How do you do...IT?

[Needacompass]

Hello,
My story: (I apologize for the length)
I am 52yo my W/SO is 44yo.  My SO and I have been married 24-years last month, and been together over 28-years. For reference my W/SO has a history of being a foster child due to severe childhood abuse and trauma.  Our marriage has been sprinkled with her having depression, chronic body dysmorphia, postpartum depression and at least one suicidal attempt. All attempts at [almost all] medications failed.  For the past 7-years she’s taken Concerta for a diagnosis of ADHD. We have two amazing children; a 16yo son and 12yo daughter. Our son also has ADHD and takes Concerta.

In the past 5-years I have had a protection order placed on me by my SO, resulting in my removal from the home, with accusations of child abuse on our son. She eventually dropped the PO and then after things had finally escalated to a temporary D decree, she contacted me and invited me back into the home. Subsequently, the D was dropped completely. 

Since this time things have been nothing short of an ongoing rollercoaster ride of mood swings, fits of rage, blame, reliving past mistakes and various other methods of emasculation…All the things.
Earlier this year, she discovered that I had been 'hiding money' from her in an account that she had known about for some time. After this ‘discovery’ she decided it was time for me to get my 'stuff' straight. She insisted that all our issues were because of my past and present inadequacies. She then issued me an ultimatum to go see our previous MC (whom we had seen together, after I returned to the home from the previously canceled D) and figure my things out. She would give me 6-months or I would be helping her and the kids move out. I accepted by her request and went to the MC.
I began by re-acquainting myself with the MC, explaining how things had been going since we had last met. I described our household’s seemingly constant emotional rollercoaster. My SO’s episodes of rage, over seemingly minuscule issues. During most of these episodes, I had walked away from her, and on at two occasions I had left the house and slept in my truck until the next morning because I didn't feel comfortable returning to her rage, risking worsening the events for myself or the kids.

I explained my defense mechanism of choice was to freeze & stare, stonewall. When the episodes become violent, I would simply leave the premises. When my SO is upset at me, she will call me “a pathetic little man-boy, a coward, and/or a narcissist” or any number of other emasculating things.  Any of these events are always my fault because I "won’t talk” or communicate with her... or if I do try to discuss things I am "being defensive."  And when I do stand up to her and tell her I don't feel her actions are loving actions, it somehow gets turned around on me, with her insisting that I am the problem and I need to find help. My SO is wizard with her words, and a master at creating a reality in which I feel like I actually feel I am in the wrong.  I am frequently told that I am destined to live a life where I am alone and unlovable.
I recalled to him our most recent incident, in which I was awoken in my bedroom (we sleep in separate bedrooms) at 2am. My SO was drunk, screaming at me. She began tearing pictures off the wall, slamming them to the ground, pushing everything off of my dresser to the floor, throwing things across my room, and pushing me. She ordered me to leave, then blocked the door when I tried. I retreated to my bed and sat on my hands. During all of this, my daughter stood between my SO and me. She ended the standoff and retreated with the kids to her bedroom. Later the next day, she, like many other times before this, sobbingly professed to me how she never wants me to leave the family and how, as I was her only family in the world…If I would just get my stuff straight, things could be better…  This eruption occurred because I changed my social media status earlier in the week.
The MC slowly began to remember my wife and me from our previous MC sessions, more specifically my wife. He eventually would explain that he didn't feel that I was the problem. He felt that my SO may have BPD. He asked that I somehow make the request that my SO also come to see him, so that he may further confirm his assertion. He told me that he would continue to see me, provide support, offer me an objective ear and provide me with tools to help me during her outbursts.

A week later, with some demanding of my own; she reluctantly went to see the MC. It’s reported that she spent the better part of 2.5 hours unloading, and I was told at her usual extreme decibel levels, thus verifying his theory. The last 10-minutes of their visit she was calm.  Reportedly, she was able to tell the MC exactly what she needed to work on. Her emotional impulsiveness, her raging, she was able to explain almost perfectly what she needed to change to improve.  The MC said he told her if she wanted to be loved, to be lovable. If she wanted to be respected, to be respectful.  He then left it up to her to make the changes she needed to make and return as needed.

