Blood boiling

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

2 hour mediation session to discuss final pieces of parenting plan today with divorce coach and uBPDxw.

xw spent 1 hour and 45 minutes complaining about my lack of boundaries, respect, using threatening and demanding language, inability to communicate and my basic lack of fairness and acting like a reasonable human being. 95% of the dysregulation was spurred by my request that she advise if she had any income the past month, and, per our agreement, provide 50% of net to me (as I am providing 50% of my paycheck to her) - this was our move out agreement until we have a division of property and child support agreement, everything 50/50. You know how well that works for pwBPD.

After complaining about my e-mail being abusive, threatening and disrespectful, she at one point cried out, "I know what I could do to you! I could take the house and kids! My friends are all telling me that I should do that! But I don't want to do that. I am reasonable! But I could just take you to court instead!" And I am threatening, disrespectful, unreasonable and abusive. Okey dokey.  Oh, and I can't communicate either because I sent an e-mail that was BIFF.

The divorce coach had to, at various times, commiserate but explain that our relationship is transitioning to a business relationship now, explain that it is not abusive to ask her to disclose her earnings to me since I have committed to doing so to her, explain how right of first refusal works and why I was not intentionally messing up her plans for the kids while she is taking time away (her plans to be to let her equally crazy, dingbat friend to watch the boys at our house - oh and by the way, dingbat is staying with BPDxw for a month which will likely turn into several - a woman that I absolutely do not trust to even look after a dead earthworm), state that my hotly contested e-mail statement was businesslike only to have BPDxw yell, "That is not businesslike! I don't know what it is, but it is extremely threatening and upsetting to me!" At one point, even the mediator rolled her eyes. When xw left the room to pee, the mediator acknowledged how difficult it must be to get so much blame ... .all the time, every session. She commended me on not reacting ... .oh, that's been a skill I have honed over the last 20 years.

In the end, time spent on petulant, out of control BPDxw dysregulation: 105 minutes; time spent on the children and parenting plan: 10 minutes. $145/hour. I know emotions get heightened for normal people in a divorce, so this is to be expected, but good mother of God! How much is enough?

Oh, and BPDxw says to the mediator at the end, "All these emotions are coming up because I am on a cleanse."   

For the record, here's the e-mail statement:

[takingandsending]

2 hour mediation session to discuss final pieces of parenting plan today with divorce coach and uBPDxw.

xw spent 1 hour and 45 minutes complaining about my lack of boundaries, respect, using threatening and demanding language, inability to communicate and my basic lack of fairness and acting like a reasonable human being. 95% of the dysregulation was spurred by my request that she advise if she had any income the past month, and, per our agreement, provide 50% of net to me (as I am providing 50% of my paycheck to her) - this was our move out agreement until we have a division of property and child support agreement, everything 50/50. You know how well that works for pwBPD.

After complaining about my e-mail being abusive, threatening and disrespectful, she at one point cried out, "I know what I could do to you! I could take the house and kids! My friends are all telling me that I should do that! But I don't want to do that. I am reasonable! But I could just take you to court instead!" And I am threatening, disrespectful, unreasonable and abusive. Okey dokey.  Oh, and I can't communicate either because I sent an e-mail that was BIFF.

The divorce coach had to, at various times, commiserate but explain that our relationship is transitioning to a business relationship now, explain that it is not abusive to ask her to disclose her earnings to me since I have committed to doing so to her, explain how right of first refusal works and why I was not intentionally messing up her plans for the kids while she is taking time away (her plans to be to let her equally crazy, dingbat friend to watch the boys at our house - oh and by the way, dingbat is staying with BPDxw for a month which will likely turn into several - a woman that I absolutely do not trust to even look after a dead earthworm), state that my hotly contested e-mail statement was businesslike only to have BPDxw yell, "That is not businesslike! I don't know what it is, but it is extremely threatening and upsetting to me!" At one point, even the mediator rolled her eyes. When xw left the room to pee, the mediator acknowledged how difficult it must be to get so much blame ... .all the time, every session. She commended me on not reacting ... .oh, that's been a skill I have honed over the last 20 years.

In the end, time spent on petulant, out of control BPDxw dysregulation: 105 minutes; time spent on the children and parenting plan: 10 minutes. $145/hour. I know emotions get heightened for normal people in a divorce, so this is to be expected, but good mother of God! How much is enough?

Oh, and BPDxw says to the mediator at the end, "All these emotions are coming up because I am on a cleanse."   

