Need to hear from others who have been cheated on....

[who_knows11]

I haven't posted in a long time.  My uBPDw and I had had many discussions about things and were working hard to get better.  By her own admission she felt that things were better than they had been between us in a long time.  Less than 24 hours ago I found she has had an affair.  Last Friday told me she was going to a going away party for a co worker and would be staying the night out of town.  Originally told me one town, then night of told me a different town.  My red flags were up and for a few months now I have had this gut feeling with zero "evidence" or activity to cause it.  Then the other man's wife text me yesterday with screen shots of concrete evidence.  She ended in a completely different town than either of the two she had told me.  There is zero doubt.  I haven't told her I know yet because I like to have things completely thought out before I act.  I will tell her tonight because I can't hang onto it any longer.

I don't really believe this is the only time but it's the only time I have actually had evidence.  We have discussed before two occasions where she has admitted to an "emotional affair" but swore there was no sex.  I don't believe her but never had any real evidence.  Nothing even close.  This time there is no doubt.  She does know that the other man's wife knows because she told me that he had called her and informed her that she found out the night before I found out.  However, she has continued to try to act somewhat normal.  I'm sure assuming that I don't know

I would love some advice from those who have unfortunately had to go through this before.  It will be greatly appreciated

[kells76]

I'm so sorry, who_knows11. That's devastating.

Connecting with counselor or therapist may be helpful as you process what happened and decide what you want. While I have not gone through an affair in my relationship, I have read other members' stories of coping with affairs, and they did get professional help (whether for healing or ending the relationship). You can decide if you want to do couples/marriage counseling or individual counseling just for you. Either way, it doesn't sound like a DIY situation.

A member here reviewed the book Getting Past the Affair by Dr. Douglas K. Snyder and commented:

Whether you want to end the relationship or piece things back together, this is a primer to guide you through the initial trauma so you can understand what happened before deciding how to move forward. Based on the only program that’s been tested--and proven--to relieve destructive emotions in the wake of infidelity, this compassionate book offers support and expert advice. If you stay with your spouse, you’ll find realistic tips for rebuilding your marriage and restoring trust. But no matter which path you choose, you’ll discover effective ways to recover personally, avoid lasting scars, and pursue healthier relationships in the future.

It did not seem to matter, to me, that the therapist told me that the affair was part of her disordered behavior, or she claimed it was ‘going off the deep end hormonally. BPD or no BPD, it still hurt. This book helped me get past pain by focusing on flashbacks, triggers and setting boundaries. When those reasonable boundaries were critiqued as 'being controlling' and ignored  I started to suspect BPD.

The sections about examining your relationship and if you should stay or not probably won’t apply when dealing with a BPD spouse. There are so many other issues to be considered, but the passages about how to take care of yourself and surviving infidelity are very relevant.

Hoping that could be helpful for you.

How is work/daily life going for you personally?

Are you able to get some help with taking care of your kids from your parents, siblings, friends, family...?

[Pook075]

I would love some advice from those who have unfortunately had to go through this before.  It will be greatly appreciated

First off all, that's heartbreaking and I can't imaging the emotions you're dealing with right now.  Because this is so fresh, there are no right answers or guidance that anyone can give you.  My thoughts are for you and your mental health dealing with all this.

My ex wife left me for a man she was having an emotional affair with, and to this day (20 months later) she still denies anything happened.  What I realized over time though was that regardless whether she had sex or not, she betrayed me nonetheless and it wounded me deeply.  For my wife, it was more about keeping it all secret than anything, because she couldn't stand the thought of her reputation being damaged at church or with her family.

We did not reconcile, but I did forgive her for being unfaithful.  The affair wasn't the deciding factor for me because I ultimately decided that I deserved to be with someone who could unconditionally love me for me.  My wife could no longer do that so I moved on.

Again though, this is all very fresh and it took me 15+ months to reach my own conclusions about my marriage.  Every situation is unique and you have to follow your heart, your morals, etc.  I do think you should try to repair things in the short term, every husband should, but none of us can predict what will come of that.  Just follow your heart and see where it leads.

I wish you luck- my heart breaks for you!

[ForeverDad]

In addition to the prior responses, knowing this is a stressful time for you, I would like to ask you to ponder...

Since this has been a concern to you over a period of time, this may very well be a continuing issue in the future.  Even if she responds well - and persons with BPD (pwBPD) traits are known to Deny, Blame Shift and even blame you - would counseling or therapy really resolve her current situation where her feelings/heart is elsewhere?

