Am I wasting my time

[usagi]

Hello forum,

I want to believe that my partner can change even in some small ways.  I've already decided that the status quo isn't sustainable.  I realize that there are things I can do to help better support my partner but I don't think I can continue unless she can also make some changes.

A couple of things have happened recently that really give me pause.  The first is that she's now taken to texting my friends and telling them how awful it is that I have put them before her needs.  That they need to talk with me about how to reprioritize and stop hurting her.  One of my friends is actually a therapist and was able to craft a supportive response to her.  The other two just didn't respond.  One of the other two told me that she is poison and that she'll never change.

Another thing that happened recently is that I had a one on one conversation with our new couples therapist.  The CT was very blunt with me about my partner saying that she will never change and that the most likely outcome is that we will be in therapy together until I have had enough and finally call it quits.

I've read some things on the forum that give me some hope that she could make some changes.  I'd love for her to develop even a little self awareness of how her behavior is leading to her hurt feelings.  And more importantly that she actually OWNS her feelings.  It's not something that I put inside of her.

I'm wondering if the best I can hope for is a life of misery and of just "getting by" with my partner.  Careening from one chaotic emotional outburst and break up to another.  Effectively living with an emotional toddler the rest of my days.  Is that what I can expect?

I would be willing to give her a chance but I feel like it may be hopeless.

What I need from her is to let me live my life without chiding my friends about the time I spend with them.  I also need her to be even a little more forgiving when I do something that hurts her feelings.  It will happen in the future, no matter how hard I try to avoid it.  Right now it feels like when I do hurt her feelings it's like an atomic bomb goes off.  You can only rebuild so many times.

Can she make any meaningful change or am I wasting my time?

[PeteWitsend]

Hello, usagi.

I've been posting here for years, and I think the general consensus is that while its possible for a pwBPD to improve their behavior generally, i.e. for the emotional extremes and impulsive behaviors associated with BPD to moderate, THEY have to want it.  It's a decision and path open only to them.  There's nothing you can do to convince them to take it, or to get meaningful help.

You really have to start thinking of this as an individual, and decide what you want, and what you will and won't tolerate going forward.  If that means you have to end the relationship, so be it, but don't base your decision on the possibility things might change in the future.

You'll likely also find marital counseling (MC) to be largely a waste of time.  Someone told me (years ago) that MC really only focuses on improving communications between two partners, not on real psychological issues that one or both partners may have.  And MC is really only successful when one or both of those partners is simply immature or inexperienced in relationships and lacks basic communication skills or an understanding of how to behave within a committed relationship.

That's not what's going on when BPD is part of the equation!

I think you'll find, like I did, that the pwBPD will only even attend counseling sessions to the extent they can dominate them and use them as a blame game and excuse their own behavior by pointing to things the partner did to "make them behave" that way.

If the counselor/therapist starts to zero in on the pwBPD's behavior and hold them accountable, they'll quickly refuse to keep going to sessions.

[usagi]

Thanks PeteWitsend,

That's exactly what I'm afraid is happing at the moment.  My partner has agreed to go but is hoping that the counselor will help me "see the error of my ways" so to speak.

She has told me in the past that she wants to recover from her fear of abandonment and that she's interested in finding her own therapist in the area.  I guess I'm holding out hope that this is her deciding to try but I haven't figured that out yet.

The CT tone seems to have changed.  When I talked to her before my partner went for her one on one she said that she wouldn't change and that this will most likely end in a break-up.  Now she's saying that next session she'll talk through what can change and what cannot.  She's encouraged me to just enjoy my time with my partner until we meet again.  I'm wondering if she's seen something in my partner that give her hope.  Or possibly she's just trying to not freak me out at the moment.

My friends are upset that I'm still in this relationship.  Not angry at me in any way but see me hanging on to this abusive relationship.  The more time I hear from them the less hope I have.  And the more my partner talks about how I need to change the less hope I have.

[ForeverDad]

I will repeat what I've told others here.

Do not even ponder having children if you do not share children - even if you do already share children, do not have more children - unless and until your spouse is well on the way to real long-term improvement and recovery.  Admittedly, that's a dismal warning but very real.

You've been here a year.  Reality check... Has she improved?  Doesn't seem so since in her perceptions she "is hoping that the counselor will help me 'see the error of my ways' ".  That is NOT improvement.  She is still set in her ways.  And IF she does get her own therapist, due to privacy laws you will not have assurance any professed progress is real and not claimed/postured.

