Am I Wrong for Wanting to Leave?

[RPR24]

After another meltdown from my undiagnosed H and what I believe is a splitting episode, silent treatment and his avoiding me, am I wrong to want to leave?

I know it’s not his fault if he has BPD but I can’t take it anymore. He hasn’t gotten any help with his issues and I’m mentally and emotionally depleted.

[DigitalSanity]

You're not wrong for wanting to leave. It's not his fault to have BPD, but it's not your fault either.

Although it's not exactly a fair comparison, it's not someone's fault if they have diabetes, but they have a choice over eating healthy, taking insulin and so on. And if you live with a diabetic, you can help by having healthy food at home, remind (or even help) them with their insulin etc, but you can't force them into doing it: it's their choice. It also wouldn't be fair for you to take on their diet just to help them, especially if they eat sugar when you're away... I'm sure you get my point.

[livednlearned]

Any thoughts on what led to the splitting episode?

It's understandable how you feel. Being in an untreated BPD relationship takes a toll, and the silent treatment can feel like being erased, a truly painful experience. That you would want to protect yourself from feeling that way makes a lot of sense.

When he splits and goes through a silent treatment cycle, do you have a plan to take care of yourself? The question of wanting to leave or figuring out a way to leave is a big one that can make us feel overwhelmed. Would you find any relief in using the silent treatments as a time to do something for yourself? You can always revisit the question of whether to stay or go when things return to baseline if that helps.

He has a maladaptive way to get himself regulated. Maybe there is a healthy way for you to do something similar in response to his emotional injury. I know it's hard when you have kids, especially kids with special needs. You might need to prioritize yourself during these episodes so you can be ok for your kids. I know it's hard and there are no easy answers. If you're not accustomed to taking care of yourself there are often a thousand different ways to feel your needs don't matter when obviously they matter just as much as anyone else in the family.

You're the emotional leader in the family. Someone has to care about you and it may as well be you  

[RPR24]

Any thoughts on what led to the splitting episode?

He came home from work and saw that the dishes in the dishwasher hadn’t been put away. He asked me if I had worked that day and I said no. He got up and started emptying the dishwasher and I tried to tell him something and he just ignored me. If he had asked me about the dishwasher I would have told him that I had already emptied it in the morning and stacked it again and put it on.i had also just got back from taking my daughter to an appointment. After the dishwasher he went and laid down without saying anything until dinner arrived.. He wanted to watch a movie with the kids while they ate. He asked my son a question and my son replied he was getting his food and that’s when H snapped, said he was ‘just f@cking asking where son wanted to sit’ and it all went downhill from there.

It’s the after behaviour that truly gets me more than the silent treatment. The switch back to normal, being nice and overly helpful and just expecting the rest of us to act like nothing happened either! I cannot be normal to him after these episodes and each time my resentment towards him builds. I feel like I’m about to explode with all this pent up again and resentment towards him.

I know I am too far gone emotionally and mentally to fix the marriage now. He’s had too many chances with us and he just seems to feel so entitled to act however he likes without any thought for the rest of us.

[Pook075]

I know I am too far gone emotionally and mentally to fix the marriage now. He’s had too many chances with us and he just seems to feel so entitled to act however he likes without any thought for the rest of us.

Are you wrong for wanting to leave?  No.  Is that the right choice for your family though?  That's a very different question.

With BPD, there are steps you can take before the blowouts occur to minimize them or avoid them completely.  In a perfect world, he'd take those steps and self-regulate, but until he takes it seriously then it's not going to happen.  For now, it must be you taking those steps to help him stay regulated. 

For instance, the dishwasher thing...it seems unavoidable at first glance.  How could you anticipate that?  But if you know cleanliness and taking responsibility around the house is a quirk of his, you could text him early in the day telling him your plans, or have that conversation before he even leaves the house.  Or maybe have that convo the night before.  It all comes down to better communication and understanding to avoid those moments.

What you do moving forward is completely up to you.  But this can get better if you want it to.  Just let us know how we can help.

[livednlearned]

I feel like I’m about to explode with all this pent up again and resentment towards him.

This seems like the important piece here.

Have you read this article about the four stages of relationship breakdown?

It may be quite challenging to decide whether it's right or wrong to leave when you're experiencing the chronicity of these painful end stages.