The weekend to follow her session with the MC, things were calm and peaceful. We went out had coffee and were running errands together. We discussed plans for a family camping trip, and the possibility of my mom flying out for a visit this summer.

Then, less than a week after her appointment with the MC, my SO and I were out shopping and she asked me to pull into a local park. And she began into a spitting anger filled fit about how my family will never be allowed into our house. How much I enable them to dislike her and our children. She went on to state how she was creating a boundary that none of my family would ever be allowed into our home and that I was never to spend any of our hard earned money to go visit them, ever. After the confrontation, I went home mentally exhausted and booked my next visit with the MC.
This past week I had that visit with the MC. After explaining the event at the park, he looked me in the eye and with a very serious tone explained to me that my wife has a very serious mental condition and it’s very likely she won’t change. He told me it’s become apparent that I fall to easily into the roll of co-dependent.  He expressed concern for how things must go down in the very near future.  He feels that the only possibility she may change is for me to sit down with her while things are calm and state a very firm ultimatum that if she cannot control her emotions and anger, I will be leaving to live separately, possibly for good. He acknowledged his concern for the repercussions that could follow this conversation and told me to have a Plan B living arrangement at the ready should things go south.

I am just tired.  I often catch myself dreaming of peace for myself and my children.

This finally brings me to my question…Can any of you tell me how you ever managed to have the conversation with your SO, that you wanted out?  It must have been difficult.

Right now, things are okay…The co-dependent in me really doesn’t want to rock the boat. Any support, wisdom and/or encouragement is widely accepted.

Thank you in advance!

[ForeverDad]

  Thank you for posting.  You life has certainly been on a roller coaster.  We can empathize, we too have "been there, done that".  You will find that we have a collective store of experience, wisdom and strategies that have been accumulated overtime.

You can browse other threads too to see how their problems were handled, even if "solutions" were limited.

Our marriage has been sprinkled with her having depression, chronic body dysmorphia, postpartum depression and at least one suicidal attempt. All attempts at [almost all] medications failed.

Borderline is not like Bipolar, though the behaviors can be similar.  Bipolar is generally considered a chemical imbalance which drugs can treat.  However, while drugs may moderate some Borderline behaviors, the best approach is intensive therapy diligently applied over years.

The problem is twofold.  First, your efforts over the years have probably failed because of your close relationship.  Your spouse can't listen because there's so much past emotional baggage of the relationship that she can't or won't ignore.  Second, while therapy with an experienced therapist would be great, many people with BPD (pwBPD) cannot get past the Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting.  Add to that the emotional roller coaster where perceptions of you alternate between being good versus evil, well, no wonder you life has suffered as it has.

In the past 5-years I have had a protection order placed on me by my SO, resulting in my removal from the home, with accusations of child abuse on our son. She eventually dropped the PO and then after things had finally escalated to a temporary D decree, she contacted me and invited me back into the home. Subsequently, the D was dropped completely.

Since this time things have been nothing short of an ongoing roller coaster ride of mood swings, fits of rage, blame, reliving past mistakes and various other methods of emasculation…

How did this PO get dropped did she just quietly withdraw it or did she state in writing that her allegations were false?

I ask because what if she made allegations again, whether similar or different?  Sadly, women and mothers get a lot of default credibility just because they're women or mothers.  You don't want to get stuck playing defense yet again.

I explained my defense mechanism of choice was to freeze & stare, stonewall. When the episodes become violent, I would simply leave the premises. When my SO is upset at me, she will call me “a pathetic little man-boy, a coward, and/or a narcissist” or any number of other emasculating things.

I read somewhere that there can be four or more responses to stressful encounters:
Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn, Flag, Faint.

