Deserving of Respect and Consideration

[jaded7]

As I think back on my relationship, and as my mind clears a little bit, and as I read through everyone's stories and struggles here
I notice that all, or most, of us who have been in the relationships with someone with BPD (or cpstd, or bpd) have been the recipients of so much
verbal abuse: put downs, yelling, name calling, mimicking, belittling.
gaslighting: telling us what our feelings and intentions are, rearranging history, denying things that were said, etc.
ghosting/silent treatment: not answering  texts or calls for hours, days, weeks
blaming
explosive anger

...and many other hurtful behaviors. And I'm just really thinking how fundamentally disrespectful these are. We all deserve to be treated with respect, even from people who don't particularly like us or even from strangers. It's a basic right.

Why or how our partners or exes were the way they were really doesn't matter if they treat us with disrespect and abuse us verbally, emotionally, psychologically, physically. It simply doesn't matter what their diagnosis is. And it surely is SOMETHING if they are doing these things to us, or they are simply a bad person.

Because we wouldn't do these things to other people, I think we look for explanations that will make sense....to US. This creates a hall of mirrors problem that will have us twisted up in knots trying to figure out what is real and what isn't.  But that's a fundamental problem, OUR lens distorts our view of the situation. Our lens says that we treat people kindly and with respect, and when we don't something has gone terribly bad for us- stress at work, lack of sleep, not eating, dehydrated, worried about a presentation. Whatever....but we put our lens on it..

I love _________, and I blew up at her today. I feel bad, darn it. I was hungry and didn't sleep well last night, and traffic got me stressed. But that's no excuse, I need to tell her I'm sorry and that I love her.


We apply that lens/kind of thinking to our partners, we assume they share our reality of this is how we should be in relationships.

We bring something up that hurt us, and its explosive anger and attacks in return.

But their behavior is well beyond what we'd ever do, see the list above, and they don't change. And they don't apologize, or if they do it's 'I regret that' or  'I wouldn't have _____ if you hadn't _________.'

So we end up tolerating disrespect over and over again because we are applying the wrong lens to the situation.

[SinisterComplex]

So we end up tolerating disrespect over and over again because we are applying the wrong lens to the situation.

This is so very true. Hence why you may have come across some of my many posts mentioning to call someone on their S ! and not tolerate being disrespected. Never hesitate to put someone in their place when they step over the line. You cannot allow someone to become in the words of the dearly departed Charlie Murphy from the Dave Chappelle show..."A Habitual Line Stepper." 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Under The Bridge]

I can relate to this totally. It's amazing - and also very frightening - how they can re-write reality, even when everyone tells them they're wrong. Just adds fuel to the fire.

I know it's a classic sympton of BPD to bend facts but you would think there were times when even the BPD would know what they're saying just isn't true. Maybe in some cases they do know they're making it up, I imagine it's different for every individual.

One of my last memories of my exwBDP is of her shouting and waving her finger hand in front of my face. On one finger is a sapphire and diamond cluster ring, on her wrist are two heavy gold bracelets and round her neck is a gold chain. Back at home she has other jewelry, also from me.

So what was she yelling in this rage? Yes, you've guessed it. she was yelling 'You never buy me anything!'.  Her bracelets were actually rattling together loudly as she said it.

After this, I didn't do the usual 'chase after her even though I'd done nothing wrong'. It was the last straw for me.

[jaded7]

I can relate to this totally. It's amazing - and also very frightening - how they can re-write reality, even when everyone tells them they're wrong. Just adds fuel to the fire.

I know it's a classic sympton of BPD to bend facts but you would think there were times when even the BPD would know what they're saying just isn't true. Maybe in some cases they do know they're making it up, I imagine it's different for every individual.

One of my last memories of my exwBDP is of her shouting and waving her finger hand in front of my face. On one finger is a sapphire and diamond cluster ring, on her wrist are two heavy gold bracelets and round her neck is a gold chain. Back at home she has other jewelry, also from me.

So what was she yelling in this rage? Yes, you've guessed it. she was yelling 'You never buy me anything!'.  Her bracelets were actually rattling together loudly as she said it.

After this, I didn't do the usual 'chase after her even though I'd done nothing wrong'. It was the last straw for me.

I'm glad you found this helpful. It's so, so bizarre and I think this is why our minds go crazy trying to make sense of it. The lens causes us to not realize that it's, for lack of a better word, disordered thinking. It's like doing a Rubik's cube that was manufactured wrong and there is no solution, but we don't know it. So we try and try, and then try to understand why we can't solve this puzzle.

