Hard day

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Today has been a really hard day, just looking to offload a bit to people who understand. Maybe some insight into the inner workings of my ex as I just don’t understand What’s going on in his head.

I share a baby with my ex who has diagnosed BPD. He has only seen baby a handful of times since birth. We never officially had a ‘break up’ discussion, I moved back in with family towards the end of pregnancy due to his behaviour becoming unsafe  but we said we would keep working on our relationship. But he’s just become increasingly absent since then - it’s been slow and so painful - and keeps making these elaborate excuses of why he’s not seeing our baby. Always my fault. I’ve been trying to encourage meet ups in a public place so they can build a relationship, and have made it clear that before that can happen I couldn’t consider us getting back together as our baby comes first. It’s happened once and was set to happen again this week but he bailed.

He keeps saying he loves me and just wants to be with me and the baby but needs to move on as hes so lonely and miserable. Final blow has been threatening to take me to court to have access to our baby, but also isn’t taking me up on any of the suggested meet ups and has decided 100% to find someone new to start a family with and to forget any idea of us ever getting back together.

I don’t know if he’s just saying it to hurt me (it has), but I am so sick of being made to feel that I have taken the baby away and initiated the break up and forced him into moving on. All I needed to see was commitment and and him taking responsibility for being a parent - I never wanted him to give up on us. But he has decided to move on instead. It’s clearly a pattern with him but I stupidly thought I could be the one to break it. I am heartbroken but no choice but to accept it. I feel so broken.

I’ve left out a heck of a lot of details here.

[Purplegiraffe]

Today has been a really hard day, just looking to offload a bit to people who understand. Maybe some insight into the inner workings of my ex as I just don’t understand What’s going on in his head.

I share a baby with my ex who has diagnosed BPD. He has only seen baby a handful of times since birth. We never officially had a ‘break up’ discussion, I moved back in with family towards the end of pregnancy due to his behaviour becoming unsafe  but we said we would keep working on our relationship. But he’s just become increasingly absent since then - it’s been slow and so painful - and keeps making these elaborate excuses of why he’s not seeing our baby. Always my fault. I’ve been trying to encourage meet ups in a public place so they can build a relationship, and have made it clear that before that can happen I couldn’t consider us getting back together as our baby comes first. It’s happened once and was set to happen again this week but he bailed.

He keeps saying he loves me and just wants to be with me and the baby but needs to move on as hes so lonely and miserable. Final blow has been threatening to take me to court to have access to our baby, but also isn’t taking me up on any of the suggested meet ups and has decided 100% to find someone new to start a family with and to forget any idea of us ever getting back together.

I don’t know if he’s just saying it to hurt me (it has), but I am so sick of being made to feel that I have taken the baby away and initiated the break up and forced him into moving on. All I needed to see was commitment and and him taking responsibility for being a parent - I never wanted him to give up on us. But he has decided to move on instead. It’s clearly a pattern with him but I stupidly thought I could be the one to break it. I am heartbroken but no choice but to accept it. I feel so broken.

I’ve left out a heck of a lot of details here.

[Pook075]

Today has been a really hard day, just looking to offload a bit to people who understand. Maybe some insight into the inner workings of my ex as I just don’t understand What’s going on in his head.

Hey PurpleGiraffe! 

First off, best username ever!  Not sure why but it makes me smile.  =)

Okay, inner-workings of your ex.  He's diagnosed with BPD and that means he's likely to lean on his emotions in the moment more than the average person.  So to understand how he processes things, we need to think about times when we're under some emotional stress.  Think about when you get pulled over for speeding, when you see a friend being bullied, when someone chases you or tries to hurt you, or when you have a massive blowout argument with someone. 

In these situations, you're relying more on instinct than logic, so you might say things that you normally wouldn't say if you were relaxing on your couch at home.  With BPD, he's feeling those emotions a lot more frequently and sometimes way out of proportion to the situation around him. While your stress levels are at a 3 over something, his could be at a 9...so he's freaking out when it's really not that serious.  But to him, it absolutely is that serious because feelings are real.

For instance, if you watch a scary movie and get really freaked out, it doesn't help if someone says there's nothing to be afraid of.  You're freaked out because you're freaked out.

In your communications with him, he's feeling all that anxiety and drama of what could happen from the very first word.  So you're being calm and logical while he's waiting for an atomic bomb to explode nearby.  And that changes everything about how he reacts, his body language, his strange back/forth behavior, etc.  That's why he pushes you away (scared to commit) and can't stand to see you leave (he loves you).

It's what everyone on this site has faced in all of their stories; that horrible push/pull dynamic of mental illness.

Your job is to meet him where he's at and help him stabilize his emotions; that will bring more productive conversations and better outcomes.  Getting there takes work on both your parts and of course, your 1st focus is the baby. But you still need to work on communication for the baby's sake.

