Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
September 21, 2024, 12:35:48 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Experts share their discoveries [video]
100
Caretaking - What is it all about?
Margalis Fjelstad, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
A perspective on BPD
Ivan Spielberg, PhD
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Reverse Split  (Read 414 times)
phoenix blue

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 25


« on: August 17, 2024, 02:56:52 PM »

I have a question that is playing on my mind and it's causing me some confusion regarding Splitting.

In the mind of BPD we are either their favourite or worse person. In the case of 'the split' contact stops and the relationship is over even though we may be trying everything to get back together.

Is that not exactl what we non BDP's are doing in order to escape?  I get that we have tolerated a lot pain caused by the BDP but in their minds we have  caused them a lot of pain. Any insight would be useful to close this thought process down  or at least quieten my thoughts.
Logged
Pensive1
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: broken up
Posts: 116


« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2024, 05:24:32 PM »

I'll just speak for myself here. I have a pretty nuanced view, and I don't see myself as blameless. I see my BPD ex as responsible for perhaps 2/3 of the problems in our relationship and myself as responsible for perhaps 1/3 (much of that due to behaviors rooted in my own childhood trauma). I can see all her BPD behaviors clearly (frequent rages, splitting, going helpless and needing caretaking, difficulty tolerating my disagreeing with her, never apologizing for major offenses, monkeybranching, etc.) and I can also see her good features (often kind and altruistic, extremely intelligent and interesting, etc.). At least in my own case, I'm obviously not splitting. But I also recognize that if we were together again (at least without her deeply changing via years of effective therapy), I'd be again in for a world of hurt. I always work to try to see the truth, even if uncomfortable, checking on my own cognitive biases and psychological defense reactions, etc. That's obviously not what my BPD ex does (e.g., in splitting).
Logged
phoenix blue

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 25


« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2024, 06:13:26 PM »

Thanks Pensive. This makes a lot of sense to me amd sounds like you have things pretty straight in your head. Has it taken a while to get to that position where you see it so clearly?
 
Logged
EyesUp
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 556


« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2024, 07:40:28 PM »

Hello Phoenix Blue,

Perceptions always require context, right?

We often hear the term "disordered" when discussing b-cluster personalities because they often perceive things in surprising and unexpected ways.  What follows is a chain reaction of invalidation or perceived invalidation - criticism, etc. - intended or not.

This very site coaches "don't be invalidating" - but that doesn't mean that we have to agree with or accept a disordered perspective.  Rather, it means that we should strive to respond (or not respond) with respect and avoid certain language and behavior that can reinforce disordered perceptions or trigger disordered responses - generally not productive for anyone involved...

Assigning blame for pain - and associated guilt, shame, and other negative emotional responses - is a huge part of the BPD experience precisely because those with BPD often cannot internalize/process these emotions - so they get projected on to partners or otherwise avoided or distorted.

Nonetheless, is it fair to say that brake ups are often painful to some degree?  It's obvious, right?  Brake ups are generally disappointing and hurtful for one if not both people involved.  If you've arrived at a point where the end of the relationship is accepted and understood - and you know that there's going to be at least some disappointment involved, is it really necessary to agree on the reason for the breakup?  It's like continuing to argue when no agreement is truly necessary.

Can you give yourself permission to move on without agreement on the fine points re:  who is responsible for what?   Of course any relationship takes two...  responsibility is shared - do we need to perfectly measure the ratio of responsibility and assignment of blame?  

Or is it enough to accept "this one isn't going to work for reasons large and small" without enumerating all the details - and move on to the work of self awareness and self acceptance needed to avoid repeating past mistakes?

For me, "radical acceptance" wasn't about accepting my uBPDxw's POV - rather, it was about accepting certain things about myself that I hadn't previously considered - things that led me into a longterm relationship with significant imbalances in the first place.

I hope this is helpful in some way...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2024, 07:45:51 PM by EyesUp » Logged
Pensive1
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: broken up
Posts: 116


« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2024, 09:19:04 PM »

Has it taken a while to get to that position where you see it so clearly?
Yeah, it has. I'm about a year out from deciding to end most contact with her. I didn't even recognize that my ex was a pwBPD until my therapist pointed it out, after my ex monkeybranched (and I should have recognized it, since my adoptive mother, who raised me, was a pwBPD). Though I never went through a phase where I saw my ex as all to blame for our relationship problems - I always had a sense of shared responsibility, while simulteneously being aware of her disordered thinking, the abusiveness of some of her behavior, etc.