For the record, here's the e-mail statement:

[david]

I like the dead earthworm comment. I might use that sometime myself.
The mediator sees it for what it is and that is a positive.
They used to say on this site that it is a marathon and not a sprint. Stay the course. It sounds like things are beginning to end and ex is having a major extinction burst. My ex went ballistic on me in our only mediation attempt. We were scheduled for court the next day and she wanted to "resolve" things without going to court. After about three hours I left. The next day in court ex proposed exactly what I proposed the day before. This time it was her idea. I simply agreed and we were out of court in 15 minutes.

[flourdust]

Was there an option to do mediation in separate rooms? You should certainly ask for that next time, if there's a next time. Reduce the amount of time spent on venting, or at least make the mediator responsible for managing it.

I'm surprised that this wasn't offered as an option. In my first mediation session, with a private mediator, we asked for separate rooms. The second session was court-ordered, and the mediator saw the problem within 15 minutes and separated us.

[takingandsending]

Hi flourdust. No option for separate rooms, although I provided the e-mail to the mediator and advised that I was not going to listen to any further attacks. We are in a collaborative divorce, but as we know, no such thing as collaboration for pwBPD.

I had to rush out before finishing my original post. In the e-mail, I stated to xw:
":)id you make any money while I was away? If so, I would expect a check for half of that income (minus any taxes) per our agreement discussed in mediation. For the future, perhaps you could just send a note every two weeks (maybe on my payday) letting me know whether or not you have any income."
[There was an itemized list of things to discuss and the tenor was friendly and firm, not aggressive - this was one of the items. And for the record, we agreed to pooled incomes split 50/50 until child support and maintenance are established so that we could live in separate households (her repeated request)]. The mediator read it and was saying, "it sounds business-like" when my wife erupted in tears and protests. "A human being wouldn't talk to another human being like this. I am doing soo much for the boys. If he listened, he would know that I held an art show. I told the boys during FaceTime several times [no, I actually don't listen in on your conversations, as agreed], but he doesn't give a f-ing sh-t. It's only give me half of the money you made. That's all he cares about." Truly delusional.

I sent her the e-mail after an earlier, nicer attempt to ask the same question had received no response. Turns out, my xw was freaking out because she sold some paintings and did make income but had already spent it. So, it all got turned on me. My fault, unfair, threatening, badgering, entitled, etc.

I really don't need her money at this point (because her income amounts to about $7000 per year), but I want to hold her to our agreements and maintain clear boundaries, or she will just take more and more. She already hits me up for half cost of everything she can, including dog food. I can see where this is heading.

[insideout77]

Something seems odd.

Do you have a good lawyer familiar with BPD? Collaborative divorce does not work, mediation doesn't work. They will will never agree until they have their backs against the wall. Your paying $145 an hour and should have the options you seek and if not , dump them and go elsewhere. Your wife is threatening to take it all in court. Don't wait, run to court and do the same: it's going there anyway.

[formflier]

What got figured out in the parenting plan?

FF

[takingandsending]

We meet on Thursday to discuss with mediator. I had to postpone last week's meeting.

Yes, it is odd to try to use a collaborative divorce approach with a pwBPD. But, I am attempting it, trying to keep the kids' interests foremost, which is part of the collaborative approach. So far, my L, her L, and mediator have conferred and are aware that xw has issues. Still, it is a slow process cutting through the BS and getting to agreements.

I have a plan for Thursday and am writing notes/script to stick to when the talk moves to topics other than parent plan. I am generally pretty non-reactive, and don't get baited. But I am struggling with keeping discussions on topic. I have been out of house for 2 months and kids are doing very well. I am going to stick to that script to propose adding additional overnight and advise that after S5 has completed a year of grade school, we shift to a 50/50 schedule, either alternating 2/3/2 or 7 on/7 off.

[livednlearned]

BPDxw says to the mediator at the end, "All these emotions are coming up because I am on a cleanse."

Do you want to workshop the notes/script here with your peanut gallery? 

[takingandsending]

Hi LNL. Yes I do want help with the script. We have not seen the mediator for 3 weeks, so she will have a bunch of stored up complaints against me to start the session. The mediator, despite my objections to my L, starts with a check in. That's usually where it hits the skids and goes off track. So my plan is to answer first.

Me: Things have been going very well. S11's T mentioned that he is the most relaxed and easy since she has been seeing him. This reflects how the kids are thriving being out of the conflict that we had. I know how hard this process is, but I really appreciate xw keeping the boys' well being front and center. I think we are both doing a terrific job.