What is your level of comfort in a marriage?  Can you handle past and possible future affairs?  Historically infidelity is a valid basis to end a marriage.  But that is up to you.

Another complication is that it's not just you two.  You have a child just entering school age and another who is a preschooler.  Some things can be hidden from children but likely they will be affected eventually by other discord in the marriage.

Do you have a concern you ought to do paternity or other health tests?

[who_knows11]

In addition to the prior responses, knowing this is a stressful time for you, I would like to ask you to ponder...

Since this has been a concern to you over a period of time, this may very well be a continuing issue in the future.  Even if she responds well - and persons with BPD (pwBPD) traits are known to Deny, Blame Shift and even blame you - would counseling or therapy really resolve her current situation where her feelings/heart is elsewhere?

What is your level of comfort in a marriage?  Can you handle past and possible future affairs?  Historically infidelity is a valid basis to end a marriage.  But that is up to you.

Another complication is that it's not just you two.  You have a child just entering school age and another who is a preschooler.  Some things can be hidden from children but likely they will be affected eventually by other discord in the marriage.

Do you have a concern you ought to do paternity or other health tests?

I have been trying to ask myself these questions over the last 24 hours. I can tell you that in the mindset I have right now, I can never see her the same way again. Hard to see that changing at the moment.

I have asked the paternity question about my youngest as she told me one of the other things was around that time period. The oldest is definitely mine as he could pass for my twin. The youngest looks like her so I don’t have the “he looks like someone else” argument. After thinking about it though I don’t know if I would want to find out. He’s been mine for 3 years and I don’t even think a DNA test could change that now. He’s certainly better off splitting time with her and me than he would be with the other individual anyway

[ForeverDad]

If you do have the - encounter? - with her tonight, be forewarned it could head south quickly.  Will you have a trusted friend or relative available and nearby in case she escalates?  Will you record yourself so if police get called you would have proof you weren't the abusive or aggressive one?  We certainly don't want you to get carted away by the police.  (My lawyer told me that in his experience police don't try to solve marital disputes, they only defuse the immediate incident which usually means the man gets driven away, either to go elsewhere or under arrest.  Not fair, but that's life.)

She is an adult.  You can't force another adult to live the other's life your way.  Just a kind reminder that this is distressing yet you can only set boundaries for yourself... in this case boundaries about how you respond to the other's actions.

You may lead with logic and other good qualities.

A pwBPD traits may lead with emotions, moods and self-oriented perceptions, to phrase it nicely.

[EyesUp]

Excellent, practical advice from FD here.

@who_knows11, I first found this place when I went through what you're experiencing now.  Like you, I wanted to really think things through.  If you'd asked me in advance what would happen if there was infidelity in my marriage, I would have said "game over" - but when it actually happened, I was completely unprepared to act and my response was unexpected - I wasn't ready to unwind the marriage and I was afraid of consequences for my kids.

Ultimately, it took me about 6 months to work through reconciliation attempts, 2 marriage counselors, and a lot of divorce diligence and attorney interviews.  I'm not saying that you should divorce - that decision is yours alone.  However, unless you have a lot of resources ready to quickly establish a second household, it's a good idea to batten down the hatches while you figure out how you want to proceed.

In my case, like yours, I eventually uncovered multiple affairs.  I also came to understand that "radical acceptance" did not have to mean accepting my X wife's choices or behavior - rather - it could (and ultimately did) mean accepting things about myself, including changes I was able to make - that I had previously not considered.

I hope you're able to get though this time one way or the other feeling stronger.  Either stronger in your relationship with some new understanding - or stronger moving past the relationship...   as the saying goes, pain = weakness leaving the body.

Hang in there.

[Turkish]

Tough and painful place to be in, especially with kids. Has your wife shared with you her plan? Mine was to just keep living with me to live a double life while I primarily took care of our 1 and 3 year old kids.

[who_knows11]

If you do have the - encounter? - with her tonight, be forewarned it could head south quickly.  Will you have a trusted friend or relative available and nearby in case she escalates?  Will you record yourself so if police get called you would have proof you weren't the abusive or aggressive one?  We certainly don't want you to get carted away by the police.  (My lawyer told me that in his experience police don't try to solve marital disputes, they only defuse the immediate incident which usually means the man gets driven away, either to go elsewhere or under arrest.  Not fair, but that's life.)

She is an adult.  You can't force another adult to live the other's life your way.  Just a kind reminder that this is distressing yet you can only set boundaries for yourself... in this case boundaries about how you respond to the other's actions.