I hope that helps!

[Purplegiraffe]

Hey PurpleGiraffe! 

First off, best username ever!  Not sure why but it makes me smile.  =)

Okay, inner-workings of your ex.  He's diagnosed with BPD and that means he's likely to lean on his emotions in the moment more than the average person.  So to understand how he processes things, we need to think about times when we're under some emotional stress.  Think about when you get pulled over for speeding, when you see a friend being bullied, when someone chases you or tries to hurt you, or when you have a massive blowout argument with someone. 

In these situations, you're relying more on instinct than logic, so you might say things that you normally wouldn't say if you were relaxing on your couch at home.  With BPD, he's feeling those emotions a lot more frequently and sometimes way out of proportion to the situation around him. While your stress levels are at a 3 over something, his could be at a 9...so he's freaking out when it's really not that serious.  But to him, it absolutely is that serious because feelings are real.

For instance, if you watch a scary movie and get really freaked out, it doesn't help if someone says there's nothing to be afraid of.  You're freaked out because you're freaked out.

In your communications with him, he's feeling all that anxiety and drama of what could happen from the very first word.  So you're being calm and logical while he's waiting for an atomic bomb to explode nearby.  And that changes everything about how he reacts, his body language, his strange back/forth behavior, etc.  That's why he pushes you away (scared to commit) and can't stand to see you leave (he loves you).

It's what everyone on this site has faced in all of their stories; that horrible push/pull dynamic of mental illness.

Your job is to meet him where he's at and help him stabilize his emotions; that will bring more productive conversations and better outcomes.  Getting there takes work on both your parts and of course, your 1st focus is the baby. But you still need to work on communication for the baby's sake.

I hope that helps!

Thank you :D I’m not sure where the idea for the username even came from haha! I like it too and glad it makes you smile.

That is a really helpful explanation of where he is at and how his mind works.

A problem I am having is that everyone in my ‘corner’ (friends, family, my counsellor, midwife etc) just sees him as a bad dude. Don’t get me wrong, he has said and done some terrible things. But I do believe he is suffering from his BPD - he isn’t gaining anything from his repeated behaviour - and I would like to, as you suggested, try my hardest to communicate with him. But it is difficult when no one from my side thinks I should have any contact with him whatsoever anymore after the way he has behaved. They all believe court would be the best option as it might get him out of my life, but they don’t believe his threats of going to court will ever amount to anything.

He also lies a lot which makes it very difficult to respond. I have been using BIFF responses to not, as my counsellor puts it, step into the boxing ring when he instigates a fight. This either winds him up more or works eventually. Any time I give any snippet of emotion or how I feel he tends to break me the worst with his words.

[EyesUp]

@Giraffe,

I can't imagine what it's like to be a single parent, knowing that your coparent is theoretically ready and willing to participate and yet also knowing that it doesn't happen and that you get mixed messages.

When my kids were born, I don't think there was any force that could keep me away.  I'll hold a baby pretty much indefinitely and throw a swaddle blanket like a ninja.  Baby burrito in a blink.

There could be many reasons why your baby's dad isn't ready to participate, but the fact is: These reasons are likely out of your control.

It's good to know that you have family and that you're doing your best to keep your baby's wellbeing front and center.  Your baby's wellbeing also relies on YOUR wellbeing.  

What are you doing for yourself?  

Please take care.

[Purplegiraffe]

I can't imagine what it's like to be a single parent, knowing that your coparent is theoretically ready and willing to participate and yet also knowing that it doesn't happen and that you get mixed messages.

Thank you. It’s mind boggling. I think if we’d just had a cut and dry break up it might have been easier, but the fact that he is saying one thing but doing another makes things so confusing. He is a master with words and has kept me hanging on hoping for change and involvement for nearly 5 months now. Im just wondering when will it end and how much more can I take? My counsellor predicts his next move is to parade a new love interest in front of me and judging by his recent communications I think she might be right. Gonna be tough.

I am the same as you in that I can’t stand to be away from my little girl. If I didn’t live with her for whatever reason I’d do whatever I could to still see her regularly.

What are you doing for yourself?

Other than having counselling, probably not enough. I love seeing my friends but our time together is often dominated by me stressing about the latest communication with my ex, which I know I need to get out of the habit of!

[Pook075]

But it is difficult when no one from my side thinks I should have any contact with him whatsoever anymore after the way he has behaved.

Here's the thing- your friends and family all have your best interests at heart.  But they can't begin to understand the complexities of BPD.  With a baby in the picture, you have no choice but to communicate with him.  It can be through the courts if necessary, but you'd be so much better off long term if you can find a way to communicate amicably.