I'll add that I appreciate the wisdom in EyesUp's thoughts here. E.g. "accepting certain things about myself that I hadn't previously considered - things that led me into a longterm relationship with significant imbalances in the first place." In my own case, I have a pattern of getting into relationships and engaging in caretaking with women who have serious mental health issues. The technical term for such trauma re-enactment is repetition compulsion. I'm seeking to break that pattern.
Logged
HealthTeacher

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Trying to commit to breaking up
Posts: 43


« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2024, 08:40:49 AM »

Hey...

It's very interesting that you bring up the favorite person dynamic since I have gone down a bit of a rabbit hole with it the last few days, and honestly, understanding it better gave me a lot of peace.

This article is amazing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9806505/

It is about the favorite person dynamic. Essentially, the situation seems to be so out of control for the person with BPD. Not all relationships they enter into and cycle with are "favorite person" and there are varying degrees of "favoriteness," but essentially... it's going to be hell for both parties and  what really got me was this: the more compassionate you are... the more they can tell you love them... the more they get clarity on the situation... the WORSE it can get. It's like a Chinese finger trap.

They meet you and if you become their favorite person, they are so overcome with obsession... and obsession they would truly rather NOT experience. This was nobody's choice. In fact, it is a lot easier for someone with BPD to go through life without a FP. It's not voluntary. When it happens, however, the wave of intense emotion and anxiety is so strong... it's like it surges through every cell in their body. It is NOT comfortable. It's elation mixed with intense fear. This is why they run from us... they need an escape from the intense feelings that they don't have the tools to cope with. The idealization also leads to a fantasy filled with social cues of validation. Their dream of a life with you, when idealized, is so blissful and conflict-free... but they are keen observers of social cues that are associated with rejection... and the more rejection-sensitive they are, the more hypervigilant they will be about spotting real or imagined social cues that you are falling out of intense unconditional love with them... or that their fairytale won't happen. They are not really equipped for a healthy relationship with conflict management. In fact, attempts to avoid conflict (like gaslighting) only create more.

What makes it WORSE is when the FP is compassionate and understanding... the more they do things that are well-adjusted... the more they try to help their anxious partner feel like they are secure... the person with BPD consciously or subconsciously sees MORE value in their FP... and it actually makes it more extreme. We met their needs... we met needs associated with their trauma and wounding... so they clung... and when they abuse us and we respond with compassion, we meet their needs MORE... and actually make the bond stronger even though, to a non, this would only make the relationship more damaged. It's oddly both damaged and stronger simultaneously with a FP that is truly at the top of their list.

Their waves of love get stronger and their feelings of being emotionally out of control get worse. They desperately claw at any opportunity for control... and that's where the devaluing comes in... the rejection... the monkeybranching... any attempt for them to feel like they are reclaiming their lives. According to the article, people with BPD desperately wish to avoid the very things that happen... that they feel are happening TO them. Without you they feel like they cannot breathe. They are missing some key element of their place in this world... their reason for existing... their best source of validation. When they say they don't want to do these maladaptive things--they mean it; they really don't... but then when the next wave of extreme fear or anxiety that you will leave them... and take away their oxygen... it again gets too uncomfortable... they push away... but then realize they cannot breathe... and the cycle continues. The relationship develops more scar tissue, which they use in their rationalization to justify why they are not deserving or why they need to cut bait and run... but also reinforces that we are unconditionally loving. They have a hard time feeling worthy of unconditional love. It's foreign... they want it... but they don't trust it. It's both there (which freaks them out) and possibly not there (if they mess up, in which case it's time to blame-shift... distract themselves/monkeybranch, and eventually time to get fixing if the new idol of interest falls short in meeting their needs as well as you did).

The other bit of insight was this... which I found very fascinating... There are people who are best-suited to be a FP. I would wager that those characteristics apply to most of the people who participate on this board... the more a FP is like a "teddy bear person," or the more they are nurturing, loving, understanding, and accepting of them... the safer they feel... the more unsafe they feel. The characteristics we have as compassionate and patient people work against us... and if we are not careful... lead us to putting them first and losing ourselves. Something about us... be that our own emotional wounding or whatever... may be the thing that makes us stay. The other aspect... is that the more "extraordinary" they find us... with legitimate evidence (good career, attractive, confident, skilled, athletic, popular, you name it), the worse it will be. The same type of stuff that creates Swifties. We are their Taylor Swift.. and they oscillate between wanting to bow at our feet... and wanting to extinguish us... and the more we are compassionate... the worse it can get.

