Saw him today and put me right back to square one

[Emelie Emelie]

I had something of his that I needed to return. I've been procrastinating.  (He returned my stuff long ago.)  Yesterday I decided to get it over with.  Texted.  Said I'd drop it off over the noon hour.  Just wanted to make sure he'd be at work.  (Where he'd most likely be but I wanted to be sure.)  Well he was there.  "Forgot" that I was stopping by.  I haven't seen him in four months.  I was undone by it.  He was nice enough.  Gave me a big hug during which I started to cry and couldn't stop.  Now I'm just humiliated.  Or more humiliated if that's possible.  Hate this.

[fromheeltoheal]

Well, at least you did something you needed to do; celebrate that.  Really, celebrate that.

And the rest is good feedback on the progress of your detachment.  Don't let feelings of humiliation matter; you are taking care of you now, and it is what it is; ever notice that people who really care about you feel badly for you when you feel humiliated?  Anyway, time to check in with you, discover what you learned, discover what was working and what wasn't, decide what to continue to do and what to stop doing, decide which way is forward.  What's next?

[maternal]

This is a fear of mine. 

Crying is awesome release.  Don't be humiliated by it.  Own it, own your feelings.  Own your growth.

[corraline]

Hi Emelie

I agree with the others here too.  It's more than okay to cry.  Your feelings are respected and welcome here.  I hope you can give yourself this too.  Your wounds that aren't quite healed yet have been re opened.    Please take very good care of you right now.   

[myself]

If it's two steps forward and one step back, you've already taken many more than two, haven't you? So if you feel you took a few steps back, it's nowhere near square one. It's not fair of him to have been there when he probably knew you wished he wouldn't be, but in his disordered way he wanted to connect. Was your letting him know you were coming a way for you to also reach for connection? Maybe what you're feeling is seeing up close that it isn't possible. That he's there, but not really there for you? I agree with the others. You are who you are. When someone does something hurtful, it hurts. Deep breaths. Let it go. Don't let this weigh you down. Don't take it out on yourself or think you did something wrong. You have a 

[Mutt]

Pat yourself on the back that you texted and returned his stuff. That's brave Emelie Emelie. 4 months is a long time and sometimes we all get overwhelmed unexpectedly with our emotions. I know I do from time to time when I've worked through all of these emotions. It's difficult stuff. It takes guts to text and go to his workplace and he invalidated you by forgetting. Was there an emotional attachment to the item? A semblance of closure with him that you put off doing?

[Emelie Emelie]

I dropped it off at his house.  He was supposed to be at work.  No, Myself, I wasn't looking for connection.  That's why I told him I would drop it over the noon hour.  Leave it in his garage.  I knew it would be too terribly painful to see him.  I'm upset that I started to cry in front of him.  He's moved on and I'm the pitiful sobbing ex-girlfriend.  That's what is humiliating. 

[Mutt]

I dropped it off at his house.  He was supposed to be at work.  No, Myself, I wasn't looking for connection.  That's why I told him I would drop it over the noon hour.  Leave it in his garage.  I knew it would be too terribly painful to see him.  I'm upset that I started to cry in front of him.  He's moved on and I'm the pitiful sobbing ex-girlfriend.  That's what is humiliating. 

I apologize I had the details wrong. I recall the words my ex used when she broke up with me - we were married really and it hurt deeply that I couldn't get a reasonable answer.

"Mutt I'm done. It' time for me to move on". Months later I realized she didn't move on. The jig was up with her and I. I outgrew her limited capacities of a relationship. She is limited to her own means and she copes differently. Her cycle was done with me and it was time for her to replay the same limited pattern with someone else. Coping is grieving the r/s having the courage to do so. Working through the pain and hurt. It's something your ex can't do Emelie Emelie. Your moving on differently.