You may lead with logic and other good qualities.

A pwBPD traits may lead with emotions, moods and self-oriented perceptions, to phrase it nicely.

I did have the encounter and I did have my phone recording audio throughout.  It went a little different than expected.  She never shed a tear.  I feel like I saw a narcissistic side I had never seen before.  Consider also I'm making these observations through a lens that is totally unclear at the moment so this may not be true.  She wouldn't have fessed up had I not had the evidence and even after she did she wouldn't elaborate on the details until I elaborated for her and then she would agree that I was right.  She did finally admit to a physical affair in the incident that happened 11 years ago as well.  The only time I saw any emotion was when I first said I was cutting off the conversation and going to bed.  She almost, sort of attempted to start crying but I still don't think she actually shed a tear.  Felt like a manipulation tactic to get me to stay and continue to talk.  She's done that for years in our fights.  I actually expected the rage and fit reaction and didn't get it.  This may have been worse though from my perspective.   

[who_knows11]

Excellent, practical advice from FD here.

@who_knows11, I first found this place when I went through what you're experiencing now.  Like you, I wanted to really think things through.  If you'd asked me in advance what would happen if there was infidelity in my marriage, I would have said "game over" - but when it actually happened, I was completely unprepared to act and my response was unexpected - I wasn't ready to unwind the marriage and I was afraid of consequences for my kids.

Ultimately, it took me about 6 months to work through reconciliation attempts, 2 marriage counselors, and a lot of divorce diligence and attorney interviews.  I'm not saying that you should divorce - that decision is yours alone.  However, unless you have a lot of resources ready to quickly establish a second household, it's a good idea to batten down the hatches while you figure out how you want to proceed.

In my case, like yours, I eventually uncovered multiple affairs.  I also came to understand that "radical acceptance" did not have to mean accepting my X wife's choices or behavior - rather - it could (and ultimately did) mean accepting things about myself, including changes I was able to make - that I had previously not considered.

I hope you're able to get though this time one way or the other feeling stronger.  Either stronger in your relationship with some new understanding - or stronger moving past the relationship...   as the saying goes, pain = weakness leaving the body.

Hang in there.

Thank you for sharing this.  I have actually always said I didn't know what I would if this situation happened.  And that was true.  I didn't know.  Now that it has happened I know exactly what I want to do.  I just don't know if I should.  My kids are the biggest concern.  Unless something major changes, I'll never touch her again.  Just can't.  Not after reading the messages I read between her and him.  Messages that she wouldn't repeat to me even though she knew I knew exactly what they said, word for word.  She said she didn't understand why that should matter.  She didn't want to answer questions directly.  She wanted to answer in a round about way without directly stating the truth but give me her explanation for why she should answer that way.  I would tell her that's not what I asked and just needed a yes or no.  She would stick to she knew she messed up but she still had a right to her thoughts and perspectives about her answer.  And she does.  I just wasn't asking for those things last night.

As I said, I'll never be able to touch her again.  Obviously that wouldn't go well with a marriage.  Especially her.  One of her biggest issues is abuse from when she was a child.  That has resulted in a hypersexuality and there is no way she is going to live a celibate marriage.  Sorry that sounds weird to say.  This is the only place I can let it out because for now I am stuck carrying this secret around all day, every where I go.

Thank you for your thoughts.  I know there is a long road ahead.  As it seems you ended up with divorce, sorry if I read that wrong, can I ask how it went from the perspective of the kids?  That's my biggest concern right now.  I told her last night that it's a good thing she lied to me about the first affair or we wouldn't even have our kids right now. If not for them I would already be gone.  How do they handle this type of thing?  I'm sure all kids are different but I wouldn't know where to begin

[who_knows11]

Tough and painful place to be in, especially with kids. Has your wife shared with you her plan? Mine was to just keep living with me to live a double life while I primarily took care of our 1 and 3 year old kids.

In the messages he and her had talked about moving into his house, and how great it would be for them to be together.  Last night she said what she wants is to be with me.  When I asked what the messages were about she said that was just her being caught up in it and not knowing how to end it.  Don't believe it at all.  She says she wants to be able to reach a day where I can believe her that she wants to make things right between us.  Again, without a shred of emotion ever being shown

[EyesUp]

Thank you for your thoughts.  I know there is a long road ahead.  As it seems you ended up with divorce, sorry if I read that wrong, can I ask how it went from the perspective of the kids?  That's my biggest concern right now.  I told her last night that it's a good thing she lied to me about the first affair or we wouldn't even have our kids right now. If not for them I would already be gone.  How do they handle this type of thing?  I'm sure all kids are different but I wouldn't know where to begin

At the time this was playing out for me, the kids were D6, D10, and D12 and we were in the middle of the pandemic lockdown.

uBPDxw's AP was the father of one of D6's friends/classmates.  AP's wife was in uBPDxw's friend group - they were spending time together outside of kid activities:  backyard wine nights, stuff like that.   

