Mood Vampires

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I was discussing this the other day during a Ketamine session with my trauma therapist. I made the connection that most of my wife's (soon to be Ex Wife, UBPD) mood swings and splitting episodes were based on how my mood was. For instance, if i was stressed about something at work, she would start acting like a child, throwing hissy fits and insults occasionally, as well as start picking her scalp or pulling "gray hairs" out of her head. Other ways she would express the stress would be unplugging appliances in the house and ranting about how the dryer vent needs to be cleaned before the house burns down. I told her she is more than capable of cleaning a 4" long metal duct if she was so concerned, but always insisted I do it for her. When I started showing major signs of PTSD (both from former business partners NPD/BPD couple as well as the sexual trauma from my wife) she started getting way worse in regards to her extreme mood swings, feeling like I wasn't spending enough time with her (I would make time for her everyday for hours watching TV and making her snack food in the kitchen, on top of not hanging out with my friends, as she was constantly complain how lonely she was while I was in the same room with her and how i needed to be closer to her (I was making dinner and she was sitting on the couch...10' away)

There are lots of other simoialties like this throughout our relationship, but it also makes sense that if I gave her any push back on something she said (and I would show some level of iratation in my voice, she would immediately shut me down and call me rude, and she wishes I could hear myself talk sometimes. Which would always make me angry, but I would keep it to myself, as maybe she was right. I was never allowed to express anything other than happiness around her. Absloteuly no negative emotions. She would always tell me to ignore all that bad stuff and just love on her. Her not realizing that she was the problem at times as I didn't feel that was a healthy way of dealing with your emotions. Im not saying you should loose your mind every time you have a disagreement, but I am also not a robot and can't keep it all internally. I went to art school, I got to feel and express the feeling for the right audience. Even just now she was "conflicted about going out to see a movie with a friend from work, because it would take away time from her hanging out with me on a friday night (lately I hang out with my neighbor on fridays and sat to have drinks, watch movies and shoot the breeze and just have guy time) I reminded her, we spend Sunday thru Thursday night doing the exact some thing that we would be doing on Friday and saturday if the neighbor wasn't here, so why does the day matter, and not the way of which we already spend every freaking night.

Has anyone else felt like they were responsible for their spouses mood with BPD? That you were only allowed to feel and express positive emotions and that anything negative was shut down, or avoided?

[boundriesrus]

I was discussing this the other day during a Ketamine session with my trauma therapist. I made the connection that most of my wife's (soon to be Ex Wife, UBPD) mood swings and splitting episodes were based on how my mood was. For instance, if i was stressed about something at work, she would start acting like a child, throwing hissy fits and insults occasionally, as well as start picking her scalp or pulling "gray hairs" out of her head. Other ways she would express the stress would be unplugging appliances in the house and ranting about how the dryer vent needs to be cleaned before the house burns down. I told her she is more than capable of cleaning a 4" long metal duct if she was so concerned, but always insisted I do it for her. When I started showing major signs of PTSD (both from former business partners NPD/BPD couple as well as the sexual trauma from my wife) she started getting way worse in regards to her extreme mood swings, feeling like I wasn't spending enough time with her (I would make time for her everyday for hours watching TV and making her snack food in the kitchen, on top of not hanging out with my friends, as she was constantly complain how lonely she was while I was in the same room with her and how i needed to be closer to her (I was making dinner and she was sitting on the couch...10' away)

There are lots of other simoialties like this throughout our relationship, but it also makes sense that if I gave her any push back on something she said (and I would show some level of iratation in my voice, she would immediately shut me down and call me rude, and she wishes I could hear myself talk sometimes. Which would always make me angry, but I would keep it to myself, as maybe she was right. I was never allowed to express anything other than happiness around her. Absloteuly no negative emotions. She would always tell me to ignore all that bad stuff and just love on her. Her not realizing that she was the problem at times as I didn't feel that was a healthy way of dealing with your emotions. Im not saying you should loose your mind every time you have a disagreement, but I am also not a robot and can't keep it all internally. I went to art school, I got to feel and express the feeling for the right audience. Even just now she was "conflicted about going out to see a movie with a friend from work, because it would take away time from her hanging out with me on a friday night (lately I hang out with my neighbor on fridays and sat to have drinks, watch movies and shoot the breeze and just have guy time) I reminded her, we spend Sunday thru Thursday night doing the exact some thing that we would be doing on Friday and saturday if the neighbor wasn't here, so why does the day matter, and not the way of which we already spend every freaking night.