[seeking balance]

I dropped it off at his house.  He was supposed to be at work.  No, Myself, I wasn't looking for connection.  That's why I told him I would drop it over the noon hour.  Leave it in his garage.  I knew it would be too terribly painful to see him.  I'm upset that I started to cry in front of him.  He's moved on and I'm the pitiful sobbing ex-girlfriend.  That's what is humiliating. 

oh hon, crying when we are letting go of something we loved is real, vulnerable and not in any way a humiliation.  It means you care, you loved - please be kind to yourself.

You are officially done - this is huge and of course it is sad 

you have nothing to feel humiliation or shame about in crying - be kind to yourself.

Peace,

SB

[Emelie Emelie]

Thank you.  I guess I'm way past hurt pride with him. 

[Hopeless777]

I'm proud of you!

[Emelie Emelie]

We've had some text conversation since.  "Every" time he sees me it's a drama filled event.  (This is the first time I've seen him since the break up.)  It would be nice to see me sometime without the BS.  Have I ever once considered his perspective? 

I apologized for all my "drama and bull$hit".  Said I all but begged him to share his perspective with me because I had no idea what happened.  Said that no longer mattered to me.  I was doing very well at moving on (white lie) and he would never hear from me again.  That part was true.  I am never going to put myself in a position to be further hurt by him.

He's angry that I cried.  That I was sad.  That makes him feel like a jerk and he can't handle it.  I am therefore "bad" and apparently a drama queen.  Neglects to recognize that I asked that he not be there as to avoid drama.  I am beyond hurt and angry but more resolved than ever to put this nightmare behind me.  I cannot have him in my life in any capacity.

[fromheeltoheal]

more resolved than ever to put this nightmare behind me.

 

Good for you!  Can you say this was an upside of the 'interaction'?  What beliefs, decisions, or perceptions have changed since this event got added to your detachment?

My ex contacted me about 8 months after I left her, and by then I'd detached some and learned about the disorder, and her bullsht was totally transparent by then and disgusted me; it actually helped with the detachment.  Any of that for you?

[Emelie Emelie]

Great question.  The fact that he was there.  That he supposedly "forgot" i was coming.  I don't know what his expectation was but it certainly wasn't seeing me still in pain.  That annoyed him and he berated me for it.  I know he can't deal with any shame or guilt but it helped me to see what a jerk he is.  Reminded me that's it's ALWAYS about him, ALL the time.  That my feelings are inconvenient.  That they don't matter.  That he doesn't care about them.  Never did.  Never will.  I knew that, but experiencing it again was a good reminder.  The realization that he still blames me for our relationship not working.  That I am still painted black.  That my job is to make him feel good and if I don't I'm "bad".  I had an opportunity to tell him his reasons (which he wouldn't discuss with me at the time) didn't matter anymore.  That I was letting go of all of this.  (Stretching the truth a bit there but that's okay.)  That he would never hear from me again allowed me to take some power back.  To not feel like such a "victim" of his choices.  That he was so uncaring about how I felt.  I don't need that.  Realized that after a month of no contact any contact with him is still dangerous.  Toxic.  Has the ability to hurt me.  It also made me realize I have to let go of his opinion of me.  That's super hard.  And it's going to take a lot of work.  But I need to do it.  It's his disordered opinion of me and I have to remember that.  Let go of what he tells people about me.  Especially his new GF's.  They'll get it eventually.  So yes, there was an upside.  Thank you.

[fromheeltoheal]

Good distinctions; you're on it Emelie!  

[LettingGo14]

It also made me realize I have to let go of his opinion of me.  

EE -- you have done such hard work, and you deserve a lot of credit.   Here's an alternative opinion of you:  You are stronger and wiser than you give yourself credit for.   Long ago, my sister gave me a mantra to repeat:  "I am Enough."   I pass it on to you.  Look in the mirror -- a hundred times a day if needed, and say, "I am Enough."

Your friend,

LG14

[KeepOnGoing]

  It also made me realize I have to let go of his opinion of me.  That's super hard.  And it's going to take a lot of work.  But I need to do it.  It's his disordered opinion of me and I have to remember that.  Let go of what he tells people about me.