Apparently, the only antidote to getting them to move on is to either allow them to find a new FP... that they like more... or get them to fall out of FP with us. To get them to fall out of FP with us, we have to do something that makes them see us differently. They may actually want to do this already... with a lot of the splitting. It would be easier for all parties if they hated us... their emotions could cool and they could go back to some dark neutrality or continue searching for something they may never find. We may have to disgust them... we may have to completely change their opinion of us... but that doesn't necessarily mean we will not experience their wrath for years to come... it could backfire and they could still objectify us while also wanting to punish us.

As dark as this sounds... and as pessimistic... it actually helped me see this more logically as a FP. My partner never had a FP who was a romantic partner... and if you ask him, I was the only FP he had. He either cannot remember, or he didn't have one. I am the first. He kept everyone else at arms-length his whole life. He met me... a young, attractive, smart, funny, compassionate, affectionate college professor. It was all over the first night we met... and he was obsessed. He said "I love you" on the first date, claimed me as his GF, and the next morning he left, came back to kiss me, left, came back to kiss me, and left again. He also brought me gifts for the first 5 dates. Big bags of gifts. He was so overwhelmed. Contacted me more than he had ever contacted anyone... texting all day... started fantasizing and future-faking... he was done for. So much of this makes sense now. I mean, the more I learned about BPD, it made sense... but knowing how I am a FP and the extremes he is feeling... dang. The best thing for both of us is to never see each other again. Being kind and compassionate is not going to help (unless he's in a better mental/emotional place with therapy... and I am no longer an FP). Essentially, the rollercoaster stops when you are not their FP... however that occurs... they set up a trap or create a situation where they are now disgusted by you... and their view of you is modified... or therapy... where their view of you is modified... or they move on to a "better" FP.

I also realized that I have been a FP before... to some of my students. In fact, some diagnosed with BPD. As a teacher or professor, they became completely obsessed... and I met their needs. I am a walking "teddy bear person" and I am at a MUCH higher risk of being the object of affection for a person with BPD... which does NOT need to be romantic at all. With those relationships, however, I have been able to create boundaries, and I have healthy relationships with them (now). I didn't live with them... I wasn't in a romantic relationship with them... so it was easier for them to see how their relational expectations may be unrealistic. For a significant other, however, there's a lot more grey area when it comes to what's expected for a partner... it's a lot harder to do the boundaries thing.

How does it give me peace of mind? I dunno... but knowing that all I can do is either walk away, do something to make him disgusted by me (make up a lie about some sexual experience and have my friend "leak" the information?), or wait for him to find a "better" FP, or wait for him to heal in therapy... all the while trying to be no-contact/boundaries... helps me understand that this relationship was doomed from the start.

I also have a little more compassion for myself. All of the compassion I displayed... all of my BEST personality traits that make me a good friend, family member, and partner... doused the flames in gasoline.

This should at least help some people realize that the "If I just..." thoughts they had in their head regarding compassion and support for their BPD partner... would likely only make their hell even worse.
Logged
Gemini66

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Single
Posts: 4


« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2024, 10:35:30 AM »

This was such great information! I am a very compassionate and patient person and it makes sense that I make him feel safe. There is a lot of information out there that says the non BPD person must be co-dependent to have ended up in a relationship as the FP. I struggle with that idea. For me, I have stayed because my ex boyfriend did not have a diagnosis and we are long distance. It took me over a year before I began to suspect he might fall on the BPD spectrum. I was so confused by his episodes and because of the distance it wasn't obvious it was a pattern. Add to that, he would go months without an episode and I would question if I made too much of previous episodes. Leaving isn't easy. I care deeply for him and hate that I'm just one more person walking out of his life. But I also know I can't stay for my own mental health.
Logged
jaded7
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: unclear
Posts: 581


« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2024, 11:03:47 AM »

Hey...

It's very interesting that you bring up the favorite person dynamic since I have gone down a bit of a rabbit hole with it the last few days, and honestly, understanding it better gave me a lot of peace.

This article is amazing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9806505/



HealthTeacher....this is really insightful and helpful. I was a college professor too until I switched careers, and I am the type of person you describe.
My therapist called me really kind, thoughtful, super high EQ. And I wasn't pretending with her, that's just who I am. With everybody. Everybody says
that about me. A friend from college that I haven't seen in years called last year to tell me what a big heart I have. Out of the blue.

I did have students who would really glob onto me, but it was really, really easy for me t set boundaries with them. It's my job, I'm a professional, I know
why they're acting this way since I'm an authority figure on the campus, etc. Easy. Did it a lot.

With my ex, no boundaries. And confusion, confusion, confusion.

Thanks for sharing all of this. I'll reread it a couple times. And thank you for sharing the article.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!