Has anyone else felt like they were responsible for their spouses mood with BPD? That you were only allowed to feel and express positive emotions and that anything negative was shut down, or avoided?

[EyesUp]

BRU,

The commonality for me is the sense of "walking on eggshells" - i.e., treading super lightly to avoid a negative mood shift in my uBPDxw...

Her hypersensitivity to, well, anything, probably contributed to some cumulative PTSD for me. I'm about 3 years out and still recovering...

"mood vampire" is an interesting turn of phrase...  I once called my uBPDxw an "anger artist" because of all the creative and unexpected reasons she could find to be angry.  As you might imagine, that did not go over well.  My point is:  we may have different experiences, but what you describe resonates with my experience, and many other stories here and in BPD literature.

Have you read Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life?  - Might be worth a look.

 

[boundriesrus]

Thank you for the insight! I am still going thru the early motions of divorce. Trying to get out of debt first from lawsuit with business partners and then pushing this with 100% of my power. Sadly I have already told her that I no longer love her romantically, and only as a friend/co-parent. While she still has no diagnosis, I brought up al the symptoms and examples of her throughout the years, and the marriage counselor agrees as well that she could be BPD. My guess is High Functioning/Quiet given how she acts in general very well, but when she doesn't you are shocked at the attitude/explosive anger, the digs at your manhood or ability to make money, and the unintentional gaslighting regarding what is really going on with her. I have been in counseling with her for over a year now and have brought up divorce multiple times, sadly she isn't getting it and still "wants to make things work" and I have told her that its not in the cards for me and she needs to try and stop pushing me to fix it.

I highly recommend EMDR or Ketamine therapy given by a proper therapist, it can be really effective. My pinched nerve pain in my back went away in a matter of hours after my first EMDR session and its been 2 months and no residual pain (it had been like that for years and no chiropractor could fix it, ended up being trauma related given the area it was in. As well as symptoms of hyper vigilance, panic attacks, rumination, anxiety all went away over night. It is like a Jedi mind trick honestly. If you are 3 years in, take a look at it because it can change your life, when done properly. I have looked at the book, but until I get separated and in my own safe space, I feel it will tip the hat towards what I think, and our therapists thinks, as to what is going on with her.

It's funny how I have kind of realized the Mood Vampire thing for a few years but kind of shook it off as I was crazy type thinking it. But history speaks for itself. Every time I was upset, she would tell me to stop it and express my anger in a happier tone. HUH? But also I would notice her mood would change too, if it were for a longer period of time, given how I was suffering from gaslighting trauma (known at the time, as well as PTSD from her sexually assaulting me years ago while trying to get pregnant, and I wasn't in the mood.) So it's funny when life is put into perspective.

I will definitely check out the book in the next few months as I am curious and think it will allow me to heal that much better moving on. Just got to focus on our daughter right now.

[Tangled mangled]

Boundaries,
I’ve always seen myself as mood stabiliser for the pwBPD in my life.
Started with my mum , years ago when I started pulling away from my parents- mum a bpd/NPD and dad an NPD/sociopath, my dad would insist I call mum because she always seemed to feel better after chatting with me. My dad used me to regulate mums moods so she could continue to provide his narc supply.

Growing up I was known as the daughter who always frowned her face- I have a serious face when I am doing most tasks- my hyper focused face. Perhaps their fragile egos were hurt at slightest bit of indication that I wasn’t happy with their behaviour. I was expected to be all smiles all the time- maybe in their disordered mind it reflected poorly on them when I wasn’t smiling. My dad even tried to bait me into an argument about me not smiling in professional photo- in my 30s.

Maybe your wife expects you to smile all the time in order not give away “ the secret “ that the marriage is crumbling.