When I initially confronted uBPDxw (maybe n/BPDxw...), she denied, denied, denied until, like you, I shared proof.  At which point she was not emotional - very to the point, shared the facts of the matter dispassionately and without a hint of remorse - that was eye opening. 

Over the coming days, I asked uBPDxw if she wanted an open marriage, she was aghast I would suggest such a thing...  that was also an eye opener.

I asked her if she wanted to reconcile, to remain married... I got an unequivocal yes.  But when I asked her if she'd end the affair, she hesitated and said "I can't believe I'm the bad guy."

These are the things to pay attention to.  It's easy to overlook/ignore certain things when you're looking for hope, assurance...

To your question about the kids:

To this day, they do not know about their mother's affair.  We live in a small town, my youngest will likely be in school with my uBPDxw's AP's kid for another 10 years...  My goal was not to get revenge, paint a scarlet letter on my xw (that could somehow also paint my kids, directly or indirectly).  My xw's friend group has no idea.  I did not inform the other spouse, and I sometimes feel a bit guilty about that - although I don't think it's my responsibility, per se, to blow up someone else's marriage.  Personally, I think I'd want to know - but I cannot predict the consequences for someone else.  I decided to make my kids the priority, and given the close quarters I've kept it quiet.  I recognize that there may also be a self-protective measure in there, too:  My neighbors don't need to know about my dirty laundry.   I have opened up about the circumstances with close friends, family, and my T - so it's not like I'm holding on to a secret without any support.

Not without conflict, we eventually agreed to a 50-50 parenting plan.  My uBPDxw moved out, I kept the marital home, and she found a place a few blocks away - which is good for the kids.  It's about as good as it gets, in practical terms, in this situation.

All that said, my uBPDxw is full of unresolved anger.  Although she claimed she ended the affair, she never did - he did.  It was a debilitating rejection for her, which she seems to have  transferred to me.  She wanted - expected - to be primary parent - but ultimately settled for 50-50, which she's never actually accepted.  Again, this was an agreement - not a court order - we avoided a trial - but she's never been content with the agreement.  As a result, the downstream consequences are that uBPDxw has engaged in a smear campaign against me with friends, family, community and also D12, now D15. 

A lot of people who know her - and me - recognize it for what it is (even without having all the details):  sour grapes, a persistent victim mentality...  However, it's wearing on D15 who shows signs of alienation.

I mention this because throughout this process, I've been committed to the high road, the long game, and being the best parent I can be - because while my uBPDxw is very smart, very high functioning, I know that my kids will, at some point, start to realize that mom isn't entirely ok, and this likely will have significant consequences for each of them.  So, I'm focused on mitigating that to the best of my ability.

Some other context:  My uBPDxw started dating immediately when we filed. We were still cohabitating and had not formally (legally) separated.  I understood that this was the best possible thing that could happen - for me.  Her attention was elsewhere, she was leaving the kids with me almost every Fri/Sat night, and blowing up her own case that I was somehow an uninvolved or unfit parent.  I gladly accepted every minute she gifted to me, and that was another contributing factor to achieving 50-50.

uBPDxw is now engaged to a guy she started dating during the D process. They've been living together for a while.  My kids are more or less acclimated to him.  Ultimately, I see this as a good thing, because there's a chance that it will provide my x with some stability and something to focus on other than resentments toward me. Although I've stopped being her caretaker, I do want her to be as healthy and happy as possible for the benefit of the kids. 

On my side, I've been relatively slow to start dating, and I have not introduced the kids to anyone at this point. When my x got engaged last fall, D9, then D8, ask me if I have a girlfriend - I answered truthfully: yes - but also added that I wasn't planning to introduce her yet, that she's not moving in, and that we don't plan to get married...  All three kids responded with clear and obvious relief, and D9 and D13 gave me big hugs... (D15 isn't giving hugs under any circumstances in recent months...).