[usagi]

Thanks ForeverDad,

She's not changed her behavior.  Not in the time that I've been with her.  At this point, I think I'm waiting to see what the CT comes back with in a week and a half.  I'd need to see that she's willing to take on some of the work that would help her change.  She's talked about seeing an individual therapist for her trauma/other related issues.  I'd like to talk through that with the counselor.  Otherwise I might have to have the CT help me break off the relationship.

This whole thing sucks.  I'm sure many of you have been here.  You see this wonderfully loving person but also plagued by destructive behavior.  You can't have one without the other.  Unless they seek treatment on their own of their own volition.  I haven't seen that yet.  Not sure that I will.

[EyesUp]

Usagi,

Every situation is unique.  Some things seem unique about yours:
- you have supportive friends
- you have a straight shooting therapist

Contrast with many others in relationships with disordered partners:
- often isolated or alienated from friends and/or family to some degree
- going in circles with therapists who rigorously avoid taking a side

I'm going to break a rule or two, I'm sure, but for avoidance of doubt I'll be blunt: 

PD or no PD - people don't change unless they want to change.

She's not going to do it for you. Trying to get her to change can only lead to resentment - sooner or later. Resentment is one of the Gottman's "four horsemen" of relationships from which there is no recovery. Take note of this.

The point is:  The only thing you can work on is you.

What are you prepared to accept that you have not yet accepted - about her or about yourself?  That's the material you have to work with. 

Hoping for her to change - or worse, actively trying to change her (reason with her, influence her, etc.) - is not the path to a happy and healthy relationship.

More likely, you will soon hear, if not already, that you are controlling and manipulative and only care about your own needs and feelings - and therefore you are the narcissist!   At which point her entitlement to criticize you and make increasingly unreasonable demands will only escalate.  Does this sound familiar?

I'll echo what FD said:  Do not have kids / more kids with this person.

Can people change?  Sure.

Can your partner change in some small ways?  Sure.

Is there anything you can do to help this process along?  Not really.

The absolute worst is changing your own behavior in order to capitulate or comfort your partner, only to have the same issue pop again weeks, months, years later because it was never truly resolved or forgiven.   And that's the thing with many PDs - they hold on to unresolved disappointments, traumas, etc., for a long, long, long time...

That's a big part of how we all get here in the first place.

Whatever unresolved issues influence your partner likely predate your relationship.  There's no way for you to jump in a time machine and rewind those tapes.

The only thing you can do is focus on your self.  What are you prepared to accept or not accept in this situation?   

It's not easy - we know this.

[once removed]

A couple of things have happened recently that really give me pause.  The first is that she's now taken to texting my friends and telling them how awful it is that I have put them before her needs.  That they need to talk with me about how to reprioritize and stop hurting her. 

this seems new and significant, like an escalation.

what seems to have led to it?

[usagi]

Thanks once removed,

Yes I'd agree that this is an escalation.  I found out from one of my friends that she asked him to convince me to end the relationship.  She wants out but can't find the strength to do it herself.  I think she knew this would do the trick.

She's feeling so much pain that she's committing relationship suicide basically.  That's how I view it.

I don't think I can let this go.  I'm going to confront her this weekend about it.  I think that it's clear now that she will never be satisfied that I have outside interests that are taking my attention away from her in any way.  I so badly want her to change but I don't think she's willing to and her attempts to sabotage the relationship keep getting more out of hand.

[kells76]

She wants out but can't find the strength to do it herself.  I think she knew this would do the trick.

She's feeling so much pain that she's committing relationship suicide basically.  That's how I view it.

I don't think I can let this go. I'm going to confront her this weekend about it.  I think that it's clear now that she will never be satisfied that I have outside interests that are taking my attention away from her in any way.  I so badly want her to change but I don't think she's willing to and her attempts to sabotage the relationship keep getting more out of hand.

To be blunt, isn't that you also committing "relationship suicide"? Wanting things to be done, but not being direct about it? Because "confronting" pwBPD about things like that can blow up relationships in a "plausible deniability" way: "I was just telling her I wasn't going to take it any more, that's all"... and then you aren't the one who ended it.

You and once removed are agreeing that things are escalating. You get to choose if you will also participate in escalations -- my sense is that a "confrontation" like that is an escalation.