[try2heal]

When our couples counselor (who is now my solo therapist) mentioned BPD to me last week, I looked it up and was blown away.... eventually finding myself here, of course!
In the Wikipedia entry, it explains that a pwBPD has "increased emotional sensitivity, especially towards negative mood states... this increased sensitivity results in an intensified response to environmental cues, including the emotions of others."
In my situation, my uBPDxBF considers himself an "empath," but it is only the dark version--he knows when I'm stressed or upset and either reacts as though I am angry with him and disregulates or decides I'm sick and over-caretakes/brings on illness.

[boundriesrus]

Trytoheal: Thank you I was not know that was a direct symptom, but it makes complete sense. My wife had always put down my emotions for years. If it wasn't a happy cheery emotion, she would put it down. Bad day at work, business partner embezzling, had to leave my own company and go into a lawsuit with no income...didn't matter, I had to put on the happy smiley face and was being told frequently I was being rude and I should hear myself talk sometimes. Sad thing is, ever since I told her "Im done" she has been in the step ford mode and doubling down on the fact that it wasn't her fault as to why I was done. A year or so later we are still in marriage therapy with the end coming soon. I am there simply to help her get diagnosed and get the help necessary to be a good mom to our daughter and be able to survive on her own. Im seriously done and planning the next step of my life, knowing that I will have to put on the nice face, when we are in the same location co-parenting for our daughter. Just stinks. Sorry you are in therapy over your stuff. I am over 2 years in right now, doing Ketamine Therapy for the PTSD and sexual trauma from my wife, as well as EMDR. The EMDR works really well! And quick, like exploding out of the water out of breath type of fresh air intake. I recommend it to anybody having to go through this type of thing.

[Gerda]

Something I read in one of the self-help books, I think it was Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, was that people with BPD believe "it's your job to make me feel better." And since they have an overall negative outlook on life, they feel bad A LOT of the time. And besides, people should be responsible for their own emotions, but people with BPD can't take responsibility for anything.

I was the emotional caretaker for my BPD mom after she and my dad got divorced (I later learned that often happens to the oldest child in those situations), which my therapist thinks primed me for becoming the emotional caretaker for my BPD husband.

The problem is that making them feel better is pretty much impossible. They're basically a bottomless pit of need and you'll exhaust yourself trying to make them feel better for years and years with no success.

But on top of that, YOU are never supposed to feel bad yourself. Because they think they are always worse off than anyone else, they will never take care of you if you feel bad. They'll actually get resentful if you have any problems that are taking the spotlight off of them and their problems.

I noticed that with both my mom and my husband. When I was a teenager and tried to talk to my mom about any of my problems, she'd just talk about how much better I have it than she did when she was a kid. When I'd tell my husband about something stressful at work, he'd always steer the conversation back to how much more stressful his job is than mine.

You just can't have a healthy relationship with someone like that. When it comes to BPD parents, they essentially reverse the parent-child relationship (the child has to support and nurture the parent and get nothing in return, when it's supposed to be the other way around - so beware of your wife doing that to your kid), and when it comes to relationships with adults (either romantic or platonic), those are supposed to be more or less equal, give-and-take relationships, but instead one person does all the giving and the other does all the taking.

My husband kept telling me to "fake it 'til you make it," when we were talking about our relationship. He said that I need to just act like I am happy in the relationship, and eventually the feelings will follow the actions. Well, I tried that, but constantly faking it exhausted me, and the "making it" never came.

[boundriesrus]