I get that. I think for me, the hook early on was hearing how so many others had "wronged" her in so many ways, or how "exhausting" others were for her. I wasn't going to be one of them. My role was to be different. Silly me. The one thing I feared the most -becoming one of the carcasses - came true, and from everything I've learned, it was just a matter of time.

I get that you regret breaking down in front of him. I imagine you feel as if he saw how he's getting to you. Letting your guard down so to speak. Don't want him to have the satisfaction, as it were. Feels like you gave your power away.

You didn't. You're human, caring, loving... .and you loved hard. So sad the disorder doesn't allow them to reciprocate. It really is a terrible disorder. They want so desperately to connect, but the disorder won't allow it.

I get that we want to show as much lack of feeling to save face, so to speak. I imagine it's like being tortured by your captor, and trying desperately not to scream in agony or show any emotion, otherwise, they would know they are accomplishing their goal of hurting us.

I'm not sure BPDs operate this way? But I thinking is a normal reaction when we are hurt to want to just give them the high hard FU right back at them. Usually that doesn't feel any better either.

You did well because you were your true authentic self. Never feel ashamed about that. Ever.

[Emelie Emelie]

Thank you Keep on Going - That's a lovely thought.

[zenwexler]

Pride? Humiliation? Just words. I know what you mean though. I felt like I embarrassed myself. That I wasn't man enough for her. It's all bull. And you crying giving stuff back is a NORMAL human reaction. Never apologize or feel guilty for having feelings. Borderline cause so much damage to us that the way we feel and become is is normal. It's no different from being physically abused. You wouldn't apologize or feel humiliated for battle wounds. So don't for your reaction. No contact really is the only way.  As much as it sucks.

[Emelie Emelie]

You're right Zen.  I told him I never wanted to see him or speak to him again.  I've had some moments of panic about that.  Cutting all contact with him is really, really hard.  But I have to.  I have to stop the pain.  I have to put him in the past, pick up the pieces and move on.  Every time I interact with him it hurts. 

[KeepOnGoing]

You're right Zen.  I told him I never wanted to see him or speak to him again.  I've had some moments of panic about that.  Cutting all contact with him is really, really hard.  But I have to.  I have to stop the pain.  I have to put him in the past, pick up the pieces and move on.  Every time I interact with him it hurts. 

I hear you. I'm having a hard day today myself. I'm feeling like I shouldn't have said you are not safe with me, but that was the truth, so I feel like that was the thing that made my friend cut and run. Part of me wants to pick up the phone and say can we talk about it. I can't believe I'm struggling with this. No contact for more than a month and it is just killing me because there's no closure.

[Emelie Emelie]

Hey KOG - No closure is hard.  It seems many of us struggle with that.  I guess I feel like I got some closure by saying what I needed to say (some of it) and telling him I wanted no further contact.  He ended the relationship so telling him I want no further contact feels sort of like "you can't fire me I quit" but it still helped. 

[Blimblam]

Crying is a thing of beauty.  Think of it as an art form.  With practice shedding the shame and humiliation.  To really bellow from the depths of your soul.  To really truly cry shame free and let it out is in my mind a religious experience. 

[Emelie Emelie]

Thank you Blimblam.  I agree with you about crying privately.  It is healing.  But crying about him, in front of him, which just made him angry with me; well I wish I had more self control.  I guess in retrospect it was all for the best.  I realized once again that it's all about his feelings.  My showing pain made him angry and he was a condescending jerk.  As much as it hurts I know I have to stay far, far away from him.  And I closed the door. 

[myself]

I realized once again that it's all about his feelings.  

When you were with him, in the past to you now, it was all about him.

You've also realized that this is really about your feelings. From now on.

By closing the door, you're protecting them, believing them, freeing them.

[fromheeltoheal]

Thank you Blimblam.  I agree with you about crying privately.  It is healing.  But crying about him, in front of him, which just made him angry with me; well I wish I had more self control.  I guess in retrospect it was all for the best.  I realized once again that it's all about his feelings.  My showing pain made him angry and he was a condescending jerk.  As much as it hurts I know I have to stay far, far away from him.  And I closed the door.  