Getting the last details of this initial parent plan finalized will be a weight off both our shoulders and should make the rest of the process go more smoothly. I really enjoy taking care of S11 and S5, and it looks like having more free time has really helped xw's career, which is great. I am going to recommend a small change to the current schedule, based on something my L mentioned and that we encountered the last couple of weeks. I think, based on how well the kids are doing in both households, and based on making one less transition, that it makes sense for me to overnight the boys every other Sunday. I will drive them into school that Monday morning, which will make one less time xw has to run back and forth to the school and leave her more free time. L also said that it helps kids for completing homework assignments through the weekend if they are with one parent. I really want to even out the free time we each get to spend. I think this little step will give you a whole weekend to yourself v. cutting it short, and it will give me a whole weekend to help S11 with homework and take on at least a little bit more responsibility around the school transportation."

If she resists that, I will offer the alternative that I overnight the boys on Thursday Friday Saturday every week (currently Friday Saturday every week). I will stick to the notion that I can help S11 with his homework better using this arrangement.

She is likely to throw out every obstacle possible such as: kids are just getting used to this, why change so soon?, S11 homework is due on Thursdays, so neither evening will help him complete his assignments on time, I feel like you are criticizing me and not trusting that I help S11 with his homework (which she mostly doesn't), I don't agree with you getting more time just because you think it's a good idea - you are always planning things without including me. There will be more, but those are the very likely suspects.

Thoughts? Ideas? I tried a disarming SET type approach. I could also be more assertive, stating that the kids are doing really well and our initial discussions were to aim for an 8 overnight / 6 overnight split. I agreed to one less overnight to increase xw's weekend time with the boys, but I believe that they would be better served with the 8 / 6 split as we first discussed. L says it is less disruptive and better for completing homework and preparing for the school week to not break apart the weekend. I think we should follow that for at least one weekend. If she pushes to have one weekend to herself, I will respond with suggestion to move to 2/3/2 alternating weeks which is a 50/50 plan.

[ForeverDad]

Just a thought, we have to stay away from politics here, but I see similarities between your case and the current vociferous political blamefest.  End Comparison.  The point I'm making is that when you try to be reasonable and she is oppositional with just about everything, the only way collaborative divorce would work is if you gave in to all her demands.  She simply will refuse to meet you in the middle or do a quid pro quo.

Can you be prepared to tell the mediator once her blamefest resumes, "Ms Mediator, collarative simply isn't working.  My time and effort to unwind the marriage and preserve my parenting is being wasted here.  Sorry but that's how I see it, we're not getting anywhere except waste time and money while she's doing whatever she wants to do with our home and our children.  At least I tried and it's just not working here.  It's time to redirect my efforts to the regular divorce process."

Of course, beforehand consult your lawyer for suggestions, advice and other strategies.  I believe many here are concluding your efforts for a collaborative divorce, despite good faith and noble hopes, will fail.  Maybe ponder the ways a regular divorce would be any worse for the kids?  Are you thinking you would get more time with the kids this way than what a judge would set in a temp order?

[formflier]

I think you should say something along the lines of what FD has suggested.  Don't give in. 

However, I think it should be in the form of "this isn't working, I will try one more time.  Please give us each suggestions in writing for our best chance of success.

We would love it if he blasted her... .told her to shape up... .etc etc.  But we know that's not going to happen.

Still... .I think you need to go "one step past reasonable" and try to get it on the record, as much as possible.

Obviously, all this advice assumes that your L is ok with all of this, so that YOU don't get put in a worse position.

Yes it will cost you money, unfortunately that's part of the process.

FF

[takingandsending]

I will ask my L what notes and information will go forward if I pull out of this process. We are 85% there on the PP, and my L tells me that the PP is the hardest piece to work out in our divorce. That's why I have been trying to stay the course.

But I will put my foot down if it becomes another blame fest. I was thinking this morning that I am so used to inequity with xw that I really am not a good judge of what is equitable to me, and things that I think are close to reasonable are seen as miles from reasonable by most people viewing from the sidelines.

I have been fair, a good dad, involved in their lives, problem solving in the divorce, supportive of what is best for the boys. No reason I shouldn't be at 50/50 for the kids. I have been letting her emotions run the show again, trying to nibble at what I want. What I've done has helped the kids already, but I have been justifying not doing more because of the difficulty.