Toward the end of my marriage my now-ex too said the most horrifying emasculating things.  Then within months it escalated to the point that I called emergency services and the police responded.  Even though I was holding my quietly sobbing preschooler (who was clinging to me and would not go to his mother) they tried to separate me so I could "step away".  Months later my new lawyer was puzzled that they didn't cart me off, that's a typical way to stop a domestic dispute.  Fortunately I had a recording of the events that day so I was never arrested, though that didn't stop her from filing a series of increasingly scary but "unsubstantiated" allegations.

This past week I had that visit with the MC. After explaining the event at the park, he looked me in the eye and with a very serious tone explained to me that my wife has a very serious mental condition and it’s very likely she won’t change. He told me it’s become apparent that I fall to easily into the roll of co-dependent.  He expressed concern for how things must go down in the very near future.  He feels that the only possibility she may change is for me to sit down with her while things are calm and state a very firm ultimatum that if she cannot control her emotions and anger, I will be leaving to live separately, possibly for good. He acknowledged his concern for the repercussions that could follow this conversation and told me to have a Plan B living arrangement at the ready should things go south.

This finally brings me to my question…Can any of you tell me how you ever managed to have the conversation with your SO, that you wanted out?  It must have been difficult.

First and foremost, such a clear but calm and reasoned approach could trigger her to overreact.  Could you do it in the MC's office?  Even that is fraught with danger, because she could really let loose on you once you leave and are in a private scenario, either in the car when leaving or at home where even the kids stepping in may not calm her.

By the way, kids don't want to get in the middle of adult issues.

You ought to get you ducks in a row, so to speak.  You've played defense thus far, and as you know from competitive games, that's not a winning strategy.  Make sure your lawyer is ready with papers to file, both for a divorce and your own protection order for yourself and possibly the children too.

And sometimes we have to (quietly, without creating an incident) record ourselves to document we were not the ones behaving aggressively.  Oops, if the spouse is ranting and raging, well, that's real life.

[RPR24]

I tried a couple of years ago and was told he would ‘die alone’ if we separated. So I didn’t leave.

I’m at breaking point now and in my eyes the issues are irreconcilable. He can’t or doesn’t want to see that.

I haven’t said anything because I’m too scared, but I’ve got an appointment with a lawyer soon to see what my options are regarding the house.

Sorry you are dealing with this too.

[EyesUp]

Somewhat oddly, I "did it" - ended it - the same way I got into it:  avoidance.

By the time it became clear that my now-ex was disordered, there had been two 911 calls (one from our MC, one from me about a month later), and my uBPDxw's resentment was boiling over. I understood the situation was not sustainable, but had sought every possible avenue to recover the marriage / avoid divorce, and finally understood / accepted the situation: We were not going to change for the better.  

On some level, I understood D was likely - even if it wasn't my choice. After all, she repeatedly made threats to divorce. Why continue to tolerate that sort of threat in a marriage?

So, I did my diligence. I interviewed attys - for months - until I found one I aligned with who demonstrated real insight into how to manage a high conflict case.  Note: you want a litigator, not a negotiator.  When making calls, don't ask for a consultation - some will charge for this.  Instead, say that you're interviewing attys to see who has the right experience.  The first :30 mins are usually free.

You can look up questions to ask online, or in many books on divorce.  But the key points for me were: Do you know the judges in my county?  How do they typically rule in cases like mine? How do you shut down "sideshows" with false accusations or irrelevant claims and stay focused on alimony/child support/division of assets/parenting time (as a dad, I never use the term "visitation" - it's antiquated and implies that one parent has a greater claim to the kids' time than the other).  

Read, read, read. Read divorce books for men. Read books for dads. Then read the books for women and moms (eye opening!). And then read the books for kids. And then, if you're still spinning, read the divorce books for people. Read the books on high conflict divorce, like Splitting. Glad to provide a few suggestions if helpful.

If you don't want these books in your Amazon purchase history, or hard copies lying around the house, consider a subscription to Scribd or similar, and read on a phone, or better - a tablet.

While I was doing all this, the situation continued to escalate.