In your case, being yelled at and a finger pointed in your face that you never buy me anything as thousands of dollars of jewelry on her arms and neck stare you in the face. Surely she realizes this? But she doesn't seem to.

I recall my ex yelling at me and pointing her finger in my face too, while pacing angrily around the room. During that episode she told me my place is a "pigsty", when previously she had told me my place was cleaner than hers. I pointed this out to her, that it was just as clean as when she told me that. That went nowhere, of course. Classic example of JADEing.

And the you 'never', and you 'always'. Also a characteristic. I was told so many times you 'never' and you 'always', and I've read that is something common in BPD. In our last conversation she rattled off 10 or so examples of this behavior, and I just calmly refuted every one of them, thinking to myself this is so bizarre that she is saying these things about me, and us.

"You didn't show up for me for my eye surgery!"- you never told me about your eye surgery, if you want me there you need to tell me about it. "We talked about it all through November and December!!" No we did not, the last time we talked about it was 3 or 4 months ago, I can tell you exactly what day it was, where I was sitting and where the sun was in the sky. "Well, did you write it down then!?" No, I did not, I assumed we'd be communicating like a normal couple (and she had not said a specific date, or time, or place).

"You never cook anything!!"- I do too cook....I even sent you a picture of one of my dinners I made that I was proud of. "Oh yeah, whatever THAT was". From you never cook to what you cook is stupid. In the blink of an eye.

That's just two of them from our last conversation. Her making a false statement, me telling her that's wrong, and her just simply sliding over to the next level of criticism, not even acknowledging what she just said was a blatant untruth.

That's the slippery slope many of us would find ourselves in....like playing wack-a-mole, defending ourselves and trying to bring facts to the conversation.

[Under The Bridge]

Totally true, I experienced all of what you've said at some point and it got to the stage where I had no idea what would happen each time we met. I'd be sitting in the bar, drink all ready for her and thinking 'We had a great time last night so she'll be fine tonight too'.. then she'd walk in and totally ignore me. Usual cause was 'a bad day at work' or 'arguing with her mother'. She would take it out on me, rather than see me as her loving boyfriend who was a shoulder to lean on.

It just wears you down when it happens time and time again. I know that BPD's tend to take it out more on the people they're close to but it still doesn't make it alright and acceptable.

It was her eyes that made me decide to finally end things on that last day. Her pupils were large and jet black and looked utterly soul-less and demonic. I'd never seen that with her before. She wasn't violent but she wasn't far off and it made me wonder if future incidents would descend into violence on her part.

I never found out as I went totally 'no contact' this time. In all honesty I hoped she'd finally see just exactly how badly she'd behaved and contact me with some sort of remorse or apology but there was nothing from her at all.

You have to keep telling yourself 'it wasn't her, it was her illness' but it's hard to believe there's not also some conscious, deliberate actions in what they do. Before I found out about BPd and it all became clear, I just thought she had a mean streak in her. Possibly she did anyway.

[jaded7]

Totally true, I experienced all of what you've said at some point and it got to the stage where I had no idea what would happen each time we met. I'd be sitting in the bar, drink all ready for her and thinking 'We had a great time last night so she'll be fine tonight too'.. then she'd walk in and totally ignore me. Usual cause was 'a bad day at work' or 'arguing with her mother'. She would take it out on me, rather than see me as her loving boyfriend who was a shoulder to lean on.

It just wears you down when it happens time and time again. I know that BPD's tend to take it out more on the people they're close to but it still doesn't make it alright and acceptable.

It was her eyes that made me decide to finally end things on that last day. Her pupils were large and jet black and looked utterly soul-less and demonic. I'd never seen that with her before. She wasn't violent but she wasn't far off and it made me wonder if future incidents would descend into violence on her part.

I never found out as I went totally 'no contact' this time. In all honesty I hoped she'd finally see just exactly how badly she'd behaved and contact me with some sort of remorse or apology but there was nothing from her at all.

You have to keep telling yourself 'it wasn't her, it was her illness' but it's hard to believe there's not also some conscious, deliberate actions in what they do. Before I found out about BPd and it all became clear, I just thought she had a mean streak in her. Possibly she did anyway.