Work out communication if you can, but also put yourself and the baby first since he hasn't been stable enough to do that.  I'm not saying to reconcile either- he has to earn your love and affection so make him work for that!  With the kid though, try to meet him halfway once he's ready.

One other thing- is he giving you any financial support?  That you would have to go to court for if he's not willing to make efforts.  Others can give you better advice there since I've never been through that.

He also lies a lot which makes it very difficult to respond. I have been using BIFF responses to not, as my counsellor puts it, step into the boxing ring when he instigates a fight. This either winds him up more or works eventually. Any time I give any snippet of emotion or how I feel he tends to break me the worst with his words.

I get it, and it makes no sense to argue with someone when they're unstable.  By lying to you is not okay either.  So you need to make a boundary that when he lies, you're not going to accept it.  As a father, he has to make time no matter what.  If he's not, then he's dead wrong.  Hold him accountable to that.

[ForeverDad]

You're like us.  Your personality is such that you had to try.  That's why you offered him so many options or solutions.  That's why it's so hard to accept that you trying isn't the issue, rather he's not addressing his issues.  That's on him.  Don't let him Blame you or manipulate your feelings.

[EyesUp]

Other than having counselling, probably not enough. I love seeing my friends but our time together is often dominated by me stressing about the latest communication with my ex, which I know I need to get out of the habit of!

Don't hesitate to lean on this place.  It's great that you have supportive friends, and also that you recognize that friendships need balance. 

One of the things my T often said:  Part of the path to letting go of all the things that didn't make sense, or didn't feel right, is simply doing things that do make sense and do feel right. 

Easier said than done, but if you can spend some time with friends doing things you enjoy or sometimes being present for them - listening to them and their issues (and feeling good about it), it will likely help you get back on track with yourself.

It won't happen overnight, but it's great that you're mindful of this as it's an important part of the journey.

[Purplegiraffe]

Here's the thing- your friends and family all have your best interests at heart.  But they can't begin to understand the complexities of BPD.  With a baby in the picture, you have no choice but to communicate with him.  It can be through the courts if necessary, but you'd be so much better off long term if you can find a way to communicate amicably.

Work out communication if you can, but also put yourself and the baby first since he hasn't been stable enough to do that.  I'm not saying to reconcile either- he has to earn your love and affection so make him work for that!  With the kid though, try to meet him halfway once he's ready.

I think you're right. I don't really believe he will go through with his threats of court. Maybe it's best to give him some space now to work out if he's ready.

One other thing- is he giving you any financial support?  That you would have to go to court for if he's not willing to make efforts.  Others can give you better advice there since I've never been through that.

Absolutely none. He actually owes me a huge sum of money that he is not paying.

I get it, and it makes no sense to argue with someone when they're unstable.  By lying to you is not okay either.  So you need to make a boundary that when he lies, you're not going to accept it.  As a father, he has to make time no matter what.  If he's not, then he's dead wrong.  Hold him accountable to that.

He has now told me that he's officially moving on and hopes to start a new family as I've 'pushed him out'. To be honest I think he might have already moved on in the past few weeks and is lashing out because of guilt and trying to justify that.
Ours isn't his first child. As far as I know he has no contact with the others because of his behaviour, and living with this pretty much destroys his life. I don't know how to get through to him that he doesn't need to repeat the same mistake again this time, and that trying again with someone new is just going to have the exact same outcome. I thought about writing a letter. But I just don't think he is able to take accountability.

[Purplegiraffe]

You're like us.  Your personality is such that you had to try.  That's why you offered him so many options or solutions.  That's why it's so hard to accept that you trying isn't the issue, rather he's not addressing his issues.  That's on him.  Don't let him Blame you or manipulate your feelings.

Thank you. It's good to know I am not alone and that there are others that have gone to these lengths too. Letting go of hope that he will try is proving to be my biggest challenge, but I know it has to be done.

[Purplegiraffe]

Don't hesitate to lean on this place.  It's great that you have supportive friends, and also that you recognize that friendships need balance. 

One of the things my T often said:  Part of the path to letting go of all the things that didn't make sense, or didn't feel right, is simply doing things that do make sense and do feel right. 

Easier said than done, but if you can spend some time with friends doing things you enjoy or sometimes being present for them - listening to them and their issues (and feeling good about it), it will likely help you get back on track with yourself.

It won't happen overnight, but it's great that you're mindful of this as it's an important part of the journey.

This is really great advice and something I will start to put into practice now. Thank you. I'm really grateful for this community.

[ForeverDad]

He has now told me that he's officially moving on and hopes to start a new family as I've 'pushed him out'. To be honest I think he might have already moved on in the past few weeks and is lashing out because of guilt and trying to justify that.
Ours isn't his first child. As far as I know he has no contact with the others because of his behaviour, and living with this pretty much destroys his life. I don't know how to get through to him that he doesn't need to repeat the same mistake again this time, and that trying again with someone new is just going to have the exact same outcome. I thought about writing a letter. But I just don't think he is able to take accountability.