And that's more confirmation, in a way.  Anger is always a secondary emotion, usually a response to hurt, disrespect, whatever.  But in the case of a borderline, mine certainly, when confronted with extreme emotion, it becomes apparent that your emotions are a thing.  What?  No way.  In the world of a borderline their emotions are all that matter, of course the reason for that is their emotions are extreme and they don't have the ability to regulate them on their own (their problem, and so what), so when our emotions show up in a profound way it's a nuisance initially, and then a burden, and then the shame shows up, since they forgot about our emotions, again.  Screw that, we deserve better.

Think about it: how would a healthy person respond to you crying?  All of us deserve an upgrade... .

[Blimblam]

I am still scared to cry alone.  I sometimes fantasize about having the courage to cry in front of my ex, my abuser.  For her to have to face and witness how much pain I am in from her abuse.  To cry in front of her and leave for good.

It takes courage to express those feelings in front if them after the way we have been conditioned.  To express them free of shame and humiliation in full force is the ultimate form of "revenge"/liberation in my mind.

[Narellan]

Oh Em, I would do the same. I'm sad for you and know how you feel. I'm prepared for anything from him except kindness. I can cope with any spiteful angry and annoying stuff but if my ex hugged me I'd still fall to pieces and be back to square one.

The nc is really imperative isn't it? Big hugs to you 

[toomanytears]

You're right Zen.  I told him I never wanted to see him or speak to him again.  I've had some moments of panic about that.  Cutting all contact with him is really, really hard.  But I have to.  I have to stop the pain.  I have to put him in the past, pick up the pieces and move on.  Every time I interact with him it hurts. 

Hi EE.  I can understand exactly how you feel.

I saw my stbx (over 30 years married) last week for the first time since before Christmas. It was a horrible shock. He works 40 miles away in another city and here he was in the coffee bar next to my office on the university campus. I went over to speak to him but kept my distance, sitting opposite with a coffee table between us. If he'd touched me I would have been lost. We had an 'interaction' in which I spoke quietly and he raged not so quietly (though not loud enough to cause a scene). Eventually he left - it felt like I'd seen off the wolf in sheep's clothing, which was a very good feeling. Afterwards I broke down in torrents which caused consternation  in the coffee bar. I'm glad he didn't see my cry because every time I've seen him since he left, I have, which just made him angry. Anyhow, later that day, still shaken, I sent him an email (OK I know I shouldn't have) which just said 'you broke my heart'. His email response was lengthy and hostile, saying he would be in touch with his lawyer about my harassment of him. I don't know why I expected anything else.

Why was he there in the first place? Turns out he was attending a conference at the university where I work. It still does not explain why he chose to sit in a very public place (more a corridor than a coffee bar) to work on his keynote speech. I think, like your ex, he was trying to make a connection with me. But given how emotionally dysfunctional he is, couldn't see how inappropriate and cruel it was.

[enlighten me]

Why was he there in the first place? Turns out he was attending a conference at the university where I work. It still does not explain why he chose to sit in a very public place (more a corridor than a coffee bar) to work on his keynote speech. I think, like your ex, he was trying to make a connection with me. But given how emotionally dysfunctional he is, couldn't see how inappropriate and cruel it was.

For some people any connection is good even if it is negative. He obviously has a lot of conflict and the fact that he saw you probably triggered feelings of guilt/ shame. I have to have a lot of contact with both my exs as we have children together. My exgf always starts an argument. This usually turns into tears then she will always say "that's the past lets not bring it up again" then we can get on with what we need to discuss sensibly. I tried to remain calm but I cant help myself from rising to the bait. The difference being that when we were together I would end up taking the blame and backing down where as now I will not. I know this is seen as the wrong way to do things but it works for me as it demonstrates that I am no longer her puppet that will dance to her tune.