Do you have a therapist to help you process these emotions with? It's a lot to carry on your own shoulders although this site can be a validating place to express things you might otherwise not feel safe to.

[ForeverDad]

We have an entire board here focused on communication tips.
Tools and Skills workshops

However, improving our own communication skills so that your spouse may be less likely to behave poorly as much doesn't fix the core issue you've mentioned.

Your spouse has to make some effort too.  That's where we have to admit that we very likely can't "fix" the other person.  We can't make them behave better or more considerately.  They would have to put some effort into it.  It's like having a leaky sink drain.  Emptying buckets under the drain doesn't fix the leak, it still leaks.

So, will improved communication skills, even if only by you, help sufficiently?  Would he be open to counseling?  (As in a plumber repairing a leaky drain.)  Or would you still be feeling that need to leave?

[RPR24]

I don’t have a therapist but I’m going to contact some organisations today who offer free counselling for women in domestic abuse situations. Whether he has BPD or not, I believe I am in a cycle of abuse with him. Yesterday he came home with flowers for me. He knows he did wrong. Just like he knew he was wrong at Christmas when he lost it over something minor. And the time he threw clothes on the floor in anger and stormed off shouting at us. And all the times before that. He knows he has a problem, but he won’t do anything about it. He just feels entitled to act however he wants and expects the rest of us to just accept it. I raise my voice slightly and he says ‘don’t yell at me!’ He will have a meltdown over something that he is also guilty of doing. It’s do as I say, not as I do. He knows but he chooses not to get help.

We  have a child with an aquired brain injury who requires ongoing weekly therapies. And two younger children as well who need me. One of them is in therapy for anxiety. She puts her hands on her ears if her dad even raises his voice a little.

I work part time but it’s shift work. I love my job and the people I work with. It’s a place of normality for me to escape to. It’s tiring due to the early start times but I don’t want to give that up. It’s good for my mental health.

I carry the mental load for the family and I just don’t have anymore capacity to deal with his issues. To worry that he is going to have a meltdown if the dishwasher isn’t emptied. Or he is going to lose it over some clothes being on the couch (he was annoyed because he wanted to lay down there, not because it made the house messy). To ask a simple question and then feel drained afterwards because he turns it into a big deal and he gets frustrated. To be told ‘don’t blame me’ over something I wasn’t even thinking of blaming him for.

I cannot bear him touching me anymore. I cringe when he calls me hun. He talks about the future and I feel depressed. This is no way to live. And frankly I’m tired of putting everyone else’s needs before my own. I know that’s selfish, but I’ve been doing that for 20 + years and it’s destroying me. I love my children more than anything else. That’s where my energy is focused. I have no more capacity to deal with H’s distorted ways.

@livednlearned - I haven’t read that article but will do so today.

[Gerda]

I agree that you should get a therapist if you possibly can. I found one that takes my health insurance so it's not very expensive. If you don't have insurance coverage there are sometimes nonprofits or universities that have sliding-scale or even free counseling. (I have my daughter in play therapy now for free through our local university. Her play therapist is a graduate student there working on his credentials.)

Also, since the pandemic lots of therapists do their sessions through telehealth now, which I think is great because of the flexibility. I've been doing sessions over my phone sitting in my car in the parking lot at work during my lunch break.

I have also read a lot of books about BPD and found them helpful. I think my favorites are by Margalis Fjelstad: Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, and Raising Resilient Children with a Borderline or Narcissist. I really like her writing style. Stop Walking on Eggshells was also helpful, as was Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft (which isn't about BPD specifically, but about being a woman with an abusive male romantic partner).

Most of these books don't really take a side on whether to stay or leave (except for Bancroft), and instead give you strategies on how to cope whether your stay or leave. Since you have kids together, even if you do divorce, you'll still have to deal with him in order to co-parent.

As for whether you are wrong for wanting to leave, I would say no. There's a saying a therapist on YouTube has that I thought was helpful when it comes to mental illness and trauma. "It's not your fault but it is your responsibility." It's not your husband's fault that he has BPD, but it is HIS responsibility. Not yours.