Likely he already knows this.

Making babies and jumping to the next relationship seems to be his "comfort zone" as dysfunctional as that probably sounds.  People with BPD behaviors (pwBPD) typically don't listen to reason and logic, especially with those who have been closest to them.  It is, after all, a disorder most evident in the closest relationships.

If you want child support, for all you know you may have to get in line behind other mothers, if they're not on welfare or some other assistance package.  If he threatens to go to court to force visitation because you seek child support, no one can predict whether he would follow through, but doesn't seem likely.

[Pook075]

I don't know how to get through to him that he doesn't need to repeat the same mistake again this time, and that trying again with someone new is just going to have the exact same outcome.

This is a very mature, very level-headed statement- and it's 100% true.  He will repeat past mistakes because it's a cycle within himself that he's trapped in.  Hopefully you can realize that this wasn't your failure and it's not your job to "fix him".  The only way he changes is when he's ready for actual change.

Also keep in mind there's a chance he only said this to you in order to make you jealous.

[Purplegiraffe]

Likely he already knows this.

Making babies and jumping to the next relationship seems to be his "comfort zone" as dysfunctional as that probably sounds.  People with BPD behaviors (pwBPD) typically don't listen to reason and logic, especially with those who have been closest to them.  It is, after all, a disorder most evident in the closest relationships.

If you want child support, for all you know you may have to get in line behind other mothers, if they're not on welfare or some other assistance package.  If he threatens to go to court to force visitation because you seek child support, no one can predict whether he would follow through, but doesn't seem likely.

This is true. I keep spending hours and hours trying to write a draft to respond to his latest message which contained lots of threats. But in fact, there really is nothing I could say to reason with him.

Do you think that the best thing to do is to only respond to contact regarding seeing our baby? I have considered asking for the money he owes kindly and saying that if I receive another threatening response I’ll have no choice but to stop all contact, which I don’t want to have to do. And asking him to think about what is best for our baby, as surely it isn’t for her parents to be at war with each other.

As I write that I realise again it’s probably futile trying to reason with him. I wonder if it’s better just to walk away and accept I won’t get financial support from him, rather than a long and painful court battle.

[Purplegiraffe]

This is a very mature, very level-headed statement- and it's 100% true.  He will repeat past mistakes because it's a cycle within himself that he's trapped in.  Hopefully you can realize that this wasn't your failure and it's not your job to "fix him".  The only way he changes is when he's ready for actual change.

Also keep in mind there's a chance he only said this to you in order to make you jealous.

I think all I can do is pray that one day he does find himself ready for actual change, but not expect it as there’s no evidence yet to show it’s likely. His narrative says otherwise, but I really really tried and am still open to trying if he was to change.

I cannot imagine me moving on and being with anyone else when it’s all so fresh. In fact right now I can’t imagine it at all even in the future, though I’m sure that will change in time. So even if it is true that he’s moved on, I am doubtful it will last when I’ve had messages from him saying how much he loves me within the last week. But I’m aware usual logic can’t be applied when it comes to someone with BPD. I am sure in the beginning of our relationship I was just someone replacing someone else.

[Pook075]

This is true. I keep spending hours and hours trying to write a draft to respond to his latest message which contained lots of threats. But in fact, there really is nothing I could say to reason with him.

Feel free to post it here and we can help you work on it together.  And try not to stress too much about it; focus only on what you can control!

[Purplegiraffe]

Feel free to post it here and we can help you work on it together.  And try not to stress too much about it; focus only on what you can control!

Thank you

[Purplegiraffe]

Feel free to post it here and we can help you work on it together.  And try not to stress too much about it; focus only on what you can control!

Oh how annoying, I just wrote out a whole response but it only posted the first line! I’ll try again.

I’ve been thinking of simply writing ‘I keep writing replies, but I don’t think I know what to say anymore. I’m just so sad.’

I had written him this letter:

‘ There is really no need to be this unkind. Whether you move on or not is entirely your choice, but please remember I have feelings too and be respectful. I am trying my best to look after our baby, you know deep down why things are like this and that it’s not because I’ve purposefully excluded you. I loved you so much and wanted a family as much as you did. I didn’t choose for any of this to happen.

I’ve given you every opportunity to see our baby, and I don’t see any reason for there to be animosity between us when I know deep down that we do respect and love one another. If you can’t be respectful and I get more threats then I’m going to have no choice but to stop all contact, which I really don’t want to have to do. I am asking you to please think realistically about what you want and what’s best for our child. Surely it isn’t for her parents to be at war with each other.’