Can you give yourself some time to pause, get to a baseline, and think through what it is you really want, behind the option of "confrontation"?

You're hurting so much. I'm really sorry there's so much pain going on in your relationship right now, and I know this was not what you wanted.

And if I'm misreading your intent, let me know.

[usagi]

Thanks kells,

She's shown time and again that when I pull my focus away from her she will act out.  Now she's involving my friends directly in that and I can't have that.  It's a step too far.  Period.

[kells76]

She's shown time and again that when I pull my focus away from her she will act out.  Now she's involving my friends directly in that and I can't have that.  It's a step too far.  Period.

It's fair to have personal boundaries in our lives, I get it.

Let's use our skills here.

There's a difference between confronting a relationship partner, and having a real personal boundary.

How would you phrase this:

she's involving my friends directly in that and I can't have that.

as a real boundary? It won't be dependent on confrontation, explanation, talking it out, defending your wants, making her change, "making" her "respect your boundary", etc.

This is a rule for your own life. How would you say it? What rule for your life do you want, that you will adhere to?

[kells76]

I'll add that understanding your intent here seems important.

It's OK to be conflicted. That's what this board is here for -- weighing pros and cons.

What would be your goal if you were to confront her?

Is your goal to: be heard, get your point across, save/improve the relationship, make a statement regardless of outcome, end the relationship, request that she do/not do something...?

[usagi]

Thanks kells.

I won't be in a relationship where I have to lose myself completely to stay in it.  I've done that before.  Not again.

[usagi]

I was thinking about just asking questions.

1.  Why did you contact my friends?
2.  What did you think the outcome would be?
3.  Have you considered how this would impact my relationship with my friends?
4.  How does this help/hurt our relationship repair work?

What I'd really want is for her to send them an apology and to promise to not contact them again.  I'm expecting she will not do that.

[kells76]

Putting these two together:

I won't be in a relationship where I have to lose myself completely to stay in it.

and

I was thinking about just asking questions.

1.  Why did you contact my friends?
2.  What did you think the outcome would be?
3.  Have you considered how this would impact my relationship with my friends?
4.  How does this help/hurt our relationship repair work?

What would be the purpose of confronting her with those questions, if you've already decided for yourself not to be in relationships where you lose yourself, and if it seems likely she cannot engage with those questions in a way that is meaningful to you?

It seems like going down that road would only add to everyone's hurt and pain.

[usagi]

It seems like it depends a little on where my head is at in the moment.

When I think of the things I'll lose if we break up I tend toward the softer approach (questions).  The purpose there would be to make her aware that I'm not happy with what she did and that we'd need to work through it.

When I think of all the dysfunction and how her actions have shown that she needs me to be fully integrated and not be an individual I just want to run.

I am in an abusive relationship.  That's not healthy.  I can either allow the abuse to continue or leave.

[livednlearned]

Wanting a partner with BPD to change is pretty common refrain here.

Most BPD experts say it's a matter of radical acceptance.

Radical acceptance means seeing the person for who they are. We have to see the relationship for what it is. It's a shift in expectations.

You stop assessing your life in terms of how things are going in the relationship.

Sometimes you'll be her partner and sometimes you'll be her parent.

One of the upsides of radical acceptance is that it's a pathway to heal or grieve what you don't have so you can focus on what you do, and from there decide whether you have the strength to pull the extra weight.

It's a special needs relationship.

[kells76]

What if you took the pressure off yourself to "do something about it" this weekend?

I wonder if you can give yourself a concrete step of "first I'll talk through my thoughts with the therapist at my next solo appointment. Then I'll know better how to move forward"?

Give yourself time to get back to a baseline and get some neutral support. Decisionmaking (stay vs go, confront her vs not) when you're not at baseline can escalate things.

What if you also took time for yourself this weekend? Can you do a day trip somewhere, focus on something besides the relationship? Create some space for your brain to get back to wise mind.

Unless I'm missing something, besides emotional discomfort I am not sure there needs to be "decide this weekend" pressure.

[usagi]

Thanks livednlearned,

I completely recognize that.  It is something that I would have to "radically" accept for sure.  It is not something, however, my friends necessarily need to accept.  I'm not willing to give up my friendships over this and it's heading in that direction.  The big issue is the disrespect and language she's using with my friends.  It's not OK and they are not understanding of it.

Thanks for the support kells.  Seems like you're busy on the boards today!