I thought she'd see how badly she behaved as well, and call/text/email to at least apologize for her treatment of me and the names she called me. But then again, here I am putting my lens onto her. I WOULD call and apologize if I treated someone the way she treated me. I would feel bad and guilty for so intentionally hurting someone. I would hate myself. I would be horrified if I exploded at my girlfriend and yelled at her, belittled her, and put her down.

I felt the same way about the times we met...I never knew what kind of 'mood' she'd be in, or what I'd done 'wrong'. Walking On Eggshells is the title of a book for a reason.

[Pensive1]

My BPD ex would rage and rage at me. In the last few years of our relationship, I began to try point out to her that she was being abusive. But doing so (even in a very calm non-antagonistic manner) would just escalate her to even higher levels of anger. I naively thought that if I could get her to see the reality of things, that her behavior would change accordingly. That approach was entirely counterproductive.

I still interact heavily with my BPD stepson (my ex's son) who is addicted to meth and homeless. I'm one of his primary supports. For three years, I've been attending Community Reinforcement and Family Training (CRAFT) peer support meetings, that teach a different approach (and especially a different approach to communition) for dealing with a loved one in addiction. What's taught in CRAFT has some overlap with approaches in the WHINE book, for dealing with a BPD family member. I wish I'd known that material sooner. My BPD stepson and I now have a suprisingly good relationship, despite his meth addiction. He's never really abusive toward me anymore.

A friend of mine pointed out that, in the face of the kind of abusive behavior that my ex engaged in, most people (with normal backgrounds) would have left the relationship. I think he's right. I grew up with a very abusive BPD mother. So the kind of behavior from my ex that would have completely shocked most people and led them to flee didn't seem that shocking and odd to me.

[jaded7]

My BPD ex would rage and rage at me. In the last few years of our relationship, I began to try point out to her that she was being abusive. But doing so (even in a very calm non-antagonistic manner) would just escalate her to even higher levels of anger. I naively thought that if I could get her to see the reality of things, that her behavior would change accordingly. That approach was entirely counterproductive.


A friend of mine pointed out that, in the face of the kind of abusive behavior that my ex engaged in, most people (with normal backgrounds) would have left the relationship. I think he's right. I grew up with a very abusive BPD mother. So the kind of behavior from my ex that would have completely shocked most people and led them to flee didn't seem that shocking and odd to me.

There is a dynamic here that I've come to understand, and you describe it well. We try to point out something that is hurtful, or disrespectful, and we do it in a way that is relationship building....not trying to antatgonize, not trying to blame and hurt.....just wanting to have a great relationship. And it doesn't work, at all. Because I think doing so puts them in direct contact with shame and guilt, which for a person with a personality disorder, is no go zone. That's where the defense mechanisms then activate, and it looks like anger and gaslighting, which takes the pressure off of them.

Any good relationship should allow the partner to express their needs, and to share when the other is being hurtful. As you say, see the reality of things so the relationship can be more trust-filled and supportive.  But getting her to see the reality of things is precisely the thing they can't/won't do...beucase that would put them in contact with shame. That's why it goes nowhere.

My ex asked me clear out a Monday morning for a berry picking outing, which required I reschedule my work/business, get someone to come in for me, they had to rearrange their life, and it cost me money to have someone come in extra. All fine and good, I wanted to go berry picking with her. I was looking forward to it.

At 7:00am in the morning she called to cancel it because it was misting and I guess that made berries go bad in a bucket?. She, the person who had exploded at me and accused me of cancelling plans and ruining the previous summer, had now cancelled 3-5 of our 'plans' she made me put on a calendar for the summer, all at the last second  or 'forgetting'. I, by the way, had never cancelled plans....she just made that up. But I was a 'child' who didn't keep a Google calendar (I did), she was 'worried about my memory' (I didn't forget things).

I shared that since I had the morning free now, and we were both up, we should go get coffee and breakfast and go for a walk. She said "ok, let me take a quick shower and I'll call you". 3 hours and 10 minutes later she called, the need for the employee to come in had passed, and I had sat on a couch waiting all morning. I told her that I was annoyed that I had waited all morning, wasted my money, and the employee had rearranged her morning .....all for nothing.

She exploded at me. Then came the put downs, the gaslighting "I thought we'd just go later in the morning", the debate about what the words 'I'm going to take a quick shower and then I'll call you' mean.