But I showed it to a friend today, and she said all she thinks it will achieve is keeping the stress going. As I’ll be anxious about him reading it, anxious however he responds and anxious if it just provokes another drama. She highlighted that I’ve written him 2 letters before, and it hasn’t changed anything as ultimately he just believes his own narrative anyway. She just thinks I need to give up and cut him out of my life as much as I can. She is probably right and there is no point trying to reason with him anymore.

[EyesUp]

But I showed it to a friend today, and she said all she thinks it will achieve is keeping the stress going. As I’ll be anxious about him reading it, anxious however he responds and anxious if it just provokes another drama. She highlighted that I’ve written him 2 letters before, and it hasn’t changed anything as ultimately he just believes his own narrative anyway. She just thinks I need to give up and cut him out of my life as much as I can. She is probably right and there is no point trying to reason with him anymore.

You've got a good, smart friend.

Here's where I landed re: responding to my uBPDxw:

I try to only respond when I feel I need to document something for the court.  So I write with a judge in mind, rather than my X.

e.g., X says "I hate you, you're a narcissist" - I don't respond
X says "you don't provide a, b, or c for the kids" (where a, b, or c is legally required or similar) - I reply, concisely: "I disagree. In fact, I have receipts for a, b, or c.  Sorry for any confusion"

That's about it.  No narratives.  No requests for understanding.  No requests for agreement.  No requests for acknowledgement, or change, or empathy, or fairness - for me, or for the kids.

I accept that my X is the mother of our kids, I wish her well, and I will respond when the kids' interest is involved or when necessary.  However, I've come to accept that it's not necessary or practical or beneficial to try to have some sort of mutually respectful post-D / relationship 2.0. 

I also recognize that anything that involves me likely triggers her worst instincts. She's ashamed and isn't likely to get over it any time soon. My presence / existence is a constant reminder to her that she's made poor choices that cannot be so easily swept under the rug.

I'm sure your situation is different in a many ways, our Xs are not the same people with the same shame / same ego / same trauma... but n/BPD behaviors are remarkably consistent, and it sounds like your X cannot imagine a healthy way to support his child and/or you, on any level.  I would listen carefully to what he's telling you, and focus on what you can change - that's you, not him.  And focus on raising a confident, independent thinker, rather than an enmeshed or trauma-bonded kid with attachment issues.

I often apply advice given to athletes to my recovery from my relationship:
Eat less, train more, start now.

For BPD relationship recovery, it's sort of like the last suggestion I offered:

Think about your X less, think about yourself/your kid more, start now.

e.g., Playground/restuarant/other place reminds you of your X?  Try a new playground/restaurant/other place...

The way you're thinking about things, and the support you're getting from kids is very good.  Keep going.

[livednlearned]

‘ There is really no need to be this unkind. Whether you move on or not is entirely your choice, but please remember I have feelings too and be respectful. I am trying my best to look after our baby, you know deep down why things are like this and that it’s not because I’ve purposefully excluded you. I loved you so much and wanted a family as much as you did. I didn’t choose for any of this to happen.

I’ve given you every opportunity to see our baby, and I don’t see any reason for there to be animosity between us when I know deep down that we do respect and love one another. If you can’t be respectful and I get more threats then I’m going to have no choice but to stop all contact, which I really don’t want to have to do. I am asking you to please think realistically about what you want and what’s best for our child. Surely it isn’t for her parents to be at war with each other.’

What do you think of a message like this:

"I notice it's become too hard for you to interact with me and our baby. When you feel ready to see us, we can try again. I'll respond when you're ready to move ahead with that."

[Purplegiraffe]

I try to only respond when I feel I need to document something for the court.  So I write with a judge in mind, rather than my X.

e.g., X says "I hate you, you're a narcissist" - I don't respond
X says "you don't provide a, b, or c for the kids" (where a, b, or c is legally required or similar) - I reply, concisely: "I disagree. In fact, I have receipts for a, b, or c.  Sorry for any confusion"

That's about it.  No narratives.  No requests for understanding.  No requests for agreement.  No requests for acknowledgement, or change, or empathy, or fairness - for me, or for the kids.

I accept that my X is the mother of our kids, I wish her well, and I will respond when the kids' interest is involved or when necessary.  However, I've come to accept that it's not necessary or practical or beneficial to try to have some sort of mutually respectful post-D / relationship 2.0. 

Thank you, this is sad but ringing true. I had a pretty reasonable message from him a few days back saying he did want to get to a place where we could co parent, whether together or apart. I took it as an opportunity to ask that he please try to keep his future messages kind. I got a terrible response, with so many threats. So from now on I will be just being purely factual.

We are due to meet later in the week so he can see our baby, but after the nature of the past few emails I am thinking of bringing a family member along too.

