts.

If it's any consolation- your being there for him to speak to does mean a lot. We were not allowed to speak to anyone about my BPD mother's behavior to anyone- and this young man has you to speak to.

Im sorry to hear that you went through that and thank you for the kind words. He does have me but I feel guilty that he went through this with his Mum. 

You know he told me that growing up he felt loved by me alone and that he thought his Mum was a bad person but as I was not his real Dad he was terrified of losing me and being alone with just his Mum if we split up. The fact that this was my fear as well hence why i never left her despite all the abuse speaks volumes. He would constantly cling on to me in the morning before I go work, it was the few times of the day when she wasn't there as she was still asleep. I still weep thinking about that,

I don't think it's possible to predict if a child of a pwBPD will have a PD themselves. There is some genetic predispositon but it's not 100%. I don't have BPD. I think other consequences such as anxiety, behavior issues may be more prevalent but not necessarily so.

Im glad to hear that NW and its my hope for her son but unfortunately he does have some behaviours which are concerning which is not surprising considering what he has gone through.

My parents stayed together. I think my father's presence probably helped to buffer some of my mother's behavior with us some but on the other hand, a lot of it was enabled too. Rather than wonder about that "road not taken"- you being a stable person in this young man's life does mean a lot. Eventually though, it will be up to him to decide on his own steps to independence.

This is exactly my guilt right now, I feel like I enabled her to behave like she did to him. I know if she wasnt with me he would of been taken out of that abuse. The fact that I was stable, working had my own home the local council took no action. So in essence I provided a front for her and that makes me feel like I failed him.

You are right, the past is the past now and I can only try and help him. If he does well in his gcse exams next year then he will get to go College and then University. He is more than capable and is actually very intelligent. But he is I would say 2 years behind in terms of schooling, which kills me as he was top of the class always when we lived together and I made sure he stayed on top of his studies.

NotWendy, thank you for replying and sharing as well it really helps.

[Notwendy]

I think my father must have felt conflicted too. Staying may have diffused some situations, leaving, in their time, meant custody went to the mother. But staying enabled her too.

Your son will see this in different perspectives as he gains maturity. A teen can not comprehend all that goes into the dynamics of a relationship with someone with BPD- and also the disorder. He can only see it from his teen age point of view.

He will grow up and your relationship with him will be more as adult to adult. But you can still be a father to him.

My father is deceased now and my mother is elderly. I have wondered how is it that he could have enabled her behavior. Now, though, as her "next of kin" in her elder years and involved with her elder care, I understand the situation better. She is severely affected with BPD. It's difficult to see the extent of her emotional distress and yet, she is also emotionally and verbally abusive so there has to be boundaries. She responds to boundaries by feeling hurt or anger. It is difficult to say "no" to her. I can see why that was difficult for him.

But regardless of what my father did or didn't do- we are far better off because of him. In fact, I attribute the good in my childhood to him. Regardless of what you did or didn't "do right"- he has someone who parented him - who cares for him.

In a few years, your son will be able to make his own decisions about what kind of relationship he will have with his mother and with you. You can still be there for him as a father. All you can do now is the best you are legally able to do.

[ForeverDad]

When I wrote earlier that family court and various associated agencies do have discretion as to how vigorously they apply their rules and policies, note what happened when his mother reported his whereabouts.

They did send him back to wherever his mother wanted him... but they did not charge you with abduction or something similar.  They recognized that you had a decade-long family relationship and that moderated their handling of the matter.

So sometimes real life is not as "cut and dried" as the laws and procedure may state.  Determining whether there is a middle ground - and to what extent her ever-changing moods may impact it - is the challenge.

[EyesUp]

She already told him to get a job when he turns 16 but I don’t think that would help him. He is too far behind in his schooling.