According to Margalis Fjelstad, a lot of people who get into relationships with people who have BPD have a "caretaking" personality where we try to fix everyone else's problems. People with BPD like that because they believe that it's other people's responsibility to fix their problems. So a lot of the psychological work we have to do is get out of that caretaker mindset. You should do that whether you decide to stay or leave, because caretaking a grown man who should be able to take care of himself is what's exhausting you. You need that energy for your children instead (because unlike grown men, children really do need caretakers).

[The Wind]

You're definitely not wrong for wanting to leave.

If you do reach that decision though, you really need to think it through, think about all the possible the consequences, and plan for those scenarios practically and emotionally. It needs to be a very careful thought out choice and not one that is driven by emotions.

I wanted to leave my wife after an 18 year relationship, I just couldn't do it any longer and I finally did,  I finally said enough.

We have two children together, and the consequences of leaving has not been easy, I don't regret leaving the abusive relationship, It was the right thing for me to do, but I do regret not planning it better.

If you do get to that point, pick the brains of people like myself, who have left, who encountered new lows with their partners, parental alienation, anger, deception and manipulation go to new extremes, and your children, your relationship and your time with your children hang in the balance.

[RPR24]

I have to leave. I can’t cope anymore. I’ve barely spoken to him since his meltdown last Friday. I know he’s realising he’s finally crossed the line this time. He’s trying to manipulate me into forgiving him but I can’t, I just can’t.

I keep having flashbacks of all the abuse I’ve endured over the years. I feel tense if he’s in the same room. I can’t even pretend to care anymore.

[ForeverDad]

We understand.  We've "been there, done that".

And this is precisely how your Boundaries should work.  One typical pattern is that people with BPD (pwBPD) resist boundaries.  That's why we need to set boundaries for ourselves so we can respond/react appropriately to boundary violations.

Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits

[RPR24]

So how do you act normal? I can’t. And he’s noticing. The manipulation is there. ‘You organise it and if you want me to come…’ I just replied I think the whole family should go.
Lasy night I mentioned my daughter and I were going to a festival this afternoon with a friend and her daughter. ‘ I would have liked to have gone too….’ despite me barely speaking to him since the last episode. It’s subtle but I’m recognising it and I know it will ramp up the more I am distant.
Once again no thought that his behaviour is the cause. He bought flowers, I should be grateful and forgiving.

[ForeverDad]

I should be grateful and forgiving.

If only.  If only the {whatever} wasn't repeated over the days and years.  If only he would make an effort not to do it over and over, at least that would be some sort of consolation.

Perhaps it's not forgiving that you're fretting about?  Could it be that Letting Go isn't working any more?

[RPR24]

I think I know deep down I’ve reached the end, and I’m trying to process the that while thinking about logistics of separating.

[RPR24]

I wish he would stop acting so nice towards me! I know it’s manipulation and I hate it.

[ForeverDad]

Many pwBPD (and other acting-out PDs) are master manipulators, they've had decades to hone those skills.  Likely he senses a change in you, feels you drifting away and likely is trying to draw you back.

Do you understand that he's not totally clueless about his behaviors?  At some level, whether subconsciously or not, he knows how to keep you engaged.  However, you are no longer clueless, that was the past and this is now.  Your brain knows this now, have your emotions caught up yet?

[RPR24]

Do you understand that he's not totally clueless about his behaviors?  At some level, whether subconsciously or not, he knows how to keep you engaged.  However, you are no longer clueless, that was the past and this is now.  Your brain knows this now, have your emotions caught up yet?

Do you understand that he's not totally clueless about his behaviors?  At some level, whether subconsciously or not, he knows how to keep you engaged.  However, you are no longer clueless, that was the past and this is now.  Your brain knows this now, have your emotions caught up yet?

That’s where I get confused, because I have read elsewhere that they tend to black out and don’t remember their rages, or at least the intensity of them.

My emotions are catching up. I’ve gone from feeling like I am trapped forever to realising I can’t live like this anymore and looking for a way out.. Have to admit I’m terrified though, I know how he react to me leaving and that scares the hell out of me.

[livednlearned]

I see it less as manipulation and more as instinctive behavior. Like a crude coping skill to get needs met. If his self is barely differentiated and feelings equal facts, then all behaviors are justified because the feelings are true. Therefore his behavior is warranted.

There may be conscious manipulation mixed in but if it's textbook splitting he may simply switch from one perspective (you = all good) to another (you = all bad) without recognizing there's another way to perceive you.