OMG Gerda! My wife has said the exact same thing to me for years! "Fake it till you make it" She even said this as recent as last year when things in our relationship started spiraling downwards (due to the lawsuit, and PTSD symptoms and realization that what my wife had done all those years ago, as indeed sexual assualt, and caused me PTSD from that as well). She has said it numerous times throughout our lives, especially during the bad parts or sad parts. I keep telling her in response, I don't feel like I have to fake it, who do I have to fake it for? You? If I am sad, I am going to let people closest to me know that I am sad. If I have to be professional during a work meeting during a depressive state, obviously I put on the happy salesman face, but at the end of the day I can let my hair down, all of which I feel is normal behavior (correct me if wrong), rather than fake it for myself and the whole word. I faked being happy in our marriage for years, all for trying to do better for my wife who had such a horrible first marriage experience. But as you said, whatever I did, was never enough. Whether it was never enough sex, or not making enough money, or not doing enough work around the house, not asking her what she wants for dinner (after I worked all day, came home and I usually made meals from scratch, or spend all my time on the weekends prepping meals for the family for the week) of which I would ask her what she wanted, and she could never make up her mind, so after a while I would stop asking as it just got frustrating and stupid) or not spending enough time with our daughter (as she would frequently remind me for years that "my wife gets to spend more time with our daughter that she does with me, so I need to spend as much time with her as humanly possible when I am not working.) I would tell my friends this comment, and they would kindly remind me, I am the provider for the family, I own a business, and I have to work to put food on the table, of which I also had to cook and prepare and clean up afterwards. Her nickname for me for the longest time was "Food Bitch", of which I turned around into a joke, but the more and more I see things from a different perspective, I am rather sure this is truly how she viewed me. I am going to look into that book though, good recommendation. Just tired, finally at least the lawsuit is starting to come to an end now, but now the divorce will start next...o what joys...

[Pensive1]

I recognize well the pattern you're describing, with my own ex. If I started talking about something I was really anxious about (e.g., something at work), she would start to get upset and try to shut me up. She had very little tolerance for me talking extensively about things that were bothering me. Her moods/emotions/behaviors were definitely affected by emotions I expressed. And I'll note that BPD individuals often seem hyperattuned to the emotions of other people.

Though personally, I view the overall phenomenon a bit differently from my ex being an "emotional vampire". I think Psychologist Elinor Greenberg PhD, posting on Quora, captures the issue well (at least in the case of my own relationship):
"Underlying Motives
BPD: Seeking love and nurturing"...
"Most people with BPD are searching for unconditional love and reparenting."...
"Borderline PD Core Fears:
I am inherently unlovable.
You will abandon me.
You will engulf me with your emotional needs instead of taking care of mine."

My ex really wanted to be taken care of, almost like a child. That was supposed to be my role. And I think she has an inappropriate core fear of being engulfed by a partner's emotional needs. So whenever that fear got triggered, things would head south.

[boundriesrus]

Sorry Pensive1. It is never fun having to deal with your partners emotions to the degree where you feel like they are acting like children. Your quote below makes perfect sense to me as well. Looking back I remember her trying to put her thoughts and feelings above my own after I left my company due to the embezzlement and she would always ask, "Why I was so sad/angry?" She would expect me to get over this rather quickly and go pretend to be happy around her and our child. I would be civil around them ALL the time and never lost my cool. Usually if I felt an outburst coming, I would excuse myself and walk out the front door and take a walk, just to get out some of the aggression. Also during that time I would request we only watched light hearted things at night before bed, The Office, Parks and Rec, Brockmire, something to giggle at and then go to bed. She would insist I watch these horribly gore type thrillers, of which would drive my blood pressure up and I didn't need anything else driving my anxiety up anyone than it already was. I would beg and plead with her to watch something else, but she would always just tell me to "man up" and deal. Imagine if I had done that during any movie or tv show with a battered spouse/domestic violence scene, where she always would ask to skip ahead or change the channel if it was too much of a reminder of her first marriage. Now imagine if I said no, and that she "needed to get over that" and "move on" as a response. NEVER would I have done that in a million years. Double standards...

[seekingtheway]

I recognize well the pattern you're describing, with my own ex. If I started talking about something I was really anxious about (e.g., something at work), she would start to get upset and try to shut me up. She had very little tolerance for me talking extensively about things that were bothering me. Her moods/emotions/behaviors were definitely affected by emotions I expressed. And I'll note that BPD individuals often seem hyperattuned to the emotions of other people.

Though personally, I view the overall phenomenon a bit differently from my ex being an "emotional vampire". I think Psychologist Elinor Greenberg PhD, posting on Quora, captures the issue well (at least in the case of my own relationship):
"Underlying Motives
BPD: Seeking love and nurturing"...
"Most people with BPD are searching for unconditional love and reparenting."...
"Borderline PD Core Fears:
I am inherently unlovable.
You will abandon me.
You will engulf me with your emotional needs instead of taking care of mine."