There are a lot of different types of jobs and different types of schooling.  What do you think his mom envisions for him at 16?  Do you have a different view?  What about him?  Why is work dependent on schooling?  i.e., when I was 15, I swept a warehouse floor and unloaded trucks a few afternoons each week.  It was after school, but it would not have made a difference if I was home schooled or not.  Hanging out with a bunch of guys who were generally older was eye opening and helpful to me...  and had nothing to do with my education, past, present, or future.  I'm suggesting a path out of the house and toward self-sufficiency, not a master plan.  Does that make sense?

I already pay for him to go martial arts, and football. He already volunteers with me for a cancer charity but I’ve  offered to pay for private tutoring for him to catch up which she refused despite this being what he needs.


Are you still actively paying for these things at this point?  If so, how is this managed and coordinated with him, or his mom?  Given the various ways things may play out in next few years, it's probably a good idea to document everything you've done over the past ~10 years.

Hope the rest of your weekend was ok.

Hang in there.

[Notwendy]

I agree that a job can be good for teens. However, I question why she wants him to get a job. It is to supply her with money?

He also might benenefit from being evaluated for his school difficulties. He may not be able to concentrate on his studies if he's anxious. It's hard to do homework at home if his mother is yelling at him. It's also possible that he has a learning difference that is causing him the difficulty.

For someone who is behind in school- the academic demands of going straight to university after high school could be stressful and he may not have the foundation to keep up with studies. For him- if he has the option of staying with you once he reaches adulthood and catching up in school, working a job- experiences that will help prepare him for independence- that might be a an option to consider.

[Brokenmind]

Hi NW

He will grow up and your relationship with him will be more as adult to adult. But you can still be a father to him.

This is my hope. I just want the best for him. This is also what annoys me about my own family. They keep telling me I need to fade away as he is not my biological son. It annoys me as they dont seem to understand that from aged 3 I was not only his Father figure, but also the only other person in his life aside from his Mother who as you know has her issues. I understood my familys mentality on this.

My father is deceased now and my mother is elderly. She is severely affected with BPD. It's difficult to see the extent of her emotional distress and yet, she is also emotionally and verbally abusive so there has to be boundaries. She responds to boundaries by feeling hurt or anger. It is difficult to say "no" to her. I can see why that was difficult for him.

My condolences for your Father NW and this cant be easy for you dealing with your Mother on your own. With her son, he loses his temper with her at times and at other times just ignores her rages. He does have a complete lack of respect for her now.

NW can I ask as your Mother is older now, did the severity of her bpd change with age? My ex is 43 and her symptoms are still the same since I met her at at 31. According to her family she was a lot worse prior to that.

Did it get better to deal with in her 50s, 60s, 70s or just different challenges but just as difficult? Im interested as I would like to have an insight so I can advice her son.

But regardless of what my father did or didn't do- we are far better off because of him. In fact, I attribute the good in my childhood to him. Regardless of what you did or didn't "do right"- he has someone who parented him - who cares for him.

Im so glad you had your Father growing up. And Thank you for saying that. I think one of my biggest guilt was not doing more for him during the breakdown of the relationship 2 years ago to final break up 3 months ago. But even prior to that during the 10 years I feel guilty for the times she raged on me and I allowed it in front of him and kept compromising. For me thats the worse thing I did as I promised myself not to do that in front of a child as thats what I saw growing up.

My Father does have traits and was quite a cold and rageful person whereas my Mum was very loving and caring but codependent and enabled his behaviour. So it kills me to think that for her son I was my Mother and my ex was my Father in our relationship.

In a few years, your son will be able to make his own decisions about what kind of relationship he will have with his mother and with you. You can still be there for him as a father. All you can do now is the best you are legally able to do.

This is my hope, he already wants to move out when he turns 18 and from there he can move in with me or Ill support him moving out on his own. He said he would love to live with me. So thats 3 years time. I just wished my ex would let me have him now, especially as it would be in his best interest to do so.

Thanks NW, it really helped to see it from your perspective as a daughter.

 

[Brokenmind]

I agree that a job can be good for teens. However, I question why she wants him to get a job. It is to supply her with money?