My advice:  demonstrate to your kids that you're stable, that you support them, that you encourage them to think independently (vs. getting them into loyalty binds or enmeshment or codependent behaviors - some combo of which are likely to come from you-know-who).

As you go through this, take time for yourself.  Some advocate "a year of peace" - I think that's the right way to go.

I was exceedingly fortunate in how the legal aspects of my D played out. Still working through the family dynamics... Like anyone else in this situation, you're going to be parenting together - D or no D - forever. I try to keep that front of mind.

Hope that helps.  Don't hesitate to ask anything...

Question for you:  I'm sure you're head is in overdrive, but... do you have an individual T?  And do you have a family attorney?   If no to either of these, I suggest you start looking. Even if you're not sure about D, speaking with an atty to understand the process in your state can help you decide if or when to proceed.  Glad to offer a few thoughts on what to look for if helpful.

[who_knows11]

Hope that helps.  Don't hesitate to ask anything...

Question for you:  I'm sure you're head is in overdrive, but... do you have an individual T?  And do you have a family attorney?   If no to either of these, I suggest you start looking. Even if you're not sure about D, speaking with an atty to understand the process in your state can help you decide if or when to proceed.  Glad to offer a few thoughts on what to look for if helpful.

Thank you for all of that.  I am not interested in revenge or anything like that either.  I told her last night I'm not talking to anyone about it for the kids sake and at least for right now for her sake also.  My two kids are both boys.  I'm not sure how much difference that will make although I would guess it will be a little different.  At least once they are older.  They are 6 and 3 right now and they are my top priority also.  I'm sure at some point I will have to start at least talking to an attorney or something just to be prepared.  She has threatened divorce before and claimed she would be civil about everything.  We had as much as an actual separation agreement drawn up and printed out at one point with different terms regarding different things.  I don't know how she would actually act if it were to really happen.  I have seen her cut off her own family completely.  There is always the possibility she moves on for good and doesn't fight about anything.  Who knows.  I just can't have anything to do with her at the moment and I'm not sure how that can get better.  So I don't know how a resolution could come about

[Pook075]

I did have the encounter and I did have my phone recording audio throughout.  It went a little different than expected.  She never shed a tear.  I feel like I saw a narcissistic side I had never seen before.  Consider also I'm making these observations through a lens that is totally unclear at the moment so this may not be true.  She wouldn't have fessed up had I not had the evidence and even after she did she wouldn't elaborate on the details until I elaborated for her and then she would agree that I was right.  She did finally admit to a physical affair in the incident that happened 11 years ago as well.  The only time I saw any emotion was when I first said I was cutting off the conversation and going to bed.  She almost, sort of attempted to start crying but I still don't think she actually shed a tear.  Felt like a manipulation tactic to get me to stay and continue to talk.  She's done that for years in our fights.  I actually expected the rage and fit reaction and didn't get it.  This may have been worse though from my perspective.   

I'm so very sorry, but at least you now know the truth.  Please let us know what you need and do not hesitate to talk things out here.  This is a safe place, we're all anonymous, and our only goal is to help you make sense of all this while you heal.  We've got your back no matter what path you decide to take through this.

[EyesUp]

Speculation can be counter productive, but here are a few things that can pop up:

Right now, your W understands, intellectually, that things ain't great. So she's in protective mode. However, at any time, if she starts to feel guilt or shame, or perceive the consequences of her actions (which she felt and likely still feels entitled to), that's when chaos will appear: If she's operating in BPD mode, she won't express these things in a "normal" way - they will get inverted, distorted, projected.  She'll need to make you - or someone - the bad guy, in order to preserve whatever positive sense of self she has.

This could be in a day, a week, a month...

In my case, I pushed for reconciliation, and my uBPDxw went along with it - until she didn't.

She leaned heavily on an enabler friend and her sister during this time.  Daily calls for an hour at a time.  As she started to gain sympathy from others, her attitude toward reconciliation shifted. 

Suddenly I was emotionally and financially abusive.
Suddenly she described me in the same terms as an acquaintance's horrible XH who had committed terrible crimes.

When she didn't get agreement, or at least capitulation, things went downhill fast.

Summary: my uBPDxw never demonstrated any accountability or remorse, and when she couldn't maintain a sense of control in the relationship, she steadily found ways to inflame the situation while casting me as a villain in her narrative.  Ultimately, this did make it easier to detach - even though it was super confusing while going through it.

Everyone is different, but if you're not expressing lots of affection or a desire to reconcile, your W is certainly going to perceive the change and will likely seek validation elsewhere...  that could be new romantic attention, or alliances with friends, family, community members, or all of the above.