I've given myself that deadline.  It's because I feel like she's really crossed a line.  In my marriage my ex put me in a position where I was forced to give up some of my friendships.  It was devastating for me and I let it happen in hopes that the relationship would get better.  It never did.  We spent all our time in couples therapy talking about what was wrong with me.  The relationship fell apart in spectacular fashion.  I'm letting this happen again and I can't.

I have a phone call with the couples therapist (just the two of us).  Right afterwards I'll be meeting with my individual in person.

There is no hard deadline.  But I feel like I'm dragging this out.  If this is the behavior I can expect going forward then I can't be in this relationship.  I can't have her running off my friends and taking away my hobby.  We're not there yet but this is really the first step.

[usagi]

She's not my child.  I have a choice to be in this relationship or not.  And right now the relationship is starting to destroy other aspects of my life.

[jaded7]

I was thinking about just asking questions.

1.  Why did you contact my friends?
2.  What did you think the outcome would be?
3.  Have you considered how this would impact my relationship with my friends?
4.  How does this help/hurt our relationship repair work?

What I'd really want is for her to send them an apology and to promise to not contact them again.  I'm expecting she will not do that.

Usagi, sorry for the tough times. We feel you.

You say you are in an abusive relationship, and it's not healthy. And she's now involved your friends, and you can't have that.

Do you think asking her these questions will give you some clarity? Is she (our partner or ex) going to suddenly be vulnerable, open, honest and free of the very dense mechanisms that have lead to this situation?

In any other scenario, with a person who can RELATE, that is, be in a healthy relationship, these questions might get you somewhere. I highly doubt- because I've been in an abusive relationship with a bpd/npd/cPTSD person- that asking questions of this sort will get straight answers. I tried, many times.

[Outdorenthusiast]

There is no hard deadline.  But I feel like I'm dragging this out.  If this is the behavior I can expect going forward then I can't be in this relationship.  I can't have her running off my friends and taking away my hobby.  We're not there yet but this is really the first step.

Reach out to your friends and share vulnerably what is going on and what you are afraid of, and what you are uncertain of.  If they truly are your friends - they will rally behind you and you need this now more than anything.  We are here for you - but friends who can sit with you are valuable too.

As to does it get better - yes and no.  She has to want the therapy and realize that the cause of the relationship breakdown is outside of your control.  The conversation with my high functioning W was - “If you aren’t healthy - we can’t be healthy.”  Couples therapy is likely a waste of money, but the therapist won’t tell you that.  My W had all 9 of the 9 characteristics before starting weekly therapy 2.5 years ago.  All but 4 are now in remission, and the 4 remaining are much less severe, but never gone.  Weekly therapy is likely a lifelong commitment - especially with trauma and likely co-morbidities (very common).  In my situation I have three teens and I can afford the therapy - so that has been my path.

So - you don’t have kids and 50% of the world population is female.  My story is a potential view of a “good” scenario as you are pondering your “happiness odds” and “what if’s”  …

[Outdorenthusiast]

She's not my child.  I have a choice to be in this relationship or not.  And right now the relationship is starting to destroy other aspects of my life.

Also- since you are in an emotional fog right now…a little context may help… relationships are meant to add to your life and to help you grow and become the best version of yourself.  Is that what you are getting?  Listen to that little voice in your head - it usually is right… even if painful.

[ForeverDad]

It seems you're looking for Closure.  "Why did you do this or that?"  If you already know the relationship is fraught with dysfunction, why do this?  In other words, what is the point?  Why not just walk away?

For us here dealing with an acting out personality disordered person, trying to get the other to reason on the whys and whatevers is not productive.  You'll get Blaming and Blame Shifting, even Projection of her issues onto you.  It's simply not productive and tempts even overreactions.

Gift yourself a sense of Closure.  PDs do not make logical sense.  Yes, textbooks are written describing PD perceptions but it still will not make common sense because their mental concepts are twisted out of normal.  Just accept you can't fix it or even help the other to figure it out.  You've been in an emotionally close relationship and she won't get past the emotional baggage of the relationship to truly listen to you.

Probably better to accept the reality, Let Go and Move On with your life.  Yes, it sucks, but that's life sometimes.

[Notwendy]

From my own experience- wondering if someone will change or not is better decided in retrospect where you have evidence of behavior to look at.  I think the decision is more about you than the other person- when is your own internal decision that you have seen, done, tried what you can on your part and seeing the results. There can be a cyclic nature to this disorder, so the times where behavior seems better- it may lead to hope.