When I finally decided to file, I wasn't sure when the complaint would be received or when my then-wife would be served.  I also wasn't sure exactly how she'd respond.  I had already made sure that certain documents and a few family keepsakes were in safe keeping in a file box in a family member's basement, and I had a go bag in the trunk of my car.  

Through all of this there was still some intimacy - trauma bond?  But when I filed, it had to stop. We were still sharing a bed while I waited for word from my atty.  At this point, my then-wife, perceiving some change (rejection), filed her own complaint. She accused me of emotional abuse for withholding intimacy. Never mind the emotional abuse I endured from endless rages from any perceived slight.

My complaint was filed via mail, complete with all necessary documents, disclosures, statements - I had worked closely with my atty and done all the prep.  My uBPDxw's complaint was filed electronically without any supporting documents.  Nonetheless, her complaint was received first, and I was served. I never told her that I filed first.

Some make a big deal about filing first. In my state, filing status determines who gets to speak last - if you go to trial. Perhaps there's also a psychological advantage in some cases?  

After filing, my X stated more than once that she hoped that filing would "make me wake up" and so she still found a way to perceive some rejection because I did not continue to attempt to negotiate or argue or justify or defend or explain.  I just accepted it.

My advice to others is to carefully consider if you're in a pattern of codependency, avoidance, or other unhealthy cycle that's influencing how you're processing a critical decision to stay or go. If that's the case, work on it with an individual T, and post here.

In my case, I knew that mutual resentments and other issues were unrepairable/recoverable, and started to take steps, accordingly. It turns out that one change in my behavior (not initiating or responding to overtures for sex) was enough to motivate my uBPDxw to also take action. I've come to view this as a "best I could get" kind of mutual understanding that we were both ready.

Back to you:
What do you feel would give you more confidence or conviction about your decision?
Have you started to read, or interview attys?
Do you know anyone else who has been through this who you can talk to you?
When posting here, are you seeking practical tips or emotional support? Maybe a bit of both?

Let us know how we can support you.

[ForeverDad]

Just because you have been together many years, that is no basis to feel you don't deserve a level of privacy and confidentiality.  That applies especially if you have individual counseling and when you discuss your options and strategies with family law attorneys (lawyers or solicitors).

The core perspective is that when you're seeking to repair a damaged relationship then yes you do share information since your goal is to rebuild Trust.  On the other hand, if/when you have concluded the relationship cannot continue then you shift to a different set of priorities, you share only required information such as necessary financial matters and parenting details of their health, exchange information, etc.

Yes, approaching and within that transition period, you will still have a lot of contact but that does not Gift your partner the right to demand you divulge such information such as during interrogations extending far into the wee hours of the night.  (Yes, been there and done that too.)

[Needacompass]

Thank you for the responses. I am still maneuvering through this process.  While my ubpdW seems to display all of the traits of BPD (severe at times), and our past few years have been difficult, I have to wonder if the most recent (Past 2-3 months) outburst were not an acute response to recent life stresses. 

My wife is very high functioning, and works in a very stressful time sensitive accounting job. Since January, she 'discovered' my account, which triggered abandonment/trust issues,  our daughter began her period (A trigger for my wife who was sexually abused even more after reaching puberty), my wife's mentor and close friend at work passed away suddenly. This caused a domino of events at her job; she wasn't really given time to grieve as the company basically just dumped her friend's accounts in her lap, expecting her to complete them before a deadline. She was working 16-hour days for almost 3-weeks straight. She works from home so there are frequent interruptions after school is out and the kids are home.  It was just a lot all at once, IMO.  I don't know if this is a justification or just co-dependent thought processes or both?

Most recently my MC/T has suggested that I try and have a tough convo with her about her rage and emotional episodes. State to her that it's not love and that it won't stand.  Further to set a boundary that any further physical/emotional outburst, any abuse, threats or name calling and I would leave. 