My ex really wanted to be taken care of, almost like a child. That was supposed to be my role. And I think she has an inappropriate core fear of being engulfed by a partner's emotional needs. So whenever that fear got triggered, things would head south.

I have read this sentiment from Dr Greenberg a number of times as well. I find her take on BPD very easy informative and easy to understand. Helps you to de-personalise the whole process and see none of it is really about you...

But yes, the function of the relationship is to re-parent, and I saw this with my ex repeatedly. If I went through something that threatened to flip the dynamic into me being the one that needed something, he would begin to retreat almost immediately, or would sabotage. The fear of engulfment kicked in hard for him and I would flag it as a pattern and he would feel bad about it, but he felt powerless to change it. He would question it and wonder why he couldn't be there for his partner, when he is able to do it freely for friends and people in the community. So it didn't make sense to him, either.

And the hyper-attunement to changes in emotional states... which is a bit different... My ex was exactly the same. He could not see that my moods and emotions are naturally going to fluctuate (same as any human) but he and the relationship would still be safe. Unlike whatever he had experienced as a child.

[boundriesrus]

Thank you for your insights! As much as I have read, been to therapy, and researched myself, as well as experienced, it still just baffles my mind how someone's brain can do the things it does. For instance, a year ago I told my uBPD wife that I was done and had hit a wall. Simply put, I had been waking up early for 3 days in a row to start excessing again in an effort to battle my PTSD symptoms as well as high blood pressure. When I told her (was not hiding it, my gym equipment is essentially underneath our bedroom and you can easily hear something going on while working out) that I had started a few days previous, she slowly turned her head over to glare at me like I had been cheating on her. She stared at me and said in a kurt tone, "When we get home, you are going to wake me up and we are going to excercise together" I told her we will see and kinda brushed it off. When we got home later that week she asked me what time I was waking up in the morning to work out. I told her 6am, she said ok and that was that. In the morning, my alarm went off 3 times, she never woke up, so I went downstairs to work out. I come upstairs to find out she's pissed at me and crying about her not waking up to go downstairs. Mind you, she never set HER alarm, she was solely reliant on me to wake her up. While she is running back and forth in the house getting ready to head down to the pool for some family time, she starts yelling at me (not loudly thankfully) about why I didn't wake her up. I explained to her, things are rough right now and I just want some time to exercise bymself and watch what I want to watch, by myself. She yells at me, "I just want to spend more time with you, we don't have our Friday nights anymore because you hang out now with your friend/neighbor. I explained to her, its 1, maybe 2 nights a week, for 2-3 hours, and then I go upstairs and hang out with her and watch whatever show she wants to watch for the next few hours. I also reminded her I spend 5-6 nights a week with her, doing the exact same thing everynight, get a small snack, lay in bed and watch TV. I explained to her I didn't think I was asking to much. She of course disagreed and said she still wanted to work out with me. I held firm and said no, it's my time. She pushed back more and i just lost it, told her "I'm done, this isn't working anymore. She froze. Then started balling her eyes out and started pleading with me what she can do to fix it. I told her we needed to go to therapy together and she was like "tell me what i am doing wrong". I never told her as I know she would not accept it. The next day I woke up with eggs and coffee on my side table (this had not happened since my 30th bday from her...Im 40 now...) and she went full blown "Stepford" wife. The point of this is that this was over a year ago now...and she is still in this mode, while we have been navigating all our issues in marriage counseling. Of course she doesn't want to speak about the things she "doesn't remember doing", such as sexual assaulting me years ago multiple times, as well as not respecting my wishes to spending money after I quit my company and filed a lawsuit against them for stealing. The therapy is ongoing, but I have made up my decision. I took my wedding rings off over a year ago now...and keep them on my desk. I have not so much as put them on, even for special occasions since then. She continues to ignore everything that is wrong and honestly the only time I feel safe to discuss anything with her is in therapy.