There seems to be a series of issues. This person did this or that and then it gets sort of resolved or calms down and then another issue. Rather than looking at each individual issue- taking a long range perspective at the patterns of behavior, over time, may be more helpful. Also decide just how much time is enough for you to decide. This could vary for each situation.

During the times of their attempts to change- is this internally motivated or external- fear can be motivating- so if they think that you may be wanting to leave, they may be able to hold it together a bit better but once the motivator is not there, it's not a consistent change.

Also, it's not desirable to be in the push pull situation where one pulls in order to get the other person to be more motivated. That's dehumanizing, and it's not the relationship one seeks with a spouse.

We can't predict the future but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Has this person ever taken responsiblity for their own actions? Do they have internal  motivation to change or is their behavior based on external motivation. Is their behavior abusive? Has anything you tried actually been effective in the long run. And at what point do you feel you have seen enough to decide?

As to closure- I think FD makes a good point. Asking her why she contacted your friends like that is probably not going to be productive. In my own experience, it's a form of triangulation with the BPD person in "victim" perspective- rallying the friends, or family, to her "side" against you, the perpertrator. It can be illogical and it's a boundary issue- but pwBPD have poor boundaries. Even if they know it's not OK to do that, being in victim perspective somehow makes the behavior justified to them. It's illogical to you but possibly not to them in their own thinking.

[EyesUp]

@FD's concept of "gifting" something to yourself is also a gift.

I rigorously avoided ending the relationship with my uBPDxw.  When I finally accepted that the relationship had to end, it was a revelation.  I had been "gifted" EyesUp 2.0 by EyesUp 1.0. 

I remain grateful for my reboot and fresh start - something I did not know was possible, and did not think to consider or explore.  But once it arrived, it came with relief. 

It's hard to consider what you might be missing as you consider your situation.  For me, radical acceptance was not accepting the behavior of my uBPDxw, rather, it was accepting the things I could change in myself.

The conflict with my X continues because we have kids.  However, I've reconnected with friends and family and life in general - in a way that had not imagined. 

The language we use here tends to lay a lot of blame at the feet of our disordered partners - bu the fact is:  It takes two to tango.   There is grace in accepting that you cannot change another person, and also in striving to improve yourself.  Some responsibility for these difficult relationships lies within us - as we persist, and attempt to reason, or fight - or remain unsettled and unhappy with capitulation and compromise. 

The simpler alternative is to... not do any of that.  And to accept what we can do. 

[usagi]

Thank you all for the support....

I have a couples session at 2:00 today and I'm going to admit that I cannot go on.  I am not going to do it in anger and will try to avoid a conversation about blame.  It's simply because my needs and quite frankly her needs are not being met.  Not only that, but the needs are in direct conflict with one another.

She needs me to make her my top priority 100% of the time.  I need to be encouraged to go out and pursue relationships and experiences that are important to me, which means I can't devote 100% of my time to her.  She also needs someone who will take responsibility for her emotions.  I need to have a partner that will share the work of building a healthy relationship and not place blame.

I can't expect her to change her needs and likewise she can't expect me to change mine.  There's no where to go from here.  It is hurting me and her both.  She doesn't want me to go because she does love me so much, regardless of her emotional dysfunction.  And I love her with all my heart.  My love for her and myself is why I need to do this.

[Tangled mangled]

I’ve heard people say love is not enough, perhaps they re pwbpd or some sort of disordered.

Love is enough and you have done what you had to do. You have reached an important conclusion that you can’t give her what she demands.
She demands that you lose your self and that’s what she’s tried to achieve.

Take care of yourself- don’t underestimate what that will entail in the aftermath of this relationship.

[usagi]

Thanks again for all the support.

I did manage the courage to tell my partner in therapy that I was done.  I wrote up a few things to have handy before hand to make sure I stayed on message.  I listed three needs that I have and three needs that she has.  I then talked about how those needs conflict with one another.  For example, one of my needs is to have a partner that fosters my friendships, interests, and activities outside of the relationship.  One of her needs is to have a partner that makes her the top priority 100% of the time.  Those two things are just not compatible.