Some pwBPD seem to experience black outs following a level 10 rage but that is an explanation not an excuse.

It seems your husband finds it perfectly normal and even acceptable to unload his emotions without consequence. All he has to do if you mention his behavior is to dial it back up. He bumps into a spoken expression of discontent and silences it. There is no real boundary to his behavior that he encounters. Is that accurate to say?

[RPR24]

It seems your husband finds it perfectly normal and even acceptable to unload his emotions without consequence. All he has to do if you mention his behavior is to dial it back up. He bumps into a spoken expression of discontent and silences it. There is no real boundary to his behavior that he encounters. Is that accurate to say?

It seems your husband finds it perfectly normal and even acceptable to unload his emotions without consequence. All he has to do if you mention his behavior is to dial it back up. He bumps into a spoken expression of discontent and silences it. There is no real boundary to his behavior that he encounters. Is that accurate to say?

Yes, that’s what it seems like. It’s never his fault according to him so I’ve given up trying to talk about.

He is working from home today, which he rarely does on a Monday. He is being super helpful and nice.. I’m trying to keep my distance but still be polite and it’s exhausting me.
He either realises I’m getting to the point of no return, or he is truly unaware just how detrimental his behaviour is to our marriage.

I was so looking forward to being able to relax and feel comfortable at home today and now I can’t because he is here. 
He won’t, or can’t, see our marriage for what it is. We don’t even sleep in the same room anymore and there’s been no physical relationship for 3 years.  I don’t touch him, I don’t say I love him.  How can he want to live like this for the rest of his life?
I don’t get it.

[RPR24]

Yes, that’s what it seems like. It’s never his fault according to him so I’ve given up trying to talk about.

He is working from home today, which he rarely does on a Monday. He is being super helpful and nice.. I’m trying to keep my distance but still be polite and it’s exhausting me.
He either realises I’m getting to the point of no return, or he is truly unaware just how detrimental his behaviour is to our marriage.

I was so looking forward to being able to relax and feel comfortable at home today and now I can’t because he is here. 
He won’t, or can’t, see our marriage for what it is. We don’t even sleep in the same room anymore and there’s been no physical relationship for 3 years.  I don’t touch him, I don’t say I love him.  How can he want to live like this for the rest of his life?
I don’t get it.
[/quote]

[RPR24]

Sorry, I posted twice for some reason.

[yellowbutterfly]

I forgot how to quote part of the thread but THIS statement stood out to me.

"He is being super helpful and nice"

THIS is the cycle of abuse and a relationship with a person with BPD. It almost doesn't matter if he is aware or not, it's like a roller coaster. Personally, I had to get out before he or it killed me. 

and

"I’m trying to keep my distance but still be polite and it’s exhausting me."

I wanted to validate you as I felt so much like this toward the end of my relationship. It's exhausting! On that note, how are you supporting yourself mentally/self-care after earlier when he unexpectedly was WFH?

[RPR24]

Thank you yellow butterfly for understanding how I feel.

I’ve kept myself busy with housework, popped out to the shops and had a nap.

[livednlearned]

RPR24, have you read Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That?"

Someone posted it on the site recently and I can't remember if it was you -- if not, and you haven't read the book, it might be exactly what you need at this point in your life.

Bancroft worked with angry, controlling men who were court-ordered to enroll in anger management classes. He saw patterns in the way these men abuse their partners, and then he used those patterns to help women understand how we are purposefully confused by their actions.

Mental illness is an explanation not an excuse. Sometimes it helps to look at what the relationship moves are that keep us from seeing the whole picture.

[RPR24]

RPR24, have you read Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That?"

RPR24, have you read Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That?"

I’ve heard of it but not read it yet.
Today was hard, after feeling positive I would find a way out recently, I’ve come crashing down feeling so overwhelmed and feeling hopeless.  I know I keep repeating myself, but the fact he does not want to see what a complete shambles our marriage is just makes me want to scream.

[yellowbutterfly]

RR

I often felt so hopeless and overwhelmed both when trying to leave and then after. He probably will never see or be able to admit the state of your marriage because that would imply he's responsible for his behavior. The best thing you can do is keep making plans to support your needs (which sound like working to get out) and keep yourself safe.

You are strong!