I was thinking the same thing. She wants him to get a job I believe to allow her to save more money for her trips to America. Her partner does not pay for her trips. Prior to this her son wasnt even allowed to go the shops on his own due to her fears.

He also might benenefit from being evaluated for his school difficulties. He may not be able to concentrate on his studies if he's anxious. It's hard to do homework at home if his mother is yelling at him. It's also possible that he has a learning difference that is causing him the difficulty.

100% right NW, this was the reason I took over helping him with his schooling as she was not capable without getting emotional. I also suspected the same and for years argued with her to have him assessed. Finally aged 9 he was diagnosed with autism. But me and him got through it all so well, he was soon top of his class and he actually enjoyed doing homework with me (something that made my ex very jealous).

For him- if he has the option of staying with you once he reaches adulthood and catching up in school, working a job- experiences that will help prepare him for independence- that might be a an option to consider.

Agree but not the job she wants him to do, which is working in the local cafe. I would rather take him into my work for that where he can start with admin duties and communicating with clients. But he is adamant he wants to be an engineer so he needs to aim for university which is what he says he wants.

I want him to achieve that dream which is why im so concerned now ans unsure of how to help him. Especially given the fact that he told me only a few days ago that his Mother doesnt even know he is texting me.

[Brokenmind]

They did send him back to wherever his mother wanted him... but they did not charge you with abduction or something similar.  They recognized that you had a decade-long family relationship and that moderated their handling of the matter.

So sometimes real life is not as "cut and dried" as the laws and procedure may state.  Determining whether there is a middle ground - and to what extent her ever-changing moods may impact it - is the challenge.

Thanks FD, the police were actually really good with me. My ex does have a past history with her family and temper in general (screaming at school etc), so they were really sympathetic.

With her, she hated all her ex's with a passion and it seems im no different. So its an almost unsurmountable challenge,

[Brokenmind]

There are a lot of different types of jobs and different types of schooling.  What do you think his mom envisions for him at 16?  Do you have a different view?  What about him?  Why is work dependent on schooling? 

Thanks EU. No I do get see the value of working at a young age. I had a part time job as soon as I turned 16 and it helped a lot. His Mum wants him to start working part time at the cafe now and work full time after. She knows the owner. I def differ in this as I and also he wants to go University to persue his dream of becoming an engineer. If he wanted to work and not go Uni I would always support him but this is actually what he has wanted since he was 8.

Are you still actively paying for these things at this point?  If so, how is this managed and coordinated with him, or his mom? 

Its on direct debit so payment comes out directly to them. Its only been since Christmas where Ive had hardly any contact with her. so under 3 months.

I have my bank statements saved for over 20 years now (Im an accountant  ) but obviously does not include cash payments made directly to her.

[Notwendy]

It's great that he has the goal to be an engineer. Whatever time line that is, it may be at his own pace of maturity. There is more to university than classes. There's a social and emotonal aspect of university too.

Your son may need some time to emotionally and academically catch up before he is on his own in the university setting. In the situation he is in, he isn't able to fully concentrate on his studies and also just being a teen ager. See what he is ready for when he graduates high school.

Many teens start out in jobs in food service. I don't think it would be detrimental to him to have such a job, unless the hours are so long they impact his studies or the job socially overwhelms him.

[Brokenmind]

Thank you NotWendy. I just want to support him in anyway I can. What he does and at what pace is down to him and all I want to be is supportive to him in achieving that

A part time job is fine by me but that wasn’t her intention she just wants him to work and forget about studying completely once he turns 16. He and I don’t what that and he is capable of pursuing his dream which is what I want for him.

[EyesUp]

Its on direct debit so payment comes out directly to them. Its only been since Christmas where Ive had hardly any contact with her. so under 3 months.

I have my bank statements saved for over 20 years now (Im an accountant  ) but obviously does not include cash payments made directly to her.