We had that conversation this past weekend.  She insisted that she is not going to let it happen.  We discussed the constant living in uncertainty, either me with my guard up wondering when/if she is going to go off or that I may need to leave is exhausting.  She reconveyed her session with the MC/T and how she told him that the past 3-months she has been under a great deal of stress. She stated that she also discussed her past outburst and actions; and she promised that she wouldn't let it occur again.  It felt like a solid and positive [encouraging] discussion. Again, could be me being hopeful or otherwise codependent?

>>What do you feel would give you more confidence or conviction about your decision?
It's hard. Really gut-wrenching when she looks at me tearfully and states that I am her only family in the world. She has no other family but the kids and me. And I know, because of her past abuse, it's true, she has no one.

>>Have you started to read, or interview attys?
Last year when there was a lot of uncertainty, and she was making casual threats to divorce, telling me to leave or she would need to have me removed again, I went and visited with an atty to see what my options were should I decide to seek life elsewhere. I was worried about family abandonment and such. He gave me a cost break down of what it would cost to file D, he also ran child support numbers for me, which was helpful. 

>>Do you know anyone else who has been through this who you can talk to you?
I really don't. I have very close friends who I talk to/commiserate with about things, however they always give me usual accolades for my patience and concern for my safety. 

>>When posting here, are you seeking practical tips or emotional support? Maybe a bit of both?
I would say a bit of both? It's really eye opening to see and hear so many folks stating they have experienced much of the same things I have witnessed.

I am reading/listening to audio books. I have recently finished "Walking on Eggshells." And now I am also listening to "I Hate You--Don't Leave Me."  I have my eye on "Splitting."  My T has been helpful in assisting me to work with my indecisiveness on whether to leave, to stay and providing tools to deal with things in the interim.  He is in also in a short holding pattern to see how she does with her promise to rein in her emotions.

Since her visit with the T, her emotional rage outburst have not occurred to, which leads me down the path of giving her a guarded benefit of doubt.  We continue to have the difficult discussions which has been helpful.  At some point she will need to confront her wine drinking which has to be contributing to her issues as well.  I go to the T tomorrow for another session.

Thanks again for everyone's support and feedback, it is appreciated!

[PeteWitsend]

Thank you for the responses. I am still maneuvering through this process.  While my ubpdW seems to display all of the traits of BPD (severe at times), and our past few years have been difficult, I have to wonder if the most recent (Past 2-3 months) outburst were not an acute response to recent life stresses. 

...

I read through these, and none of them are that big of a deal.  Seriously, for most of my adult life, I could point to something - stress at work, stress at home, someone I know being sick/dying, etc. - to justify lashing out at others, but I don't do that, because I'm an adult.

What is the business about the account though?  You said she had known about it for some time, and then blew up about it? 

I have a couple thoughts overall:

1) You seem to take her & her claims WAY too seriously; whether she's BPD or not (it sounds like it), she's obviously got a lot of emotional problems and doesn't manage them well.  You need to stop accepting her explanation for things and her justifications for them as well as blaming yourself; everybody screws up and makes mistakes.  It doesn't justify their partner abusing them and falling to pieces at the drop of a hat. 

2) You need to stop expecting her to carry the burden as an equal partner in the relationship; it's up to you to determine what needs to be done and do it, and let her rage if she wants to.  In your first post, you asked "Can any of you tell me how you ever managed to have the conversation with your SO, that you wanted out?" ... my answer along these lines is "You don't, because you can't."

If you had a non-disordered partner, you could have a conversation like that, and in theory, get a reasonable response, either "I'm sorry, I didn't realize you felt that way, let's find a way to make it work," OR "Okay, well then let's end this and go our separate ways." But a pwBPD has an emotional disorder, unreasonable fear of abandonment, among other things, and is not going to be able to have a discussion on this topic without ending up going in circles, blaming their partner for their own behavior, making promises to change, etc. 

You have to make the decision by yourself and stand by it; the pwBPD is not going to make it any easier, except insofar as they cross a line that leaves you no choice but to end it and walk out on the spot.  They're certainly not going to agree to end it amicably and move on.  But as she has already accused you of abusing one of your kids and filed a complaint about that, and you stayed, I'm not sure what your "red line" is.