I don’t even know what he wants at this point. He says he is going to have to take me to court and doesn’t think it’s fair I have said no to taking her on days out for the time being, but also isn’t even asking to see her or planning any days out. I just want to prove first that we can get through one meet up in a public place without him shouting at me in front of our baby before attempting anything else. I am starting to think he is more angry that I’ve said no to him about something than about anything regarding our baby. But similarly to your ex I also think it is the shame/guilt that his behaviours have led to our situation.

[Purplegiraffe]

What do you think of a message like this:

"I notice it's become too hard for you to interact with me and our baby. When you feel ready to see us, we can try again. I'll respond when you're ready to move ahead with that."

That’s a good one. I am going to hold onto that one for if the next planned meeting goes dreadfully.

I don’t know if I am giving too many chances…

[livednlearned]

That’s a good one. I am going to hold onto that one for if the next planned meeting goes dreadfully.

I don’t know if I am giving too many chances…

It's more about how to communicate with someone whose emotional regulation issues make communication all but a minefield.

Your email is lovely for someone with better social-emotional-communication skills who can co-process the end of a relationship.

With your baby's father, he cannot manage his own emotions much less yours. For many of us, we have to process these painful feelings with a professional and then learn to send carefully worded messages that thread a lot of needles. They have to avoid escalating things, for one. And they have to make it clear that the window for tenderness has closed without triggering abandonment.

It's tricky stuff and it gets less tricky over time, though never easy in my experience.

Are you meeting with him soon?

[Purplegiraffe]

It's more about how to communicate with someone whose emotional regulation issues make communication all but a minefield.

Your email is lovely for someone with better social-emotional-communication skills who can co-process the end of a relationship.

With your baby's father, he cannot manage his own emotions much less yours. For many of us, we have to process these painful feelings with a professional and then learn to send carefully worded messages that thread a lot of needles. They have to avoid escalating things, for one. And they have to make it clear that the window for tenderness has closed without triggering abandonment.

It's tricky stuff and it gets less tricky over time, though never easy in my experience.

Are you meeting with him soon?

Yes, I feel like most of my time at the moment is spent constructing the perfectly worded response to him that doesn’t escalate things. Every session with my therapist consists of this. I feel guilty every session for boring her!

It feels wrong to disregard my own feelings but the more I think about it that’s what I ended up doing throughout our relationship anyway. One of the reasons we always came to blows was because I wasn’t ok with it.

My family has said today they really question if it’s a good idea for him to be involved at all with our baby because even without his substance abuse issues, his values and views are so warped. I’ve explained that someone’s values and views aren’t really justification for stopping them from seeing their child.

I’m seeing him at the end of the week yeah.

[Purplegiraffe]

What do you think of a message like this:

"I notice it's become too hard for you to interact with me and our baby. When you feel ready to see us, we can try again. I'll respond when you're ready to move ahead with that."

The other hurdle I’m facing is that since I have been keeping messages more factual, he has started saying I’ve changed from the person he used to know and am now so patronising he can’t bear it.

I don’t know how to handle things when I do see him.

[livednlearned]

With my son's father, and with help from a therapist, I learned to set reasonable and healthy boundaries.

He could earn back custodial time once he was willing to do some of the court-ordered things presented to him, all very reasonable given the behaviors that led there.

Because of the way BPD traits work, he was unwilling to make the effort.

He made the choice himself to not participate. Many people wanted him involved in our son's life, including me, as long as it was safe and showed he could put our son's well-being front and center.

Rather than think of what choices you are making, maybe think of it in terms of what choices he is making or not making to be safe for your baby.

It is an added problem when there is substance abuse. While that may seem like a BPD thing, it is in many ways it's own problem. I have a uBPD stepdaughter who doesn't do drugs and things look very different when BPD traits present. Whereas in my son's father, the substance abuse made his BPD traits all but unmanageable. His filter would go down and the chaos was magnified to a degree he just wasn't safe to be around.

[Purplegiraffe]

With my son's father, and with help from a therapist, I learned to set reasonable and healthy boundaries.

He could earn back custodial time once he was willing to do some of the court-ordered things presented to him, all very reasonable given the behaviors that led there.

Because of the way BPD traits work, he was unwilling to make the effort.

He made the choice himself to not participate. Many people wanted him involved in our son's life, including me, as long as it was safe and showed he could put our son's well-being front and center.

Rather than think of what choices you are making, maybe think of it in terms of what choices he is making or not making to be safe for your baby.

It is an added problem when there is substance abuse. While that may seem like a BPD thing, it is in many ways it's own problem. I have a uBPD stepdaughter who doesn't do drugs and things look very different when BPD traits present. Whereas in my son's father, the substance abuse made his BPD traits all but unmanageable. His filter would go down and the chaos was magnified to a degree he just wasn't safe to be around.

Wow, thank you for sharing. I have been trying to encourage baby’s father towards taking the steps to being safe to be around, but I suspect we are going to have the same outcome.