[formflier]

 
What can you "gain" from her in order to "back away" from 50/50.  It would obviously have to be beneficial for you and the kids.

Such as... .twice a month counseling attended by her or her and boys... .or some other thing like that.  With a succinct, built in "penalty" for no shows.

So, if she skips counseling you get an extra weekend... .or... .something.  No wiggle room.

If you guys are at 85%... .keep going.  The blamefest will be over soon... the parenting plan matters... .blame doesn't.


FF

[livednlearned]

About the griping: Eddy says:

*You don’t have to listen forever. HCPs don’t seem to grieve and heal losses. They keep repeating the past over and over. They don’t get things off their chest, which causes them to complain over and over. Give them an EAR statement, and then ask them for their proposal.

And:

*Sometimes, the best response is no response.

You may need to manage the lawyers running the session since they seem unable or unwilling to curb the griping. Is there an opportunity behind the scenes to add some structure? For example, tell the Ls to give her a limited amount of time, at which point she can introduce her proposal to solve the problem. If she doesn't have a proposal, then you suggest yours.

It seems like the facilitators need some guidance here  

About the note. I can't remember if your wife is someone you would consider (in Bill Eddy's terms) generally cooperative, or someone who is pretty uncooperative, not dangerous.

If she is generally cooperative, then Eddy recommends using an EAR statement (empathy, attention, respect) which sounds like what you have shared above in your note. If she is pretty uncooperative, not dangerous, then he recommends using a BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm) statement and suggests not having a F2F encounter.

I am guessing that your wife is somewhere between these two. It sounds like she can be generally cooperative, but the collaborative divorce approach is giving her a forum to complain and giving her an opportunity to be pretty uncooperative (costing a lot of money).

Since you are adding a new item (e.g. an extra overnight with the boys), then it's probably safe to say that she will be in a pretty uncooperative frame of mind this next round.

Do you feel comfortable introducing the idea of an overnight as something your L recommended was best for the kids? Even add some praise? "My L made the point that your art is gaining recognition -- you are good enough to be making money, and this is likely to continue given past indications. L suggested that you may be like a lot of parents who appreciate having time to focus on your interests while the kids are with the other parent. What do you think about adding Sunday night so the kids have one less transition, and this gives you that whole day to yourself? L said that this is something a lot of parents prefer so we would be doing something that is popular not only with other families but is recommended in the research, too."

I don't know how exactly this differs in tone from your original note -- just trying to bring in the L and research and other parents as authorities, so that you are not perceived to be dictating what you want. This will only get her back up and make her feel that you are calling the shots, no matter how well you validate and whatnot.

[takingandsending]

Thanks LNL. Yes, xw is between cooperative and uncooperative not dangerous. She is definitely seeing sessions as forum to be heard which plays to her sense of self importance. I will throw in the research and other parent bit. I alternate between EAR and BIFF. Mostly BIFF because she finds my empathy insincere. Perceptive of her.

The mediator does allow time for both parties to speak, but I tend to speak toward topic and she focuses on complaints. The "cleanse" session was out of control - neither I or mediator could reign her in as she was in a medium sized dysregulation. I've experienced worse but sucks to pay for a 2 hour tantrum.

I am inclined to try EAR and then respond with my firm solutions if she resists the extra night. I will use FF type statement if she is unwilling to budge, willing to try here mediator but what do you suggest? I need to be met halfway.

[insideout77]

your not going to be met halfway. It is simply wishful thinking. as FD says, what is telling you that going to court is going to be worse for the kids?  i personally did the same game you did and at the very end she simply would not sign and kept demanding more and more.     why go through all this paid and waste of time and money?

[formflier]

   why go through all this paid and waste of time and money?

Just because a "process" doesn't "work" or get you the desired outcome, doesn't mean it's not worth it.

Right now they are "almost there" on the PP... .  That is huge.

Even if there is no signature and they go to court... .there is now clear information about what is really of value to the pwBPD... .that is huge.  In other words, the 5% that was the holdup (assuming there is agreement on the other 95%) is what needs to be understood and focused on. 

My one caveat is to understand that some HCPs would not agree to the last 5% not because it is important, but just because they aren't going to agree... .on anything. 

I don't understand that personality... .but somehow ... .  hopefully you can apply wisdom to figure out whether or not the holdup is important... .or just something to be obstructionist about.

FF

[takingandsending]

insideout77,

I can respond pretty simply. What tells me that court is going to be worse for kids? Nothing. Just as nothing tells me collaborative positively will not work. Here's what I have seen: I have experienced three separation/divorce cases where friends of my children were affected ... .pretty significantly.