As you navigate next steps, please take steps to protect yourself:  Consider having a voice recorder running 24/7, or at least whenever your communicating with your W.  If there is a rage event or anything that looks like DV, that's the only thing that might give you some protection, if needed.

Hang in there.

[ForeverDad]

My two kids are both boys... They are 6 and 3 right now and they are my top priority also.  I'm sure at some point I will have to start at least talking to an attorney or something just to be prepared.  She has threatened divorce before and claimed she would be civil about everything.

"Warning, Will Robinson!" (Lost in Space reference)  Another analogy:  If you were the coach on a sports team, would you train your team to learn only defensive strategies?  Or both defense and offense?

Smart advice is to at least get a few legal consultation with experienced family law attorneys.  (They are both private and confidential - for caution and practical reasons, you do not share what you learn with your spouse.)  You may very well need proactive and time-tested strategies.  If you delay, you may end up playing defense, struggling to get even a decent outcome.

About the children.  Your first impression is that you want to hold together the pieces of your marriage "for the kids".  That may not be possible and may even be detrimental.  Follow the quote to its source for the entire post, but here's the short version:

As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.

She'll need to make you - or someone - the bad guy, in order to preserve whatever positive sense of self she has.

When she didn't get agreement, or at least capitulation, things went downhill fast.

Summary: my uBPDxw never demonstrated any accountability or remorse, and when she couldn't maintain a sense of control in the relationship, she steadily found ways to inflame the situation while casting me as a villain in her narrative.  Ultimately, this did make it easier to detach - even though it was super confusing while going through it.

In other words, very likely she will decide to do anything and everything to make you look worse than her.  The problem is that while you will not lie nor defame, she almost surely will.  I had to weather increasingly extreme allegations during separation and divorce.  After nearly 15 years together married, the first 8 years together as religious volunteers, I was stunned.  That is an aspect of BPD, NPD and other PDs... they are a composite of both the good traits and the bad, even the very bad.

[who_knows11]

About the children.  Your first impression is that you want to hold together the pieces of your marriage "for the kids".  That may not be possible and may even be detrimental. 

In other words, very likely she will decide to do anything and everything to make you look worse than her.  The problem is that while you will not lie nor defame, she almost surely will.  I had to weather increasingly extreme allegations during separation and divorce.  After nearly 15 years together married, the first 8 years together as religious volunteers, I was stunned.  That is an aspect of BPD, NPD and other PDs... they are a composite of both the good traits and the bad, even the very bad.

These two are my biggest dilemmas right now.  Which is better for the kids?  I'm afraid I already knew the answer.  That leads to the second problem.  I'm afraid I know how she'll act if the process starts

[ForeverDad]

For many of us it was a matter of... face it now or face it later.  Not much of a choice but it is a choice of sorts.

What you can do is first get prepared.  This is not something you close your eyes, open the door and walk through.

Seek multiple private and legal consultations.  Listen to the strategies and experienced legal advice.  Then determine which lawyer will suit you and your case the best.  Be forewarned that everyday common sense does not apply to court laws, rules and policies.

If you haven't a counselor now, then get some sessions and choose one that works for you.  Our 24/7 remote and largely anonymous peer support is great but you also need local support as well.

It would be great that the children have a counselor too but often the partner opposes that and you may have to wait until family court gets involved.  Good news, court loves counseling!  Until then you can also give a confidential heads up to the school counselors.

Ponder over how to prepare yourself in advance.

• Ensure that some of your money is under your control in a personal, not marital, account since sometimes the stbEx will get triggered and raid the marital accounts or cards.
• Are there any mementos you want to ensure don't get destroyed or disappeared?  Slowly and without fanfare shift them to a location partner has no physical or electronic access to.  (Same goes for copies of your journals, log books, recordings, etc.)
• Copy or safeguard important documents such as deeds, passports, SSN numbers, birth certificates, school records, financial statements (bank, credit, debit, mortgage, loans), etc.
• Have a Go Bag nearby but safe with a set of house keys, car keys, spare wallet with copies of vital documents, changes of clothes for yourself and the children, etc.
• Do all this prep work quietly, don't trigger the other unnecessarily.

[who_knows11]

For many of us it was a matter of... face it now or face it later.  Not much of a choice but it is a choice of sorts.

What you can do is first get prepared.  This is not something you close your eyes, open the door and walk through.