If you don’t mind me asking, I know he chose not to participate with your son, but do you have any contact with him now? Are you at peace with it all?

I am a bit worried about if I did  in the future meet someone new. I can’t imagine it at the moment as I still love him very much, but I guess that won’t always be the case. My baby’s father has been quite vocal about how he will not be ok with this when it happens. He has violent and impulsive tendencies.

I think you’re right, the substance abuse brings a whole new category of problems. I know a few alcoholics and they all struggle with accountability, so it’s like a double whammy with BPD too. It just means I can never predict what version of him I’m going to be getting.

[livednlearned]

If you don’t mind me asking, I know he chose not to participate with your son, but do you have any contact with him now? Are you at peace with it all?

I don't have contact with him anymore. I'm at peace.

I'm one of those people who was willing to tolerate more than I should've, but I couldn't tolerate seeing the same done to our child.

What often happens in these marriages is that a child becomes symptomatic of the serious problems in the adult-adult relationship. When I sought help from therapists to help understand what was going on, it was clear that our home environment was interfering if not outright preventing our son from coping with life. He was 8 when a psychologist evaluated him as "at-risk."

When I began searching for support to help S8, his father became unhinged. There wasn't really any other direction but out of the relationship, although I did delude myself into thinking that a choice existed. In retrospect, S8 and I were run out of the relationship and the end result was always going to be divorce.

After the court ordered my ex to meet minimum criteria to resume visitation, my ex did nothing to comply and shortly after I was awarded sole custody. There is a lot in that time span that led to me developing a titanium backbone. I will never tolerate someone treating me or someone I love like that again, ever.

During this time my son said to me he wished I had protected him sooner.

So do I.

I can only imagine how hard it is to be in your position because you can't know what the worst thing might be, and same for your son. It is so heart-breaking to see a parent -- any parent -- fail to perform the basic functions of parenting. What's worse though is watching a parent terrorize a child. I'm left feeling at peace as much as anyone can feel that way when there is painful trauma lingering in your child's heart.

My son is now 22 and roughly 5 years ago he decided on his own he won't answer his dad's texts unless there's a genuine attempt to connect, which there never is. His father's texts are often pointing to a FB post of his, usually about food or something that has nothing to do with S22. The last one told S22 he should get cash before the Russian invasion of Ukraine because our bank systems were going to go down. He never says he misses S22 and much of what he says is revisionist history that assumes S22 doesn't remember from his own experiences what happened and how he felt.

A while ago I asked S22 if he wanted to work with a therapist about reaching out to his dad, to say what he might want to say. I've been very candid that I don't really know one way or the other, but that I had been estranged from my father and there did come a time when I got to say what I wanted, even knowing the relationship would not change in any substantive way. For me it was cathartic but that doesn't mean it will be the same for anyone else.

I think what we are afraid of is that our kids will hurt, and they will hurt no matter how much we protect them. What I had to learn is to teach my child even his hardest most difficult feelings are safe -- we can get through them together, and he can learn to get through them on his own. Even the feeling of devastating loss that there's a dad out there who can't function as a parent.

It's been over 10 years since we left and S22 is glad we left, even if the base pain is loss.

Our job is to keep our kid's safe and sadly sometimes we can't do that when a parent has substance abuse issues, anger issues, impulsivity issues, mental illness. It's a lot for us to manage much less our kids.

Whatever you decide to do at some point it will probably be pretty obvious that this situation has a foregone conclusion. I encourage you to learn everything you can about the communication and relationship skills we learn here -- they will help contain the destruction and a huge silver lining is that they will go an unbelievably long way in helping your child cope and manage. There is definitely grief in these relationships, and if you are open and willing to learn, there is tremendous resilience and strength and growth that follows too.

 

[Purplegiraffe]

I'm one of those people who was willing to tolerate more than I should've, but I couldn't tolerate seeing the same done to our child.

I'm also one of these people!

After the court ordered my ex to meet minimum criteria to resume visitation, my ex did nothing to comply and shortly after I was awarded sole custody. There is a lot in that time span that led to me developing a titanium backbone. I will never tolerate someone treating me or someone I love like that again, ever.

Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. It definitely helps me get an idea of the direction my situation is probably heading. This is kind of the struggle I'm currently facing - social services have said they will start to have more involvement if my baby's Dad gets any worse (we'll have an assessment, social workers will have to be present for meetings, meetings will have to happen in a contact centre, etc). But they've said if he can start engaging with services for his substance abuse and BPD behaviours and starts committing to the boundaries they've encouraged me to set (meeting regularly in a public place) then this would change. I've conveyed all of this to him, but he a) thinks I am lying and b) is trying to imply I am restricting his involvement with our baby by setting these boundaries, rather than encouraging it. 