If I understand correctly, you continue to pay and he continues to attend and participate, is that correct?

If true, then mom is certainly aware of your continued involvement... the classes don't magically pay for themselves.  I'd guess that as long as she allows this to continue, there is some implicit agreement/understanding that you are involved in his activities - which could be verified to authorities if it ever came to that.

Do you intend to support him financially through uni, assuming that he's accepted to a program at some point?

[Notwendy]

A part time job is fine by me but that wasn’t her intention she just wants him to work and forget about studying completely once he turns 16. He and I don’t what that and he is capable of pursuing his dream which is what I want for him.

That's sad- but you can only do what you are able to do- and if you can have him at 18- that may be his time to catch up.

Don't underestimate that you are acting as a parent to him, even if it's im small bits. If his mother isn't behaving like a parent- you are the one who can do this for him.

Extended family of my parents have told me they "wished they could have done more". Some of them didn't know the extent of what went on in our family until recently. What I have told them is that I appreciate what they did for me, even if it seems like a little to them- "parental" interactions with me are huge. Also, they would not have been able to do more- my parents would not have allowed that.

I don't have the "typical" parent- child bond with my BPD mother but I was attached to my father who did act like a parent to me but even though he stayed with my mother, there were limitations to how much he could do for us. I understand the kind of dynamics he was dealing with- he did the best he could with a difficult situation. Your son isn't able to understand this at his age. But your being in a father role to him as a child is huge and it doesn't stop at 18. He may not need you in the same way when he's grown, but he will always need a father and you are that father to him.

[Brokenmind]

Thanks NW

If i told you the full extent it may make you sadder. You see when I met my ex her son was just 3. She was completely  alone in that none of her own family spoke to her and if they did it was fraught with toxic behaviours. On his biological fathers side only his Nan saw him but only twice a year and not every year.

So he grew up with just me and her in his life and her son described it in his own words as almost like a Ying Yang relationship in that I was mostly good and his Mother mostly bad.

Thank you for sharing that NW, as it gives me hope that he does see how restrictive it was for me, especially when I had less of a say with his upbringing. She always had the final word in how he was raised, the home schooling being the main one when I really fell out with her for taking him out of school. 

[Notwendy]

If i told you the full extent it may make you sadder.

I believe you. I don't share publically all that I experienced as a child either. We were cared for in terms of clothing, shelter, education, health care. We were not physically abused or neglected in that manner and so didn't come to the attention of people outside the family.

There was good in my childhood and I attribute that to my father. Rather than see what he did for us as less- I think it made all the difference to us.

How a child responds to these situations varies- and some of it depends on the child's nature and resilience too. There's a lot of inconsistency with a BPD parent. Children need consistency and especially children on the spectrum as not having it increases their anxiety. I think your son probably has a lot to cope with. Having a stable adult in his life is a resilience factor too.

[livednlearned]

I may have missed this somewhere ... why does S15 need his mom's permission to contact you?

I'm wondering if you are over indexing on trying to appease her here ...

I understand the topography of these situations. You also have a code. But you're not initiating contact or trying to take him from his mom.

He's a kid who wants to stay in contact with the only dad he's ever known. He knows what his mom is like. He understands the repercussions.

Why not set ground rules that give him a lifeline while making it clear what he can and cannot do (your values, or legal issues if there are any).

[Brokenmind]

I think this is why it is so hard for him. I too had the same as you, although my Father was never emotionally available I at least had my Mother. I tried to change all that for both of them. I had my own home, was working in a well paid job and provided him with a structure and an adult who was there during the waking hours instead of asleep till 3pm everyday.

And this is my problem right now. She has not given permission for him to text me and doesn't know. How do I tell him I cant text back and that Im not willing to risk communicating with him.

I feel like it would break his heart but this puts me in a risky position if she were to find out. 

[livednlearned]

Do you want to get back together with her and being in contact with S15 could jeopardize that?

What is the risky position you're hoping to avoid?