Case 1: mom and daughter hid out in our house while BPD waif dad pounded on our door demanding his daughter back. He had his daughter living in a barn with no running water, heat or plumbing and  lied and said it was a camping trip in court. Despite him having no job, no regular house, GAL gave him 50% custody with mom. 7 years later she obtained full custody. Daughter went from being outgoing, happy kid to withdrawn and reserved.
Case 2: mom was accused of child abuse and mental illness by NPD dad and children were removed from house. She did not see them for 2 months. Then, supervised visits of 2 hours for 1.5 months. Kids were a complete wreck at school, cried when you smiled and said hi to them. She has reconciled with NPD dad to get children back.
Case 3: NPD dad sabotaged mom and daughter's life through campaign of calling her mentally unfit mother, CPS complaints, buying daughter all sorts of gifts with inheritance money but refusing to pay any child support. Have seen daughter many times in tears, frightened, confused.

My xw is able to cooperate to a degree. She is not so far around the bend that I believe I can convince courts for full custody. My T who saw both of us in  couples counseling has confirmed this when I asked. My xw is relatively functional. I am consistent in my boundary of keeping the kids' best interest first. I know that she can't really do this, but she can try which is better than the cases I experienced above, where one parent made no effort but in fact took the opposite approach. Do I deal with more than I should have to? Absolutely, yes. Is it possible I could get the same result I am aiming for if I litigated in court? Yes. But it is equally possible that it would escalate in ways that would be harmful in the short term to my kids. If I can avoid that, I will. I know that kids are resilient and recover from trauma, but my goal is not to introduce significant trauma to them in this process. My wife wants money, she wants to have her ego stroked as being a terrific, sacrificing mom and world class gifted healer, and to have time to herself without the kids. Does she always want more and more? Absolutely. She is ill. I am willing to give on money and on time if it means I get time with the kids, can provide them with a stable home and semblance of consistent, caring emotional support and protect them from being moved or taken from that stable home.

My L does litigate in court as well as doing collaborative work. He reminds me that our case is not what he would call a High Conflict Divorce ... .namely because we are both trying not to do what our friends did. I will give my xw some credit - she really doesn't want to have the kids go through what we both saw with our friends' kids. He also told me what I need to protect my kids from being moved. I have to get this done.

[livednlearned]

That's a really good summary of your situation, t&s. 

It's hard to know how things will go with any certainty. It makes sense how you're proceeding given the relative cooperativeness of your ex, as exasperating as it is to pay good money to listen to the tantrums 

It will be a little hair-raising to introduce the extra night, probably worth strategizing with your L about how to introduce this.

Good luck today!

[ForeverDad]

I understand your concern about how the children are affected.  I too had that concern.  I had a very oppositional spouse.  It didn't start that way, she slowly went from being BFF to (by the end 15 years later) Rejecting.  I was nearly at the point of being shoved out of parenting when I ended it.  Court basically ignored the conflict at the start by gifting her standard mom-has-priority parenting schedule.  Eight years after separation I finished off getting custody and majority time.  Son went from 4 yo to 12 yo.  Much of his childhood was impacted.  Sadly, despite my efforts, it took a long time to get improvements, all while my ex remained confrontational and blaming.  Now he's a teenager, he says she still hates me, sometimes he says she scares him.  But he's nice to his mother and gripes with me.  (I count at least part of it that he feels free, too free, to let go on me while treading more carefully with her.)  But he also comes to my home when she's working, so it's rare that he doesn't spend all his days during her time with me.  Yes, I know he's been impacted.

I also agree your efforts to get a mediated parenting plan are almost there.  It's okay to try to make it a success.  Yet, don't sell yourself short, don't think that this approach is the only way.  Likely she feels that if she lambasts on you enough that you'll cower and acquiesce to her emotional demands.  Her perceptions.  Her insecurities that must be Denied.  And a host of other issues that the others have already mentioned.

Her:  I am Mother.  What I say goes.
You:  I am also a parent.  I have the facts.

We often mention that early in a divorce process the disordered spouse can be too entitled and blaming to agree to reasonable terms.  Typically it is later such as just before a major hearing or trial that the stbEx 'blinks'.  While we aren't inclined to play Brinkmanship, sometimes that's what we need to deal with.  Would a comment like this be helpful when she's refusing to be reasonable?  "Ms Mediator, we seem to have an impasse here.  I truly want the mediation to succeed but it doesn't seem possible here.  I may just have to call it failed, present all the facts in a court setting and let court decide for us, unless... ."  Just maybe she will prefer not going to court and decide to work it out with you.