My goal was to lay out why I needed to go without being driven by anger but instead by compassion and love.  We have been tearing each other apart because our needs are not being met.  It's really that simple.  And the more we "tried" the more hurt we caused each other.  I told her that staying together wasn't a matter of trying harder.  We just need different things from our partner and there was no bridging that gulf.

I started the session with this admission.  I wasn't sure if she'd want to stay to talk more but she did.  At the end of the hour I was surprised that she asked the counselor if she could continue as an individual client.  She has an appointment tomorrow.  I'm really hoping that she'll continue with that.  My partner walked out of the room first.  The counselor said to me in a very quiet tone that I did the right thing.  That there was nothing I could have done to rescue the relationship.

After the session I spoke with her for a bit.  She did what she always does and askes the same question over and over again, trying to process what just happened.  I felt like a butthead because I had said I'd go to dinner with her afterwards.  She came to the session with a new dress and with anticipation of an evening connecting with me.  Then she asked if we could switch the mattresses.  I said yes.  When we first moved she took a mattress that she has trouble sleeping on.  I was fine with switching them at some point so though yeah maybe I could do this now.

It was many hours before I could leave her.  We went to my place and got the mattress and a few other things.  Drove to her place and dropped them off.  Throughout the moving process she kept asking for more information.  Then at the end she stood in front of her apartment with her arms open wide and said "you'll have to be the one who leaves because I'm standing here with my heart open."  I walked back to my car and started driving away.  She came running after me with tears in her eyes.  I stopped and said goodbye again and drove off.

I decided I needed to get out of town for a while so had a hotel booked for the night and a VRBO for the following week.  When I got home I started packing up my things to leave and she showed up.  She said she wanted me to keep going to therapy, at least three times and give her a chance.  I said no, that this isn't about how hard we try.  She then tried to get me to stay with her one more night.  She said that she needed that and I should give it to her.  I said no to that as well.  Then she ran inside the house and took a shower.  After that she begged me to stay.  She even got down on her knees and pleaded with me.  It was so hard to keep saying no and walk away.  Then she jumped into my car and said she wasn't leaving.  I just took my dog and walked away.  I came back a little while later and she had gone.

Since then she's sent me a few text messages apologizing for different things and wishing me well.  I haven't responded.  I'm not sure when I'll feel ready to do that.

I feel like this is really just getting started.  She won't let me go.  She'll try to keep getting me back and I'll have to keep resisting.  I'm convinced that it's the best thing for the both of us.

I'm not sure what kind of partner she needs.  Maybe she really needs someone who is willing to fully give themselves up for her.  But letting her draw me back in will not ever make her happy.  And more importantly it's not going to make me happy.

My journey here is not finished.  I'm sure that I'll still be interacting with her on some level.  We have dogs that we own as a couple.  I'm not going to prevent her from seeing the one that stays with me mostly.  I would like to get to a place where we are friends but I'm not sure what that path looks like.  She needs to finally accept that I'm done with the relationship.  And she needs to walk away too.  Maybe when that's finally happened we can try to develop a friendship but we'll see.

I need to understand why I let this go on so long.  The first time I tried to break off the relationship was nearly two years ago.  At that time, she guilted me into coming back saying that she needed support and was afraid for her son not having a home.  Before that, she "broke-up" with me many, many times.  She asked me why I couldn't make her feel more secure in the relationship.  I admitted that I hadn't felt secure in our relationship for years.  It was a huge ask to have me make her feel secure and in turn make myself feel more secure.  That's too much to ask of anyone.

I've gotten a lot of support from my friends.  I haven't told my family yet but will soon.  I need to keep looking toward how I am going to move on.

I had started becoming a more confident person before meeting her but after this experience a lot of that progress has been eroded.  I've been in the Twilight Zone for the past four and a half years.  Living two lives.  In one life I am never good enough and am constantly chasing after improving myself for my partner's sake.  In the other I'm a confident, successful person with lots of support from my friends and family.  Now I need to shake off all that negativity.

Thank you all again.  I have a feeling I'll be posting here again at some point.

Before I left she asked me if I felt she really had BPD.  I said that I thing she has many of the traits of BPD.  I have left her with all that I can.  It's up to her now to try to heal and maybe, just maybe, admit that she wants to heal and become a stronger and more mentally healthy person.

[kells76]

Hey... so sorry it came to that. It's good you are giving yourself some space out of town this week. I hope you can be patient with yourself right now and in the near future as you process a lot of heavy emotions