Seek multiple private and legal consultations.  Listen to the strategies and experienced legal advice.  Then determine which lawyer will suit you and your case the best.  Be forewarned that everyday common sense does not apply to court laws, rules and policies.

If you haven't a counselor now, then get some sessions and choose one that works for you.  Our 24/7 remote and largely anonymous peer support is great but you also need local support as well.

It would be great that the children have a counselor too but often the partner opposes that and you may have to wait until family court gets involved.  Good news, court loves counseling!  Until then you can also give a confidential heads up to the school counselors.

Ponder over how to prepare yourself in advance.

• Ensure that some of your money is under your control in a personal, not marital, account since sometimes the stbEx will get triggered and raid the marital accounts or cards.
• Are there any mementos you want to ensure don't get destroyed or disappeared?  Slowly and without fanfare shift them to a location partner has no physical or electronic access to.  (Same goes for copies of your journals, log books, recordings, etc.)
• Copy or safeguard important documents such as deeds, passports, SSN numbers, birth certificates, school records, financial statements (bank, credit, debit, mortgage, loans), etc.
• Have a Go Bag nearby but safe with a set of house keys, car keys, spare wallet with copies of vital documents, changes of clothes for yourself and the children, etc.
• Do all this prep work quietly, don't trigger the other unnecessarily.

How do you begin to handle this with the kids? What am I supposed to tell them? She’s already told me if I’m not going to be able to give her another chance then she understands and wouldn’t fight me in the divorce. But how do explain any of this to the kids?

[ForeverDad]

Depends on the ages and how influenced they are.  There's a saying, "The walls have ears."  Probably they already are aware of the discord.

For all you know they may even be relieved and say they were wondering when you would do something about it.  (Yes, that has happened to some members here.)  Not all kids will react well, a lot depends on whether the problem parent has manipulated them into their mother's support group and enabling her.

Be forewarned there's a third possible reaction - that the kids blame both parents, whether for causing the conflict or for letting it go on for so long.

[EyesUp]

For me, telling the kids was impossible until it was necessary.

Working through the fulltime job of learning about divorce while riding the emotional roller coaster was intense.

Suggested reading:
“Don’t Alienate The Kids”
“Divorce Poison”
“13 Things Mentally Strong Parents Don’t Do”
“Parenting Through Divorce”

See if your state / county has a required parenting class - if they do, take it.

And….  Post here anytime.

In the meantime!  Don’t badmouth the other parent.  Don’t discuss the divorce proceedings with your kids.  Don’t make conditional or speculative comments to your kids. 

Do as much as possible to give them stability and consistency.

Once you’ve had a chance to make a plan - ideally with their mom - that’s when you’re best positioned to break the news.

Focus on the things that matter to them:
Where will I sleep?
Will I still have the same school / friends?
What will change, what will stay the same?

[who_knows11]

Depends on the ages and how influenced they are.  There's a saying, "The walls have ears."  Probably they already are aware of the discord.

For all you know they may even be relieved and say they were wondering when you would do something about it.  (Yes, that has happened to some members here.)  Not all kids will react well, a lot depends on whether the problem parent has manipulated them into their mother's support group and enabling her.

Be forewarned there's a third possible reaction - that the kids blame both parents, whether for causing the conflict or for letting it go on for so long.

The boys are 6 and 3. I’m guessing they will be young enough that they don’t understand what happened. They certainly won’t know what adultery is. I don’t want taint her in their eyes. Don’t won’t anything negative at all suggested. I’m just not sure how you explain the separation to a 6 year old. The youngest wouldn’t understand my words anyway.

[who_knows11]

For me, telling the kids was impossible until it was necessary.

Working through the fulltime job of learning about divorce while riding the emotional roller coaster was intense.

Suggested reading:
“Don’t Alienate The Kids”
“Divorce Poison”
“13 Things Mentally Strong Parents Don’t Do”
“Parenting Through Divorce”

See if your state / county has a required parenting class - if they do, take it.

And….  Post here anytime.

In the meantime!  Don’t badmouth the other parent.  Don’t discuss the divorce proceedings with your kids.  Don’t make conditional or speculative comments to your kids. 

Do as much as possible to give them stability and consistency.

Once you’ve had a chance to make a plan - ideally with their mom - that’s when you’re best positioned to break the news.

Focus on the things that matter to them:
Where will I sleep?
Will I still have the same school / friends?
What will change, what will stay the same?