There was just no way to get her to acknowledge the situation, no matter how hard I tried. She then got so angry she wanted to now cancel meeting up later in the morning..."just forget it!". She could not acknowledge that I and another person had rearranged our mornings for HER, and I had spent money to make it happen.

The next day she told me she was surprised I brought that up. She expected me to have no boundaries, she expected me to just roll over and accept the gaslighting and rearranging of facts, the obvious hypocrisy and double standards of accusing me of canceling plans the previous summer and being a child and ruining the summer, when she cancelled this plan, and 3 before it that summer.

It can simply be impossible to get them to see the reality of things if it goes against their narrative, or calls their behavior into question. Defense mechanisms kick in and you are quickly caught up in a 'fight' or circular arguments. 

[Pensive1]

Because I think doing so puts them in direct contact with shame and guilt, which for a person with a personality disorder, is no go zone. That's where the defense mechanisms then activate....

It can simply be impossible to get them to see the reality of things if it goes against their narrative, or calls their behavior into question. Defense mechanisms kick in and you are quickly caught up in a 'fight' or circular arguments. 

Yes, I think that's exactly right. I used to naively think that how her mind and thought process worked was basically similar to mine. So I'd say the kinds of things that would work if said to me. Despite all the years together, I didn't realize how entirely differently her mind worked. And I didn't realize the depth of the shame. She would occasionally use the phrase "self-loathing" in regards to herself, but I mistakenly thought that was just hyperbolic language. I had many experiences with my ex similar to your berry picking anecdote. And as you said, there's no way to get them to acknowledge the situation no matter how hard you try.

[Under The Bridge]

'I used to naively think that how her mind and thought process worked was basically similar to mine. So I'd say the kinds of things that would work if said to me. Despite all the years together, I didn't realize how entirely'

Exactly what I used to think too - that you could get the logic over to them and they'd see your point. Sadly, not a chance.

The first time my BPD broke up with me was when we were meeting in the local pub after work and she came in, I smiled and handed her the drink I had ready for her.. and she just walked right past me, totally ignoring me. Quite a shock as I knew I hadn't done anything wrong.

After eventually getting through to her it tuned out she'd had a bad day at work, Simple as that. But why take it out on me? Here's how her mind worked; she said 'Well I've had a bad day so I won't be much company for you and you wouldn't be happy because I'd ruined your night (her words) and you might get tired of me and break up over it so I thought I'd get in first and break up with you'. That was how she saw the whole thing. Reading things that weren't there.

I told her that what would have actually happened was that, upon learning she'd had a bad day, I'd have put my arm round her, told her I loved her and was always on her side, and made sure we had a fantastic evening together to make her forget the bad day.  It never even crossed her mind that I'd be like that, she just automatically assumed things were going to go bad.

You just can't compete with someone whose mind goes off in wild directions like that.

[try2heal]

There is a dynamic here that I've come to understand, and you describe it well. We try to point out something that is hurtful, or disrespectful, and we do it in a way that is relationship building....not trying to antatgonize, not trying to blame and hurt.....just wanting to have a great relationship. And it doesn't work, at all. Because I think doing so puts them in direct contact with shame and guilt, which for a person with a personality disorder, is no go zone. That's where the defense mechanisms then activate, and it looks like anger and gaslighting, which takes the pressure off of them.

THIS! Yes! But also the mean streak. My uBPDxBF, if and when he did literally anything that could make him feel shame or guilt and I said anything about how it made me feel (no matter HOW kindly I said it or how clearly I told him I loved him and it was okay but I wanted to discuss it) he would lose his PLEASE READ completely. And the things he said were the nastiest, meanest, most demoralizing things he could ever say--specifically getting at my insecurities or strengths in a way that was surgically precise.

He blames it all on medication, but he does it when he's not taking any meds for his sleep issues. Or he starts mixing meds as soon as he starts showing some stability, I think because otherwise he's building steam.

I finally told him in our last (final!!!!) breakup that one reason I cannot accept his apology "for the things I said on the medication that hurt your feelings" is that I cannot form thoughts in my head, much less make my mouth form words, that come close to the level of nastiness he expels at me.  Further, if I had ever taken a medication that led me to behave that way toward someone I loved, I would be immediately remorseful, want to know everything i had said and done so that I could truly apologize and be aware of what might trigger a future sadness or reaction in them that would be fully justified, and then be on the phone with my doctor to find out how to change my medication!