I'm quite frustrated that I am just in the middle and SS won't contact him directly. Also having to explain the situation to his family is hard - I think they probably wish I would hide elements of it from SS to remove some of these restrictions but I'm not going to do that.

He says he is sick of my 'demands' and keeps saying he is going to take me to court. He doesn't seem to realise that all that will happen if he goes to court to push for visitation is that they are going to give him their own 'demands'. I wish he could see that I am trying to help him, not hurt him.

My therapist pointed out that it would be so different if in between the times he was seeing our baby, he was showing an active interest in her. Asking for updates on how she is, asking if he can come and see her, leaving a bag of supplies, etc. But I think because he is not in complete control of the situation, he almost can't bear to be involved in it at all. This makes it seem like I am the big baddie and am not letting him be involved with his baby, when really it isn't like that at all.

When I see him, I am going to attempt to say that I know it's extremely unlikely we will ever get our 'perfect' happy ending (being a family). But it doesn't mean there can't be a new version of a happy ending - one where he is still involved with our child. If he keeps going like he is, there is just going to be a disastrous ending where he isn't involved at all. He must try to understand it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I know that a lot of his behaviour is projection and coming from the fear or not being involved at all, which has happened to him before. But I also know this is down to him to manage - it's out of my control and entirely down to him. I hope by working with his counsellor he might one day realise this.

My son is now 22 and roughly 5 years ago he decided on his own he won't answer his dad's texts unless there's a genuine attempt to connect, which there never is. His father's texts are often pointing to a FB post of his, usually about food or something that has nothing to do with S22. The last one told S22 he should get cash before the Russian invasion of Ukraine because our bank systems were going to go down. He never says he misses S22 and much of what he says is revisionist history that assumes S22 doesn't remember from his own experiences what happened and how he felt.

God - he sounds remarkably similar to my baby's father. The paranoia, suspicion of authority and rewriting of history.

I think what we are afraid of is that our kids will hurt, and they will hurt no matter how much we protect them. What I had to learn is to teach my child even his hardest most difficult feelings are safe -- we can get through them together, and he can learn to get through them on his own. Even the feeling of devastating loss that there's a dad out there who can't function as a parent.

Great advice that I will remember.

Whatever you decide to do at some point it will probably be pretty obvious that this situation has a foregone conclusion. I encourage you to learn everything you can about the communication and relationship skills we learn here -- they will help contain the destruction and a huge silver lining is that they will go an unbelievably long way in helping your child cope and manage. There is definitely grief in these relationships, and if you are open and willing to learn, there is tremendous resilience and strength and growth that follows too.

Thank you. I feel I'm living in a parallel at the moment, trying to manage this situation but also focus on bettering my own life to be able to provide for my daughter. I'm going to be retraining come September, and just can't imagine having the mental strength to be able to do that with this going on in the background. But I am going to have to muster it somehow.

 


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[Purplegiraffe]

Posting again as I am just so stressed. Have managed 1 successful meet up with baby’s father since I last posted.

It was short but went sort of ok. He was emotional, quite open about his feelings and not confrontational. Very good with our baby. So I tried to organise more regular meet ups as I’d had a few nasty emails from him prior to the meeting about how I wasn’t letting him see her enough. I thought as it went well it meant we could edge forward.

Got another nasty email before we were due to meet, and he’s now said he doesn’t want to meet again until things are sorted with court.

I haven’t replied as everyone has advised me they’re just empty threats. Up until this point I haven’t logged anything with the police. I’ve sought legal advice with a lawyer who said just to ignore all the emails. I am just waiting until he next asks to see baby, if he does.

I just want all of this to end. My baby is so young and I feel like I am missing out on enjoying these precious moments with her because of all of this.

[EyesUp]

@Purplegiraffe,

You're feeling conflicted - which is totally to be expected in circumstances like this. A lot of moving parts. There's an emotional instinct to respond, engage - and then there's a rational impulse to be more reserved, listen to advice, focus on your kid...

You're certainly in the right place - posting on the "conflicted" board.

All that said, how about a thought experiment?  You don't need to start a new thread, but consider reading on the "detaching" board if you haven't already.  Also consider reviewing the lessons re: detaching.  The idea isn't to suggest that you should detach - only you can make that decision.  However, reviewing the lessons and other's experiences might offer some insight, and might also provide some focus.

I will say this as a parent of three kids:  Sometimes there is no insulating them - from bad teachers, bullies, mean friends, or even disordered family members...  the best we can do is use the time we've got to teach them how to deal with all of it as best we can. 

So while I wouldn't wish what you're going through on anyone, maybe there's a way to reframe it so that you feel like you're gaining something in this process - strength? focus? resilience?  vs. losing time.  As the saying goes, pain is weakness escaping from the body...

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0