That’s my feeling also. Won’t say anything until I have to. Everything would be done in an effort to make sure their relationships with her and myself did not change. Knowing the effect is has on them is outside my control is the hardest part. I could control it by staying but who is to say that wouldn’t have a worse effect

[ForeverDad]

My state required attending parenting classes when our temp order started.  Due to the heightened conflict - my stbEx was very aggressive but posturing as a victim - we attended separate classes.

Mediation was the second step in the divorce process, the brief hearing for a temp order was the first.  Mediation failed for nearly all of us.  It was that we refused to Gift Away enough - well, it was - but it was our stbEx who was too entitled and emotionally triggered to truly negotiate.

Of course, the process and the outcome of mediation, as does so much of every aspect in future contact, depends so much depends on how disordered and conflictual the spouse is.

[EyesUp]

Of course, the process and the outcome of mediation, as does so much of every aspect in future contact, depends so much depends on how disordered and conflictual the spouse is.

My X, projecting everything on to me, rejected mediation from the start - claiming that I was too manipulative to mediate in good faith...   I documented multiple sincere attempts to go down that path, and then built a strategy based on litigation.  We ultimately settled immediately prior to the first pre-trial hearing.

The point is:  mediation can work for rational people. When one person rejects mediation, it helps to show the court who is rational and who isn't. Consider what that might mean in your specific situation...  If you offered to mediate, would she agree to try it?  Would she be a fair and honest participant?  Would you waste a lot of time, or could you possibly achieve an agreement?

If you go down the mediation path, be mindful of what happens if mediation fails - take care to remain on the side of reason.

[EyesUp]

@who_knows11

It's been a minute.  How are you doing?

[who_knows11]

@who_knows11

It's been a minute.  How are you doing?

Not great at the moment. She lied to me again yesterday about an event that happened where the other guy ended up calling her. The other guys wife and I have been in contact on and off trading details as we gain info and my wife is stuck on a kick right now of being mad at me because I keep talking to the other wife and finding out things that were said between my wife and the other guy. My wife thinks I’m wrong for talking to her and trading info but it is the only way I have been to get any facts. She wants space for a few days to then have a discussion but I’m not wanting to wait it out because I know she has hidden things this week. The only reason I know she hid them is because of what I found out from the other wife. But my wife is just furious that I’m communicating with her. If I hadn’t have communicated with her I wouldn’t know the things that happened because my wife would not have told me. I’m pretty much done. Our next conversation may include the decision to end it

[EyesUp]

@who_knows11,

If you're anything like I was, you're probably putting a lot of pressure on your wife to come clean, and show some sign of remorse.  You felt that things were improving, only to discover a very different set of circumstances.  In my case, like yours, there was avoidance when I confronted my then-W, and my attempts to communicate were ultimately not helpful to her - or to me.

If your wife is operating with the "normal" n/BPD playbook, this might be a good time to try to really observe how she thinks.

- inability to process shame or demonstrate self-awareness leads to avoidance, resentment, and potentially extreme emotional outbursts?
- little or no ability to express care or awareness of your feelings or the damage that's been done to you; apologies, if any, are "hollow" or insincere, e.g., "sorry you feel that way" rather than "sorry for what I did"?
- possible blame-shift to you for her choices, accompanied by a sense of entitlement, e.g., "of course this happened in light of the situation at home - she just wanted to feel good for a minute"?
- possible blame-shift to her AP, e.g., "it wasn't my idea, I didn't seek this out..."?
 
Your W is likely seeking space to avoid accountability - to you or to herself - but also to avoid your rejection. 

It's an incredible catch-22, and this is one of the great ironies with BPD - rejection is an ever-present concern, and yet BPD behavior often leads to rejection. From a non-disordered POV, this is one of the more direct ways to observe irrational thinking in process. And, of course, it really hurts to be in it.

I remember thinking along the lines of "if she'd show some remorse or at least explain how this happened, maybe I can get through it" - but that was me attempting to project some sort of reason in to an unreasonable situation.  My uBPDxw had never truly given me a reason to expect that such a response should be possible.  I was holding on to an idea (mutual respect, trust, recognition, support), and hoping for an outcome (happy or at least stable life), that was not in the cards.

What are your goals for your discussion with your W? 
What's the outcome you're seeking?
Do you have any non-negotiables or deal-breakers?
Is your W still seeing her AP?

Finally, just as a thought experiment (not saying you want or would do these things, just exploring how your W might respond...):
What would your W say if you offered forgiveness?
What would your W say if you asked for an open arrangement in which the "rules" that she's following applied to both of you?

Hang in there. You will get through this...