His reaction "Thank you for sharing that with me. I've never had anyone say this to me before and it certainly hurts. How am I supposed to respond to this." and then went on saying that he takes full responsibility but won't ever look at the abusive messages he sent to me because it was all the medication and I should forgive him!

[jaded7]

THIS! Yes! But also the mean streak. My uBPDxBF, if and when he did literally anything that could make him feel shame or guilt and I said anything about how it made me feel (no matter HOW kindly I said it or how clearly I told him I loved him and it was okay but I wanted to discuss it) he would lose his PLEASE READ completely. And the things he said were the nastiest, meanest, most demoralizing things he could ever say--specifically getting at my insecurities or strengths in a way that was surgically precise.

He blames it all on medication, but he does it when he's not taking any meds for his sleep issues. Or he starts mixing meds as soon as he starts showing some stability, I think because otherwise he's building steam.

I finally told him in our last (final!!!!) breakup that one reason I cannot accept his apology "for the things I said on the medication that hurt your feelings" is that I cannot form thoughts in my head, much less make my mouth form words, that come close to the level of nastiness he expels at me.  Further, if I had ever taken a medication that led me to behave that way toward someone I loved, I would be immediately remorseful, want to know everything i had said and done so that I could truly apologize and be aware of what might trigger a future sadness or reaction in them that would be fully justified, and then be on the phone with my doctor to find out how to change my medication!

His reaction "Thank you for sharing that with me. I've never had anyone say this to me before and it certainly hurts. How am I supposed to respond to this." and then went on saying that he takes full responsibility but won't ever look at the abusive messages he sent to me because it was all the medication and I should forgive him!

Yes, it does seem that no matter how gently you say it, they explode in anger at you. It becomes quite confusing because, as we all know, they do no hesitate to criticize their partner, tell them they are wrong, mock them, condescend, tell us we need to change this or that.

But you bring up one thing with them, no matter how kindly and lovingly you say it, and they go on the attack or deny, invalidate, deflect, yell.

You told him you love him and just want to discuss it, what a lovely way to approach it. But like you, I know this doesn't work. It becomes so baffling!

You touch on something Try2Heal that might be useful for others here, and something I have come to understand. You write that if your ex did anything that made him feel shame or guilt AND then you said something about it he would lose his sh*t.

I too noticed that when my ex was doing something that I would find hurtful, something that all of us in society would agree is hurtful...like, for example, not returning my calls or texts for days, or going on a weekend trip with her friends and not inviting me, or planning for 2-3 weeks to ditch me over the holidays WITHOUT telling me, or asking what I'm doing for the holidays (we'd been together for 2 years! I'd spent the last Christmas and Thanksgiving with her family at their house).....she would start to become snippy and short-tempered with ME, if and when we did talk. Or if I asked her why she wasn't communicating, which is an example of what your saying about bringing something up.

She sent me a text early on a Saturday morning saying "her son has a lot of homework and we're going to the market early"- we went to the farmers market every Saturday after I was done with my business around 11. I said, oh...ok! have fun! talk to you later. No worries at all, I had zero concerns. I called her later in the morning, no answer and no return call. I texted her later in the day, no answer for the rest of the day. Now mind you, she has nothing at all to do with her son's homework, has a dog that she must walk 3 times a day and always called me when she did that, and the year before her son had a massive finishing project for the year that took weeks and a huge final weekend of 10 hour days...during which she sent me photos, videos, called many times, texted many times. I heard nothing from her that day, the next morning I texted and no response. Finally in the afternoon I texted to ask why she isn't communicating.

That was the detonator, because as you say Try2Heal, she KNEW she was hiding something from me and intentionally ghosting me and knew that it was not nice, and knew she hadn't been truthful in her communication to me. I have no idea what she was doing that weekend, to this day. She must have felt a huge surge of shame and guilt...........and she called me within 7 seconds of this text, I said hello and she didn't even bother to say hi. She launched into

"YOU NEED MENTAL HEALTH HELP!!!" "I gave you an itinerary for the weekend!!!" "THIS IS YOU NOT ME"

No matter how many times I explained that her text was not an itinerary for the weekend, that she called and communicated a lot when her son had the huge project, how it takes all of 4 seconds to respond to a text, etc. etc...she just absolutely laid into me.

So I think you're right, I think they do at some level know that they are hurting us, and do feel some guilt and shame. I believe that's why she always
became snippy and mean to me when SHE was planning or doing something disrespectful and sneaky.