So in mediation, set a focused tone, focus on progress.  Set a limit to her rantings.  She will deviate off onto her own perspectives, remind the mediator when it's time to get back on track.  When she gets into complaining about the past, get teh mediator to bring it back to current issues and a plan for going forward.

[takingandsending]

Really helpful, FD. This is the strategy I will employ today. I have sold my self short because it's what I do. I need this extra time and will get it, even if I have to escalate the negotiation.

[formflier]

  I have sold my self short because it's what I do. I need this extra time and will get it, even if I have to escalate the negotiation.

Yep... .this is why clarity for yourself in what you must have... .vice what is negotiable... is critical.

You have determined (and I agree) that extra time is important... .so go to the mat for it.  Sure... .you will do it smartly and play your cards the best you can.

It seems to me the only way you will give up the extra time is if a judge "takes" it... from you.  Do I have this right?

If this is where you are... .then build your strategy around that.  It's seems you have... this is me "reflecting back" what it seems like you have figured out.

Hang in there... .!

FF

[takingandsending]

Hey all.

I picked up an extra Thursday overnight. Gave up 4 hours on every other Sunday. So, I am at 6 nights, which per L, gives me leverage for preventing her from relocating the boys.

Parent plan is being written up by mediator for us to review, concur and send to lawyers for memorializing in writing with courts. It went well. I kept it on the positive, and mediator actually sensed it moving forward and stepped in to keep it going that way.

I also was able to keep xw from insisting on a skewed in her favor (which is "only fair" border crossing into my ROFR for make up days she was requesting. Probably best results I have had since these sessions started. 

Our schedule now looks like
Week 1  M: xw, Tu: xw, W: xw, Th: me, F: me, S: me, Su: xw (I drop of boys at 9 a.m. [previously had been 1 p.m.])
Week 2  M: xw, Tu: xw, W: xw, Th: me, F: me, S: me, Su: xw (I drop of boys at 4 p.m.)

I preferred having the Sunday overnight for continuity into the school week, but I got the 6 overnights.

[formflier]

  So, I am at 6 nights, which per L, gives me leverage for preventing her from relocating the boys.

  but I got the 6 overnights.

You achieved your goal... .nice work!   

Is there an estimate regarding how long to have it signed and done?

Is there any indication she realizes you can now put a wrench in relocation plans?

FF

[flourdust]

Nicely done!

[takingandsending]

So mediator sends draft to us, we review, if acceptable goes to both lawyers, we have a 5 way meeting with lawyers and mediators with the final version, if acceptable signed and sent to the court with petition for divorce. So, maybe another month to memorialize this with the court.

Then, it's on to child support, which is a calculator based on parent residential time. Some wrangling may occur over how much she makes - I have asked my L about imputing an amount since I think she will claim zero profit on her business. Still, this is small fry stuff compared to the PP. Then, it will be maintenance, and I imagine we will have difficulty reaching agreement here on amount and length of time, but I am relying on my L here to push us to reasonable norm. Lastly, division of property, which ain't much - biggest hurdle will be selling the house. Sounds as if, right now, xw is planning on moving to a new place - I think she wants the money from the house equity.

[insideout77]

talking:

I hope it gets done and I'm glad your getting what you desire.  I just caution you to tread carefully. Its not over until its over.

I had it all written up as well and when Exw sat with her lawyer alone at the last minute, he convinced her that she could get much better in court and she is silly for giving up so much in this agreement. It all went south from there.

Ultimately a year and $75k later the agreement looked pretty much the same. but they don't know how do get out of their own way and there is sadly little you can do to help them.

I urge you not to blink at the last minute if they throw in 1 final demand and you agree under pressure so the deal doesn't fall apart. keep holding strong.

hugs

[ForeverDad]

Although the rules may vary from state to state, a general rule of thumb is that it's not written in stone until it is made an order of the court.  It might be binding when signed but don't count on it unless your lawyer says so.

Yes, beware of last minute recants and new demands.  Seems to be a chapter in the BPD 101 handbook.

[takingandsending]

I agree with you both, inside out  and forever dad. At the least with collaborative, her L isn't likely to say that, as he'd just be removing himself from a job. But still, not done till it's written signed and sent to court.

[livednlearned]

What a relief 

Any thoughts on why things went well?